I live in East Tn and have looked for 50 years, and I have found 25 broken ones a few single holes.Every time I go out, I say today's the day to find a perfect one.never give up.
This is so good! One thing for sure you are one person I listen to as I feel you do your research. I do appreciate you and your time you have put into your videos. Thank you.
Ok but now you have to explain why there’s no teeth on the whole ones… whatever it was they didn’t get rid of it because it broke and it seems to have taken on new meaning once it broke, it’s fascinating..
Maybe for trade. The gorget gets deliberately broken and the person with the small part owes the person with the large part $50, or a buffalo hide. The notches mean the debt was paid.
Great video as usual Scott . Very informative a lot to think about . I have only found pieces of them over the years Thanks again for the Great video . I'm glad you got Rockys water fixed
I figured it wasn't worn tight against the neck but more like a necklace hanging lower. The tally marks could be battles or kills or an act of bravery/counting coup type deal.
Just a theory, from reading fictional Ancient Native Americans books. The Gorget was worn on the high part of the chest and was held by twine or wire around the neck like a necklace and pendent. Only high rulers, Chiefs or Chieftess could wear them and the marks on them were the years they had ruled.
I never heard of these before, so this is really interesting. My first thought being totally uneducated on these, was it was used for fishing, like a weight for a rope line or a net. Love your videos! Thank you.
Great video! I’m imagining something like a cross between a dog tag and war medals, so others could see if you were a decorated warrior? Perhaps the broken corner signifies a large number like 10 or 20 or maybe marks an act of valor in battle? So many good theories in the comments
Very informative Herr Clegg. I’ve rock hunted for 50+ years and I’ve only found broken ones. I would like to hear your theories on banner stones. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Mike from Ky.
I remember finding my first broken one walking my grandfather's field and I was shaking with excitement 😂 I found a quite remarkable double-groved ax nearby as well, probably 50 feet at most. The ax is something special, the author and Native American expert Robert (Bob) Converse tried to buy it from me 20 years ago. I always wondered if there was a connection between the two artifacts and hypothesize that their previous owner may have met an untimely fate in the location I found them. Again, the ax is different from most examples in our area (Ohio) and in remarkable condition, it stands out and not the type of thing I imagine would have been easily lost or misplaced. Now a possible connection between gorgets and battle practices? My fragment has a notch on it! Man I love this stuff lol I gotta come hang out sometime, what trip.
Very cool! Definitely gets ya thinking 🤔. One thought I had was, any long term record keeping using the tally marks could explain the damage to the ones that were used longer. So like if there was a tally mark for each child born into a family group then that gorget would be sitting around or carried for decades possibly, and every moment of every day it has a chance to get damaged. So over a really long period the chance of damage is greatly increased. I would definitely break it if I was carrying it around for 20 years. 😅
Hey Scott. I have been enjoying your channel. I grew up near the St. Albans and Amos sites. Tried to message you through Facebook but without success. Your recent post on slate artifacts intrigues me. I have several slate pieces with tally marks from the Kanawha River bank, which is very similar to the area you are working. Don't know if you ever make it to the Charleston area but would love for you to see my collection someday. Keep up the good work.
I found a 3 hole one back in 2005 before I knew what they were. Me and my wife were walking in the river looking for cool stuff to pick up. She wanted me to throw it back. On that same trip , I found another shaped stone that unfortunately got misplaced or thrown out.
it's a fid for making a fishing net. pick one hole feed your line through it tie a knot so it can't pull through. it doesn't matter which hole. then wrap line around it in a figure eight using those tally marks to hold line in place. it's called a fid. Alaskans' still use them. put that in your pipe and smoke it.
I'm with you. I think it's a practical tool. Your explanation makes a lot of sense to me. Im from Georgia and found half of one made from soapstone, a relatively soft material. Strong enough to be a tool for making nets but not strong enough for battle or daily wear as some suggest. I found my piece near a river where there would have been good fishing. The side has notches and the end has a notch in the middle that kinda makes it look like a fish tail. I'm sold on your suggestion!
After looking around on YT, I found an archeology video discussing paleolithic European batons. You may find it interesting. Practically the same type of device, just built with different materials and shape. Im now convinced that these flat stones with holes are North American batons for making rope or twine. Thanks for the suggestion about rope making! Here's that video that I found if you're interested.
Absolutely I'm going to go with that it's a tool used for making Nets and or weaving like someone else suggested. which is in the similar category because they're still using them in Alaska! someone do research. you have Google at your disposal now!. and get it down to facts!!! instead of so much gess work guys,,!!. Think about this ! For example! it's similar to the atlatl spear thrower!! right!! the spear thrower as an example. we didn't know what they were at first, right! But now we know,,,you find they still using Atlatles spear throwers in Africa and places like that today!!!! and it clearly shows that many of these tools and weapons have survived in use,,, that were popular in olden days right up till modern days in the bush in different parts of the world! Therefore someone commented and said they're still using them in Alaska!... well there you have a very ancient culture that still active there you go. there's a super good example of how to find out what they really are! I would lean on that reality more than any guesswork😊
Interesting thoughts Scott. Never heard of them being found here in Colorado but have seen many Pendants with tally marks. I also have a piece of shell that's about an inch long with tally marks. It does create a ton of thought doesn't it? Thanks for sharing Scott and many blessings.
loop rope thru the holes and twist it up in the middle then pull on each end of the loops it should start spinning real fast making probably a loud noise for alerting or something...i dont know thats just a guess...
Over here on the West Coast we do not find those flat pieces. We do find rounded shaped stones tapered down at both ends. They are sometimes called charm stones. They're about the same size but without the holes or tally marks. Because this is near a delta area I think they are net weights and large examples of beautiful nets ( as charcoal ) have been found. Also spindle whorls to make the string or twine.
The tally's are very interesting on those pieces! What if it was some sort of trade item / some sort of "monetary" system, perhaps a means of signifying debts owed, or trade deals made for certain things. Or Perhaps it was used in some sort of marriage ceremony and it signified how many wives one had? Do we know if they were worn by both women and men? Very interesting video Clegg, much love for posting this! And love the collection.
