1) Join my new FSA Education online community for adult survivors on SUBSTACK at familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/. Subscribe for free to receive my FSA-related articles or become a paid subscriber to access Community features where you can engage with other FSA adult survivors via Group Chats and Discussion Threads. 2) Purchase my introductory book on Family Scapegoating Abuse (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed) via this Universal Buy Link, which includes links to Amazon: books2read.com/intro2fsa.
I am going out on a limb Rebecca to speak for everyone that we appreciate you, we value you, and we miss you when you need to take a break...This chat reminded me that we were not only scapegoated by "family", but we are mistreated by our governments all over this Earth. For power & control, they scapegoat, gaslight, lie, steal our creativity/resources, cheat and kill us. That is a double whammy....well, on that cheery note, sweet dreams peeps! :-)
Thank you, I missed connecting with you all here! Sadly, all human systems are vulnerable to acting out unconsciously - and consciously - in ways that harm its members (including via scapegoating, racism, seeing others as sub-human, etc). As Spock might say (from the old Star Trek TV series): We humans are not rational creatures...
So painful. I was always so embarrassed that my family rejected me especially my siblings. Inside I would beg them please, please love me. They are all dead now and I feel truly alone and I carry that feeling with me everywhere I go. I didnt know it had a name " scapegoat" . It feels like knife in my heart .
It can feel this way. To understand this form of abuse better, you might want to check out my introductory book, 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed'. Glad you're here.
A good one for me today. I saw my Dad on the street and I chased after him. But within minutes he'd triggered me and I over reacted, shouting at him (for not listening, neither of them have). It will not serve me to try and repair a fake relationship with people who need a distorted narrative about me to feel good about themselves. I have to be able to feel *strong* not wronged 😞 as I give up. give up but with strength iykwim. It 's so hard. I feel wronged. Trying to accept it. Who can accept this bull5h1t
Yes this is it. This is the hard part. Accepting that sometimes, there will be no resolution. My mind still tries to circle back sometimes, maybe if I said it this way or that way, maybe if I emailed instead of calling, maybe this or that etc. etc. For me, there is NO way. Because it's like you said: it serves them to think the things they do of me. And it's not even complicated, there's nothing to figure out at all. It's as simple as 'no, it's not me, I'm fine and good - she's the one who's wrong and messed up! what a loser she is! not like me.' A 6 year old could understand the psychology at play here. And yet the simplicity doesn't change it or make it fixable. And the pain of knowing that my family - my mother, my siblings, my dad (RIP) - think that I am a bad and unworthy person will always be with me. All I can do is maintain healthy ways of coping with it. What I want, which is not to be in a situation where this is reality, is not something I can ever have. There are silver linings, I truly believe that. But if I was given the choice, of course I would choose to forgo them and be part of a family where I am considered a full and worthy member. I'm sorry so many are going through this. It still astounds me that this isn't talked about more and I think a lot of scapegoats and people from families with similar dynamics don't understand what's happening and believe what their family says about them.
@@Lucysmom26 I so identify with you. Every word you said sounded like me. Nothing you said differently would have made a difference, our truths aren't wanted. It doesn't serve their purpose of needing a scapegoat in order to feel better about themselves. Most especially not a scapegoat who realizes what is going on and refuses to take it any longer. My mother is the instigator in my family also. Set my siblings and father up against me who I never had any issues with. He now refuses to talk to me even though I have reached out multiple times to him. He's 80 years old. I have no doubt she intimidated or threatened him to have nothing to do with me anymore or else... I have to come to terms with most likely never seeing him again. I will never forgive her for that and for destroying the family. I find myself wishing she kicks the can before him so I at least have the chance to see my father one more time. I doubt she will; she's a fighter and he's the weak one. It's hell on earth having a vindictive, vengeful, jealous mother. I get through it by words I once heard and which make total sense: "The scapegoat in the family is the one who resembles Christ the most".
With the exception of a few hideous encounters on the street from my two sisters, I had to go no contact 20 years ago. They got worse, not better. I know to the bottom of my soul that I will always be considered a liar, a half-wit, a really good punching bag that they will never get to punch again. There is a grieving process that lasted 10 years for me. I just accept that I have no family, that they all died or something. It's better than the alternative. I have adopted a family of great friends.
I've always said I want to be hypnotised to forget I have family. I've been no contact for many years yet it still kicks my ass. I work hard on it. Some days are just shit. Ruminations are my struggle. I'm aware and do what I can. I'm glad you broke free and made new family. I've done the same 💜
Your work and you yourself, resonate very well with me. Studying narcissism thoroughly was my initial very helpful strategy, but it wasn't until I came across your work that I realized there was knowledge that spoke directly to me and my condition, rather than the person/s who put me here. Severing ties from my family, completely and forever, was the answer for me. Fortunately, I have always had a strong innter core and I know I will be fine over time, which is probably the exact quality which made me a target in such a caustic family system in the first place. Love and thanks Dr. Mandeville.
Thank you, Kim, good to have you here. This was my primary goal - to speak to survivors so they better understand what happened to them in their family, versus focusing on the perpetrators of this form of abuse (what I named 'family scapegoating abuse' or 'FSA' via my Family Systems-oriented research). This is also a more 'trauma-informed' approach as it does not stir up the amygdala as much, while going over the abuses again and again can (and usually does).
Thank you so much Dr. Mandeville ❤ We all missed you. Glad you're feeling better, keep getting rest and feeling better. Thank you for today's video. I am glad to be no contact. No matter what I did, my mom & sister would spin my motives around. They accused me of pretending to be nice or pretending to like them or buy them. None of that was true. The viciousness they showed and how they dismantled me whenever they could was too much to take. How they managed to brainwash the entire family is beyond me. The family knew I was not the person mom & sis told them I am. Still they believed them. The best way I will fully recover is by staying away. They will only see what THEY want to see in me. This video is right on time. I feel better after watching it.
That's why I REALLY needed to see this video today. I knew I could no longer visit people who think that low of me. It was torture. So I went no contact last yr. I feel betrayed by my sis. I'm 7 yrs older. I helped her prepare presentations for the ministry work when she was 12. I helped her do her homework. When she hit late teen yrs, she started imitating me and we were close, then we were not. Then mom became closer to my sister. They teamed up against me. My sister actually told someone "I AM BB". It all makes sense to me now. She has become " me". That's how my mom wanted it. When I was doing " good things", my mom wanted my sis to be the " good kid", not me. So they swapped places with me it looks like😁 Thank you for today's video. Get rest and keep feeling better ❤
My family thinks I’m a narcissist who’s abusing my mother when it’s exactly the opposite. They’ve called me a narcissist to my face. They all say I don’t let them talk. They’re right. As soon as they start running their projective comments on me I stop them and push back. It was good for me to restate things and set the story straight for quite awhile on a ton of untruths about me. That’s how I found my voice, by pushing back. But now, years later it’s just exhausting. And it’s futile. They just do more to me when I show strength. My real strength is taking the high road, stopping the struggle, recognizing they are acting out of a primitive unaware self. The hardest part now is dealing with the trigger that happens whenever the projective comments occur. I don’t have a good handle on how to calm myself in the face of the injustice, character assassination. I feel annihilated.
@@dr_power. I feel the EXACT way you do. The false narrative of me being difficult and a terrible person continues and my parents are 80 and I’m almost 50. I’ve learned that this is the way it will always be and so, I continue to be the best version of myself that I can be. I still continue to live a life of service and charity to others (I’m a Christian) including my narcissistic parents, only I do it for me now. It’s futile to hope my parents see the “real me” and have that epiphany that I’m not bad after all. I realise, they never will because they were the ones who made the lie in the first place. There is something rather liberating in this realisation. I am looking forward to the day my parents will watch me living in a state of never ending happiness in heaven from their state of never ending woe in hell. That shall be my reward!
I am glad to hear that you are feeling better Rebecca. You are a godsend. Because of your work and expertise, I am finally able to settle my nervous system down. Because of your expertise in FSA, I have the overview of a lifetime of FSA and am thoroughly repulsed by the abusers. None of them now get into my life unless there is genuine change.
Thank you, Pamela - Greater understanding and increased awareness can definitely help one make decisions that serve their recovery at the HIGHEST level, as mentioned in the video. Glad you're here!
When I was small we had a picture book, "Are You My Mother?" where a baby bird 🐥 falls out of the nest and goes around asking a kitten, hen, dog, forklift, if they're her mother. I remember feeling a little uneasy about this story... my own narcissist mother was mean to me, so should I be looking for another one?☹️
Thank you so much Dr. Mandeville. Your work has allowed me to accept and start healing from the covert abuse my family treated me to. I’m thankful my parents are deceased so I can heal in peace. The best way I can honor myself going forward is to be no contact with my only biological brother who continues to smear me and very low contact with my half siblings.
My scapegoating parents held against me the fact that I was colicky and cried as their first a baby. That was just the beginning of what they held/hold against me
Indeed, the 'scapegoat narrative' can begin in this way (I mention this in a few other videos - it can even begin in utero, for example, an unplanned and/or unwanted baby).
Rebecca, you are amazing. It has taken so many years for the truth to set me free. I feel so deeply for your followers listening to this video who resonate with what you are teaching and are in pain. Your message today feels almost like a distant memory to me. I have come so far. I wish the same for everyone here. If I may...in addition to coaching and other work, EMDR helped rewire my brain and nervous system. My family's narratives are mostly the same, but for me, the emotional charge is almost completely gone. The best part is watching them respond to me with more respect and curiosity now that I don't care what they think about me anymore.😂❤
@@janegreen5301 To be brief: EMDR, IFS/parts work, shame work + working through shame binds. Truly trauma trained therapists and coaches are essential. I hope you can search and find more information. Maybe some of these modalities will help you. You are in a good place on this channel. My clients love Rebecca's videos and her book.
I'm so grateful for your work and others like you as I feel like there ARE people that have experienced what I've been through. I've gone no contact with my family and actually feel some sense of peace now and not the dissociation that I experienced in the past.
Vaknin today posted a detailed breakdown of how projective identification happens in the mind of a narcissist - the process. It SEEMS fair to say (but I am not trained - I'm just a hack!) that while Sam is talking about an INDIVIDUAL narcissist misperceving his introjected fantasy of you (idealized or devalued, but sustained devaulation in our scapegoat case) from ACTUAL you ... and this was often my experience with my family (I would think "Who the hell are they even relating to because it's not even a distortion of me -> it's just not me at all, it's someone else") ... it SEEMS like in the scapegoating family, the 'shared fantasy' of you - the scapegoat narrative - is that they all share a common introject of you ... which is not you. But what makes the scapegoat situation 'special' is that ALL of them share the introject (like when they are smearing you behind your back to eachother - they all mix together the negative attributes and wind up with a common version of the bad awful person you are - they come to an 'agreement' - but really a micro-shared-psychosis, like any mob) ... and hence each of their introjected versions of you shares the same negative attributes. Then via projective identification, but in this case everyone around you, implore you with suggestion and accusation and passive aggression to accept their version of the devalued introject they all share. the house of mirrors - each mirror is saying 'monster! bad! evil! weird! crazy'. And eventually, you (me) as the scapegoat, totally unaware of what's going on, seeing so much evidence for how bad you are in those mirrors ... even though there is NO ACTUAL EXTERNAL EVIDENCE of you being bad OTHER than the smoke and mirrors of their fantasy - come to say, at the very least 'well, certainly there is evidence (the people who know me the most seem to be sincerely reflecting) that I'm bad, and certainly I'm not perfect, and certainly 4 people in this family treat me like I'm bad, and only one seems to think I'm not bad (me), but if they are right that I'm bad, I must be wrong, because I'm bad and wrong, so they are right' ... and the kid is overwhelmed, and buys the cult's version of him. That is absolutely to a tee what happened to me, but the unreal nature of it is also why, and it probably is what saved me, a small part of me always held onto "there is something totally WHACKO! going on here, because it's not just criticism, it's not EVEN REAL - this person they are relating to". (Also the outside world - school, sports, friends etc. showed none of this evidence - but then it's your family and 'they really know you') What a mind f*ck! You almost can't even call it gaslighting because they don't know they are doing it. It's bad enough to date one as an adult. But to be a 6 year old (and younger, and older) KID to be surrounded by two adults and siblings - 100% of the foundational layer of your tribe ... maybe not all narcs, but all participating in the fantasy, sharing the similar devalued introject, it's a TOTAL psychological assault. No freakin' wonder I thought I was crazy, but also kind of thought I was the only sane one, but with 4 against 1 ... the jury was out, and I could never be sure. To 'half think you are evil' is pretty much just as bad and to totally buy it, although I'll be that little ray of sanity is what kept me out of jail or dead-of-recklessness by the time I was 20. Close call! 🙂 What finally made be separate from them was that I realized how unconscious and insidious and subtle it was. I had that realization pretty much exactly the time I realized the same was true of booze - the reason I couldn't quite was that I was trying to outsmart it, outwill it: As they say in AA "Cunning, Baffling, Powerful." Once I realized booze was simply a stronger force of nature than my will and intelligence, I realized the same was true of my family, and that the cure for both was the same: Total Abstinence, which worked for both. We have no problem realizing this with, say, rattle snakes and cyanide - we just abstain. But for some reason it took me til I was 45 to understand it about booze and family, and that they were the same - and then both problems pretty instantly resolved themselves - though both require a practice to not let them sneak back in. Breaking contact is in some ways simply an act of humility, of self preservation. Anyway didn't mean to write that much. Here's Sam's breakdown of what goes on in the narcissist's head, if your version of scapegoating was of the narc-spectrum-variety. ua-cam.com/video/UIhqveGZeKA/v-deo.html
Hi Don, thanks for the link to Sam's video. And yes, you summarize the dysfunctional 'family projective identification process' very well here (as opposed to the type of individual projective i/d process that can come from true narcissism): " it SEEMS like in the scapegoating family, the 'shared fantasy' of you - the scapegoat narrative - is that they all share a common introject of you ... which is not you." // Indeed: this process of distortion / scapegoat narrative is what I call a 'folie a family' (as opposed to the two-party 'folie a deux') - It is similar to a group / shared psychosis, but not identical in regard to the intrapsychic constructs and dynamics going on.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you ... haha 'folie a family' ... I have called mine a 'folie a quatre' before. You have helped me in my process of starting to put the last last 20% of this to bed, although I know there will always be a lingering 1%, which is fine I guess since it will remind me why I got out. Belated answer to posted question about what good came of it: Cliche but true: No mud no lotus. Had they not attacked me and hurt me and confused me, I would not have set out to understand the mechanisms of evil and suffering in myself and others, instead I might have wound up living an average unconscious life.
