Honestly I bet a change as simple as letting him walk at normal speed while shielding would change a lot of these brawl matchups. He could walk back to cover faster. He could pressure angles better. He could close the distance to get the hammer out. Seems like an easy thing to test!
@@YormanGina I'm pretty sure it was during the barrier gut patch of ow1, they reduced the penalty for the lower health and then never touched it again.
As much as I love that thought, I think its a slippery slope. Pretty sure rein would change to do the opposite and use shield to go in and disengage while pinning someone in your backline. Would feel a little like OW1 rein, but would change very much. though tbh I honestly believe his pin struggles a bit.. to be more specific, the hitbox. At one point it was fine (in the beginning of OW2), then he literally sucked everyone in like a vacuum cleaner (i think the Olympus event was during that time) and now he can't grab shi...
fr that modes best feature is that it just fixes huge gaps in characters kits. genji gets big tanking or free damage, pharah gets shield health and hits damage break points or moves more, soldier becomes a tank or a close range damage monster, rein can actually move and outdamage healing or pressure at range, dva has value when playing DM bot, orisa gets heat clear and move speed, zen becomes a real support and dps monster, so on. I know its recycling the talents from the scrapped pve but just like the april fools stuff I hope they still keep it in mind for future reworks. I'd drop half of reins shield to walk at full speed the same way we gave up pin damage for canceling it.
sorry but this is a very strong buff, he already has faster speed, you will not run away from him while he is waving a weapon, if you do not have an escape. if you increase his speed with a shield, he will freely block all damage and get close very quickly and this will be just hell for supports and dps
5v5 forcing to design new tanks so they could be able to do everything at the same time and rework older ones so they have no weaknesses is what left him behind
@@joshuacollins9316 I'm glad there are people that actually remember the problems during Overwatch 1... 3 years of "OMG, these DLC do-it-all heroes ruining my games".
Literally most problems in 5v5 would be solved by making every hero a generalist, it wouldn't be overwatch anymore but at least the format would actually function well.
@@lukeaustin4465 a lot of heroes already are "generalists", but people mainly complain about the ones that aren't. Overwatch will always have unique hero designs and kits even if they function similar.
Haha I've been playing since 2017 but I've never seen anyone explain positioning, gamesense and tactics so well. I've got an overwatch tournament coming up so just tryna to get my tactics up cos I got good mechanics but sometimes I just feed😂 your analogy about being tied to your backline was such a good explanation. Wish you all the best son (even though I'm probably 8 years younger 😂)
Tank skills that have no downsides is criminal. Fortify losing headshot weakness was one of the biggest braindead move ever to balancing her and made orisa into her meta pick unkillable state now. No matter how you buff or nerf her stat line, fortify itself is the issue given how much other mitigation she has in her kit.
If mauga charges in and gets ccd, he’s literally just insta dead. Also, like mentioned, his dash doesnt one shot nor guarantee a kill any 100% of cases. Rein charge would be broken with cc immun though lol… you cant boop, sleep, stun or anything. That would be absolutely ridiculous
@@SqiddoGD Yet, he gets infinite sustain with crits on his chain gun. Rein doesn't get that and his shield is FINITE. Even then, Reinn charges WITHOUT his shield with a 1-2 second wind up time that is easily telegraphed. Mauga isn't just busted because of his sustain, but because he can peel back with his dash that is easily controllable compared to Reins.
When ram came out i loved the idea of a character centred around manipulating the enemies position, a bit like orisa's pull, i really loved the idea of vortex So when they were quick to buff him by giving him that 20% speed boost in nemesis form i instantly knew they fucked it Imo he shouldn't have been given that speed boost, rather he should have been given some buffs to vortex
I admit this is kind of why I started to gravitate towards Mauga over playing rein in brawl situations. Mauga is just more self-sufficient and can go in off angles with no fear because if he gets hit with too much pressure he can just run back to his team. Rein will likely just fucking die if he attempts the same. Also unlike rein he isn't completely useless against ranged characters. It's actually really satisfying to be able to apply meaningful pressure on flyers and actually solo kill them if they don't have a pocket. Rein has to hit a one in a million firestrike to have any effect on distance opponents and even then, he has to hit two in order to kill them (I don't know if this changed with the Hp increase patch though so even that won't be enough if so).
Turn Ram's block into a self-barrier: blocks damage and CDs from the front, but form goes away when it breaks. Cardiac Overdrive should be an offensive ability, not a defensive one. He can only double-gun while the cooldown is active, and get rid of the lifesteal. Would probably need more accessible Overrun for better survivability via positioning. GUT Fortify. Lean into the CC protection and heat reduction, but pull WAY back on the damage reductions. Then, idk, let Terrasurge destroy projectiles from outside the circle so she doesn't immediately fall over. Gotta go within range to shoot her, risk--reward, y'know? Just my two cents on the goon squad
a better q is how do we balance heroes such that, we could see a more similar hero tier list/pick distribution between pro play, high rank, and at least mid rank.
I will still play Reinhardt regardless of the meta because he is fun to play. I will say the same thing about Winston too. I don’t have any desire to play the “meta tanks,” because, quite frankly, they are boring.
rein is meta though. one of the strongest tank for quite a while now. 2 years since ow2 released he was only bad for 1 season and he is gigabusted since s10. even devs admitted it. they allow it because people dont mind it.
He’s strong as spill said, but not optimal in the “brawl meta”. He doesn’t trade as well with the other brawl tanks but is still better against other comps like poke.
Reinhardt is the original tank design of overwatch 1 and as tank design evolved, or devolved, depending on what you believe, he just got left behind. Tanks in 5v5 needs to be able to do everything at once and sigma is the perfect example of a 5v5 tank. One interesting suggestion for Reinhardt I have is maybe he gets an ability to temporarily transform his big shield into a personal shield in health kinda like what wrecking ball has for like 5 seconds and he can swing or ping during that. This sort of replaces the tank synergy between Zarya and rein with just a press of a button. I think this really fits the 5v5 design goals of the tank, it just removes the need for tank synergy and instead just gives value by default.
The same reason as to why people dropped Lucio in favor of Juno, hero kit and team synergy is better with other new heroes. Also because Rein was NEVER made for 5v5 like 2 or 3 other tanks as well.
