I originally heard about this project in Future Magazine in the 1970's (long gone now). After 40 years, I visited Arcosanti two years ago and to tell you the truth, it is dying. It is inhabited by a few hipsters who continue to cast the bronze bells, but nothing else appears to be going on. What is needed is someone with the drive and vision to raise funding to continue the project and bring it to fruition Good luck with that.
And that is due to people's inability to adapt. Most probably run screaming back into the urban sprawl because they can't handle isolation and confinement. Much like the off-grid dreamers that come and go from my community.
Lots of pie in the sky ideals that ignore human nature and what restricting the city limits will do to the cost of housing. Supply and demand? What's that? Enforced tasteful frugality because you can't afford not to be frugal.
@@michaelb1761 It will DROP the cost. Urban sprawl is the most nonsense, toxic, and destructive form of habitation known to us. Building arcologies, or even apartment towers, is infinitely cheaper, easier to maintain, and a far better use of land, alas, morons in USA see their idiotic mcmansions as a sign of ""success"" and refuse to wake up...
@@KuK137 Take some basic economics. Limiting supply raises prices. Why do you think the price of an apartment in big cities is so expensive? No idea I guess. Seriously take a basic beginner class in economics.
Every town within an hour's drive of Arcosanti has grown leaps and bounds in Arcosanti's lifespan. It may be neat but it isn't appealing to regular folks.
On the outskirts of town you will find the moisture farmers and currently under construction is a cantina, tentatively named Mos Eisley. Do be aware that traveling to this utopia can be dangerous as there are roving bands of raiders known as the Tusken tribe.
The natural environment one gets to explore is full of giant Gila Monsters and Giant Spiders as well. Also packs of coyote's, bands of half human half ape hybrids, and flying saucer abductions are frequent.
Man, I actually had to check to make sure that wasn’t an exact, word for word, excerpt from New Hope. My hat is off for you even putting the idea in my head that it could have been. Very well done indeed sir. Although the Star Wars reference is going to go right over Simons head because...well...he’s a weirdo and hasn’t seen a single Star Wars movie. But please don’t hate him. He knows not what he’s done.
I did Seminar Week back in 1995, and stayed there for an evening back in 2012. It's a pretty fascinating place - not necessarily workable, but feeling like you're living in a 70s sci-fi movie is pretty cool in and of itself.
Prescott and Prescott valley are less than an hour away and have groceries and Costco (and Amazon delivers), so the need to drive to Phoenix would be rare.
@@Hollylivengood Good point. Pragmatically, if you scale up the model, the best you can have walking distance in every neighborhood is a general-store equivalent like a 7-11 or CVS. In the modern world, Amazon delivery is the most feasible way to avoid having to drive miles to a store that has everything you need.
i thought the idea was to grow locally. they could grow all there greens and vegetables on site. chickens for eggs and meat. having to drive regularly to the grocery store defeats the purpose of frugal living. besides, what are the peeps living there doing all day long anyways. Also, contracting with a commercial food supplier would be cheaper than peeps going out and buying groceries at retail prices.
Where I grew up in the early 1980s was a laughing stock with its concrete cows and roundabouts, but I think it did quite well at achieving its urban planning objectives. Milton Keynes. A brand new town at the time. The schools were really modern with lots of facilities like leisure centers and after school there was lots to do in the area. As kids we were always on the go doing stuff outdoors. Business parks meant jobs and we had the big shopping center too. They planted millions of trees, so MK is now one of the greenest urban centers in Europe and the UK. MK has grown and done quite well for itself. It also borrowed a football team and never gave it back. Wimbledon FC. Making good use of the things that we find I guess.
You only have to watch one video and then he takes over your recommendations. The only way to stop it is to watch all of them but that could take a lifetime.
The only way any community can be self sustaining is at subsistence level because they lose the overwhelming benefits of trade, specialisation and innovation. You climate nutjobs can become self sustaining if you'd like. But no phone or WiFi for you and 16 hours physical labour a day, every day. You wouldn't last a week hypocrite
@@darkjudge8786 it is funny how they like to say how wonderful it would be but not one in a thousand want to give up any of the comforts and ease of modern living! They have been sold a fantasy...
As an AZ resident, I’ve passed by many times but never visited. It’s a really fascinating and interesting concept, regardless of the person the creator was.
hot damn whistler ! relevant ! to say the least .... to me anyway ...nice departure from the other videos i have seen of yours ..all good , i might add . variety iz truly the spice of life whistler ...ya'll have a good one ...and until next time .... carry-on , peAce , davis
I live in AZ and went there twice with a decade in between... not a brick had changed and nothing noticeable had progressed in any way. Just an expensive restaurant and t-shirt shop for hippies.
Something that might be a great side project video (prob not enough for a mega project) would be all the physical and technical effects that Industrial Lights and Magic have done over the years. Definitely a leader in the film effects industrty
Things that Soleri got right were his selection of materials suitable for the environment. Of particular interest to me was the earth and/or silt he advocated for concrete formwork which allowed Arcosanti to achieve it's unique physical shapes and aesthetics. The silt casting process makes for highly sustainable formwork, and was an important idea worth mentioning in the video.
When I was an architecture student in the early 1980’s, I had opportunity to do one of the five-week workshops there, but never did it. It has just been in the last couple years I have become interested in Arcosanti. Back in early 2022, I was coming back from a trip from Colorado to California, and after leaving Flagstaff AZ, we stopped at Arcosanti and did one of the tours. It is a fascinating place, and I would love to spend a weekend there to explore it on my own terms. The old architecture school started by Frank Lloyd Wright at Taliesin West has been relocated to Arcosanti as The School of Architecture that offers a Master of Architecture degree to students interested in Wrights Philosophies.
I've been to Arcosanti. I was bemused during the tour by a gentlemen (I use the term loosely) who insisted on getting combative with the tour guide. He was deeply offended that living in an arcology would require a change of lifestyle. The reduction of personal space, the lack of room for "things," and the absence of common status symbols (like a garage for his expensive car, which apparently, along with his fake Rolex, underpinned much of his ego) were all inexcusable shortcomings. Paolo Soleri did have an eye for the "big picture." However, I have read, and my visit to Arcosanti showed, that he was not good at the details. This shortcoming seems to be one contributor to the project's tepid reception. His reported acerbic ways apparently precluded an effective second team to fill in the blanks that he left. I would love to hear the views of actual Arcosanti residents on these points. I first learned of Paolo Soleri in a large-format magazine ("Life" I believe) in the late 1960's. The magazine did a major article on cities of the future. His vision caught my attention then and I have followed it since. For people interested in designing welcoming living spaces for people, I recommend the book "A Pattern Language." In my opinion, Mr. Soleri could have benefited from reading it. I've just started on "A New Pattern Language for Growing Regions." This title seems more focused on areas that would be dear to Paolo's soul, and supplements the first (much older but still very relevant) title.
