West system may not mention this, but white vinegar removes their epoxy products like a champ! Drips, run offs, brushes and rollers. And especially great to clean your hands with after a glove failure. White vinegar, it's not just for cooking!!!
We didn't realise that vinegar worked for this. We have a bunch of bottles aboard for cleaning and soaking the heads, so we'll have to try this next time we're working with epoxy. Thanks for the tip! -M
Would be interested in knowjng/seeing the inside of the hull. It is VERY important that the inside and outside mountings through the hull are absolutely square and tight to each other. Any flex or wiggle will shear the bolts. Had that happen on a friend’s Hydrovane on a Pacific crossing recently. It was due to the “professional” installer using flexible caulking to bed the backing plates so they better matched the hull angle. Mounting bolts flexed minutely until they finally fatigued and snapped after a week at sea.
Wow. Thanks for sharing that. I'll make absolutely sure that there's no flex. I'll probably add a lot more fiberglass on the inside of the hull so that the backing plate is completely flush.
This project started in Scotland (the unboxing video), and continued at anchor in Denmark, and now we're still working on it anchored in a remote fjord in Norway... I think we might be finishing it in Shetland or Orkney... I hope.. :)
just an idea that might help next time you need to match angles. try making the cardboard mold first w both sides flat. tape it to the transom. and then use something like a music cd (round w a hole in the middle. than scribe the hull curvature onto the cardboard mold w a pen in the middle of the cd as you move the pen/cd across the transom. probably would have saved you fr making the fiberglass mold of the transom.
That would have been great. I would have done it had I thought of it. I was worried that I was going to get stuck hanging way over the rail and not able to get back up, or that I would slip and fall overboard myself. =8O
Hydrovane’s don’t have to be mounted directly on the Center line. Did you consider mounting it 8” to 12 “ off Center, would that simplify the installation , and the need to fabricate that ‘saddle’ piece?
That makes Drake's brain hurt. Installation must be even and centered and aesthetically pleasing or he'll 😳😫🤯. We also can't put it to either side because then it would be too close to the radar arch. We've shared our our boat specs and installation plans with Hydrovane and they approved them, so hopefully everything goes well. -M
There are many ways to make that block. Could use clay for make the plug then make a mold. Same thing with Styrofoam--tape 40 grit to the hull and abrade the Styrofoam to fit. Also you can just use that cellophane tape on the boat or the card board, and dont need to add the plastic. Epoxy wont stick to the tape. I do like your way though. Just maybe a bit less rough. You will have lots of grinding to do. But, I think you are doing well. If in shaping you get too skinny, or take off too much, just add more glass. It will work out!
I never thought of that, and I don't now of that ever being done. Usually they make the brackets out of teak or starboard, but I wanted to use fiberglass because we had to make ours unusually large so that the vane wouldn't hit the radar arch. I imagine that hiring a professional welder to fabricate the custom part would have cost a lot more than me doing it myself out of fiberglass. And I also wanted to get the job done sooner, and we won't be near any welding shops for the rest of the summer/fall as we are in voyaging mode.
Not so sure I would be using fiberglass in this application. It would seem to me there is a lot of forces being transmitted from the steering vane to the stern of the boat and they are all going to transition through the spacer. Fiberglass will under compressive, tensile, or alternate cyclic loading, fatigue fail. If it were me I would be getting the part fabricated from metal.
@@superwag634 This isn't really fiberglass, is it? Seems like its a chunk of brittle epoxy with some heavily saturated matting in it, for fiberglass to get its proper strength it needs a high cloth to resin ratio, there is a reason almost all high quality fiberglass is made with vacuum infusion nowadays. Seems to me like teak or some hardwood is a way better solution, or some kind of small stainless bracket bolted to the hull.
@@superwag634 Not according to this study. "Three cumulative damage models are examined for the case of cyclic loading of AISI 6150 steel, S2 glass fibre/epoxy and E glass fibre/epoxy composites. The Palmgren-Miner, Broutman-Sahu and Hashin-Rotem models are compared to determine which of the three gives the most accurate estimation of the fatigue life of the materials tested. In addition, comparison of the fatigue life of the materials shows the superiority of AISI 6150 steel and S2 glass fibre/epoxy at lower mean stresses, and that of steel to the composites at higher mean stresses."
@@DuffyF56 great, you pulled some semi relevant information from the inter webs. The stress in that plug he made will be minuscule. The hull will fail from keel forces before the wind vane mount ever does. Stresses from a wind vane are not large by the way. I’ve had one on my yacht for over a decade with nowhere the size of mount and I sail southern ocean waters as my backyard. Think there is even a video of my wind vane
@@superwag634 There are multiple studies that indicate that composites don't do that well in compressive stress. But hey...you're the all knowing person that said they were better than metal when they aren't.
West system may not mention this, but white vinegar removes their epoxy products like a champ! Drips, run offs, brushes and rollers. And especially great to clean your hands with after a glove failure. White vinegar, it's not just for cooking!!!
We didn't realise that vinegar worked for this. We have a bunch of bottles aboard for cleaning and soaking the heads, so we'll have to try this next time we're working with epoxy. Thanks for the tip! -M
Would be interested in knowjng/seeing the inside of the hull. It is VERY important that the inside and outside mountings through the hull are absolutely square and tight to each other. Any flex or wiggle will shear the bolts. Had that happen on a friend’s Hydrovane on a Pacific crossing recently. It was due to the “professional” installer using flexible caulking to bed the backing plates so they better matched the hull angle. Mounting bolts flexed minutely until they finally fatigued and snapped after a week at sea.
