Completely changed my mind after the high gain section, the Guvnor and the Sidewinder were great up until then. But the Red Back is definatley the overall winner and, without doubt, the best high gain sound. Great content as always guys :)
There's a lot of love for the Redback.... I have to admit, although I always saw a certain amount of quality in it, I'm liking it more and more with every situation we put it in.
Oh you gotta try a Governor in person though…they’re basically like the V30 thing but done way better. It’s an exceptionally good speaker for high-gain.
I really enjoyed this shootout. Would love to see you guys testing out more eminence stuff and also WGS. Deciding on a speaker is so hard as we are spoilt for choice... living in the golden age of speakers!
Thanks Josh. I'm working on getting some Eminence and WGS speakers in, although we only stock Celestions I don't want our channel just to be about Celestions.
@@ZillaCabs The thickboy here didn't sound organic it sounded like dogshit compared to the EV. The speaker which DOES warrant use opposed to a 12L is the Eminence Legend EM12 which I also own. Less bassy but somewhat similar sound that is appealing to the ear... a little more sparkly and a bit lighter and cheaper. Thickboy was just meh. To do fair AB you need to play the same guitar lines... maybe you should use a looper? When you play different lines in different registers there is no fair comparison. ua-cam.com/video/EXMy329TVts/v-deo.html
I’ve got the Organic Timbre (now Overtonez Thick Boy) in a 1x12 Mesa cab. Normally playing a Les Paul into a THD univalve. It’s amazing. Not boxy. Not fizzy. Couldn’t be happier.
First of all, thank you for your demonstration. I worked for EV when these speakers first hit the market. Yes, they are heavy. Efficiency is EV game. Those were designed to be accurate and efficient. They used aluminum ribbon, ridge wound, voice coils, which are a much more sensitive field than conventional round wire stacked voice coils. EV speakers are capable of handling 6db peaks which 400 watts for that 100RMS rated. I truly like EV, not just because I worked there, but because they are great. Each time Eric Clapton got an alternate Fender 2X12 amp, His equipment manager would have our lab, 'verify' the two units we shipped to be installed in his amp.
12L is rated 200w RMA not 100 man.... I also love EV speakers. The thickboy here didn't sound organic it sounded like dogshit compared to the EV. The speaker which DOES warrant use opposed to a 12L is the Eminence Legend EM12 which I also own. Less bassy but somewhat similar sound that is appealing to the ear... a little more sparkly and a bit lighter. Thickboy was just dull. ua-cam.com/video/EXMy329TVts/v-deo.html
I have a katana artist 1x12 combo that I have done some speaker swapping in and it being a 100w amp meant that I was swapping 100+ Watt speakers. I tried the redback and really wanted to like it but it was just a bit too dark for my liking. I found that I had to push it really hard to get a nice high gain sparkle out of it. The low end handling was outstanding though. I also tried my EVM 12L Classic and it has something going on in the mid range like a nasally sound that I absolutely cannot dial out but it works better in bigger cabs. Honestly the factory 100w waza speaker just nails it. I'd love to hear you guys' opinion on that. They're expensive speakers but in my experience, for crunch and high gain, they're outstanding.
Bought the evm 12L speaker two days ago from a local music shop. I had no idea what this speaker was and I thought I was being ripped off or something. I put the speaker in my orange cabinet and it’s AMAZING 🤩🤩 running it with an Orange Crush pro 120 head and a TH30
Not really speaker related but the input jack on my Zilla Fatboy 212 cab kept pushing the speaker cable out due to the internal pressure. I ended up fitting a locking jack socket which solved the problem. Is this common, if so, why don't cabs come standard with locking input jack? Love your cabs by the way. I have a 112 as well as as the 212 Fatboy.
Hi, it's not that common but locking jacks will solve that.... most people actually don't know how to use locking jacks and often end up pulling the lead right through. With the jack, when did you buy the cab? We switched to cliff jacks a couple of years ago which are better for that... I hope its solved for you now.
The ev is always such a great sounding speaker, I'm always expected not to like it being such a fan of more lofi low wattage speakers but it is just rightly balanced, open and sweet clean while super clean sounding and balanced and smooth under gain without sounding boring.
Yeah I love it too, I always have fun playing it. It's not my go to speaker too, but I do love plugging them in. I wish I played a bit more strat as that is where I think they really sing.
I own already a organic timbre and love it. But this Celestion BN-12 300s sounds pretty awesome, too. Do you think this 2 speakers would be a goog choice for a 2x12 cab?
ooh that would be a really interesting mix. I'm not sure I;ve played the too in a single cab before... and there may be slight sensitivity issues but I reckon it would all sound good though.
@@ZillaCabs Thank you for your reply. I love the organic timbre. 😁 At the moment I play it in a Tl806. At the moment I'm thinking about combining it with Evm 12l classic, evm black label, or the BN-12. My amp is a pushed Marshall 2525h.
I'm actually about to buy a super crush 100 combo. They come stock with a red back. I was looking at neodymium speakers to see if I could shave some weight off it and the copperback was the only thing I really found and it was a let down. Everyone raves about the EVMS and I would agree the clips all sound great but that would add a significant amount of weight. The bn12 is probably the clear choice for me. It would shave 6 lb off and I think I could confidently use the super crush as a bass amp as well. The redback does however sound the best and I'll prolly never swap it out. But this video definitely cleared things up and gave me lots of options.
Hi Dennis, it should be the guitar speaker in this version. Until this video I didn't realise there were three types, it seems there was a guitar, bass and PA style speaker. Although we couldn't find part numbers or it written on the speaker we looked at the different cones and it appeared to be the guitar version that we were using.
After all these years the EV still sounded the best. Crisp, clean and open. The sidewinder and copper back were horrible. If using a JTM45 at bedroom levels what would you recommend thats similar to the EV but low wattage?
The copperback has a much wider frequency range than the other speakers, so you often need to adjust the EQ a little when switching back and forth between other speakers with a narrower frequency ranges. Otherwise it can sound more brittle and brassy at the same time. But once you get the EQ dialed in for the copperback, oh my God do they sound amazing.