@@ziggy2shus624 Why? A real Rolex could be sold. A fake would just be thrown out. If you want a nice looking watch that's reasonably priced by a Vincero watch.
Things that Soleri got right were his selection of materials suitable for the environment. Of particular interest to me was the earth and/or silt he advocated for concrete formwork which allowed Arcosanti to achieve it's unique physical shapes and aesthetics. I will go read A New Pattern Language for Growing Regions- thank you for recommending it.
A Pattern Language was required reading in most Architecture Schools...it was when I studied in mid 80’s. Profs found it the go to book but personally I found it impractical in many ways...perhaps Soleri’s project also lacked in-depth reality since casting bells to support may not be financially feasible & living so closely doesn’t really work...the communal eating area reminds me of my high school cafeteria. Anyways, like to spend a couple of weeks there, but like a cruise liner, I’d probably go bananas after the first day.
@@jmcassonetto "A Pattern Language" seems to inspire either admiration or avoidance. I know individuals who have used it to change their own living spaces and loved the result. I've listened to contractors using salty words because a customer wanted to apply some of the book's principles. The book has many elements of individualism and non-uniformity. As such it is disliked by people who love HOA's (If you are a regimented type who thinks that the only proper house color is taupe, no street parking should be allowed, and garage doors should never be open for more than fifteen minutes, you should stop reading now). It is also impractical for people, like housing development contractors, who keep their profit margins up by stamping out a limited range of designs. The book is focused more on living environments that people fundamentally like to dwell in. This difference between long-term dwelling and short term profit is generally resolved by the nearsighted. I was interested to learn awhile back that the Duke of Cornwall, Prince Charles, has used principles from The Pattern Language in housing developments within Cornwall. I found this out after reading an article from a British paper that said that, according to people living there, the Prince "got it right." Given he is not the most popular person in The Isles, I found this public judgement to be atypical and went digging to learn the source of his inspiration. From this story I conclude that, while changing one's thinking is required, implementing at least some of The Pattern Language principles is reasonably done. I do agree there are implementation problems. I am not in full agreement with the construction methods espoused in the companion book, "The Timeless Way of Building," especially not in earthquake-prone zones. "The Oregon Experiment" indirectly exposed both the need to obtain, and the difficulty of obtaining full engagement of participants. No philosophy is perfect. However, the messages in "The Pattern Language" are worthy of serious consideration.
Nutcase Wright built homes for the very wealthy, not for average people. So, he put a lot of excess items into his home designs that could never be done in homes for the masses.
Locals in the Prescott, Arizona area have seen Arcosanti as a total joke for decades. Prescott, Az is an urban sprawl town about 30 miles away that people like, and it has a population of about 50,000. The people hate Acrosanti, which is why no one lives there. Arcosanti is basically a tourist trap, which scams money off of dreams rather than reality.
Arizonian here: ~30 mins from my house, I've been there, it's....interesting yet not glamorous, amazing or thrilling. Their project has never panned out per a large residency. It has more of a hippy, older build kinda feel, it doesn't feel like a futuristic complex. I will say it suffers from feeling very sterile, dull and dead, it could benefit having hundreds of plants, tress, and natural shade. It's feels more 1960's military bunker than a community and or home.
We used to drive past this place each time we came and went between the Verde Valley and Phoenix. We knew a bit about it, but this fills in the gaps. Good luck to those hardy souls/nutballs who attempt this experiment in living.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject . I truly hope that we wake up and start spreading around and leave farm land in between city's or better yet towns like earlier years so food cost would stay reasonable
I am not surprised that the current population of Arcosanti has stabilized at 200. This is the default size of a human familial tribe (see Dunbar's Number). This default limit is rarely considered, but remains foundational when designing for human habitation and social organization. Unlike apes and our other social mamalian relatives, humans have the capacity for an extra layer of tribal behavior. The associative tribe forms-up on the foundation of the familial tribes and provides inclusion such that a single person may become an associate of many associative tribes. This provides many advantages for the familial tribes and individuals if the default emergent structure is recognized and respected. So in the case of Arcosanti, it would have done a lot better if the architect had designed a series of inter-related, but well-defined physical spaces for separate familial tribes up to a maximum of 200. Such a structure would support a networked series of natural human tribes with the infrastructure to enable the associative layer in a mutually supportive functions. Expansion in increments of 200 would become easy to accommodate, both vertically and horizontaly. Attention to tribal identity would be paramount, with each familial tribe maintaining a well published totem describing its inputs, outputs and functional processes - both physical and cultural. With such well defined totemic identity, the progress and function of associative networks would emerge as needs and circumstances of the arcology evolve - based on totemic commonalities. I observe that humanity tends to suffer when it strays from it's inherent nature. Modern society has strayed so far that it has departed reality in fundamental ways. If humanity continues to deny its basic nature, it will eventually decline until those truths are rediscovered. It would be a tragedy if all of that was simply left to chance given our opportunity to see the truth and simply admit it.
Even though I'm not an architect I do have some passion for how optimal urban living could look like. My own vision is more of a walled city like a huge rectangular mall and everything you need is within the building with a electric train track across the middle on the long side so you don't have to walk very far and smaller transport pods on the short side to get closer to your destination from the middle. With a huge park on the roof, and around the walled city there would be farmland which is trickier to do very space efficiently. However this video gave me two main ideas to add to it such as reducing the travel time to and from work to almost zero by being an elevator ride from where they work in most cases by having residential floors and letting people live right under or above their workplace. Another interesting idea would be to minimize personal area and possessions to the minimum people can live comfortably with. While splurging much more on common areas and amenities to be both luxurious but also quite sustainable. Like do every person need one of everything even though they only use it sometimes? No, so instead of everyone having a pool you could have let's say a x15 as awesome pool/waterpark but shared across 30 families. I think that would result in a positive in life quality for most people while only having half the economic/ecological impact. But you could also do that with things we aren't necessarily used to share in today's society instead of making so many of each thing for every household just because we want it for ourselves even though it's incredibly wasteful. But yeah other than stuff personal spaces don't need to be large if they're only thought of as spaces reserved for things you would really like to be alone doing and instead share upscale versions of everything else that you can efficiently share with others without feeling like you would benefit from having your very own. Man... It's unfortunate that it's pretty much impossible to realize something like this without being given absolute power over a country or something lol. Like a benevolent dictator atleast for a while, however it seems very hard for people in those positions to find motivation to do things with good intentions. So it will probably never happen.