G'day Mr Clegg. Just something from left field. Australian Aborigines used to tie a flat piece of wood to a string and swing it around making a vibrating noise they say could be heard or sensed over many miles (See Crocodile Dundee 1 where Hogan actually does it). Dont know how that would work with rock, but how many pieces (perhaps with wood) may have been used? Anyway, the cuts in the stone could have made a different vibration or frequency? And if the string or rope breaks, the rock goes flying and breaks..? Or is it designed to spin? Some rope making device? Cheers. Like your show and the passion.
As I'm new to arrow head. Artifacts hunting... I have a few. Through my metal detecting. I met a guy here in north central iowa.... sadly he passed away about 2 yrs ago.... he had a private collection that he had showed me he hunted and collected over 65 yrs.... ? His home and garage was full of artifacts... told me he Found from Mexico to noviaskotia... Canada Alaska... belive me his find belonged in a museum He had said as he showed these treasures to me... no pictures, no Facebook... didn't want his privacy invaded... Not sure what has now has become of his collection.....? Grand kids???? He had grinding stones, bird traps, axes. Arrow heads, pottery, pipes, bones. And fossiles,,, even show me mammoth I r mastodon droppings...... RIP. Levenhagen.......
Good ideas mentioned. Several hours were spent on many of these to manufacture. And the material used like slate, cannel coal, and other similar materials were very thin making them very fragile. Keep that in mind. Also, there are many examples made of soapstone(steatite) which is more durable.Some show wear coming from the drill-holes and angled towards the center of the gorget maybe due to cordage being inserted and tight . Thanks for bringing up and discussing this real cool artifact type!
All solid ideas. I like the game idea because although they definitely had conflicts. I'd guess far more peaceful times and all cultures have need for leisure. But the emphasis on rarity leans more towards status or perhaps gifts between clans/tribe...cool breakdown brother see ya on the river bank
Almost every time you see a broken one it is in close proximity to a drilled hole. Obviously the unit was made weaker at the hole. I have wrestled for years with the question if the gorget was broken during production and tossed or broken by other external forces such as contact with rocks in the ground or in streams.It would be interesting what others think on this subject.
Have you seen Viking Weaving Tablets? They are clever squares made of bone/horn/wood with four holes and to get different weaving patterns they rotate forward/backward. They made belts and straps this way. Perhaps these were two string versions (someone noted they found a three hole version in the comments). Notches could differentiate the ends for keeping to the pattern they wanted more easily and why different notch numbers or chipped ends could still be used. They would get easily broken and lost anytime a tribe was viciously attacked by another as with everything else broken and scattered. The fishnet idea could fit here as well as the Eskimo uses already noted.
Love watching your videos. When I see that, I think of a tool for measurement. A standard unit of measure for the tribe. It would be something that was used and contacted to many objects. In use, being such a brittle material as slate it can be chipped or broken easy. Blank ones would not have been used and likely not be damaged. Just another idea. Thanks!
I believe it's a practical tool that has something to do with tying system. It could be for fishing line, fishing net or building a strong string for bow where you would twist two strings into one and use another string to wrap around two strings together as you pull along to build a stronger bow string. It would help to know if those tools were found near water or by their ancient ruin sites as clues.
If you find this video that says "Stone age people made hundreds of these...why?", go to 9:25 and you will see how twine rope is made of, using fiber plants and the rope itself is very strong. It depends on how thick you want to make.
Hey!!! I've got a couple of slate gorgets. two or three of them! but they are shaped more like a half moon,, and they have no holes! And I got them from an old woman in Missouri. I noticed them in her antique flea market shop,, and she said,, o!! those old rocks!! we br ought them back from the farm we used to have a dairy farm in Iowa!! and we found those in the fields. I'd be glad to send you a picture of them! tell me what you think? this is Mark a In Southern Missouri Ozarks.
I have several gorgets. I found a broken slate gorget that is scored when I was very young in Warren Co, OhiO. (go number 1 Buckeyes!!!). I have purchased several others also from OH-IO. One is "fringed."
Sometime read William E Richie' s works/books. The archeology editions. I lived all over new England. Saw a lot. Once my friend found a ceremonial dog burial at the 10,ooo yr level....according to Mr. Richie 's carbon dating of that stratus level. Marthas Vineyard was loaded with rock artifacts. I've seen all types of gorges from that area. You are impressive. Love your work. Wish I could visit you. Thank you. Todd P.
My son goes to school out in Ohio, we will be spending some time up there this spring, would love to go searching with you sometime so I could learn from you. Love your channel.
I found one, took it to the mississippi archeological association meeting they have monthly. The archeologists there told me it was a broken one, that had been repurposed. It was broken past on of the holes, so the one hole it has, is on the wide end. I had no clue what it was, until I took it to that meeting. It has no score marks, he told me it was made of slate, and that we do not have slate here in Mississippi. I wished I could share some pics on here, definitely the coolest thing I've ever found. I like your theory, and would like to hear what you think of plummets. I definitely don't buy into the fish net weight theory. I don't necessarily buy into the Bola theory, though it makes a little more sense. Also how does a flaked chert adze get polished on the tip. I've found 2 with polished tips, one of them is museum quality.
Hey clegg love your channel youre a real adventurer and explorer and i think you should take trips around the country and host a creek dig to encourage locals to keep their creeks and rivers clean as well as encourage them to look for and salvage artifacts that would otherwise be bulldozed or altogether ignored and forgotten. Also, i have a theory for the Gor-get. I feel like natives were intimately in tune and harmony with the sky and celestial heavens. What about using the Gore-get as a primitive clock or a compass? Idk just a guess. Like maybe the hole would be the sun and notches the different directions or times of day?? Just a guess. But my thinking is more along the lines of astronomical or compass or clock practical purposes. Lmk what you think of that haha. Thanks for doing what youre doing.
