"if I keep piling crap upon crap, upon crap, it doesn't suddenly turn into a diamond - it's just a big pile of crap" - Coach Sommer 2014 hahaha great quote - totally agree
a sweet line about olympic athletes "they literally have no idea how incredible those athletes are.... genetically they are faster, they are more powerful, their reflexes are better than any of us could ever hope to be"
Best interview I've seen from Coach, I was blown away the entire interview like always... His manual, foundations series, HS series and Rings series are all extremely useful for anyone wanted to take their training to a new level.. If you know Coach or have trained with him you would understand his sense of humor. He's not cocky, or belittling anyone...He is the most humble, kind hearted Coach I've had the pleasure of having over the years....He's simply stating the truth! He has worked with national level athletes and has create these programs based on the trials and errors over the 10+ years of being a coach at this level. You should be thanking him! I've been following his program for over a year and the strength gains that I've made have proved to me the benefits of going to back to the basics and starting with foundational elements and building myself back up as a better athlete. The strength component coupled with the mobility element is KEY!
This guy was awesome! One of the best interviews I've seen! It seemed like he was harsh but he was making some amazing points. So much information packed into 43 minutes! Thanks for interviewing this guy you are all awesome
Well it depends if you train very easy for a couple of weeks you can have a training session or 2 where you break your limits, then back to the steady building of potential ... after that you can break the limit again. Most people never take the time to accumulate something, they just wanna break the limit ... that's dumb :)
I was referring to geared bodybuilding, hence the term "no pain no gain". However, this term does not always work well for natural bodybuilders as you quickly burn out. Periodization, as you mention, is a great way to attack this subject.
Agreed :) A lot of things are misunderstood the language is too poor to be able to express all the different things people can experience. Have a good one.
+Michael Worthy Well. It depends on the type of pain, the reason for it, and the frequency with which is occurs. That statement is too simplistic to be completely accurate.
Cant comment for Coach but Ive been training Gymnastics Bodies Foundation One for a year now and a while before i did convict conditioning. They are a billion miles apart. CC is amateur hour in comparison. GB is a slow process but personally it's helping correct issues that I've picked up from other training methods such as CC. I wish i'd started GB years ago because now i'd be so much further ahead.
@@MrWhite2277 I've always wondered about this. I'm glad I stumbled upon your comment! Been following CC for a few years and have started GB less than a week ago. I can clearly see the difference in the two, and am confident I'm on the right track.
I completely understand his cocky and condescendenting attitude. Imagine the thing you have been working related to all your life becomes a mainstream fitness fad, where all the basics get ripped out by some wannabe L1 Cert. Coaches that do nothing promote your sport in a very risky and unhealthy way.
Thank you for interviewing this guy. I'm glad I sub'd to this channel, this was some awesome information. That coach knows what the fuck he's talking about.
I'd like to get Doug's thoughts on this episode. Seems like he wanted to ask a lot more of the Crossfit relevant questions. Also very glad Chris didn't pull punches.
Great episode! Really informative! CrossFit is really strength bias, both gymnastics and endurance is no where close to the strength of the high level athletes.
i think chris sommer is pretty right in what he is saying. a great piece of advice. thanks for putting it out there!! however, i don't like his slightly arrogant, prejudiced attitude. he might be right to be kind of frustrated about crossfit's take on gymnastics, but as a coach he should also know that people never stop learning.
I think he just realized that CrossFit as a program didn't really care about teaching correct gymnastics which is his passion so he gave up on the collective them. Imagine if you gave your life to something and some new kid on the block came in and basterdized everything you've been working for despite you trying to educate them. I think I'd be fed up with it too. I see it in other sports as well (such as competitive shooting) and we just shake our heads in disgust at what's being taught, preached and done out there. Sometimes I just want to slap somebody but most of the time throw out a sigh.
EmanP223 I feel the same way about Mixed martial arts;MMA comes around throws out hundreds years of well tested and well designed skills then says "Oh it does not work ",well yeah it work if you don't practice hard and listen to the teachers.Coach summers criticism about muscle up,butterfly kip/or just kip are true. Since been doing Gymnastics as a mature student ( i started at 29) for nearing five months now there is a reason and a very well though out path/methodology to the subject. The idea of cross training is not a bad idea or a good idea it is a great idea,all experts from all fields like yoga and Olympic lifting should be pulling there source together to improve cross-fit.Instead just bash it.
I wonder what he(coach Sommer) thinks about circus acrobats and contortionists, they floor gymnasts all day everyday in terms of skill and mobility, try doing triple back tucks with a twist on top of two people standing on a tight rope with the width of a needle.