Another interesting place that’s built on the principles of sustainability and self reliance is Emandal, a community in Northern California that has history going back several decades.
Note : 12:25 - residents don't have to drive 100 mi to PHX for groceries. Cottonwood and Sedona are just around the corner (well, at least 40 miles around the corner).
The place is basically a fancy looking hippie commune, so not worth visiting unless you are a fan of random architecture. A true arcology building/complex is still decades away from being realized anywhere in the world, but the concept will probably gain more traction down the road after the zombie apocalypse hits.
Wow...that was pretty interesting...never heard of this guy before but he did have a vision....Personally, downsizing first of all is a good start...do we really need huge monster homes?... If only people would get rid of their big egos and status thinking...life can still be enjoyable with smaller living areas and less stuff....I went from a 4 bedroom home to a 1 bedroom apt...and I'm still finding it too big...lol🤣
depends tho do you have hobbies? and what are they? i mean i enjoy abit of woodworking as a hobby. gotta consider what people do to stay sane and enjoy life
3:07 Talks about American urban sprawl, but the footage seems to show a suburb with traffic driving on the left rather than the right. Where is this? (The footage isn't mirrored because "bus stop" reads correctly.)
I live off grid in an approximately 12 square metre space. I can confirm it's pretty small. Fine for someone who's a minimalist, otherwise you've got to put up lots of shelves and be comfortable with lots of mess. Luckily I'm comfortable with lots of mess!
I've always thought you could design a pretty interesting living, work, recreation, and commercial area inside an indoor football stadium. Same principle, build up not out, and you can have an entire air quality/HVAC controlled environment (with restrictions) and indoor eco areas, like malls used to be but taller with more open space.
I've been to Arcosanti several times, it is a beautiful place, but unfinished and anybody who has poured concrete can see that they didn't vibrate the wet concrete to settle out voids in the pour. The crane they used to lift the concrete sections is rusting in place, apparently broken. My buddy Moose visited and they wanted him to stay and fix things for them, but he had other plans. Arcosanti was a brilliant vision, but it's execution was as flawed as it's designer. The Arcosanti organization appears to be floundering somewhat, since their inspirational and charismatic autocrat passed away, it is rare that a social group successfully transitions from autocratic leadership to a committee lead structure. I think the good and hopeful folk of Arcosanti are wishing for another Paolo Soliari to return and inspire them, this may not happen, but I wish them well regardless. The soaring presence of the great concrete arches awes the beholder and the cozy rooms nestled into the canyon wall are reminiscent of the cliff dwellings of the Anazazi. You kinda have to go there and experience it.
I thoroughly agree with being able to walk everywhere, I could never live somewhere you need to drive everywhere, I walk everywhere as long as its under 10 miles, also I don't know how to drive lol
"...Archologies were cool, but I always had to use cheats to get them..." Ah! I salute anyone who found themselves typing "porntipsguzzardo" on their keyboard, anxious with expectation.
I wonder about things like crime. With a designed max population of 5,000, Arcosanti would always have a small town vibe. But, would it scale? Would gangs take them over since they could thrive in an acrology? Goes Arcosanti even have a jail or is it a fancy commune relying on community and good will?
The 6 fundamental design principals of Arcosanti. 1- Urban scale as human scale. 2- Food and energy nexus. 3- Marginalized consumption. 4- Urban effect. 5- Bounded density. 6- Elegant frugality. There are some good ideas but its a limited vision. For a much more advanced theory of design I would encourage the readers to look up Permaculture. The work of two Australian scientist, Prof. Bill Mollison, and Dr. David Holmgren.
in the vein of arcologies, i'd be intersted in an episode about the space program's attempts at virtual self sustaining moon or mars colonization. I believe there have been several
You mentioned that this development was in the Scottsdale area. Scottsdale is the Beverly Hills of Arizona and Phoenix metro has exploded with more and more developments. Towns that used to be hours away from Phoenix are now part of it. Just where is this place?
People keep saying this would be bad during the pandemic, but it seems like it actually would be a good thing? If everything is within walking distance (i.e. work, food, home, entertainment), and there's clear borders then there wouldn't be a need to leave. Just close the border and you've got a self sustaining closed off city. No one enters or leaves because they don't need to. At least in theory haha
Ok, we've got this experienced construction firm and master craftsman for the finished work. Solari: Nope, we're going to hire like-minded young people to build these homes whether they know what they are doing or not. Oh yeah, those homes are well built I'm sure.
In an environment that dry and stable, quality matters less. They built it all out of concrete (hard to mess up) and used earth or silt as formwork wherever they could.
Hey Mega Projects bro here's a video request: "The Thanjavur Brihadeeswarar Temple" Hope you read this comment and like it enough to make a video. Thanks ❤️ 🙏🏻
Love this - I'm always amazed that, given the scope of human imagination, we settled on the boxes in suburbia model of living If our ancestors could see us now, would they look on that as progress?
Thing that always gets me about these things is here in the West we keep trying these weird, expensive, 'hippy' projects and being like "look, this is the future of urbanisation and dense living" while totally ignoring the rest of the world. You want to see the future of cities go look at Seoul, Busan, Shanghai, Shenzhen - not some nutjob's art project in Arizona
I've lived in Arizona for much of my life, although not exactly close to Arcosanti, but I just had to laugh when you said 'far from hospitable' due to 'less than 40cm of rain per year' and summer temperatures 'reach 40c' .... 40 C is relatively low for our summers, it regularly gets to 45C mid-summer around here. And it's much closer to 10 cm of rain per year, at least in the part of Arizona I live.
Former Outback Australian here. About 90% of my entire continent is like that lol. I now live in Melbourne, one of the few places here that has this thing called “seasons” including a winter! I kind of like being in a part of Australia where there’s no crocodiles and where all the flies die from the cold and the snakes hibernate for a few months 👍
I thought this was gonna be a video on that guy who made the insane city Magnasanti in Simcity 4. His original video is still somewhere on the internet. I think he was a Filipino architect student.