Ditto. A true pleasure to have you here - glad my work has helped with the 20%. This Saturday I'll be talking about my take on toxic shame and scapegoating - More mud for the lotus to spring from...Grist for the mill...Straw for the back...Fuel for the fire (of deep psycho-spiritual transformation)!
Thank you so much for that link. Mind blown. I have been an introject my entire life! And some of the things said to me, even publicly, were SO strange. The exact opposite of what I’d said was repeated back to me as supposedly something I had said to the point I felt I was going crazy! When I sent screenshots back to someone who was doing this to me their response (before going full blown batshit on me) was “I am annoyed”. To have most of an entire extended family behave this way? So nice to be NC now. And this channel and subject has done more for my healing than anything else so far.
Thank you for writing this. You have described me and it helps to make me feel sane. Ruminating is my biggest issue. I've cut them all off and I'm in therapy. Some days are just rough as hell around this. I work hard at it. Some days I just have to sit with myself and breathe through the feelings. They dissipate. Accepting being rejected and lied about is no easy deal ❤
Welcome back! Hope you continue to feel better and stronger! Recently while doing my daily journaling, I realized I have become the person I have always strived to be: kind, sensitive, creative, intelligent, curious, funny, empathetic, and compassionate. Sometime during my young adult years, I came to the conclusion that my mother was the definition of a failed human being. I was afraid and ashamed of any possibility of being like her. I don't think being the scapegoat gave birth to any of the good qualities in me, but going through the wringer yet still hold on to these qualities gives me the confidence that they are solidly ME. That is the meaning of my experience of being a family scapegoat.
Thanks, Anne. Not sure if you commented yet over in our Community section but your answer reflects a question I asked over there. It sounds like you indeed developed solid ground to stand on within, regardless of your earlier experiences - something to celebrate!
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Yeah I was. Didn't notice there is a community section until now. Healing from FSA/FST is hard, especially before information like your channel was widely available. You are doing great important work by educating people about these abuse. Emotional abuse is harder to define. This makes it harder to stop emotional abuse. But we all know how injurious it can be.
Continued recovery ! I think I've got the bug now - lots of people coughing everywhere . For myself I think the most enraging and shameful behaviour by the family was my mother incessantly referring to and calling me a liar from as long as I can remember . I'm one of those that really value the truth in all forms . She lied constantly and projected her vile personality onto me . I suppose this made it easier for her to live with herself . Using an innocent child as a vessel for your own repugnant degraded personality traits should have some type of serious consequences . No wonder the human race is so screwed up . I went no contact decades ago just before she died a prolonged and painful death . The constant scapegoating and verbal abuse effects have lasted a lifetime for me .
Projection is indeed a driving force in regard to family scapegoating abuse. The dehumanization of one's own child is incomprehensible - yet happens more than most would ever imagine.
Thank you for this. I’m glad you’re feeling better. I was thinking about this today. I was brainwashed from a very early age. It’s a wonder I broke out of it. I deprogrammed myself like I was a cult member. I had to own my narrative and reject the narrative of my dysfunctional family. It was a cognitive leap that took 51 years to take.
One of the many reasons I call this form of abuse "insidious" and "subtle." One does not know they have been brainwashed, and the younger it started (the scapegoat narrative) the deeper it penetrates into the core sense of self / identity.
Hi Rebecca Good to know you're feeling better. Hope you get rest this weekend. I am one that listens to you for the very fact your words do resonate with me, my life. Words are powerful. They can be used for evil or good. They can line up with reality, facts, truth or words can be twisted, perverted, and used to deceive. At some point in life we get to decide what we will believe. We get to decide if we will walk with the wise and become wise. Or walk with the fools and pay the penalty for it. I choose costly wisdom instead of continuing to the pay the penalty of the fool. I have walked away from deception and those who for whatever reason choose to embrace embrace it. I just want to set that box down I don't want to throw it away I don't want to put it on display. I want to simply gently set it on the ground Turn around, And walk away. It's not an easy journey, it's very hard. Yet it is simple. Wisdom and Truth paid in full the price of the scapegoat. Circumstances have not changed. My perspective has been transformed as I walked with the wise and TRUTH. Again Rebecca, I thank you for your wisdom. It helps tremendously. I am grateful for the crossing of paths with you. 😊 Jane
You're welcome, Jane. Such a valuable point you make here: As our perspective / awareness expands, new 'choice-points' or 'decision-making points' become evident. As we begin to follow the wisdom of our bodies, minds, hearts, souls, and nervous system, one's life can be reshaped and resculpted as the 'true self' reappears and resurrects.
Thank you. But how to even want a recovery? I can see your insight and feel your compassion and desire to help, but how to want help? Trying even the smallest thing, like thinking what I i would have wanted to hear as a child brings panic and even contempt for that kid (me). She has always, even today, talked about my death, like how this or that scenario could happen at any time to me. Says it every few weeks.all my life .anyone else have this?
Not sure if this is true for you, but many scapegoated children / adult children may eventually stop thinking help is even possible if their 'cry for help' (aka 'attachment cry') trauma response went unanswered within their family-of-origin. Read this article on the attachment cry response and see what you think: turnerpsychologycalgary.com/trauma/attachment-cry-when-fight-or-flight-have-failed-adult-responses-to-childhood-trauma/
@@Hislittlelamb The lack of care is astonishing, isn't it? Remember these people are unconscious. If you (or I) or anyone felt that we weren't worth the life and breath we breathe, it would mean we were taken by a false narrative from a personality that doesn't even really exist. So, lets create a caring safe space for ourselves to blossom, even if it took a lifetime to get here- we are here and we have arrived.
I can not put into words to describe the hurtful feelings inside my heart and soul of the hurt and anger I feel because of always defending myself from some kind of story my Mother invented about me to my brothers and sisters and my Dad. The Dad that would never defend me, and I wonder does he really believe that? And the loss of myself trying to figure out who I am as a person. Once I found this acknowledge of Narcissist abuse, and Scapegoat, I am diffintly the Scapegoat in my family. I began to heal, and grow to maturity of who I am as a person and I am okay. I'm so glad I was strong enough to escape this cruelty that I have had to endure. My family that Loves to hate me. I stay away from them! Why would I want to be around people that choose to hate me? I choose better. I have no reason to feel guilty or sad for saving myself and staying mentally, emotionally and physically healthy. (I have suffered this my whole life. As a child into adulthood and beyond) I choose a better Life! P.S. it took me 50 years! My age now is 63! I'm glad I lived long enough to see the truth.
I lovr your channel. You have so much knowledge and are so matter of fact about it its just unbelievable how you are so accutate. Im so thankful for everyone of you and I feel as if Ive finally graduated to someone who really understands this tangled web of deception. She didnt quite get away with passing it off on me though. But i dont really believe she even knew how sick she was. A very successful business woman who I just couldn't crack. But i did figure out what was really going on for myself and for my children's sake. Thank you for your work. All we can do is pray for their lost hearts.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse I'm going to order it this week. I can't wait to read it. I just read "People of the Lie". Fascinating reading. Thank you and I subscribed this week. I'm a case study on this subject. I know we all could write a story of our experiences but I never dreamed how awful my adopted family was. I do believe in good and evil and I do believe that people like us who hold on to ourselves are essential in helping others. Thank you again, and I look forward to reading your book.
Thanks, Kay - I think you'll resonate with the video I am releasing tomorrow. In it, I mention the 'dark' and the 'light' and "Which wolf are you going to feed?"
I love the question: What will serve my Highest Good? Bracing today for 2 weeks from now: seeing family at my son's HS graduation and after party at our home. Two major narcs: my father and brother who seek to continue their family narrative. Reflecting and listening this morning, a few thoughts ... listening to a Chris Voss, America's great hostage negotiator and it seems our lives have been hijacked by the narcs at an early age. I don't think we give ourselves enough credit for the changes we've already made, because the narcs are just so relentless. Voss speaks about "listening for the loss" that a hostage taker is trying to protect themselves from. Sad stuff. A few analogies occurred to me: living with Narcs + scapegoating is like a dog living with an invisible fence collar ... early on you get Zapped for being yourself until you learn to become submissive, learned helplessness, the message was "stay here, the rest of the world is ours"! I'm 57 and I would say I sweat profusely, unconsciously (C PTSD). There's a christian saying, "Be still and know I am God (radical acceptance)." This mornings insight ... It's like I'm being released from prison, yes, I'm no longer living in the prison, I am free, yet the PTSD prison experience remains in my mental / physical system. We were wrongly-accused, much like Jesus, who promises freedom and a better life (again, radical acceptance required). I'm a believer in recovery. Brief story: one of the unintended victims of Ted Kaczynski's bombs said to Ted during the victim-statement period: "You have nothing on me, Ted, I forgave you a long time ago." The victim never knew it was Ted, he knew he was innocent, wrongly-accused. Physical scars remain on his body, yet it was at this moment in the trial that the victim felt power return to his own body. Ted dropped his pen down for the first time. This shift of releasing old feelings of toxic shame from the body is possible. Here, and from the work of others: for me, my path includes Sandy Levey (Course in Miracles), Noah St. John (find better mirrors than the funhouse mirrors we were born with) to insights here (FSA / C-PTSD, videos, book) all of it. Grateful!
Thank you, Mike. A lot of good stuff here within your comment. I opt for ‘radical acceptance’ over ‘forgiveness’ for a few reasons which I’ll share later in a video. There is a Far Eastern (ancient, mystical) saying: “Do the clouds ask the sun for forgiveness for passing across its face?” It is what it is. The past is done. Once we stop wrestling with painful realities, we can go forth and co-create more life-enhancing realities today. BTW, I’m releasing new affirmations here for FSA recovery on June 10. Also, I posted in the community board yesterday (in the menu here on my channel’s page) on toning and regulating the Vagus Nerve - Important information to have when you are recovering from complex trauma. Be sure to check it out.
I found your public service announcement and posted it on my Facebook. Thank you for your contributions on our behalf. We are the Keepers of Integrity. Thank you for reminding us.💜 I've been the Estranged Scapegoat for decades (with appearances) and hilariously karma has gotten them all. My workaholic mom neglected us for a guy she thought had money (fake trust fund lay about) and ended up supporting him financially. (She is prisoner to his narcissistic ruling of the house that she worked to pay for.). I'm the only person who never misses a holiday to remind her that I love her and will continue until one of us is gone. My sister went on and on projecting onto my daughter and me what a terrible mother I am, how lazy, blah blah. Her karma was that her daughter's children were taken by CPS, rights terminated, she wouldn't help her daughter and now they're gone forever. My daughter passed away and today I'm retired and homeschool my grandchildren. We take in $3K a month (as a base) while she works for Walmart at age 58. My brother also slandered me for 50 years and now is so lonely I could hardly get off the phone with him, so I switched to texting as I'm pretty busy. (He's not my problem). He told me he was the Blacksheep and I said no, all of you guys slander me on the regular and I never slander you, so Black Sheep is MY title. (long lull, so I continued to describe it to his agony and the look of, "how does she know"). I was simply conversationally stating facts without emotion. He called me "crazy" for so long that my last words to him were, "Whoever calls you crazy, signs your permission slip to act crazy" .... Dave Chappelle. My stepfather said he didn't know if he trusted me at "his" house, ten years ago, so for Thanksgiving we get a hotel nearby so I can see my 2 authentic sisters. When asked why I don't go to the house I always calmly state, I'm just respecting my stepfather's wishes since he doesn't trust me in the house my mother built. Sometimes I see my mom, but he never comes with them which I like. (lol) You Reep what you sow. We must clear the emotional fog in order to see it. Besides, Envy is a Compliment!! 🙂
Your comment and how you handle yourself with scapegoating family members is breathtakingly refreshing. Love that quote from Chapelle. Clearly, you have obtained the state of 'radical acceptance' I talk about in my book and elsewhere. Happy to have you here!
I’m so happy to see you back ! I resonated with this video on so many levels. I had a realization, that I had completely forgotten about. I have to say since watching your videos, I’m slowly remembering things from my childhood that I forgot about. If you asked me a year ago how my childhood was, I would’ve said GREAT ! and I believed it. I never had that negative narrative about myself growing up, or as an adult. Raising my kids was the happiest time in my life. Now that my kids are grown, I’m living in another state, I’m isolated, and dealing with my verbally abusive Dad, I realized I’m telling myself that narrative. I completely cut off my father and my sister. I’m ashamed to tell people about it in fear of them thinking I’m crazy. Now in my 50’s I’m feeling the effects of my childhood. Oh gosh I gave you a little book here. Take care, and seeing you back put a big smile 😃 on my face.
Thank you, Lenore. There are many significant brain changes that occur in the brain at mid-life. Anger, for example, can sometimes be easier to access. We also know that egoic defense mechanisms (including self-protective ones like repressing painful experiences too overwhelming to process) can start to break down at mid-life. This can lead to a 'mid-life' crisis, of sorts, but if one is aware of what is happening, it can provide optimal conditions for deep healing, including healing from childhood trauma.
Thank you ! In December I had just finished up a one year course by Rick Hanson. I believe it was that course that started the ball rolling. I started questioning myself. No memories had come up, but I was thinking A LOT about how me and my identical twin could be so different. A few months later your videos found me, (it was the right time) and it’s all coming together.
How profound if your truth is not accepted by your FOO. Best to go no contact too regain your sense of worthyness. This pervasive sense of not deserving love. Has caused mental illness and self destructive behaviours.Always Onwards and upwards. Thank you Rebecca and hope you feel better. This is
Dear Ms Mandeville glad you are better..As I mentioned I did try to send a question through the link you suggested on your website just didn't work. Is there another way that I can send my question to you without writing it on here , please ? Thanks, Sam
Hi Sammir, I get too much spam if I post my email address here. I checked the contact link and it does work. Perhaps try on an incognito browser or different device.