No sabia que no entendias el idioma. Lo que preguntas son ejercicios de movilidad, Una cosa es la flexibilidad, otra la movilidad. La flexibilidad te permite estirarte hasta cierto punto y la movilidad te permite pasar de ese punto a otro teniendo una buena transicion.
Dude!!... I understand the language just fine. However, I wasn't quite sure about the exercise... which is why I asked my question in the first place. If you really want to help... just give an example of what a "mobility exercise" is without being a jerk about it. If you don't want to help... Get lost!! Gracias. ;)
Pretty much some form of passive stretching paired with a strength exercise. For example, a pull up would be the strength exercise while a lat stretch (holding onto a pole and stretching your lat) for time would be the mobility exercise.
This guy definitely had a chip on his shoulder when it came to crossfit; all that aside he had some great information on bodyweight work and human kinetics. Their site is pretty awesome too.
Where did he say they worked side by side? Sounded to me like their relationship is and has always been somewhat antagonistic. Also, Sommers is doing his part to diseminate this previously unavailable knowledge to the masses that may benefit from it, but he still maintains a bit of an elitist tone. That will turn a lot of people off before the message has a chance to be heard unfortunately
mmwosu Why don't minions know the history of their own cult? GG has done some ZANY stuff under the banner of gymnastics. Coach Sommers coaches gymnastic strength training using strength and mobility progressions. Guess what CF avoids like the plague -- PROGRAMMING and PROGRESSIONS. Coach Sommers gets it right: After 10 years all CF has to show for GST is bad muscle-ups. Dusty Hyland at CrossFit Dogtown understands GST. He's not the CF norm.
STHENICS Ok, great. Doesn't change the fact that he talks like an elitist and will turn off just as many people as he reaches. Reading some of the other comments left here should have clued you in to that fact. Way to miss the forest for the trees.
This is great information, I just have to point out- Gymnastics has one of the absolute worst records for athletes getting injured. Also, when is the last time the U.S. had an Oly. athlete in gymnastics that was over the age of 20? Bottom line its focused towards teenage athletes, and most come out with chronic injuries.
Your talking about the elite of the elite coming up with injuries, doing high level stuff most people who don't train for high level gymnastics for 10+ yrs will never do.
matt proulx But isn't that exactly what he is stating? That us lowly crossfitters are not accomplishing anything in the realm of gymnastics because we aren't training right and we force injuries on adults who aren't ready? He is a specialized coach so obviously sees the benefit in becoming an expert- i would just argue that games athletes don't seem to get injured, and they are also killing everything else. I like a broad approach personally.
Good in theory, but where is the cutoff for injury? Crossfit, by definition, should be something you can do forever without wearing out parts. A theory could be that the reason they don't do more gymnastics is because if you do it long term you will end up with less capacity for work. Compare that to oly lifting where most elite have done it for decades without debilitating injuries. I think this guy is missing the point that most Crossfiters don't really aspire to an iron cross. If I could do muscle ups and nothing else, I am happy. It is like saying that if you can't run a 4 minute mile you suck at Crossfit and should get into a running program immediately.
Alex Roan No that's not what he is saying, obviously He does not expect crossfitters to be doing high level gymnastics, ain't ever gonna happen. Nor is he trying to sell the idea that everyone will and should achieve that goal. What his programs do is train for injury free training in a progressive manner. Something crossfit can and should implement. I don't like the crossfit mentality that 100 crappy pullups are better than 10 good full dead hang nipples to bar pullups. There seems to be little structure, its more like a race and rep run than a skills competition. In fact I see very little skill, if any at all to be bluntly honest.
Very knowledgeable guy, he may have missed one point with CrossFit, I don’t think they are aiming to have an ‘iron cross’ , it’s a sport / spectacle and I don’t think that progression is one of their aims.
Great information to be sure. One of the things that CrossFit has done is to open the general population up to many movements they (myself included) would only spectate and not actually do. Now, I'm working on these various items (Gymnastics, Oly, etc). CrossFit has given Coach Sommer a chance to teach so many newbies, 1000x more than if he did this on his own. He can be condescending, but he should actually thank CrossFit for the chance to set things right. He certainly has a bone to pick with Glassman, but he shouldn't let that get in the way of working to teach people. Frankly, Carl Paoli is teaching the same stuff, except he's not condescending and actually cares about getting people to progress and move. Be part of the solution and embrace the huge number of CrossFitters out there who want to learn gymnastics.....or stay in your bubble of "I'm right and make sure that the world knows it". Your choice.
