Are you Mormon? Mormons are the only ones I know who demand a respectful or neutral tone when discussing their own past crimes 😂 because God forbid such a heinous mass murder be spoken of with any appropriate human emotion, right? Lol
I knew about the Massacre from my childhood as my family in Oklahoma migrated from Arkansas. I was told about the Mormons and the murders they inflicted. There was never any doubt among them that the murders were ordered by Brigham Young.
@@ericlemonde5830 What utter drivel. You are either ignorant or a liar. There is no doubt that the Mormons murdered the people....the only doubt is whether Brigham Young actually ordered it.
funny the missionaries who came to my house had no idea what I was talking about when I mentioned this, interesting their church fails to teach this tid bit of their history, wonder why?
It's things like this that are why I'm leaving the church I was born into. At first I was unsure and scared, but once I dipped my toe into a little research I am confident in finally leaving. Hiding this from members (and especially missionaries) is unacceptable.
Who profited from one of the most wealthiest wagon trains to travel west..Mormon leaders and what were they building thats right the foundation to the Salt Lake City temple so you could say the foundation of the temple was built with some of the blood money from the Baker-Fancher party massacre even if all they did was pay there 10% tithing and pocket the rest
They stripped not only the Fancher party of their belongings and their children, but they went back and stripped their clothes off corpses, took the booty to John D. Lee, and he and sold the bloody clothing at the Bishop's Storehouse. A couple years later one of John D. Lee's new teen aged brides was allowed by Lee to go to the Bishop's Storehouse and pick out a set of clothing to wear to the open house celebration of Lee's new mansion. She noticed some of the used women's clothing and shoes had spots on them. The shoes she chose had these spots too. She took a fine green velvet dress and matching shoes home and tried wiping the spots off. She discovered the wash water made the spots hydrate back into blood. As if that was not bad enough; the teen-bride wore the fine, green, velvet dress, hat and shoes to the party. While there, a young child... a little girl about 9... cried out and pointed to the teenager and said, "That's my Momma's dress! Where's my Momma!? Where's my Momma!?" Immediately, John D. Lee appeared and slit that little girl's throat with his knife from ear to ear. Right in front of everyone! Ever wonder how truly sick the Mormon cult is? Well... Later, the relatives and ancestors of the Fancher party have had to sue the Mormon cult to have the names of the murdered dead removed from Mormon temple baptismal and membership rolls.
I owe me Skinner an apology. He did a fine job of this doc. I did so.e more research, and he was right on. Of course her has his views at the end as to what really happened, but most historians do. And there is nothing wrong with that. I deleted what I had said before, because I was wrong. Because I checked church history, and it went right along with what you said. It is a black stain on the church. There is more to it. But the act itself was inexcusable, and therefore what came before or after matters not. It was still inexcusable. And may God bless those 120 souls.
The LDS church still deny Brigham Young ordered the massacre... I guess there is no proof either way. But, Young ruled with an iron fist..and I find it unbelievable that anyone Mormons would do this without Young's agreement.
@@realdiamondshow there was an article written in 2007 for the church that indicated that Young did, in fact, order it. They made excuses of course...but they did show that BY and a few others did wrong.
When I was investigating the church, this event was discussed openly by the local Bishop. He put the blame on the leadership of the church saying "It was the single black spot on the church" in the most remorseful tone. I applaud him looking back, as he did not try to make any excuse for the church's behavior.
THIS IS NOT EVEN THE TRUE HISTORY NOT FACT'S . THE REAL TRUTH IS THAT WHITE YELLOW CHICKEN LOOKING PEOPLE LIKE ROBERT LEE'S MOLESTED CONFEDERATE SOLDIERS AND MORAN'S CLAIMING TO BE CHRISTIANS AND MORMAS LYNCHED SHOT KILLED THE INNOCENT IMMIGRANTS AND ACCUSED BLAMED THE INNOCENT INDAIN PEOPLE AS ALWAYS ALWAYS WHITE MAN'S HISTORY OF EVIL MURDEROUS PREDATORS TRIGGER HAPPY LYNCHING CHOKING SHOOTING PERVERTED PEDOPHILES CHILD MOLESTERS WHITE MAN'S HISTORY OF CRIME'S , GREED FALSE ACCUSATIONS AND LIE'S AND PERVERTED PEDOPHILE CHILD MOLESTERS WHITE MAN'S HISTORY OF CRIME'S AND CHRISTIAN CULT'S DEEDS
Mr. Jerry Skinner, thank you again for another great American history lesson. You are keeping our past alive by telling the stories of our forefathers.
I absolutely love your videos. I am a documentarian as well. Been a longtime subscriber to your channel. Your documentaries about Windsor Ruins and Natchez City Cemetery inspired me to go last year. Nothing like it...thanks so much!
Fascinating, My family roots go back to the beginning of the church & I recall when I first heard about and confronted my dad over what he knew... he was haunted. My family is from Cedar City & surrounding area where this happened. I'm writing a fiction story based on survivors of both sides & am trying to be balanced over what was in the minds of the wagon train & shooters. It is easy for us to judge in hindsight but It has such a combination of events that seemed to combine at that moment that added to the trigger point. I have no idea if I'll publish or not, but I can't rest until I discover why my father and now I, need answers. Thank you for your honest insight.
Dale Stock Thank you Dale. Keep in mind, all through Bible history more evil has been don in the name of God than any other name. I hate to have to say it, but God has never worked in religions. When the religious leaders plotted to put Christ to death, that should teach us something. I am sure He is very angry with Religious Leaders and i would not wont to be one when He returns. Be merciful to the Mormons . What they did at Mountain Meadows is no worse than what other religions did to them. Remember, Just because God in not in religions, just means when the Devil comes in God moves out. Thank you so much for your comment and i hope your book gets published and you make a million. Jerry
Jerry Skinner Thank you, Jerry. I find, especially in google comments, etc., that what you say over God vs religion is very true. One aspect I keep running into is that a religious zealot type thinks they have all the answers and everyone else is wrong. They start speaking not for their belief but for God himself. Very dangerous. One aspect over MMM is that at first it embarrassed and shamed me but the more I've looked into I realize the mistake is judging by what is happening today and not the mindset of their time- my father said that. One of the main characters I'm writing about is not innocent and participated in the killings. I always wondered what that would do to a person in the long time. The church was big on keeping journals and a history, but I have been shocked over the lack of 1st hand accounts. If there were any who talked about it... it seems silence spoke louder.
My dad told me about a controversy he remembers over the banning of a book about the Mountain Meadows Massacre, which had been banned from the local libraries and schools. This occurred in the area where he had grown up, which was in NE Nevada, next to Utah, and it was during the 50s and early 60s. There were quite a few Mormon ranching families in NE Nevada, so they held quite a bit of sway and political power in local politics. The banning of any books that were critical of the Mormon church and it's history continued for many years in NE Nevada.
The Dunlaps were my family. My line came from a sister that stayed in Arkansas. Young ordered this massacre then denied it all. I'm not sure if the mormon church has even acknowledged it, but Utah has and archeology has been done so we now know, for sure, where the burials are.
The church did acknowledge the terrible event. You should come and see the beautiful Monument on the exact land that likely is where it happened. The Mormons have well honored your losses. I believe The Arkansas immigrants were taking highly bred horses to establish the racing industry, as the gold rush was in full swing in California. When Arkansas immigrants were killed, those horses continued to produce top racing blood in Utah. Without registration papers, my father was not able to participate in the State Fair. He would make bets AFTER the fair that our horses were faster than state winners. The Prodigy of the Mountain Meadow Massacre, helped my dad win a lot of bets
They acknowledged it but did not take responsibility. If you read about the memorial in Mormon press you'll find phrases like the were killed for "inexplicable reasons." Then Mormon president Hinkley basically said, don't blame us, how can we possibly know what happened. He spoke about visiting the site as a child and knowing that it was "hallowed." He conveniently omitted why he thought it was sacred ground. (Hint: because Mormons stopped the Gentiles)
@kadiemarie58 my multi time great grandmother was Martha Dunlap. She was too young to travel and stayed behind with her father. She married G.W. Mabry. They lived and are buried near Lowell, Arkansas in Benton County.
I just found your videos and find them very informative. This one I never heard about but am glad you did one so we can be informed. I have found all the videos I have seen as good work, good research and wonderful to see some of the places these things happened. Keep up the good work.
I grew up with a strongv dislike for Mormons and never really knew why and then a few years ago I was talking to my dad and he showed me our family tree and pointed out we're related to the Bakers that were murdered in the Mountain Meadow Massacre and I quickly peiced it all together
@@johnlee1352 No one knows bloodthirsty hatred like a devout Mormon. You would have been right there slaughtering unarmed women and children, because that's what you're made of. Evil comes out of your pores.
@@WordSmithForge1 A great, objective, rational and unbigoted response! (Also predictable.) Good Christian judgment. It's the same hatred that drove the Mormons from several states 180 years ago. I thought those despicable attitudes died with the 19th century...guess not. I guess I'll wipe the evil off and move on...wow
A noticeable thing about your very important uploads, Jerry, is that you do not show your face or your personal view. With all due respect to your undoubtedly handsome visage, this is very welcome. Well done in all your work.
Jerry, your videos are really great, I have been watching and finding out what really happened to people. Great research! Thanks for doing these fine videos!
neither have the vast majority of mormons today or even why their holy prophet was jailed in carthage prison , or that he killed his transgressors while they attacked them ,by a smuggled in pistol , or died trying to escape a far cry from becoming a martyr
I'm a family member of several killed, it's disgusting how the Mormon cult has used their power and money to cover this up. It was Americas first 9/11, and it should be taught as the domestic terrorism it is.
I never knew this story How sad and utterly a sad commentary on humankind, Nothing changes, words or deed, just the time. places & faces ,. Thank you, keep your stories coming!!!!
I first learned about the massacre in genealogy. Two ancestor cousins were murdered. They were young men that had signed up as trail hands, seeking adventure. Then I read Banner of Heaven (Krakauer) and got a bigger story. Scary.
And those military troops put up a crude cross as a memorial, and when Brigham Young visited the site, he ordered it torn down. In 1859, U. S. Army Brevet Major M.H. Carleton led the first official investigation into the MMM. Upon visiting the site, his soldiers built a crude memorial to the victims out of stones, with a wooden cross atop it, inscribed with the saying "Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord." In 1861, Brigham Young visited southern Utah, including the MMM site. The following statements were recorded of Young's reaction upon viewing the memorial: "We visited the Mt. Meadows Monument put up at the burial place of 120 persons killed by Indians in 1857. The pile of stone was about twelve feet high but beginning to tumble down. A wooden cross is placed on top with the following words, Vengeance is mine and I will repay saith the Lord. Pres. Young said it should be Vengeance is mine and I have taken a little." (Wilford Woodruff's journal, May 25, 1861.) "My grandfather, Dudley Leavitt, was present, and he told the incident repeatedly, so that it has been verified by three of his sons. One preserved it in these words, quoting his father: 'I was with the group of elders that went out with President Young to visit the spot in the spring of '61. The soldiers had put up a monument, and on top of that a wooden cross with words burned into it, Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord, I will repay. Brother Brigham read that to himself and studied it for a while and then he read it out loud, Vengeance is mine saith the Lord; I HAVE repaid. He didn't say another word. He didn't give an order. He just lifted his right arm to the square, and in five minutes there wasn't one stone left upon another. He didn't have to tell us what he wanted done. We understood.' " ("Mountain Meadows Massacre," Juanita Brooks, p. 183.) "Went past the monument that was erected in commemoration of the massacre that was committed at that place.....On one side of the cross is inscribed Mountain Meadow Massacre and over that in smaller letters is vengeance is mine & I will repay saith the Lord. On the other side.....some one has written below this in pencil. Remember Haun's Mill and Carthage Jail....." (Journal of Lorenzo Brown, as quoted in ibid, p. 183.) Brigham Young's attitude and remarks clearly indicate that he was not sorry that the MMM had occurred, and that the massacre was an appropriate act of "vengeance." On that same visit to southern Utah, Young spoke in a church meeting. Many Mormons in attendance had been among the murderers at Mountain Meadows four years prior, including Bishop John D. Lee, who recorded Young's comments in that church meeting: "Pres. Young said that the company that was used up at the Mountain Meadows were the Fathers, Mothers, Bros., sisters & connections of those that murdered the Prophets; they merited their fate, & the only thing that ever troubled him was the lives of the women & children, but that under the circumstances this could not be avoided." ---John D. Lee's diary entry of May 30th, 1861, as published in "A Mormon Chronicle: The Diaries of John D. Lee, 1848-1876", edited by Robert G. Cleland and Juanita Brooks.
