@@joelsusser32 Up until recently, Oracle's stewardship of MySQL appears to have been rather benign, unlike some of the other software projects they have acquired. Without MariaDB this might not have been the case, though, as its competition may have helped drive MySQL development forward and keep most features open source. So yes, forking can certainly be a force for good!
Great Video!!! MySQL was immediately forked to MariaDB when Oracle acquired Sun Microsystems. Also you forgot to mention PostgreSQL which is opensource and Oracle compliant database.
MySQL started life as MyISAM (ISAM was all the range on mainframes and minicomputers in the 1970's and 1980's). BTW, "My" is the name of the daughter of Michael "Monty" Widenius. When the product is forked, Monty names the new product after his other daughter, Maria.
Great video, well done! One of the reasons for MySQL's initial success was due to how well it integrated with Linux, Apache web server and PHP in the LAMP stack which became incredibly popular for web apps in the late 90s and early 2000s.
If Oracle had had a free-tier, we may have had the LAOP stack! :O j/k Oracle will never have a free anything... Even MySQL is only free for a limited number of use cases. As a user of Oracle, PostgreSQL, MySQL, MariaDB, SQL Server, and many other now dead RDBMS systems, today's best choice (in my opinion) is PostgreSQL---unless you absolutely need 100% MySQL drop-in compatibility---and in that case you would want MariaDB.
MySQL went after people who would be using MS Access, but didn't want to be locked into the Microsoft ecosystem. It didn't, originally, scale to a level which competed with Oracle. These days, it scales a lot more. PostGres scales far better and, potentially, scales enough to challenge Oracle. My own experience has been MySQL for smaller stuff, IBM DB/2 for larger stuff (it's the only one which truly scales to the level of Oracle), MS SQL Server here and there (it's somewhere in between MySQL / Access and Oracle / DB/2 in terms of scale) and increasing use of PostGres. People I know who use Oracle hate it with a burning passion because, as mentioned in the video, Oracle has a history of impressing the C-Suite with promises of what all they can do (overpromising), then honking off the people who have to implement it because of how poorly it does so (underdelivering). The fact that Larry Ellison is so wealthy feels like a travesty, as he's made a fortune from peddling crap.
I knew Steve Jobs had been adopted, but didn’t know Ellison was also. They were friends, and I now wonder if that was shared experience was a glue in their friendship, as they were quite different.
Brilliant observation, you might be on to something. Jobs got along with few people so his friendship with Ellison must have been underpinned by some deep emotional connection.
And no one ever mentions that MySQL was a fork of mSQL, the idea and built upon it (as open source is designed to do). Back in the mid nineties I met David Hughes who developed mSQL at a sysadmin conference. At that time he seemed to be enjoying developing mSQL, but a few years later he essentially gave up leadership to MySQL who took over the market segment mSQL had taken for itself.
I have been using Microsoft Access since 2002 with my first microcomputer. I learned to use this relational database program on my own. Once I used the database program, Microsoft Access became my favorite application software. Microsoft Word was my springboard because I have been typewriting since I was 12 years old. The relational database program makes organizing and managing information right in the privacy of my home as nice and nifty like printing business documents and files on my [color] laser printer. I hope Tech History Channel will make stories about Borland Paradox and Microsoft Access.
It's great to hear about your wonderful experience with relational databases, I will definitely add Borland Paradox and Microsoft Access to my list of video ideas. Thanks for the suggestion!
Thank you, well written article. Nice to mention IBM's DB2. True, DB2 may not dominate the relational database market, as a developer for decades on the IBM mainframe, that's the primary database one uses. Though, it seems Oracle is often alternative DB for many of the shops that I worked at. Yet, I'm surprised, not much was mentioned about MS SQL Server. However, I'm curious has there been much on bench mark tests of the volume handle by the various vendors of Databases.
I wrote the script in a way that centered the story around Larry Ellison, so I omitted Postgres because it falls largely outside the influence of Ellison.
I suppose Oracle's relationship with the gov't (11:20) was perhaps how Oracle evaded any antitrust problems with the Justice Department, like Microsoft and IBM had. And now, they are hammering Apple and Alphabet/Google and others.
Nice video pur one question why did you neglect to mention PosrgreSQL , they evene billed themselves as a better oraccale than Oracle for a while, or was that post the db wars?
I wrote the script in a way that centers around Larry Ellison, the first part of the video was about the war that occurred at the beginning of the advent of RDMS and then the later stage was about how he solidified control by taking control of his biggest competitor. PostgreSQL falls out of Ellison's influence and thus I couldn't really fit it into the script.
You are a simp... missing the point of this content. No one cares about some open source woke crap like Postgres or Ruby on Rails. The producer is talking about larger changes in modern information technology and how IBM gave away the entire IP that the information tech industry enjoys today.