This began for me 50 years ago, when I was daddy's girl, and mom decided to get rid of him. I suffered in silence for 50 years and when I went to write down the wrongs I cried for 2 days, and later did write my step dad to say he didn't walk into a situation where I was the bad kid- he stepped into a situation where my only protector was gone and I was left at the mercy of my abuser. She fed him what she wanted him to know, not the truth. I didn't want him to go to his grave believing all her lies. This approach is so much more helpful that simply identifying the abuser- because all sorts of otherwise good people fall into their lies, and the hurt suffered by the scapegoat can be lifelong.
Thank you for this - Yes, having a more expansive perspective can be healing in and of itself - And having a broader perspective does not mean one is dismissing the fact of abuse, or excusing the perpetrator of it.
Hi Rebecca glad your feeling better. So many of your lessons hit home I'm going on 59 and recently I've realized many defining moments when I was little that I knew something was different I still sustained a ton of collateral damage. But you've personally have given me a look a few of many layers. My growth was tested I ask my father my pics when I was little he brought them to me 2 days ago I noticed none of mo and i 1 of him and i all my old dance pics old girlfriends pics where gone except 4 and somone cut my girlfriends out of the pics he's standing right next to me I laughed and said why the hell Brenda cut all my pics (golden child) man the devil came out for a second till he saw my face herd my calm voice he shut down and was so uncomfortable he left. He's even tuning my daughter against me with his false guilt but I've issued stern warnings and it's difficult but I do believe more then ever and for the first time in my life I see why healing and maintaining a healthy self is impossible if you can't see and understand you and yourself in the disfunction. And I do see and have much more understanding because of you Rebecca Mandeville and your book. I've watched 100s of hrs of videos on UA-cam and your platform has personally been the missing link for me. 🙏.. The hardest work ever and just getting started. Thank you so much!
Thank you for letting me know, Jim. Precisely why I self-published: Traditional publishers wanted a 'canned' recovery/self-help book and I knew that was not what was needed by adult survivors of FSA. Comments like yours serve as further validation that I made the right decision to stick to my original vision.
No please don't ever quit on this vision!! I believe a ton of us are truly inspired and motivated with hard but truthful FACTS understanding which helps connect and correct me I'm wrong please. The silver lining I've realized this is where truth hope peace and many other missing parts of worth that were stolen can and will be dealt with one at a time reclaiming what was rightfully ours to begin with. And it's going to take a really long time and Rebecca Mandeville I know it's hard to former family Scapegoats to even feel needed respected little lone loved I sure hope you feel all of ours. I personally struggle with complements and validation and realized pretty much we all do and pretty sure these our things you've personally experienced, survived, thrived, now teaching with passion understanding. Rebecca you have our undivided attention. WE ♥ YOU!!
@@jimbyrne8281 You made my morning - And of course, you know that famous trope: "Write about what you know" (!) (New video just came out this morning on toxic shame and FSA - check it out when you can).
Got the book today! I want to ask about my daughter who treats me like my family does. Its fairly new or so I thought. We used to be close but since I cut off my family my daughter has cut me off. Im shocked but in retrospect I can see how they have influenced her. I was a young single mum and relied on my family. The day after my daughter was born my mother said she was going for custody . I was 21.My parents used to babysit while I worked but I caught my mother telling my daughter to call her "Mum". I put my daughter in daycare after that but she was miserable and I was stupid and broke and let her go back. They would take her on vacations with my sister. A few years ago they all planned a cruise behind my back. I was upset with my family but not her although she was an adult. Last year she came over with my sister and basically they bullied me together and then my sister threatened me with the paramedics.( She learned that from my parents ) It was surreal . I totally froze. It is the worst to have my child(shes 29) join in with the family. I see her as surrounded by abusers ( including her father) and while Im grieving and devastated Im afraid for her. My sister doesn't have kids but she has money and she is getting older. I don't know how my daughter actually feels. She won't speak to me. Last month, after no contact, my sister sent me a nasty email and called my superintendent to see if I had killed myself .. ..but she's actually very likeable, funny and generous and that is how she fools people. Anyway would you do a video on how toxic families alienate the scapegoats children? They "golden child" them with vacations and mega Christmas and undermine authority and lie and threaten custody. My heart is broken...and so is my head. I just want a relationship with my daughter but I don't know how. Thanks Rebecca.
Glad you got the book! Indeed, the situation you describe is, in my mind, one of the most difficult experiences the FSA adult survivor who has children can face. There are no easy answers or solutions. I've had clients who discovered later (through their adult child) that this 'indoctrination' into the 'scapegoat narrative' began as early as the age of four, courtesy of the child's grandparent. It's quite a shocking discovery for the FSA adult survivor. It is actually a form of parental alienation, courtesy of the FSA target's scapegoating parent. And yes, I will do a video on this but there are few solutions. In the end, one must protect their emotional and mental health, which may mean accepting what might feel (understandably) unacceptable. Miracles do happen, however. I have seen adult children realize what has happened and they reach out to their scapegoated parent to share the indoctrination story, apologize, and ask for forgiveness.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse thank you so much Rebecca. For responding and for your understanding. People don't understand. They couldn't. If others can avoid the same trap though. I know I just have to get on and get healthy. I'm reading your book right now! It's a gift.💚
I've been no contact with my family. They called and text I told my mother I'm fine I told her I need time for myself to heal. She kept texting then she got my aunt her flying monkey to call then she called my ex husband saying she bought bookbags for my kids and told him my stepfather almost died. They're trying to get me to feel guilty for going no contact. They broke me so bad my whole life they told me I was crazy my mother told me she always knew something was wrong with me. I hated myself. I put up with physical and mental abuse from my husband. I'm really trying to heal now and they are coming full force to get me back in my role.
I'm past the shame. I'm past the need to have my siblings in my life. I love and respect myself too much to allow them to continue to abuse me. It was bad enough having my father scapegoating me, but to have my older sister do it meant I needed to find a way to deal with it. Then I realized that not only was this older sister a narcissist, but my younger sister is a narcissist as well. My youngest sister doesnt really know me as I left home when she was eight and we never really communicated. I am sure that who she believes me to be has been shaped by the older narcissist as they are fairly close. My family had to make up a fantasy about me being crazy, vengeful, and a liar because I won't keep quiet abouth the abuse, incest, and scapegoating that has gone on in my family.
I always take something from the videos you post. I'm going through my own process, one to long for a post. Having listened to three other competent people in your field, I feel your videos take me further along a journey I wish I long ago embarked. Although I believe it will be difficult, I know I have to read your book. But at the same time, reading your book I feel will help me place past life events were they belong. Take Care, and have a strong recovery from your illness.
Hi Ms Mandeville, what about the other damaging and false narrative about the scapegoat who is the victim of abuse further introducing another attack ( successuve attacks) to the childhood narrative by being portrayed as the one who is rightly blamed by the narcissist ( woman in my case whom i was sadly born to) and who then poisons all your relationships by building and continuing to falsify the account of what she is the architect of. I was both pleased that you speak of the false narrative re being defective as i recall that from my earliest years but what of all the poisonous and malicious lies and manipulation where the architect narcissist manages to recruit those who once claimed to love you and who suddenly dont even wish to give you tje opportunity of listening to your truth😢as they are put at gun point ( not literally but emotionally) to choose and decide it is in their emotional and or financial interest to side with the architect narcissist who is malcious , jealous, vengeful of someone she has borne and has no empathy for the suffering she has put you through by quoting everything she doesnt like but adding lies , distortion, poison and malice to her narrative. There seem to be multi narratives at work one about the scapegoat being defective and the other about the reasons offered to others to mask the murder ( not literally but ostracising and banishing) of the scapegoat from all their relationships that the architect narcissist can get their hands on. Please help and do another of your amazing and life saving podcasts on this . Many thanks, Sam
Hi Sam, indeed, there can be multiple false narratives woven around and within the 'core' scapegoat narrative. This can happen in both the narcissistic family system and the dysfunctional family system, but different forces will be driving it. Did you by chance read my book (Rejected, Shamed and Blamed) where I discuss this, including where I use the analogy of the Gordian Knot?
This felt so validating and comforting listening to. I feel much better. Thank you❤. When you talk about this topic it feels so genuine and autenthic. I often have a hard time believing in my own experiences but listening to your videos make me more grounded in my truth.
Distorted narrative is a big part of the abuse and it can seem impossible to overcome. I had two covert narcissistic parents. When I was 11ish, my father had started a business that was starting to fail and did eventually fail. Everyone was impressed with how well he was handling it. What they didn’t know was that I was taking the hit for the lost business. In private moments, just between him and me, he was hissing in my face, veins bulging, that I was a failure, a coward, gutless, spineless, a jellyfish, a good-for-nothing, trash, garbage, etc. He laid those destructive words into the heart of me and I started to shatter. He also hit me in the face without bruising me and shoved me, threatening to “knock me into next week” etc. To protect myself, I started to yell back at him and he claimed to people that I was the problem and that I was out of control and everyone believed him. My mother enabled his behavior and got her own digs in. My father went on acting this way toward me for the next decade and a half until a physical assault at the age of 25 when I had to let him go. My body wouldn’t let me near him anymore. When I was a teen, he actually used our “sad” relationship to get his women friends’ sympathy. One of these ‘friends’ came up to me once to tell me how much my father loved me, how he just wanted us to get along and that he was so confused as to why we weren’t getting along. He was trying so hard, she told me. I didn’t tell her the truth because I knew it wouldn’t matter and because I was loyal to my parents, my family. I didn’t tell my siblings about any of this either. They heard me yelling but not the cause of it. In later years when my siblings were adults in their 30s and 40s, I thought I could finally speak my truth but they didn’t want to hear it. My reward for keeping the secret for so long and waiting to tell it, was for them to think of me as a piece of you-know-what. I left the nuclear family unit too. I was suicidal for most of my life. Not any more. Because of this community and discovering that the way my parents treated me had less to do with me and more with how they regulated themselves, I’m on my way to being free. Thank you very much.
Hi Lorna - There is so much in that comment that many FSA adult survivors will relate to - myself included. You summarize the FSA target's 'double bind' that I mention in this video very well, especially this part here: "I didn’t tell her the truth because I knew it wouldn’t matter and because I was loyal to my parents, my family. I didn’t tell my siblings about any of this either. They heard me yelling but not the cause of it. In later years when my siblings were adults in their 30s and 40s, I thought I could finally speak my truth but they didn’t want to hear it. My reward for keeping the secret for so long and waiting to tell it, was for them to think of me as a piece of you-know-what. I left the nuclear family unit too."
My experience is healing is possible at any age. You might take a look at my FSA survivor resource list and start with my introductory book on FSA, listed at the top, and go from there. familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/p/resources
Thank you for doing these videos. I just found you today, and I've already watched to several of your videos. I've been on a bit of a recovery journey for the last few years, and your videos speak TO ME and are very helpful. So, again, thank you for sharing them!
You are so welcome. If this form of abuse resonates with you, you may also want to read my book on FSA, 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed'. Amazon and most book stores carry it internationally.
What about when the parent drains your energy and is the energy vampire parent who also is the perpetrator of the scapegoat. They drain the empath or HSP child of positive energy.
Rebecca it is because of your videos I have gone from being clueless, to being armed with knowledge - I’m deeply thankful. Could I ask a question please to all you lovely people? Now I understand and have a name for what has gone on in my life, I’m struggling with how I view my 80 year old parents. The only way I can describe it is, I feel like Dorothy in the wizard of Oz, when she pulls back the curtain and sees that there never was a supreme wizard. Just a regular person who can’t help her. Or in other words, the rug has been been pulled out from under my feet. Whilst I’m grateful for the knowledge, understanding and validation, I’m struggling now that my narcissistic father has fallen from the pedestal. I’m lost as to what I do with my feelings of disrespect. It’s like believing in God, then finding out he never existed. Can anyone else relate? Thanks.
Good analogy - I use this analogy often in my practice when discussing narcissistic family members. You might do what Dorothy eventually did - return to your inner 'home' - your true self nature, and reconnect with your inner ground - your innate wholeness and your truth; I did a two-part video on this end of last month / beginning of this month.
Thank you for another great video on toxic shame: Im 63. At 33 I read a book Heal the shame that binds you Jerald Kabalski . Still in contact with NPD family. Still in a church with dysfunctional people ( included myself ). So not ready to receive the message. Now I am. What I want to say about this kind of family system Shame is; It sticks to every emerging need and want and thoughts about yourself like jam! I have realised now that I simply have been unable to seperate the Shame from who I actually am!!!! Like being wrapped in it. Trapped. Wow!!! It’s going to be a few long years whilst I tend to freeing my character from their (NPD behaviours ) ! So important to me - to develop the attitudes God holds dear-. I find that I need Hope and faith and a lot of His Love - to deal with the aftermaths. Thank you again for your almighty work
You're welcome. I use the analogy of being tarred and feathered in a few of my videos. Like jam, tar is sticky. The feathers are the family 'shame' projection (which ties into intergenerational trauma). If you feel ready to now heal, you will likely benefit from reading my introductory guide on FSA, 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed'.
Hi, I'm glad I've found your channel. I had to go no contact with my covert narc mom last year, next month will be a year. It is another thing to deal with the other family members and discover the family dynamic. Thanks for sharing all that precious information! :)
Glad you’re here - To further understand the insidious family dynamics likely at play, you may want to read my book, ‘Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed’, in addition to exploring my playlists here.
I dont consciously tell myself a story I just find that I am stuck in those emotions of noone loves me so I don't love them on a regular basis, I pull away from those closest to me (not the scapegoaters) and tell myself that story bc sitting in that place of retreat feels most comfortable to me. Sitting in the sorrow
Yes, it can feel strangely comfortable. You have some deep insight into what may be going on. This is why I often say that we must become willing to be uncomfortable at times during our recovery journey.