Forgot to mention that the Missourians were poisoning the water supplies after they moved on to kill Mormon cattle and cattle man, but instead killed indian cattle and indian children. That was why the Indians attacked them. The letter by Brigham Young is perfectly dated to not attack them. This part is a lie
+Paul Gregersen The town leaders were actually in rebellion from Brigham Young and did not wait for his instructions and went ahead with the massacres.
Thank for this presentation. A few years ago, on a geology field trip, my class camped at Lee's Ferry (named after John Lee) on the Colorado River at the entrance of Marble Canyon. A devout Mormon in our group gave a presentation to the class on John Lee and told once again the lie about the Indians doing all the killing. I had read Mark Twain's account of the Massacre years earlier, so my memory wasn't precise, but I objected to that presentation and told everybody that it was the White Mormons, not the Indians who did the killing. In fact, the Native Americans, being more Christian than the Mormons, were horrified and would not kill women and children as they were ordered to by the Whites. It was only later that I learned about John Lee's testimony, given just before his execution, outlining Brigham Young's culpability. Brigham Young, for whom is named a university and who is still held in the highest esteem by members of that phony, made up, pagan, polytheistic "religion" founded by a liar and con man. At least they now officially take responsibility for the murders --- but still covering up for Brigham Young.
Mormon serial killers are fascinating. I can think of Gary Gilmore and Brigham Young, to name a few. Something about that ‘Blood atonement’ ritual that makes em so blood thirsty.
The Paiutes had the wagon train pinned down for a few days before the Mormons ever got involved. Read something for heaven's sake! The Paiutes were given the task of taking care of the women and children and did so with relish. The Iron County Militia did the rest. Stop the revision of actual history. Your attempt to clear the natives of responsibility is a typical dishonest liberal tactic to attack Mormons. Stop it. My grandfather never accused Young of anything but betraying him. Brigham knew nothing about the incident until my grandfather(Young's adopted son) rode to SLC about ten days later. He then did all he could to cover up the incident afterwards but he had no knowledge of it beforehand. There is no evidence of such knowledge. 160 year old lies are still lies...shame on you. I have no agreement or association with the LDS church's position on this matter...just telling the truth from our family's perspective.
@@johnlee1352 Yeah, my family had all sorts of "Family Legends" that I was told as a child that had a grain of truth in them, but when I visited the National Archives and did some research for myself, I found out the true source of the legends. When I presented the true facts to my surviving aunts, they got very angry with me and called me a liar just as you have done. I take nothing back.
@@johnlee1352 i dont quite see whats going on between you two ,BUT SURELY YOU CANT BELIEVE THIS ,silly ,in-house created reliigion is innocent in this atrocity! PLEASE tell me im reading it wrong....i know a mormon that lost his faith in the Joe Smith followers after hearing the murderous truth!...here in missouri where the supposed original Garden of MORMON eden is I have heard the murderous stories of 1833 ,where women and children were carried away to Far West missouri when men were out working ,never to be seen again to BUILD THIS awful discusting church.
@@carleyg1973 " Are there any legal documents, Brigham is even a real name?" Are you seriously this ignorant? You've never heard of Brigham Young University?
Very interesting video. I’m related to Francis Poteet who was a part of the wagon train for a good ways but split off on their own just a few days before the massacre. Weird to think others could be reading off my family’s name on a memorial sign and i wouldn’t be here if he would’ve stayed with everyone. Thank you for the video, keep it up.
The "smoking gun" is considered to be when B. Young came to Mountain Meadows about 2 years after the slaughter. A U.S. Army contingent came to Utah 18 months after the robbery/slaughter and buried as many body parts as they could find in a mass grave (rock cairn). The bodies had been eaten and strewn across the plain "2 miles east of the campsite (beyond today's hwy 18) and two miles west. The army carved a 12-foot tall cross, placed it on top of the cairn inscribed the words, "Vengence is mine sayeth the Lord." When Brigham showed up with his Danites and read the sign, he held up his fist and yelled, "Vengence is mine and I have HAD ME SOME!" Non-Mormon historians consider that his confession - the smoking gun. Young motioned to his Danites and they destroyed the cross and rock cairn.
Thank you for this, Mr. Skinner; John D Lee was my great-great grandfather - and despite his dishonored reputation among members of the LDS church - it is my personal belief that he was, in reality, a very honest, reputable, pious, hard working and God-fearing man who was cruelly betrayed by the Mormon Church, and made a public scapegoat for many, many others who weren't as brave and as honest as to admit their OWN GUILT and EQUAL or GREATER participation in this terrible tragedy....
My Grandfather Samuel Dennis White and his son John were on that raid with Lee and under his direction helped slaughter those people and blame it on the Indians. Samuel While delivered the sealed letter to Lee from Young giving the extermination order and instructing Lee to strip the party of their goods, kill the people, kidnap the children placing them with Mormons. At Young's behest, and with Lee acting as god's anointed giving the order, they stripped not only the Fancher party of their belongings and their children, but they went back and stripped their clothes off corpses, took the booty to John D. Lee, and he and sold the bloody clothing at the Bishop's Storehouse.
Adding insult to injury the names of the dead were proxy baptized into the Mormon cult. WTH makes Lee an innocent scapegoat, "god-fearing man" ? Because he would not break his oath of silence against implicating Young? He still carried out the orders and did the crimes.
A couple years later one of John D. Lee's new teen aged brides was allowed by Lee to go to the Bishop's Storehouse and pick out a set of clothing to wear to the open house celebration of Lee's new mansion. She noticed some of the used women's clothing and shoes had spots on them. The shoes she chose had these spots too. She took a fine green velvet dress and matching shoes home and tried wiping the spots off. She discovered the wash water made the spots hydrate back into blood. As if that was not bad enough; the teen-bride wore the fine, green, velvet dress, hat and shoes to the party. While there, a young child... a little girl about 9... cried out and pointed to the teenager and said, "That's my Momma's dress! Where's my Momma!? Where's my Momma!?" Immediately, John D. Lee appeared and slit that little girl's throat with his knife from ear to ear. Right in front of everyone! Ever wonder how truly sick the Mormon cult is? Well... Later, the relatives and ancestors of the Fancher party have had to sue the Mormon cult to have the names of the murdered dead removed from Mormon temple baptismal and membership rolls.
My great great grandfather as well. Scapegoat indeed. I've read the comments on this and viewed the video. I am appalled at the lack of any real in-depth knowledge and a video meant only as a cudgel with which to beat the Mormons. THE FACTS: It was a military operation of the Iron County Militia, a regularly constituted military division of the State of Deseret. The Mormons had left the US when they came west into unincorporated Mexican territory. They set up their own government, printed money and declared themselves independent of the federal government. With the end of the Mexican War in 1848, western lands were ceded to the US as part of that treaty. In effect, the US government followed the Mormons out to Utah. When the feds tried to impose federal authority in Utah, the State of Deseret didn't take too kindly to it. The officers that had been sent to "govern" Utah were sent packing back to Washington. The Mormons had had enough of the "constitutional" treatment afforded them in Missouri and Illinois that ended in the murder of Joseph Smith and his brother. They were in no mood to be governed by the same people who had driven and killed them. As a result of the wild tales of rebellion, President Buchanan dispatched fully 1/3 of the US military to Utah to "quash the Mormon rebellion" in 1857. Brigham Young declared martial law in the territory and the Mormons were preparing for a military assault on their community. This was the climate into which the Fancher wagon train rolled. The Mormons wouldn't trade with them because they were preparing for war. They were frustrated and threatened to go into San Bernardino and bring the troops up the southern flank of the Mormons while the army units attacked from the north. I'm no military genius but you can't have a two-front war. The wagon train was unfortunately in the middle of a conflict they couldn't control and lost their lives. As a military matter, it worked perfectly. None of those people made it to the military outpost at San Bernardino. Innocents die in war all the time. War is hell. Tragedy but understandable. The winners of war usually get to write the history and so they call this encounter a "massacre". If Washington had lost the Revolutionary War, he would have been hung as a traitor and his skirmishes would have been called "massacres"...see how it works? Study up and then comment.
Great research Jerry, I was born & raised Mormon but left the church. LDS church is currently hemorrhaging members because of this type of research. People have the right to know
LDS church is the only church that has a stable gain in membership. The Protestant religions have lost the most due to their sucking up to the PC crowd.
Nope!!!! LDS church is the only church that does not remove names if you leave the church. They told us it was for when people come to their senses & rejoin. I know this I was in leadership, it’s a way of cooking the books to keep the numbers growing up & never down. They claim 12 million people when they only have 3 to 4 that even acknowledged being Mormon or attend church. Hell!!! I’m still counted as being a member.
How can they throw anyone out? By the time they call a court of love the individual is already gone. I can tell you are a member trying like hell to defend the faith when your own faith is built on a house of cards, you do everything right, think positive thoughts treat your neighbors well just to find the leadership in SLC is corrupt to the core in every way, money sexually & greed, if want to defend that then have at it. No need to reply
Another fascinating piece. I don't know if the subject is well documented American history but here in Surrey, UK I've not heard of it before now. As usual, Jerry, you bring it all to life. Religion has been responsible for so much conflict, intolerance and brutality throughout the ages. Nothing has changed; we've learned nothing, as one faction attempts to inflict their own version of truth on another. Respect to you Jerry and your crew.
*Nothing has changed; we've learned nothing, as one faction attempts to inflict their own version of truth on another* You're in the UK? I'm telling you, like I tell all Brits, that y'all better be finding Jesus real fast, or you're gonna be praying to Allah, facing east, five times a day, whether you like it or not.
Utah is the only state I have ever been where I felr so unwelcomed. Never met so many people who were cold and down right lied about things. Those poor people who eere slaughtered. May GOD BLESS THEM.
John D Lee was a direct(traceable) ancestor of mine. Until 2 generations ago my family were ALL self righteous, Mormons. The theme of this story never changed; church leadership instigated this attack. Brigham Young was the name always used; he ordered it. Lee would’ve done anything for him EXCEPT DISOBEY HIM! Unfortunately... It was well known that church leadership DID KNOW & DEMANDED this mass murder. Is it a surprise this crime was blamed on a single person? Blame anyone but the church. They also agreed with disguising themselves as Natives & blaming a wicked white religious crime on the Indigenous People of their land. John D Lee was the ONLY person held accountable & The Mormon church flourished instead of facing charges of Treason by the US Government. Money & power can always obscure history, because they hold the pen that writes it. Look up the version the church tells on their website; it’ll make you vomit.