I wrote the script in a way that centers Larry Ellison in the story, Postgres largely falls outside of Larry Ellison's sphere of influence thus I couldn't really fit into the video.
Compared to how these stories normally go Oracle mostly just had a really good sales team. It doesnt sound like they lied about what their product could do, and it sounds like they did build the features they promised, and the left MySql as free, Even this documentary seems to think of the rumours as an afterthought. Perhaps Im missing context but they dont seem particularly ruthless by monopoly standards.
Sun at the time was falling off a cliff with its products that were facing strong competition from the free open source upstarts such as Linux that was eating Solaris' lunch and was increasingly being seen as outdated and out of touch with the current market needs. Java wasn't generating as much recurring revenue as they hoped. The fact that it also didn't have a clear roadmap nor any immediate plans to steer the ship certainly didn't help. So when Jonathan Schwartz took over the company as CEO, he decided to slowly turn the company into a open source company, kinda like RedHat except that Sun didn't really have that pedigree and was heavily invested into its proprietary products and services. So they started to open source things like Java, Solaris and acquire successful open source companies such as the makers of StarOffice (that eventually became LibreOffice) and MySQL and try to figure out a business model that would help to keep them afloat.
@@RogerioPereiradaSilva77 Thanks! In business world it's usually either about buying out competitors or widening the customer base; this purchase just seemed odd to me as open source software isn't really the most obvious money making machine. p.s. Still remember wrestling with StarOffice...how far have things evolved since then 😃
Additive data on time line then we can reduce 4 gbytes 4 k movies down to less than 6 records each of 6 fields of 6× 64 bits each field less than 216 bytes plus 2 frame the first frame and last frame of text , video , or presentation , or even sound
Not all capitalist companies operate like that. Promising features that don’t exist and spreading rumors about your competition is unethical, and some capitalist companies prioritize ethics. Being unethical is risky in the modern day because of publicity. Enron. Enough said.
Kinda left out back story. I was on the team at citibank orcl 1st comerical cust in 83. The product was a buggy joke like not support for decimal nbrs, row level locki g and yeah indexes didnt work and you got oh yeah dod complained the uk mod said they saw argentine misxiles as friendly. Performace was a joke as a cab could cross the brooklyn bride b4 an insert would compiete. I feel my bkss zaved orcl as a vet marine he had zero tolerance for thier bs. I would say that plus the purchase of decs rdb product wbich brought real row locking, ckustering, and features like domains which are just coming in v23ai. They got bladed out by ai as br thier insanely high suport fees where causing custs to goto the cloud to zave tons of $.
As a veteran of the DB Wars from the late 1980s on up, all I have to say today is THANK GOODNESS FOR PostgreSQL!
Was Oracle's success really just because of Ellison's ruthless marketing or was it really good, also? Thanks!
Postgres is the new king
Slowgresql 😂
I think you misspelled SQL Server 😉
PostgreSQL is amazing!!
With the fork of mariaDB, I'm not sure Oracle buying mysql caused any serious concerns. Thank goodness for forks.
@@joelsusser32 Up until recently, Oracle's stewardship of MySQL appears to have been rather benign, unlike some of the other software projects they have acquired. Without MariaDB this might not have been the case, though, as its competition may have helped drive MySQL development forward and keep most features open source. So yes, forking can certainly be a force for good!
Great Video!!! MySQL was immediately forked to MariaDB when Oracle acquired Sun Microsystems. Also you forgot to mention PostgreSQL which is opensource and Oracle compliant database.
Is it that PostgreSQL is Oracle compliant, or is it that PostgreSQL is ANSI/ISO compliant of which Oracle is also compliant?
@@aytviewer2421 lol yes this. pretty sure postgres is not "oracle compliant".
Maybe they mean its programming language is Oracle like.
What I meant was that it also supports PL/SQL just like Oracle.
PostgreSQL is not compatible
MySQL started life as MyISAM (ISAM was all the range on mainframes and minicomputers in the 1970's and 1980's). BTW, "My" is the name of the daughter of Michael "Monty" Widenius. When the product is forked, Monty names the new product after his other daughter, Maria.
I didn't know that, truly interesting information :)
Great video, well done! One of the reasons for MySQL's initial success was due to how well it integrated with Linux, Apache web server and PHP in the LAMP stack which became incredibly popular for web apps in the late 90s and early 2000s.
If Oracle had had a free-tier, we may have had the LAOP stack! :O j/k
Oracle will never have a free anything... Even MySQL is only free for a limited number of use cases.
As a user of Oracle, PostgreSQL, MySQL, MariaDB, SQL Server, and many other now dead RDBMS systems, today's best choice (in my opinion) is PostgreSQL---unless you absolutely need 100% MySQL drop-in compatibility---and in that case you would want MariaDB.
Glad you enjoyed the video, and thanks for the bit of extra context!