My family thinks I’m a narcissist who’s abusing my mother when it’s exactly the opposite. They’ve called me a narcissist to my face. They all say I don’t let them talk. They’re right. As soon as they start running their projective comments on me I stop them and push back. It was good for me to restate things and set the story straight for quite awhile on a ton of untruths about me. That’s how I found my voice, by pushing back. But now, years later it’s just exhausting. And it’s futile. They just do more to me when I show strength. My real strength is taking the high road, stopping the struggle, recognizing they are acting out of a primitive unaware self. The hardest part now is dealing with the trigger that happens whenever the projective comments occur. I don’t have a good handle on how to calm myself in the face of the injustice, character assassination. I feel annihilated.
Yes, The perpetrator of the abuse 'reverses' who is the 'offender' and who is the 'victim' - making themselves into the victim. So the actual victim is victimized twice. Dr Freyd has published more than one article on her DARVO research, btw. They are available online for free.
This is very similar to my situation -from your first sentence on, so so familiar. I feel that I did, whenever possible for me, take the highest road I could muster for a long time. But rather than being known for that and the ways I've been helpful and present despite the false narratives about me that are constantly proven false, the false narrative actually picks up steam and I'm known for being combative and selfish - the polar opposite of what seems true to me. If I'm strong, honest, and able to defend myself or another I'm "combative" or always need to be right whereas when anyone else exhibits such a trait they are some sort of heroine. (This despite I tend to speak up using calmer rationality and others tend toward emotional outbursts that are often drinking related.) It's very important my truth not be heard and the louder I speak it, no matter how I speak it, the more I'm tortured. So, my very sincere question is, who is telling you you should be able to calm yourself in the face of injustice and character assassination? I don't think that's you. You don't seem to be about propping up injustice. Your abusers are. Expecting your calm silence is just another abuse. In healthy situations we have a right and responsibility to stand up for ourselves and we're even encouraged to do so. I once felt I was somehow being my truest self when I could remain calm and centered in the middle of obvious wrongs, but I think better to feel calm and centered where you genuinely feel calm and centered and leave what doesn't work. I've spoken up in my defense, in the defense of others, and with compassion about the fact that some need help. But, I'm tired of my perspective, my very soul, being assaulted, even villainized, as a result. So, whatever gets me out of that is the priority even though it means going no contact with a family who I have in fact, at times, shared joy with. There is a lot of joy in the world that doesn't come tied to abuse. And frankly, I'm not even sure how much the joy was truly shared. I have no idea what is best for you but I see you and your situation because I've been there/am there. I just wonder if you might benefit from asking more of the people you choose to be around and less of yourself. Best of luck!!! Let's exchange more comments if you feel like it. ❤
@@MF-my3db I just saw what you wrote. I’m sorry you have had to go through this. I hope you are doing much better now. I’ve had no contact with my siblings for several months. I have my husband and my friends and I’m too busy working and supporting my parents care to notice the isolation. I suspect I’ll miss the family life we had, mainly the young people -nieces and nephews. But unless one of my siblings came to me aware and willing to look at their part in why we have problems, they won’t have a relationship with me anymore. I guess I’ll see them at a funeral one day. Thank you for taking the time to share this.
I remember trying to explain the way I felt to my husband. I would tell him I am not equal to the average human being. I am inferior. No amount of perceived successes or good deeds could redeem me because I am fatally flawed. I also have contemplated suicide on multiple occasions. It baffles him. He cannot understand. I have told myself I cannot even succeed at that because I am too frightened to go through with it. I have chased perfection my whole life. In college, four A’s and one B was failure. I couldn’t enjoy the A’s. And since some of the A’s were a result of 90% total, they still fell short of 100% . I felt like a failure. I knew deep down I wasn’t making sense…something inside told me. But, I couldn’t shake the failure. I also told myself that it was a fluke. That somehow my good grades weren’t equivalent to other people’s. I only have my 2 year degree. Going back would be so stressful because I put so much pressure on myself. I am hoping to move beyond that and go back and finish what I started. I am better than I used to be. I am not as hard on myself and I m understanding now that I’m not innately damaged and flawed as I was led to believe.
I'm having a very hard time reconciling how this is a problem in our brains if we have no awareness of what's going on. So many times i was very optimistic and kind only to be blindsided by how others react in such abnormal and shockingly cruel ways for no reason. I can't see this as as anything other than a social evil that i did not create. I didn't internalize the narrative because i didn't know about it...i was completely neglected.. of course it's depressing being trapped by people living lies but I can't believe this is a "problem" with MY brain, though they sure are trying to make me act like it is! I guess in time truth will reveal itself and they will all be put to shame. Frustrating there's literally nothing i can do about it in the mean time.. apparently it's just a battle of edurance.
Complex trauma and being the repository of systemic projections within one's family (being a human movie screen, objectified, devalued, and dehumanized) does affect the brain. You may not have read my book yet (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed). This will explain in more detail how false narratives impact a child growing up in a narcissistic or dysfunctional family system. And yes, the brain can heal, including via trauma-informed therapy that addresses complex trauma systems and triggering.
What is serving me most for the past year or so is sharing my experience with others, via a platform such as yours, in hopes that it may in some way help others. So while getting these things off my chest I may also indirectly help others who can relate. I started by researching Narcissism but it didn't quite fully fit what I've been through. It was not until I came across your channel that I could so fully identify what had happened to me over the years. Listening to a professional with such extensive study in this area helps immensely. Thank you.
Good to hear. If this is new to you (my research on what I named 'family scapegoating abuse' - or FSA - you may want to read my book, 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed'.
Rebecca, do you plan on talking about repressed memories as a topic itself? As in articles or videos about it? From reading the comments, it seems to me that at the beginning of their realization about the FSA they suffered, victims go through a period of "remembering" those repressed memories. That's a very important topic for me - I suspect it is for many other SG survivors as well. I never understood the strong rejection many of my older male colleagues (specifically the bullies, but I didn't know it then) expressed about the issue of repressed memories. I remember two of them mentioning "opportunistic therapists" supporting claims about repressed memories in divorce courts. "So unfair", because so many "good men and women" were punished because of that. It was rabid - makes me think there is more to them than I imagined.
Excellent idea for a video topic. I am out on medical leave but am adding it to my list; this is something I also plan to address in my next book, btw, where I will focus on what I named 'family scapegoat trauma' (FST).
Heads up about what you will probably face from peers, although I suspect you are very much aware of. I took a longitudinal look at the literature on "repressed memories", "recovered memories", and dissociative amnesia. There is a spike of published attacks against psych professionals and researchers supporting abused patients that ended up in court in the late 90s. Scientometric analysis suggests that there was sound empirically based research trying to counter that conservative narrative (I call them "gatekeepers of the status quo"). Guess what: it is spiking again. I suspect (and even predict) that as your research and the research from other scientists working in any FST approach to trauma are making an impact - for the good and for the bad. The gatekeepers of the status quo within the psych fields are rising again. That's expected. Society counts on them to defend the most important safeguard institution of oppressive social structures: the nuclear family. I think this is going to be an interesting fight. And you will be at the core of it. It's a 30 year maturation period for this particular controversy to re-emerge. This is one article that called my attention to this. It's from 2023: doi.org/10.1111/tops.12638
Thank you so much for your videos. You popped up on my feed a few days ago when I needed this advice the most. I have a difficult decision to make about whether or not to go no contact with members of my family; I'm sure there are many people also facing this decision. Seeing these people can be a pleasant experience or highly toxic. I will try to cut contact gradually.
Glad you're here. You can search on the word 'contact' on the home page of my channel here to bring up a couple of videos I've done on this topic, including this one here: ua-cam.com/video/aUqSSIMRUQE/v-deo.html
I have always had this issue with my family, to them I was always weird, crazy, lazy, etc. Today my narc mom told me that she liked me because I was ‘grateful’ which actually meant that she only liked me because I was settling. And actually also told me that before I used to be (that’s how she perceived me) ungrateful. Which is totally not true, I just saw through their bs and wanted better for myself.
This is another good video describing what I have been enduring all my life with family members. I have drawn back from them and avoided as much as possible because they are not friends, they are enemies because they have only my ruin in mind. Of course they would deny it and are covertly rude and mean for no good reason. If I were to confront them they would deny everything. I only confronted them one time each as they were rude and was met with rage and worse gossiping. I learned many years ago the only solution is to avoid them completely.
Sadly, this is often the case in these highly defensive, 'closed', dysfunctional family systems. Here's a resource list I put together for adult survivors of FSA in case you are looking for more support: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
The narrative pushed on the scapegoated child is you are everything the parent doesn't like in their own self and they deny they have this trait. It can be garbage the parent learned from their own dysfunctional upbringing. Any parent that scapegoats their kid has problems of their own they need to work on from their own past. When you grow up and leave home you may think you are leaving your troubles behind. You can take the scapegoat out of the family but taking the family narrative out of the scapegoated persons head is another matter. Even if you go no contact with your parents the warped messages they gave you for years are still recorded in your brain somewhere.
I wish I would have known all this 40 years ago. I spent years of my life feeling bad and down on myself because I believed the projections. @@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse
Thank you Rebecca. The carnival analogy is very helpful. I was a child when I visited the Fun House in the Carnival on our annual school trip about 10 years old. The distortions in the mirror is what you actually see when you look in the mirror and that is all the mirrors in different ways in the Fun House. The Fun House itself….
I'm so glad you're feeling better, Rebecca! Question for anyone: A central part of the false narrative that I experienced was the accusation that when there has been a family conflict or need for planning communications, my emails were too long and far too great a burden on others. Others' pride themselves on sharing a single sentence or two - stating what they want with no context or interest in another's ideas or situation. Where I to take this approach, I'd be ignored. My responses were indeed typically longer because I answered other people's questions, acknowledged their perspectives, and justified my thinking with logic, information, evidence, whatever seemed pertinent. At least half of the content would not be about me. For all this, I was considered selfish while their approach was exalted; they were/are the good family members. The story is that they are busy, more hard working than me; they have no time - hours spent on facebook or binge watching tv notwithstanding. Even when my communications/information solved significant problems, I was just an irritation and received no credit for my efforts. I'm just wondering...is the email narrative familiar?
Thanks, and this is a great question. One thought I have: At times this can also be related to cultural norms (family culture as well as any immigration within the past few generations from another country) which then influence how direct or non-direct communication and/or expressing emotion is viewed / received (e.g., highly expressive cultures versus more reserved cultures). If one goes outside of these cultural norms, perhaps due to having done work in therapy, etc, it can make others in the family uncomfortable. It is why cultural norms / expectations are two of the dynamics I invite clients to explore, but of course, this is not always applicable, nor is it an 'excuse' for hurtful or dismissive responses from family members.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you. This could sure be a factor. In our family culture, possibly related to the WW2 era my parents were raised in and probably also the dysfunction of parents who didn't want to, or weren't able to, deal with their children's' problems, it was considered brave and honorable to keep problems to oneself - much higher even than to attempt any kind of compassionate intervention. Although lip service was made to the value of directly solving and confronting problems, actual appreciation, especially when said problems related to dysfunction, was not the reality - so that was confusing. So, in part, my ways resulted from listening to my parents state what they valued even if they didn't act on those values. 🤷♀It's possible my siblings listened less and mirrored more and that served them in some ways. So another question: Is there any evidence the brains of scapegoats share common neurology, not just trauma but their normal function? As I read these comments people tend to think like me more than, say, my siblings or even folks at large. Of course this could be nature or lack of nurture.
There is so little research as it is on what I named 'family scapegoating abuse' (as evidenced by the very fact I had to give it a name); there is research that has been done on the classic 'Identified Patient' but there was not as much information available then on complex trauma (if any, given this research began in the 1970's within the field of Family Systems). It may be some of Dr Jennifer Freyd's students (or former students) might look into this (some have contacted me regarding my work on family betrayal and scapegoating); certainly, this would make for a very important and crucial dissertation or research topic!
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Once I became a parent and looked into the face of my young child I became disgusted by my parents. How could you do that to your baby?!
It’s the first thing that I thought when learning about this topic 😢
The difference lies in the brain. Had you or had I been the young adult parent to ourselves as babies, we would have behaved differently.
I am going out on a limb Rebecca to speak for everyone that we appreciate you, we value you, and we miss you when you need to take a break...This chat reminded me that we were not only scapegoated by "family", but we are mistreated by our governments all over this Earth. For power & control, they scapegoat, gaslight, lie, steal our creativity/resources, cheat and kill us. That is a double whammy....well, on that cheery note, sweet dreams peeps! :-)
Thank you, I missed connecting with you all here! Sadly, all human systems are vulnerable to acting out unconsciously - and consciously - in ways that harm its members (including via scapegoating, racism, seeing others as sub-human, etc). As Spock might say (from the old Star Trek TV series): We humans are not rational creatures...
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Tis true indeed. Love and kindness, respect and honor are the tenets I live by and for.
✨🙏🏼✨
AMEN 🙏
So painful. I was always so embarrassed that my family rejected me especially my siblings. Inside I would beg them please, please love me. They are all dead now and I feel truly alone and I carry that feeling with me everywhere I go. I didnt know it had a name " scapegoat" . It feels like knife in my heart .
It can feel this way. To understand this form of abuse better, you might want to check out my introductory book, 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed'. Glad you're here.
A good one for me today. I saw my Dad on the street and I chased after him. But within minutes he'd triggered me and I over reacted, shouting at him (for not listening, neither of them have). It will not serve me to try and repair a fake relationship with people who need a distorted narrative about me to feel good about themselves. I have to be able to feel *strong* not wronged 😞 as I give up. give up but with strength iykwim. It 's so hard. I feel wronged. Trying to accept it. Who can accept this bull5h1t
Hence why I call it a process of 'radical acceptance'. And in accepting these harsh realities, we need not deny our feelings about it along the way.
Yes this is it. This is the hard part. Accepting that sometimes, there will be no resolution. My mind still tries to circle back sometimes, maybe if I said it this way or that way, maybe if I emailed instead of calling, maybe this or that etc. etc. For me, there is NO way. Because it's like you said: it serves them to think the things they do of me. And it's not even complicated, there's nothing to figure out at all. It's as simple as 'no, it's not me, I'm fine and good - she's the one who's wrong and messed up! what a loser she is! not like me.' A 6 year old could understand the psychology at play here. And yet the simplicity doesn't change it or make it fixable.
