Are Service Conditions Corrupting Good People in the IAS? | Karan Thapar
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2024
- Karan Thapar is in conversation with former IAS Officer N.C. Saxena on his new book, 'What Ails The IAS and Why It Fails To Deliver'. Thapar and Saxena talk about the conditions of the Service, the reason why corruption seeps in administrations, certain anecdotes of Saxena's tenure in the Service and more.
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![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #1 НАЧАЛО ПУТЕШЕСТВИЯ [Новый сезон] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/380Q7gLWGvk/mqdefault.jpg)
Mr. Thapar PLEASE keep doing Interviews.. Your Presence and Skill of questioning a Topic and taking interviews is immensely Missed and Valued!
But many may oppose your views. Ye hindustan hai, land of Gurujis. Everybody is an expert here.
How many have stood with Ashok Khemka?
IAS Association is a joke.
Or with Harsh Mander
or with Sanjiv Bhatt
Logical questions , why no one stood with That IAS
ias are like pack of hyena
Not just IAS,good guy are not staying in other sectors of current industries as well. Main issue here lies with difference in ideology. Good guy who don't agree with systems decision and their ideology are targeted at larger figure.
Oh. So your definition of good guy is one who supports your ideology? Nice.
Sachin Suryavanshi , you are almost spot on.
IAS officers must be paid salaries equivalent to what managers are paid in corporates, this will not only shun away corruption but it will also be useful to attract the best talent in the country
A significant percentage of IAS probationers admit that the prestige & power associated with this premier service was a motivating factor for them. And this is understandable in the Indian cultural context where status, power & prestige needs(esteem needs) have always been very high. If that be the case, it would only be normal for this lot of youngsters to satisfy those needs as they move ahead in their careers. To expect them to imbibe the public services ethos and become genuine servants of the people would be naivity.
The average age of the IAS probationer is about 27-28 yrs. By this age, their value systems have been formed and their personality development process nearly complete. Training at LBSNAA can impart knowledge and skills. But their is little it can do to bring about any significant shift in the attitudinal makeup of the probationers.
Corrupting Indian values have permeated the IAS, as they have in the other services as well. The 'Indianisation' of these services in that sense, is now complete.
Great views ..any ethics paper in civil services exams cannot bring ethics in a civil servant .integrity and character in some of them are unwaivered ..
Interviewing this man is a zero sum game. He contradicts what he says in the very next and by the end you're left with a feeling of helplessness and apathy. I know he's a diplomat and hence he has to service both sides of the argument but really, if you're making a point then for gods sake, make it
When politicians and judiciary is corrupt and our society respects quick money, then why to blame only one section of executive.
varun jalan u got it right.
True af
When IAS is counted as most superior then they shouldn't be counted as such even.
@@piyushmishra4694 these are just excuses bro. If we need to build right system make it accountable. Culture of strict accountability has to be enforced. Lok Pal was a good system, it should have been implemented. Nobody is above anybody.
It is also corrupt senior IAS officers which forces or encourages younger IAS people to become corrupt over time.
Oh yeah that inspiration help them to Be Corrupt by bargaining their conscious!
Rarely goid off7icers come to light! Mostly they dance to the tune of politicians and also corrupt!
@@brahminmosam625 thy are left with no option....what will u do when u strt receiving death threats from ur so called govt,chalo apna toh chodo ...bt will u compromise fr ur family?no....its just tht be in tht place nd judge it,we start taunting or trolling them who are just a medium of govt ,bt never questn our so called "govt"....my friend is as IFS officer,nd many a times she wants to do many things bt stopped by our own peoples nd ideologies of our govt🙂...hope u will also take into consideratn this point
@@riya-dg3kx hello sir you are talking about recent developments ! On tge date if independance the ICS( PRESENTLY IAS) OFFICERS ARE ONLY HIGHER CASTES! SIBCE INDEPENDANCE THE POLITICAL ADMINISTRATION GUIDED BY THESE PEOPLE!THEY WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR CORRUPTION IN ALL DRPARTNENTS!RARELY WE HAD GOOD OFFICERS! YOU CAN NAME THEM 95 PERCENT ONLY FRAUDSTERS! DID AT ANY TIME IN THE PAST PWD DID GOOD CONSTRUCTION! MOTOR VEHICLES DEPARTMENT USDUED LICENCE TI HEAVY VEHICLES WITHOUT MOBEY! DID REGISTRATION DEPT DID REGISTRATION WITHOUT RECEIVING MONEY!DID ANY REVENUE OFFICIAL DID ISDUE A CERTIFICATE WITHOUT GETTING MINEY! DID CONTRACTS IN VARIOUS DEPARTMENTS WERE ALLOCATED WITHOUT BRIBE! DID EVER POLICE WORK HONESTLY ! THE RULES WERE BENT FOR BRIBE!INSPITE IF GOID SALARIES ALL DEPARTMENTS CORRUPT IN THE PAST ; IN THE PRESENT ABD IN TGE FEATURE! GOOD OFFICERS ARE VERY RARE!