Planned cities never work. The outcomes of organic growth is a function of a city adapting to its residents' needs. You cannot have it the other way around; people are rarely willing to be inconvenienced to further the end goals of a planned city.
I find it silly to build up past a certain height. Build down, in an area prone to earthquake yeah it's not a great idea, but in an area prone to tornado... It's a very good one, you can let the wind thrash and howl and it can push over the city with little to no damages. It's also far more defensible in the event of invasion's. You can't drop a nuke onto a city that's highest structure is 100 ft underground and expect it to do as much as hitting NYC (no threat it's the city I picked). You're water is realistically safe from attack, and if done well noone knows it's even there.
It's as simple as this: Wright recognized the vast true nature of the individual human spirit and wanted to elevate our experience of the world, and of each other. Soleri valued people as small, useful parts (tools) in a collective system, who must be managed, harnessed and regulated (ruled). One celebrated freedom and creative life, the other would have us chained in dogmatic servitude to a bleak, religious ideology. No wonder he failed.
A 60-mile drive to buy food? Why don't they have a shop with a lorry that brings weekly deliveries, it would actually be more beneficial for the environment as half of the population are not driving 120-miles to buy an Ice-Cream.
@@EAcapuccino It could, but it hasn't yet. When that grander scale eventually comes around, I'm willing to bet *that* place will be worth a megaprojects video, but this one? A pittance. Comparing the scale and the price of this place to the scale and price of your average megaproject, you can see that it's nowhere near being a megaproject.
Well what I was really getting at was it's design basis, given its hostile environment that could have served as an indirect nod to what could be done in hotter parts of the world come post 2050 with climate change? Again I'm Thinking about. More what it stands for rather than it itself, so after watching it I initially thought it could've been a megaproject... ➡️↩️
This is a great concept....until people act like people. I find more rude, biased, and unethical people in this world than I find peaceful, tactful, and open minded. Unfortunately I live in the United States and its become a country with so many divisions, its hard to know where you stand anymore.
has this guy talked about earth ships yet? similar in some ways to arcosanti in that they were started in the desert to provide sustainable and comfortable living. the community of earthships is in no way walkable to each other, as its very sprawled with dirt roads and no real commercial areas
While I'm REALLY skeptical about the climate change brewhaha I've been aware of this place for years, and think the concept is excellent. If developed properly not only would it help us to build livable communities and cities in places that are generally inhospitable here on Earth but would also help us to eventually build cities on the Moon, Mars and beyond.
you would need to pay me to make me live in such an isolated place lacking all the infrastucture and people. Im already SICK of living in 5k town with no real internet, no people no nothing other than booze and crack. A big city sucks as well but 100-150k citi is just ideal, too small to get traffic jams and all the other nasty things, big enough to give you all the infrastructure and places to go.
@@roberthayden5103 Walt designed it as his ideal city. It was suppose to house the staff but since the staff are all temps and have no ownership, it never felt like a real city to anyone.
It is sad that the founder never accepted the resources from commercial businesses and expert advice that could have sped up construction and Simon typical you never showed the completed model of the Arcosanti that inspires me when I saw a scale drawing of the project it is massive if it were completed as Solari's had envisioned
Why don't people ever build their dream urban utopias in places that are nice to live, with convenient rail and water connections that support commerce and industry? Why do these so-called visionaries never seem to realize that people need to make a living?
I originally heard about this project in Future Magazine in the 1970's (long gone now). After 40 years, I visited Arcosanti two years ago and to tell you the truth, it is dying. It is inhabited by a few hipsters who continue to cast the bronze bells, but nothing else appears to be going on. What is needed is someone with the drive and vision to raise funding to continue the project and bring it to fruition Good luck with that.
I have viewed many videos of Arcosanti, AZ and the main problem I see is that most people don't want to live there.
And that is due to people's inability to adapt. Most probably run screaming back into the urban sprawl because they can't handle isolation and confinement. Much like the off-grid dreamers that come and go from my community.
Lots of pie in the sky ideals that ignore human nature and what restricting the city limits will do to the cost of housing. Supply and demand? What's that? Enforced tasteful frugality because you can't afford not to be frugal.
@@michaelb1761 It will DROP the cost. Urban sprawl is the most nonsense, toxic, and destructive form of habitation known to us. Building arcologies, or even apartment towers, is infinitely cheaper, easier to maintain, and a far better use of land, alas, morons in USA see their idiotic mcmansions as a sign of ""success"" and refuse to wake up...
@@KuK137 Take some basic economics. Limiting supply raises prices. Why do you think the price of an apartment in big cities is so expensive? No idea I guess. Seriously take a basic beginner class in economics.
Every town within an hour's drive of Arcosanti has grown leaps and bounds in Arcosanti's lifespan. It may be neat but it isn't appealing to regular folks.
On the outskirts of town you will find the moisture farmers and currently under construction is a cantina, tentatively named Mos Eisley. Do be aware that traveling to this utopia can be dangerous as there are roving bands of raiders known as the Tusken tribe.
You win the internet today. Well played sir. Well played.
The natural environment one gets to explore is full of giant Gila Monsters and Giant Spiders as well. Also packs of coyote's, bands of half human half ape hybrids, and flying saucer abductions are frequent.
Man, I actually had to check to make sure that wasn’t an exact, word for word, excerpt from New Hope. My hat is off for you even putting the idea in my head that it could have been. Very well done indeed sir. Although the Star Wars reference is going to go right over Simons head because...well...he’s a weirdo and hasn’t seen a single Star Wars movie. But please don’t hate him. He knows not what he’s done.
Did you actually just use the T word? Dude, that is really fucking racist.
Tucson may be a wretched hive of scum and villainy, but it’s city, not a tribe. 😆
1:25 - Chapter 1 - A young visionary
3:00 - Chapter 2 - Arcology explained
7:00 - Chapter 3 - Construction begins in arcosanti
9:55 - Chapter 4 - Life at arcosanti
12:10 - Chapter 5 - A complicated legacy
I did Seminar Week back in 1995, and stayed there for an evening back in 2012. It's a pretty fascinating place - not necessarily workable, but feeling like you're living in a 70s sci-fi movie is pretty cool in and of itself.
Prescott and Prescott valley are less than an hour away and have groceries and Costco (and Amazon delivers), so the need to drive to Phoenix would be rare.