I have anticipated this video. I have only seen one a friend of mine found 45 years ago, it was whole with the exception of one tally mark. And the very tip on the reverse side had a deep score mark but it never made it through the stone. I have only found pieces of them in 50+years and they were all snapped off .there is just know answer to this puzzle, and it itches my brain. I lived in Calhoun County Illinois years ago and the bluff behind my house was a mound when they Excavated the mound there was a Mummified bob cat with several of his dogs and wives and a 14"copper spike ,a solid copper spud. And some Obsidian points. Absolutely amazing video thank you
Always enjoy my Friend, I like your theory of a "score card" makes good sense, weather it be for battle or hunting. I've notched my deer rifle for the last 40 years. We'll probably never know for sure, but those tally marks stood for something? Great video Sir.👍
I have one from Western Pennsylvania- Broken but 75% there. Been looking at it for a while and the break looks to be ground over even though it broke on one hole. It’s very thick too (expanded center gorget) I think the theory about war or wrestling are the best ones I have heard yet considering the conditions of the notched ones.
I'm with you that these artifacts had some other use than ornamentation and religious ceremonies. Drilling holes is a difficult tedious task and so you'd want a practical reason for making these. Plus making them in softer materials to make fast for their use.
I wonder if they could be a form of contract. The notches would indicate payments and when the contract was fulfilled, the gorget would be broken to signify full payment? So many horses, so many pelts, so many of whatever and the debt holder would keep the record and maybe give it to the debtor to break when the debt was discharged . Why make something out of material that can easily be broken if they were not made to be broken? The Native Americans certainly knew how to make durable goods; this seems to be fragile for a reason.
Slate is so soft and brittle they couldn't have been used for anything of hard work! But I have thought that maybe they were used as a spoon or like a mixing trowel for mixing flour or seeds and with the notches you could use it for a knife for cutting soft bread😅 or it could have been fastened do your Buckskin like a badge! But used for eating gruel kind of like a butter knife a kitchen or eating utensil or even for softening buckskin jackets or clothing that got wet and used it for smoothing it out getting it soft again
Hey Scott. I'll give you my 2 cents worth. I've racked by brain over the years trying to imagine what a lot of the implements left behind by prehistoric man in the Americas were used for. I've come to the conclusion some of them were used in weaving in one way or another. These gorgets may, and I stress may, have been used to make cordage. Maybe rope, twine, or even bow string. If you look how ropes are made today, or in our recent past, the strings go through a block or piece of wood kind of like a gorget to keep the lines at an even distance then twisted, or spun, to make the cord or rope. They could have also been attached to a loom as part or the process of weaving or making a cord which was spun and then woven to make rugs, mats, or even clothing. Just a theory of mine but some of it certainly falls into place. We may never know for sure. It's kinda like "nutting" stones which are now many thought to be fire starter stones and drill platforms. I try to keep my mind open to new ideas that come along instead of being hardened into one belief or dogmatic about something. Who knows, maybe one day we'll find out for sure.
After looking at them the limestone one has two and a half holes,no notchs the banded slate piece is a corner of what would have been a really beautiful piece it's purple black banded slate,
I just always figured they were a tribal identifier attached to clothing, hide, or otherwise. Their size suggest they were able to be seen from a safe distance. I also think birdstones are in fact walking cane tops. The drilling through the bottom front and back suggest they were mounted to a flat topped tee handle cane. I plan on making one soon as i can find a replica. Interestingly enough, that was a strange location for a propane heater above the fridge, lol.
With no other information and just based on looking at it, I would guess a fishing tool, like for winding line or string. But knowing how easy it is to break slate, I don't think so. I've seen similar looking homemade items in old tackle boxes that were made of wood with string wrapped around them that were used for bank lines. Honestly, being made of slate, I would also guess those are some sort of jewelry or for ceremonial use. Maybe even a buckle for belts.
Youve got to be correct if so. I even have an friend who was once the Pres. for the Archaeological Society of Ohio, who has never been able to explain this. It really does make sense.
I've no familiarity with slate. Could it be from the stress of making the tally mark? Good to see you back again! (Somehow my notifications got turned off) I thought you'd gotten stuck in the past while making one of your time travel videos!
Those are very interesting theories. A record of some accomplishment (sports or battle) combining as a "badge" of honor.... maybe?? I know a couple of things. They were cherished because of the skill and time to make them (like jewelry), and they were worn somehow on the body to show or remind folks of something recorded. Keep up the good work and keep telling us your thoughts on these found remnants of long ago.
I have a whole gorget except for a tiny piece on one side corner. The tally marks are visible but are scratch marks not grooved, notched or serrated. When I found it in the creek a design was clearly visible wet. The design doesn't show as well dry but is visible. It's a dark, smooth surface slate about 3.5" x I.5" with 2 holes drilled in it. found it in Sugar Creek near Crawfordsville, Indiana several years ago panning for gold. There's gold in Hoosier creeks. I had to buy a book Indian Artifacts of the Midwest to find out what it was. I found one artifact with grooves & a hole drilled through that wasn't in the book.
Oh the dreaded gorget! Very hard to find a whole one. I believe they were worn on the person as some kind of ornamental object. I've found several pieces of them myself. Best 1 is approximately half there, broke at the hole, and I think it was a single hole piece, or possibly 2 close together. I found a piece of I believe to be a pendant, and found another piece 18 years later that fits together with the first piece, and STILL don't have it all 😔 I've also found pieces of wing bannerstones and have 2 that fit together! Also have half of one, broken thru the long hole and has a repair hole. All but 1 of these is made from banded slate, none have evidence of notches. The only pc not of banded slate is an absolutely perfect field find of a tan material harder than sandstone, 3"+ L × 2"+ W, convex long sides with smaller flat ends. But it's not drilled. Shucks Great vid Clegg!👍 I tend to agree with your theorys across the board.
I believe they are a weaving tool for making baskets. Look up basket weaving tools alot of similarity. I have no idea what the notches are for . Maybe how many years or experience or measurements so all stitching is the same.
