I think it’s possible to applaud the brilliant tree of Andy Reid and his ability to pass on knowledge and also praise Belichek for getting the most out of some real morons.
isn’t crazy though that nobody on coaching except has had success as a head coach i don’t ever happened other then with bill. i wonder if it’s a control thing.
My happiest day as a football fan was when DeMeco Ryans was hired as Texans' coach, signalling the end of the McNairs' obsession with turning the Texans into Patriots South. Becoming 49ers South is going to be a huge improvement.
@ConnorO74 You do realize, the browns were in the afc championship in 1986, 1987, and 1989, and Bill Belichick became browns coach in 1991, don't you???? Also, even if the browns were such a bad franchise, which they clearly weren't, don't you think St. Belichick would've turned the team around???
He brought Thom in from the local Kroger where he was stockin' shelves full of boxed mashed potatoes and boxed dry spaghetti. Thom would be, right now son, dead or tied up for gRape in some dude's basement if not for Bill Buildachuck. So show a little respect boy. Talk right about the man yo.
@@ConnorO74The iteration of the browns that belichick ran became the ravens, the modern day browns are something different entirely and poorly ran. Belichick at the very least had a decent infrastructure with the browns at the time.
There's a lot of well-deserved schadenfreude on this list, but let's take a moment to give some love to Romeo Crennel. The guy saw one of his best players take his own life after murdering his girlfriend, and led his team through that with as much grace and humanity as possible, win-loss record be damned. If there's a more traumatic event that a coach had to go through, I don't even want to know about it.
@@clarkkent1521 but he's still one of the greatest coaches because of what he does on the college level. You can't take that away from him. Bill Walsh great NFL coach ok college coach 34-24-1.
Charlie Weis is also a part of BB’s rotten tree, Norte Dame fell apart and Kansas was awful during his tenures despite being the OC during the Pats first dynasty
And scarily enough, Big Chuckie was probably the 2nd best of the bunch behind O’Brian. His first two years at ND weren’t bad, BCS bowl berths in both. After that he was mediocre at best, and he was putrid at Kansas.
The reason BBs text was important, and not just funny, was because BB was told Daboll got the job before Flores interviewed, which proves that Flores interview was a sham.
Hiring Judge was a panic move by the Giants. They wanted Matt Rhule but Carolina jumped the line and offered way more money. The team would’ve been screwed either way lmao
@@TecMatt Too bad The Woodchuck is on a sex offender list. That's why they have extra police around him on the sidelines every game. He don't just look the part... he's done the work son.
@@TecMatt Funny thing about Andy Reid, he got fired from Philly for never winning a Superbowl and going 4-12 in 2012. AFTER winning two rings with (and with Mahomes) the Chiefs now everyone loves him and thinks he's great.
@@nunyabusiness5075 I think it was time for Reid to go in Philly. he was mailing it in, probably because he was dealing with real family issues with his sons getting into bad stuff. I just think he needed a change of scene for his family. I believe he and the Eagles agreed to this together because the owner and GM are still close to Reid even after 'firing' him.
@@woodside4life He might have Power Bottomed under Bill but you're right he never coached under Billy Big Boi... just played his races heart out for the man Billy Big Boi.
@@woodside4lifehe never coached under Bill, but hes a former player turned coach that does use Bills methods. Vrabels a Belicheck Alumni through and through.
Most articles I’ve read on this topic either count him or at least bring him up. He was picking Bill’s brain for defense for the better part of a decade however you look at it.
As someone who was a former assistant to a coach who was REALLY stubborn in his ways (without the hardware to show it worked btw) and seeing those ways clearly bear no fruit whatsoever, I can understand how annoying it must've been to deal with coaches like McDaniels, and the sweet release they must've felt when that time finally came to an end.
Joe Judge is an enigma shrouded in mystery. He must be really good at interviews and that's it. He had a career day when Colt McCoy beat the Seahawks away in an empty stadium. He made it quite clear very early on that he was always destined to fail in New York though.