I’ve played an absurd amount of rein, genuinely used to be able to spawn camp some owl reins. Got him to top 25 in one of his worst metas ever in ow1 until I got mass reported by the top players cause they couldn’t figure it out and hated what I was doing so I got banned twice in one season. You are completely right that it’s due to good counter play in sigma, Winston, rein but not orisa, ram, mauga etc. Here is a full breakdown of his issues - 1. Hero design/changes - Every hero seems almost designed/updated to give rein a hard time. Orisa ult was changed to pierce barriers making a bad matchup worse. Ram (I believe, didn’t pay much attention to ow2 patch notes) was changed to have speed boost during nemesis to be able to engage/disengage better, hurting rein probably more than any other tank on the roster. Mauga has designed complete immunity cc in his charge ability, I get having a blanket rule but blizzard has bent such rules before. Why not make him and rein even on charge dynamic? Junkerqueen like ram has speed boost that causes such a headache for rein but also a massive pull ability in her knife with such a low cooldown it’s easy for her to use often and extremely punishing, again worse for rein almost moreso than any other tank. If you get pulled once the fight is often over there. 2. Pin ability - going along with point 1, reins pin is his strong ability to gain tempo and value. You have to outplay the enemy tank to draw out their insane cooldown wheel, and when you succeed in that you try to pin… for orisa she has literally every ability to stop you’re pin so it’s hard to create a window. Junkerqueen and ram are insanely hard to pin when they have speed boost because they can very easily react to the reins pin and dodge it, no matter how good you are. But most importantly in my opinion and something they need to change IMMEDIATELY is that the pin hit boxes are actually garbage. It’s hard to pin Jq, like physically hard, never mind the speed and that you can pin when she has knife, but it’s hard to hit her period. Ram is the worst though. He’s got the hitbox of a department store and somehow the pin hitboxes just don’t vibe well with rein. I haven’t tested it, I don’t know the specifics, but it’s something there. It’s absurd that rein can pin a McReee or Ana much more easily that a rein, in nemesis form, which is so wide it’s taking up half a choke point. Nemesis is the particular culprit, it’s like the hitbox was never properly tuned for reins pin, it just feels off. So you can’t even semi reliably try to pin nemesis as a way to drag him off and burn some rams time in the form. 3. Pin damage/punishment - going along with number 2, pin is reins strongest ability to gain advantage but why is it so weak? It’s such a heavy commitment, having to time ALL enemy cooldowns to be able to pin through them and land it. But I land it on an orisa, ram, Jq and I AM WORSE OFF FOR LANDING IT THAN NOT DOING IT AT ALL. It makes no sense. Even if the enemy tank has no support and you pin them into a closed of room if unless you were very significant advantaged going in, you won’t have much of a tempo lead post pin land. You may even be losing. Crazy. I have been calling for a heavy pin damage buff since ow2 drop and I think they recently made it a bit better but it needs a little more. The only dps that were surviving pin at full health were mei (has 2 abilities to dodge it), reaper (has 2 abilities to dodge it, and bastion (can dodge with bade or sheer damage). Why was there ever concern for these heroes when you can just buff the damage significantly and make it a significant tuning fork in the tank matchup? I should be able to pin an enemy tank and really rock them. Issue is it would be pretty oppressive to Winston’s, sigs, etc. 4. Cooldown times - the cooldown rotations especially for these poorly designed tanks like mauga, orisa, ram, Jq is so insane that no matter what you do they have easy and oppressive responses. It is so bad that even if you bait out every ability to land a pin you literally cannot hit a wall before they have 1 or 2 abilities back online that are punishing. The only way you come out strong against these heroes is if you force them to get cooldowns out absurdly fast and then pin them on a short wall not more than 10 feet away. Anything else you are gaining just some tempo (often not worth the risk) or somewhere between that and losing significant tempo because it’s high risk and you get burned. This is a deeper game design flaw, the cooldown rotations need to be fixed. Ow1 was great because you would bait cooldowns and press - the better player was rewarded. That’s no longer the case. I would like to see testing of higher cooldown windows on tanks and to reward the mid play - make ability use rewarding/punishing when landed or missed, when played at the right time, when you can delay using defensive abilities by cleverly using cover, etc. there should be little tempo potential built in, not unlimited cooldown button mashing. I envision a tank role where cooldowns are slower to come back but maybe a larger health pool so it’s fore based on the mid play then insane cooldown cycles. If the devs wanted a smaller fix though- why not improve reins pin recovery? If every dps/healer in the game will be dying to rein pin from point 3, can we possibly make rein recover faster from a landed pin so he does. It immediately get burned by dps/supports int heat bread window? He can be more prepared to block ccs, or even things like Jq knife, he can get another swing started on the enemy tank to get a little more tempo boost. Seems like it would be beneficial. 5. Self heal/instant heal - the tank healing in the game is annoying, it’s dumb, and it’s poorly designed. Rein is a hero that takes space/advantage from the tempo created. It’s really beautiful when you can outmaneuver the enemy and just chip away at their advantage little by little. The wins aren’t always decisive and immediate. You can have 3-4 or more cooldown cycles of tempo improvements and if you are playing perfectly then you constantly get benefit and it is so rewarding. The self heal largely kills that. It just keeps enemy tanks so resilient so easily, it feels cheap. And while I am actually fine with self healing and understand it is needed in some tanks as currently designed the instant buff as seen in orisa and ram is annoying. Clicking a button to instantly jump 150 hl is terrible design (Ram/Orisa), the tempo shift is immediate. It instead should maybe be gradual, or some other solution should be found. But turning it from advantage to you are screwed as rein is a pretty bad feeling. This goes in with the pin comments - you fires pin the enemy tank and upon landing it on them they actually have more health than when you started your pint while also being buffed with strong abilities and movement? Horrible horrible design and gameplay. I’m sure I could write more and more. It just sucks because I know the game super well I can read it and see - I am significantly outplaying this Ram/Orisa/JQ, I am a significantly better player, I am playing smarter, and at the end of the day it just does not matter. The design is just bad. I would love it if blizzard made any of the changes listed - best would be if they could address the cooldown issues plaguing the game. That would be able to balance rein into these poorly designed tanks without making him too oppressive at lower ranks, but they’d need to make some significant changes which I don’t think the team is capable of (I also told them hot to fix double shield meta for like a year but they’d couldn’t work it out). Otherwise consider even more pin damage, faster recovery post pin, perhaps faster movement with shield, (god forbid) some self heal mechanic, or something else just to bring him current. I hope I don’t sound like a whiner rein player. I actually enjoy the challenge but the issue is the game design is so poor, and not just in how rein matchups up in it but the design as a whole, that it makes this otherwise beautiful game a complete snooze fest. The raw reward of skill, game sense, intuition, etc is lost. It’s no wonder nobody plays the role, but blizzard simply will never understand.
4:21. cloudy once said a rein buff would be to have shield on pin, i thought he was trolling but after watching this i think he meant it and i think it would help and be fair. it would protect him from the front from CC and the fair part is that it would still use up his shield as a resource so he'd be easier to pressure out after the (shield + pin), just don't force the combo let it be an option to use one or both, no sombra buffs lol
@@musicxxa6678 he is not since he has 0 range and demands a lot of resources when he gets in his little swing range.He cant access high ground and his firestrikes do not even 2 shot
@musicxxa6678 What are you smoking? Rein the best tank in the game? In what like gold? Silver? I'll give you 3 tanks that absolutely dominate far more than Rein and far more effectively. Winston, Rammatra, Sigma. And they're usually not even the meta tanks, yet they are all far superior to Rein in a majority of cases.