@@cleggsadventures Me either. I would like to know. Me and my wife Michelle loves your videos. We artifact hunt here in Florida. If we did what you do here on the banks of the river we would go to jail. We used to scuba dive for them until they changed the law not allowing it. They have know problem with paving over Archaeological sites. Crazy !
Amazing, I love trying to figure out what they did with things. I have a couple odd ball artifacts I can’t find any info on. And then those blunted points that seem to have zero use but they clearly ground them after the point was unusable… why? I think about it often… I feel like the bases had some kind of use. With just a notched base and no actual point it reminds me of some kite string holders I’ve seen, maybe they could wrap thread on them and they ground it down so as not to cut the thread? Idk but they were grinding down unusable points for a reason On the gorgets… are the notches the same number on each side for all gorgets? If it’s always the same on each side I don’t think it would be a tally mark cause why would you add it to each side? If there’s some with one extra on the opposite side that could imply tally marks. Just a thought, could be wrong.
My only question about your theory is that shale is so brittle, that in a rough event or rough usage it would be easily broken and new ones would have to be constantly made...therefore there should be lots of them to replace the broken ones. I believe them to be ceremonial ...to be looked at during special occasions...worn only by the chief or the highest ranking members. The notches represent "tally" marks for sure, but we may never know from one culture and context to the next what it means.
In our times, we wear the yellow stripes for every 3 years of service. I know you know this fact. I like where your mind is going with this. Each battle earns a notch ❤
I've got two broken ones, one banded slate with one hole,and the other limestone has a hole then broken at the second hole ,I'll have two have another closer look at them
Good theory, well thought out. Here's another along those lines. What if they were a form of score keeping trophy from the ball games they played? They took those very seriously so they would have had a mark of honor for winning? Just a thought.
I lived in eastern Tenn & I saw them in a small museum of sorts. He said they were used to hold a skin or blanket together , gathered at the bottom of the throat .. Some were decorated & some were simply practical ..(according to him) It didnt make sense to me , but he claimed to be "part native" and he certainly had a huge collection of artifacts .. That was back in the 80's & I've not heard anything definitive since...
The old tent stake slide adjuster is a plank of wood with two holes to slide up and down the line , I believe they were cape adjusters to open and close the top like stings on a hoodie. The notches would have made a weak spot where the break would have started from , most broken ones start in a groove of the notch and go across the piece or go through a hole . The adjuster would have set below the chin having it in the right spot . But you got pop eye bird stones and all amounts of things we don’t even recognize properly they just made what they needed and the human mind has no limits really.
A close friend of mine who had never arrow head hunted before came over one day and said let's go to that arrowhead spot in the creek you were telling me about. I declined, but told him where it was. Two or three hours later he came back with a four inch butterbean shaped Gorget two holes polished no chips. he said I walked up onto the bridge (culvert) and looked in the water and there it was about six inches below the surface right on top of the mud. It was NOT slate but a off cream yellow color hard indigenous chert (?) of central Mississippi. I never went back to that creek.
Brother, that's a cool sounding theory !!!😎✌️ Never found any gorget parts, myself.... Maybe someday, and I will check for the tallie marks !!!!⛏️⛏️⛏️⛏️⛏️🍀🍀🍀🍀✌️😎
I have read that they were weights on an atlatl that helped increase the speed of the dart. I tend to think the marks were for animals killed but who knows?
I live in East Tn and have looked for 50 years, and I have found 25 broken ones a few single holes.Every time I go out, I say today's the day to find a perfect one.never give up.
Good luck--hope you find one. I have only found one whole one myself. East Tenn. ,too
This is so good! One thing for sure you are one person I listen to as I feel you do your research. I do appreciate you and your time you have put into your videos. Thank you.
@@timdefelice2570 Much Appreciated
It looks like a tool for weaving. The cut teeth could be used for lining up fibers.
@@seal7987 Not Sure.
I agree. It is for weaving blankets.
Why would the holes be put in them?
@@subzjc For horizontal weave against vertical fabric in a frame
Ok but now you have to explain why there’s no teeth on the whole ones… whatever it was they didn’t get rid of it because it broke and it seems to have taken on new meaning once it broke, it’s fascinating..
Maybe for trade. The gorget gets deliberately broken and the person with the small part owes the person with the large part $50, or a buffalo hide. The notches mean the debt was paid.
Great video as usual
Scott . Very informative a lot to think about . I have only found pieces of
them over the years
Thanks again for the
Great video . I'm glad you got Rockys
water fixed
Thanks Bill. Rocky says hey
I figured it wasn't worn tight against the neck but more like a necklace hanging lower. The tally marks could be battles or kills or an act of bravery/counting coup type deal.
Just a theory, from reading fictional Ancient Native Americans books. The Gorget was worn on the high part of the chest and was held by twine or wire around the neck like a necklace and pendent. Only high rulers, Chiefs or Chieftess could wear them and the marks on them were the years they had ruled.
I never heard of these before, so this is really interesting. My first thought being totally uneducated on these, was it was used for fishing, like a weight for a rope line or a net. Love your videos! Thank you.
@Colorado68 Probably too much work to take a chance on losing it
I don’t think slate in small pieces would be the best source for net weights as they are comparatively light weight as compared to river rocks, etc.
Great video! I’m imagining something like a cross between a dog tag and war medals, so others could see if you were a decorated warrior? Perhaps the broken corner signifies a large number like 10 or 20 or maybe marks an act of valor in battle? So many good theories in the comments
Clegg, I believe your broken combat theory is spot on. Thanks for sharing.
@@davidmerritt5702 Much Appreciated
Good observing. The idea of use for weaving - like a spindle is mentioned below. What about for fishing?
Very informative Herr Clegg. I’ve rock hunted for 50+ years and I’ve only found broken ones. I would like to hear your theories on banner stones. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Mike from Ky.