Redbacks. Sound pretty close to a Altec speaker I’m familiar with I like the harmonics and the punch from the Vid sounded good to my ears I just purchased some a few minutes ago will see what a side by side comparison says and the sounds also liked the EV12L punchy might get one of those soon to for a1X12 cab really liked the cleans and was surprised of how good it sounded distorted I would use any of them but if I was in the market definitely redback and EV’s
Thanks for the comparison - quite informative! If I might make a suggestion in order to compare the speakers a little easier for the audience: perhaps make an initial guitar loop that can be played back with each speaker - this way we could more easily compare individual speaker tones without trying to pick out the tone between the differing playing styles and neck positions. Also, I did not find the High Gain/Quick Changes all that useful as it was not really possible to compare the different speakers via the time codes of the video. Other than that, a great, informative video. :)
that's a really good question. Personally I think they work with anything I;ve ever thrown at them..... they may not do what you necesserily want, but I tend to find if you are open to getting new nd different sounds then you'll get something really good. I think we're going to start messing around with a few videos like that. Thanks for watching.
@@benjaminaristotleboes3157 What do you mean sorry? Think the general rule of thumb is (for tube amps) 1.5 x the wattage of the amp. However the AC15 has an alnico blue so go figure. I had an Eminence swamp thing (150watt) in my Bugera V22 and sounded stiff, the alnico cream in there now is magic at 90watts.
The EVM sounds great. But im use to hearing an unpleasant midrange from this speakse that im not hearing from this clip, which is why I love it. Does this mean that ill have to search for an early 80s model to enjoy the tone that im hearinf from this clip? Great clip!
EV12L just sounds so transparent, like fresh water. Organic Timber dirty was the best. it is difficult however to make very clear comparisons because of the different ranges that you play among the different speakers. For some of them you seem to feel the bass response more and you play more in the lower register and I was looking to hearing how the other speakers would respond in the lower register primarily. I think lower register notes are just more revealing about overall speaker character. You can hear the highs and the meds filling in. Or I would’ve liked some nice open cowboy chords for each speaker in addition to some of the riffing farther up the neck. but I’m being difficult. I really appreciated what you did here. The red back is a familiar flavor that I like, and through the whole thing it was between the EV and the red back. I think I lean towards the EV. Just not sure I want to heft it around.
I liked all except the Copperback and the Sidewinder…the two snake speakers. The Copperback is one of those speaker I desperately want to like, but in every demo, they seem to have too many weird dips/spikes that just don’t sit well. add to that the lacking of low end. On the other hand….I’m about to grab one of those BN12s! Not only did the sound get me, but I love it on paper too….50hz-4000kHz? 4.4lbs AND 99dB sensitivity?!What’s not to love about those specs?! Plus I love dark speakers-where you can just throw a mic dead center on the cap and it’ll sound GOOD; you don’t have to rip your hair out trying to find the sweet spot.
Really like the OT, it sounds smoother, rounder and doesn't have that treble spike like the EVM12L. What do the mids sound like in the room between the EV and OT?
Hi Richard, I would go for whatever you like the sound of tonally, 5 watts is enough to get speakers moving, having the lower powered amp just opens up a wider selection of speakers (in my opinion). What kind of music do you play?
I don't play single coils all that much but I tend to find it can sound great. It's not as forgiving as some speakers can be but I guess single coils are often used for cleaner playing and the EVs do that really well.
I have five Strats with different types of Pups and a large collection of cabinets and speakers and i like the EV 12 L clean Tone very much. I personally think as a result of testing an hearing that every Strat with it,s PU,s has a Speaker that matches with her sond the best. Lipstick with one specific Speaker , Standard PU,s with that Speaker and Humbucking Single Coil size PU,s with another Speaker. assumed the Amp stays the same. In my personal opinion and experience, every guitar has that one speaker that matches best. With the Amplification you can do the fine tuning of your clean tone. remember, i talk clean tone all the time. When you have found your perfect match between Strat and Speaker, you can have 3 or more different Pre Amp Pedals in front of your Poweramp and you have a nice variation in many ( 3 or more maybe ? ) different clean tones . this is very satisfying and i am very happy with my collection. :)
The T3865 (S12 150 CE) that is test here is the bass/keyboard version of the sidewinder (check the celestion code). The guitare (lead) version is the T3771 (S12 150 PE) and it sound REALLY better in hi-gain mode.
I figured that was the case, that speaker was actually recommended to us by a few people. I would like to get my hands on the lead version as there are so many good guitarists I know that say positive things.
The EV is a cool speaker... I think a lot of people are surprised by the BN12-300S, its a cool speaker to pull out of the hat as an option. Thanks for watching.
I have the Celestion Redback. I like it. I have the EVM 12l that came in a 90s carvin amp. that speaker is great. and Carvin HE12 High energy 150 w speakers those are my favorite high power speaker. That Copperback was like fingernails on a chalkboard during high gain. I would say the EVM 12l sounded best in this video.
Why is the Governor in this shoot out? This is supposed to be for high power speakers (150w+ according to the video graphic). It sounds good, but it's only 75w (according to Eminence).
Great vid but I found it really strange. My Sidewinders sound nothing like yours under high gain at all. I also use evm12ls, black label evm12l and Redbacks. Love them all but I record with my sidewinders.
Thanks for saying that, I know some great players who love them, the odd thing is our speaker doesn't sound broken. I know there are a few different sidewinder speakers but from a little research I am sure this is the guitar speaker. If I get a chance to play another I will, just to see. Thanks for the input.
If they used the T3865 like on the picture, then it was the bass version, cloth edge. T3771 (8 Ohm) and T3772 (16 Ohm) would be the guitar (paper edge) versions.
@@martins.498 I think you're right, mine is a T3771 and it sounds much less harsh than theirs. Paired with a G12h100 in 2X12 I have an ultra heavy and dynamic hi-gain sound with top-end not aggressive or tiring (trash, nu-metal and metalcore).