@@brahminmosam625 higher caste....2016 topper tina dabi she is SC,2018 topper kanishk kataria is SC...its better nt to take sensible topic"caste"....i m nt talking abt after independence blah blah blah....i m just saying tht be in tht place nd judge it,i m a banker nd i know all prerequisites of bank ,so i can tell where the banking system is lacking,anyway u seems to be very frustrating....so why dont u cover up this coveted exam,nd be a honest benchmark 🤓🤓...all the best,bye
Karan sir .... pls.do not vanish .... there should be at least few 'men standing' who can fearlessly take-on the power honchos
Introduce hiring and firing, performance based hikes and promotions. Ministers who appoint, transfer or fire an officer should have to justify their decision on paper
Comeon man, we all know the changes made by rules will not be implemented by finding loopholes in the rules.
Impretion Formation is good
Not Self SatisffyAnd Ego Centric personality
Mnn changa TO katthoti main ganga yah kahavvvat ttttCharitarth hoti hain Her Field par person ko mnn ❤️Vachn❤️ karm se ujjval hona Padtega huaa to Ganga pass hi hain Kukarmiee hain TO Piramid hi Ultaa chlegaa Not positive attitude
Jai Bharat Jai Sanatan
It's not jus IAS . It's really takes everything to be honest in government system be it peon or IAS.
When someone is aspirant they will say I want to do this and that for the people and when they become IAS they think like they are God.
Karan sir please interview pm once again 😂😂😂
Then he will again ask fr water😁😂😂😂nd hang up in the middle,nd strt accusing him of being anti nationalist,nd our so educated people will admire him fr like no reason nd "aaj tak" channel will show him a star☀....bhai bht problem ho jaegi,😂😂😂😂
quite interesting 😀😀
Dosti Bani rhe bass
He will again say bas bht ho gya'mai chahta hu karan dosti bani rhe'😂🤣🤣
See thapars interview with subramanian swamy.
Excellent Conversation 👍
The new generation of civil servants does not have the guts to confront politicians as the get intimidated by their dominating (thuggish) temperament. The interview process gives more significance to a bookish (sometimes frail) than to a more practical person with better personality traits.
This is not my opinion but my father's who is currently a civil servant in All India Services.
What a jourlist thapar sir
Would Mr.Saxsena like to comment " during olden days they talked, who is (IAS ) corrupt among the lot? Now the orientation has changed and they look for an honest one. "
Mr Saxena was DD at the LBSNAA at Mussoorie when I was a probationer. What a brilliant, outstanding officer.
Never see any honest IAS officers in my entire life till today...
This idiot must be the real trump coz he don't even know that IAS is a part of Indian govt. Not USA
*17:00** HARSH REALITY!!*
Haha nice wordplay!
Atal ka bhi khulasa ho gaya bhai
Mr Thapper never surrender front of government, otherwise he would have best puppet of government.
Good job
Really you deserve a lot but unfortunately our society still growing.
He surrenders after congress he is clown of congress
Yes. People like u should grow.
Not now but he was a puppet
Gentleman is saying IAS is still very good while admitting 30% officers are corrupt. Imagine 30% of employees in an organisation being corrupt. The organisation will collapse within no time. Here they are still going strong and called "still very good". No wonder India is where it is.