I remember finding my first broken one walking my grandfather's field and I was shaking with excitement 😂
I found a quite remarkable double-groved ax nearby as well, probably 50 feet at most. The ax is something special, the author and Native American expert Robert (Bob) Converse tried to buy it from me 20 years ago. I always wondered if there was a connection between the two artifacts and hypothesize that their previous owner may have met an untimely fate in the location I found them. Again, the ax is different from most examples in our area (Ohio) and in remarkable condition, it stands out and not the type of thing I imagine would have been easily lost or misplaced. Now a possible connection between gorgets and battle practices? My fragment has a notch on it! Man I love this stuff lol I gotta come hang out sometime, what trip.
Very cool! Definitely gets ya thinking 🤔. One thought I had was, any long term record keeping using the tally marks could explain the damage to the ones that were used longer. So like if there was a tally mark for each child born into a family group then that gorget would be sitting around or carried for decades possibly, and every moment of every day it has a chance to get damaged. So over a really long period the chance of damage is greatly increased. I would definitely break it if I was carrying it around for 20 years. 😅
@@canheaton Good point there for sure. Older things do get damaged over time
Hey Scott. I have been enjoying your channel. I grew up near the St. Albans and Amos sites. Tried to message you through Facebook but without success. Your recent post on slate artifacts intrigues me. I have several slate pieces with tally marks from the Kanawha River bank, which is very similar to the area you are working. Don't know if you ever make it to the Charleston area but would love for you to see my collection someday. Keep up the good work.
@@RickRogers-q1n Much Appreciated Rick. If Im ever that way, I’ll look ya up
Keep up the great work!!!!
Much Appreciated.
I found a 3 hole one back in 2005 before I knew what they were. Me and my wife were walking in the river looking for cool stuff to pick up. She wanted me to throw it back. On that same trip , I found another shaped stone that unfortunately got misplaced or thrown out.
@@shakascloset1700 Nice Find
thank you for this Clegg it is new to me.
Much Appreciated
it's a fid for making a fishing net. pick one hole feed your line through it tie a knot so it can't pull through. it doesn't matter which hole. then wrap line around it in a figure eight using those tally marks to hold line in place. it's called a fid. Alaskans' still use them. put that in your pipe and smoke it.
I'm with you. I think it's a practical tool. Your explanation makes a lot of sense to me. Im from Georgia and found half of one made from soapstone, a relatively soft material. Strong enough to be a tool for making nets but not strong enough for battle or daily wear as some suggest. I found my piece near a river where there would have been good fishing. The side has notches and the end has a notch in the middle that kinda makes it look like a fish tail. I'm sold on your suggestion!
After looking around on YT, I found an archeology video discussing paleolithic European batons. You may find it interesting. Practically the same type of device, just built with different materials and shape. Im now convinced that these flat stones with holes are North American batons for making rope or twine. Thanks for the suggestion about rope making! Here's that video that I found if you're interested.
ua-cam.com/video/Q8X9l42ZgsU/v-deo.htmlsi=XpZciuOYInTSf_vs
cough
Absolutely I'm going to go with that it's a tool used for making Nets and or weaving like someone else suggested. which is in the similar category because they're still using them in Alaska! someone do research. you have Google at your disposal now!. and get it down to facts!!! instead of so much gess work guys,,!!. Think about this ! For example! it's similar to the atlatl spear thrower!! right!! the spear thrower as an example. we didn't know what they were at first, right! But now we know,,,you find they still using Atlatles spear throwers in Africa and places like that today!!!! and it clearly shows that many of these tools and weapons have survived in use,,, that were popular in olden days right up till modern days in the bush in different parts of the world! Therefore someone commented and said they're still using them in Alaska!... well there you have a very ancient culture that still active there you go. there's a super good example of how to find out what they really are! I would lean on that reality more than any guesswork😊
Stick the end in the correct hole on a Rock at the Top of the Correct Mountain and look through the Holes.
ur the best im from mingo county wva coal country ur channel is the best now staying in columbus
Much Appreciated
U need to look at more UA-camrs then
Interesting thoughts Scott. Never heard of them being found here in Colorado but have seen many Pendants with tally marks. I also have a piece of shell that's about an inch long with tally marks. It does create a ton of thought doesn't it? Thanks for sharing Scott and many blessings.
@@kevinkline6835 Thanks Kevin. Found mostly in the Eastern US
Awesome!! Keep the videos coming!! Ever want some company.....
I really enjoy your channel, it’s not only interesting but very informative as well..!! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
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loop rope thru the holes and twist it up in the middle then pull on each end of the loops it should start spinning real fast making probably a loud noise for alerting or something...i dont know thats just a guess...
Over here on the West Coast we do not find those flat pieces. We do find rounded shaped stones tapered down at both ends. They are sometimes called charm stones. They're about the same size but without the holes or tally marks. Because this is near a delta area I think they are net weights and large examples of beautiful nets ( as charcoal ) have been found. Also spindle whorls to make the string or twine.
Take a pencil sized stick round the end of the stick rub it on the slate stones and you can call turkeys
Always loved the videos and history lessons.
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been patiently waiting for this one to drop, thanks Clegg.
Could it have been used to hold a drawstring (rope) bag closed for travel w/ knotches marking identity. You slide the gizmo to open the bag ...
The tally's are very interesting on those pieces! What if it was some sort of trade item / some sort of "monetary" system, perhaps a means of signifying debts owed, or trade deals made for certain things. Or Perhaps it was used in some sort of marriage ceremony and it signified how many wives one had? Do we know if they were worn by both women and men? Very interesting video Clegg, much love for posting this! And love the collection.
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G'day Mr Clegg. Just something from left field. Australian Aborigines used to tie a flat piece of wood to a string and swing it around making a vibrating noise they say could be heard or sensed over many miles (See Crocodile Dundee 1 where Hogan actually does it). Dont know how that would work with rock, but how many pieces (perhaps with wood) may have been used? Anyway, the cuts in the stone could have made a different vibration or frequency? And if the string or rope breaks, the rock goes flying and breaks..? Or is it designed to spin? Some rope making device? Cheers. Like your show and the passion.
As I'm new to arrow head. Artifacts hunting... I have a few.