I prefer the EV12 by far cause it's what a speaker should be - clean, open, unrestricted and adds almost nothing to the sound of the guitar+amp. On that note, I really like the others as well, some have an awesome sound, but that's the problem in itself - if you want more mids or bass, you can add it using the amp tone controls or the guitar. If the speaker already has a "buil-in" mids hump or a certain tone, it's not so easy to get rid of it WHEN YOU WANT TO. It's easier to add something to the sound when you have an EV12, but cutting that Celestion BN12 and Sidewinder EQ will certainly be a task. That takes away nothing from them, they are great speakers, but more in the line of the "speaker with a certain tone" concept. An EV12 is an all-rounder.
It sounds like your amp/guitar combination is incredibly bright and twangy on overdriven tones, so a dark boxy sounding speaker like the Redback is going to marry well with it.
Despite being dark I felt the Overtone had some high end fizz happening with high gain. Should pair well with its bro evm12l though. The governor had a really nice presence feel. The Celestion Red seems overall pretty well balanced, what I liked mostly. Wonder how it coops with g12h creamback?
You know I bet the EV and Overtone would sound great together, maybe we'll have to mix the audio and see how that works... and we were asked about mixing speakers with the redback the otherday, something we haven't done much of at all... my gut feeling was the H creamback would be great with it.
Great Comparison!!! If I was using a solid state amp or modeling, I would definitely prefer the thicker punchier sound of the EV/Organic speakers to try to revive some of the tube sound. The redback sounds good as well but to my ears not a nice as the EV. Maybe even the Back Label for to really cut the edginess of a solid state amp or modeler.
I’ve been using the EV 12l since 89. If there’s a better all rounder, I haven’t heard it. Currently have a couple red backs. They’re good but lack any real character and don’t even compare to the 12l
I'm not sure your Celestion Sidewinder is functioning well.. this weekend we opened up my father-in-law's 2x12, a great sounding cab we have recorded a good number of songs with over the years.. we found two Sidewinders (T37 72). The cab is nicely balanced and doesn't sound harsh or nasal with high gain sounds as your one does. Incidentally he bought the cab for £30 off Ebay "loaded with 150W Celestions" about a decade ago.. we were inspired to have a peek at the speakers by this video as I didn't believe he had 150W Celestions in such a cheap cab.
The T3865 (S12 150 CE) that is test here is the bass/keyboard version of the sidewinder (check the celestion code). The guitare (lead) version is the T3771 (S12 150 PE) and it sound REALLY better in hi-gain mode.
The sidewinder sounded great clean, it actually stood out to me while listening to it blind. For dirty and distorted the sidewinder seriously lacked girth and body. Great video as always!
The T3865 (S12 150 CE) that is test here is the bass/keyboard version of the sidewinder (check the celestion code). The guitare (lead) version is the T3771 (S12 150 PE) and it sound REALLY better in hi-gain mode.
The EV has 600 hZ, 1 kHz and, above all, a huge 4kHz peak which are not so common in guitar speakers, especially the latter one, but turn out to be the most useful. It also falls slower after that last peak across the highs, thus it sounds very open, especially compared to other HiFi drivers used as guitar speakers- fyi, Eminence's EM 12 is darker, and EM 12 N and Delta Pro 12 A even more dark. I liked them all, in most applications. The Governor definitely has its place. If you want something between the Governor and the EV, check the CV75 or Tonker. CV75 has less aggressive but more extended upper mids and highs than the Governor. Thus sounding more HiFi. I have tested a CV75 a to b to an original EV and almost couldn't tell which is which- they were not in identical cabs though, but those two left me the most surprised that evening (and many cool original speakers were laying around, an original V30s, blackbacks, original T75s, Sidewinders, Fanes and a lot more). Tonker is even mellower. The Redback is the epitome of "HiFi high wattage meets guitar oriented driver" has the best of both worlds. The Sidewinders are great too The Organic Timbre performed excellently. I don't have experience with the Copperback or the BN, but I would like to.
To be honest, I'm really not a big fan of the copperback, I think its possibly the weakest link in the Celestion range. If I wanted to use a high powered neo speaker I'd probably go for the BN12-300S. Some people do like the Copperback though
Sidewinder All The Way!!! Try a 4x12 Sidewinder cab -T3771 paper edge surrounds & T3865 cloth edge surrounds. One 4x12 cab of each. Together one or two amps. Speed Extreme Metal. - no slow motion chords. You will be amazed at the speed of your
Great stuff lads, keep them coming! I think Celestion has really hit it out of the park with the Redback.. I'd still like to hear it side by side with it's lower wattage counterparts, like the Greenback or the Heritage 30, just to see how much the Redback is sacrificing in order to manage its huge power rating. And lets see if I can save up some money to order a Fatboy with white tolex to match my white Engl Blackmore. Corona isn't helping. Cheers!
Thanks Jaime. I think that is a great idea for a video, Redback vs lower powered and industry standard speakers... always up for making a Fatboy in white ;)
Thank you for putting this together. I love the EV. It just presented so perfectly to my ear. Just not prepared to add 10 pounds to my rig... sooo... So I ordered the Redback on the advice here and should have it within a week.. It will be used for Marshall derivative tones in a 1x12 that seem to be calling for a rolled off greenback type. Fingers crossed. The Mesa Stilleto is an interesting choice of a testbed amp. I have a few Mesa amps that probably have a Stilleto-ish circuit. Btw - with some circuits the Jensen Raptor presents like many of the better half of those demoed here. Kind of a EV meets GB large Dustcap tone tending more to smooth than most celestions. Would love to hear it in a shootout somewhere as there are very few demos of it.
I'm gonna get the copperbacks. I think they'll sound perfect with my blackbird preamp, Carvin ts100 and EMG equipped guitar. I think they'll bring out the definition of my Eventide effects too.
Interesting that you chose The Governor to represent Eminence in this comparison, They make a ton of speakers with a higher power rating. I'm guessing that's the only model you had laying around. The EM12 and EM12n would be direct competitors with the EV. Even the Texas Heat is 150 watts.
Just for reference, I am driving the above mentioned speakers with an equivalent of a Mesa 2:90, specifically a simal- satellite, with the EVM, as the dummy, and an Electradyne on a wide body 1/12 cab with the Sidewinder to generate the tone (usually blue channel with a clean boost.) I have a graphic right before the power stages to match the cabs, and it sounds close enough to where it doesn't throw the tone.