Carl Paoli is definitely not teaching the same things. Sure some of the end goals are similar but there methods are not even comparable. Plus there was an argument between david durante and carl a little while ago where carl actually advocated kipping pull-ups.
Daniel Burnham carl paoli says after first gaining the strength to do strict pull-ups then they should implement kipping pull-ups , which is what summer says swell strict pull-ups must be built first. they all agree on the same things...
Daniel Burnham Here's the discussion you're referring too. journal.crossfit.com/2013/11/offline-episode-3-strict-pull-ups-before-kipping-pull-ups.tpl Worth a listen for the information and debate. What Coach Sommer is saying isn't new, but there's an "Elitism" in his points. I do strict pull-ups, since it's the only way to get strong enough for the shoulder to handle the load of kipping. This is no different than Oly lifters who said CrossFitters don't do Oly right, or runners saying "CF doesn't teach correct running technique." The issue is can Coach Sommer bring himself down to the every person's level to teach them where they're at? Paoli and Starrett are bringing mobility and gymnastics and progressions to the "everyman". Just like Olympic lifter Chad Vaughn and Kendrick Ferris on the Oly side. Sommer needs to step back or like Glassman, open the doors for people who who can articulate to people who want to learn and will pay big $$ to do so. If Sommer wants to sprew then let him, but he can't complain that other's will teach proper movement in the context of CrossFit.
Jonathan Cragle Why do you say he can't bring himself down to a level that everyone can do? There is a whole series he released that addresses that concern. The foundation series is about correcting people and building more strength. No I certainly respect olympic lifting it is incredible demanding and requires constant patience and practice of the movements. However there are only a handful of basic movements in olympic lifting. Also by nature of the movement not chaining a lot the progressions are simpler. In gymnastics there are literally hundreds of different complicated movements which is why I think these skills haven't been picked up correctly. There is a huge learning curve. The work that carl is doing is 'ok' but doesn't compare to the stuff sommer has just released. I'm actually also a fan of Durante but he also doesn't have years of teaching both kids and adults under his belt to understand the difference in teaching someone like himself and a person who is highly deficient in mobility. The thing is that Sommer has very high standards and some people think that this means he can't reach everyone, but his standards are high for a reason. Neglecting the things he mentions will lead to stalls and even injury. I can assure you he isn't even asking us do what he would make his kids do. But then again they are performing at a much higher level than us.
I love this. He definitely ripped Crossfit a new one. I especially enjoyed the fact he showed that just because you can do an endless series of "Kipping Pullups" does not mean you can do a single actual pull up. Pathetic Crossfitters
Find me a single person who can do endless kips and not a single strict. I'll be waiting. Also, what are you doing on a Crossfit dominant podcast? Did you wait for this episode just to talk shit about it?
Unfortunately he is trying to oversell on his web site.. His book "building the gymnastic body" has horrible reviews in Amazon, so I would never dare to spend 80$ on some 'foundation one' book. Too bad.
This guy definitely knows his business, but it was a tough interview for me to listen to, as his condescending & cocky attitude was awful. CrossFit does have a lot to learn about gymnastics, but this guy is a huge turn off. Great interview subject guys, just wish you had a better guest.
I agree. I get it; Gymnastics is a high-level, elite discipline of fitness. No one in their right mind would ever debate that. But the general mass doesn't have the access to that like they do for CrossFit. Great interview, but I sensed a lot of contempt when he compared Olympic-level gymnastics to a strength and conditioning program built for the masses.
I completely understand his cocky and condescendenting attitude. Imagine the thing you have been working related to all your life becomes a mainstream fitness fad, where all the basics get ripped out by some wannabe L1 Cert. Coaches that do nothing promote your sport in a very risky and unhealthy way.
Read some comments here. I dont see how Coach is 'condescending'. Blunt and black-and-white, yes. Is he presenting any faulty info? Not that i can tell. You buy his info for the quality, not his personality. Glassman himself has his personal problems with other high level coaches, few point that out though. Coach Sommer admitted several mistakes, i dont see that as condescending. Its honest. Crossit will grow until a class-action lawsuit happens. Their programming just damages connective tissue, its fact. Doctors are already stating a rash of Crossfit injuries. Crossfit: right idea, wrong implementation.
***** Well, i assume Crossfit thinks of their 'virtuosity' as a fancy term for GPP(General Physical Preperation). There is much literature on GPP, little on 'virtuosity'...