And the pain of knowing that my family - my mother, my siblings, my dad (RIP) - think that I am a bad and unworthy person will always be with me. All I can do is maintain healthy ways of coping with it. What I want, which is not to be in a situation where this is reality, is not something I can ever have. There are silver linings, I truly believe that. But if I was given the choice, of course I would choose to forgo them and be part of a family where I am considered a full and worthy member.
I'm sorry so many are going through this. It still astounds me that this isn't talked about more and I think a lot of scapegoats and people from families with similar dynamics don't understand what's happening and believe what their family says about them.
@@Lucysmom26
I so identify with you.
Every word you said sounded like me.
Nothing you said differently would have made a difference, our truths aren't wanted.
It doesn't serve their purpose of needing a scapegoat in order to feel better about themselves.
Most especially not a scapegoat who realizes what is going on and refuses to take it any longer.
My mother is the instigator in my family also. Set my siblings and father up against me who I never had any issues with. He now refuses to talk to me even though I have reached out multiple times to him. He's 80 years old. I have no doubt she intimidated or threatened him to have nothing to do with me anymore or else...
I have to come to terms with most likely never seeing him again.
I will never forgive her for that and for destroying the family. I find myself wishing she kicks the can before him so I at least have the chance to see my father one more time.
I doubt she will; she's a fighter and he's the weak one.
It's hell on earth having a vindictive, vengeful, jealous mother.
I get through it by words I once heard and which make total sense: "The scapegoat in the family is the one who resembles Christ the most".
@@Lucysmom26 thank you for sharing. It is awful how many people go through this. Xxx
@@SusanaXpeace2u the amount of cruel mothers. I hope some professional will follow that specific line up, with writing and research
With the exception of a few hideous encounters on the street from my two sisters, I had to go no contact 20 years ago. They got worse, not better. I know to the bottom of my soul that I will always be considered a liar, a half-wit, a really good punching bag that they will never get to punch again. There is a grieving process that lasted 10 years for me. I just accept that I have no family, that they all died or something. It's better than the alternative. I have adopted a family of great friends.
It's great if you can do that. I've found that the patterns repeat themselves. I've been scapegoated, used and abused by friends also.
I've always said I want to be hypnotised to forget I have family. I've been no contact for many years yet it still kicks my ass. I work hard on it. Some days are just shit. Ruminations are my struggle. I'm aware and do what I can. I'm glad you broke free and made new family. I've done the same 💜
Hugs
Your work and you yourself, resonate very well with me. Studying narcissism thoroughly was my initial very helpful strategy, but it wasn't until I came across your work that I realized there was knowledge that spoke directly to me and my condition, rather than the person/s who put me here.
Severing ties from my family, completely and forever, was the answer for me. Fortunately, I have always had a strong innter core and I know I will be fine over time, which is probably the exact quality which made me a target in such a caustic family system in the first place.
Love and thanks Dr. Mandeville.
Thank you, Kim, good to have you here. This was my primary goal - to speak to survivors so they better understand what happened to them in their family, versus focusing on the perpetrators of this form of abuse (what I named 'family scapegoating abuse' or 'FSA' via my Family Systems-oriented research). This is also a more 'trauma-informed' approach as it does not stir up the amygdala as much, while going over the abuses again and again can (and usually does).
Kim your gonna be great. I left my family behind as well. I've healed and accepted it. I love them but I will love them from a distance
Thank you so much Dr. Mandeville ❤ We all missed you. Glad you're feeling better, keep getting rest and feeling better. Thank you for today's video. I am glad to be no contact. No matter what I did, my mom & sister would spin my motives around. They accused me of pretending to be nice or pretending to like them or buy them. None of that was true. The viciousness they showed and how they dismantled me whenever they could was too much to take. How they managed to brainwash the entire family is beyond me. The family knew I was not the person mom & sis told them I am. Still they believed them. The best way I will fully recover is by staying away. They will only see what THEY want to see in me. This video is right on time. I feel better after watching it.
Good to hear, BB. People will 'believe' many things that are not true if it benefits them to do so...
That's why I REALLY needed to see this video today. I knew I could no longer visit people who think that low of me. It was torture. So I went no contact last yr. I feel betrayed by my sis. I'm 7 yrs older. I helped her prepare presentations for the ministry work when she was 12. I helped her do her homework. When she hit late teen yrs, she started imitating me and we were close, then we were not. Then mom became closer to my sister. They teamed up against me. My sister actually told someone "I AM BB". It all makes sense to me now. She has become " me". That's how my mom wanted it. When I was doing " good things", my mom wanted my sis to be the " good kid", not me. So they swapped places with me it looks like😁 Thank you for today's video. Get rest and keep feeling better ❤
My family thinks I’m a narcissist who’s abusing my mother when it’s exactly the opposite. They’ve called me a narcissist to my face. They all say I don’t let them talk. They’re right. As soon as they start running their projective comments on me I stop them and push back. It was good for me to restate things and set the story straight for quite awhile on a ton of untruths about me. That’s how I found my voice, by pushing back. But now, years later it’s just exhausting. And it’s futile. They just do more to me when I show strength. My real strength is taking the high road, stopping the struggle, recognizing they are acting out of a primitive unaware self. The hardest part now is dealing with the trigger that happens whenever the projective comments occur. I don’t have a good handle on how to calm myself in the face of the injustice, character assassination. I feel annihilated.
@@dr_power. I feel the EXACT way you do. The false narrative of me being difficult and a terrible person continues and my parents are 80 and I’m almost 50.
I’ve learned that this is the way it will always be and so, I continue to be the best version of myself that I can be. I still continue to live a life of service and charity to others (I’m a Christian) including my narcissistic parents, only I do it for me now.
It’s futile to hope my parents see the “real me” and have that epiphany that I’m not bad after all.
I realise, they never will because they were the ones who made the lie in the first place.
There is something rather liberating in this realisation.
I am looking forward to the day my parents will watch me living in a state of never ending happiness in heaven from their state of never ending woe in hell.
That shall be my reward!
I am glad to hear that you are feeling better Rebecca. You are a godsend. Because of your work and expertise, I am finally able to settle my nervous system down. Because of your expertise in FSA, I have the overview of a lifetime of FSA and am thoroughly repulsed by the abusers. None of them now get into my life unless there is genuine change.
Thank you, Pamela - Greater understanding and increased awareness can definitely help one make decisions that serve their recovery at the HIGHEST level, as mentioned in the video. Glad you're here!
When I was small we had a picture book, "Are You My Mother?" where a baby bird 🐥 falls out of the nest and goes around asking a kitten, hen, dog, forklift, if they're her mother. I remember feeling a little uneasy about this story... my own narcissist mother was mean to me, so should I be looking for another one?☹️
I remember that book well. It can hit a deep chord in abused children - scapegoated children, especially.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse I forgot to say I'm glad you're feeling better! 🌞
I had that book also😢
yep, i would read that to my kids and would find myself having to hold back tears towards the end.
Thank you so much Dr. Mandeville. Your work has allowed me to accept and start healing from the covert abuse my family treated me to. I’m thankful my parents are deceased so I can heal in peace. The best way I can honor myself going forward is to be no contact with my only biological brother who continues to smear me and very low contact with my half siblings.
My scapegoating parents held against me the fact that I was colicky and cried as their first a baby. That was just the beginning of what they held/hold against me
Indeed, the 'scapegoat narrative' can begin in this way (I mention this in a few other videos - it can even begin in utero, for example, an unplanned and/or unwanted baby).
I relate. My mother still brings it up too after 55 years
Me too hearing that over and over and now realizing what happened from there 😢
@@brie1987wow…yeah
My mother did the same thing.
Rebecca, you are amazing. It has taken so many years for the truth to set me free. I feel so deeply for your followers listening to this video who resonate with what you are teaching and are in pain. Your message today feels almost like a distant memory to me. I have come so far. I wish the same for everyone here. If I may...in addition to coaching and other work, EMDR helped rewire my brain and nervous system. My family's narratives are mostly the same, but for me, the emotional charge is almost completely gone. The best part is watching them respond to me with more respect and curiosity now that I don't care what they think about me anymore.😂❤
Thank you - and I hope your message gives hope to others. You have come very far, indeed!
I am happy for you and with you.
What helps can you share in your victory for overcoming the "emotional charges "?
Thanks Jane
@@janegreen5301 To be brief: EMDR, IFS/parts work, shame work + working through shame binds. Truly trauma trained therapists and coaches are essential. I hope you can search and find more information. Maybe some of these modalities will help you. You are in a good place on this channel. My clients love Rebecca's videos and her book.
LM May I ask what EMDR is please? I’m maybe half way to where you are right now and I’m looking forward to the day when it doesn’t sting so much.
I'm so grateful for your work and others like you as I feel like there ARE people that have experienced what I've been through. I've gone no contact with my family and actually feel some sense of peace now and not the dissociation that I experienced in the past.
Good to hear, Paula. Listening to our nervous system's wisdom can greatly contribute to our healing. Sounds like this is the case for you as well.
Vaknin today posted a detailed breakdown of how projective identification happens in the mind of a narcissist - the process. It SEEMS fair to say (but I am not trained - I'm just a hack!) that while Sam is talking about an INDIVIDUAL narcissist misperceving his introjected fantasy of you (idealized or devalued, but sustained devaulation in our scapegoat case) from ACTUAL you ... and this was often my experience with my family (I would think "Who the hell are they even relating to because it's not even a distortion of me -> it's just not me at all, it's someone else") ... it SEEMS like in the scapegoating family, the 'shared fantasy' of you - the scapegoat narrative - is that they all share a common introject of you ... which is not you. But what makes the scapegoat situation 'special' is that ALL of them share the introject (like when they are smearing you behind your back to eachother - they all mix together the negative attributes and wind up with a common version of the bad awful person you are - they come to an 'agreement' - but really a micro-shared-psychosis, like any mob) ... and hence each of their introjected versions of you shares the same negative attributes. Then via projective identification, but in this case everyone around you, implore you with suggestion and accusation and passive aggression to accept their version of the devalued introject they all share. the house of mirrors - each mirror is saying 'monster! bad! evil! weird! crazy'. And eventually, you (me) as the scapegoat, totally unaware of what's going on, seeing so much evidence for how bad you are in those mirrors ... even though there is NO ACTUAL EXTERNAL EVIDENCE of you being bad OTHER than the smoke and mirrors of their fantasy - come to say, at the very least 'well, certainly there is evidence (the people who know me the most seem to be sincerely reflecting) that I'm bad, and certainly I'm not perfect, and certainly 4 people in this family treat me like I'm bad, and only one seems to think I'm not bad (me), but if they are right that I'm bad, I must be wrong, because I'm bad and wrong, so they are right' ... and the kid is overwhelmed, and buys the cult's version of him.
That is absolutely to a tee what happened to me, but the unreal nature of it is also why, and it probably is what saved me, a small part of me always held onto "there is something totally WHACKO! going on here, because it's not just criticism, it's not EVEN REAL - this person they are relating to". (Also the outside world - school, sports, friends etc. showed none of this evidence - but then it's your family and 'they really know you')
What a mind f*ck! You almost can't even call it gaslighting because they don't know they are doing it. It's bad enough to date one as an adult. But to be a 6 year old (and younger, and older) KID to be surrounded by two adults and siblings - 100% of the foundational layer of your tribe ... maybe not all narcs, but all participating in the fantasy, sharing the similar devalued introject, it's a TOTAL psychological assault. No freakin' wonder I thought I was crazy, but also kind of thought I was the only sane one, but with 4 against 1 ... the jury was out, and I could never be sure. To 'half think you are evil' is pretty much just as bad and to totally buy it, although I'll be that little ray of sanity is what kept me out of jail or dead-of-recklessness by the time I was 20.
Close call! 🙂
What finally made be separate from them was that I realized how unconscious and insidious and subtle it was. I had that realization pretty much exactly the time I realized the same was true of booze - the reason I couldn't quite was that I was trying to outsmart it, outwill it: As they say in AA "Cunning, Baffling, Powerful."
Once I realized booze was simply a stronger force of nature than my will and intelligence, I realized the same was true of my family, and that the cure for both was the same: Total Abstinence, which worked for both.
We have no problem realizing this with, say, rattle snakes and cyanide - we just abstain. But for some reason it took me til I was 45 to understand it about booze and family, and that they were the same - and then both problems pretty instantly resolved themselves - though both require a practice to not let them sneak back in.
Breaking contact is in some ways simply an act of humility, of self preservation.
Anyway didn't mean to write that much. Here's Sam's breakdown of what goes on in the narcissist's head, if your version of scapegoating was of the narc-spectrum-variety.
ua-cam.com/video/UIhqveGZeKA/v-deo.html
Hi Don, thanks for the link to Sam's video. And yes, you summarize the dysfunctional 'family projective identification process' very well here (as opposed to the type of individual projective i/d process that can come from true narcissism): " it SEEMS like in the scapegoating family, the 'shared fantasy' of you - the scapegoat narrative - is that they all share a common introject of you ... which is not you." // Indeed: this process of distortion / scapegoat narrative is what I call a 'folie a family' (as opposed to the two-party 'folie a deux') - It is similar to a group / shared psychosis, but not identical in regard to the intrapsychic constructs and dynamics going on.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you ... haha 'folie a family' ... I have called mine a 'folie a quatre' before. You have helped me in my process of starting to put the last last 20% of this to bed, although I know there will always be a lingering 1%, which is fine I guess since it will remind me why I got out.
Belated answer to posted question about what good came of it: Cliche but true: No mud no lotus. Had they not attacked me and hurt me and confused me, I would not have set out to understand the mechanisms of evil and suffering in myself and others, instead I might have wound up living an average unconscious life.
Ditto. A true pleasure to have you here - glad my work has helped with the 20%. This Saturday I'll be talking about my take on toxic shame and scapegoating - More mud for the lotus to spring from...Grist for the mill...Straw for the back...Fuel for the fire (of deep psycho-spiritual transformation)!
Thank you so much for that link. Mind blown. I have been an introject my entire life! And some of the things said to me, even publicly, were SO strange. The exact opposite of what I’d said was repeated back to me as supposedly something I had said to the point I felt I was going crazy! When I sent screenshots back to someone who was doing this to me their response (before going full blown batshit on me) was “I am annoyed”. To have most of an entire extended family behave this way? So nice to be NC now. And this channel and subject has done more for my healing than anything else so far.