I kind of know what you mean there, I think Joe used the Marshall SLP on this, I would normally pull the bass back a little from what Joe does but I still think he gets some great sounds on that amp.
@@ZillaCabs It's kindy tricky because i made a vid and it sounded too trebly so i erased it but i used my cell that was probably the main problem. Might get a Senhauser because i hear they're very good and there just isn't enough vids on either speaker i have. WGS Reaper 30 and Eminence D12V8 Diezel custom which has 0 vids i think. High gain...
The OT speaker had so much more character than the EV. All the speakers were nice clean sounding, The EV and Sidewinder being my least favorite in that department. Shocking cause I used Sidewinders for years! Governor did not have the fullness of any of the speakers dirty but again it’s the least powerful outta them all. OT and Red Back just killed it all around.
Avatar cabs? We make Zilla cabs I'm not sure why we would use their cabs in our videos. They are cool cabs for sure but not good enough for us to demo their cabs over ours ;)
these videos would be amazing if they actually did the high gain right. Leaving it on each speaker for a split second so you dont even have time to listen to how it sounds. If you want to switch back and for at least leave it on each speaker for 3-5 seconds before switching.
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The EV really holds its own !! The Governor was really nice!
The EV is a great speaker, I think if you want that sound there aren't many other speakers that do what it does.
Completely changed my mind after the high gain section, the Guvnor and the Sidewinder were great up until then.
But the Red Back is definatley the overall winner and, without doubt, the best high gain sound.
Great content as always guys :)
There's a lot of love for the Redback.... I have to admit, although I always saw a certain amount of quality in it, I'm liking it more and more with every situation we put it in.
@@ZillaCabs Shame they're pretty expensive though :(
Oh you gotta try a Governor in person though…they’re basically like the V30 thing but done way better. It’s an exceptionally good speaker for high-gain.
I really enjoyed this shootout. Would love to see you guys testing out more eminence stuff and also WGS. Deciding on a speaker is so hard as we are spoilt for choice... living in the golden age of speakers!
Thanks Josh. I'm working on getting some Eminence and WGS speakers in, although we only stock Celestions I don't want our channel just to be about Celestions.
@@ZillaCabs The thickboy here didn't sound organic it sounded like dogshit compared to the EV. The speaker which DOES warrant use opposed to a 12L is the Eminence Legend EM12 which I also own. Less bassy but somewhat similar sound that is appealing to the ear... a little more sparkly and a bit lighter and cheaper. Thickboy was just meh. To do fair AB you need to play the same guitar lines... maybe you should use a looper? When you play different lines in different registers there is no fair comparison. ua-cam.com/video/EXMy329TVts/v-deo.html
I have 8 WGS speakers - they rock!
Mix them all I don't care each one is different several ohms 4 8 and 16 then play guitar as a joke right
@@ZillaCabsko in
Great video! I've been using EVMs since the '70s but also really enjoyed the Redback!
When that Redback driven tone kicks in… the competition really begins: 20:39 EVM-12L is a tough champ to dethrone, but the Redback does bring it.
I’ve got the Organic Timbre (now Overtonez Thick Boy) in a 1x12 Mesa cab. Normally playing a Les Paul into a THD univalve. It’s amazing. Not boxy. Not fizzy. Couldn’t be happier.
Great speaker, both versions.
First of all, thank you for your demonstration. I worked for EV when these speakers first hit the market. Yes, they are heavy. Efficiency is EV game. Those were designed to be accurate and efficient. They used aluminum ribbon, ridge wound, voice coils, which are a much more sensitive field than conventional round wire stacked voice coils. EV speakers are capable of handling 6db peaks which 400 watts for that 100RMS rated.
I truly like EV, not just because I worked there, but because they are great. Each time Eric Clapton got an alternate Fender 2X12 amp, His equipment manager would have our lab, 'verify' the two units we shipped to be installed in his amp.
12L is rated 200w RMA not 100 man.... I also love EV speakers. The thickboy here didn't sound organic it sounded like dogshit compared to the EV. The speaker which DOES warrant use opposed to a 12L is the Eminence Legend EM12 which I also own. Less bassy but somewhat similar sound that is appealing to the ear... a little more sparkly and a bit lighter. Thickboy was just dull. ua-cam.com/video/EXMy329TVts/v-deo.html
Thanks for the comment. Can you tell something interesting about BL signature?
Really liked the balance and tones of THE GOVERNOR (surprisngly).
I have to say it isn't my first choice speaker but it has certain qualities that a lot of people love and I can see why. Thanks for watching.
it's kind of Eminence's take on the V30 but ended up becoming a very different sounding speaker.
I have a katana artist 1x12 combo that I have done some speaker swapping in and it being a 100w amp meant that I was swapping 100+ Watt speakers.
I tried the redback and really wanted to like it but it was just a bit too dark for my liking. I found that I had to push it really hard to get a nice high gain sparkle out of it. The low end handling was outstanding though.
I also tried my EVM 12L Classic and it has something going on in the mid range like a nasally sound that I absolutely cannot dial out but it works better in bigger cabs.
Honestly the factory 100w waza speaker just nails it. I'd love to hear you guys' opinion on that. They're expensive speakers but in my experience, for crunch and high gain, they're outstanding.
Talking intro 0:00
CLEAN EVM 12L 5:38, Organic Timber G12F 6:25, Govenor 7:15, BN12-300S 8:13, Sidewinder 9:01, Copperback 9:41, Redback 10:44,
Talking 12:04
DIRTY EVM 12L 13:07, Organic Timber 14:13, Govenor 15:11, BN12 300S 16:30, Sidewinder 17:54, Copperback 19:19, Redback 20:39,
Talking 22:38
HIGH GAIN/QUICK CHANGES 25:39
More talking 26:55
Nice one. If you copy these into the description, UA-cam now splits the timeline up into chapters :)
mate, you're a star!