I'm absolutely team "make tank fun to play, it'll improve the entire game". My favorite tank to play right now is Doom; tons of skill expressions with high risk high reward. If they just let the balance buff up the more fun tanks and let the less fun ones lag, then they can use that under-performance as an excuse to do a rework that leans into keeping them fun to play. Rein is still my "most played all time" hero because of OW 1 and I remember actually having a ton of fun back then, these days I absolutely refuse to play rectangle man both from just "rein jail" burnout but also because in OW2 he is only ever actually fun if you're completely rolling the other team.
Everyone should watch Szyl's video from last year called Why Reinhardt Should Not Be a Meta Hero". It is not a Rein-hate piece. He makes some good philosophical points. Look it up.
i did, Reinhardt Should Not Be a Meta Hero, but at the same time Szyl hardstuck in his unrank to gm for those season that if he can't do it, i think it will be too hard to climb to normal people, not up to be meta, but should be playable in every not smurf game.
In my opinion, it's not a problem of Reinhardt not having free mitigation and ability to multitask, but it's a problem of these other tanks having this ability. The reason why most people hate playing against an Orisa, a Mauga or a Ramattra is because they are constantly outputting pressure and doing what they want and at the same time have a defensive cool-down or passive active. Even Roadhog can't output pressure and get defensive at the same time. It leads to super boring heroes that play almost the exact same no matter if they have the advantage or are about to die, which leads to the feeling of heroes that can play themselves. I think that's especially a problem with Orisa and Mauga, as they both have cool-downs and mechanics that encourage them to shoot for survivability rather than block or get to cover, Ramatra's problem is more that he's just a completely overtuned tank, that Nemesis form is way too omnipresent and forgiving, making it from what should a cool-down to push and pull the default mode of the hero, and that ramatra can just do everything as well or even better than most tanks, he just has more good button than a Rein has buttons period.
You can't fix Rein because it's all in the hero design. He's a close range tank, he can't do anything from afar. He's the only hero who doesn't have a gun (besides Brig, but Brig isn't a real hero anyway). All he has is a melee hammer, and no, firestrikes aren't a "gun". So unless you rework him altogether to have a different kit, he's always gonna be inferior to Sigma, Mauga, Ram, Doom, Dva, etc.
As a mid-high masters rein OTP, i heavily agree that rein's environment is what needs to be changed, not rein himself. The only exception to this is against flying characters as he literally cannot interact with them if they deliberately avoid him (and with the addition to juno, you can make a full flying comp bro who is he gonna swing at?), and you cant exaclty just nerf flying for one character. Everything else tends to be stuff nobody likes and rein will just happen to improve as they get fixed. Bad maps getting reworked, heroes like orisa and mauga becoming less obnoxious, etc.
I feel like Mauga getting a better Charge is so stupid so I feel like….THIS MIGHT SOUND BAD BUT Make it so Overrun functions like Charge where you can get stunned and cc because Mauga literally has no armor or anything so it kinda makes since BUT for rein he has a big ass metal suit so in a sense he could probably handle cc done to him while using charge like maybe make it so when rein charges he’s immune to one Cc ability then once you hit him with that one cc then he can become stunable
That makes sense from a character/lore perspective but not a game design/balance perspective. Mauga doesn't have shield and his run doesn't have near the potential damage or CC that Rein does.
They can't change it from 6v6 to 5v5 and expect the same game. It changes the fundamentals, and most players don't care to understand it. Don't even get me started on MMR and balance
Ive been wanting Rein to passively gain health while holding shield for a long time. That gives low elo Reins a reason to drop shield (you'll heal off the damage) and promotes high rank players conserving their shield when they need the sustain. I've seen it done in Paladins with Khan (who also has JQs shout) and the kit felt really good, even as a solo tank.
Spilo, what do I do as a DPS when my Tank dies? Let's say a fight that starts as a 5v5 and turns into a 4v5 because my tank died, what I'm I supposed to do as a DPS? Idk if that's enough info to off of but usually I either look for a trade or fall back with my team, trying to keep my supports alive.
I mean, as a sig player, I understand the pain of rein players. getting shoved into a wall just sucks. I hate brawl so much, but it is way too effective right now. Not only does it automatically group the team, but people can simply shoot whoever and it usually works, unlike dive or even poke.
I'm a Rein main and i knew something was off with him, but your explanation made everything so clear. So, i'll TRY to cook here. Two major Rein weaknesses are lack of multitasking and verticality, so: Multitasking: Let him drop his shield. While holding right click, press R to drop his shield to the ground. Like Ram's shield. Now you can let your shield standing on it's own, while you hammer, charge, etc. Verticality: Charge should work like Venture's drill. You can aim upwards to get to a high ground. Pinning people should only work when charge is used on the ground. If you charge upwards, you should just boop people. (being able to pin flying characters mid-air sounds too op) So, did I cook? I really wanna hear everyone's opinion.
What if rather than dropping his shield we just give him a shield with larger health 2000 hp and let it be much more flexible by removing movement speed negation OR we give him an immunity of 5 secs after his shield is destroyed? I like the latter cuz it enables him creativity like him charging into enemy lines with low hp shield and then his 5 sec immunity as attacking and escape.
@@Dios_of_Autumn-1999i think more shield health or no speed penalty. Rein would already lowkey shoot up to meta if he could walk at regular speed with a 1600hp shield if it was bigger it might be kinda broken.
@@WockMonkey I am a rein main and I say no he wouldnt. Why? Because it doesnt solve his most annoying problems which is counterwatch. just existing 5 secs without a shield in frontlines is a death sentence. I could go more into how much problematic it is as a rein to play in a battlefield and how boring his gameplay could get because of his limited options. Charge is not very effective either for escaping and killing enemies so its typically used as part of his melee kit. Shield is easily counterable as dives and pokes have ways to hit you. Ashe bomb, Ana grenade and junkrat... literally being junkrat can easily ruin your position as you are always forced to fall back. Rein is severely team reliant. Saying that making is shield bigger/removing movement speed penalty while shielding will make him meta is as ignorant as saying the earth is flat.
If he could drop his shield it would have to get nerfed a ton like sigma shield to allow him to do more and respectful no he shouldn't get verticality he's more brawl oriented that's like giving Orisa flight lol
Its crazy how the devs shower rein with these Collab skins yet not once they don't fix the actual problem with rein and thats how slow he is. Rein needs the perfect comp to actually rush in and get value but usually that value doesn't last long since counter swapping makes him get less value.
Say what you will about ow1 orisa, but she had a better design foundation than ow2 orisa. Her counterplay SHOULD HAVE BEEN to get up close in her face. A poke tank: great at range, but falls apart up close. Once you get past her shield, she’s in trouble. Fortify should have been 30% damage reduction max, and NO HEADSHOT RESISTANCE. Even bongo had counterplay, as you could break it (100hp) Nowadays she’s just brainless mitigation.