Perhaps its because in BTGB (which is what I assume youre writing about) has a lot of references to other books. Later volumes that he intended to write...but to my knowledge never did. I don't assume it was to rip people off...he seems to have put together the online gymnastics bodies platform instead. Something that seems more user friendly. Or mayber it is because people seem to want a magazine type program in which they don't have to do a lot of leg work. BTGB can seem like a boring read but if you are truly into it, and you want to implement it, I have found that it is a good book. You can create your own program and as long as you follow all of his guidance throughout the book, can see tremendous results. It takes a good understanding and discipline to follow but if you couple it with a good stretching routine it can be good until you gather enough money to purchase and follow his online platform. This has been my approach..and while it isn't the best it does it for me for now. Hope this helps.
i think it was all from this one workout Complete as many rounds and reps as possible in 15 minutes of: 155 pound Deadlift, 9 reps 12 Push-ups 15 Box jumps, 24" box
Yeah but still, 9 people got hurt. 14.991 did not. Epidemic? This guy is right when he talks about progression and strength before momentum but also wrong because banded kipping pull-ups with moderate momentum is usefull. Different rom, different feel, more varied, helps agility. Always SO black and white...
Does anyone else think it's unethical that to get what Coach Sommer thinks is world class gymnastics instruction, you need enough disposable income to buy the products on his website? I know he needs a way to have an income, but his model prevents low wealth people from accessing it.
ceili two points, 1. It isn't really world class gymnastics instruction in one very important way, i.e. you aren't going to be there in real life with a coach who can help you. 2. Why shouldn't the whole world have access to the best information? If there is a better plan, why should *anyone* have to make do with the worse plan, given that the transmission of information is now free and easy?
ceili I have nothing against him getting a good profit for putting the program together, but if you do the math on his programs, t's *a lot*. If 1000 people buy his combo pack, he'll have made almost 500,000 bucks. Is THAT a reasonable price for some exercise instruction>!? Really, some of the workouts he sells are 500 bucks. like, what the hell? No poor or young person can afford that.
"if I keep piling crap upon crap, upon crap, it doesn't suddenly turn into a diamond - it's just a big pile of crap" - Coach Sommer 2014 hahaha great quote - totally agree
true mate
But if you subject it to enormous pressure for millions of years, it just may
his book is a great manual
a sweet line about olympic athletes "they literally have no idea how incredible those athletes are.... genetically they are faster, they are more powerful, their reflexes are better than any of us could ever hope to be"
"Kipping Pull-ups are criminal."
Makes total sense. Thanks that someone said this out loud.
Maybe others have said it, but I've not heard it before.
Best interview I've seen from Coach, I was blown away the entire interview like always... His manual, foundations series, HS series and Rings series are all extremely useful for anyone wanted to take their training to a new level.. If you know Coach or have trained with him you would understand his sense of humor. He's not cocky, or belittling anyone...He is the most humble, kind hearted Coach I've had the pleasure of having over the years....He's simply stating the truth! He has worked with national level athletes and has create these programs based on the trials and errors over the 10+ years of being a coach at this level. You should be thanking him!
I've been following his program for over a year and the strength gains that I've made have proved to me the benefits of going to back to the basics and starting with foundational elements and building myself back up as a better athlete. The strength component coupled with the mobility element is KEY!
Are those in print or only online?
I like this guy - he says it like he sees it and doesn't hold back. Highly informative and at times hilarious.
This guy is a boss. So much knowledge.
Yes!!! Coach Sommer to set it straight!!! I love it!
smart, smart man
highly recommend the Gymnastic Bodies starter pack to all interested. comprehensive in scope
"ten years of skipping the money maker" This guy is cracking me up. I am loving it. Very informative.
One of the best interviews you guys have done so far!
This guy was awesome! One of the best interviews I've seen! It seemed like he was harsh but he was making some amazing points. So much information packed into 43 minutes! Thanks for interviewing this guy you are all awesome
"You should never TRAIN through PAIN. Its not manly its stupid"
Unless you want an extreme pump
Well it depends if you train very easy for a couple of weeks you can have a training session or 2 where you break your limits, then back to the steady building of potential ... after that you can break the limit again. Most people never take the time to accumulate something, they just wanna break the limit ... that's dumb :)
I was referring to geared bodybuilding, hence the term "no pain no gain". However, this term does not always work well for natural bodybuilders as you quickly burn out. Periodization, as you mention, is a great way to attack this subject.
Agreed :) A lot of things are misunderstood the language is too poor to be able to express all the different things people can experience. Have a good one.