It was a military operation in a time of war. Look up the Utah War (1857-58), you self-righteous hack. Thanks for leaving the church so we didn't have to throw you out. Your ancestors weep for you.
It’s certain that the Mormon militia would never have acted without the approval of Brigham Young. He had absolute control over his closest followers. He even chose their wives for them, (borrowing a few besides). So ignore scenario of these grim murders comes without premeditation. The wagon train was even encouraged to go to Mountain Meadows because the basin was surrounded by low hills that made escape from Mormon tyranny and religious fanaticism impossible. These were violent acts; some children were killed (38) with their heads bashed against wagon wheels or throats cut. It’s the brutality of these murders that’s hard to fathom from peaceful Mormons, but once the deed was done their wives came out to help strip the clothing off the dead. Unbelievable hubris and cruelty. The bodies were not buried but left to the elements. And all the families belongings, gold and cattle ended up in Young’s hands.
As an LDS Member I always enjoy your videos. I enjoyed this one as well. I always listen carefully at the difference between "OPINION - THEORY - or DOCUMENTED FACT??? Thanks for this and all your videos.
Guaranteed, none of them made a move without Brigham's consent and orders ! A friend of mine in childhood grew up in that cult. Sad for the innocent indoctrinated children.
@@lindalds upon rereading Kritine b ,I see no reference to any one lately follwing Brigham Youngs orders!She was talikng about the murders!W aht have I missed?
I always enjoy your videos. I thank you for this one as well. I'm wondering about "documentation" vs hearsay? The connection to "Hauns Mill"? Thanks again.
I have a couple who are close friends of mine. They were in Utah in 59. They stopped at a restaurant to eat lunch and the sheriff came in. Said, "You two own that trailer and car out there?" "Yes." they replied. Sheriff said that he would sit with them until they finished lunch and then escort them out of town for a ways, (he followed them for about 50miles.). They asked him in the diner what the problem was and he said that in Utah, at that time, there was a law that allowed any Mormon to take every belonging from anyone that came into Utah and were not Mormon. He told them one of his deputies got a call telling him that they were going to take my friends car and trailer. Then they were going to kill the couple so that there would be no questions. True story. Clarence still fumed over it 40 years later.
holystars Yeah, or according to recent events the BLM. Both of these people are gone now, but they used to tell this story every time we got together. If just used to burn my friends wife's up to think about the arrogance of the Mormons out there who thought they had the right to do that.
JohnECommon Call whatever you want. In my mind you might want to call a psychiatrist, being this paranoid. This is a true story and the two people who told it never lied. So I don't personally give a rat's behind what you call. Call your boyfriend, call your mama, call your sister's boyfriend, call your pharmacy and get your lithium.
Thanks for the informative video!! I never knew about this. I'm so grateful I left the Mormon religion. I remember when I use to attend church I always felt the church was presenting itself to be too perfect. Now, I know they were trying to coverup there evil past. Again, thanks!
Thank you LoveMusic, Remember it was religious leaders in Christ day that had Him put on the cross. That should cause us to be careful when it come to religion. Thank you my friend. Jerry
Only trouble is Jerry is that all religions are dishonest and created to divide and control the masses. There was NO Jesus period - he and Christianity was a creation of the Roman Piso family in 70 AD onwards after the Romans put down the Jews in the Roman/Jewish War which was basically a war between Elites for the control of the people. All the religions are just rip-offs of the Ancients SCIENCE of Astrotheology. Jesus being an EXACT rip-off of all of the previous Virgin born, crucified and reborn SUN God Myths such as Mithra, Krishna, Buddha, Osiris/Horus etc etc etc. Jesus was created to represent the Age of Pisces - the FISH. Jesus means FISH hence all of the references to Fish, Fishing, Fishermen, Two Fish (Pisces) around him in the Bible and that is why his "birth" date is EXACTLY the start of that Age and why the Romans restarted the calendar from then. Don't forget when he was asked when he would return he said "to watch out for a man bearing a pitcher of water" - Aquarius - and if the Elites get away with their New World Order, One World Government DICTATORSHIP agenda through the totally FAKE debt/austerity and totally FAKE terrorism scams they are going to also have a One World Religion and the new "saviour" for this Age is going to be LUCIFER.
+William Woods Jesus Christ is alive and living, sitting at the right hand of the Father, soon to return to establish His Kingdom upon this earth and every eye will behold Him and every knee will bow before Him and every tongue will confess that He is Lord. God's Word is Truth and the fact that you don't believe it, will not negate it. Jesus said I am the Way, the Truth and the Life and no man comes to the Father except by Me. God desires a personal relationship with man and He sent His only begotten Son to die on the Cross for us so that we could be reconciled to the Father. Sin had separated us from God but Jesus Christ who was born of a virgin, was crucified, buried, resurrected and lives today, reconciled us to the Father through His shed blood and death on the Cross. We have access to the Father through His Son Jesus Christ. You have a responsibility to seek out the truth for yourself. You have a responsibility to surrender your life unto the Father and live a holy life in Christ Jesus. You have a responsibility to search the Scriptures and search out the Truth for yourself because despite your unbelief, God loves you and desires that none be lost. You have an opportunity to receive the free gift of salvation today. It's up to you. Jesus does exist. Why don't you humble yourself in prayer and ask Him to forgive you of your sins through a heart of repentance and believe that your sins are forgiven through the shed blood of Jesus Christ and begin seeking Him. I assure you, Jesus Christ will reveal Himself to you. The RESPONSIBILITY is on you. The Most High God in Christ Jesus loves you; you are precious in His sight. He will not force His Will on you, the CHOICE is entirely yours.
I used to wonder why the church kept such strict veil of secrecy around their basic doctrines & rituals. Once I found out what they were, I no longer wondered. I think most people would be shocked, some even horrified by them; the ultimate in blasphemy/heresy, from a conventional Christian p.o.v.
There were 63 LDS men who attacked the train. You're correct. After one mistrial, Brigham Young served up John D. Lee as the singular scapegoat. You can find the names of the LDS killers/rapists in Will Bagley's book, "Blood of the Prophets: . . ."
The mormons have an on-going history of violence. Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakaeur & A Gathering of Saints by Robert Lindsey; two books I recommend. As usual, Jerry, an excellent piece. If there were more history teachers like you in schools today we might raise the standard of education in this country.
Linda Smith - On-going history of violence? What a crock! I would much rather live in a Mormon neighborhood than anywhere else. I am a Catholic (in name only) but I have attended many LDS functions over the last 44 years including Sunday school, dinner parties, talent shows, family home evenings, etc. I have LDS friends and developed rappor with missionaries. They are very generous people as well. The money they collect for tithing goes to missionaries mostly and other church functions. They do not have a professional clergy. I have known members who are in very high positions in the church and receive no money from the church.
@@JerrySkinner1943You never mentioned anything about the MO gov ordering the massacre of Mormons. While Brigham Young laid low for 18 years regarding Bishop Lee, he did so because of the caustic atmosphere of the time. He did it to avoid a pending massacre of Mormons as well as those who were out to kill them. I have four technical degrees. Three from UC Berkeley: PhD in engineering, MS in engineering, and BA in mathematics. And MA in mathematics from the CSU system. So don't accuse me of being uneducated. During high school and as a college undergraduate I had to take many social science and history courses. Many of these teachers/professors were gas-lighting hate mongers. You remind me a lot of them. I think you are a fake.
2 were my cousins, Dunlap girls. They were returned to the very few remaining members in Arkansas. Mr Fancher's son was one of the children taken. He was actually 12 and not the under 8 the mormons thought. He's how we know everything. He led to all the children taken. He told of all the horrors. The part not mentioned in this video was that every woman and girl (above 8 years old) were raped before being shot. I can only hope they all get reborn to feel the suffering they caused those murdered as well as the victims' families.
@@johnlee1352 I think the massacre part is enough to damage the mormon scum. And if they were willing to massacre a rape is nothing. Hell, im surprised they didnt eat the victims or something.
@@johnlee1352Made up to damage the Mormons?! After they murdered 120 men, women, and children to steal their property, and blamed it on a peaceful group of Paiutes? *That* has damaged the LDS pretty badly right there, hasn't it? Leaving the bodies to rot until the Army buried the bones, then tearing down the monument the Army built? Y'all better go wash your sacred underwear and clean your magic glasses.
There are more versions of this story than you can shake a stick at. If you get one by a Mormon hater you might as well just keep on looking. The version most usually accepted in the west - even though it is only part of the real one - is that as the migrants were passing through they continued to antagonize the Mormons and threaten to repeat the violence and murder that happened in Arkansas, Missouri and Illinois in which as many as 20,000 Mormons were murdered, or died from the resulting privations of the forced winter migration to Utah. The Mormons had been murdered and dispossessed as a people by the governments of Illinois and Missouri prior to leaving those states a decade earlier. The Missouri Extermination Order was one such governmental action carried out which demanded the removal of all Mormons from that state. Mormons had been hunted and killed all over the midwest by mobs having been agitated by politicians and leaders of other denominations so Mormon wounds were still fresh. The enmity between Mormon and the Arkansas immigrants was constantly being stoked from the time the travelers were said to be going through the heart of the Mormon enclave until the action in Southern Utah. Whether Mormon President Brigham Young authorized the attack is unclear but no evidence exists so far that suggests he did. The leader of the attackers, John Lee, was tried by a local jury, found guilty and shot.
John D. Lee had. I believe, THREE trials - the first two had juries made up of (several) non-Mormons - and JDL was AQUIITED both times. It was only when an all Mormon jury was appointed that Lee was "officially pronounced guilty" and order to be executed.
This historical video certainly does not come across as someone being a Mormon hater. A lot of research and detail was obviously put into explaining this dark chapter in history. An innocent group of pioneers traveling through southern Utah was slaughtered by a Mormon militia. This story needs to be talked about and remembered. Not swept under the rug and forgotten
@@kennethalger1268 well, after three years someone responded. Good going Ken. Next, research the other parts of the story I wrote about. But as far sweeping things under the rug, I think you really don’t know the story. So, if you are really interested, read any of the many books written about the incidents. There were many.
My children are descendants of John D. Lee from their mothers side. I had studied this back in the early 70's. When the migrants were turned away for supplies, one of the upset migrants foolishly stated that he had the gun that killed Joseph Smith. That is what had sealed their fate. Brigham Young had Knowledge of the wagon train, at that time he had knowledge of anyone entering that valley. It was his orders to not sell any supplies to the wagon train. Wagon trains are very slow moving. So there was amble time to notify Brigham Young and most of the sate for that matter. They had lookouts all along Mormon Trail. There are church records that reveal his involvement. But they're no longer accessible to random members of the church. After the massacre Brigham Young had feared that Jim Bridger would guide the US Calvary into Utah, who they also feared would challenge their right to their land of Zion, after there was no word of the migrants arrival to California. Brigham Young had ordered his Danite's to kill Jim Bridger so that there was no one to guide them into Utah. Jim Bridger eluded the Danite's and went back east. The church had then put a bounty on every living animal, as they had wanted the US Calvary desolate land bare and void of any sustenance. And yes John D. Lee did die for Brigham Young and the church. His stating Brigham Young's involvement would've resulted in his death by the Danite's anyway.