Joe Judge talked to great game. All you have to do is watch his introductory press conference. He said all the right things. Combine Belichick’s recommendation, with a Giants front office that wanted to make a familiar higher, and that was all she wrote.
Denny Green is directly under Walsh as well. Never made a Super Bowl but was a solid head coach. The 2nd level Walsh tree is just as incredible: Andy Reid, Tony Dungy, Brian Billick, Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy, John Harbaugh, Jon Gruden, Gary Kubiak, Doug Peterson, Sean McVey. In total, Walch’s coaching tree has a total of 15 Super Bowl wins. Throw in Walch’s 4 and and 1/3 of of all Super Bowls were won by Walsh or someone in his tree.
Idk about Seifert he was handed one of the best squads in the history of team sports, and when he goes to Carolina with a lesser squad he just shriveled up and die there.
@farhanatashiga3721 Seifert was handed the Ferrari in SF and to his credit he didn't wreck it. Carolina showed he wasn't good enough to make a Ferrari.
Bill is one of the best coaches we've ever seen at coaching defenses so the DC cannot be gauged objectively and Brady similarly cloaked offensive ineptitude for years. Not all that surprising that an organization that was effectively a two person brain trust has failed to bear successful fruit.
I think a lot of the problem boils down to a lot of the BB Tree trying to run their team like BB would. Really hard nosed, borderline anti-player mentality. The thing is that as time passes, it's clear the Patriots Dynasty succeeded in spite of BB's culture, not because of it.
That is where fans got wrong : he is great at keeping games close, but he needs tons of resources to build such defense. If you expect his defense to make plays at critical, you will be disappointed most of the times.
@@morganyu812 Which is kind of odd because he's really good at collecting picks and making trades. The reason the Ravens were able to draft Ray Lewis in addition to Jonathan Ogden in the first round was trades made by Belichick. I would say he's a good GM who doesn't draft well, but few teams have as much talent on the bottom of the roster. It doesn't show up on the coaching tree, but Ozzie Newsome learned from Belichick, and went on to become a great GM for the Ravens.
@@nunyabusiness5075 "but Ozzie Newsome learned from Belichick, and went on to become a great GM for the Ravens." Ya, Belichick taught him, but he couldn't do it himself. Do you really believe the dogsh!t?
Is Daboll really BB's coaching tree? I feel he's more McDermott's since he really rose to prominence after being the OC for the Bills during Josh Allen's rise from project QB to MVP candidate
Doesn't matter, if he sucks now and they can tie it to Belichick, however tenuously, it's fair game. Of course when Daboll was winning, oh no no no, that doesn't count. Remember fan is just a shortened version of fanatic, and fanatics aren't known for their reasoned arguments and logical consistency.
@@howdareyouexist True, but Daboll also spent time with the Jets, Browns, Dolphins, Chiefs and spent 4 years as Offensive Coordinator with the Bills right before becoming the head coach of the Giants in 2022. He was an offensive coordinator for 1/4 of the AFC (Browns, Dolphins, Chiefs, Bills) (but never was an OC for the Patriots) before becoming a head coach in the NFC.
Lets be fair though, Romeo Crennel and Brian Flores are both able coaches and given a team with talent they could easily dominate in the league. Their records and past were not really their faults nor show their actual ability, unlike McDaniel's who has a record 30% better than it should be and he should never be part or an NFL team again, pretty much the same as Bill O'Brian
@@woodside4life their records are one part of who they are. When management gives you, well The Browns as a team to field, then you have no chance of any kind of winning record.
@@hommie789Brian Flores can't get a offense to save his life and almost wasted a top draft pick because he can't manage shit when he was a coach his offenses suck he isn't good he is a great defensive coordinator that it
Problem is that most of these dudes think they can act like and are Bill Belichick but they aren't. You can move like Bill when you have his record and success, but when you have neither you gotta move different. Hope to God we done with Josh McDaniels as a coaching candidate, he needs to be finished in all these towns.