Through my metal detecting. I met a guy here in north central iowa.... sadly he passed away about 2 yrs ago.... he had a private collection that he had showed me he hunted and collected over 65 yrs.... ?
His home and garage was full of artifacts... told me he Found from Mexico to noviaskotia... Canada Alaska... belive me his find belonged in a museum
He had said as he showed these treasures to me... no pictures, no Facebook... didn't want his privacy invaded...
Not sure what has now has become of his collection.....? Grand kids????
He had grinding stones,
bird traps, axes. Arrow heads, pottery, pipes, bones. And fossiles,,, even show me mammoth I r mastodon droppings......
RIP. Levenhagen.......
Awesome video man I never really thought about this before and I didnt know that archaeologists didn't know what these were. Cool stuff man❤
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Great topic. Thanks for sharing.
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Looks like it could have been used on a loom to make blankets and rugs, or to hold line when fixing a fishing net.
Excellent video as usual.
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Good ideas mentioned. Several hours were spent on many of these to manufacture. And the material used like slate, cannel coal, and other similar materials were very thin making them very fragile. Keep that in mind. Also, there are many examples made of soapstone(steatite) which is more durable.Some show wear coming from the drill-holes and angled towards the center of the gorget maybe due to cordage being inserted and tight . Thanks for bringing up and discussing this real cool artifact type!
Good observations!
All solid ideas. I like the game idea because although they definitely had conflicts. I'd guess far more peaceful times and all cultures have need for leisure. But the emphasis on rarity leans more towards status or perhaps gifts between clans/tribe...cool breakdown brother see ya on the river bank
Almost every time you see a broken one it is in close proximity to a drilled hole. Obviously the unit was made weaker at the hole. I have wrestled for years with the question if the gorget was broken during production and tossed or broken by other external forces such as contact with rocks in the ground or in streams.It would be interesting what others think on this subject.
Could the tally marks have something to do with knives or points and sharpening?
I don’t think
@cleggsadventures yea that was just off the top of head I really shouldn't even comment until I do a lot more research into it. Good video though man
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Have you seen Viking Weaving Tablets? They are clever squares made of bone/horn/wood with four holes and to get different weaving patterns they rotate forward/backward. They made belts and straps this way. Perhaps these were two string versions (someone noted they found a three hole version in the comments). Notches could differentiate the ends for keeping to the pattern they wanted more easily and why different notch numbers or chipped ends could still be used. They would get easily broken and lost anytime a tribe was viciously attacked by another as with everything else broken and scattered. The fishnet idea could fit here as well as the Eskimo uses already noted.
Love watching your videos. When I see that, I think of a tool for measurement. A standard unit of measure for the tribe. It would be something that was used and contacted to many objects. In use, being such a brittle material as slate it can be chipped or broken easy. Blank ones would not have been used and likely not be damaged. Just another idea. Thanks!
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I believe it's a practical tool that has something to do with tying system. It could be for fishing line, fishing net or building a strong string for bow where you would twist two strings into one and use another string to wrap around two strings together as you pull along to build a stronger bow string. It would help to know if those tools were found near water or by their ancient ruin sites as clues.
If you find this video that says "Stone age people made hundreds of these...why?", go to 9:25 and you will see how twine rope is made of, using fiber plants and the rope itself is very strong. It depends on how thick you want to make.
Hey!!! I've got a couple of slate gorgets. two or three of them! but they are shaped more like a half moon,, and they have no holes! And I got them from an old woman in Missouri. I noticed them in her antique flea market shop,, and she said,, o!! those old rocks!! we br ought them back from the farm we used to have a dairy farm in Iowa!! and we found those in the fields. I'd be glad to send you a picture of them! tell me what you think? this is Mark a
In Southern Missouri Ozarks.
I have several gorgets. I found a broken slate gorget that is scored when I was very young in Warren Co, OhiO. (go number 1 Buckeyes!!!). I have purchased several others also from OH-IO. One is "fringed."
My guess is it was used for making cordage. The "tally marks" would be for stripping materials to uniform size.
@@paulwylie989 most have no tallies
Sometime read William E Richie' s works/books. The archeology editions. I lived all over new England. Saw a lot. Once my friend found a ceremonial dog burial at the 10,ooo yr level....according to Mr. Richie 's carbon dating of that stratus level. Marthas Vineyard was loaded with rock artifacts. I've seen all types of gorges from that area. You are impressive. Love your work. Wish I could visit you.
Thank you.
Todd P.
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My son goes to school out in Ohio, we will be spending some time up there this spring, would love to go searching with you sometime so I could learn from you. Love your channel.
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I found one, took it to the mississippi archeological association meeting they have monthly. The archeologists there told me it was a broken one, that had been repurposed. It was broken past on of the holes, so the one hole it has, is on the wide end. I had no clue what it was, until I took it to that meeting. It has no score marks, he told me it was made of slate, and that we do not have slate here in Mississippi. I wished I could share some pics on here, definitely the coolest thing I've ever found. I like your theory, and would like to hear what you think of plummets. I definitely don't buy into the fish net weight theory. I don't necessarily buy into the Bola theory, though it makes a little more sense. Also how does a flaked chert adze get polished on the tip. I've found 2 with polished tips, one of them is museum quality.
I have found two plummets. I can't believe the fish net theory either!
Quite interesting, Clegg. I’d ask Rocky, he must know!
We Used to Make Fish Nets with those 😅
Hey clegg love your channel youre a real adventurer and explorer and i think you should take trips around the country and host a creek dig to encourage locals to keep their creeks and rivers clean as well as encourage them to look for and salvage artifacts that would otherwise be bulldozed or altogether ignored and forgotten. Also, i have a theory for the Gor-get. I feel like natives were intimately in tune and harmony with the sky and celestial heavens. What about using the Gore-get as a primitive clock or a compass? Idk just a guess. Like maybe the hole would be the sun and notches the different directions or times of day?? Just a guess. But my thinking is more along the lines of astronomical or compass or clock practical purposes. Lmk what you think of that haha. Thanks for doing what youre doing.
@@jaimevega8237 Much Appreciated.
