I worked for a airfreight operation in Janesville, Wisconsin as an A&P in the late 1960s. We had D18s and DC 3/ C 47s. I had a ppl, no instrument or multiengine ratings but got to copilot a lot of night runs and flew most of it because the pilot had flown all day and would be sleeping most of the run. I then left there to go to Army helicopter flight school ,then Vienam. I had seen and e perienced many crazy things working the
My dad flew for Wymans (Pontiac) . I heard some stories as well. Morey didn't want to pay extra for oil, so my dad took me along to scamper out on the wings for those thirsty engines. It was night, heavy rain, at Columbus Ohio. Water leaked through the windshield and knocked out the radios. He stayed in the pattern until they came back on. I was told the next day I could no longer accompany him. I was 16 and worked the flight line. ✈️
Good times Freighter. My personal best airplane was a tricycle B18 . Flew excess UPS cargo to smaller cities after big guy landed and unloaded. Hearing your stories brought back some of my greatest memories. The Cessna 310 fuel starvation made me chuckle out loud. I had the same thing happen to me on my first commercial B18 solo trip out of MSY. The right engine fuel pump was inoperative and needed to be started with the left side pump. As you know, the fuel tank selector was beneath the right seat. After selecting the left side on the nearly impossible to turn selector, the right engine immediately rose to life as expected. Soon after, I was airborne flying the greatest machine ever built and with a likely over gross cargo. With a heavy load, often had to utilize that tail pole back there to keep the nose gear on the tarmac until the engines were going. At about 400 AGL and over a swamp, I was alerted to a sputtering left motor. "Oh boy, here we go", I thought, but I was really on my game and knew just how to handle this. Before I could get that engine secured, the right side also started sputtering. I thought this is going to be my first and last flight in this newly renovated airplane. Sure hope I survive. Within a second or two, my mind realized what was happening. I forgot to return that selector valve back to the center position. Normally, this valve was quite difficult to rotate, but this time, it went like butter as soon as my shaky fingers grabbed it. Both engines immediately sprang to life and all was good. This episode remained with me and only me for quite some time before ever mentioning it to anyone, which was over 30 years ago. Thankfully, the remainder of my twin beech time was uneventful, but each flight was my favorite. Your stories were a delight to hear. I periodically find myself reminiscing with others as well. Somehow, they never get old. Take care pal.
One other thing for the youngsters comming up..make sure you a/c legal to fly! Make load schedule for yourself and keep u a bathroom scale...make sure all your charts are current; no zero copys,and wt/ balance for every leg complete! Current A/C manual in the air craft...got a DC swat team out to our company,and all the pilots got 90 day suspensions but me! Never volunteer, like talking to the cops; don't! Unless answering permeate questions.fed not your friends! If an employer gives you grief find another job!
Swapping hanger stories, that is one of the things I miss after retiring (45 years of flying civilian, military, and commercial), only fellow pilots can truly appreciate these stories because we all pretty much shared the same experiences.
Greg, In April 85 out of Grand Ledge Al gave me my private check ride. I will never forget him especially when he put me into a spin entry with a hood then having me recover. Before losing my medical with about 650-700 VFR hours that maneuver probably saved me and a buddy some where between Port Clinton and Grosse Ile flying an Archer 2 when the horizon merged with the water and for a bit it got away from me in a steep turn, all I remember at that moment was what Al thought me. I ran into Al one other time on the ramp in Lansing. What a great mentor you had!! Rich
As an A/P mechanic , that mostly worked on recips (A1 Skyraiders, AC-47, O2, O1, KC-97,C-131) the Beech C-45/ 18 was one of my favourite aircrafts. With the appropriate maintanance, they are outstanding as cargo or passenger haulers. We had a few workhorses at the Isla Grande Airport in San Juan, Puerto Rico, that flew forever.