Bought the evm 12L speaker two days ago from a local music shop. I had no idea what this speaker was and I thought I was being ripped off or something. I put the speaker in my orange cabinet and it’s AMAZING 🤩🤩 running it with an Orange Crush pro 120 head and a TH30
Oh wow, I've never tried them in an Orange cab.... I bet it weighs a ton though ;)
Yes, this is a great shootout, I really like the RedBack, it's nice to hear some option's of high power speakers
Thanks Nelson, glad you liked it. It was fun doing and yeah I think the Redback wins in this video.
What amplifier and power rating was used in this video. Could I use them in my Fender Princeton reverb
Great high-powered shoot out. Another new kid on the EVM-12L block is the Tone Tubby TABU, but there’s never a proper demo until Zilla cabs does it. 😅
Not really speaker related but the input jack on my Zilla Fatboy 212 cab kept pushing the speaker cable out due to the internal pressure. I ended up fitting a locking jack socket which solved the problem. Is this common, if so, why don't cabs come standard with locking input jack? Love your cabs by the way. I have a 112 as well as as the 212 Fatboy.
Hi, it's not that common but locking jacks will solve that.... most people actually don't know how to use locking jacks and often end up pulling the lead right through. With the jack, when did you buy the cab? We switched to cliff jacks a couple of years ago which are better for that... I hope its solved for you now.
The ev is always such a great sounding speaker, I'm always expected not to like it being such a fan of more lofi low wattage speakers but it is just rightly balanced, open and sweet clean while super clean sounding and balanced and smooth under gain without sounding boring.
Yeah I love it too, I always have fun playing it. It's not my go to speaker too, but I do love plugging them in. I wish I played a bit more strat as that is where I think they really sing.
I recently started collecting speakers so this video was very informative. The short clips are very effective for comparison purposes. Thank you!
Can you guys do an Eminence Governor vs 75 Creamback comparison? They seem pretty similar and am thinking they might work well paired in a 2x12.
Good call, I will try and get that organised asap.
I own already a organic timbre and love it. But this Celestion BN-12 300s sounds pretty awesome, too. Do you think this 2 speakers would be a goog choice for a 2x12 cab?
ooh that would be a really interesting mix. I'm not sure I;ve played the too in a single cab before... and there may be slight sensitivity issues but I reckon it would all sound good though.
@@ZillaCabs Thank you for your reply. I love the organic timbre. 😁 At the moment I play it in a Tl806.
At the moment I'm thinking about combining it with Evm 12l classic, evm black label, or the BN-12.
My amp is a pushed Marshall 2525h.
I'm actually about to buy a super crush 100 combo. They come stock with a red back. I was looking at neodymium speakers to see if I could shave some weight off it and the copperback was the only thing I really found and it was a let down. Everyone raves about the EVMS and I would agree the clips all sound great but that would add a significant amount of weight. The bn12 is probably the clear choice for me. It would shave 6 lb off and I think I could confidently use the super crush as a bass amp as well. The redback does however sound the best and I'll prolly never swap it out. But this video definitely cleared things up and gave me lots of options.
Which Version of the Sidewinder was it? There are couple different ones...
Hi Dennis, it should be the guitar speaker in this version. Until this video I didn't realise there were three types, it seems there was a guitar, bass and PA style speaker. Although we couldn't find part numbers or it written on the speaker we looked at the different cones and it appeared to be the guitar version that we were using.
I believe the designations were CE and PE ..i think CE was bass cone
After all these years the EV still sounded the best. Crisp, clean and open. The sidewinder and copper back were horrible.
If using a JTM45 at bedroom levels what would you recommend thats similar to the EV but low wattage?
Eminence CV 75
Very surprised with the Governor speaker. Sounded great on all scenarios!
There has been a lot of love for the Governor. Thanks for watching.
The copperback has a much wider frequency range than the other speakers, so you often need to adjust the EQ a little when switching back and forth between other speakers with a narrower frequency ranges. Otherwise it can sound more brittle and brassy at the same time. But once you get the EQ dialed in for the copperback, oh my God do they sound amazing.
How do the copperbacks compare to the EV? Those are the two choices I am stuck between.
Redbacks. Sound pretty close to a Altec speaker I’m familiar with I like the harmonics and the punch from the Vid sounded good to my ears I just purchased some a few minutes ago will see what a side by side comparison says and the
sounds also liked the EV12L punchy might get one of those soon to for a1X12 cab really liked the cleans and was surprised of how good it sounded distorted I would use any of them but if I was in the market definitely redback and EV’s
you guys never disappoint!
Thanks Stephen!
Can you please put out a longer version of the high gain quick changes that allow for closer listening?
Great video! Really enjoy your content.
Thanks for the comparison - quite informative! If I might make a suggestion in order to compare the speakers a little easier for the audience: perhaps make an initial guitar loop that can be played back with each speaker - this way we could more easily compare individual speaker tones without trying to pick out the tone between the differing playing styles and neck positions. Also, I did not find the High Gain/Quick Changes all that useful as it was not really possible to compare the different speakers via the time codes of the video. Other than that, a great, informative video. :)
What would you recommend for a pop-punk kind of genre among this lot? I'll be pairing it with my helix and a pedalbaby.
EVM12L is hard to beat!!! How would they handle a low watt combo like a AC15, Bugera V22 (I have), Hotrod, Bassbreaker on light crunch with a tele?
that's a really good question. Personally I think they work with anything I;ve ever thrown at them..... they may not do what you necesserily want, but I tend to find if you are open to getting new nd different sounds then you'll get something really good. I think we're going to start messing around with a few videos like that. Thanks for watching.
With the first two they are gonna sound perfect for sure.
With the bassbreaker and the hot rod cab/ eq finetuning may be needed.
Under powering is a great way to blow speakers, so I hear.....
@@benjaminaristotleboes3157 What do you mean sorry? Think the general rule of thumb is (for tube amps) 1.5 x the wattage of the amp. However the AC15 has an alnico blue so go figure. I had an Eminence swamp thing (150watt) in my Bugera V22 and sounded stiff, the alnico cream in there now is magic at 90watts.
The EVM sounds great. But im use to hearing an unpleasant midrange from this speakse that im not hearing from this clip, which is why I love it. Does this mean that ill have to search for an early 80s model to enjoy the tone that im hearinf from this clip? Great clip!