" When the migrants were turned away for supplies, one of the upset migrants foolishly stated that he had the gun that killed Joseph Smith." That was a falsehood concocted by the Mormon murderers as a justification for the crime. "All information about the emigrants' conduct came from men involved in their murder or its cover-up...In light of their origins, all reports of the reckless behavior of a company composed mostly of women and children must be regarded with profound skepticism...these impressions of the Fancher party's behavior were based on hearsay. Reliable accounts consistently identified the company's large cattle herd, not intentional insults, as the main cause of friction...Such confusion [in the Mormons' allegations of atrocities] led historian Josiah Gibbs to conclude that the poison stories were sheer nonsense...without the poison tales, there is no proof the Fancher party did *anything* to provoke Utah's Indians." (Excerpts, "Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows," pp. 99-110.) Also, considering that the attack on the emigrant train was planned and approved by Brigham Young during a war council with 12 southern Indian chiefs a week before the attack, the idea that the reason for the attack was something the emigrants said or did is false.
They stopped off at Salt Lake to inquire the way, And Brigham declared that sweet Betsy could stay, But Betsy got frightened and ran like a deer, While Brigham stood pawing the ground like a steer. Lyrics from song: Sweet Betsy from Pike
I used to work with some Mormons who lived in the St George area and they used to say " Bringem young and bringem often." The Mormons I knew were decent people but very hierarchical. Their religious hierarchy extended into everyday life and even on the job site. It was and is a cult.
You talk like Mormons today were there and participated. It was a disgusting execution committed by individuals. Lds people today had nothing to do with it.
After Lee was excommunicated from the Mormon church he settled in northern Arizona and opened a ferry service across the Colorado River. To this day the location is still known as Lee's Ferry, Arizona.
There is also a memorial plaque in Mountain Meadows, it is a beautiful, serene spot and definitely worth a trip to see. On a side note, most people know there are good people, and bad people in the world; in every race, in every religion, in every man-made organization.
My 4th gg parents Stephen and Elizabeth Muir accompanied these orphaned children back to the east. They immigrated from Scotland with their oldest son who was married with children but they refused to follow their sons new LDS faith and once their son took on a second wife they were furious and extremely upset with polygamy and packed up and moved back to scotland.
Of course he was involved. If you know anything about the history of the Mormons, you would know there was no way anyone would make a move without Young commanding it. He strongly influenced Joseph Smith at Nauvoo, and in my opinion, probably arranged the arrest and lynching of Smith and his brother. With them out of the way, he had complete control of the Mormon church. After all, the university is named after Brigham Young, not Joseph Smith, the founder of the church.
Mormon hatred of outsiders was well documented at this time. President Buchanan was so moved by the mormon atrocities, he issued a destruction order against the mormons.
You people are going to be rich once you complie all your primary souces into a book that delivers the definitive proof the B.Y. was the evil mastermind behind MMM. Or you can just make it up as you go along; your base won't know the difference or care for that matter.
I just got done with Mark Twains "Roughinj It" . At the end of the book,he talks about the massacure. He said that another reason for the massacure was that there was quit a few Mormon deserters in the wagon train.
Wow, this is a good historical video. I learned something new that I never knew about the Mormon religion. I am a new subscriber so I am truly enjoying your videos. Thank you.
I grew up in Cedar City Utah. I've been to this site. This is a prime example of the corruption of the Mormons from top to bottom. There is no separation of church and state.
@@lindalds im lds but not by because i want to most are born in to the slavery lol only 61% in Utah is Mormon numbers are deciding every yr i will never vote for a Mormon are you from Utah ?
@@badwild19992003 I am LDS by choice. I lived in Utah for about three years, but, no, I'm from "back east". I joined the church in 1979, when I was 21 years old. I used to HATE it when Utah people moved here and would stand up in meetings and say how HAPPY they were to be in the "mission field". I was in Utah for three years, and they need missionaries as much, if not more, than we do! No, I don't want to live in Utah again.
Jerry, thanks for taking the time to shed more light on this event. I enjoyed your UA-cam post. In my research on the story, I've found no evidence of the surviving children being auctioned to area Mormons. Federal Agent Jacob Forney, returned 16 of the 17 children back to family. Beyond those remarks, you've done well to tell this story. I produced a documentary in 2001 on this event that you can see here - ua-cam.com/video/Mai5F1O10oI/v-deo.html. -Eric Young
+The Mountain Meadows Massacre Eric, thank you, and i watch your video and it is very enjoyable. A lot more professional job than mine. Thank you for telling me about it. Do you have any more? Thank you again. Jerry
Right, and that is believable. Men with their families on a rampage. Suit that baby boy up Nelly. Royalty would never engage befor tea tine. That would be uncivilized.
BAKER-FANCHER management team just before leaving... ...."we have a lot of nice stuff, do you think we should hire some muscle, possibly plan for some....RANDOM adversity?" "Nah" "We good".
I have heard about this before. It was a story on unsolved mysterys. I know that the Mormon's use to raid wagon trains for the women. How do you think they got all those wives.
marie mcclish If you check out things like the Haun's Mill massacre, or Far West Missouri, or any of the history of the Mormons before they left for Salt Lake valley, you would see how they could be rather punch drunk. I heard that the Fancher party were told they should double back to Ft. Bridger or wherever, to stay away from Salt Lake City, because of the Army and how Brigham Young had declared martial law. He was afraid that the Army would try to disguise themselves as civilian wagon trains, and enter the territory that way. Usually, they were quite friendly with passing wagon trains, because by the time the trains would get there, they were running very low on food, that they needed to get across the desert, and the Saints in Utah wanted what the wagon trains had, like books, furniture, etc., things of comfort that they had to leave behind when they came west. But the Fancher party was afraid that they would have to winter there and they didn't want to do that. I really don't think Brigham Young had anything to do with it. If he had, it would have been done somewhere where no one would ever have known anything about it, and the people would have just vanished without a trace. Witness how he ordered some young men to turn back the Army, but kill no one. They got the Army to surrender without firing a shot or anyone getting killed.
@@dcenterprises7205 Yes, he did. And I dare say it was not his choice to go to a place as "God forsaken" as this was; I believe he was "directed" by Brigham Young to go there (call it a "mission") in order to "lay low," stay out of sight and stop being such a painful reminder of this fateful event in Mormon history. BY's hope was that by sending Lee to such a desolate (but beautiful!) location, the incident would also be forgotten...and for many years, it was.
Can you now do one on the Haun's Mill massacre? Or what happened at Far West, Missouri? Or the downfall of Nauvoo, and how the Mormons were forced out of their homes, at night, in the dead of winter, with pretty much only the clothes on their backs?
lindalds And the causes of those acts against Mormons. JosephsMyth was bent on taking and getting power. His acts and plans were always hostile to those people where he attempted to set up his empire.
***** Even if this were true, then what they did to *Joseph Smith* and the rest of his "followers" was way overkill. But it was not true, he was not bent on getting power. All they wanted was to live and let live.
lindalds Hauns mill was murder and JS was murdered. Both should have been prosecuted. But JS was bent on Empire. And this is easy to research. You can see it in "Message of the 12 Apostles to the World" and in JS having an Illuminati Council of Fifty that declared him king of the world, made him a Lt General. Everywhere JS went he tried to take over the area, the county or state, in part with block voting. Nauvoo had more Mormon Freemasons than Freemasons in all of Illinois.
***** If he was "bent on Empire", it was because he wanted people to leave them alone, and let them live and let live. They weren't trying to take over anything. It might have seemed that way, because there were so many of them, but they didn't want to take over anything.
lindalds"we just want empire becsuse no one will leave us alone"> Is not what was going on. Get outside the Mormon Hierarchy approved box. Are you ready for Polygamy? It's coming back. In spades.
Thank you very much. Many of my relatives were killed in this massacre. You did a great job with this video.
I appreciate the tone of this piece. Simply laying out the facts as understood. That is the best anyone can do. Tnanks.
Are you Mormon? Mormons are the only ones I know who demand a respectful or neutral tone when discussing their own past crimes 😂 because God forbid such a heinous mass murder be spoken of with any appropriate human emotion, right? Lol
I knew about the Massacre from my childhood as my family in Oklahoma migrated from Arkansas. I was told about the Mormons and the murders they inflicted. There was never any doubt among them that the murders were ordered by Brigham Young.
This is a lie those heading to California attacked the Mormons the church was defending itself
My thoughts exactly
@@ericlemonde5830 What utter drivel. You are either ignorant or a liar. There is no doubt that the Mormons murdered the people....the only doubt is whether Brigham Young actually ordered it.
Yea Brigham Young used his cell phone to call people hundreds of miles away to do something ....You are an idiot.
@@ericlemonde5830 Eric Lemonde
This channel doesn't have any content or truth
Another fascinating piece of history retold in your unique way. Many thanks!
Mark Webb Thank you Mark. Jerry
Jerry Skinner j
funny the missionaries who came to my house had no idea what I was talking about when I mentioned this, interesting their church fails to teach this tid bit of their history, wonder why?
Too funny
Yeah same here.
As a Mormon missionary I denied this story several times. I had never heard my entire life in the church.
It's things like this that are why I'm leaving the church I was born into. At first I was unsure and scared, but once I dipped my toe into a little research I am confident in finally leaving. Hiding this from members (and especially missionaries) is unacceptable.
charlee mcwhirter
They lie for there god. They don't care cause they look at you as shit. Jon
Who profited from one of the most wealthiest wagon trains to travel west..Mormon leaders and what were they building thats right the foundation to the Salt Lake City temple so you could say the foundation of the temple was built with some of the blood money from the Baker-Fancher party massacre even if all they did was pay there 10% tithing and pocket the rest
They stripped not only the Fancher party of their belongings and their children, but they went back and stripped their clothes off corpses, took the booty to John D. Lee, and he and sold the bloody clothing at the Bishop's Storehouse.
A couple years later one of John D. Lee's new teen aged brides was allowed by Lee to go to the Bishop's Storehouse and pick out a set of clothing to wear to the open house celebration of Lee's new mansion. She noticed some of the used women's clothing and shoes had spots on them. The shoes she chose had these spots too. She took a fine green velvet dress and matching shoes home and tried wiping the spots off. She discovered the wash water made the spots hydrate back into blood.
As if that was not bad enough; the teen-bride wore the fine, green, velvet dress, hat and shoes to the party. While there, a young child... a little girl about 9... cried out and pointed to the teenager and said, "That's my Momma's dress! Where's my Momma!? Where's my Momma!?" Immediately, John D. Lee appeared and slit that little girl's throat with his knife from ear to ear. Right in front of everyone!
Ever wonder how truly sick the Mormon cult is? Well... Later, the relatives and ancestors of the Fancher party have had to sue the Mormon cult to have the names of the murdered dead removed from Mormon temple baptismal and membership rolls.
@@truthseeker4431 Unlikely. Tales told over the years. What today we might call "fake news".
I was wondering were the money a stock went
Maybe, Jesus' tomb...
Truth Seeker OMFG! Disgusting religious cult!!
Keep em comin Mr Skinner, I realllly enjoy your contribution to Our History Sir!!
I owe me Skinner an apology. He did a fine job of this doc. I did so.e more research, and he was right on. Of course her has his views at the end as to what really happened, but most historians do. And there is nothing wrong with that. I deleted what I had said before, because I was wrong. Because I checked church history, and it went right along with what you said. It is a black stain on the church. There is more to it. But the act itself was inexcusable, and therefore what came before or after matters not. It was still inexcusable. And may God bless those 120 souls.
I've never watched any of his videos that haven't been well researched. Mr. Skinner always does a great job!
You must be an amazing person. I’ve never seen such a wholehearted apology. You sir really impressed me. Kudos
The LDS church still deny Brigham Young ordered the massacre... I guess there is no proof either way. But, Young ruled with an iron fist..and I find it unbelievable that anyone Mormons would do this without Young's agreement.