Most people would consider less than anhour still kind of far. The idea was to have a grocery store in walking distance.
@@Hollylivengood Good point.
Pragmatically, if you scale up the model, the best you can have walking distance in every neighborhood is a general-store equivalent like a 7-11 or CVS. In the modern world, Amazon delivery is the most feasible way to avoid having to drive miles to a store that has everything you need.
i thought the idea was to grow locally. they could grow all there greens and vegetables on site. chickens for eggs and meat. having to drive regularly to the grocery store defeats the purpose of frugal living. besides, what are the peeps living there doing all day long anyways. Also, contracting with a commercial food supplier would be cheaper than peeps going out and buying groceries at retail prices.
@@bocadelcieloplaya3852 Good question. The more I read, the more I think you have to be a cult member to try to live there.
Where I grew up in the early 1980s was a laughing stock with its concrete cows and roundabouts, but I think it did quite well at achieving its urban planning objectives. Milton Keynes. A brand new town at the time. The schools were really modern with lots of facilities like leisure centers and after school there was lots to do in the area. As kids we were always on the go doing stuff outdoors. Business parks meant jobs and we had the big shopping center too. They planted millions of trees, so MK is now one of the greenest urban centers in Europe and the UK. MK has grown and done quite well for itself. It also borrowed a football team and never gave it back. Wimbledon FC. Making good use of the things that we find I guess.
That Sim City 2000 reference tho. A man after my heart.
Simon Whistler now officially owns my UA-cam algorithm.
You only have to watch one video and then he takes over your recommendations. The only way to stop it is to watch all of them but that could take a lifetime.
@@joycejames8461 This is the solution I recommend. Please proceed everyone. Thank you.
@@Sideprojects I've been working my way through all the Simon-related content for MONTHS now and there's still no end in sight. Thankfully.
i like these arcology projects how people basically trying to make self sustainable environment and possibly concept for space colonization
The only way any community can be self sustaining is at subsistence level because they lose the overwhelming benefits of trade, specialisation and innovation.
You climate nutjobs can become self sustaining if you'd like. But no phone or WiFi for you and 16 hours physical labour a day, every day. You wouldn't last a week hypocrite
Do you believe in climate change?
@@darkjudge8786 it is funny how they like to say how wonderful it would be but not one in a thousand want to give up any of the comforts and ease of modern living! They have been sold a fantasy...
As an AZ resident, I’ve passed by many times but never visited. It’s a really fascinating and interesting concept, regardless of the person the creator was.
you should visit, it is amazing. been there a couple of times
hot damn whistler ! relevant ! to say the least .... to me anyway ...nice departure from the other videos i have seen of yours
..all good , i might add . variety iz truly the spice of life whistler ...ya'll have a good one ...and until next time .... carry-on , peAce , davis
I live in AZ and went there twice with a decade in between... not a brick had changed and nothing noticeable had progressed in any way. Just an expensive restaurant and t-shirt shop for hippies.
Something that might be a great side project video (prob not enough for a mega project) would be all the physical and technical effects that Industrial Lights and Magic have done over the years. Definitely a leader in the film effects industrty
Things that Soleri got right were his selection of materials suitable for the environment. Of particular interest to me was the earth and/or silt he advocated for concrete formwork which allowed Arcosanti to achieve it's unique physical shapes and aesthetics. The silt casting process makes for highly sustainable formwork, and was an important idea worth mentioning in the video.
When I was an architecture student in the early 1980’s, I had opportunity to do one of the five-week workshops there, but never did it. It has just been in the last couple years I have become interested in Arcosanti. Back in early 2022, I was coming back from a trip from Colorado to California, and after leaving Flagstaff AZ, we stopped at Arcosanti and did one of the tours. It is a fascinating place, and I would love to spend a weekend there to explore it on my own terms. The old architecture school started by Frank Lloyd Wright at Taliesin West has been relocated to Arcosanti as The School of Architecture that offers a Master of Architecture degree to students interested in Wrights Philosophies.
At the very beginning, when he started a story, I thought " wait is this another story? is danny writing this?"
DAAANNNYYY
I was there about 10 years ago to see the bell foundry. It was...strange.
Which building houses the community microwave oven?
LOL
during summer time...it's outside here in AZ land. Winter, not sure.
It's next to the pot growing shed.
I've been to Arcosanti. I was bemused during the tour by a gentlemen (I use the term loosely) who insisted on getting combative with the tour guide. He was deeply offended that living in an arcology would require a change of lifestyle. The reduction of personal space, the lack of room for "things," and the absence of common status symbols (like a garage for his expensive car, which apparently, along with his fake Rolex, underpinned much of his ego) were all inexcusable shortcomings.
Paolo Soleri did have an eye for the "big picture." However, I have read, and my visit to Arcosanti showed, that he was not good at the details. This shortcoming seems to be one contributor to the project's tepid reception. His reported acerbic ways apparently precluded an effective second team to fill in the blanks that he left. I would love to hear the views of actual Arcosanti residents on these points.
I first learned of Paolo Soleri in a large-format magazine ("Life" I believe) in the late 1960's. The magazine did a major article on cities of the future. His vision caught my attention then and I have followed it since.
For people interested in designing welcoming living spaces for people, I recommend the book "A Pattern Language." In my opinion, Mr. Soleri could have benefited from reading it. I've just started on "A New Pattern Language for Growing Regions." This title seems more focused on areas that would be dear to Paolo's soul, and supplements the first (much older but still very relevant) title.
It is a lot more intelligent to have a fake Rolex than a massively overpriced real Rolex.
@@ziggy2shus624 Why? A real Rolex could be sold. A fake would just be thrown out. If you want a nice looking watch that's reasonably priced by a Vincero watch.
Things that Soleri got right were his selection of materials suitable for the environment. Of particular interest to me was the earth and/or silt he advocated for concrete formwork which allowed Arcosanti to achieve it's unique physical shapes and aesthetics.
I will go read A New Pattern Language for Growing Regions- thank you for recommending it.
A Pattern Language was required reading in most Architecture Schools...it was when I studied in mid 80’s. Profs found it the go to book but personally I found it impractical in many ways...perhaps Soleri’s project also lacked in-depth reality since casting bells to support may not be financially feasible & living so closely doesn’t really work...the communal eating area reminds me of my high school cafeteria. Anyways, like to spend a couple of weeks there, but like a cruise liner, I’d probably go bananas after the first day.