EV12L just sounds so transparent, like fresh water. Organic Timber dirty was the best. it is difficult however to make very clear comparisons because of the different ranges that you play among the different speakers. For some of them you seem to feel the bass response more and you play more in the lower register and I was looking to hearing how the other speakers would respond in the lower register primarily. I think lower register notes are just more revealing about overall speaker character. You can hear the highs and the meds filling in. Or I would’ve liked some nice open cowboy chords for each speaker in addition to some of the riffing farther up the neck. but I’m being difficult. I really appreciated what you did here. The red back is a familiar flavor that I like, and through the whole thing it was between the EV and the red back. I think I lean towards the EV. Just not sure I want to heft it around.
I’ve got a Redback. I like it a lot.
Yeah they are great speakers!
What about Eminence EM12, Tonker, Texas Heat, Swamp Thang, Legend 1218?
Also Eminence Basslite S2012 and Deltalite II 2512
When that Redback driven tone kicks in… the competition really begins: 20:39
I liked all except the Copperback and the Sidewinder…the two snake speakers. The Copperback is one of those speaker I desperately want to like, but in every demo, they seem to have too many weird dips/spikes that just don’t sit well. add to that the lacking of low end.
On the other hand….I’m about to grab one of those BN12s! Not only did the sound get me, but I love it on paper too….50hz-4000kHz? 4.4lbs AND 99dB sensitivity?!What’s not to love about those specs?! Plus I love dark speakers-where you can just throw a mic dead center on the cap and it’ll sound GOOD; you don’t have to rip your hair out trying to find the sweet spot.
Really like the OT, it sounds smoother, rounder and doesn't have that treble spike like the EVM12L.
What do the mids sound like in the room between the EV and OT?
The OT does sound like it has a less defined bigger bass than the EV.
The Copperback just sounds like an old bad radio speaker with a burnt coil.
Glad you liked it mate.
Eminence Wizard is a favorite of mine. It’s their high-powered handling (75 Watts) G12H-30.
Thanks for that, I'll make a note of that for sure.
Can the Redback be paired with Governer in a closed 2x12?
I see no reason why not. I'm not sure I've ever done it but I can;t see a bit reason not to.
I love the mids of the OT! That Redback tho!
Where does one buy NEW EVM12Ls or 15s these days?
Sweetwater, Reverb
I can hear the copperback making it in a super vintage esque production, something reminiscent of the beatles or the stones
ooh I never thought of it that way. Good call.
Totally
What wattage (25,50,100)speaker should I get for a 5-watt tube amp?
Looking to get a massive tone if possible. I never play clean.
Hi Richard, I would go for whatever you like the sound of tonally, 5 watts is enough to get speakers moving, having the lower powered amp just opens up a wider selection of speakers (in my opinion). What kind of music do you play?
Hard Rock & Metal
Yes 5 watts
@@Booneville2024 16 Ohms
@@Booneville2024 agreed. I love to mix British sounding speakers with American sounding one.
wow, that EV sounds incredible... how does it sound with single coils
I don't play single coils all that much but I tend to find it can sound great. It's not as forgiving as some speakers can be but I guess single coils are often used for cleaner playing and the EVs do that really well.
I have five Strats with different types of Pups and a large collection of cabinets and speakers and i like the EV 12 L clean Tone very much. I personally think as a result of testing an hearing that every Strat with it,s PU,s has a Speaker that matches with her sond the best. Lipstick with one specific Speaker , Standard PU,s with that Speaker and Humbucking Single Coil size PU,s with another Speaker. assumed the Amp stays the same. In my personal opinion and experience, every guitar has that one speaker that matches best. With the Amplification you can do the fine tuning of your clean tone. remember, i talk clean tone all the time. When you have found your perfect match between Strat and Speaker, you can have 3 or more different Pre Amp Pedals in front of your Poweramp and you have a nice variation in many ( 3 or more maybe ? ) different clean tones . this is very satisfying and i am very happy with my collection. :)
The T3865 (S12 150 CE) that is test here is the bass/keyboard version of the sidewinder (check the celestion code).
The guitare (lead) version is the T3771 (S12 150 PE) and it sound REALLY better in hi-gain mode.
I figured that was the case, that speaker was actually recommended to us by a few people. I would like to get my hands on the lead version as there are so many good guitarists I know that say positive things.
@@ZillaCabs Maybe you can keep your bass version for a futur test of 12" bass speaker 😉
The EV by a landslide in my opinion. Redback not bad either. Was also impressed by the BN12-300L to be honest.
The EV is a cool speaker... I think a lot of people are surprised by the BN12-300S, its a cool speaker to pull out of the hat as an option. Thanks for watching.
When that Redback driven tone kicks in… the competition really begins: 20:39
the eminence swamp thang and man o war (150 and 120 respectively) are great on their own and sound even better combined in a cab
I have the Celestion Redback. I like it. I have the EVM 12l that came in a 90s carvin amp. that speaker is great. and Carvin HE12 High energy 150 w speakers those are my favorite high power speaker. That Copperback was like fingernails on a chalkboard during high gain. I would say the EVM 12l sounded best in this video.
Why is the Governor in this shoot out? This is supposed to be for high power speakers (150w+ according to the video graphic). It sounds good, but it's only 75w (according to Eminence).
Great vid but I found it really strange. My Sidewinders sound nothing like yours under high gain at all. I also use evm12ls, black label evm12l and Redbacks. Love them all but I record with my sidewinders.
Thanks for saying that, I know some great players who love them, the odd thing is our speaker doesn't sound broken. I know there are a few different sidewinder speakers but from a little research I am sure this is the guitar speaker. If I get a chance to play another I will, just to see. Thanks for the input.
If they used the T3865 like on the picture, then it was the bass version, cloth edge. T3771 (8 Ohm) and T3772 (16 Ohm) would be the guitar (paper edge) versions.
@@martins.498 I think you're right, mine is a T3771 and it sounds much less harsh than theirs.