@@realdiamondshow there was an article written in 2007 for the church that indicated that Young did, in fact, order it. They made excuses of course...but they did show that BY and a few others did wrong.
The LDS church can never erase the stain of the MMM until its leaders and scholars begin telling the whole truth about it.
A fascinating and doubtless well-researched item: thank you, Mr Skinner.
When I was investigating the church, this event was discussed openly by the local Bishop. He put the blame on the leadership of the church saying "It was the single black spot on the church" in the most remorseful tone. I applaud him looking back, as he did not try to make any excuse for the church's behavior.
And polygamy isn't a mistake dude if your a Mormon your in a cult
I had never heard of this, thanks for uploading!
Well researched with excellent presentation. Well done Jerry! Thanks. I really enjoyed it.
bain5872 Thank you bain, Jerry
Thank you! Please do more historical videos to keep these events from being lost to time. These are fascinating and informative. God bless you!
THIS IS NOT EVEN THE TRUE HISTORY NOT FACT'S . THE REAL TRUTH IS THAT WHITE YELLOW CHICKEN LOOKING PEOPLE LIKE ROBERT LEE'S MOLESTED CONFEDERATE SOLDIERS AND MORAN'S CLAIMING TO BE CHRISTIANS AND MORMAS LYNCHED SHOT KILLED THE INNOCENT IMMIGRANTS AND ACCUSED BLAMED THE INNOCENT INDAIN PEOPLE AS ALWAYS ALWAYS WHITE MAN'S HISTORY OF EVIL MURDEROUS PREDATORS TRIGGER HAPPY LYNCHING CHOKING SHOOTING PERVERTED PEDOPHILES CHILD MOLESTERS WHITE MAN'S HISTORY OF CRIME'S , GREED FALSE ACCUSATIONS AND LIE'S AND PERVERTED PEDOPHILE CHILD MOLESTERS WHITE MAN'S HISTORY OF CRIME'S AND CHRISTIAN CULT'S DEEDS
You educated me about another piece of history I was unaware of. Thank you Mr. Skinner.
Jerry does such a good job! I love history!
Mr. Jerry Skinner, thank you again for another great American history lesson. You are keeping our past alive by telling the stories of our forefathers.
I absolutely love your videos. I am a documentarian as well. Been a longtime subscriber to your channel. Your documentaries about Windsor Ruins and Natchez City Cemetery inspired me to go last year. Nothing like it...thanks so much!
Thank you Jeri. Jerry
Fascinating, My family roots go back to the beginning of the church & I recall when I first heard about and confronted my dad over what he knew... he was haunted. My family is from Cedar City & surrounding area where this happened. I'm writing a fiction story based on survivors of both sides & am trying to be balanced over what was in the minds of the wagon train & shooters. It is easy for us to judge in hindsight but It has such a combination of events that seemed to combine at that moment that added to the trigger point. I have no idea if I'll publish or not, but I can't rest until I discover why
my father and now I, need answers. Thank you for your honest insight.
Dale Stock Thank you Dale. Keep in mind, all through Bible history more evil has been don in the name of God than any other name. I hate to have to say it, but God has never worked in religions. When the religious leaders plotted to put Christ to death, that should teach us something. I am sure He is very angry with Religious Leaders and i would not wont to be one when He returns. Be merciful to the Mormons . What they did at Mountain Meadows is no worse than what other religions did to them. Remember, Just because God in not in religions, just means when the Devil comes in God moves out. Thank you so much for your comment and i hope your book gets published and you make a million. Jerry
Jerry Skinner Thank you, Jerry. I find, especially in google comments, etc., that what you say over God vs religion is very true. One aspect I keep running into is that a religious zealot type thinks they have all the answers and everyone else is wrong. They start speaking not for their belief but for God himself. Very dangerous.
One aspect over MMM is that at first it embarrassed and shamed me but the more I've looked into I realize the mistake is judging by what is happening today and not the mindset of their time- my father said that. One of the main characters I'm writing about is not innocent and participated in the killings. I always wondered what that would do to a person in the long time. The church was big on keeping journals and a history, but I have been shocked over the lack of 1st hand accounts. If there were any who talked about it... it seems silence spoke louder.
*Be merciful to the Mormons*
Thank you so much! I'm so glad you can be so merciful.
Really, can you get any more patronizing?
I wonder, do you keep insulting people because you are embarrassed over the truth of these events? Or are you just desperate for attention?
Jerry speaking truth about BY ordering them killed
My dad told me about a controversy he remembers over the banning of a book about the Mountain Meadows Massacre, which had been banned from the local libraries and schools. This occurred in the area where he had grown up, which was in NE Nevada, next to Utah, and it was during the 50s and early 60s. There were quite a few Mormon ranching families in NE Nevada, so they held quite a bit of sway and political power in local politics. The banning of any books that were critical of the Mormon church and it's history continued for many years in NE Nevada.
The Dunlaps were my family. My line came from a sister that stayed in Arkansas. Young ordered this massacre then denied it all. I'm not sure if the mormon church has even acknowledged it, but Utah has and archeology has been done so we now know, for sure, where the burials are.
The church did acknowledge the terrible event. You should come and see the beautiful Monument on the exact land that likely is where it happened. The Mormons have well honored your losses. I believe The Arkansas immigrants were taking highly bred horses to establish the racing industry, as the gold rush was in full swing in California. When Arkansas immigrants were killed, those horses continued to produce top racing blood in Utah. Without registration papers, my father was not able to participate in the State Fair. He would make bets AFTER the fair that our horses were faster than state winners. The Prodigy of the Mountain Meadow Massacre, helped my dad win a lot of bets
They acknowledged it but did not take responsibility. If you read about the memorial in Mormon press you'll find phrases like the were killed for "inexplicable reasons." Then Mormon president Hinkley basically said, don't blame us, how can we possibly know what happened. He spoke about visiting the site as a child and knowing that it was "hallowed." He conveniently omitted why he thought it was sacred ground. (Hint: because Mormons stopped the Gentiles)
I am also related to the Dunlaps through my great-grand aunt Ethel Moore who married a Dunlap from Green Forest, Arkansas.
@kadiemarie58 my multi time great grandmother was Martha Dunlap. She was too young to travel and stayed behind with her father. She married G.W. Mabry. They lived and are buried near Lowell, Arkansas in Benton County.
@@NuncNuncNuncNuncwrong. Visit the monument and read carefully.
I just found your videos and find them very informative. This one I never heard about but am glad you did one so we can be informed. I have found all the videos I have seen as good work, good research and wonderful to see some of the places these things happened. Keep up the good work.
Thank you Jerry for that, very enlightening. An excellent presentation as always.
I grew up with a strongv dislike for Mormons and never really knew why and then a few years ago I was talking to my dad and he showed me our family tree and pointed out we're related to the Bakers that were murdered in the Mountain Meadow Massacre and I quickly peiced it all together
The real Saints of the church, were the victims.
Ahhh...multi-generational hatred! You must be so proud.
@@johnlee1352 Hi Kevin!!
@@johnlee1352 No one knows bloodthirsty hatred like a devout Mormon. You would have been right there slaughtering unarmed women and children, because that's what you're made of. Evil comes out of your pores.
@@WordSmithForge1 A great, objective, rational and unbigoted response! (Also predictable.) Good Christian judgment. It's the same hatred that drove the Mormons from several states 180 years ago. I thought those despicable attitudes died with the 19th century...guess not. I guess I'll wipe the evil off and move on...wow
A noticeable thing about your very important uploads, Jerry, is that you do not show your face or your personal view. With all due respect to your undoubtedly handsome visage, this is very welcome. Well done in all your work.
Jerry, your videos are really great, I have been watching and finding out what really happened to people. Great research! Thanks for doing these fine videos!
+Bryan Peeler Thank you Bryan. Jerry
I never heard of this massacre..thanx for posting Jerry
+Justin Sane Thank you Justin. Jerry
+Justin Sane Yes, this is the first I have heard of it too, and I am a former mormon.
To this day not too many americans know about this .It was kept hidden not something you learn in history books in school ....
neither have the vast majority of mormons today or even why their holy prophet was jailed in carthage prison , or that he killed his transgressors while they attacked them ,by a smuggled in pistol , or died trying to escape a far cry from becoming a martyr
I'm a family member of several killed, it's disgusting how the Mormon cult has used their power and money to cover this up. It was Americas first 9/11, and it should be taught as the domestic terrorism it is.
I never knew this story How sad and utterly a sad commentary on humankind, Nothing changes, words or deed, just the time. places &
faces ,. Thank you, keep your stories coming!!!!
And victims.
I lived not far from there, if your ever going to be this way again, let me know. I'd love to meet you. You can do a whole thing on the Church!!!
I first learned about the massacre in genealogy. Two ancestor cousins were murdered. They were young men that had signed up as trail hands, seeking adventure. Then I read Banner of Heaven (Krakauer) and got a bigger story. Scary.
One correction, the massacred were not buried. They were stripped naked and left to rot in the open. The US, military came and buried them later.
And those military troops put up a crude cross as a memorial, and when Brigham Young visited the site, he ordered it torn down.
In 1859, U. S. Army Brevet Major M.H. Carleton led the first official
investigation into the MMM. Upon visiting the site, his soldiers built a crude
memorial to the victims out of stones, with a wooden cross atop it, inscribed
with the saying "Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord."
In 1861, Brigham Young visited southern Utah, including the MMM site. The
following statements were recorded of Young's reaction upon viewing the
memorial:
"We visited the Mt. Meadows Monument put up at the burial place of 120 persons
killed by Indians in 1857. The pile of stone was about twelve feet high but
beginning to tumble down. A wooden cross is placed on top with the following
words, Vengeance is mine and I will repay saith the Lord. Pres. Young said it
should be Vengeance is mine and I have taken a little." (Wilford Woodruff's
journal, May 25, 1861.)
"My grandfather, Dudley Leavitt, was present, and he told the incident
repeatedly, so that it has been verified by three of his sons. One preserved
it in these words, quoting his father: 'I was with the group of elders that
went out with President Young to visit the spot in the spring of '61. The
soldiers had put up a monument, and on top of that a wooden cross with words
burned into it, Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord, I will repay. Brother
Brigham read that to himself and studied it for a while and then he read it out
loud, Vengeance is mine saith the Lord; I HAVE repaid. He didn't say another
word. He didn't give an order. He just lifted his right arm to the square,
and in five minutes there wasn't one stone left upon another. He didn't have
to tell us what he wanted done. We understood.' " ("Mountain Meadows
Massacre," Juanita Brooks, p. 183.)
"Went past the monument that was erected in commemoration of the massacre that
was committed at that place.....On one side of the cross is inscribed Mountain
Meadow Massacre and over that in smaller letters is vengeance is mine & I will
repay saith the Lord. On the other side.....some one has written below this in
pencil. Remember Haun's Mill and Carthage Jail....."
(Journal of Lorenzo Brown, as quoted in ibid, p. 183.)
Brigham Young's attitude and remarks clearly indicate that he was not sorry
that the MMM had occurred, and that the massacre was an appropriate act of
"vengeance."
On that same visit to southern Utah, Young spoke in a church meeting. Many
Mormons in attendance had been among the murderers at Mountain Meadows four
years prior, including Bishop John D. Lee, who recorded Young's comments in
that church meeting:
"Pres. Young said that the company that was used up at the Mountain Meadows
were the Fathers, Mothers, Bros., sisters
& connections of those that murdered the Prophets; they merited their fate, &
the
only thing that ever troubled him was the lives of the women & children, but
that under the circumstances this could not be avoided."