Personally i dislike the idea of just making more Reinhardt as i don't find him as fun id prefer more interesting characters like queen and less like zarya that are just too simple I get that people like using rein has the "gold standard" but i really don't think that he should be the example that we use to balance everyone else
the thing i really dislike is that rein only has 2 positive tank matchups. sigma and rein. Yes Rein is a positive matchup against himself. rein pin does well against another rein, or stuns the other rein at least, rein stops shatter and is the most consistent tank at doing so, rein doesnt care about rein shield. in the mirror i dont think its about the individual reins per say but it comes down to what comp and how competent each team is playing against a rein. ive played on teams that cannot stay alive vs a rein where as i just get looked at by all 5 enemy players, ive also been on the opposite side of the coin where im dominating a team because they refuse to help their rein player even though i know hes doing fine. and especially now that matchmaking for tanks is a lot tighter i really believe i got rid of the mtds in the rein mirror.
Could almost put monkey in there too bc if he tries to jump on me you just hit him in the face and he has to leave but monkey has better range pressure and his shield is lowkey better too
Imo the problem is rein in 5v5. If he's able to play the game he's basically permanently on you and that locks out a lot of heros in the roster. The only thing you can do is play a hero he can't reach and then the rein players are not having a good time, imo there is almost no scenario where both teams have an even remotely enjoyable game. He should not be changed until after the 6v6 tests, because if we go back reworking him is a bad idea, he is peak design for 6v6, not 5v5.
I actually really like tank ults that give you more mitigation, one of the few things I like about orisa and ram. Its so satisfying to finally earn your ult and be able to run rampant without fear of wasting your cooldown. Especially on winston with primal. I can see the argument that these ults need to take longer to charge though, or be more skillfull (primal my beloved)
these comments man. he just explained that it's because of the design of other brawl tanks overshadowing rein and you just ignore all of it and say "5v5" when these problems would still exist in 6v6. come on
Reinhardt was barely played at the end of OW1 as well, it has nothing to do with the 5v5 or 6v6 format but how Reinhardt has to take risks that other thanks have cooldowns to counter
@@marcel7253 what off tank combo would specifically solve the issues of rein having less effective mitigation, ability to push/pull, and a worse ultimate in comparison to mauga, ram, and orisa?
I love 5v5 because the tanks weaknesses and strengths are the path a team should play upon with 6v6 it’s just avoiding the enemy tanks strengths and it’s relatively hard to try to exploit any tank’s weaknesses most tanks have everything in their kit to be balanced it’s just how to balance it. Ram seems like the most versatile tank but even against Reinhardt he has no speed comparatively, this is obviously just an example but these tanks don’t have to do everything they just have to be okay with doing anything, it doesn’t feel like that as tank when reinhardt is forced to use shield he feels like he sucks because that’s not what he wants to do he wants to get up close and hit multiple people with the hammer but it should be tidied to his ability to engage like the speed boost idea when shield is broken or something similar. This is not bad design this would be awesome for both sides weighing whether or not shooting shield is worth it because it’s normally a free resource with nobody behind it but now there’s a trade off and going through is a well thought out decision
The fact that Rein can't do anything else while he has his shield up is a big problem. Especially in 5v5 when every other tank can do something else when they put up a shield, or some other defense ability. Also call me crazy, but I think fire strike should set people on fire
Rein's movement speed is way too slow for OW2 tanks, and on top of with every other tanks can multitask, that community mode change is literally what he needed. (Speed boost while shield gets damaged by %)
Playing OW for so many years now rein is just boring to me and the newer ow2 players seem to think a similar way even without having played the first game so maybe that has an influence on the devs but im just riffing
Rein has such an outdated design. The whole meta is shield and shoot or Brawl and sustain. Rein is ONLY shield and Brawl. Firestrikes lack range and Rein has no sustain besides shield. For a close range hero, he’s too slow and relies on so much more healing than other tanks.
if rein had 3000 hit points, all the pros would play him,,,, they don't play rein because his numbers are too low,, first and foremost sure, if you have synergy, that's too be noted but it's all about the numbers man :)
Can we talk about how corny Reinhard players tend to be) I’m pretty sure most of us have encountered the classic player that keeps role playing and talks about honor and stuff like that… it’s genuinely so embarrassing
oh my god what is wrong with you, "eMbAriSinG" sorry not all of us treat this cool game like its some high school simulator, it says alot about you that you do not see the value in Honor and that which drives righteous actions into fruition. And if it bothers you so much then just mute em, you'll do the rest of the team a favor
Honestly I bet a change as simple as letting him walk at normal speed while shielding would change a lot of these brawl matchups. He could walk back to cover faster. He could pressure angles better. He could close the distance to get the hammer out. Seems like an easy thing to test!
Yep. Orisa and Dva get plenty of tweaks to their walking-firing speed, yet I can't remember the last time Rein got something like that for his shield.
@@YormanGina I'm pretty sure it was during the barrier gut patch of ow1, they reduced the penalty for the lower health and then never touched it again.
We're gonna get another 10 Orisa buffs before they even consider that option
As much as I love that thought, I think its a slippery slope. Pretty sure rein would change to do the opposite and use shield to go in and disengage while pinning someone in your backline. Would feel a little like OW1 rein, but would change very much.
though tbh I honestly believe his pin struggles a bit.. to be more specific, the hitbox. At one point it was fine (in the beginning of OW2), then he literally sucked everyone in like a vacuum cleaner (i think the Olympus event was during that time) and now he can't grab shi...
I always picked the mutation that decreased the movement penalty of shield in Junkenstein's lab, it's really strong but also really fun
From junkrat lab i realized how good rein could be if he just walked faster with shield up
fr that modes best feature is that it just fixes huge gaps in characters kits. genji gets big tanking or free damage, pharah gets shield health and hits damage break points or moves more, soldier becomes a tank or a close range damage monster, rein can actually move and outdamage healing or pressure at range, dva has value when playing DM bot, orisa gets heat clear and move speed, zen becomes a real support and dps monster, so on.
I know its recycling the talents from the scrapped pve but just like the april fools stuff I hope they still keep it in mind for future reworks. I'd drop half of reins shield to walk at full speed the same way we gave up pin damage for canceling it.
sorry but this is a very strong buff, he already has faster speed, you will not run away from him while he is waving a weapon, if you do not have an escape. if you increase his speed with a shield, he will freely block all damage and get close very quickly and this will be just hell for supports and dps
5v5 forcing to design new tanks so they could be able to do everything at the same time and rework older ones so they have no weaknesses is what left him behind
Is that Elesis in your profile picture?
Nah, Tank design already was heading toward this and OW1. And Reinhardt was in a similar place there. It’s not 5v5 specific.
@@joshuacollins9316 I'm glad there are people that actually remember the problems during Overwatch 1... 3 years of "OMG, these DLC do-it-all heroes ruining my games".