MySQL went after people who would be using MS Access, but didn't want to be locked into the Microsoft ecosystem. It didn't, originally, scale to a level which competed with Oracle. These days, it scales a lot more.
PostGres scales far better and, potentially, scales enough to challenge Oracle. My own experience has been MySQL for smaller stuff, IBM DB/2 for larger stuff (it's the only one which truly scales to the level of Oracle), MS SQL Server here and there (it's somewhere in between MySQL / Access and Oracle / DB/2 in terms of scale) and increasing use of PostGres.
People I know who use Oracle hate it with a burning passion because, as mentioned in the video, Oracle has a history of impressing the C-Suite with promises of what all they can do (overpromising), then honking off the people who have to implement it because of how poorly it does so (underdelivering). The fact that Larry Ellison is so wealthy feels like a travesty, as he's made a fortune from peddling crap.
omg I can't forget MyISAM lol.
yeah...once you work with postgres there's no going back to mysql...
I knew Steve Jobs had been adopted, but didn’t know Ellison was also. They were friends, and I now wonder if that was shared experience was a glue in their friendship, as they were quite different.
Brilliant observation, you might be on to something. Jobs got along with few people so his friendship with Ellison must have been underpinned by some deep emotional connection.
And no one ever mentions that MySQL was a fork of mSQL, the idea and built upon it (as open source is designed to do). Back in the mid nineties I met David Hughes who developed mSQL at a sysadmin conference. At that time he seemed to be enjoying developing mSQL, but a few years later he essentially gave up leadership to MySQL who took over the market segment mSQL had taken for itself.
interesting bit of history :)
Fun fact: My dad met Larry Ellison when he was a kid at a Unix expo.
That's pretty cool!
It was a sad day for MySQL community
Larry Ellison strikes me as a Bill Gates type…ruthless and hyper competitive
Funny enough him and Bill Gates had a bit of a rivalry in the 80s and 90s as the two software titans leading the two biggest software companies.
True, read his autobiographies on founders podcast
Or as a Steve Jobs, adopted child takes others' ideas, improves them and sells them as his own.
It's in my vision every beam of light and collum art of log that can float
Stonebreaker is such a badass name
Hell yeah it is!
Amazing story telling! Thank you! :)
Glad you enjoyed it!!!
I have been using Microsoft Access since 2002 with my first microcomputer. I learned to use this relational database program on my own. Once I used the database program, Microsoft Access became my favorite application software. Microsoft Word was my springboard because I have been typewriting since I was 12 years old. The relational database program makes organizing and managing information right in the privacy of my home as nice and nifty like printing business documents and files on my [color] laser printer. I hope Tech History Channel will make stories about Borland Paradox and Microsoft Access.
It's great to hear about your wonderful experience with relational databases, I will definitely add Borland Paradox and Microsoft Access to my list of video ideas. Thanks for the suggestion!
Sounds like an interesting topic, but I couldn't make out what was being said as the loud music soundtrack drowned out the words.
get your hearing checked lol.
Same issue here, background music was simply too loud. I really enjoyed the footage, though!
Thank you, well written article. Nice to mention IBM's DB2. True, DB2 may not dominate the relational database market, as a developer for decades on the IBM mainframe, that's the primary database one uses. Though, it seems Oracle is often alternative DB for many of the shops that I worked at. Yet, I'm surprised, not much was mentioned about MS SQL Server. However, I'm curious has there been much on bench mark tests of the volume handle by the various vendors of Databases.
Glad you enjoyed, I am not quite sure if there have been benchmark tests of that nature, but it would interest to know!
4:35
Stewart Cheifet's combover!!
To many people an even greater classic in the computer world than either Oracle and MySQL databases!!
What, no mention of Postgres?
I wrote the script in a way that centered the story around Larry Ellison, so I omitted Postgres because it falls largely outside the influence of Ellison.
You should also do a segment on how Microsoft "appropriated" Sybase and branded it as their own.
I will add that to the video list :)
I suppose Oracle's relationship with the gov't (11:20) was perhaps how Oracle evaded any antitrust problems with the Justice Department, like Microsoft and IBM had. And now, they are hammering Apple and Alphabet/Google and others.
relationship is not what I will call a CIA sponsored company.
That's an interesting point
amazing quality!
Thanks!
amazing vid keep it up
Thanks, will do!
This is Art
I GREATLY appreciate this comment!!!!
Nice video pur one question why did you neglect to mention PosrgreSQL , they evene billed themselves as a better oraccale than Oracle for a while, or was that post the db wars?
I wrote the script in a way that centers around Larry Ellison, the first part of the video was about the war that occurred at the beginning of the advent of RDMS and then the later stage was about how he solidified control by taking control of his biggest competitor. PostgreSQL falls out of Ellison's influence and thus I couldn't really fit it into the script.