Thank you for writing this. You have described me and it helps to make me feel sane. Ruminating is my biggest issue. I've cut them all off and I'm in therapy. Some days are just rough as hell around this. I work hard at it. Some days I just have to sit with myself and breathe through the feelings. They dissipate. Accepting being rejected and lied about is no easy deal ❤
Thank you kindly Dr.Mandeville . Continue to rest and restore. ☀️
Welcome back! Hope you continue to feel better and stronger!
Recently while doing my daily journaling, I realized I have become the person I have always strived to be: kind, sensitive, creative, intelligent, curious, funny, empathetic, and compassionate. Sometime during my young adult years, I came to the conclusion that my mother was the definition of a failed human being. I was afraid and ashamed of any possibility of being like her. I don't think being the scapegoat gave birth to any of the good qualities in me, but going through the wringer yet still hold on to these qualities gives me the confidence that they are solidly ME. That is the meaning of my experience of being a family scapegoat.
Thanks, Anne. Not sure if you commented yet over in our Community section but your answer reflects a question I asked over there. It sounds like you indeed developed solid ground to stand on within, regardless of your earlier experiences - something to celebrate!
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Yeah I was. Didn't notice there is a community section until now. Healing from FSA/FST is hard, especially before information like your channel was widely available. You are doing great important work by educating people about these abuse. Emotional abuse is harder to define. This makes it harder to stop emotional abuse. But we all know how injurious it can be.
Continued recovery ! I think I've got the bug now - lots of people coughing everywhere . For myself I think the most enraging and shameful behaviour by the family was my mother incessantly referring to and calling me a liar from as long as I can remember . I'm one of those that really value the truth in all forms . She lied constantly and projected her vile personality onto me . I suppose this made it easier for her to live with herself . Using an innocent child as a vessel for your own repugnant degraded personality traits should have some type of serious consequences . No wonder the human race is so screwed up . I went no contact decades ago just before she died a prolonged and painful death . The constant scapegoating and verbal abuse effects have lasted a lifetime for me .
Projection is indeed a driving force in regard to family scapegoating abuse. The dehumanization of one's own child is incomprehensible - yet happens more than most would ever imagine.
Thank you for this. I’m glad you’re feeling better. I was thinking about this today. I was brainwashed from a very early age. It’s a wonder I broke out of it. I deprogrammed myself like I was a cult member. I had to own my narrative and reject the narrative of my dysfunctional family. It was a cognitive leap that took 51 years to take.
One of the many reasons I call this form of abuse "insidious" and "subtle." One does not know they have been brainwashed, and the younger it started (the scapegoat narrative) the deeper it penetrates into the core sense of self / identity.
Hi Rebecca
Good to know you're feeling better. Hope you get rest this weekend.
I am one that listens to you for the very fact your words do resonate with me, my life.
Words are powerful. They can be used for evil or good. They can line up with reality, facts, truth or words can be twisted, perverted, and used to deceive.
At some point in life we get to decide what we will believe.
We get to decide if we will walk with the wise and become wise. Or walk with the fools and pay the penalty for it.
I choose costly wisdom instead of continuing to the pay the penalty of the fool.
I have walked away from deception and those who for whatever reason choose to embrace embrace it.
I just want to set that box down
I don't want to throw it away
I don't want to put it on display.
I want to simply gently set it on the ground
Turn around,
And walk away.
It's not an easy journey, it's very hard.
Yet it is simple. Wisdom and Truth paid in full the price of the scapegoat.
Circumstances have not changed.
My perspective has been transformed as I walked with the wise and TRUTH.
Again Rebecca, I thank you for your wisdom. It helps tremendously. I am grateful for the crossing of paths with you.
😊 Jane
You're welcome, Jane. Such a valuable point you make here: As our perspective / awareness expands, new 'choice-points' or 'decision-making points' become evident. As we begin to follow the wisdom of our bodies, minds, hearts, souls, and nervous system, one's life can be reshaped and resculpted as the 'true self' reappears and resurrects.
Thank you. But how to even want a recovery? I can see your insight and feel your compassion and desire to help, but how to want help? Trying even the smallest thing, like thinking what I i would have wanted to hear as a child brings panic and even contempt for that kid (me). She has always, even today, talked about my death, like how this or that scenario could happen at any time to me. Says it every few weeks.all my life .anyone else have this?
Not sure if this is true for you, but many scapegoated children / adult children may eventually stop thinking help is even possible if their 'cry for help' (aka 'attachment cry') trauma response went unanswered within their family-of-origin. Read this article on the attachment cry response and see what you think: turnerpsychologycalgary.com/trauma/attachment-cry-when-fight-or-flight-have-failed-adult-responses-to-childhood-trauma/
@@Hislittlelamb The lack of care is astonishing, isn't it? Remember these people are unconscious. If you (or I) or anyone felt that we weren't worth the life and breath we breathe, it would mean we were taken by a false narrative from a personality that doesn't even really exist. So, lets create a caring safe space for ourselves to blossom, even if it took a lifetime to get here- we are here and we have arrived.
Once again, this seems to just about perfectly describe something in which I can absolutely identify. Thanks for sharing.
You're welcome, Craig. I can't remember, did you already read my book ('Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed')?
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse I just recently purchased it. I plan to read it on a trip I'm taking in the near future.
@@FreeOkie Good to hear! It is brief. But dense.
I can not put into words to describe the hurtful feelings inside my heart and soul of the hurt and anger I feel because of always defending myself from some kind of story my Mother invented about me to my brothers and sisters and my Dad. The Dad that would never defend me, and I wonder does he really believe that? And the loss of myself trying to figure out who I am as a person. Once I found this acknowledge of Narcissist abuse, and Scapegoat, I am diffintly the Scapegoat in my family. I began to heal, and grow to maturity of who I am as a person and I am okay. I'm so glad I was strong enough to escape this cruelty that I have had to endure. My family that Loves to hate me. I stay away from them! Why would I want to be around people that choose to hate me? I choose better. I have no reason to feel guilty or sad for saving myself and staying mentally, emotionally and physically healthy. (I have suffered this my whole life. As a child into adulthood and beyond) I choose a better Life! P.S. it took me 50 years! My age now is 63! I'm glad I lived long enough to see the truth.
Celebrating your courage, strength, and your choosing to prioritize your health and well-being.
I lovr your channel. You have so much knowledge and are so matter of fact about it its just unbelievable how you are so accutate. Im so thankful for everyone of you and I feel as if Ive finally graduated to someone who really understands this tangled web of deception. She didnt quite get away with passing it off on me though. But i dont really believe she even knew how sick she was. A very successful business woman who I just couldn't crack. But i did figure out what was really going on for myself and for my children's sake. Thank you for your work. All we can do is pray for their lost hearts.
Thank you, Kay, good to hear. You may also benefit from reading my book on family scapegoating abuse, Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse I'm going to order it this week. I can't wait to read it. I just read "People of the Lie". Fascinating reading. Thank you and I subscribed this week. I'm a case study on this subject. I know we all could write a story of our experiences but I never dreamed how awful my adopted family was. I do believe in good and evil and I do believe that people like us who hold on to ourselves are essential in helping others. Thank you again, and I look forward to reading your book.
Thanks, Kay - I think you'll resonate with the video I am releasing tomorrow. In it, I mention the 'dark' and the 'light' and "Which wolf are you going to feed?"
I love the question: What will serve my Highest Good? Bracing today for 2 weeks from now: seeing family at my son's HS graduation and after party at our home. Two major narcs: my father and brother who seek to continue their family narrative. Reflecting and listening this morning, a few thoughts ... listening to a Chris Voss, America's great hostage negotiator and it seems our lives have been hijacked by the narcs at an early age. I don't think we give ourselves enough credit for the changes we've already made, because the narcs are just so relentless. Voss speaks about "listening for the loss" that a hostage taker is trying to protect themselves from. Sad stuff. A few analogies occurred to me: living with Narcs + scapegoating is like a dog living with an invisible fence collar ... early on you get Zapped for being yourself until you learn to become submissive, learned helplessness, the message was "stay here, the rest of the world is ours"! I'm 57 and I would say I sweat profusely, unconsciously (C PTSD). There's a christian saying, "Be still and know I am God (radical acceptance)." This mornings insight ... It's like I'm being released from prison, yes, I'm no longer living in the prison, I am free, yet the PTSD prison experience remains in my mental / physical system. We were wrongly-accused, much like Jesus, who promises freedom and a better life (again, radical acceptance required). I'm a believer in recovery. Brief story: one of the unintended victims of Ted Kaczynski's bombs said to Ted during the victim-statement period: "You have nothing on me, Ted, I forgave you a long time ago." The victim never knew it was Ted, he knew he was innocent, wrongly-accused. Physical scars remain on his body, yet it was at this moment in the trial that the victim felt power return to his own body. Ted dropped his pen down for the first time. This shift of releasing old feelings of toxic shame from the body is possible. Here, and from the work of others: for me, my path includes Sandy Levey (Course in Miracles), Noah St. John (find better mirrors than the funhouse mirrors we were born with) to insights here (FSA / C-PTSD, videos, book) all of it. Grateful!
Thank you, Mike. A lot of good stuff here within your comment. I opt for ‘radical acceptance’ over ‘forgiveness’ for a few reasons which I’ll share later in a video. There is a Far Eastern (ancient, mystical) saying: “Do the clouds ask the sun for forgiveness for passing across its face?” It is what it is. The past is done. Once we stop wrestling with painful realities, we can go forth and co-create more life-enhancing realities today. BTW, I’m releasing new affirmations here for FSA recovery on June 10. Also, I posted in the community board yesterday (in the menu here on my channel’s page) on toning and regulating the Vagus Nerve - Important information to have when you are recovering from complex trauma. Be sure to check it out.
Your videos are saving my life. I am writing a book about my experience as a scapegoat now. I will be quoting you, and citing your book and videos.
Thank you for letting me know.
Yesssss!!Mama's back y'all😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃😃
I found your public service announcement and posted it on my Facebook. Thank you for your contributions on our behalf. We are the Keepers of Integrity.
Thank you for reminding us.💜
I've been the Estranged Scapegoat for decades (with appearances) and hilariously karma has gotten them all. My workaholic mom neglected us for a guy she thought had money (fake trust fund lay about) and ended up supporting him financially. (She is prisoner to his narcissistic ruling of the house that she worked to pay for.). I'm the only person who never misses a holiday to remind her that I love her and will continue until one of us is gone.
My sister went on and on projecting onto my daughter and me what a terrible mother I am, how lazy, blah blah. Her karma was that her daughter's children were taken by CPS, rights terminated, she wouldn't help her daughter and now they're gone forever. My daughter passed away and today I'm retired and homeschool my grandchildren. We take in $3K a month (as a base) while she works for Walmart at age 58.
My brother also slandered me for 50 years and now is so lonely I could hardly get off the phone with him, so I switched to texting as I'm pretty busy. (He's not my problem). He told me he was the Blacksheep and I said no, all of you guys slander me on the regular and I never slander you, so Black Sheep is MY title. (long lull, so I continued to describe it to his agony and the look of, "how does she know"). I was simply conversationally stating facts without emotion.
He called me "crazy" for so long that my last words to him were, "Whoever calls you crazy, signs your permission slip to act crazy" .... Dave Chappelle.
My stepfather said he didn't know if he trusted me at "his" house, ten years ago, so for Thanksgiving we get a hotel nearby so I can see my 2 authentic sisters. When asked why I don't go to the house I always calmly state, I'm just respecting my stepfather's wishes since he doesn't trust me in the house my mother built. Sometimes I see my mom, but he never comes with them which I like. (lol)
You Reep what you sow. We must clear the emotional fog in order to see it. Besides, Envy is a Compliment!! 🙂
Your comment and how you handle yourself with scapegoating family members is breathtakingly refreshing. Love that quote from Chapelle. Clearly, you have obtained the state of 'radical acceptance' I talk about in my book and elsewhere. Happy to have you here!
Thank you for sharing.
I’m so happy to see you back ! I resonated with this video on so many levels. I had a realization, that I had completely forgotten about. I have to say since watching your videos, I’m slowly remembering things from my childhood that I forgot about. If you asked me a year ago how my childhood was, I would’ve said GREAT ! and I believed it. I never had that negative narrative about myself growing up, or as an adult. Raising my kids was the happiest time in my life. Now that my kids are grown, I’m living in another state, I’m isolated, and dealing with my verbally abusive Dad, I realized I’m telling myself that narrative. I completely cut off my father and my sister. I’m ashamed to tell people about it in fear of them thinking I’m crazy. Now in my 50’s I’m feeling the effects of my childhood. Oh gosh I gave you a little book here. Take care, and seeing you back put a big smile 😃 on my face.
Thank you, Lenore. There are many significant brain changes that occur in the brain at mid-life. Anger, for example, can sometimes be easier to access. We also know that egoic defense mechanisms (including self-protective ones like repressing painful experiences too overwhelming to process) can start to break down at mid-life. This can lead to a 'mid-life' crisis, of sorts, but if one is aware of what is happening, it can provide optimal conditions for deep healing, including healing from childhood trauma.
Thank you ! In December I had just finished up a one year course by Rick Hanson. I believe it was that course that started the ball rolling. I started questioning myself. No memories had come up, but I was thinking A LOT about how me and my identical twin could be so different. A few months later your videos found me, (it was the right time) and it’s all coming together.
How profound if your truth is not accepted by your FOO.
Best to go no contact too regain your sense of worthyness.
This pervasive sense of not deserving love.
Has caused mental illness and self destructive behaviours.Always
Onwards and upwards.
Thank you Rebecca and hope you feel better.
This is
So true, Clarissa. And thanks!
i'm kinda happy that i know what's wrong with me at 19yo ...thank u
Sounds like you relate!
You are such a blessing ❤ thank you
Thank you and feel better soon!
Dear Ms Mandeville glad you are better..As I mentioned I did try to send a question through the link you suggested on your website just didn't work. Is there another way that I can send my question to you without writing it on here , please ? Thanks, Sam
Hi Sammir, I get too much spam if I post my email address here. I checked the contact link and it does work. Perhaps try on an incognito browser or different device.