+Michael Worthy Well. It depends on the type of pain, the reason for it, and the frequency with which is occurs. That statement is too simplistic to be completely accurate.
this guy is legit. it's nice to hear some actual CONSTRUCTIVE criticism of crossfit - and from someone who actually knows their shit.
My espresso machine kicked off right when the “brew some coffee” screen came up. Love Coach’s stuff been following for a few years now.
this guy is a boss
Amazing! You guys produce incredible casts with professional speakers and useful information. I look forward to each cast!
This is by far the best video I have seen on your series! The depth of his knowledge is incredible.
Great interview! Interesting and informative the whole way through :) Thanks
So good. It would be fantastic to pick Coaches brain for a day
Great Talk, maybe the best ever on Barbell Shrugged.
One of the best yet! Great show guys.
Awesome episode! Keep it coming guys. Thanks
Great interview thanks!
Brutally, necessarily honest interview, thanks Coach Sommer
Wow, coach Sommer is a really cool and wise guy, this shit is awesome. Thanks a LOT Barbell Shrugged. Cheers from Slovakia!
great interview. what a wealth of information
great talk! thanks tons!
impressive and nice workout,...hope to attend once in your seminar....
This video rocks. Thanks CTP and the crew!
great interview!
awesome podcast!
Yes please!!
gr8 info..:)
Wow! I just started watching and this is VERY informative! Info from someone who KNOWS HIS SHIT!!! How GREAT is that?!
***** Personally, this is a douchey comment with bad punctuation.
B74 Thank you! I really meant my comment as quite a compliment! It was wonderful to hear his professional comments and criticisms in the video!
***** No problem, I get it. I can relate to the feeling of coming across someone that creates new perspective.
I'm now scared I'm going to hurt my connective tissue. I guess I should check out this guy's website
I've got his book, i use it to look over my training.
These guys should shut up and listen. They can learn from listening. not talking. Sommers is the man.
You can't be more right, sir.
Why is Coach Sommer on fleek?
i like this guy
I wonder what coach Sommer thinks of Convict Conditioning. And more specifically the progressions found in the CC program.
Cant comment for Coach but Ive been training Gymnastics Bodies Foundation One for a year now and a while before i did convict conditioning. They are a billion miles apart. CC is amateur hour in comparison. GB is a slow process but personally it's helping correct issues that I've picked up from other training methods such as CC. I wish i'd started GB years ago because now i'd be so much further ahead.
@@MrWhite2277 I've always wondered about this. I'm glad I stumbled upon your comment! Been following CC for a few years and have started GB less than a week ago. I can clearly see the difference in the two, and am confident I'm on the right track.
I completely understand his cocky and condescendenting attitude.
Imagine the thing you have been working related to all your life becomes a mainstream fitness fad, where all the basics get ripped out by some wannabe L1 Cert. Coaches that do nothing promote your sport in a very risky and unhealthy way.
Thank you for interviewing this guy. I'm glad I sub'd to this channel, this was some awesome information. That coach knows what the fuck he's talking about.
I'd like to get Doug's thoughts on this episode. Seems like he wanted to ask a lot more of the Crossfit relevant questions. Also very glad Chris didn't pull punches.
dude sounds like he likes crossfit..
You know what CrossFit and Gymnastics lack equally?
FREESTYLE FLOW
actually Tai Chi Chuan would do !!
Great episode! Really informative! CrossFit is really strength bias, both gymnastics and endurance is no where close to the strength of the high level athletes.
i think chris sommer is pretty right in what he is saying. a great piece of advice. thanks for putting it out there!! however, i don't like his slightly arrogant, prejudiced attitude. he might be right to be kind of frustrated about crossfit's take on gymnastics, but as a coach he should also know that people never stop learning.
I think he just realized that CrossFit as a program didn't really care about teaching correct gymnastics which is his passion so he gave up on the collective them. Imagine if you gave your life to something and some new kid on the block came in and basterdized everything you've been working for despite you trying to educate them. I think I'd be fed up with it too. I see it in other sports as well (such as competitive shooting) and we just shake our heads in disgust at what's being taught, preached and done out there. Sometimes I just want to slap somebody but most of the time throw out a sigh.
EmanP223 I feel the same way about Mixed martial arts;MMA comes around throws out hundreds years of well tested and well designed skills then says "Oh it does not work ",well yeah it work if you don't practice hard and listen to the teachers.Coach summers criticism about muscle up,butterfly kip/or just kip are true.
Since been doing Gymnastics as a mature student ( i started at 29) for nearing five months now there is a reason and a very well though out path/methodology to the subject.