While on furlough from Braniff Airway I took a job with Buckeye Airways based out of Clevland. They provided mail service with C-45, Beech 18's. During a check ride with the check pilot, we had a main mount collapse my first 18 ride. During my 3rd month flying out of Detroit I had the right engine develop an oil leak and fire so had to divert to Erie. We at times would haul auto parts for GM and Ford during one late night flight I noticed a piece of speed tape above my head being a curious pilot I just couldn't leave this alone this 18 had to be flown all the time, no auto pilot she would pull to the right even with trim. While removing the tape I could see very small print and while trying to read the print the bird started a very genital roll taking me off course. I corrected this after being called by ATC. I made the course correction and got back to business, but finally read the printing which said "Fly the airplane stupid and leave the tape alone".
I was also flying USN, C54,P2, and the 118, 130 for Alaska. Lots of stories. Once made the non stop from loringAFB to Lajes Azores this flight in the 118 had a point of no return. Flight time 12 hours
Amazingly, I have had the same experiences at mostly the same airports in my 12 years as a freight dog in the MU-2. I don't know how I survived it. But, as Greg said, it made me a hell of a pilot. Wyman killed a lot of pilots over the years. I don't know how he stayed in business.
Just wonderful..Rekindles so many memories of years as a freight dog out of BTV in DC 3's, battling sub zero temps, sliding off ice covered wings etc. etc. all the while trying to stay alive as forwarders, dispatchers and mechanics tested our skills and endurance. The experiences forged skills and habits that served us well in later years. In many ways they were the best of times. An old friend and mentor retired in 2002 out of DC 6's...I referred to him as 'museum pilot'. A shame that most of the round engine machines are gone from service and new guys will never get the unique experience afforded us old timers. Cheers!
In the early 60’s my dad flew a Beech 18 nightly from Fresno to LA carrying mail- he said he made $15 for each round trip. He also often slept in the fuselage, which he referred to as, “sleeping in the lodge.” After the Twin Beech he flew DC-3’s, and then CL-44’s, and ultimately retired as a DC-8 captain from Flying Tigers Airline. All flying freight.
Got my start as a freight dog flying checks at night DAL to ABQ, LBB, OKC, AMA, ABQ and a few dozen other destinations, a lot of times single engine. I would hire a freight dog over anyone else.
@@avoidingtrees6692 I moved to Houston in 1980. I worked for Air Exchange, Astrowing and Kitty Hawk and instructed at Dallas Flight Center in the late 70's. I would meet up with a FedEx Falcon 20 in SHV in the late 70's and was offered a job by the chief pilot that was flying that night getting competence time. All I had to do was get a Falcon 20 type rating. I was still paying off student loans and eating Top Ramen. Things worked out.
Flew a Beech E18S in 1981 for a while..Then 2 different commuter airlines. Then Evergreen International. Then hired at a Major. 38 years at Major ( s) 17 years as 747 Captain...total of 42 years flying for a living. Never put a scratch on an airplane, or an injury on a passenger or Flight Attendant. This story hits a lot of nerves.
Thanks for your great stories. Brings back many memories. I used to fly for Apollo Airlines out of Detroit City flying cancelled checks for the Federal Reserve Bank. Was based out of BOS and flew every other night to BDL EWR DET and turn around at 0100 and fly back. We had a turbine 18 on the route due to flight time limitations (10 hours) and had a tailwheel piston 18 once every 40 hours to meet the maintenance schedule of the turbine. As you said your either learned fast or you didn't survive. I remember many cold nights when the Janitrol heater quit. Had some events similar to yours from which I learned how to survive. Only had to do the craziness for 18 months before I got a job flying corporate. Thanks again for your stories.
As a aviation fan, I remember in the 70's hearing on the radio about crashes of small freight airplanes, thinking not sure if I would want to make decisions like that even though I learned to drive tractor on the farm at 12 years old.
It was really great to see Greg on your channel. I have run into him a few times over the years. I love that old Beach 18. But I loved the DC-3 more. While Greg was hauling freight up North in the snow I was mostly flying out of Miami and Houston going South into Central and South America.
I can't imagine flyin for such a schiesty dangerous operation! I've been fortunate throughout my career... From instructing through to airlines I've only ever had one place push me... I protested, they threatened demotion, and I was driving back to Oklahoma by the weekend with my apartment loaded in my car.