Imagine a country where 43% of your parliamentarians are facing serious criminal charges. Your parliament has become a den of thieves happily elected by chamchagiris . The country is headed for a fall.
education and health are some of the MAJOR FREAKING AREAS!!
the great healthy conversation which needed most in these times.
Retired officers can be used for their services as consultants to use their experiences with out any financial or political greedyness.
Like the topic on Islam and Muslim....
It's the Muslims who has to come out and be open like others. The blind following without criticality is always danger. One must have a chance to put a question before following or believing in some thing. It's the core thing..
What a stunning and eye opening interview!! Thank you both SIRs!🙏
Mr. Saxena is denying his own statements given in his own book. Perhaps he is afraid of backlash.
A thought provoking interview.I wish Karan had included question to elicit answers from Saxsena as to the situations prevailing in other countries particularly like Singapore and how global best practices could be incorporated in the civil services system.One of the main causes of degeneration is obviously to do with our political system and the quality of leadership that it throws up in the field of PUBLIC service.I recall reading an article in the ECONOMIST that democracy as a system has inherent weaknesses and suffer from what it calls adverse selection.It shuns capable ,honest and industrious and simple persons and attracts venal.Thus there can be no hope that civil servants can escape from the present predicament. One solution could be bring about structural changes in the present governance system itself ,such as have smaller states and have smaller governments with not more than seven or eight ministers and directly elected Governors at state level.Further prescribe qualifications to be eligible to stand as candidates in elections.Only tried and tested persons and who display strong energy to solve problems should be in the fray.A rule that only persons who have worked as IAS or Defence services or held senior Management positions in Top 200 company's or World class organization , would be a panacea for our country.
Aren't we too corrupt, bribing to get our work done? Aren't the corporates corrupt, bribing to get clearances for various things? We give, they take. That's the basic funda. Behavioral change is needed both among civilians and govt. employees, along with stringent vigilance laws.
Why judiciary is failing,why political leaders are failing,why corporates are failing
Good questions.
Absolutely right! Heydays of India in all sphere hve gone.. be it IAS, Service sector job, medical practiniers.. India is at her downhill journey.. education has gone down, teachers have not much faculty.. quite worrisome.. only one character thrive is of is jugad, and faking at at level..
IAS are intelligent but show intelligence in how to escape work and squeeze money from stakeholders. I agree not all are corrupt but most of them are.
Omg. Impressed by both' s eloquence and in depth analysis.
Wonderful interview sir you both were awesome we youngsters need guidance of seniors and role models as you not the leaders with mear promises to change our lives. Thank you so much sir please take interview of such persons ( from my sides the person who can only reshape the future of India). Again thank you sir continue with your hard work
Hope to see you soon with another such an awesome interview.
That is the mind that is needed to become a great IAS officer.
Thank you sir.
IAS has let down the country. The author writes this in the book but tones down in the present interview. The reality is that if anyone meets an IAS officer his work is unlikely to be done unless he shows some “connection” with a politician or bureaucrat. IAS now stands for “I AM SORRY”. And changes will not come from the views of retired IAS officers, but from the feedback of real stakeholders, i e the public.
Enjoyed the interview, liked Mr Saxena's point on need of honesty, critical thinking and inquisitiveness for the countries top most bureaucrats.
A kind of interview seldom seen in today’s world.
Keep up the great work sir
No matter what these people say, the scope and relevance of IAS remain as high as ever b4. It's just that each one has to continually rediscover theme!
A.small town bastard like you would like it
@@shrisub881
Very civilized.
But keep in mind the fact that not only IAS but also any other services like IPS, IRS, etc. are conforming based jobs.....There is never transformation or reformation in the system.....Everything is under the control of judiciary laws & constitutional constraints......So, over the years in service, automatically so called the spark of changing the nation & society is converting into the adaptability in the ongoing system though there are many flaws & loopholes in it.....
Great interview. Loved watching, hearing to the wonderful questions and answers.
Who will ensure the transparency of our political executives?
Albeit, some Babus are corrupt but certain politicians are taking a "Holier than thou " attitude. This is the irony.
Too too much political interference has resulted to this downfall. If political parties do not mend their ways, the overall system is bound to collapse. Blaming the executive only is not of any use. Remember how many times in 24 hours was Late T.N. Seshan transferred. Elect better politicians, then only can all these things change towards better. Politicians with criminal background should be jailed and not allowed to contest election for 100 years and then see the change.