Paired with a G12h100 in 2X12 I have an ultra heavy and dynamic hi-gain sound with top-end not aggressive or tiring (trash, nu-metal and metalcore).
I prefer the EV12 by far cause it's what a speaker should be - clean, open, unrestricted and adds almost nothing to the sound of the guitar+amp. On that note, I really like the others as well, some have an awesome sound, but that's the problem in itself - if you want more mids or bass, you can add it using the amp tone controls or the guitar. If the speaker already has a "buil-in" mids hump or a certain tone, it's not so easy to get rid of it WHEN YOU WANT TO. It's easier to add something to the sound when you have an EV12, but cutting that Celestion BN12 and Sidewinder EQ will certainly be a task. That takes away nothing from them, they are great speakers, but more in the line of the "speaker with a certain tone" concept. An EV12 is an all-rounder.
It sounds like your amp/guitar combination is incredibly bright and twangy on overdriven tones, so a dark boxy sounding speaker like the Redback is going to marry well with it.
From where i am sitting redback all the way. That copperback was suprisingly brittle on high gain. Ev was nice too but super heavy.
Yeah the Redback is a great speaker, I love that oe too. Thanks for watching.
Despite being dark I felt the Overtone had some high end fizz happening with high gain. Should pair well with its bro evm12l though. The governor had a really nice presence feel. The Celestion Red seems overall pretty well balanced, what I liked mostly. Wonder how it coops with g12h creamback?
You know I bet the EV and Overtone would sound great together, maybe we'll have to mix the audio and see how that works... and we were asked about mixing speakers with the redback the otherday, something we haven't done much of at all... my gut feeling was the H creamback would be great with it.
Zillla did a video mixing the Creambacks with the red back. Search for it.
Great Comparison!!! If I was using a solid state amp or modeling, I would definitely prefer the thicker punchier sound of the EV/Organic speakers to try to revive some of the tube sound. The redback sounds good as well but to my ears not a nice as the EV. Maybe even the Back Label for to really cut the edginess of a solid state amp or modeler.
I’ve been using the EV 12l since 89. If there’s a better all rounder, I haven’t heard it. Currently have a couple red backs. They’re good but lack any real character and don’t even compare to the 12l
I'm not sure your Celestion Sidewinder is functioning well.. this weekend we opened up my father-in-law's 2x12, a great sounding cab we have recorded a good number of songs with over the years.. we found two Sidewinders (T37 72). The cab is nicely balanced and doesn't sound harsh or nasal with high gain sounds as your one does.
Incidentally he bought the cab for £30 off Ebay "loaded with 150W Celestions" about a decade ago.. we were inspired to have a peek at the speakers by this video as I didn't believe he had 150W Celestions in such a cheap cab.
The T3865 (S12 150 CE) that is test here is the bass/keyboard version of the sidewinder (check the celestion code).
The guitare (lead) version is the T3771 (S12 150 PE) and it sound REALLY better in hi-gain mode.
@@gilleseckert6695 I didn't think to check the speaker used in this video.. that would explain it!
The sidewinder sounded great clean, it actually stood out to me while listening to it blind. For dirty and distorted the sidewinder seriously lacked girth and body.
Great video as always!
Thanks guys. You are right there, with a touch of drive it just started to fall down to me, I was hoping for a bit more.
The T3865 (S12 150 CE) that is test here is the bass/keyboard version of the sidewinder (check the celestion code).
The guitare (lead) version is the T3771 (S12 150 PE) and it sound REALLY better in hi-gain mode.
Copperback sounds so much like an Alnico speaker that I wanna try it.
I agree, it does!
I’m a huge fan of the Redback .....
When that Redback driven tone kicks in… the competition really begins: 20:39
The EV has 600 hZ, 1 kHz and, above all, a huge 4kHz peak which are not so common in guitar speakers, especially the latter one, but turn out to be the most useful.
It also falls slower after that last peak across the highs, thus it sounds very open, especially compared to other HiFi drivers used as guitar speakers- fyi, Eminence's EM 12 is darker, and EM 12 N and Delta Pro 12 A even more dark.
I liked them all, in most applications.
The Governor definitely has its place.
If you want something between the Governor and the EV, check the CV75 or Tonker.
CV75 has less aggressive but more extended upper mids and highs than the Governor.
Thus sounding more HiFi.
I have tested a CV75 a to b to an original EV and almost couldn't tell which is which- they were not in identical cabs though, but those two left me the most surprised that evening (and many cool original speakers were laying around, an original V30s, blackbacks, original T75s, Sidewinders, Fanes and a lot more).
Tonker is even mellower.
The Redback is the epitome of "HiFi high wattage meets guitar oriented driver" has the best of both worlds.
The Sidewinders are great too
The Organic Timbre performed excellently.
I don't have experience with the Copperback or the BN, but I would like to.
I have a Marshall Reverb 75 , it’s from 1985. The combo has a stock Celestion Sidewinder. It’s a good ZZ Top tone.
Ooh, I'm a big fan of those sounds, I'l have to give it a shot. Thanks for watching.
I've got a marshall reverb 75, from 1988 and with the same sidewinder...got it since 2000....will neve leave it.
EVM 12L has that late 70's early 80's tone...
It's a graet speaker.
It was made in 1983
copper back 250 is it good for high gain?
To be honest, I'm really not a big fan of the copperback, I think its possibly the weakest link in the Celestion range. If I wanted to use a high powered neo speaker I'd probably go for the BN12-300S. Some people do like the Copperback though
Thanks, guys! Very useful comparison! Buuuttt... And the V-Type vs Creamback M65? =P
It'll come Thiago, I promise... feel free to keep pestering though ;)
@@ZillaCabs I'm sorry if i'm pestering you.
Very interesting video, as usual!
Thanks, that's really kind of you, glad you enjoyed it.
I've ended here because of the EV, then finally let myself dreaming away... great playing, i remember nothing about the speakers...😂
I want a 65 Fender DRRI with the Redback, im really digging that spkr.
Thanks. It should sound really good in there, the redback is a great speaker
Warehouse guitars has an equivalent to the EVM-12L, available through Earcandy. High power with one speaker.
Sidewinder All The Way!!!