The job that makes you or breaks you. And why the U.S. produced so many highly skilled pilots. Dude's a legend. Got a few hundred hours in the Beech in Hawaii. Ours was probably the last Beech to fly the U.S. mail in the United States - PHKO to PHNL Great times.....
Amazing and scary experiences!!!! Sounds more dangerous and crazy than military flying!!! Great interview! Cant imagine working for freight companies that took chances with the Pilots lives by not maintaining the planes properly and freight companies trying to save money by under stating the actual weight of their freight!!! Crazy times for sure! Cool story and career that sounds like you were lucky and skilled enough to survive!
My experience as a freight dog is easily summed up. I don't miss the job, I miss the lack of supervision. Being forced to rely on your own resources has a confidence building effect that you don't get in many other jobs. The bad part of that is that you don't have any backup a lot of the time.
What? My life history as a freight dawg?... many memorys; faa loves bathroom scales!! Always had one in cargo space,even Cherokee 6...B 18..never load past first doorjamb....even had to do my own maintenance on my DH4, but never liked others flying my plane one of my fav vidios...
Wymann was a crook. He had his mechanics falsifying maintenance records and totally skipping scheduled inspections. I think some of the people there actually spent jail or prison time when the feds went through their records and really dug into what had really not been done. Our work hours were just the same when I flew DC-3's hauling auto freight from the southeast to Oshawa, Detroit, Flint and many more places. Three engine shutdowns flying as a co-pilot and three more flying as PIC. I worked for two companies in DC-3's. I even flew "That's All Brother".At that time none of us even had any idea of its history.
A great disortation on flying the Beech. Remember the Lancaster at Oshawa? It was being restored by one gallant old man I had the pleasure of talking to a few times. I wonder what ever happened to it.
I lost a friend that flew cargo in a 1957 model D18S - got caught in ice and turbulence over Alabama one night in 1966. The 18 is tough, but there are some extreme situations even it can't overcome.(ASN accident, N411Z)
@@johnkerr4645my mother was the bookkeeper for Gastonia Aviation at the time - I had access to information not generally available, and Bill's last words to Birmingham Center-while trying to get on top and out of the ice-were to the effect that he thought he was inverted. Not a place to be with but 50 hours in the airplane.........November 2,1966.
Ahh the ol F-4 pilots. I remember my best friend’s dad was an F-4 pilot and he was given the chance to fly a single seat P-51. The owner knew him well and knew his career and figured he could handle it just fine. Well my friend’s dad straps himself into that P-51 and goes out to take off and he used the entire length of the runway just wallowing in ground effect. He sucks the gear up and climbs slowly away. He stays in the pattern, comes back around and lands it. Just barely gets it off the runway and the prop stops. Everyone runs over and he’s shaking like a leaf. He climbs out and yells at the mustang owner than he tried to kill him by letting him fly an airplane that has “no power at all!” He was so used to that jet power he could barely fly anything else. He died (not in an airplane) swearing against the P-51 saying they were all junk, nothing but death traps.
@@Milkmans_Son One crew didn't even pull the throttles back, even though they were in a dive. But the main thing was that the trim wheels on either side of the center console were spinning and they didn't even know to turn off the two stab trim switches, something that's been a "commit to memory" procedure since the very first 737's were built. Sure, there were warning lights and alarms going off, but you've got to fly the airplane.
Sure brings back memories
God bless the freight dogs!
I worked for a airfreight operation in Janesville, Wisconsin as an A&P in the late 1960s. We had D18s and DC 3/ C 47s. I had a ppl, no instrument or multiengine ratings but got to copilot a lot of night runs and flew most of it because the pilot had flown all day and would be sleeping most of the run. I then left there to go to Army helicopter flight school ,then Vienam. I had seen and e perienced many crazy things working the
I could listen to this guys stories all day long, amazing!