I just love karan thapar ❤♥♥♥
It was a real pleasure watching this interview, very valuable insight.
*Out of the College & With 0 (ZERO), Industrial Experience or Specialization is the Problem & it FAILED*
The best comment......
I wish he did some research on how "RESERVATIONS" also impacted Bureaucracy. How the delay is getting things done by the bureaucrats also impacted the country and its economy.
Poda punda
Mr Saxena sounds very logical in last half n appreciable
We love Karan thapar interviews. Awesome.
My friend was with NITI Aayog in Jharkhand for which he had to assist IAS in remotest districts. He saw young IAS all driven, pepped up eager to bring change vs older IAS who didn't care and had become a part of the system, all saab attitude from poor locals. And Punjab IAS don't do well as locals are richer and don't see IAS as saab, they earn more than IAS and hence less power gap
Corruption is not jus about money . It's very vast term but we limited it to bribe only. Sometime being silent when you need to yell loudly is also corruption
🙏🙏
The frequent transfers motivated by political power are a real issue in the service
Time bound promotion , no control over subordinates, no incentive for performance , no real penalty for under performance , penalty for risk taking and taking initiative, no penalty for taking no action and no decision making, transferred constantly to irrelevant departments , ..etc...it's a miracle that ias are still able to do something.
It's good to see Mr Thapar back in action, doing what he does quite well!
19:10 Shows that Dr. Manmohan Singh was always a smart economist , but didn't have the spine to stand up against congress' populism
Politics is the art of possible.
You are wrong Look at his recod He was a leftist from the 60s to 1991 and changed tack when he found that he and the system had failed.
He is a smart survivor.
When the book writer said that there's a "very little" moral decline in IAS, Thapar touched his temple and it seemed to me that he thought the same thing I thought. "What bullshit!"
Just remove the power of politicians to transfer IAS 4 times a year and see.
Karn, I missed you so much... Where have you been? Why not uploading upfront video on HTN
The Government, the Civil Services and the People know where the problems lie but no one is willing to take steps to fix them. Reason enough for India to be counted among the third world countries and not reach the standards set by the Scandinavian countries and Japan
We need inspiration from Japan! They are truly amazing
I salute bureaucrats like him and Mr Ashok .
Love and respect.
Both are poles apart If you admire Khemka you cannot like Saxena. Khemka is clean and neutral
My friends I am not scholar of Islam but I have some very very close Muslim friends, in fact I have lived with them at their homes!! My opinions is that Sufism has constructed bridges between Islam and other religions (especially Hinduism) moreover it has propagated and substantiated Islam in India. Thousands of examples are there ( whole medieval period is full of them Sufi-Bhakti etc.) Condemning Sufism by orthodox is not new, demonising/demolishing their sacred-places, killing Sufi-singers in Pakistan etc. I just want those orthodox-supporters to ask themselves whether they recite Namaz five times a day, do they truly allocate a part of their income for Zakat or they just habitually love to attend Zakir Naik. You will certainly notice that condemning arts, music, technical development, death-threats or issuing Fatvas are very much endorsed, and enjoyed by these Salafi/Wahabi elements. I do believe Prophet Muhammad was a great personage who never supported violence in this manner.🙏🏻
I do agree with you my brother but as far as I know Prophets or Rasool never instructed the Sunnis/Wahhabis/Talibanis to plunder Shiite-mosques or to kill Sufi-singers/musicians or to break the Buddha statues. I am a Hindu and not a fan of Sufism but as we study history, Sufism has fostered harmony and enforced Islam in the hearts of other people.
Please take an interview on “Police Reforms”. Just need of the hour.
Why the hell they were do the service for 30 year
The irony is they complete their tenure and then realise that of IAS is not able to delivering for what the post was created
We can also say it cheap media stunt
With stats and data? Well your prejudices take over your common sense, they do service because many fight, or find genuine way, or it is better to continue doing with whatever resource you have in mean time aspiring for conditions to get better, like Mr. Khemka and many others, but this is the person who has seen different eras, and has more experience than your age, and he is saying the quality deteriorated only to be better again in last 15 years, pay attention brother pay attention. Someone has to jump into the sewer to clean it that doesn't mean they like the whole process, but they want to clean the shit more than anything and make people's life better.