---John D. Lee's diary entry of May 30th, 1861, as published
in "A Mormon Chronicle: The Diaries of John D. Lee, 1848-1876", edited by
Robert G. Cleland and Juanita Brooks.
Very interesting Jerry. I've read about this before, such is our violent world!!
+David Smith Thank you David. Jerry
Forgot to mention that the Missourians were poisoning the water supplies after they moved on to kill Mormon cattle and cattle man, but instead killed indian cattle and indian children. That was why the Indians attacked them. The letter by Brigham Young is perfectly dated to not attack them. This part is a lie
+Paul Gregersen The town leaders were actually in rebellion from Brigham Young and did not wait for his instructions and went ahead with the massacres.
Thank for this presentation. A few years ago, on a geology field trip, my class camped at Lee's Ferry (named after John Lee) on the Colorado River at the entrance of Marble Canyon. A devout Mormon in our group gave a presentation to the class on John Lee and told once again the lie about the Indians doing all the killing. I had read Mark Twain's account of the Massacre years earlier, so my memory wasn't precise, but I objected to that presentation and told everybody that it was the White Mormons, not the Indians who did the killing. In fact, the Native Americans, being more Christian than the Mormons, were horrified and would not kill women and children as they were ordered to by the Whites. It was only later that I learned about John Lee's testimony, given just before his execution, outlining Brigham Young's culpability. Brigham Young, for whom is named a university and who is still held in the highest esteem by members of that phony, made up, pagan, polytheistic "religion" founded by a liar and con man. At least they now officially take responsibility for the murders --- but still covering up for Brigham Young.
Mormon serial killers are fascinating. I can think of Gary Gilmore and Brigham Young, to name a few. Something about that ‘Blood atonement’ ritual that makes em so blood thirsty.
The Paiutes had the wagon train pinned down for a few days before the Mormons ever got involved. Read something for heaven's sake! The Paiutes were given the task of taking care of the women and children and did so with relish. The Iron County Militia did the rest. Stop the revision of actual history. Your attempt to clear the natives of responsibility is a typical dishonest liberal tactic to attack Mormons. Stop it.
My grandfather never accused Young of anything but betraying him. Brigham knew nothing about the incident until my grandfather(Young's adopted son) rode to SLC about ten days later. He then did all he could to cover up the incident afterwards but he had no knowledge of it beforehand. There is no evidence of such knowledge. 160 year old lies are still lies...shame on you. I have no agreement or association with the LDS church's position on this matter...just telling the truth from our family's perspective.
@@johnlee1352 Yeah, my family had all sorts of "Family Legends" that I was told as a child that had a grain of truth in them, but when I visited the National Archives and did some research for myself, I found out the true source of the legends. When I presented the true facts to my surviving aunts, they got very angry with me and called me a liar just as you have done. I take nothing back.
@@oldgeezerproductions Well...it's a shame you won't take anything back. That apparently includes your dignity and your integrity...
@@johnlee1352 i dont quite see whats going on between you two ,BUT SURELY YOU CANT BELIEVE THIS ,silly ,in-house created reliigion is innocent in this atrocity! PLEASE tell me im reading it wrong....i know a mormon that lost his faith in the Joe Smith followers after hearing the murderous truth!...here in missouri where the supposed original Garden of MORMON eden is I have heard the murderous stories of 1833 ,where women and children were carried away to Far West missouri when men were out working ,never to be seen again to BUILD THIS awful discusting church.
My ancestors were involved in this. Thank you!
Which side?
Brigham Young ruled Utah and the Mormon Church with a"TOTALITARIAN"iron fist.🔱
Im not convinced... Are there any legal documents, Brigham is even a real name?
@@carleyg1973 the actual name is " Bringem' Young" ; )
@@izzimichaels2892 Maybe even, Bingham...
he was a free mason too
@@carleyg1973 " Are there any legal documents, Brigham is even a real name?"
Are you seriously this ignorant? You've never heard of Brigham Young University?
Very interesting video. I’m related to Francis Poteet who was a part of the wagon train for a good ways but split off on their own just a few days before the massacre. Weird to think others could be reading off my family’s name on a memorial sign and i wouldn’t be here if he would’ve stayed with everyone. Thank you for the video, keep it up.
If Brigham had no knowledge of the MMM beforehand....I'm freakin Joe Smith.
The "smoking gun" is considered to be when B. Young came to Mountain Meadows about 2 years after the slaughter. A U.S. Army contingent came to Utah 18 months after the robbery/slaughter and buried as many body parts as they could find in a mass grave (rock cairn). The bodies had been eaten and strewn across the plain "2 miles east of the campsite (beyond today's hwy 18) and two miles west. The army carved a 12-foot tall cross, placed it on top of the cairn inscribed the words, "Vengence is mine sayeth the Lord." When Brigham showed up with his Danites and read the sign, he held up his fist and yelled, "Vengence is mine and I have HAD ME SOME!" Non-Mormon historians consider that his confession - the smoking gun. Young motioned to his Danites and they destroyed the cross and rock cairn.
Great video Jerry. Keep them coning, 'cause they're far better than anything on TV these days!
Thanks Jerry, Lest we forget!
Thank you for this, Mr. Skinner; John D Lee was my great-great grandfather - and despite his dishonored reputation among members of the LDS church - it is my personal belief that he was, in reality, a very honest, reputable, pious, hard working and God-fearing man who was cruelly betrayed by the Mormon Church, and made a public scapegoat for many, many others who weren't as brave and as honest as to admit their OWN GUILT and EQUAL or GREATER participation in this terrible tragedy....
My Grandfather Samuel Dennis White and his son John were on that raid with Lee and under his direction helped slaughter those people and blame it on the Indians. Samuel While delivered the sealed letter to Lee from Young giving the extermination order and instructing Lee to strip the party of their goods, kill the people, kidnap the children placing them with Mormons. At Young's behest, and with Lee acting as god's anointed giving the order, they stripped not only the Fancher party of their belongings and their children, but they went back and stripped their clothes off corpses, took the booty to John D. Lee, and he and sold the bloody clothing at the Bishop's Storehouse.
Adding insult to injury the names of the dead were proxy baptized into the Mormon cult. WTH makes Lee an innocent scapegoat, "god-fearing man" ? Because he would not break his oath of silence against implicating Young? He still carried out the orders and did the crimes.
A couple years later one of John D. Lee's new teen aged brides was allowed by Lee to go to the Bishop's Storehouse and pick out a set of clothing to wear to the open house celebration of Lee's new mansion. She noticed some of the used women's clothing and shoes had spots on them. The shoes she chose had these spots too. She took a fine green velvet dress and matching shoes home and tried wiping the spots off. She discovered the wash water made the spots hydrate back into blood.
As if that was not bad enough; the teen-bride wore the fine, green, velvet dress, hat and shoes to the party. While there, a young child... a little girl about 9... cried out and pointed to the teenager and said, "That's my Momma's dress! Where's my Momma!? Where's my Momma!?" Immediately, John D. Lee appeared and slit that little girl's throat with his knife from ear to ear. Right in front of everyone!
Ever wonder how truly sick the Mormon cult is? Well... Later, the relatives and ancestors of the Fancher party have had to sue the Mormon cult to have the names of the murdered dead removed from Mormon temple baptismal and membership rolls.
My great great grandfather as well. Scapegoat indeed. I've read the comments on this and viewed the video. I am appalled at the lack of any real in-depth knowledge and a video meant only as a cudgel with which to beat the Mormons. THE FACTS: It was a military operation of the Iron County Militia, a regularly constituted military division of the State of Deseret. The Mormons had left the US when they came west into unincorporated Mexican territory. They set up their own government, printed money and declared themselves independent of the federal government. With the end of the Mexican War in 1848, western lands were ceded to the US as part of that treaty. In effect, the US government followed the Mormons out to Utah. When the feds tried to impose federal authority in Utah, the State of Deseret didn't take too kindly to it. The officers that had been sent to "govern" Utah were sent packing back to Washington. The Mormons had had enough of the "constitutional" treatment afforded them in Missouri and Illinois that ended in the murder of Joseph Smith and his brother. They were in no mood to be governed by the same people who had driven and killed them. As a result of the wild tales of rebellion, President Buchanan dispatched fully 1/3 of the US military to Utah to "quash the Mormon rebellion" in 1857. Brigham Young declared martial law in the territory and the Mormons were preparing for a military assault on their community. This was the climate into which the Fancher wagon train rolled. The Mormons wouldn't trade with them because they were preparing for war. They were frustrated and threatened to go into San Bernardino and bring the troops up the southern flank of the Mormons while the army units attacked from the north. I'm no military genius but you can't have a two-front war. The wagon train was unfortunately in the middle of a conflict they couldn't control and lost their lives. As a military matter, it worked perfectly. None of those people made it to the military outpost at San Bernardino. Innocents die in war all the time. War is hell. Tragedy but understandable. The winners of war usually get to write the history and so they call this encounter a "massacre". If Washington had lost the Revolutionary War, he would have been hung as a traitor and his skirmishes would have been called "massacres"...see how it works? Study up and then comment.
the memorial featured at the end is quite impressive
Thank you Sam. Jerry
Great research Jerry, I was born & raised Mormon but left the church.
LDS church is currently hemorrhaging members because of this type of research.
People have the right to know
LDS church is the only church that has a stable gain in membership. The Protestant religions have lost the most due to their sucking up to the PC crowd.
Nope!!!!
LDS church is the only church that does not remove names if you leave the church.
They told us it was for when people come to their senses & rejoin.
I know this I was in leadership, it’s a way of cooking the books to keep the numbers growing up & never down.
They claim 12 million people when they only have 3 to 4 that even acknowledged being Mormon or attend church.
Hell!!! I’m still counted as being a member.
According to the US News and World Report, the LDS church is the only major faith in the US to increase its membership in the last decade. Nice try.
@@triptriplett4285 Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.
How can they throw anyone out? By the time they call a court of love the individual is already gone. I can tell you are a member trying like hell to defend the faith when your own faith is built on a house of cards, you do everything right, think positive thoughts treat your neighbors well just to find the leadership in SLC is corrupt to the core in every way, money sexually & greed, if want to defend that then have at it. No need to reply
I’ve been to Mountain Meadows,
Another fascinating piece. I don't know if the subject is well documented American history but here in Surrey, UK I've not heard of it before now. As usual, Jerry, you bring it all to life.
Religion has been responsible for so much conflict, intolerance and brutality throughout the ages. Nothing has changed; we've learned nothing, as one faction attempts to inflict their own version of truth on another. Respect to you Jerry and your crew.
*Nothing has changed; we've learned nothing, as one faction attempts to inflict their own version of truth on another*
You're in the UK?
I'm telling you, like I tell all Brits, that y'all better be finding Jesus real fast, or you're gonna be praying to Allah, facing east, five times a day, whether you like it or not.
Mate..you been drinking too much warm beer. Give your liver a break and maybe just maybe some clarity may enter your brain.
EEWW!!! Beer tastes like dirty dish water.
Another great video! Thank you for these !!
A real peaceful group. No wonder I am not overly fond of politicians.
GREAT! I DID NOT KNOW ANY OF THIS!!!
Utah is the only state I have ever been where I felr so unwelcomed. Never met so many people who were cold and down right lied about things. Those poor people who eere slaughtered. May GOD BLESS THEM.
As usual, another great video. Thank you for all the work.
Gene Ballay Gene, every time I hear from you, you're still on that couch. Thanks Gene. Jerry
Photo at 12:08 the man seated at the far left looks like Mark Twain. He visited Salt Lake with his brother Orion in 1861. Could this be him?
Yes... his biography, mentions Brigham Young.