Agreed basket making, or used as a spoll for fine threads, clothes making
I have anticipated this video. I have only seen one a friend of mine found 45 years ago, it was whole with the exception of one tally mark. And the very tip on the reverse side had a deep score mark but it never made it through the stone. I have only found pieces of them in 50+years and they were all snapped off .there is just know answer to this puzzle, and it itches my brain. I lived in Calhoun County Illinois years ago and the bluff behind my house was a mound when they Excavated the mound there was a Mummified bob cat with several of his dogs and wives and a 14"copper spike ,a solid copper spud. And some Obsidian points.
Absolutely amazing video thank you
Thanks for the awesome story and your interest in this!
I found one on a ridge in North Mississippi. It is small and rectangular. Looks like sandstone? Chickasaw …
Hot damn another video hoooorayyyyy!
Always enjoy my Friend, I like your theory of a "score card" makes good sense, weather it be for battle or hunting. I've notched my deer rifle for the last 40 years. We'll probably never know for sure, but those tally marks stood for something? Great video Sir.👍
@@chriskeenumhighhopesoutdoors Much Appreciated Chris
Top knot adornment????
Scott: Interesting theory. Thanks for putting it out there.
@@dmcarpenter2470 Much Appreciated
I have one from Western Pennsylvania- Broken but 75% there. Been looking at it for a while and the break looks to be ground over even though it broke on one hole. It’s very thick too (expanded center gorget) I think the theory about war or wrestling are the best ones I have heard yet considering the conditions of the notched ones.
I saw you find that. Was an interesting piece for sure
Looks utilitarian to me. Grooves look to match the hole. Like a place for the string or sinue to sit in. Or adjustment positions possibly.
@@danb7713 Not Sure
Those notches could simply be decorative. They did the edges of their pottery with marking that are something like that. We will never know
Thanks for the video.
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I'm with you that these artifacts had some other use than ornamentation and religious ceremonies. Drilling holes is a difficult tedious task and so you'd want a practical reason for making these. Plus making them in softer materials to make fast for their use.
Good stuff brother! Lots of theories! Who knows? 😉
Thanks Sam
I wonder if they could be a form of contract. The notches would indicate payments and when the contract was fulfilled, the gorget would be broken to signify full payment? So many horses, so many pelts, so many of whatever and the debt holder would keep the record and maybe give it to the debtor to break when the debt was discharged . Why make something out of material that can easily be broken if they were not made to be broken? The Native Americans certainly knew how to make durable goods; this seems to be fragile for a reason.
Not sure
Slate is so soft and brittle they couldn't have been used for anything of hard work! But I have thought that maybe they were used as a spoon or like a mixing trowel for mixing flour or seeds and with the notches you could use it for a knife for cutting soft bread😅 or it could have been fastened do your Buckskin like a badge! But used for eating gruel kind of like a butter knife a kitchen or eating utensil or even for softening buckskin jackets or clothing that got wet and used it for smoothing it out getting it soft again
Hey Scott. I'll give you my 2 cents worth. I've racked by brain over the years trying to imagine what a lot of the implements left behind by prehistoric man in the Americas were used for. I've come to the conclusion some of them were used in weaving in one way or another. These gorgets may, and I stress may, have been used to make cordage. Maybe rope, twine, or even bow string. If you look how ropes are made today, or in our recent past, the strings go through a block or piece of wood kind of like a gorget to keep the lines at an even distance then twisted, or spun, to make the cord or rope. They could have also been attached to a loom as part or the process of weaving or making a cord which was spun and then woven to make rugs, mats, or even clothing. Just a theory of mine but some of it certainly falls into place. We may never know for sure. It's kinda like "nutting" stones which are now many thought to be fire starter stones and drill platforms. I try to keep my mind open to new ideas that come along instead of being hardened into one belief or dogmatic about something. Who knows, maybe one day we'll find out for sure.
Interesting idea
After looking at them the limestone one has two and a half holes,no notchs the banded slate piece is a corner of what would have been a really beautiful piece it's purple black banded slate,
I always felt it was for some kind of weaving. Your idea seems very plausible!
i think those was used for the darts or spears...for balance the tally marks are for aiming different distances...feeling possitive about that..
@@bullpuppy689 That’s high tech there
I just always figured they were a tribal identifier attached to clothing, hide, or otherwise. Their size suggest they were able to be seen from a safe distance. I also think birdstones are in fact walking cane tops. The drilling through the bottom front and back suggest they were mounted to a flat topped tee handle cane. I plan on making one soon as i can find a replica.
Interestingly enough, that was a strange location for a propane heater above the fridge, lol.
With no other information and just based on looking at it, I would guess a fishing tool, like for winding line or string. But knowing how easy it is to break slate, I don't think so. I've seen similar looking homemade items in old tackle boxes that were made of wood with string wrapped around them that were used for bank lines.
Honestly, being made of slate, I would also guess those are some sort of jewelry or for ceremonial use. Maybe even a buckle for belts.
Youve got to be correct if so. I even have an friend who was once the Pres. for the Archaeological Society of Ohio, who has never been able to explain this. It really does make sense.
That was to measure out length of line for a leader and it would mark feet on the geoves that would be used to fish
I've no familiarity with slate. Could it be from the stress of making the tally mark? Good to see you back again! (Somehow my notifications got turned off) I thought you'd gotten stuck in the past while making one of your time travel videos!
@@jonericus Much Appreciated
Those are very interesting theories. A record of some accomplishment (sports or battle) combining as a "badge" of honor.... maybe??
I know a couple of things. They were cherished because of the skill and time to make them (like jewelry), and they were worn somehow on the body to show or remind folks of something recorded. Keep up the good work and keep telling us your thoughts on these found remnants of long ago.
@@dropnet Much Appreciated
Maybe they were used to make gill nets? The notches could be how many nets wre made?