@@jmcassonetto "A Pattern Language" seems to inspire either admiration or avoidance. I know individuals who have used it to change their own living spaces and loved the result. I've listened to contractors using salty words because a customer wanted to apply some of the book's principles.
The book has many elements of individualism and non-uniformity. As such it is disliked by people who love HOA's (If you are a regimented type who thinks that the only proper house color is taupe, no street parking should be allowed, and garage doors should never be open for more than fifteen minutes, you should stop reading now). It is also impractical for people, like housing development contractors, who keep their profit margins up by stamping out a limited range of designs. The book is focused more on living environments that people fundamentally like to dwell in. This difference between long-term dwelling and short term profit is generally resolved by the nearsighted.
I was interested to learn awhile back that the Duke of Cornwall, Prince Charles, has used principles from The Pattern Language in housing developments within Cornwall. I found this out after reading an article from a British paper that said that, according to people living there, the Prince "got it right." Given he is not the most popular person in The Isles, I found this public judgement to be atypical and went digging to learn the source of his inspiration. From this story I conclude that, while changing one's thinking is required, implementing at least some of The Pattern Language principles is reasonably done.
I do agree there are implementation problems. I am not in full agreement with the construction methods espoused in the companion book, "The Timeless Way of Building," especially not in earthquake-prone zones. "The Oregon Experiment" indirectly exposed both the need to obtain, and the difficulty of obtaining full engagement of participants. No philosophy is perfect. However, the messages in "The Pattern Language" are worthy of serious consideration.
Frank Loyd Wright would be a good person to do a video about on your other channel Biographics.
Agreed
Nutcase Wright built homes for the very wealthy, not for average people.
So, he put a lot of excess items into his home designs that could never be done in homes for the masses.
Locals in the Prescott, Arizona area have seen Arcosanti as a total joke for decades.
Prescott, Az is an urban sprawl town about 30 miles away that people like, and it has a population of about 50,000.
The people hate Acrosanti, which is why no one lives there.
Arcosanti is basically a tourist trap, which scams money off of dreams rather than reality.
Arizonian here: ~30 mins from my house, I've been there, it's....interesting yet not glamorous, amazing or thrilling. Their project has never panned out per a large residency. It has more of a hippy, older build kinda feel, it doesn't feel like a futuristic complex. I will say it suffers from feeling very sterile, dull and dead, it could benefit having hundreds of plants, tress, and natural shade. It's feels more 1960's military bunker than a community and or home.
I only first heard of Arcosonti when Puscifer performed their new album there last year.
Was wondering whether I might find any puscifer references in the comments :)
We used to drive past this place each time we came and went between the Verde Valley and Phoenix. We knew a bit about it, but this fills in the gaps. Good luck to those hardy souls/nutballs who attempt this experiment in living.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject . I truly hope that we wake up and start spreading around and leave farm land in between city's or better yet towns like earlier years so food cost would stay reasonable
Holy crap! A Sunday upload! Thanks Simon!
Close proximity to other people? Well, that idea went out the window in 2020.
Convrrsely, smaller self-sustaining communities would be easier to quarantine quickly, thereby significantly reducing the spread of viruses.
I think it went in the window, actually, then got locked in... 🤪
I am not surprised that the current population of Arcosanti has stabilized at 200.
This is the default size of a human familial tribe (see Dunbar's Number).
This default limit is rarely considered, but remains foundational when designing for human habitation and social organization.
Unlike apes and our other social mamalian relatives, humans have the capacity for an extra layer of tribal behavior. The associative tribe forms-up on the foundation of the familial tribes and provides inclusion such that a single person may become an associate of many associative tribes. This provides many advantages for the familial tribes and individuals if the default emergent structure is recognized and respected.
So in the case of Arcosanti, it would have done a lot better if the architect had designed a series of inter-related, but well-defined physical spaces for separate familial tribes up to a maximum of 200. Such a structure would support a networked series of natural human tribes with the infrastructure to enable the associative layer in a mutually supportive functions.
Expansion in increments of 200 would become easy to accommodate, both vertically and horizontaly.
Attention to tribal identity would be paramount, with each familial tribe maintaining a well published totem describing its inputs, outputs and functional processes - both physical and cultural. With such well defined totemic identity, the progress and function of associative networks would emerge as needs and circumstances of the arcology evolve - based on totemic commonalities.
I observe that humanity tends to suffer when it strays from it's inherent nature. Modern society has strayed so far that it has departed reality in fundamental ways.
If humanity continues to deny its basic nature, it will eventually decline until those truths are rediscovered.
It would be a tragedy if all of that was simply left to chance given our opportunity to see the truth and simply admit it.
Even though I'm not an architect I do have some passion for how optimal urban living could look like.
My own vision is more of a walled city like a huge rectangular mall and everything you need is within the building with a electric train track across the middle on the long side so you don't have to walk very far and smaller transport pods on the short side to get closer to your destination from the middle. With a huge park on the roof, and around the walled city there would be farmland which is trickier to do very space efficiently.
However this video gave me two main ideas to add to it such as reducing the travel time to and from work to almost zero by being an elevator ride from where they work in most cases by having residential floors and letting people live right under or above their workplace.
Another interesting idea would be to minimize personal area and possessions to the minimum people can live comfortably with. While splurging much more on common areas and amenities to be both luxurious but also quite sustainable.
Like do every person need one of everything even though they only use it sometimes? No, so instead of everyone having a pool you could have let's say a x15 as awesome pool/waterpark but shared across 30 families. I think that would result in a positive in life quality for most people while only having half the economic/ecological impact.
But you could also do that with things we aren't necessarily used to share in today's society instead of making so many of each thing for every household just because we want it for ourselves even though it's incredibly wasteful.
But yeah other than stuff personal spaces don't need to be large if they're only thought of as spaces reserved for things you would really like to be alone doing and instead share upscale versions of everything else that you can efficiently share with others without feeling like you would benefit from having your very own.
Man... It's unfortunate that it's pretty much impossible to realize something like this without being given absolute power over a country or something lol.
Like a benevolent dictator atleast for a while, however it seems very hard for people in those positions to find motivation to do things with good intentions.
So it will probably never happen.
Been to Cosanti and Arcosanti. They are different but uniquely similar and both weirdly beautiful.
My favorite iteration of an arcology is in the SF book "Oath Of Fealty" by Niven and Pournelle.
Been here twice, Paolo Solarie is a genius.