John D Lee was a direct(traceable) ancestor of mine. Until 2 generations ago my family were ALL self righteous, Mormons. The theme of this story never changed; church leadership instigated this attack. Brigham Young was the name always used; he ordered it. Lee would’ve done anything for him EXCEPT DISOBEY HIM! Unfortunately... It was well known that church leadership DID KNOW & DEMANDED this mass murder. Is it a surprise this crime was blamed on a single person? Blame anyone but the church. They also agreed with disguising themselves as Natives & blaming a wicked white religious crime on the Indigenous People of their land. John D Lee was the ONLY person held accountable & The Mormon church flourished instead of facing charges of Treason by the US Government. Money & power can always obscure history, because they hold the pen that writes it. Look up the version the church tells on their website; it’ll make you vomit.
It was a military operation in a time of war. Look up the Utah War (1857-58), you self-righteous hack. Thanks for leaving the church so we didn't have to throw you out. Your ancestors weep for you.
It’s certain that the Mormon militia would never have acted without the approval of Brigham Young. He had absolute control over his closest followers. He even chose their wives for them, (borrowing a few besides). So ignore scenario of these grim murders comes without premeditation. The wagon train was even encouraged to go to Mountain Meadows because the basin was surrounded by low hills that made escape from Mormon tyranny and religious fanaticism impossible. These were violent acts; some children were killed (38) with their heads bashed against wagon wheels or throats cut. It’s the brutality of these murders that’s hard to fathom from peaceful Mormons, but once the deed was done their wives came out to help strip the clothing off the dead. Unbelievable hubris and cruelty. The bodies were not buried but left to the elements. And all the families belongings, gold and cattle ended up in Young’s hands.
Being from Utah this is really interesting we stopped at the site a couple of years ago..
Great video, thanks for sharing
Well Done !!!!! Good scholarship - I think so.
BH
how horrible! such evil men!!!
Thanks for all your work Jerry, this was great
Moo Cow What is great is you spending the time to watch. Thank you. Jerry
Love the beats !!
As an LDS Member I always enjoy your videos. I enjoyed this one as well. I always listen carefully at the difference between "OPINION - THEORY - or DOCUMENTED FACT??? Thanks for this and all your videos.
Guaranteed, none of them made a move without Brigham's consent and orders ! A friend of mine in childhood grew up in that cult. Sad for the innocent indoctrinated children.
How do you indoctrinate innocent children? Also, how did your friend follow Brigham Young's orders? Brigham Young died a hundred + years ago.
@@lindalds upon rereading Kritine b ,I see no reference to any one lately follwing Brigham Youngs orders!She was talikng about the murders!W aht have I missed?
@@leewatkins1610 Brigham Young never ordered any murders.
Very interesting, Thanks Jerry!
I always enjoy your videos. I thank you for this one as well. I'm wondering about "documentation" vs hearsay? The connection to "Hauns Mill"? Thanks again.
I have a couple who are close friends of mine. They were in Utah in 59. They stopped at a restaurant to eat lunch and the sheriff came in. Said, "You two own that trailer and car out there?" "Yes." they replied. Sheriff said that he would sit with them until they finished lunch and then escort them out of town for a ways, (he followed them for about 50miles.). They asked him in the diner what the problem was and he said that in Utah, at that time, there was a law that allowed any Mormon to take every belonging from anyone that came into Utah and were not Mormon. He told them one of his deputies got a call telling him that they were going to take my friends car and trailer. Then they were going to kill the couple so that there would be no questions. True story. Clarence still fumed over it 40 years later.
+bashfulbrother sound like something Islam would also do
holystars
Yeah, or according to recent events the BLM. Both of these people are gone now, but they used to tell this story every time we got together. If just used to burn my friends wife's up to think about the arrogance of the Mormons out there who thought they had the right to do that.
I don't blame them.
I call bullshit
JohnECommon
Call whatever you want. In my mind you might want to call a psychiatrist, being this paranoid. This is a true story and the two people who told it never lied. So I don't personally give a rat's behind what you call. Call your boyfriend, call your mama, call your sister's boyfriend, call your pharmacy and get your lithium.
Thanks for the informative video!! I never knew about this. I'm so grateful I left the Mormon religion. I remember when I use to attend church I always felt the church was presenting itself to be too perfect. Now, I know they were trying to coverup there evil past. Again, thanks!
Thank you LoveMusic, Remember it was religious leaders in Christ day that had Him put on the cross. That should cause us to be careful when it come to religion. Thank you my friend. Jerry
Only trouble is Jerry is that all religions are dishonest and created to divide and control the masses. There was NO Jesus period - he and Christianity was a creation of the Roman Piso family in 70 AD onwards after the Romans put down the Jews in the Roman/Jewish War which was basically a war between Elites for the control of the people.
All the religions are just rip-offs of the Ancients SCIENCE of Astrotheology. Jesus being an EXACT rip-off of all of the previous Virgin born, crucified and reborn SUN God Myths such as Mithra, Krishna, Buddha, Osiris/Horus etc etc etc. Jesus was created to represent the Age of Pisces - the FISH. Jesus means FISH hence all of the references to Fish, Fishing, Fishermen, Two Fish (Pisces) around him in the Bible and that is why his "birth" date is EXACTLY the start of that Age and why the Romans restarted the calendar from then.
Don't forget when he was asked when he would return he said "to watch out for a man bearing a pitcher of water" - Aquarius - and if the Elites get away with their New World Order, One World Government DICTATORSHIP agenda through the totally FAKE debt/austerity and totally FAKE terrorism scams they are going to also have a One World Religion and the new "saviour" for this Age is going to be LUCIFER.
William Woods you're a lie straight from the devil
Jesus was an historic figure.
+William Woods Jesus Christ is alive and living, sitting at the right hand of the Father, soon to return to establish His Kingdom upon this earth and every eye will behold Him and every knee will bow before Him and every tongue will confess that He is Lord. God's Word is Truth and the fact that you don't believe it, will not negate it. Jesus said I am the Way, the Truth and the Life and no man comes to the Father except by Me. God desires a personal relationship with man and He sent His only begotten Son to die on the Cross for us so that we could be reconciled to the Father. Sin had separated us from God but Jesus Christ who was born of a virgin, was crucified, buried, resurrected and lives today, reconciled us to the Father through His shed blood and death on the Cross. We have access to the Father through His Son Jesus Christ. You have a responsibility to seek out the truth for yourself. You have a responsibility to surrender your life unto the Father and live a holy life in Christ Jesus. You have a responsibility to search the Scriptures and search out the Truth for yourself because despite your unbelief, God loves you and desires that none be lost. You have an opportunity to receive the free gift of salvation today. It's up to you. Jesus does exist. Why don't you humble yourself in prayer and ask Him to forgive you of your sins through a heart of repentance and believe that your sins are forgiven through the shed blood of Jesus Christ and begin seeking Him. I assure you, Jesus Christ will reveal Himself to you. The RESPONSIBILITY is on you. The Most High God in Christ Jesus loves you; you are precious in His sight. He will not force His Will on you, the CHOICE is entirely yours.
I used to wonder why the church kept such strict veil of secrecy around their basic doctrines & rituals. Once I found out what they were, I no longer wondered. I think most people would be shocked, some even horrified by them; the ultimate in blasphemy/heresy, from a conventional Christian p.o.v.
This was very enlightening. Thanks👍
I had heard that John D lee was the Fall guy.
correct
There were 63 LDS men who attacked the train. You're correct. After one mistrial, Brigham Young served up John D. Lee as the singular scapegoat. You can find the names of the LDS killers/rapists in Will Bagley's book, "Blood of the Prophets: . . ."
Most accounts I've read is that Lee never killed any of them.
The mormons have an on-going history of violence. Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakaeur & A Gathering of Saints by Robert Lindsey; two books I recommend. As usual, Jerry, an excellent piece. If there were more history teachers like you in schools today we might raise the standard of education in this country.
Linda Smith thank you Linda Smith. Jerry
Linda Smith - On-going history of violence? What a crock! I would much rather live in a Mormon neighborhood than anywhere else. I am a Catholic (in name only) but I have attended many LDS functions over the last 44 years including Sunday school, dinner parties, talent shows, family home evenings, etc. I have LDS friends and developed rappor with missionaries. They are very generous people as well. The money they collect for tithing goes to missionaries mostly and other church functions. They do not have a professional clergy. I have known members who are in very high positions in the church and receive no money from the church.
@@JerrySkinner1943You never mentioned anything about the MO gov ordering the massacre of Mormons. While Brigham Young laid low for 18 years regarding Bishop Lee, he did so because of the caustic atmosphere of the time. He did it to avoid a pending massacre of Mormons as well as those who were out to kill them.
I have four technical degrees. Three from UC Berkeley: PhD in engineering, MS in engineering, and BA in mathematics. And MA in mathematics from the CSU system. So don't accuse me of being uneducated. During high school and as a college undergraduate I had to take many social science and history courses. Many of these teachers/professors were gas-lighting hate mongers. You remind me a lot of them. I think you are a fake.
@@psilvakimo I hardly think an evaluation of today's mormon members compared to the early years of the church is appropriate or valid.
Interesting as always !
we stopped there on a trip from AZ to Utah
Is there a documentary made about the surviving children? I wonder whatever happened to them.
Linda. They were dispersed amongst the Mormons until the US Army came and gathered most of them up and returned them to relatives in Arkansas.
2 were my cousins, Dunlap girls. They were returned to the very few remaining members in Arkansas. Mr Fancher's son was one of the children taken. He was actually 12 and not the under 8 the mormons thought. He's how we know everything. He led to all the children taken. He told of all the horrors. The part not mentioned in this video was that every woman and girl (above 8 years old) were raped before being shot. I can only hope they all get reborn to feel the suffering they caused those murdered as well as the victims' families.
@@neva_nyx The rape part...a hater's lie. No evidence of that. Made up to damage the Mormons...
@@johnlee1352 I think the massacre part is enough to damage the mormon scum. And if they were willing to massacre a rape is nothing. Hell, im surprised they didnt eat the victims or something.
@@johnlee1352Made up to damage the Mormons?! After they murdered 120 men, women, and children to steal their property, and blamed it on a peaceful group of Paiutes? *That* has damaged the LDS pretty badly right there, hasn't it? Leaving the bodies to rot until the Army buried the bones, then tearing down the monument the Army built?
Y'all better go wash your sacred underwear and clean your magic glasses.
There are more versions of this story than you can shake a stick at. If you get one by a Mormon hater you might as well just keep on looking. The version most usually accepted in the west - even though it is only part of the real one - is that as the migrants were passing through they continued to antagonize the Mormons and threaten to repeat the violence and murder that happened in Arkansas, Missouri and Illinois in which as many as 20,000 Mormons were murdered, or died from the resulting privations of the forced winter migration to Utah.
The Mormons had been murdered and dispossessed as a people by the governments of Illinois and Missouri prior to leaving those states a decade earlier. The Missouri Extermination Order was one such governmental action carried out which demanded the removal of all Mormons from that state. Mormons had been hunted and killed all over the midwest by mobs having been agitated by politicians and leaders of other denominations so Mormon wounds were still fresh.
The enmity between Mormon and the Arkansas immigrants was constantly being stoked from the time the travelers were said to be going through the heart of the Mormon enclave until the action in Southern Utah. Whether Mormon President Brigham Young authorized the attack is unclear but no evidence exists so far that suggests he did. The leader of the attackers, John Lee, was tried by a local jury, found guilty and shot.
John D. Lee had. I believe, THREE trials - the first two had juries made up of (several) non-Mormons - and JDL was AQUIITED both times. It was only when an all Mormon jury was appointed that Lee was "officially pronounced guilty" and order to be executed.