@@buddyjames1347 most have no notches
I've yet to find a whole one here in Northwest Mississippi. All the broken pieces I've found were made of mudstone or siltstone. ♥
@@atuuschaaw All broken here too. Someday
I like your thinking. Thoe in in Wyoming. Yes iv seen fragments in my travels in museum. I don't think we have them in the lakoda nation. Blessings
That other video showing a stone with several holes partly drilled into it I think was used to start fires.😊
@@IFIXCASTLES Not Sure
My guess would be weaving of some sorts . I've never found one of those yet. I'll start looking ❤
I have a whole gorget except for a tiny piece on one side corner. The tally marks are visible but are scratch marks not grooved, notched or serrated. When I found it in the creek a design was clearly visible wet. The design doesn't show as well dry but is visible. It's a dark, smooth surface slate about 3.5" x I.5" with 2 holes drilled in it. found it in Sugar Creek near Crawfordsville, Indiana several years ago panning for gold. There's gold in Hoosier creeks. I had to buy a book Indian Artifacts of the Midwest to find out what it was. I found one artifact with grooves & a hole drilled through that wasn't in the book.
Thanks for the detailed description and for sharing your story!
Oh the dreaded gorget! Very hard to find a whole one. I believe they were worn on the person as some kind of ornamental object. I've found several pieces of them myself. Best 1 is approximately half there, broke at the hole, and I think it was a single hole piece, or possibly 2 close together. I found a piece of I believe to be a pendant, and found another piece 18 years later that fits together with the first piece, and STILL don't have it all 😔 I've also found pieces of wing bannerstones and have 2 that fit together! Also have half of one, broken thru the long hole and has a repair hole. All but 1 of these is made from banded slate, none have evidence of notches. The only pc not of banded slate is an absolutely perfect field find of a tan material harder than sandstone, 3"+ L × 2"+ W, convex long sides with smaller flat ends. But it's not drilled. Shucks
Great vid Clegg!👍 I tend to agree with your theorys across the board.
@@georgedouglas9342 Much Appreciated
These are found at archeological sites in Northwest Europe, they’re wrist guards for archery.
I believe they are a weaving tool for making baskets. Look up basket weaving tools alot of similarity. I have no idea what the notches are for . Maybe how many years or experience or measurements so all stitching is the same.
Not sure
@@cleggsadventures Me either. I would like to know. Me and my wife Michelle loves your videos. We artifact hunt here in Florida. If we did what you do here on the banks of the river we would go to jail. We used to scuba dive for them until they changed the law not allowing it. They have know problem with paving over Archaeological sites. Crazy !
Amazing, I love trying to figure out what they did with things. I have a couple odd ball artifacts I can’t find any info on. And then those blunted points that seem to have zero use but they clearly ground them after the point was unusable… why? I think about it often… I feel like the bases had some kind of use. With just a notched base and no actual point it reminds me of some kite string holders I’ve seen, maybe they could wrap thread on them and they ground it down so as not to cut the thread? Idk but they were grinding down unusable points for a reason
On the gorgets… are the notches the same number on each side for all gorgets? If it’s always the same on each side I don’t think it would be a tally mark cause why would you add it to each side? If there’s some with one extra on the opposite side that could imply tally marks. Just a thought, could be wrong.
They are random
arm guard is ridiculous, the end is a catch point for the string to grab, i`d think any archer would see that immediately.
My only question about your theory is that shale is so brittle, that in a rough event or rough usage it would be easily broken and new ones would have to be constantly made...therefore there should be lots of them to replace the broken ones. I believe them to be ceremonial ...to be looked at during special occasions...worn only by the chief or the highest ranking members. The notches represent "tally" marks for sure, but we may never know from one culture and context to the next what it means.
In our times, we wear the yellow stripes for every 3 years of service. I know you know this fact. I like where your mind is going with this. Each battle earns a notch ❤
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I've got two broken ones, one banded slate with one hole,and the other limestone has a hole then broken at the second hole ,I'll have two have another closer look at them
Hey ✌️from Cape Breton,Nova Scotia
Hey there!
Sewn to the clothing ; Found in situ in glovers cave Kentucky Affixed to cape.
Good theory, well thought out. Here's another along those lines.
What if they were a form of score keeping trophy from the ball games they played? They took those very seriously so they would have had a mark of honor for winning?
Just a thought.
I lived in eastern Tenn & I saw them in a small museum of sorts.
He said they were used to hold a skin or blanket together , gathered at the bottom of the throat ..
Some were decorated & some were simply practical ..(according to him)
It didnt make sense to me , but he claimed to be "part native" and he certainly had a huge collection of artifacts ..
That was back in the 80's & I've not heard anything definitive since...
@@pdrphil8159 Nobody alive knows this. These things started to disappear a couple thousand years ago.
The old tent stake slide adjuster is a plank of wood with two holes to slide up and down the line , I believe they were cape adjusters to open and close the top like stings on a hoodie. The notches would have made a weak spot where the break would have started from , most broken ones start in a groove of the notch and go across the piece or go through a hole . The adjuster would have set below the chin having it in the right spot .
But you got pop eye bird stones and all amounts of things we don’t even recognize properly they just made what they needed and the human mind has no limits really.
A close friend of mine who had never arrow head hunted before came over one day and said let's go to that arrowhead spot in the creek you were telling me about. I declined, but told him where it was. Two or three hours later he came back with a four inch butterbean shaped Gorget two holes polished no chips. he said I walked up onto the bridge (culvert) and looked in the water and there it was about six inches below the surface right on top of the mud. It was NOT slate but a off cream yellow color hard indigenous chert (?) of central Mississippi. I never went back to that creek.
Wow! Beginners luck
I was thinking the same thing that maybe it was each time they counted coup.
Brother, that's a cool sounding theory !!!😎✌️
Never found any gorget parts, myself.... Maybe someday, and I will check for the tallie marks !!!!⛏️⛏️⛏️⛏️⛏️🍀🍀🍀🍀✌️😎
@@historylooker7 You’re due 👍
@cleggsadventures
Hope so 😃👊
I have read that they were weights on an atlatl that helped increase the speed of the dart. I tend to think the marks were for animals killed but who knows?