The idea of cross training is not a bad idea or a good idea it is a great idea,all experts from all fields like yoga and Olympic lifting should be pulling there source together to improve cross-fit.Instead just bash it.
that bearded man has a pleasing baritone
Geez, what a strict dude.
17:27 Shots being fired..
fortalecer tejido conectivo
Everytime i hear coach sommer talk i just get the feeling that this guy is a legit source of creating demigods
Call a back uprise a muscle up boom another muscle up 🤪
strength first endurance later
18:50 1 fuerza básica.
I wonder what he(coach Sommer) thinks about circus acrobats and contortionists, they floor gymnasts all day everyday in terms of skill and mobility, try doing triple back tucks with a twist on top of two people standing on a tight rope with the width of a needle.
What is a "mobility exercise"...
Can someone give an example??
You are kidding right
Cesar Candanoza ???
Yo no estaba bromeando.
¿Eso responde a tu estúpida pregunta?
No sabia que no entendias el idioma. Lo que preguntas son ejercicios de movilidad, Una cosa es la flexibilidad, otra la movilidad. La flexibilidad te permite estirarte hasta cierto punto y la movilidad te permite pasar de ese punto a otro teniendo una buena transicion.
Dude!!...
I understand the language just fine.
However, I wasn't quite sure about the exercise...
which is why I asked my question in the first place.
If you really want to help...
just give an example of what a "mobility exercise" is
without being a jerk about it.
If you don't want to help... Get lost!!
Gracias. ;)
Pretty much some form of passive stretching paired with a strength exercise. For example, a pull up would be the strength exercise while a lat stretch (holding onto a pole and stretching your lat) for time would be the mobility exercise.
Did I see aja barto?
Yes, looks like it.
This is a pragmatic man.
This guy definitely had a chip on his shoulder when it came to crossfit; all that aside he had some great information on bodyweight work and human kinetics. Their site is pretty awesome too.
A chip gained by spending a few years working side by side with Greg Glassman, the founder and head of Crossfit.
Where did he say they worked side by side? Sounded to me like their relationship is and has always been somewhat antagonistic. Also, Sommers is doing his part to diseminate this previously unavailable knowledge to the masses that may benefit from it, but he still maintains a bit of an elitist tone. That will turn a lot of people off before the message has a chance to be heard unfortunately
It isn't a "chip", he knows his stuff and can see through the bullshit scam that is Crossfit so it pisses him off.
mmwosu Why don't minions know the history of their own cult? GG has done some ZANY stuff under the banner of gymnastics.
Coach Sommers coaches gymnastic strength training using strength and mobility progressions. Guess what CF avoids like the plague -- PROGRAMMING and PROGRESSIONS.
Coach Sommers gets it right: After 10 years all CF has to show for GST is bad muscle-ups. Dusty Hyland at CrossFit Dogtown understands GST. He's not the CF norm.
STHENICS Ok, great. Doesn't change the fact that he talks like an elitist and will turn off just as many people as he reaches. Reading some of the other comments left here should have clued you in to that fact. Way to miss the forest for the trees.
This is great information, I just have to point out- Gymnastics has one of the absolute worst records for athletes getting injured. Also, when is the last time the U.S. had an Oly. athlete in gymnastics that was over the age of 20? Bottom line its focused towards teenage athletes, and most come out with chronic injuries.
Your talking about the elite of the elite coming up with injuries, doing high level stuff most people who don't train for high level gymnastics for 10+ yrs will never do.
matt proulx But isn't that exactly what he is stating? That us lowly crossfitters are not accomplishing anything in the realm of gymnastics because we aren't training right and we force injuries on adults who aren't ready? He is a specialized coach so obviously sees the benefit in becoming an expert- i would just argue that games athletes don't seem to get injured, and they are also killing everything else. I like a broad approach personally.
***** I guess your right about the age!
Good in theory, but where is the cutoff for injury? Crossfit, by definition, should be something you can do forever without wearing out parts. A theory could be that the reason they don't do more gymnastics is because if you do it long term you will end up with less capacity for work. Compare that to oly lifting where most elite have done it for decades without debilitating injuries. I think this guy is missing the point that most Crossfiters don't really aspire to an iron cross. If I could do muscle ups and nothing else, I am happy. It is like saying that if you can't run a 4 minute mile you suck at Crossfit and should get into a running program immediately.
Alex Roan No that's not what he is saying, obviously He does not expect crossfitters to be doing high level gymnastics, ain't ever gonna happen. Nor is he trying to sell the idea that everyone will and should achieve that goal. What his programs do is train for injury free training in a progressive manner. Something crossfit can and should implement. I don't like the crossfit mentality that 100 crappy pullups are better than 10 good full dead hang nipples to bar pullups. There seems to be little structure, its more like a race and rep run than a skills competition. In fact I see very little skill, if any at all to be bluntly honest.