This historical video certainly does not come across as someone being a Mormon hater.
A lot of research and detail was obviously put into explaining this dark chapter in history.
An innocent group of pioneers traveling through southern Utah was slaughtered by a Mormon militia.
This story needs to be talked about and remembered. Not swept under the rug and forgotten
@@kennethalger1268 well, after three years someone responded. Good going Ken. Next, research the other parts of the story I wrote about. But as far sweeping things under the rug, I think you really don’t know the story. So, if you are really interested, read any of the many books written about the incidents. There were many.
Funky music Jerry, always great videos sir.
My children are descendants of John D. Lee from their mothers side. I had studied this back in the early 70's. When the migrants were turned away for supplies, one of the upset migrants foolishly stated that he had the gun that killed Joseph Smith. That is what had sealed their fate. Brigham Young had Knowledge of the wagon train, at that time he had knowledge of anyone entering that valley. It was his orders to not sell any supplies to the wagon train. Wagon trains are very slow moving. So there was amble time to notify Brigham Young and most of the sate for that matter. They had lookouts all along Mormon Trail. There are church records that reveal his involvement. But they're no longer accessible to random members of the church. After the massacre Brigham Young had feared that Jim Bridger would guide the US Calvary into Utah, who they also feared would challenge their right to their land of Zion, after there was no word of the migrants arrival to California. Brigham Young had ordered his Danite's to kill Jim Bridger so that there was no one to guide them into Utah. Jim Bridger eluded the Danite's and went back east. The church had then put a bounty on every living animal, as they had wanted the US Calvary desolate land bare and void of any sustenance. And yes John D. Lee did die for Brigham Young and the church. His stating Brigham Young's involvement would've resulted in his death by the Danite's anyway.
Well said. My great grandfather leaned out into the strike zone and took one for the team.
" When the migrants were turned away for supplies, one of the upset migrants foolishly stated that he had the gun that killed Joseph Smith."
That was a falsehood concocted by the Mormon murderers as a justification for the crime.
"All information about the emigrants' conduct came from men involved in their murder or its cover-up...In light of their origins, all reports of the reckless behavior of a company composed mostly of women and children must be regarded with profound skepticism...these impressions of the Fancher party's behavior were based on hearsay. Reliable accounts consistently identified the company's large cattle herd, not intentional insults, as the main cause of friction...Such confusion [in the Mormons' allegations of atrocities] led historian Josiah Gibbs to conclude that the poison stories were sheer nonsense...without the poison tales, there is no proof the Fancher party did *anything* to provoke Utah's Indians." (Excerpts, "Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows," pp. 99-110.)
Also, considering that the attack on the emigrant train was planned and approved by Brigham Young during a war council with 12 southern Indian chiefs a week before the attack, the idea that the reason for the attack was something the emigrants said or did is false.
They stopped off at Salt Lake to inquire the way,
And Brigham declared that sweet Betsy could stay,
But Betsy got frightened and ran like a deer,
While Brigham stood pawing the ground like a steer. Lyrics from song: Sweet Betsy from Pike
I used to work with some Mormons who lived in the St George area and they used to say " Bringem young and bringem often." The Mormons I knew were decent people but very hierarchical. Their religious hierarchy extended into everyday life and even on the job site. It was and is a cult.
Well, aren't those Mormons just wonderful people?
Well, some of them are - and some of them aren't...just like every other group of people.
You talk like Mormons today were there and participated. It was a disgusting execution committed by individuals. Lds people today had nothing to do with it.
A lot of them lived on our old farm in n e Arkansas. At shawnee village
After Lee was excommunicated from the Mormon church he settled in northern Arizona and opened a ferry service across the Colorado River. To this day the location is still known as Lee's Ferry, Arizona.
There is also a memorial plaque in Mountain Meadows, it is a beautiful, serene spot and definitely worth a trip to see. On a side note, most people know there are good people, and bad people in the world; in every race, in every religion, in every man-made organization.
The Piutes deny involvement in this.
My 4th gg parents Stephen and Elizabeth Muir accompanied these orphaned children back to the east. They immigrated from Scotland with their oldest son who was married with children but they refused to follow their sons new LDS faith and once their son took on a second wife they were furious and extremely upset with polygamy and packed up and moved back to scotland.
Caravan Springs... William C. Bellers homestead and his store Beller's Stand is where they met. William is my 5th great grandfather.
A sad commentary on the Morman Church. Young kinda reminds me of David Koresch of Waco
joe smith Helluva salesman he was!
joe smith Koresch knew 2 much?
Also a statue of him in the US Capital in DC. If they only realized how evil he was.
I persoanly believe Brigham Young was involved and John D Lee was the fall guy..
when u provide proof to that assertion you will make millions.
Of course he was involved. If you know anything about the history of the Mormons, you would know there was no way anyone would make a move without Young commanding it. He strongly influenced Joseph Smith at Nauvoo, and in my opinion, probably arranged the arrest and lynching of Smith and his brother. With them out of the way, he had complete control of the Mormon church. After all, the university is named after Brigham Young, not Joseph Smith, the founder of the church.
greyeaglem
never heard that but it is quit possible I had read either Masons or disgruntled members..mostly the ones whos wives he stole.
Mormon hatred of outsiders was well documented at this time. President Buchanan was so moved by the mormon atrocities, he issued a destruction order against the mormons.
You people are going to be rich once you complie all your primary souces into a book that delivers the definitive proof the B.Y. was the evil mastermind behind MMM. Or you can just make it up as you go along; your base won't know the difference or care for that matter.
Love your videos Jerry
As usual you did a fine job Mr Skinner !
One of the worse cults going.
Vickie Ballard agreed.
I just got done with Mark Twains "Roughinj It" . At the end of the book,he talks about the massacure. He said that another reason for the massacure was that there was quit a few Mormon deserters in the wagon train.
Mark Twain comes across like a bitter old prick.
Wow, this is a good historical video. I learned something new that I never knew about the Mormon religion. I am a new subscriber so I am truly enjoying your videos. Thank you.
Nibbble at the bait before you swallow it.
I am a relative of John D. Lee and i very much thank you for knowing the story ❤
Hey, cuz!
I grew up in Cedar City Utah. I've been to this site. This is a prime example of the corruption of the Mormons from top to bottom. There is no separation of church and state.
The majority of people in Utah are members of the LDS church.
@@lindalds not really
@@badwild19992003 then there should not be a problem to get more non-LDS representation in state government, and local government.
I would think.
@@lindalds im lds but not by because i want to most are born in to the slavery lol only 61% in Utah is Mormon numbers are deciding every yr i will never vote for a Mormon are you from Utah ?
@@badwild19992003 I am LDS by choice. I lived in Utah for about three years, but, no, I'm from "back east".
I joined the church in 1979, when I was 21 years old. I used to HATE it when Utah people moved here and would stand up in meetings and say how HAPPY they were to be in the "mission field". I was in Utah for three years, and they need missionaries as much, if not more, than we do!
No, I don't want to live in Utah again.
Jerry, thanks for taking the time to shed more light on this event. I enjoyed your UA-cam post. In my research on the story, I've found no evidence of the surviving children being auctioned to area Mormons. Federal Agent Jacob Forney, returned 16 of the 17 children back to family. Beyond those remarks, you've done well to tell this story. I produced a documentary in 2001 on this event that you can see here - ua-cam.com/video/Mai5F1O10oI/v-deo.html. -Eric Young
+The Mountain Meadows Massacre Eric, thank you, and i watch your video and it is very enjoyable. A lot more professional job than mine. Thank you for telling me about it. Do you have any more? Thank you again. Jerry
A very good and informative video.
Still a fan!
jimdog55 jimdog, thank you for watching. Jerry
The little tid bits that are always left out of this history is that the wagon train was shooting Indians all down through Wyoming and Utah.
Right, and that is believable. Men with their families on a rampage. Suit that baby boy up Nelly. Royalty would never engage befor tea tine. That would be uncivilized.
BAKER-FANCHER management team just before leaving...
...."we have a lot of nice stuff, do you think we should hire some muscle, possibly plan for some....RANDOM adversity?"
"Nah"
"We good".
It was a small community, not a wagon train.
I have heard about this before. It was a story on unsolved mysterys. I know that the Mormon's use to raid wagon trains for the women. How do you think they got all those wives.
Uh...not by raiding wagon trains, I assure you.
you have the best americanna content out!
Great video. Thanks. 👍 *_liked_* *_subscribed_*
how could a religious group do such a terrible thing discussing. great video, blessings
marie mcclish Religious leaders had Jesus put to death. That should give us plenty of warning. Thank you . Jerry
marie mcclish If you check out things like the Haun's Mill massacre, or Far West Missouri, or any of the history of the Mormons before they left for Salt Lake valley, you would see how they could be rather punch drunk.
I heard that the Fancher party were told they should double back to Ft. Bridger or wherever, to stay away from Salt Lake City, because of the Army and how Brigham Young had declared martial law. He was afraid that the Army would try to disguise themselves as civilian wagon trains, and enter the territory that way. Usually, they were quite friendly with passing wagon trains, because by the time the trains would get there, they were running very low on food, that they needed to get across the desert, and the Saints in Utah wanted what the wagon trains had, like books, furniture, etc., things of comfort that they had to leave behind when they came west. But the Fancher party was afraid that they would have to winter there and they didn't want to do that.
I really don't think Brigham Young had anything to do with it. If he had, it would have been done somewhere where no one would ever have known anything about it, and the people would have just vanished without a trace. Witness how he ordered some young men to turn back the Army, but kill no one. They got the Army to surrender without firing a shot or anyone getting killed.
Lee established Lees Ferry crossing on the Colorado River south of what is now Glen Canyon Dam
@@dcenterprises7205 Yes, he did. And I dare say it was not his choice to go to a place as "God forsaken" as this was; I believe he was "directed" by Brigham Young to go there (call it a "mission") in order to "lay low," stay out of sight and stop being such a painful reminder of this fateful event in Mormon history. BY's hope was that by sending Lee to such a desolate (but beautiful!) location, the incident would also be forgotten...and for many years, it was.
Can you now do one on the Haun's Mill massacre? Or what happened at Far West, Missouri? Or the downfall of Nauvoo, and how the Mormons were forced out of their homes, at night, in the dead of winter, with pretty much only the clothes on their backs?
lindalds And the causes of those acts against Mormons. JosephsMyth was bent on taking and getting power. His acts and plans were always hostile to those people where he attempted to set up his empire.
***** Even if this were true, then what they did to *Joseph Smith* and the rest of his "followers" was way overkill.
But it was not true, he was not bent on getting power. All they wanted was to live and let live.
lindalds Hauns mill was murder and JS was murdered. Both should have been prosecuted. But JS was bent on Empire. And this is easy to research. You can see it in "Message of the 12 Apostles to the World" and in JS having an Illuminati Council of Fifty that declared him king of the world, made him a Lt General. Everywhere JS went he tried to take over the area, the county or state, in part with block voting. Nauvoo had more Mormon Freemasons than Freemasons in all of Illinois.
***** If he was "bent on Empire", it was because he wanted people to leave them alone, and let them live and let live. They weren't trying to take over anything. It might have seemed that way, because there were so many of them, but they didn't want to take over anything.
lindalds"we just want empire becsuse no one will leave us alone"> Is not what was going on. Get outside the Mormon Hierarchy approved box. Are you ready for Polygamy? It's coming back. In spades.
Skinner and the history guy are my favorite channels
I just watched a western film and this came up after. The old Wild West, lots of shooting and killing.