Try a 4x12 Sidewinder cab -T3771 paper edge surrounds & T3865 cloth edge surrounds.
One 4x12 cab of each.
Together one or two amps.
Speed Extreme Metal. - no slow motion chords.
You will be amazed at the speed of your
String articulation high speed picking clarity from the Sidewinders..
600 bpm and higher.
Cheers man.
That redback on the high gain was nice. The sidewinder was the worst to my ears
Great player!
👍🇬🇧❤NEO COPPER #1 🎸 EV #2 🎸 SIDEWINDER #3
Id love to hear the side winder next to the v30/greenback/g12t75 ect
Great vid guys! Ev or red back for me
Thanks, I'm glad you like it. It was redback or BN12-300S for me, but I do love the EVs too...... I'm clearly just greedy here naming three haha
Great stuff lads, keep them coming! I think Celestion has really hit it out of the park with the Redback.. I'd still like to hear it side by side with it's lower wattage counterparts, like the Greenback or the Heritage 30, just to see how much the Redback is sacrificing in order to manage its huge power rating.
And lets see if I can save up some money to order a Fatboy with white tolex to match my white Engl Blackmore. Corona isn't helping.
Cheers!
Thanks Jaime. I think that is a great idea for a video, Redback vs lower powered and industry standard speakers... always up for making a Fatboy in white ;)
For me the EV12L and then the Celestion Copperback Neo
A quick idea; guitar cab with a 10" guitar and 10" bass speaker for baritones/ERG guitars????
That could be really cool.
Cheers :)
evm 12l take no prisoner: with the governor it has the loudest volume of all and the better guitar tone , legendary mid-bass
Thank you for putting this together. I love the EV. It just presented so perfectly to my ear. Just not prepared to add 10 pounds to my rig... sooo...
So I ordered the Redback on the advice here and should have it within a week.. It will be used for Marshall derivative tones in a 1x12 that seem to be calling for a rolled off greenback type. Fingers crossed.
The Mesa Stilleto is an interesting choice of a testbed amp. I have a few Mesa amps that probably have a Stilleto-ish circuit.
Btw - with some circuits the Jensen Raptor presents like many of the better half of those demoed here. Kind of a EV meets GB large Dustcap tone tending more to smooth than most celestions. Would love to hear it in a shootout somewhere as there are very few demos of it.
I'm gonna get the copperbacks. I think they'll sound perfect with my blackbird preamp, Carvin ts100 and EMG equipped guitar. I think they'll bring out the definition of my Eventide effects too.
Maybe my favorites were the governor and the redback!
Theres a lot of love for the Governor for sure.
Interesting that you chose The Governor to represent Eminence in this comparison, They make a ton of speakers with a higher power rating. I'm guessing that's the only model you had laying around. The EM12 and EM12n would be direct competitors with the EV. Even the Texas Heat is 150 watts.
@REVOLUTION TV I like the explanation in the OP better.
@IM-ON-RUMBLE You're projecting.
Strange, my Sidewinder sounds a lot closer to my EVM12L than that demo would suggest.
There are three different types of Sidewinder, I've been trying to get all three in but at the time of the video this is the only one we had.
@@ZillaCabs Makes sense, and individual speakers can have their own sound too. Thanks for all the great work!
Just for reference, I am driving the above mentioned speakers with an equivalent of a Mesa 2:90, specifically a simal- satellite, with the EVM, as the dummy, and an Electradyne on a wide body 1/12 cab with the Sidewinder to generate the tone (usually blue channel with a clean boost.) I have a graphic right before the power stages to match the cabs, and it sounds close enough to where it doesn't throw the tone.
@@ZillaCabs Which sidewinder did you use in this video? 3771?
Wanted to request a comparison of the Heritage series G12H 30 75Hz and Creamback M65, if you all are up for it!
You're in luck Drew, we have that video ready to load up, it should be up in the next week all being well. Thanks for the request.
@@ZillaCabs Thanks, looking forward to it!
Clean, any. Crunch, Governor or Bn. OT , Ev or Governor. BUT, in general, the mids were high and the treble was a notch low on the amp for my liking
I kind of know what you mean there, I think Joe used the Marshall SLP on this, I would normally pull the bass back a little from what Joe does but I still think he gets some great sounds on that amp.
@@ZillaCabs It's kindy tricky because i made a vid and it sounded too trebly so i erased it but i used my cell that was probably the main problem. Might get a Senhauser because i hear they're very good and there just isn't enough vids on either speaker i have. WGS Reaper 30 and Eminence D12V8 Diezel custom which has 0 vids i think. High gain...
brilliant company great products just takeing my fatbaby 150w redback to gigs has made it easy to transport great sound,
if you want to compare sounds , i think you have to play the same notes . But still i think you did a great job !! Nice video
I think Celestion should make a 250 watt neo speaker with g12h75 Creamback cone...
ElectroVoice sounds the best I think.
EVL is the only one that sounds good at all under high gain
if i hear right, the BN12 300S has a very warm mid range.
The OT speaker had so much more character than the EV. All the speakers were nice clean sounding, The EV and Sidewinder being my least favorite in that department. Shocking cause I used Sidewinders for years! Governor did not have the fullness of any of the speakers dirty but again it’s the least powerful outta them all. OT and Red Back just killed it all around.
Thanks for including the governor by accident :)
Glad you like it.
Try Avatar for a wide selection, including Celestion and Warehouse guitar.
Avatar cabs? We make Zilla cabs I'm not sure why we would use their cabs in our videos. They are cool cabs for sure but not good enough for us to demo their cabs over ours ;)
these videos would be amazing if they actually did the high gain right. Leaving it on each speaker for a split second so you dont even have time to listen to how it sounds. If you want to switch back and for at least leave it on each speaker for 3-5 seconds before switching.
Yes 5 watts
A nice Harley Benton guitar by the way :-)
I wish it had only cost that much, I'd buy a hundred of them.
5:39 10:58
HAAtchhh
Eminence Swamp Thang is 150w too - sounds kinda nasty on it's own, but a great one to blend with other stuff.
I've played them before I know that but I've never sat down and learned the range, I probably should.