My dad flew for Wymans (Pontiac) . I heard some stories as well. Morey didn't want to pay extra for oil, so my dad took me along to scamper out on the wings for those thirsty engines. It was night, heavy rain, at Columbus Ohio. Water leaked through the windshield and knocked out the radios. He stayed in the pattern until they came back on. I was told the next day I could no longer accompany him. I was 16 and worked the flight line. ✈️
Good times Freighter. My personal best airplane was a tricycle B18 . Flew excess UPS cargo to smaller cities after big guy landed and unloaded. Hearing your stories brought back some of my greatest memories. The Cessna 310 fuel starvation made me chuckle out loud. I had the same thing happen to me on my first commercial B18 solo trip out of MSY. The right engine fuel pump was inoperative and needed to be started with the left side pump. As you know, the fuel tank selector was beneath the right seat. After selecting the left side on the nearly impossible to turn selector, the right engine immediately rose to life as expected. Soon after, I was airborne flying the greatest machine ever built and with a likely over gross cargo. With a heavy load, often had to utilize that tail pole back there to keep the nose gear on the tarmac until the engines were going. At about 400 AGL and over a swamp, I was alerted to a sputtering left motor. "Oh boy, here we go", I thought, but I was really on my game and knew just how to handle this. Before I could get that engine secured, the right side also started sputtering. I thought this is going to be my first and last flight in this newly renovated airplane. Sure hope I survive. Within a second or two, my mind realized what was happening. I forgot to return that selector valve back to the center position. Normally, this valve was quite difficult to rotate, but this time, it went like butter as soon as my shaky fingers grabbed it. Both engines immediately sprang to life and all was good. This episode remained with me and only me for quite some time before ever mentioning it to anyone, which was over 30 years ago. Thankfully, the remainder of my twin beech time was uneventful, but each flight was my favorite. Your stories were a delight to hear. I periodically find myself reminiscing with others as well. Somehow, they never get old. Take care pal.
One other thing for the youngsters comming up..make sure you a/c legal to fly! Make load schedule for yourself and keep u a bathroom scale...make sure all your charts are current; no zero copys,and wt/ balance for every leg complete! Current A/C manual in the air craft...got a DC swat team out to our company,and all the pilots got 90 day suspensions but me! Never volunteer, like talking to the cops; don't! Unless answering permeate questions.fed not your friends! If an employer gives you grief find another job!
Swapping hanger stories, that is one of the things I miss after retiring (45 years of flying civilian, military, and commercial), only fellow pilots can truly appreciate these stories because we all pretty much shared the same experiences.
Thanks for being frank. It helps less experienced pilots.
Greg, In April 85 out of Grand Ledge Al gave me my private check ride. I will never forget him especially when he put me into a spin entry with a hood then having me recover. Before losing my medical with about 650-700 VFR hours that maneuver probably saved me and a buddy some where between Port Clinton and Grosse Ile flying an Archer 2 when the horizon merged with the water and for a bit it got away from me in a steep turn, all I remember at that moment was what Al thought me. I ran into Al one other time on the ramp in Lansing. What a great mentor you had!! Rich
As an A/P mechanic , that mostly worked on recips (A1 Skyraiders, AC-47, O2, O1, KC-97,C-131) the Beech C-45/ 18 was one of my favourite aircrafts. With the appropriate maintanance, they are outstanding as cargo or passenger haulers. We had a few workhorses at the Isla Grande Airport in San Juan, Puerto Rico, that flew forever.
Freight dog here. B-18, DC-3, DC-4. Canada.
While on furlough from Braniff Airway I took a job with Buckeye Airways based out of Clevland. They provided mail service with C-45, Beech 18's. During a check ride with the check pilot, we had a main mount collapse my first 18 ride. During my 3rd month flying out of Detroit I had the right engine develop an oil leak and fire so had to divert to Erie.
We at times would haul auto parts for GM and Ford during one late night flight I noticed a piece of speed tape above my head being a curious pilot I just couldn't leave this alone this 18 had to be flown all the time, no auto pilot she would pull to the right even with trim. While removing the tape I could see very small print and while trying to read the print the bird started a very genital roll taking me off course. I corrected this after being called by ATC. I made the course correction and got back to business, but finally read the printing which said "Fly the airplane stupid and leave the tape alone".
Sir, you are anointed.
Haha
I was also flying USN, C54,P2, and the 118, 130 for Alaska.