This began for me 50 years ago, when I was daddy's girl, and mom decided to get rid of him. I suffered in silence for 50 years and when I went to write down the wrongs I cried for 2 days, and later did write my step dad to say he didn't walk into a situation where I was the bad kid- he stepped into a situation where my only protector was gone and I was left at the mercy of my abuser. She fed him what she wanted him to know, not the truth. I didn't want him to go to his grave believing all her lies. This approach is so much more helpful that simply identifying the abuser- because all sorts of otherwise good people fall into their lies, and the hurt suffered by the scapegoat can be lifelong.
Thank you for this - Yes, having a more expansive perspective can be healing in and of itself - And having a broader perspective does not mean one is dismissing the fact of abuse, or excusing the perpetrator of it.
Hi Rebecca glad your feeling better. So many of your lessons hit home I'm going on 59 and recently I've realized many defining moments when I was little that I knew something was different I still sustained a ton of collateral damage. But you've personally have given me a look a few of many layers. My growth was tested I ask my father my pics when I was little he brought them to me 2 days ago I noticed none of mo and i 1 of him and i all my old dance pics old girlfriends pics where gone except 4 and somone cut my girlfriends out of the pics he's standing right next to me I laughed and said why the hell Brenda cut all my pics (golden child) man the devil came out for a second till he saw my face herd my calm voice he shut down and was so uncomfortable he left. He's even tuning my daughter against me with his false guilt but I've issued stern warnings and it's difficult but I do believe more then ever and for the first time in my life I see why healing and maintaining a healthy self is impossible if you can't see and understand you and yourself in the disfunction. And I do see and have much more understanding because of you Rebecca Mandeville and your book. I've watched 100s of hrs of videos on UA-cam and your platform has personally been the missing link for me. 🙏.. The hardest work ever and just getting started. Thank you so much!
Thank you for letting me know, Jim. Precisely why I self-published: Traditional publishers wanted a 'canned' recovery/self-help book and I knew that was not what was needed by adult survivors of FSA. Comments like yours serve as further validation that I made the right decision to stick to my original vision.
No please don't ever quit on this vision!! I believe a ton of us are truly inspired and motivated with hard but truthful FACTS understanding which helps connect and correct me I'm wrong please. The silver lining I've realized this is where truth hope peace and many other missing parts of worth that were stolen can and will be dealt with one at a time reclaiming what was rightfully ours to begin with. And it's going to take a really long time and Rebecca Mandeville I know it's hard to former family Scapegoats to even feel needed respected little lone loved I sure hope you feel all of ours. I personally struggle with complements and validation and realized pretty much we all do and pretty sure these our things you've personally experienced, survived, thrived, now teaching with passion understanding. Rebecca you have our undivided attention. WE ♥ YOU!!
@@jimbyrne8281 You made my morning - And of course, you know that famous trope: "Write about what you know" (!) (New video just came out this morning on toxic shame and FSA - check it out when you can).
😘😇💛💥
Thank you Dr. Mandeville! I really needed to hear this today. So glad you’re feeling better and back with more helpful insights.
Hi Jen, glad this video offered you something you felt you needed. And I am also glad to be back on YT and feeling better!
Got the book today! I want to ask about my daughter who treats me like my family does. Its fairly new or so I thought. We used to be close but since I cut off my family my daughter has cut me off. Im shocked but in retrospect I can see how they have influenced her. I was a young single mum and relied on my family. The day after my daughter was born my mother said she was going for custody . I was 21.My parents used to babysit while I worked but I caught my mother telling my daughter to call her "Mum". I put my daughter in daycare after that but she was miserable and I was stupid and broke and let her go back. They would take her on vacations with my sister. A few years ago they all planned a cruise behind my back. I was upset with my family but not her although she was an adult. Last year she came over with my sister and basically they bullied me together and then my sister threatened me with the paramedics.( She learned that from my parents ) It was surreal . I totally froze. It is the worst to have my child(shes 29) join in with the family. I see her as surrounded by abusers ( including her father) and while Im grieving and devastated Im afraid for her. My sister doesn't have kids but she has money and she is getting older. I don't know how my daughter actually feels. She won't speak to me. Last month, after no contact, my sister sent me a nasty email and called my superintendent to see if I had killed myself .. ..but she's actually very likeable, funny and generous and that is how she fools people. Anyway would you do a video on how toxic families alienate the scapegoats children? They "golden child" them with vacations and mega Christmas and undermine authority and lie and threaten custody. My heart is broken...and so is my head. I just want a relationship with my daughter but I don't know how. Thanks Rebecca.
Glad you got the book! Indeed, the situation you describe is, in my mind, one of the most difficult experiences the FSA adult survivor who has children can face. There are no easy answers or solutions. I've had clients who discovered later (through their adult child) that this 'indoctrination' into the 'scapegoat narrative' began as early as the age of four, courtesy of the child's grandparent. It's quite a shocking discovery for the FSA adult survivor. It is actually a form of parental alienation, courtesy of the FSA target's scapegoating parent. And yes, I will do a video on this but there are few solutions. In the end, one must protect their emotional and mental health, which may mean accepting what might feel (understandably) unacceptable. Miracles do happen, however. I have seen adult children realize what has happened and they reach out to their scapegoated parent to share the indoctrination story, apologize, and ask for forgiveness.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse thank you so much Rebecca. For responding and for your understanding. People don't understand. They couldn't. If others can avoid the same trap though. I know I just have to get on and get healthy. I'm reading your book right now! It's a gift.💚
I've been no contact with my family. They called and text I told my mother I'm fine I told her I need time for myself to heal. She kept texting then she got my aunt her flying monkey to call then she called my ex husband saying she bought bookbags for my kids and told him my stepfather almost died. They're trying to get me to feel guilty for going no contact. They broke me so bad my whole life they told me I was crazy my mother told me she always knew something was wrong with me. I hated myself. I put up with physical and mental abuse from my husband. I'm really trying to heal now and they are coming full force to get me back in my role.
You may want to watch this video I released last week (if you haven't already): ua-cam.com/video/vPe-hrNO9FA/v-deo.html
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank-you, I will
I'm past the shame. I'm past the need to have my siblings in my life. I love and respect myself too much to allow them to continue to abuse me. It was bad enough having my father scapegoating me, but to have my older sister do it meant I needed to find a way to deal with it. Then I realized that not only was this older sister a narcissist, but my younger sister is a narcissist as well. My youngest sister doesnt really know me as I left home when she was eight and we never really communicated. I am sure that who she believes me to be has been shaped by the older narcissist as they are fairly close. My family had to make up a fantasy about me being crazy, vengeful, and a liar because I won't keep quiet abouth the abuse, incest, and scapegoating that has gone on in my family.
Prayers that you get well soon 🙏❤
Thank you Lynny, feeling good today!
I always take something from the videos you post. I'm going through my own process, one to long for a post. Having listened to three other competent people in your field, I feel your videos take me further along a journey I wish I long ago embarked. Although I believe it will be difficult, I know I have to read your book. But at the same time, reading your book I feel will help me place past life events were they belong. Take Care, and have a strong recovery from your illness.
Thank you for this ❤
You're welcome, Sarah!
Hi Ms Mandeville, what about the other damaging and false narrative about the scapegoat who is the victim of abuse further introducing another attack ( successuve attacks) to the childhood narrative by being portrayed as the one who is rightly blamed by the narcissist ( woman in my case whom i was sadly born to) and who then poisons all your relationships by building and continuing to falsify the account of what she is the architect of. I was both pleased that you speak of the false narrative re being defective as i recall that from my earliest years but what of all the poisonous and malicious lies and manipulation where the architect narcissist manages to recruit those who once claimed to love you and who suddenly dont even wish to give you tje opportunity of listening to your truth😢as they are put at gun point ( not literally but emotionally) to choose and decide it is in their emotional and or financial interest to side with the architect narcissist who is malcious , jealous, vengeful of someone she has borne and has no empathy for the suffering she has put you through by quoting everything she doesnt like but adding lies , distortion, poison and malice to her narrative. There seem to be multi narratives at work one about the scapegoat being defective and the other about the reasons offered to others to mask the murder ( not literally but ostracising and banishing) of the scapegoat from all their relationships that the architect narcissist can get their hands on. Please help and do another of your amazing and life saving podcasts on this . Many thanks, Sam
Hi Sam, indeed, there can be multiple false narratives woven around and within the 'core' scapegoat narrative. This can happen in both the narcissistic family system and the dysfunctional family system, but different forces will be driving it. Did you by chance read my book (Rejected, Shamed and Blamed) where I discuss this, including where I use the analogy of the Gordian Knot?
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Yours is the most lucid and insightful voice I've heard on the subject of family scapegoating.
Thank you, Dave. If you haven't yet read my book, 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed', you will likely want to. ("Write about what you know..." - !)
Sorry you were not feeling well! 😞
Great video, great information.👍
Thank you, John. I released a follow up to this video here (on toxic shame and the scapegoat narrative) this past Saturday - be sure to check it out.
This felt so validating and comforting listening to. I feel much better. Thank you❤. When you talk about this topic it feels so genuine and autenthic. I often have a hard time believing in my own experiences but listening to your videos make me more grounded in my truth.
You're welcome, Emma. And thank you for letting me know my videos are helping you to dig deeper into the truth.
Good book Thank you so much ❤❤❤
You're welcome, Warren. Glad you think so!
Self respect and kindness to self
Oh Rebecca! Sorry you're suffering with chest cold. Sending you lots of love and healing prayers. I resonate totally and completely!!!!🌹💕Feel better
Old video - all better now, thank you!
Distorted narrative is a big part of the abuse and it can seem impossible to overcome. I had two covert narcissistic parents. When I was 11ish, my father had started a business that was starting to fail and did eventually fail. Everyone was impressed with how well he was handling it. What they didn’t know was that I was taking the hit for the lost business.
In private moments, just between him and me, he was hissing in my face, veins bulging, that I was a failure, a coward, gutless, spineless, a jellyfish, a good-for-nothing, trash, garbage, etc. He laid those destructive words into the heart of me and I started to shatter. He also hit me in the face without bruising me and shoved me, threatening to “knock me into next week” etc.
To protect myself, I started to yell back at him and he claimed to people that I was the problem and that I was out of control and everyone believed him. My mother enabled his behavior and got her own digs in. My father went on acting this way toward me for the next decade and a half until a physical assault at the age of 25 when I had to let him go. My body wouldn’t let me near him anymore.
When I was a teen, he actually used our “sad” relationship to get his women friends’ sympathy. One of these ‘friends’ came up to me once to tell me how much my father loved me, how he just wanted us to get along and that he was so confused as to why we weren’t getting along. He was trying so hard, she told me.
I didn’t tell her the truth because I knew it wouldn’t matter and because I was loyal to my parents, my family. I didn’t tell my siblings about any of this either. They heard me yelling but not the cause of it. In later years when my siblings were adults in their 30s and 40s, I thought I could finally speak my truth but they didn’t want to hear it. My reward for keeping the secret for so long and waiting to tell it, was for them to think of me as a piece of you-know-what. I left the nuclear family unit too.
I was suicidal for most of my life. Not any more. Because of this community and discovering that the way my parents treated me had less to do with me and more with how they regulated themselves, I’m on my way to being free. Thank you very much.
Hi Lorna - There is so much in that comment that many FSA adult survivors will relate to - myself included. You summarize the FSA target's 'double bind' that I mention in this video very well, especially this part here: "I didn’t tell her the truth because I knew it wouldn’t matter and because I was loyal to my parents, my family. I didn’t tell my siblings about any of this either. They heard me yelling but not the cause of it. In later years when my siblings were adults in their 30s and 40s, I thought I could finally speak my truth but they didn’t want to hear it. My reward for keeping the secret for so long and waiting to tell it, was for them to think of me as a piece of you-know-what. I left the nuclear family unit too."
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you for bringing up and addressing these topics. It helps those of us battling disbelief.
You're welcome, Lorna. When you've lived through it (as I have), you KNOW it is real.
Dr. Rebecca, I am almost 75 now, is it too late for me to heal?I was scape goated realy realy bad, and still suffer from it daily
My experience is healing is possible at any age. You might take a look at my FSA survivor resource list and start with my introductory book on FSA, listed at the top, and go from there. familyscapegoathealing.substack.com/p/resources
I JUST learned something. Those false narratives, that “internal avatar” family members create? They will also create one for the abuser!
Bingo!!!
Thank you for doing these videos. I just found you today, and I've already watched to several of your videos. I've been on a bit of a recovery journey for the last few years, and your videos speak TO ME and are very helpful. So, again, thank you for sharing them!
You are so welcome. If this form of abuse resonates with you, you may also want to read my book on FSA, 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed'. Amazon and most book stores carry it internationally.
What about when the parent drains your energy and is the energy vampire parent who also is the perpetrator of the scapegoat. They drain the empath or HSP child of positive energy.
Definitely can happen. Good topic for a future video, I'll add it to my list.
Rebecca it is because of your videos I have gone from being clueless, to being armed with knowledge - I’m deeply thankful.
Could I ask a question please to all you lovely people?
Now I understand and have a name for what has gone on in my life, I’m struggling with how I view my 80 year old parents.
The only way I can describe it is, I feel like Dorothy in the wizard of Oz, when she pulls back the curtain and sees that there never was a supreme wizard. Just a regular person who can’t help her. Or in other words, the rug has been been pulled out from under my feet.
Whilst I’m grateful for the knowledge, understanding and validation, I’m struggling now that my narcissistic father has fallen from the pedestal.
I’m lost as to what I do with my feelings of disrespect. It’s like believing in God, then finding out he never existed.
Can anyone else relate? Thanks.
Good analogy - I use this analogy often in my practice when discussing narcissistic family members. You might do what Dorothy eventually did - return to your inner 'home' - your true self nature, and reconnect with your inner ground - your innate wholeness and your truth; I did a two-part video on this end of last month / beginning of this month.
Thank you for another great video on toxic shame:
Im 63. At 33 I read a book Heal the shame that binds you Jerald Kabalski .
Still in contact with NPD family.
Still in a church with dysfunctional people ( included myself ). So not ready to receive the message.
Now I am.