I feel like the jury is still out on Daboll. His personel SUCKS this year. He managed to get the team to the playoffs last year on what was essentially a rebuild. I think he needs another few years.
These days, I kind of feel coaching trees are overrated. Just because you worked with a legendary coach does not necessarily mean you will be successful once you strike out on your own. Even the once-respected Andy Reid coaching tree seems to have withered, and the best disciples on the downturn. The reasons for these are varied, but the biggest ones are power struggles within an organization, and the head coach being unable to adapt to a rapidly changing game. At least for power struggles, the HC can be scapegoated, but when the HC fails to adjust, there is no one to blame. Just because you worked with a legendary coach does not necessarily mean you will be successful once you strike out on your own, as shown with the failures of the Belichick disciples.
It's pretty obvious that the Belichick coaching system only works with a franchise QB like Brady running the offense. Giants were fluky last year - an exception rather than the rule. The one year the Patsies missed the playoffs, Brady missed almost the whole season. The more time passes, the more I come to believe it was Brady more than Belichick was the reason for their success.
Brugh thats races. Are u sayin' that cuz Billy Big Boi's just a white boi he can't have no Blacks Power Bottoming fer him from his coach Tree? Brugh that might be races, Brugh, I don't know son. Better be careful boy... try that in a small town son
@@jennyanydots2389 You realize you sound the complete opposite of intimidating when your spelling and reasoning skills are notably...*less* than the "boy" you're calling him out as, right?
I think most people agree that Flores was ousted from the Dolphins for reasons other than the quality of his coaching... He'll be good somewhere, I think.
@@simoncohen9323 You don't know anything about football, Brian Flores is a DEFENSIVE coach, He saw Tua before Tua became Tua, So don't come on my thread acting like you know anything, They wanted this man to tank, and He wasn't willing to ruin his Head Coaching future because of it (They hired him because he was black so they could get him up out of the league, At least as a HC) it's cool tho, Keep reading articles that contain ZERO facts
I'm still kinda rooting for Brian Flores to succeed in the NFL to be the one iconoclast from this coaching tree to actually shine without the aid of Touchdown Tom. He's shown lots of potential. I just *really* hope my Raiders keep our interim coach *THIS TIME* if he keeps doing a good job... I was hoping we'd keep Bisaccia all along, but I was willing to give McDaniels a chance. Boy oh boy did he blow that up.
The Falcons are about to have the worst coaching staff of all time. And when Belichick dies we're going to sign joe judge to a contract guaranteed. We are so f*cked!
Bill Belichick with Tom Brady as QB: Number of seasons as HC: 18 Record: 219-64 Winning Seasons: 18 Division Winner: 17 Playoff Made: 17 Playoff Record: 30-11 Super Bowls: 6 Bill Belichick without Tom Brady as QB: Number of seasons as HC: 11 Current Record: 81-97 Winning Seasons: 3 Division Winner: 0 Playoffs Made: 2 Playoff Record: 1-2 Super Bowls: 0 Tom Brady without Bill Belichick as HC: Number of seasons as QB: 3 Record: 32-18 Winning Seasons: 2 Division Winner: 2 Playoffs Made: 3 Playoff Record: 5-2 Super Bowls: 1
I mean Vrabel is from the Patriots, and the Patriots currently have good assistants like Steve Belichick and Jerod Mayo. Flores also likely has a good chance of being a good head coach one day. Edit: as for GM's, there's still Ossenfort(Cardinals), Caserio(Texans), Licht(Buccaneers), and there was Ziegler(just fired by Raiders but still could be a good executive down the line)
If I remember right, Brian Flores was congratulated for getting the New York job before he even interviewed. Flores was scheduled to be interviewed later. That would mean Daboll already had the job and the Flores interview was just for appearances. That is if everything alleged is true.
It does make me wonder what would have happened if Tom Brady played for another coach all these years. I feel that if not for the Gisele drama, he could have won another SB in Tampa.