Lots of stories. Once made the non stop from loringAFB to Lajes Azores this flight in the 118 had a point of no return. Flight time 12 hours
Amazingly, I have had the same experiences at mostly the same airports in my 12 years as a freight dog in the MU-2. I don't know how I survived it. But, as Greg said, it made me a hell of a pilot. Wyman killed a lot of pilots over the years. I don't know how he stayed in business.
Just wonderful..Rekindles so many memories of years as a freight dog out of BTV in DC 3's, battling sub zero temps, sliding off ice covered wings etc. etc. all the while trying to stay alive as forwarders, dispatchers and mechanics tested our skills and endurance. The experiences forged skills and habits that served us well in later years. In many ways they were the best of times. An old friend and mentor retired in 2002 out of DC 6's...I referred to him as 'museum pilot'. A shame that most of the round engine machines are gone from service and new guys will never get the unique experience afforded us old timers. Cheers!
What sorts of cargoes in and out of BTV?
In the early 60’s my dad flew a Beech 18 nightly from Fresno to LA carrying mail- he said he made $15 for each round trip. He also often slept in the fuselage, which he referred to as, “sleeping in the lodge.” After the Twin Beech he flew DC-3’s, and then CL-44’s, and ultimately retired as a DC-8 captain from Flying Tigers Airline. All flying freight.
Omg love these stories!
Got my start as a freight dog flying checks at night DAL to ABQ, LBB, OKC, AMA, ABQ and a few dozen other destinations, a lot of times single engine. I would hire a freight dog over anyone else.
Hi bill,
I was a freight dog out of DAL for a company called gta air , in the 90’s , when were you there ?
Cheers from France america 🤚
@@avoidingtrees6692 I moved to Houston in 1980. I worked for Air Exchange, Astrowing and Kitty Hawk and instructed at Dallas Flight Center in the late 70's. I would meet up with a FedEx Falcon 20 in SHV in the late 70's and was offered a job by the chief pilot that was flying that night getting competence time. All I had to do was get a Falcon 20 type rating. I was still paying off student loans and eating Top Ramen. Things worked out.
Flew a Beech E18S in 1981 for a while..Then 2 different commuter airlines. Then Evergreen International. Then hired at a Major. 38 years at Major ( s) 17 years as 747 Captain...total of 42 years flying for a living. Never put a scratch on an airplane, or an injury on a passenger or Flight Attendant. This story hits a lot of nerves.
Thanks for your great stories. Brings back many memories. I used to fly for Apollo Airlines out of Detroit City flying cancelled checks for the Federal Reserve Bank. Was based out of BOS and flew every other night to BDL EWR DET and turn around at 0100 and fly back. We had a turbine 18 on the route due to flight time limitations (10 hours) and had a tailwheel piston 18 once every 40 hours to meet the maintenance schedule of the turbine. As you said your either learned fast or you didn't survive. I remember many cold nights when the Janitrol heater quit. Had some events similar to yours from which I learned how to survive. Only had to do the craziness for 18 months before I got a job flying corporate. Thanks again for your stories.
As a aviation fan, I remember in the 70's hearing on the radio about crashes of small freight airplanes, thinking not sure if I would want to make decisions like that even though I learned to drive tractor on the farm at 12 years old.
Totally Amazing! Reminds me of 40 Year Career Truck Driver Stories! Glad you survived your Aircraft Frieght Logistics Service!!!
It was really great to see Greg on your channel. I have run into him a few times over the years. I love that old Beach 18. But I loved the DC-3 more. While Greg was hauling freight up North in the snow I was mostly flying out of Miami and Houston going South into Central and South America.
yes
I can't imagine flyin for such a schiesty dangerous operation! I've been fortunate throughout my career... From instructing through to airlines I've only ever had one place push me... I protested, they threatened demotion, and I was driving back to Oklahoma by the weekend with my apartment loaded in my car.
Thrilled to hear mention of Al Ayotte! I learned to fly at Al's school at Grand Ledge in 1986. He was great!
Awsome interview.
The job that makes you or breaks you. And why the U.S. produced so many highly skilled pilots. Dude's a legend.
Got a few hundred hours in the Beech in Hawaii. Ours was probably the last Beech to fly the U.S. mail in the United States - PHKO to PHNL Great times.....