We don't want our kids to go for IAS, it's really a dirty business.
Ias is not a cake walk first make your children capable enough to become ias then talk..
@@aasthasharma8927 They are very capable 🙂 elder one already published a book at the age of 16.
Publishing a book and cracking upsc are two diffrent things madam have some respect for your nation business is sellimg books not upsc... and m not going to reply you any futhur guys like you are also responsible for our condition..
@@aasthasharma8927 people, who think once they crack UPSC, their lives are all set forever, are responsible for the misuse of their and all their peers' lives in the hands of politicians. Stop blaming the common citizens.
@@aasthasharma8927 what a slave mindset. Authors publishing books are very important to any nation rather than an ias. Loser.
With all regards and respect to The Sh N C Saksena
I want to add that objectivity ,honesty and worst of all calibre has been adversely affected in last two decades.And one additional factor is largely ignored.
Since 1979 when Kothari Commission changed the examination pattern we are getting unbecoming people selected.In other words 80% of selected officers, I am sure, would never have been selected in earlier examination system.
Actually the skewed entrance is providing potentially Mediocres.And this is one of the ignored reason of their under performance.
Can you please expand on it....what was the earlier exam pattern and how it was better
One solution; change the selection system. 45 min interview and year long process of written exam. What a joke!
Sir, Please provide Hindi comments. Also now many people are watching independent media. Yes Sir, we support the journalism you all independent people with a netral stand do. Please upload all english video with Hindi Sub heading too. Thank you and Best luck.👍
What the mind-blowing topics are taking out by the wire in the view!
Thank you the wire
Really enlighting interview. Thank you the wire and Mr.Thapar
Good to see you again sir..🙏🙏
It was ICS pre-independence and there were problems then that lead to to the formation of IAS. Structures do get degraded and need improvements and IAS as a structure needs change
"The world has enough for everyone's needs, but not enough for everyone's greed. "- Gandhi
His statement meant for him also
Little correction: The correct one is: "The world has enough for everyone's need but not sufficient for one persons greed"
I think even to be a politician there should be recruiting body in the country like an IAS services has
In fact, that is already in vogue. i.e. Politicians are recruited by the mandate of people.
@@Instantalignment and we elect people with serious criminal charges against them.
The level of thought, care for honesty, integrity of politicians by the people is thrown out of the window.
Thats how our country ends up third world because we continue to elect him/her as long as he/she is from our caste, creed, religion, ideology!! Not on performance
थापर साहब का जलवा है।
Good sensible and learning interview for juniors.
both of them are unaware of the actual reasons; and, discussing things in a very casual way. society is not yet matured enough to listen, comprehend and accept the truth and reality behind such issues like corruption. those very few, who know the actual reason, may never blame politics, politician or government.
Interesting that 3 key Modi bureaucrats belong to the Kerala Cadre: Vinod Rai, Amitabh Kant (both IAS) and Ajit Doval (IPS)
Vinod Rai and Amitabh Kant were quite "in' with the Congress and thrived on the support of Antony and company.
Kerala cadre is the pits just now, Until the mid80s it was perhaps the cleanest in India.
I've never seen a interview in such a perfect communication, i am a fan of the interviewer sir, and also agree 100% with the views of the ias officer sir in this interview?
I disagree with the author that IAS in Gujarat are less corrupt
Sometime being not corrupt and being sincere and not able to execute duty makes things look same I guess!
I have no idea of Gujarat IAS officers
So do i
@@musikmadmusik I have worked in Gujarat Government for 36 years from Primary Health Centre to Secretariat as Medical professionals
Only Bihar Jharkhand and Chattisgarh IAS officers are loyal and honest elsewhere they are corrupt..
The second half of the interview is more interesting
Excellent interview Karan!!
I feel they have done their job as good as wanted to be.Many are and were every bossy and corrupt. They feel they are so superior, they have been neglecting their job for all these years.
India needs Administrative Reforms more than Economic Reforms. The colonial administrative system has bought our economy from being 23% of the world economy to 2% at independence and we have not reformed it in 75 years.