Literally most problems in 5v5 would be solved by making every hero a generalist, it wouldn't be overwatch anymore but at least the format would actually function well.
@@lukeaustin4465 a lot of heroes already are "generalists", but people mainly complain about the ones that aren't. Overwatch will always have unique hero designs and kits even if they function similar.
Hey spilo just wanted to say you are such an inspiration ❤
Thanks mom
Haha I've been playing since 2017 but I've never seen anyone explain positioning, gamesense and tactics so well. I've got an overwatch tournament coming up so just tryna to get my tactics up cos I got good mechanics but sometimes I just feed😂 your analogy about being tied to your backline was such a good explanation. Wish you all the best son (even though I'm probably 8 years younger 😂)
@@CoachSpilo Look at Spilo man, so inspirational
9:25 deadass the most insane wall I've seen.
When I saw the clip I realized I watched a coach ocie video about it the other day
Tank skills that have no downsides is criminal. Fortify losing headshot weakness was one of the biggest braindead move ever to balancing her and made orisa into her meta pick unkillable state now. No matter how you buff or nerf her stat line, fortify itself is the issue given how much other mitigation she has in her kit.
Love the Queen endorsement at the end
It’s still so fucking crazy that they chose to give Mauga CC immunity on his dash. Take it off, if Rien can get sleep darted then so should he.
I can even hinder reins charge with a Cassidy grenade
mauga does not have a shield nor does his charge one-shot
If mauga charges in and gets ccd, he’s literally just insta dead. Also, like mentioned, his dash doesnt one shot nor guarantee a kill any 100% of cases. Rein charge would be broken with cc immun though lol… you cant boop, sleep, stun or anything. That would be absolutely ridiculous
@@SqiddoGD150dmg on his stomp (which can hit multiple enemies btw) is kinda ridiculous
@@SqiddoGD Yet, he gets infinite sustain with crits on his chain gun. Rein doesn't get that and his shield is FINITE. Even then, Reinn charges WITHOUT his shield with a 1-2 second wind up time that is easily telegraphed. Mauga isn't just busted because of his sustain, but because he can peel back with his dash that is easily controllable compared to Reins.
When ram came out i loved the idea of a character centred around manipulating the enemies position, a bit like orisa's pull, i really loved the idea of vortex
So when they were quick to buff him by giving him that 20% speed boost in nemesis form i instantly knew they fucked it
Imo he shouldn't have been given that speed boost, rather he should have been given some buffs to vortex
I admit this is kind of why I started to gravitate towards Mauga over playing rein in brawl situations. Mauga is just more self-sufficient and can go in off angles with no fear because if he gets hit with too much pressure he can just run back to his team. Rein will likely just fucking die if he attempts the same.
Also unlike rein he isn't completely useless against ranged characters. It's actually really satisfying to be able to apply meaningful pressure on flyers and actually solo kill them if they don't have a pocket. Rein has to hit a one in a million firestrike to have any effect on distance opponents and even then, he has to hit two in order to kill them (I don't know if this changed with the Hp increase patch though so even that won't be enough if so).
Turn Ram's block into a self-barrier: blocks damage and CDs from the front, but form goes away when it breaks.
Cardiac Overdrive should be an offensive ability, not a defensive one. He can only double-gun while the cooldown is active, and get rid of the lifesteal. Would probably need more accessible Overrun for better survivability via positioning.
GUT Fortify. Lean into the CC protection and heat reduction, but pull WAY back on the damage reductions. Then, idk, let Terrasurge destroy projectiles from outside the circle so she doesn't immediately fall over. Gotta go within range to shoot her, risk--reward, y'know?
Just my two cents on the goon squad
a better q is how do we balance heroes such that, we could see a more similar hero tier list/pick distribution between pro play, high rank, and at least mid rank.
I will still play Reinhardt regardless of the meta because he is fun to play. I will say the same thing about Winston too. I don’t have any desire to play the “meta tanks,” because, quite frankly, they are boring.
rein is meta though. one of the strongest tank for quite a while now. 2 years since ow2 released he was only bad for 1 season and he is gigabusted since s10. even devs admitted it. they allow it because people dont mind it.
He’s strong as spill said, but not optimal in the “brawl meta”. He doesn’t trade as well with the other brawl tanks but is still better against other comps like poke.
@@Kings-u2t is brawl meta with us in the room rn ?
5:40 not to mention mauga reloads when he uses his ult
True, they should make it so Reinhardt reloads when he ults too
Reinhardt is the original tank design of overwatch 1 and as tank design evolved, or devolved, depending on what you believe, he just got left behind. Tanks in 5v5 needs to be able to do everything at once and sigma is the perfect example of a 5v5 tank. One interesting suggestion for Reinhardt I have is maybe he gets an ability to temporarily transform his big shield into a personal shield in health kinda like what wrecking ball has for like 5 seconds and he can swing or ping during that. This sort of replaces the tank synergy between Zarya and rein with just a press of a button. I think this really fits the 5v5 design goals of the tank, it just removes the need for tank synergy and instead just gives value by default.
Been trying to quit the game for a few months and your channel makes it so hard. I love good Overwatch but good games are just too hard to come by
The same reason as to why people dropped Lucio in favor of Juno, hero kit and team synergy is better with other new heroes. Also because Rein was NEVER made for 5v5 like 2 or 3 other tanks as well.
I’ve played an absurd amount of rein, genuinely used to be able to spawn camp some owl reins. Got him to top 25 in one of his worst metas ever in ow1 until I got mass reported by the top players cause they couldn’t figure it out and hated what I was doing so I got banned twice in one season.
You are completely right that it’s due to good counter play in sigma, Winston, rein but not orisa, ram, mauga etc. Here is a full breakdown of his issues -
1. Hero design/changes - Every hero seems almost designed/updated to give rein a hard time. Orisa ult was changed to pierce barriers making a bad matchup worse. Ram (I believe, didn’t pay much attention to ow2 patch notes) was changed to have speed boost during nemesis to be able to engage/disengage better, hurting rein probably more than any other tank on the roster. Mauga has designed complete immunity cc in his charge ability, I get having a blanket rule but blizzard has bent such rules before. Why not make him and rein even on charge dynamic? Junkerqueen like ram has speed boost that causes such a headache for rein but also a massive pull ability in her knife with such a low cooldown it’s easy for her to use often and extremely punishing, again worse for rein almost moreso than any other tank. If you get pulled once the fight is often over there.