Amazing and scary experiences!!!! Sounds more dangerous and crazy than military flying!!! Great interview!
Cant imagine working for freight companies that took chances with the Pilots lives by not maintaining the planes properly and freight companies trying to save money by under stating the actual weight of their freight!!! Crazy times for sure! Cool story and career that sounds like you were lucky and skilled enough to survive!
not sure why woman is laughing, this man is lucky to be alive after all these plane mishaps
My experience as a freight dog is easily summed up. I don't miss the job, I miss the lack of supervision. Being forced to rely on your own resources has a confidence building effect that you don't get in many other jobs. The bad part of that is that you don't have any backup a lot of the time.
What a great guy, would love to buy him that beer!
What? My life history as a freight dawg?... many memorys; faa loves bathroom scales!! Always had one in cargo space,even Cherokee 6...B 18..never load past first doorjamb....even had to do my own maintenance on my DH4, but never liked others flying my plane one of my fav vidios...
Oh,my copilot was a n A/P
Awesome stories!
Great stories!
This was very interesting and informative to watch. Thanks for sharing
Incredible and thanks!!
Wymann was a crook. He had his mechanics falsifying maintenance records and totally skipping scheduled inspections. I think some of the people there actually spent jail or prison time when the feds went through their records and really dug into what had really not been done.
Our work hours were just the same when I flew DC-3's hauling auto freight from the southeast to Oshawa, Detroit, Flint and many more places. Three engine shutdowns flying as a co-pilot and three more flying as PIC. I worked for two companies in DC-3's. I even flew "That's All Brother".At that time none of us even had any idea of its history.
Like union flights in SAC....
Great video with worm would derful stoiries
❤❤
A great disortation on flying the Beech. Remember the Lancaster at Oshawa? It was being restored by one gallant old man I had the pleasure of talking to a few times. I wonder what ever happened to it.
Ps the Beech 18 is an awesome aircraft.
I lost a friend that flew cargo in a 1957 model D18S - got caught in ice and turbulence over Alabama one night in 1966. The 18 is tough, but there are some extreme situations even it can't overcome.(ASN accident, N411Z)
Climbing through 8000 for 10000, 2 POB, 2 Fatal.
@@johnkerr4645my mother was the bookkeeper for Gastonia Aviation at the time - I had access to information not generally available, and Bill's last words to Birmingham Center-while trying to get on top and out of the ice-were to the effect that he thought he was inverted. Not a place to be with but 50 hours in the airplane.........November 2,1966.
The crash you mentioned with "both probably asleep" -maybe CO poisoning ??
A friend of mine lost his life flying freight.
Ahh the ol F-4 pilots. I remember my best friend’s dad was an F-4 pilot and he was given the chance to fly a single seat P-51. The owner knew him well and knew his career and figured he could handle it just fine.
Well my friend’s dad straps himself into that P-51 and goes out to take off and he used the entire length of the runway just wallowing in ground effect. He sucks the gear up and climbs slowly away. He stays in the pattern, comes back around and lands it. Just barely gets it off the runway and the prop stops. Everyone runs over and he’s shaking like a leaf. He climbs out and yells at the mustang owner than he tried to kill him by letting him fly an airplane that has “no power at all!”
He was so used to that jet power he could barely fly anything else. He died (not in an airplane) swearing against the P-51 saying they were all junk, nothing but death traps.
Haha. But not funny for the poor guy.
A good yarn but, given the P51 has an impressive 3600’ min rate of climb, probably fiction I’m afraid. Unless there was something wrong with it…
Great stuff. I think two 737 Max’s wouldn’t have crashed if they’d put the flap lever back where it was moments before..
I don't get why they didn't make that the procedure, official or otherwise. Overspeeding the flaps seems like not that bad of a result.
@@Milkmans_Son One crew didn't even pull the throttles back, even though they were in a dive. But the main thing was that the trim wheels on either side of the center console were spinning and they didn't even know to turn off the two stab trim switches, something that's been a "commit to memory" procedure since the very first 737's were built. Sure, there were warning lights and alarms going off, but you've got to fly the airplane.
That’s scary