So in short, Arcosanti tries to be a modern/futuristic take on the Kowloon walled city.
Another interesting place that’s built on the principles of sustainability and self reliance is Emandal, a community in Northern California that has history going back several decades.
Note : 12:25 - residents don't have to drive 100 mi to PHX for groceries. Cottonwood and Sedona are just around the corner (well, at least 40 miles around the corner).
The place is basically a fancy looking hippie commune, so not worth visiting unless you are a fan of random architecture. A true arcology building/complex is still decades away from being realized anywhere in the world, but the concept will probably gain more traction down the road after the zombie apocalypse hits.
Once again Simon casually reminds us of our impending doom at the end, thank you simon
When you were discussing Poleri's sexual abuse incidents you showed a clip of Frank Lloyd Wright walking. I didn't like that.
Lol isn't he a Pedro file?
Wow...that was pretty interesting...never heard of this guy before but he did have a vision....Personally, downsizing first of all is a good start...do we really need huge monster homes?... If only people would get rid of their big egos and status thinking...life can still be enjoyable with smaller living areas and less stuff....I went from a 4 bedroom home to a 1 bedroom apt...and I'm still finding it too big...lol🤣
depends tho do you have hobbies? and what are they? i mean i enjoy abit of woodworking as a hobby. gotta consider what people do to stay sane and enjoy life
There is an outdoor amphitheater in Santa Fe, NM, that is quite wonderful. It is the Paolo Soleri amphitheater.
3:07 Talks about American urban sprawl, but the footage seems to show a suburb with traffic driving on the left rather than the right. Where is this?
(The footage isn't mirrored because "bus stop" reads correctly.)
I live off grid in an approximately 12 square metre space. I can confirm it's pretty small. Fine for someone who's a minimalist, otherwise you've got to put up lots of shelves and be comfortable with lots of mess. Luckily I'm comfortable with lots of mess!
Ahh I miss simcity, I could spend days on it
"high quality bronze bells"
*Proceeds to show the lowest quality bronzework I've ever seen*
I've always thought you could design a pretty interesting living, work, recreation, and commercial area inside an indoor football stadium. Same principle, build up not out, and you can have an entire air quality/HVAC controlled environment (with restrictions) and indoor eco areas, like malls used to be but taller with more open space.
I've been to Arcosanti several times, it is a beautiful place, but unfinished and anybody who has poured concrete can see that they didn't vibrate the wet concrete to settle out voids in the pour. The crane they used to lift the concrete sections is rusting in place, apparently broken. My buddy Moose visited and they wanted him to stay and fix things for them, but he had other plans.
Arcosanti was a brilliant vision, but it's execution was as flawed as it's designer. The Arcosanti organization appears to be floundering somewhat, since their inspirational and charismatic autocrat passed away, it is rare that a social group successfully transitions from autocratic leadership to a committee lead structure. I think the good and hopeful folk of Arcosanti are wishing for another Paolo Soliari to return and inspire them, this may not happen, but I wish them well regardless. The soaring presence of the great concrete arches awes the beholder and the cozy rooms nestled into the canyon wall are reminiscent of the cliff dwellings of the Anazazi.
You kinda have to go there and experience it.
The concrete may have air pockets, but by God his daughter doesn't.
This seems like the last place one would want to be in 2020/21, unless they are perfectly isolated...
As a longtime Arizona resident, this is about as 'perfectly isolated' as it gets.
I thoroughly agree with being able to walk everywhere, I could never live somewhere you need to drive everywhere, I walk everywhere as long as its under 10 miles, also I don't know how to drive lol
"...Archologies were cool, but I always had to use cheats to get them..."
Ah! I salute anyone who found themselves typing "porntipsguzzardo" on their keyboard, anxious with expectation.
I keep missing these videos because the thumbnail style looks like a advertisement to me so I just scan over them XD
I wonder about things like crime. With a designed max population of 5,000, Arcosanti would always have a small town vibe. But, would it scale? Would gangs take them over since they could thrive in an acrology? Goes Arcosanti even have a jail or is it a fancy commune relying on community and good will?
Pretty much goodwill. You have to want to be there and if you break the rules enough times, they throw you out.
I was just about to make a recommendation for an Arcosanti video. Glad I checked first.
The 6 fundamental design principals of Arcosanti.
1- Urban scale as human scale.
2- Food and energy nexus.
3- Marginalized consumption.
4- Urban effect.
5- Bounded density.
6- Elegant frugality.
There are some good ideas but its a limited vision. For a much more advanced theory of design I would encourage the readers to look up Permaculture. The work of two Australian scientist, Prof. Bill Mollison, and Dr. David Holmgren.
Seen so many of these Utopia architecture fail in the real world, the idea that architecture can change people's behavior is flawed.
in the vein of arcologies, i'd be intersted in an episode about the space program's attempts at virtual self sustaining moon or mars colonization. I believe there have been several
You mentioned that this development was in the Scottsdale area. Scottsdale is the Beverly Hills of Arizona and Phoenix metro has exploded with more and more developments. Towns that used to be hours away from Phoenix are now part of it. Just where is this place?
People keep saying this would be bad during the pandemic, but it seems like it actually would be a good thing? If everything is within walking distance (i.e. work, food, home, entertainment), and there's clear borders then there wouldn't be a need to leave. Just close the border and you've got a self sustaining closed off city. No one enters or leaves because they don't need to. At least in theory haha
Ok, we've got this experienced construction firm and master craftsman for the finished work.
Solari: Nope, we're going to hire like-minded young people to build these homes whether they know what they are doing or not.
Oh yeah, those homes are well built I'm sure.
In an environment that dry and stable, quality matters less. They built it all out of concrete (hard to mess up) and used earth or silt as formwork wherever they could.
Hey Mega Projects bro here's a video request:
"The Thanjavur Brihadeeswarar Temple"
Hope you read this comment and like it enough to make a video. Thanks ❤️ 🙏🏻
Love this - I'm always amazed that, given the scope of human imagination, we settled on the boxes in suburbia model of living
If our ancestors could see us now, would they look on that as progress?