Karan Thapar, Please don't spread the lie that IAS attracts some of the brightest and the idealist. The best students and from the elite class never take the Civil Services examination. All the best students come to the USA or work for multinationals or do their own businesses? Civil Services attracts only the Middle Class students and not very well educated students. For your clarification are you talking about Civil Services or IAS specifically because the examination is for Civil Services? I was a Civil Servant and then an Indian Economic Service officer hence asking you to clarify if you are talking about IAS only or all the Civil Servants such as IPS, IRS, ICES, IAAS etc?
@@saurabhdixit1987 Do you even know correctly where to use the word egoistic? Are/were you in the IAS? If yes, I will talk. If not, you are not the competent person to talk.
@@saurabhdixit1987 Since I was in the IAS, so you are yourself saying that I am the best,. In fact after leaving Civil Services when I had joined the Indian Economic Service in 1992, I was sent to Lal Bahadur Shastri National Academy of Administration (LBSNAA)for summer training and N. C Saxena was the Director of LBSNAA at that time. I know him since then. I have seen all the Civil Servants and other class I officers for 30 years. I know how much educated I was at that time, and how much educated my civil servant friends are now. Many of us at training itself in 1993 had decided to leave the service because the service is too mediocre to keep talented people. I am not going to take Corona vaccine and have not taken any vaccine after childhood when I was given in school forcibly. You have it and enjoy.
He's back..
We cannot blame anyone here in this land. Because they are also from us. All are born innocent but this world made them corrupt. Today 90% of govt. employee or public is corrupt in India that includes me and you. How can we correct corrupt? Money and positions are more important in this world now. We need money to live as per "their's" standard. So do wrong. Every institution is headed by corrupt people. They spent money to reach there; and need money to recover the spent. It is deeply routed in India. Why alone politicians?
Have any one bothered why notification for govt. Jobs come out just before election. Bcoz govt. Need huge amount of money .so they sell the seat for 20-25 lakhs it's an open secret. If CBI and ED raid all government employees then 70% of them will be caught in one or other corruption. Including raiding team itself. Today those who are giving 25-25 for a government job firstly they will recover their money. Then they will do some work.
I have subscribe to wire today.. I love your interviews sir.
IAS Kannan Gopinathan resigned from pressure THIS is reson country have not given that much power to IAS
Just think why we r still following laws implmented by british to rule its colony afrer the country itself got independence caliming to be biggest democracy only just that huge number of population are involving in voting system.......
People's right of expression is no more left in Dadra and Nagar Haveli.. People live in fear.
As a country where we are going for knows
ua-cam.com/video/dNG8dQ8D3d4/v-deo.html
Kannan resigned to join CPim politics. Looser.
@@kmkaks2.085 did he share his plan with you? Just curious to know
Reason behind failing of IAS/IPS services lies in there training curriculum. .. in both cases they have been trained to remain away from society which was requirement during era and remained continued in independent India. ..
How rich this conversation is!
Almost everything Mr Saxena tells about the civil services and governance is the contrary in Kerala. A remarkable vindication of the Kerala model of governance and culture.
Very valuable point at 35.00 for everyone
So it all brings to loyalty,faith and rewards, today it is 30% tomorrow it will be 40%, 50%, so how far this can go ?
Is this the problem with our culture? Culture of always being ambitious, rat race etc..
When I see karan thapar I instantly remember DOSTI BANI RAHE 😂
The problem in my opinion is the skills sets possessed by the bureacrazy in India . It is mainly generalist with serious lack of new age skills . I have a friend working at RBI and he does not even know how to perform a vlookup in excel to look for specific data. The Average exams conducted for these jobs are of secondary school syllabus with no test of domain expertise. Although this isn't all bad since even IIM Graduate fall in same domain but unlike the babus , corporate sector by nature of competition makes a person to reskill and keep learning
Hats off to you Sir 🫡
I think Mr. Saxena kept a macro view over the matter. IAS yearn for significant post, because it involves more money. Infact significance is a reflection of the budget allotted. Honest IAS are not significant in number. Mr. Saxena is suffiently partial.
Worth listening the discussion. A professional approach of interview in my view
Not only fear of Muslims but also create dominance in population.