You are a simp... missing the point of this content. No one cares about some open source woke crap like Postgres or Ruby on Rails.
The producer is talking about larger changes in modern information technology and how IBM gave away the entire IP that the information tech industry enjoys today.
Really good. Thank you.
Glad you liked it!
Please do time lime version of your video, like all tech from 1980 to 1985 and talk about tech from that 5 year period
Will add this idea to my video idea list!
@@Tech_History_Channel thank you
Great video! Thank you!
Glad you liked it!
Nice video
Thanks!
You left out Postgres
And DEC's RDB which was taken over by and it's advanced features such as cost based optimization incorporated into Oracle.
I wrote the script in a way that centers Larry Ellison in the story, Postgres largely falls outside of Larry Ellison's sphere of influence thus I couldn't really fit into the video.
@@Tech_History_Channel I see your point. Makes sense
My mom worked on the Oracle vs DOJ anti trust case, which Oracle won. In total they paid her firm about $500mil
That's a check with a lot of zeros :)
Long live PostgreSQL
Long live indeed!
With the acquisition of Sun Oracle also got Java.
True, I might cover Sun in a bit more detail in a future video :)
Wow this was great!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Compared to how these stories normally go Oracle mostly just had a really good sales team. It doesnt sound like they lied about what their product could do, and it sounds like they did build the features they promised, and the left MySql as free, Even this documentary seems to think of the rumours as an afterthought. Perhaps Im missing context but they dont seem particularly ruthless by monopoly standards.
Fair analysis :)
I know a southern African when I hear one😂
Good stuff mate
Spot On! Glad you enjoyed my content :)
Any insight on why Sun was interested in acquiring MySQL?
Sun at the time was falling off a cliff with its products that were facing strong competition from the free open source upstarts such as Linux that was eating Solaris' lunch and was increasingly being seen as outdated and out of touch with the current market needs. Java wasn't generating as much recurring revenue as they hoped. The fact that it also didn't have a clear roadmap nor any immediate plans to steer the ship certainly didn't help. So when Jonathan Schwartz took over the company as CEO, he decided to slowly turn the company into a open source company, kinda like RedHat except that Sun didn't really have that pedigree and was heavily invested into its proprietary products and services. So they started to open source things like Java, Solaris and acquire successful open source companies such as the makers of StarOffice (that eventually became LibreOffice) and MySQL and try to figure out a business model that would help to keep them afloat.
@@RogerioPereiradaSilva77 Thanks! In business world it's usually either about buying out competitors or widening the customer base; this purchase just seemed odd to me as open source software isn't really the most obvious money making machine.
p.s. Still remember wrestling with StarOffice...how far have things evolved since then 😃
Additive data on time line then we can reduce 4 gbytes 4 k movies down to less than 6 records each of 6 fields of 6× 64 bits each field less than 216 bytes plus 2 frame the first frame and last frame of text , video , or presentation , or even sound
There exist a lot of companies which believe that Oracle is a "god".
Unfortunately :(
Background music is ubearable.
I will work on reducing it, thanks for the feedback!
I think MS sql is the biggest one
16:10 sounds like managed vs unmanaged code back in the days. I'd say oracle is for lazy people these days.
Well, didn't seem "ruthless" to me, it was just typical american capitalism and competitiveness... It's aggressive competition, but nothing shocking
True :)
Not all capitalist companies operate like that. Promising features that don’t exist and spreading rumors about your competition is unethical, and some capitalist companies prioritize ethics. Being unethical is risky in the modern day because of publicity. Enron. Enough said.
@@michaelplautz5108 still nothing shocking and doesn't seem "ruthless" to me
Kinda left out back story. I was on the team at citibank orcl 1st comerical cust in 83. The product was a buggy joke like not support for decimal nbrs, row level locki g and yeah indexes didnt work and you got oh yeah dod complained the uk mod said they saw argentine misxiles as friendly. Performace was a joke as a cab could cross the brooklyn bride b4 an insert would compiete. I feel my bkss zaved orcl as a vet marine he had zero tolerance for thier bs.
I would say that plus the purchase of decs rdb product wbich brought real row locking, ckustering, and features like domains which are just coming in v23ai.
They got bladed out by ai as br thier insanely high suport fees where causing custs to goto the cloud to zave tons of $.
Fascinating experience!
would #SATAN use Oracle or MySQL to keep track of who's naughty, not nice?
I reckon he'd be endlessly frustrated by the complexity of Databases and revert to using paper and pen😂
Bet his adopted dad feels silly now
Definitely :)
Constructive feedback: If this many people point out an oversight, it is a good idea to acknowledge the oversight and correct it.
what do you mean?
What is up with the voice over? Had to abandon.
Working on improving it :)
@@Tech_History_Channel I honestly loved it the way it was.