Thing that always gets me about these things is here in the West we keep trying these weird, expensive, 'hippy' projects and being like "look, this is the future of urbanisation and dense living" while totally ignoring the rest of the world. You want to see the future of cities go look at Seoul, Busan, Shanghai, Shenzhen - not some nutjob's art project in Arizona
I've lived in Arizona for much of my life, although not exactly close to Arcosanti, but I just had to laugh when you said 'far from hospitable' due to 'less than 40cm of rain per year' and summer temperatures 'reach 40c' .... 40 C is relatively low for our summers, it regularly gets to 45C mid-summer around here. And it's much closer to 10 cm of rain per year, at least in the part of Arizona I live.
Former Outback Australian here. About 90% of my entire continent is like that lol. I now live in Melbourne, one of the few places here that has this thing called “seasons” including a winter! I kind of like being in a part of Australia where there’s no crocodiles and where all the flies die from the cold and the snakes hibernate for a few months 👍
I thought this was gonna be a video on that guy who made the insane city Magnasanti in Simcity 4. His original video is still somewhere on the internet. I think he was a Filipino architect student.
I was hoping it'd be about that too... If I remember one of the cities he made before Magnasanti was called Arcosanti
I bought a bell there once on a road trip. My sketchy hippie roommate stole it when he dipped out without paying the rent.
When I went to Merritt high school I had a friend who used to live there
In 2008
I cant imagine living in a 6sq meter space smaller than my study...
Who else still remembers those Sim City 2000 cheat codes! I am weak was the code for a boatload of cash I think
It would suck if you hate your neighbors!🤣
Planned cities never work. The outcomes of organic growth is a function of a city adapting to its residents' needs. You cannot have it the other way around; people are rarely willing to be inconvenienced to further the end goals of a planned city.
If you're interested in Arcosanti you might also be interested in The Venus Project. It's similar but different.
I find it silly to build up past a certain height. Build down, in an area prone to earthquake yeah it's not a great idea, but in an area prone to tornado... It's a very good one, you can let the wind thrash and howl and it can push over the city with little to no damages. It's also far more defensible in the event of invasion's. You can't drop a nuke onto a city that's highest structure is 100 ft underground and expect it to do as much as hitting NYC (no threat it's the city I picked). You're water is realistically safe from attack, and if done well noone knows it's even there.
It's as simple as this: Wright recognized the vast true nature of the individual human spirit and wanted to elevate our experience of the world, and of each other. Soleri valued people as small, useful parts (tools) in a collective system, who must be managed, harnessed and regulated (ruled). One celebrated freedom and creative life, the other would have us chained in dogmatic servitude to a bleak, religious ideology. No wonder he failed.
A 60-mile drive to buy food? Why don't they have a shop with a lorry that brings weekly deliveries, it would actually be more beneficial for the environment as half of the population are not driving 120-miles to buy an Ice-Cream.
Prisons have high density housing
Interesting. Thought provoking. Attaboy Simon.
Why wasn't this on megaprojects? Sounds like a revolutionary design principle for cities even if it was the 20th century
It’s about the size of a small strip mall
Yet It could lay foundations for future designs on a grander scale
Singapore is 1 such example
@@EAcapuccino It could, but it hasn't yet. When that grander scale eventually comes around, I'm willing to bet *that* place will be worth a megaprojects video, but this one? A pittance. Comparing the scale and the price of this place to the scale and price of your average megaproject, you can see that it's nowhere near being a megaproject.
Well what I was really getting at was it's design basis, given its hostile environment that could have served as an indirect nod to what could be done in hotter parts of the world come post 2050 with climate change?
Again I'm Thinking about. More what it stands for rather than it itself, so after watching it I initially thought it could've been a megaproject... ➡️↩️
This is a great concept....until people act like people. I find more rude, biased, and unethical people in this world than I find peaceful, tactful, and open minded.
Unfortunately I live in the United States and its become a country with so many divisions, its hard to know where you stand anymore.
has this guy talked about earth ships yet? similar in some ways to arcosanti in that they were started in the desert to provide sustainable and comfortable living. the community of earthships is in no way walkable to each other, as its very sprawled with dirt roads and no real commercial areas
Its pronounced awah free-ah, cold water in Spanish ..agooa lol =p
Well, that explains the pronunciation in Big Iron.
Love Whistler's stuff but his pronunciations can be really hard on the ears.
i first visited in 1980, few times and last with wife and lil son. '97
While I'm REALLY skeptical about the climate change brewhaha I've been aware of this place for years, and think the concept is excellent. If developed properly not only would it help us to build livable communities and cities in places that are generally inhospitable here on Earth but would also help us to eventually build cities on the Moon, Mars and beyond.
Good video 👍
Ah.. SimCity. Brings back memories of SC2000 on Playstation
6 square meters, no Americans say "What the frack is a 'meter' "?
is it similar to a "metre"?
Great for pandemics...
That will never happen
Woops
Nailed it lol
you would need to pay me to make me live in such an isolated place lacking all the infrastucture and people. Im already SICK of living in 5k town with no real internet, no people no nothing other than booze and crack. A big city sucks as well but 100-150k citi is just ideal, too small to get traffic jams and all the other nasty things, big enough to give you all the infrastructure and places to go.
Do a video of The American Eagle rollercoaster at Six Flags Great America a landmark along the freeway I94
I'm an indivualist and would not like this much control.
Thumbs up for referencing Archology from SimCity 2000!!!!
Thanks for doing this, I have always wanted to get down there. Maybe you should do a series on utopias realized. Epcot comes to mind.
OK, I'll bite. How is Epcot anything other than a amusement park attraction?
@@roberthayden5103 Walt designed it as his ideal city. It was suppose to house the staff but since the staff are all temps and have no ownership, it never felt like a real city to anyone.
It is sad that the founder never accepted the resources from commercial businesses and expert advice that could have sped up construction and Simon typical you never showed the completed model of the Arcosanti that inspires me when I saw a scale drawing of the project it is massive if it were completed as Solari's had envisioned
One does not "build' bells in foundry. Bells are cast. i thought even bell ends knew that!:-) 🖖
Ty.
Simon does videos on Saturday too? How did he have time to mate and have a kid? I guess that's on Sundays?
Simon, The New Tappan Zee Bridge, please
Arcology sounds like hell for introverts.
Going like soviet union,square gray concrete
I'm older than Simon, yet, I cannot grow such a manly beard.
Well you probably don't have Robin Williams levels of arm and chest hair either.
@@nutbastard Definitely not. Probably will win the race to ear and nose hair though :-)
Why don't people ever build their dream urban utopias in places that are nice to live, with convenient rail and water connections that support commerce and industry? Why do these so-called visionaries never seem to realize that people need to make a living?