Wow. Thanks for sharing that. I'll make absolutely sure that there's no flex. I'll probably add a lot more fiberglass on the inside of the hull so that the backing plate is completely flush.
Drake I think you need to call Mads for pointers on this one! In the spirit of Denmark (even if he's not there).
How was it, cruising life is all about doing boat jobs in exotic places? Well, Denmark might not be that exotic... 😄
This project started in Scotland (the unboxing video), and continued at anchor in Denmark, and now we're still working on it anchored in a remote fjord in Norway... I think we might be finishing it in Shetland or Orkney... I hope.. :)
@@drakeParagon 😄
just an idea that might help next time you need to match angles. try making the cardboard mold first w both sides flat. tape it to the transom. and then use something like a music cd (round w a hole in the middle. than scribe the hull curvature onto the cardboard mold w a pen in the middle of the cd as you move the pen/cd across the transom. probably would have saved you fr making the fiberglass mold of the transom.
OMG, that was so stressful, I was sure you were going to drop it in the water, I so wanted you to screw a hook into the top of it, and tie it on.
That would have been great. I would have done it had I thought of it. I was worried that I was going to get stuck hanging way over the rail and not able to get back up, or that I would slip and fall overboard myself. =8O
Hydrovane’s don’t have to be mounted directly on the Center line.
Did you consider mounting it 8” to 12 “ off Center, would that simplify the installation , and the need to fabricate that ‘saddle’ piece?
That makes Drake's brain hurt. Installation must be even and centered and aesthetically pleasing or he'll 😳😫🤯. We also can't put it to either side because then it would be too close to the radar arch. We've shared our our boat specs and installation plans with Hydrovane and they approved them, so hopefully everything goes well. -M
Vinegar works best for uncured epoxy cleanup btw
Did not know this. We've always used white spirits, but I'll try vinegar next time. Thanks for the tip! -M
There are many ways to make that block. Could use clay for make the plug then make a mold. Same thing with Styrofoam--tape 40 grit to the hull and abrade the Styrofoam to fit. Also you can just use that cellophane tape on the boat or the card board, and dont need to add the plastic. Epoxy wont stick to the tape. I do like your way though. Just maybe a bit less rough. You will have lots of grinding to do. But, I think you are doing well. If in shaping you get too skinny, or take off too much, just add more glass. It will work out!
Seems like you could DIY this using the old wind vane supports just my 2 cents
never thought of modifying the entire Aries mount to mount the Hydrovane upper bracket... wow.. oh well...
👍
(✿◠‿◠)
You should reach out to Madds, he has to be the fiberglass expert. And he might be close!
I said the same thing and 2nd this comment.
Wow..lol
Wow indeed. 😊
That looks like a sushi roll…… ;P
Ha, it kind of does. 🍣🍣 FORBIDDEN SUSHI! 🍣🍣 -M 😆🤣
Probably should’ve had that bracket made out of stainless steel
I never thought of that, and I don't now of that ever being done. Usually they make the brackets out of teak or starboard, but I wanted to use fiberglass because we had to make ours unusually large so that the vane wouldn't hit the radar arch. I imagine that hiring a professional welder to fabricate the custom part would have cost a lot more than me doing it myself out of fiberglass. And I also wanted to get the job done sooner, and we won't be near any welding shops for the rest of the summer/fall as we are in voyaging mode.
Buy a cheap angle grinder to make easier work out of that before final hand sanding.
I'm not sure Drake needs a reason to buy another power tool, but you've just given him one. 🙂 -M
Hmmmm.
Things that make ya go...
Not so sure I would be using fiberglass in this application. It would seem to me there is a lot of forces being transmitted from the steering vane to the stern of the boat and they are all going to transition through the spacer. Fiberglass will under compressive, tensile, or alternate cyclic loading, fatigue fail. If it were me I would be getting the part fabricated from metal.
Fibreglass is far more resistant to fatigue than metal if applied stresses are equivalent
@@superwag634 This isn't really fiberglass, is it? Seems like its a chunk of brittle epoxy with some heavily saturated matting in it, for fiberglass to get its proper strength it needs a high cloth to resin ratio, there is a reason almost all high quality fiberglass is made with vacuum infusion nowadays.
Seems to me like teak or some hardwood is a way better solution, or some kind of small stainless bracket bolted to the hull.
@@superwag634 Not according to this study. "Three cumulative damage models are examined for the case of cyclic loading of AISI 6150 steel, S2 glass fibre/epoxy and E glass fibre/epoxy composites. The Palmgren-Miner, Broutman-Sahu and Hashin-Rotem models are compared to determine which of the three gives the most accurate estimation of the fatigue life of the materials tested. In addition, comparison of the fatigue life of the materials shows the superiority of AISI 6150 steel and S2 glass fibre/epoxy at lower mean stresses, and that of steel to the composites at higher mean stresses."
@@DuffyF56 great, you pulled some semi relevant information from the inter webs. The stress in that plug he made will be minuscule. The hull will fail from keel forces before the wind vane mount ever does. Stresses from a wind vane are not large by the way. I’ve had one on my yacht for over a decade with nowhere the size of mount and I sail southern ocean waters as my backyard. Think there is even a video of my wind vane
@@superwag634 There are multiple studies that indicate that composites don't do that well in compressive stress. But hey...you're the all knowing person that said they were better than metal when they aren't.
You don’t look too happy with the outcome
we're not done yet. :)
Reach out to Andy at boatworkstoday, he's a better person to talk to than mads (no offense to mads)
yea Andy has always helped me I would got to him as well