That microphone is ridiculous for something being videotaped. It covers 40% of your guests face. Use a lav or a boom mic.
It's for a podcast..
its a youtube video as well.
are they standing the whole time? boom mics and some stools at least
Standing is healthy..
Very knowledgeable guy, he may have missed one point with CrossFit, I don’t think they are aiming to have an ‘iron cross’ , it’s a sport / spectacle and I don’t think that progression is one of their aims.
I like the part where he crucifies Cross-shit...
Great information to be sure. One of the things that CrossFit has done is to open the general population up to many movements they (myself included) would only spectate and not actually do. Now, I'm working on these various items (Gymnastics, Oly, etc). CrossFit has given Coach Sommer a chance to teach so many newbies, 1000x more than if he did this on his own. He can be condescending, but he should actually thank CrossFit for the chance to set things right. He certainly has a bone to pick with Glassman, but he shouldn't let that get in the way of working to teach people. Frankly, Carl Paoli is teaching the same stuff, except he's not condescending and actually cares about getting people to progress and move. Be part of the solution and embrace the huge number of CrossFitters out there who want to learn gymnastics.....or stay in your bubble of "I'm right and make sure that the world knows it". Your choice.
Carl Paoli is definitely not teaching the same things. Sure some of the end goals are similar but there methods are not even comparable. Plus there was an argument between david durante and carl a little while ago where carl actually advocated kipping pull-ups.
Daniel Burnham carl paoli says after first gaining the strength to do strict pull-ups then they should implement kipping pull-ups , which is what summer says swell strict pull-ups must be built first. they all agree on the same things...
Daniel Burnham Here's the discussion you're referring too. journal.crossfit.com/2013/11/offline-episode-3-strict-pull-ups-before-kipping-pull-ups.tpl Worth a listen for the information and debate. What Coach Sommer is saying isn't new, but there's an "Elitism" in his points. I do strict pull-ups, since it's the only way to get strong enough for the shoulder to handle the load of kipping. This is no different than Oly lifters who said CrossFitters don't do Oly right, or runners saying "CF doesn't teach correct running technique." The issue is can Coach Sommer bring himself down to the every person's level to teach them where they're at? Paoli and Starrett are bringing mobility and gymnastics and progressions to the "everyman". Just like Olympic lifter Chad Vaughn and Kendrick Ferris on the Oly side. Sommer needs to step back or like Glassman, open the doors for people who who can articulate to people who want to learn and will pay big $$ to do so. If Sommer wants to sprew then let him, but he can't complain that other's will teach proper movement in the context of CrossFit.
Jonathan Cragle Why do you say he can't bring himself down to a level that everyone can do? There is a whole series he released that addresses that concern. The foundation series is about correcting people and building more strength.
No I certainly respect olympic lifting it is incredible demanding and requires constant patience and practice of the movements. However there are only a handful of basic movements in olympic lifting. Also by nature of the movement not chaining a lot the progressions are simpler.
In gymnastics there are literally hundreds of different complicated movements which is why I think these skills haven't been picked up correctly. There is a huge learning curve. The work that carl is doing is 'ok' but doesn't compare to the stuff sommer has just released. I'm actually also a fan of Durante but he also doesn't have years of teaching both kids and adults under his belt to understand the difference in teaching someone like himself and a person who is highly deficient in mobility.
The thing is that Sommer has very high standards and some people think that this means he can't reach everyone, but his standards are high for a reason. Neglecting the things he mentions will lead to stalls and even injury. I can assure you he isn't even asking us do what he would make his kids do. But then again they are performing at a much higher level than us.
Theres something about chris sommers
LIBRo Gymnastic bodys
He deserves to be smug.
I love this. He definitely ripped Crossfit a new one. I especially enjoyed the fact he showed that just because you can do an endless series of "Kipping Pullups" does not mean you can do a single actual pull up. Pathetic Crossfitters
Find me a single person who can do endless kips and not a single strict. I'll be waiting. Also, what are you doing on a Crossfit dominant podcast? Did you wait for this episode just to talk shit about it?
So, this guy really digs CrossFit?
Crossfit is gay... have a nice day!
He rips crossfire for the bs form!! Like he should!!
Austin Dukes J Ngvgg v
Unfortunately he is trying to oversell on his web site.. His book "building the gymnastic body" has horrible reviews in Amazon, so I would never dare to spend 80$ on some 'foundation one' book. Too bad.