2. Pin ability - going along with point 1, reins pin is his strong ability to gain tempo and value. You have to outplay the enemy tank to draw out their insane cooldown wheel, and when you succeed in that you try to pin… for orisa she has literally every ability to stop you’re pin so it’s hard to create a window. Junkerqueen and ram are insanely hard to pin when they have speed boost because they can very easily react to the reins pin and dodge it, no matter how good you are. But most importantly in my opinion and something they need to change IMMEDIATELY is that the pin hit boxes are actually garbage. It’s hard to pin Jq, like physically hard, never mind the speed and that you can pin when she has knife, but it’s hard to hit her period. Ram is the worst though. He’s got the hitbox of a department store and somehow the pin hitboxes just don’t vibe well with rein. I haven’t tested it, I don’t know the specifics, but it’s something there. It’s absurd that rein can pin a McReee or Ana much more easily that a rein, in nemesis form, which is so wide it’s taking up half a choke point. Nemesis is the particular culprit, it’s like the hitbox was never properly tuned for reins pin, it just feels off. So you can’t even semi reliably try to pin nemesis as a way to drag him off and burn some rams time in the form.
3. Pin damage/punishment - going along with number 2, pin is reins strongest ability to gain advantage but why is it so weak? It’s such a heavy commitment, having to time ALL enemy cooldowns to be able to pin through them and land it. But I land it on an orisa, ram, Jq and I AM WORSE OFF FOR LANDING IT THAN NOT DOING IT AT ALL. It makes no sense. Even if the enemy tank has no support and you pin them into a closed of room if unless you were very significant advantaged going in, you won’t have much of a tempo lead post pin land. You may even be losing. Crazy. I have been calling for a heavy pin damage buff since ow2 drop and I think they recently made it a bit better but it needs a little more. The only dps that were surviving pin at full health were mei (has 2 abilities to dodge it), reaper (has 2 abilities to dodge it, and bastion (can dodge with bade or sheer damage). Why was there ever concern for these heroes when you can just buff the damage significantly and make it a significant tuning fork in the tank matchup? I should be able to pin an enemy tank and really rock them. Issue is it would be pretty oppressive to Winston’s, sigs, etc.
4. Cooldown times - the cooldown rotations especially for these poorly designed tanks like mauga, orisa, ram, Jq is so insane that no matter what you do they have easy and oppressive responses. It is so bad that even if you bait out every ability to land a pin you literally cannot hit a wall before they have 1 or 2 abilities back online that are punishing. The only way you come out strong against these heroes is if you force them to get cooldowns out absurdly fast and then pin them on a short wall not more than 10 feet away. Anything else you are gaining just some tempo (often not worth the risk) or somewhere between that and losing significant tempo because it’s high risk and you get burned. This is a deeper game design flaw, the cooldown rotations need to be fixed. Ow1 was great because you would bait cooldowns and press - the better player was rewarded. That’s no longer the case. I would like to see testing of higher cooldown windows on tanks and to reward the mid play - make ability use rewarding/punishing when landed or missed, when played at the right time, when you can delay using defensive abilities by cleverly using cover, etc. there should be little tempo potential built in, not unlimited cooldown button mashing. I envision a tank role where cooldowns are slower to come back but maybe a larger health pool so it’s fore based on the mid play then insane cooldown cycles. If the devs wanted a smaller fix though- why not improve reins pin recovery? If every dps/healer in the game will be dying to rein pin from point 3, can we possibly make rein recover faster from a landed pin so he does. It immediately get burned by dps/supports int heat bread window? He can be more prepared to block ccs, or even things like Jq knife, he can get another swing started on the enemy tank to get a little more tempo boost. Seems like it would be beneficial.
5. Self heal/instant heal - the tank healing in the game is annoying, it’s dumb, and it’s poorly designed. Rein is a hero that takes space/advantage from the tempo created. It’s really beautiful when you can outmaneuver the enemy and just chip away at their advantage little by little. The wins aren’t always decisive and immediate. You can have 3-4 or more cooldown cycles of tempo improvements and if you are playing perfectly then you constantly get benefit and it is so rewarding. The self heal largely kills that. It just keeps enemy tanks so resilient so easily, it feels cheap. And while I am actually fine with self healing and understand it is needed in some tanks as currently designed the instant buff as seen in orisa and ram is annoying. Clicking a button to instantly jump 150 hl is terrible design (Ram/Orisa), the tempo shift is immediate. It instead should maybe be gradual, or some other solution should be found. But turning it from advantage to you are screwed as rein is a pretty bad feeling. This goes in with the pin comments - you fires pin the enemy tank and upon landing it on them they actually have more health than when you started your pint while also being buffed with strong abilities and movement? Horrible horrible design and gameplay.
I’m sure I could write more and more. It just sucks because I know the game super well I can read it and see - I am significantly outplaying this Ram/Orisa/JQ, I am a significantly better player, I am playing smarter, and at the end of the day it just does not matter. The design is just bad. I would love it if blizzard made any of the changes listed - best would be if they could address the cooldown issues plaguing the game. That would be able to balance rein into these poorly designed tanks without making him too oppressive at lower ranks, but they’d need to make some significant changes which I don’t think the team is capable of (I also told them hot to fix double shield meta for like a year but they’d couldn’t work it out). Otherwise consider even more pin damage, faster recovery post pin, perhaps faster movement with shield, (god forbid) some self heal mechanic, or something else just to bring him current.
I hope I don’t sound like a whiner rein player. I actually enjoy the challenge but the issue is the game design is so poor, and not just in how rein matchups up in it but the design as a whole, that it makes this otherwise beautiful game a complete snooze fest. The raw reward of skill, game sense, intuition, etc is lost. It’s no wonder nobody plays the role, but blizzard simply will never understand.
4:21. cloudy once said a rein buff would be to have shield on pin, i thought he was trolling but after watching this i think he meant it and i think it would help and be fair. it would protect him from the front from CC and the fair part is that it would still use up his shield as a resource so he'd be easier to pressure out after the (shield + pin), just don't force the combo let it be an option to use one or both, no sombra buffs lol
rein is one of the strongest tank in the game if not the strongest. what nerf you gonna give him to compensate ?
@@musicxxa6678 the nerf if that he has less shield up on entry... how is that not a trade off
@@musicxxa6678 he is not since he has 0 range and demands a lot of resources when he gets in his little swing range.He cant access high ground and his firestrikes do not even 2 shot
@musicxxa6678 What are you smoking? Rein the best tank in the game? In what like gold? Silver? I'll give you 3 tanks that absolutely dominate far more than Rein and far more effectively. Winston, Rammatra, Sigma. And they're usually not even the meta tanks, yet they are all far superior to Rein in a majority of cases.
@@zudzhe6085 when did i say rein was the best in the game, the best, or good? think u responded to the wrong comment bro i'm a zar main...
I dont even like rein, BUT if i had that lich king skin I would ONLY play him
11:05 ayo Landon turned into Victor Wembanyama??? 😂
The sound Mauga makes when you press E gives me nightmares.
I'm absolutely team "make tank fun to play, it'll improve the entire game". My favorite tank to play right now is Doom; tons of skill expressions with high risk high reward. If they just let the balance buff up the more fun tanks and let the less fun ones lag, then they can use that under-performance as an excuse to do a rework that leans into keeping them fun to play.