The equation is simple. If you're a coach and you have Tom Brady, you look good. If you leave and no longer have Tom Brady, you'll be exposed for how bad you really are.
I'll admit it: I was brainwashed by Quinn and Patricia thinking they'd turn around the Lions. Boy was I wrong. They traded away Diggs and Slay, and I'll never forgive them for that. So glad the Lions hired Holmes and Campbell!
Joe Gibbs had a pretty lousy coching tree Joe Bugel, Richie Pettibon, Dan Henning. Jimmy Johnson also wasn't much to write home about Dave Wandtstedt, Norv Turner, Dave Shula, Dave Campo, Butch Davis
Not going lie, I wanted Josh McDaniels in 2009 for my Lions, we got Matt Patricia in 2018 who I was excited about and was clearly a disaster. Bill O’Brien was clearly the most competent one, then ego, personal power did him in along with having a weirdo as franchise quarterback. Also seems like most of Belichick hires either had personal control or were hired by a fellow Patriot like here in Detroit where we had Bob Quinn the head of scouting with Patriots who brought in Patricia. And truth now is Belichick the GM is hurting Belichick the head coach. People like point out Belichick was 41-57 before Brady took over in 2001, however there is more context then just the numbers. Belichick took over a rebuilding Cleveland Browns job in 1991 pre free agency, so took longer turn a team around, after 3 years a combined record of 20-28, Belichick went 11-5 and won a playoff game in 1994 with Vinny Testeverde, and correctly made the unpopular decision to move on from Bernie Kosar who was done. In 1995 Browns had Super Bowl aspirations, got off to a 4-4 start when Art Modell pulled rug on the season with 8 games left. With rumors swirling that Modell was going move to the team prior to a home game against the Oilers a 37-10 loss, going 4-5, Modell the next day announced team would move to Baltimore in 1996 and team never recovered losing their next 5 games, before winning the second to last game the finale at Cleveland Stadium, finishing 5-11. Belichick got screwed by Modell, why he resigned as Jets head coach in 2000 who at the time were on the market to be sold, with no owner in place, Belichick wisely wasn’t going take his second and likely last chance of being a head coach and not knowing who the owner was after the way Art Modell did him wrong, including firing over the phone after saying Belichick woukd come to Baltimore with the team. So having a previous relationship with Robert Kraft as an assistant there in 1996 under Parcells, Belichick felt comfortable returning work for an owner like Kraft who seen the team was heading towards mediocrity under Pete Carroll. And yes Belichick started off 5-13 in New England however in 2008 and 2016 Brady would miss a total of 19 games where the team went 13-6 with quarterbacks like Matt Cassel, Jimmy G and Jacoby Brissett. The team didn’t implode like Colts did after Peyton Manning was out for season in 2011 with Colts going from 10-6 to 2-14. It was obvious Belichick had built a strong foundation led by a quarterback in Brady that bought in and set the tone for others too, but let’s not act he inherited a can’t miss prospect in Brady, who was a sixth round pick. The Patriots ranked 6th, 1st & 2nd in defense those first 3 Super Bowl titles, allowed Brady time to develop and become the GOAT from 2007 on when Brady won his first MVP. There was once an actual debate in the 00s between Peyton Manning and Brady. And I give Brady credit for winning with Bucs, first by having the football IQ to see how talented the Buccaneers were and not going to the Raiders, Chargers like some of teams he was rumored too. Unfortunately you hang on too long, you eventually won’t go out on top as Brady experienced his first losing season as starter last year, with a Brady unlike mentality where he ran off Arians then skipped out training camp over his wife, Brady lost the structure Belichick provided. And Belichick the GM has hurt Belichick the coach, his drafts of late have been head scratchers which has played a huge part in teams decline. Maybe Belichick will get his next team to join like Brady did the Buccaneers, a team with a quarterback in place like the Chargers, I like see it.
The other coaching trees are a system, Bills tree is a person , Bill. Nobody can make the impossible decisions like bill can bring coach and gm. Maybe some in his line just lack the intestinal fortitude or ability to say and do the things Bill does without any hesitation.