I actually found Building the Gymnastic Body to be incredibly useful in my bodyweight training.
lol because amazon reviews mean something
This guy definitely knows his business, but it was a tough interview for me to listen to, as his condescending & cocky attitude was awful. CrossFit does have a lot to learn about gymnastics, but this guy is a huge turn off. Great interview subject guys, just wish you had a better guest.
I agree. I get it; Gymnastics is a high-level, elite discipline of fitness. No one in their right mind would ever debate that. But the general mass doesn't have the access to that like they do for CrossFit. Great interview, but I sensed a lot of contempt when he compared Olympic-level gymnastics to a strength and conditioning program built for the masses.
I completely understand his cocky and condescendenting attitude.
Imagine the thing you have been working related to all your life becomes a mainstream fitness fad, where all the basics get ripped out by some wannabe L1 Cert. Coaches that do nothing promote your sport in a very risky and unhealthy way.
Pablo Cid Well said Pablo, it's necessary to be firm to shut some CF coaches who's teaching hazardous, risky stuff
Read some comments here. I dont see how Coach is 'condescending'. Blunt and black-and-white, yes. Is he presenting any faulty info? Not that i can tell. You buy his info for the quality, not his personality. Glassman himself has his personal problems with other high level coaches, few point that out though. Coach Sommer admitted several mistakes, i dont see that as condescending. Its honest. Crossit will grow until a class-action lawsuit happens. Their programming just damages connective tissue, its fact. Doctors are already stating a rash of Crossfit injuries. Crossfit: right idea, wrong implementation.
***** Well, i assume Crossfit thinks of their 'virtuosity' as a fancy term for GPP(General Physical Preperation). There is much literature on GPP, little on 'virtuosity'...
Why does his book have such horrible reviews? :( has put me off buying it.
Perhaps its because in BTGB (which is what I assume youre writing about) has a lot of references to other books. Later volumes that he intended to write...but to my knowledge never did. I don't assume it was to rip people off...he seems to have put together the online gymnastics bodies platform instead. Something that seems more user friendly. Or mayber it is because people seem to want a magazine type program in which they don't have to do a lot of leg work. BTGB can seem like a boring read but if you are truly into it, and you want to implement it, I have found that it is a good book. You can create your own program and as long as you follow all of his guidance throughout the book, can see tremendous results. It takes a good understanding and discipline to follow but if you couple it with a good stretching routine it can be good until you gather enough money to purchase and follow his online platform. This has been my approach..and while it isn't the best it does it for me for now. Hope this helps.
Super weird mics and mic positioning, can't even see people's faces really.
Yea n why are they standing haha
So many truths But SO black and white... 9 achilles ruptures in 150.000 at the opens is an epidemic?
i think it was all from this one workout
Complete as many rounds and reps as possible in 15 minutes of:
155 pound Deadlift, 9 reps
12 Push-ups
15 Box jumps, 24" box
Yeah but still, 9 people got hurt. 14.991 did not. Epidemic?
This guy is right when he talks about progression and strength before momentum but also wrong because banded kipping pull-ups with moderate momentum is usefull. Different rom, different feel, more varied, helps agility.
Always SO black and white...
Patrik Van Pee Yeah what would he know, he only coached actual athletes not Crossfit rejects that cant do a single pull up.
I don't really know what you mean here. Is this sarcasm?
What are CF rejects? never known CF to reject anyone...
Does anyone else think it's unethical that to get what Coach Sommer thinks is world class gymnastics instruction, you need enough disposable income to buy the products on his website?
I know he needs a way to have an income, but his model prevents low wealth people from accessing it.
ceili two points, 1. It isn't really world class gymnastics instruction in one very important way, i.e. you aren't going to be there in real life with a coach who can help you.
2. Why shouldn't the whole world have access to the best information? If there is a better plan, why should *anyone* have to make do with the worse plan, given that the transmission of information is now free and easy?
ceili I have nothing against him getting a good profit for putting the program together, but if you do the math on his programs, t's *a lot*.
If 1000 people buy his combo pack, he'll have made almost 500,000 bucks. Is THAT a reasonable price for some exercise instruction>!?
Really, some of the workouts he sells are 500 bucks. like, what the hell? No poor or young person can afford that.
ceili I never said he had an obligation, or that he shouldn't have the right. I said it was unethical for him to charge exorbitantly.
ceili You seem to have data I'm looking for, where can I get them for free?
ceili You had time to say you have the answers, and to tell me you wouldn't give me them. But no time to help a brother out?