Rein is still my "most played all time" hero because of OW 1 and I remember actually having a ton of fun back then, these days I absolutely refuse to play rectangle man both from just "rein jail" burnout but also because in OW2 he is only ever actually fun if you're completely rolling the other team.
the shield can be bursted down to quickly when it takes forever to recharge.
As a Rein main it warms my heart to hear, even when very strong, Mauga was underpicked solely based on principle lol
Everyone should watch Szyl's video from last year called Why Reinhardt Should Not Be a Meta Hero". It is not a Rein-hate piece. He makes some good philosophical points. Look it up.
i did, Reinhardt Should Not Be a Meta Hero, but at the same time Szyl hardstuck in his unrank to gm for those season that if he can't do it, i think it will be too hard to climb to normal people, not up to be meta, but should be playable in every not smurf game.
In my opinion, it's not a problem of Reinhardt not having free mitigation and ability to multitask, but it's a problem of these other tanks having this ability. The reason why most people hate playing against an Orisa, a Mauga or a Ramattra is because they are constantly outputting pressure and doing what they want and at the same time have a defensive cool-down or passive active. Even Roadhog can't output pressure and get defensive at the same time. It leads to super boring heroes that play almost the exact same no matter if they have the advantage or are about to die, which leads to the feeling of heroes that can play themselves. I think that's especially a problem with Orisa and Mauga, as they both have cool-downs and mechanics that encourage them to shoot for survivability rather than block or get to cover, Ramatra's problem is more that he's just a completely overtuned tank, that Nemesis form is way too omnipresent and forgiving, making it from what should a cool-down to push and pull the default mode of the hero, and that ramatra can just do everything as well or even better than most tanks, he just has more good button than a Rein has buttons period.
You can't fix Rein because it's all in the hero design. He's a close range tank, he can't do anything from afar. He's the only hero who doesn't have a gun (besides Brig, but Brig isn't a real hero anyway). All he has is a melee hammer, and no, firestrikes aren't a "gun". So unless you rework him altogether to have a different kit, he's always gonna be inferior to Sigma, Mauga, Ram, Doom, Dva, etc.
As a mid-high masters rein OTP, i heavily agree that rein's environment is what needs to be changed, not rein himself. The only exception to this is against flying characters as he literally cannot interact with them if they deliberately avoid him (and with the addition to juno, you can make a full flying comp bro who is he gonna swing at?), and you cant exaclty just nerf flying for one character. Everything else tends to be stuff nobody likes and rein will just happen to improve as they get fixed. Bad maps getting reworked, heroes like orisa and mauga becoming less obnoxious, etc.
You think they’ll repeat the same mistakes with phreak?
I feel like Mauga getting a better Charge is so stupid so I feel like….THIS MIGHT SOUND BAD BUT Make it so Overrun functions like Charge where you can get stunned and cc because Mauga literally has no armor or anything so it kinda makes since BUT for rein he has a big ass metal suit so in a sense he could probably handle cc done to him while using charge like maybe make it so when rein charges he’s immune to one Cc ability then once you hit him with that one cc then he can become stunable
That makes sense from a character/lore perspective but not a game design/balance perspective. Mauga doesn't have shield and his run doesn't have near the potential damage or CC that Rein does.
They can't change it from 6v6 to 5v5 and expect the same game. It changes the fundamentals, and most players don't care to understand it. Don't even get me started on MMR and balance
Ive been wanting Rein to passively gain health while holding shield for a long time. That gives low elo Reins a reason to drop shield (you'll heal off the damage) and promotes high rank players conserving their shield when they need the sustain. I've seen it done in Paladins with Khan (who also has JQs shout) and the kit felt really good, even as a solo tank.
Doesn’t the healing passive already allow this to happen? Just takes a while to activate though.
Spilo, what do I do as a DPS when my Tank dies? Let's say a fight that starts as a 5v5 and turns into a 4v5 because my tank died, what I'm I supposed to do as a DPS? Idk if that's enough info to off of but usually I either look for a trade or fall back with my team, trying to keep my supports alive.
I mean, as a sig player, I understand the pain of rein players. getting shoved into a wall just sucks. I hate brawl so much, but it is way too effective right now. Not only does it automatically group the team, but people can simply shoot whoever and it usually works, unlike dive or even poke.
The thumbnail is so fucking funny
There are two Rein one tricks in the top 10 currently.
where can sign up for your coaching?
I'm a Rein main and i knew something was off with him, but your explanation made everything so clear.
So, i'll TRY to cook here. Two major Rein weaknesses are lack of multitasking and verticality, so:
Multitasking: Let him drop his shield. While holding right click, press R to drop his shield to the ground. Like Ram's shield.
Now you can let your shield standing on it's own, while you hammer, charge, etc.
Verticality: Charge should work like Venture's drill. You can aim upwards to get to a high ground.
Pinning people should only work when charge is used on the ground. If you charge upwards, you should just boop people. (being able to pin flying characters mid-air sounds too op)
So, did I cook? I really wanna hear everyone's opinion.
Btw, thanks Spilo. You inspired me to imagine and write all that.
What if rather than dropping his shield we just give him a shield with larger health 2000 hp and let it be much more flexible by removing movement speed negation OR we give him an immunity of 5 secs after his shield is destroyed?
I like the latter cuz it enables him creativity like him charging into enemy lines with low hp shield and then his 5 sec immunity as attacking and escape.
@@Dios_of_Autumn-1999i think more shield health or no speed penalty. Rein would already lowkey shoot up to meta if he could walk at regular speed with a 1600hp shield if it was bigger it might be kinda broken.
@@WockMonkey I am a rein main and I say no he wouldnt. Why? Because it doesnt solve his most annoying problems which is counterwatch. just existing 5 secs without a shield in frontlines is a death sentence. I could go more into how much problematic it is as a rein to play in a battlefield and how boring his gameplay could get because of his limited options. Charge is not very effective either for escaping and killing enemies so its typically used as part of his melee kit. Shield is easily counterable as dives and pokes have ways to hit you. Ashe bomb, Ana grenade and junkrat... literally being junkrat can easily ruin your position as you are always forced to fall back. Rein is severely team reliant.
Saying that making is shield bigger/removing movement speed penalty while shielding will make him meta is as ignorant as saying the earth is flat.
If he could drop his shield it would have to get nerfed a ton like sigma shield to allow him to do more and respectful no he shouldn't get verticality he's more brawl oriented that's like giving Orisa flight lol
Its crazy how the devs shower rein with these Collab skins yet not once they don't fix the actual problem with rein and thats how slow he is. Rein needs the perfect comp to actually rush in and get value but usually that value doesn't last long since counter swapping makes him get less value.
So Reinhardt is just the duck from duck chess...
Say what you will about ow1 orisa, but she had a better design foundation than ow2 orisa.