What I want to say about this kind of family system Shame is;
It sticks to every emerging need and want and thoughts about yourself like jam!
I have realised now that I simply have been unable to seperate the Shame from who I actually am!!!!
Like being wrapped in it.
Trapped.
Wow!!! It’s going to be a few long years whilst I tend to freeing my character from their (NPD behaviours ) !
So important to me - to develop the attitudes God holds dear-. I find that I need Hope and faith and a lot of His Love - to deal with the aftermaths. Thank you again for your almighty work
You're welcome. I use the analogy of being tarred and feathered in a few of my videos. Like jam, tar is sticky. The feathers are the family 'shame' projection (which ties into intergenerational trauma). If you feel ready to now heal, you will likely benefit from reading my introductory guide on FSA, 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed'.
Hi, I'm glad I've found your channel. I had to go no contact with my covert narc mom last year, next month will be a year. It is another thing to deal with the other family members and discover the family dynamic. Thanks for sharing all that precious information! :)
Glad you’re here - To further understand the insidious family dynamics likely at play, you may want to read my book, ‘Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed’, in addition to exploring my playlists here.
I dont consciously tell myself a story I just find that I am stuck in those emotions of noone loves me so I don't love them on a regular basis, I pull away from those closest to me (not the scapegoaters) and tell myself that story bc sitting in that place of retreat feels most comfortable to me. Sitting in the sorrow
Yes, it can feel strangely comfortable. You have some deep insight into what may be going on. This is why I often say that we must become willing to be uncomfortable at times during our recovery journey.
My family thinks I’m a narcissist who’s abusing my mother when it’s exactly the opposite. They’ve called me a narcissist to my face. They all say I don’t let them talk. They’re right. As soon as they start running their projective comments on me I stop them and push back. It was good for me to restate things and set the story straight for quite awhile on a ton of untruths about me. That’s how I found my voice, by pushing back. But now, years later it’s just exhausting. And it’s futile. They just do more to me when I show strength. My real strength is taking the high road, stopping the struggle, recognizing they are acting out of a primitive unaware self. The hardest part now is dealing with the trigger that happens whenever the projective comments occur. I don’t have a good handle on how to calm myself in the face of the injustice, character assassination. I feel annihilated.
That dynamic is known as DARVO, (Dr Jennifer Freyd), which stands for 'Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender'.
Thank you. Do you mean reversing who’s the abuser?
Yes, The perpetrator of the abuse 'reverses' who is the 'offender' and who is the 'victim' - making themselves into the victim. So the actual victim is victimized twice. Dr Freyd has published more than one article on her DARVO research, btw. They are available online for free.
This is very similar to my situation -from your first sentence on, so so familiar. I feel that I did, whenever possible for me, take the highest road I could muster for a long time. But rather than being known for that and the ways I've been helpful and present despite the false narratives about me that are constantly proven false, the false narrative actually picks up steam and I'm known for being combative and selfish - the polar opposite of what seems true to me. If I'm strong, honest, and able to defend myself or another I'm "combative" or always need to be right whereas when anyone else exhibits such a trait they are some sort of heroine. (This despite I tend to speak up using calmer rationality and others tend toward emotional outbursts that are often drinking related.) It's very important my truth not be heard and the louder I speak it, no matter how I speak it, the more I'm tortured.
So, my very sincere question is, who is telling you you should be able to calm yourself in the face of injustice and character assassination? I don't think that's you. You don't seem to be about propping up injustice. Your abusers are. Expecting your calm silence is just another abuse. In healthy situations we have a right and responsibility to stand up for ourselves and we're even encouraged to do so. I once felt I was somehow being my truest self when I could remain calm and centered in the middle of obvious wrongs, but I think better to feel calm and centered where you genuinely feel calm and centered and leave what doesn't work. I've spoken up in my defense, in the defense of others, and with compassion about the fact that some need help. But, I'm tired of my perspective, my very soul, being assaulted, even villainized, as a result. So, whatever gets me out of that is the priority even though it means going no contact with a family who I have in fact, at times, shared joy with. There is a lot of joy in the world that doesn't come tied to abuse. And frankly, I'm not even sure how much the joy was truly shared.
I have no idea what is best for you but I see you and your situation because I've been there/am there. I just wonder if you might benefit from asking more of the people you choose to be around and less of yourself. Best of luck!!! Let's exchange more comments if you feel like it. ❤
@@MF-my3db I just saw what you wrote. I’m sorry you have had to go through this. I hope you are doing much better now. I’ve had no contact with my siblings for several months. I have my husband and my friends and I’m too busy working and supporting my parents care to notice the isolation. I suspect I’ll miss the family life we had, mainly the young people -nieces and nephews. But unless one of my siblings came to me aware and willing to look at their part in why we have problems, they won’t have a relationship with me anymore. I guess I’ll see them at a funeral one day. Thank you for taking the time to share this.
I remember trying to explain the way I felt to my husband. I would tell him I am not equal to the average human being. I am inferior. No amount of perceived successes or good deeds could redeem me because I am fatally flawed. I also have contemplated suicide on multiple occasions. It baffles him. He cannot understand. I have told myself I cannot even succeed at that because I am too frightened to go through with it. I have chased perfection my whole life. In college, four A’s and one B was failure. I couldn’t enjoy the A’s. And since some of the A’s were a result of 90% total, they still fell short of 100% . I felt like a failure. I knew deep down I wasn’t making sense…something inside told me. But, I couldn’t shake the failure. I also told myself that it was a fluke. That somehow my good grades weren’t equivalent to other people’s. I only have my 2 year degree. Going back would be so stressful because I put so much pressure on myself. I am hoping to move beyond that and go back and finish what I started. I am better than I used to be. I am not as hard on myself and I m understanding now that I’m not innately damaged and flawed as I was led to believe.
Good to hear you are being more gentle with yourself.
I'm having a very hard time reconciling how this is a problem in our brains if we have no awareness of what's going on. So many times i was very optimistic and kind only to be blindsided by how others react in such abnormal and shockingly cruel ways for no reason. I can't see this as as anything other than a social evil that i did not create. I didn't internalize the narrative because i didn't know about it...i was completely neglected.. of course it's depressing being trapped by people living lies but I can't believe this is a "problem" with MY brain, though they sure are trying to make me act like it is! I guess in time truth will reveal itself and they will all be put to shame. Frustrating there's literally nothing i can do about it in the mean time.. apparently it's just a battle of edurance.
Complex trauma and being the repository of systemic projections within one's family (being a human movie screen, objectified, devalued, and dehumanized) does affect the brain. You may not have read my book yet (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed). This will explain in more detail how false narratives impact a child growing up in a narcissistic or dysfunctional family system. And yes, the brain can heal, including via trauma-informed therapy that addresses complex trauma systems and triggering.
What is serving me most for the past year or so is sharing my experience with others, via a platform such as yours, in hopes that it may in some way help others. So while getting these things off my chest I may also indirectly help others who can relate. I started by researching Narcissism but it didn't quite fully fit what I've been through. It was not until I came across your channel that I could so fully identify what had happened to me over the years. Listening to a professional with such extensive study in this area helps immensely. Thank you.
Good to hear. If this is new to you (my research on what I named 'family scapegoating abuse' - or FSA - you may want to read my book, 'Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed'.
Rebecca, do you plan on talking about repressed memories as a topic itself? As in articles or videos about it? From reading the comments, it seems to me that at the beginning of their realization about the FSA they suffered, victims go through a period of "remembering" those repressed memories. That's a very important topic for me - I suspect it is for many other SG survivors as well. I never understood the strong rejection many of my older male colleagues (specifically the bullies, but I didn't know it then) expressed about the issue of repressed memories. I remember two of them mentioning "opportunistic therapists" supporting claims about repressed memories in divorce courts. "So unfair", because so many "good men and women" were punished because of that. It was rabid - makes me think there is more to them than I imagined.
Excellent idea for a video topic. I am out on medical leave but am adding it to my list; this is something I also plan to address in my next book, btw, where I will focus on what I named 'family scapegoat trauma' (FST).
Heads up about what you will probably face from peers, although I suspect you are very much aware of. I took a longitudinal look at the literature on "repressed memories", "recovered memories", and dissociative amnesia. There is a spike of published attacks against psych professionals and researchers supporting abused patients that ended up in court in the late 90s. Scientometric analysis suggests that there was sound empirically based research trying to counter that conservative narrative (I call them "gatekeepers of the status quo"). Guess what: it is spiking again. I suspect (and even predict) that as your research and the research from other scientists working in any FST approach to trauma are making an impact - for the good and for the bad. The gatekeepers of the status quo within the psych fields are rising again. That's expected. Society counts on them to defend the most important safeguard institution of oppressive social structures: the nuclear family. I think this is going to be an interesting fight. And you will be at the core of it. It's a 30 year maturation period for this particular controversy to re-emerge. This is one article that called my attention to this. It's from 2023: doi.org/10.1111/tops.12638
Thank you so much for your videos. You popped up on my feed a few days ago when I needed this advice the most. I have a difficult decision to make about whether or not to go no contact with members of my family; I'm sure there are many people also facing this decision. Seeing these people can be a pleasant experience or highly toxic. I will try to cut contact gradually.
Glad you're here. You can search on the word 'contact' on the home page of my channel here to bring up a couple of videos I've done on this topic, including this one here: ua-cam.com/video/aUqSSIMRUQE/v-deo.html
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thanks very much
I have always had this issue with my family, to them I was always weird, crazy, lazy, etc. Today my narc mom told me that she liked me because I was ‘grateful’ which actually meant that she only liked me because I was settling. And actually also told me that before I used to be (that’s how she perceived me) ungrateful. Which is totally not true, I just saw through their bs and wanted better for myself.
These dynamics can be so very complicated. Sounds like you have gained some clarity as to what was actually going on.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Yes, and your video helped a ton to realize that it is just another (of many) false narrative.
Thank you so much! It all makes sense to me!
Glad it was helpful!
This is another good video describing what I have been enduring all my life with family members. I have drawn back from them and avoided as much as possible because they are not friends, they are enemies because they have only my ruin in mind. Of course they would deny it and are covertly rude and mean for no good reason. If I were to confront them they would deny everything. I only confronted them one time each as they were rude and was met with rage and worse gossiping. I learned many years ago the only solution is to avoid them completely.
Sadly, this is often the case in these highly defensive, 'closed', dysfunctional family systems. Here's a resource list I put together for adult survivors of FSA in case you are looking for more support: www.scapegoatrecovery.com/updated-fsa-recovery-resources-2023/
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you!
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The narrative pushed on the scapegoated child is you are everything the parent doesn't like in their own self and they deny they have this trait. It can be garbage the parent learned from their own dysfunctional upbringing. Any parent that scapegoats their kid has problems of their own they need to work on from their own past. When you grow up and leave home you may think you are leaving your troubles behind. You can take the scapegoat out of the family but taking the family narrative out of the scapegoated persons head is another matter. Even if you go no contact with your parents the warped messages they gave you for years are still recorded in your brain somewhere.
Yes, in the field of Family Systems this is known as the pathological Family Projective Identification Process.
I wish I would have known all this 40 years ago. I spent years of my life feeling bad and down on myself because I believed the projections. @@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse
You, me, and most everyone here. You are not alone.
TRUTH
Thank you Rebecca. The carnival analogy is very helpful. I was a child when I visited the Fun House in the Carnival on our annual school trip about 10 years old. The distortions in the mirror is what you actually see when you look in the mirror and that is all the mirrors in different ways in the Fun House. The Fun House itself….
Which, when it is an analogy for a dysfunctional or narcissistic family that scapegoats, is not so fun...
I'm so glad you're feeling better, Rebecca! Question for anyone: A central part of the false narrative that I experienced was the accusation that when there has been a family conflict or need for planning communications, my emails were too long and far too great a burden on others. Others' pride themselves on sharing a single sentence or two - stating what they want with no context or interest in another's ideas or situation. Where I to take this approach, I'd be ignored. My responses were indeed typically longer because I answered other people's questions, acknowledged their perspectives, and justified my thinking with logic, information, evidence, whatever seemed pertinent. At least half of the content would not be about me. For all this, I was considered selfish while their approach was exalted; they were/are the good family members. The story is that they are busy, more hard working than me; they have no time - hours spent on facebook or binge watching tv notwithstanding. Even when my communications/information solved significant problems, I was just an irritation and received no credit for my efforts. I'm just wondering...is the email narrative familiar?
Thanks, and this is a great question. One thought I have: At times this can also be related to cultural norms (family culture as well as any immigration within the past few generations from another country) which then influence how direct or non-direct communication and/or expressing emotion is viewed / received (e.g., highly expressive cultures versus more reserved cultures). If one goes outside of these cultural norms, perhaps due to having done work in therapy, etc, it can make others in the family uncomfortable. It is why cultural norms / expectations are two of the dynamics I invite clients to explore, but of course, this is not always applicable, nor is it an 'excuse' for hurtful or dismissive responses from family members.
@@beyondfamilyscapegoatingabuse Thank you. This could sure be a factor. In our family culture, possibly related to the WW2 era my parents were raised in and probably also the dysfunction of parents who didn't want to, or weren't able to, deal with their children's' problems, it was considered brave and honorable to keep problems to oneself - much higher even than to attempt any kind of compassionate intervention. Although lip service was made to the value of directly solving and confronting problems, actual appreciation, especially when said problems related to dysfunction, was not the reality - so that was confusing. So, in part, my ways resulted from listening to my parents state what they valued even if they didn't act on those values. 🤷♀It's possible my siblings listened less and mirrored more and that served them in some ways. So another question: Is there any evidence the brains of scapegoats share common neurology, not just trauma but their normal function? As I read these comments people tend to think like me more than, say, my siblings or even folks at large. Of course this could be nature or lack of nurture.
There is so little research as it is on what I named 'family scapegoating abuse' (as evidenced by the very fact I had to give it a name); there is research that has been done on the classic 'Identified Patient' but there was not as much information available then on complex trauma (if any, given this research began in the 1970's within the field of Family Systems). It may be some of Dr Jennifer Freyd's students (or former students) might look into this (some have contacted me regarding my work on family betrayal and scapegoating); certainly, this would make for a very important and crucial dissertation or research topic!