Her counterplay SHOULD HAVE BEEN to get up close in her face. A poke tank: great at range, but falls apart up close. Once you get past her shield, she’s in trouble. Fortify should have been 30% damage reduction max, and NO HEADSHOT RESISTANCE. Even bongo had counterplay, as you could break it (100hp)
Nowadays she’s just brainless mitigation.
Block (Doom & Ram) and Fortify and their brainless mitigation are a pox on this game.
Got suspended for playing too much JQ, those duo ques got me :(
Personally i dislike the idea of just making more Reinhardt as i don't find him as fun id prefer more interesting characters like queen and less like zarya that are just too simple
I get that people like using rein has the "gold standard" but i really don't think that he should be the example that we use to balance everyone else
Give rein a one handed weapon to use when he's blocking
5v5 happened
Really tired of the bad tank design in OW lately. It’s like they just do not understand the game still after all this time.
the thing i really dislike is that rein only has 2 positive tank matchups. sigma and rein. Yes Rein is a positive matchup against himself. rein pin does well against another rein, or stuns the other rein at least, rein stops shatter and is the most consistent tank at doing so, rein doesnt care about rein shield. in the mirror i dont think its about the individual reins per say but it comes down to what comp and how competent each team is playing against a rein. ive played on teams that cannot stay alive vs a rein where as i just get looked at by all 5 enemy players, ive also been on the opposite side of the coin where im dominating a team because they refuse to help their rein player even though i know hes doing fine. and especially now that matchmaking for tanks is a lot tighter i really believe i got rid of the mtds in the rein mirror.
Could almost put monkey in there too bc if he tries to jump on me you just hit him in the face and he has to leave but monkey has better range pressure and his shield is lowkey better too
Imo the problem is rein in 5v5. If he's able to play the game he's basically permanently on you and that locks out a lot of heros in the roster. The only thing you can do is play a hero he can't reach and then the rein players are not having a good time, imo there is almost no scenario where both teams have an even remotely enjoyable game. He should not be changed until after the 6v6 tests, because if we go back reworking him is a bad idea, he is peak design for 6v6, not 5v5.
make fire strike the secondary fire with reduced damage and no player peirce
I've been seeing a lot of rein played in gold lobbies
There is nothing wrong with rein it's OW2 that needs to change.
I actually really like tank ults that give you more mitigation, one of the few things I like about orisa and ram. Its so satisfying to finally earn your ult and be able to run rampant without fear of wasting your cooldown. Especially on winston with primal. I can see the argument that these ults need to take longer to charge though, or be more skillfull (primal my beloved)
Kiriko happened
5v5 happened.
these comments man. he just explained that it's because of the design of other brawl tanks overshadowing rein and you just ignore all of it and say "5v5" when these problems would still exist in 6v6. come on
Reinhardt was barely played at the end of OW1 as well, it has nothing to do with the 5v5 or 6v6 format but how Reinhardt has to take risks that other thanks have cooldowns to counter
@@riven756 no those problems wouldn't neccessarily exist in 6v6. In 6v6 you have offtanks who cover your weaknesses and/or amplify your strenghts.
@@marcel7253 what off tank combo would specifically solve the issues of rein having less effective mitigation, ability to push/pull, and a worse ultimate in comparison to mauga, ram, and orisa?
@@riven756matrix, bubble, sig shield, simply other tank peeling for rein is enough for rein to survive longer and mitigate more damage
I love 5v5 because the tanks weaknesses and strengths are the path a team should play upon with 6v6 it’s just avoiding the enemy tanks strengths and it’s relatively hard to try to exploit any tank’s weaknesses most tanks have everything in their kit to be balanced it’s just how to balance it. Ram seems like the most versatile tank but even against Reinhardt he has no speed comparatively, this is obviously just an example but these tanks don’t have to do everything they just have to be okay with doing anything, it doesn’t feel like that as tank when reinhardt is forced to use shield he feels like he sucks because that’s not what he wants to do he wants to get up close and hit multiple people with the hammer but it should be tidied to his ability to engage like the speed boost idea when shield is broken or something similar. This is not bad design this would be awesome for both sides weighing whether or not shooting shield is worth it because it’s normally a free resource with nobody behind it but now there’s a trade off and going through is a well thought out decision
The fact that Rein can't do anything else while he has his shield up is a big problem. Especially in 5v5 when every other tank can do something else when they put up a shield, or some other defense ability. Also call me crazy, but I think fire strike should set people on fire
Orisa and Mauga are the most boring characters to play IMO. When they’ve been good I just play something else
Rein's movement speed is way too slow for OW2 tanks, and on top of with every other tanks can multitask, that community mode change is literally what he needed. (Speed boost while shield gets damaged by %)
For the love of god allow him to walk faster. I’m sick of every hero being able to back peddle faster than I can walk forward
5v5 is what happened to Reinhardt
The woke mob got him 😔
True, I preferred when he hated Omnics.
Screw those clankers.
Reinhardt for President 2080 MAKE AMERICA HONORABLE (& glorious) AGAIN
Its 5v5, its always 5v5, save yourself 15 minutes.
Playing OW for so many years now rein is just boring to me and the newer ow2 players seem to think a similar way even without having played the first game so maybe that has an influence on the devs but im just riffing
let pin grab more than one person 😀😀👍👍👍
reinhardt is not sigma
He is a sigma male though
I can’t wait for all the metal rank players to start asking for Rein buffs because he’s not being played when this doesn’t affect them at all lol
Busted no skill cheeze hero. Gigabuffed to the moon because of balance bias of buffoon devs
and your very talented and skill based hero is ??? let me guess spamming corners with junkrat or hanzo
Rein has such an outdated design. The whole meta is shield and shoot or Brawl and sustain. Rein is ONLY shield and Brawl. Firestrikes lack range and Rein has no sustain besides shield. For a close range hero, he’s too slow and relies on so much more healing than other tanks.
if rein had 3000 hit points, all the pros would play him,,,, they don't play rein because his numbers are too low,, first and foremost
sure, if you have synergy, that's too be noted
but it's all about the numbers man :)
I think they should just nerf tanks in general, the game is 1D in ranked
Can we talk about how corny Reinhard players tend to be) I’m pretty sure most of us have encountered the classic player that keeps role playing and talks about honor and stuff like that… it’s genuinely so embarrassing
I think that's the best part about Rein players, they really like the char and I think that's wonderful to see
oh my god what is wrong with you, "eMbAriSinG" sorry not all of us treat this cool game like its some high school simulator, it says alot about you that you do not see the value in Honor and that which drives righteous actions into fruition. And if it bothers you so much then just mute em, you'll do the rest of the team a favor
No but we can talk about how corny and embarrassing this comment is.
@ found the cornball rein player
Idk bro i have that much lower on the prio list. Lets deal with his mercy her genji first 💀
If you buff him because comp kids want to have Reinhart meta you're going to ruin pubs. Competitive balance ruined OW jfc
????? what kind of backwards logic is this