“O’Brien thought he was as smart of a GM as his tutor” soooo what you’re saying he’s Belicheat’s equal as GM? Cuz Belichick SUCKS as a GM, especially drafting.
this is common in the real world. a single high performer (brady) makes an entire staff look way better than they actually are. when other organizations attempt to poach that "talent", they are ultimately disappointed
none of them had tom Brady clones at their new jobs. bellicheck is like a guy who won the lottery and somehow convinced himself he was a business genius
Brian Flores has turned the Vikings roster all around compared to last year. And the Vikings Roster lost a lot defensive pieces. So this part of Bellicheck coaching tree is still kicking.
Belichick came off of one of the great coaching trees, but is turning out like Joe Gibbs, who was also an excellent coach for years, but did not produce any lineage of great disciples.
You should do a video on the most flourishing coaching tree. Gotta be the Andy Reid - Mike Holmgren - Bill Walsh - Paul Brown (and all its many branches) tree, right?
Gunna say what the football world has been terrified to admit. Belicheck had a losing record when Brady showed up, and hes had a losing record since he left. Its not just having greatest most clutch player of all time, he had him taking pay cuts, and he had the best free agents every year taking pay cuts to ring chase. Belicheck rode Brady into the Hall of Fame and his coaching system doesnt work for his disciples cuz it doesnt work for anyone including himself without Brady.
I think it would be interesting to look at other limbs on bill parcells coaching tree. While Coughlin and Payton were successful their assistants haven’t really shown much more. Dan Campbell may be the exception.
There is far more turn over with assistants and coordinators these days. Honestly most coaches arent really innovating as much as they are using a subset of Bill Walsh's system, so really it's all Walsh's coaching tree, and if you actually look at his tree you'd find that to be mostly true. That just show's how far ahead Walsh actually was.
@@Chillyraider I think the bill Walsh coaching tree is still alive and developing The Reid limb and the Shanahan limb still bear fruit. Perhaps that system is better for coaching trees compared to the Parcels system
The whole Flores and racism suit was such nonsense. "Bill Belechik called the wrong person with the same first name, and a last name two letters different, it's racism!!!"
it's pretty clear now tom brady was literally carrying them all. mcdaniels, obrien and patricia are among the very worst football coaches/gm's that have ever been employed in the nfl
@@nunyabusiness5075 When his defense was asked to save the team at critical times, his defense failed, even played less than 20 minutes. The missing FG saved the Giants. Remember how Pats beat Bills? that is what he needed from his QB, with a cheap squad, against good teams.
@@nunyabusiness5075 If Billy Big Boi didn't have some of the best (certainly one of the best in LT) pass rush in NFL history that team isn't remembered for anything and Billy Big Boi is probably acting assistant managing his local Home Depot for a living by now. Just like in NE... he only cuts the turds when he had the personnel... love to see how good the defense is without Lawrence Tayler, probably the most feared pass rusher in modern NFL history... (maybe reggie white Tops his Power Bottom out)
Always has been. He has more super bowls, but an argument can be made for andy reid over him as he actually develops coaches. Andys coaching tree is crazy.
Good video Fives, now can we see a video as to why Andy Reid's coaching tree is so successful. I mean the fact that one won a Super Bowl before he did with Doug Peterson and the Eagles in 2017-18 and that Andy faced both Peterson and Sirianni in the Playoffs last year, something Belichick never had the privilege of facing his own tree in most of a playoff run, proves that the Reid Tree is superior to the Belichick Tree even if Belichick has twice as many Super Bowl Rings as the Reid Tree put together. I mean the lowest branch of the Reid Tree is Ron Rivera and arguably Matt Nagy. Although lets be honest, both are screwed by infighting within the Reid coaching Tree since Nagy went insane after the Double Doink, which was caused by Peterson, and Rivera has to face Sirianni twice every year.
It is good and bad, for Belichick, if you think about it. It is good because it shows that he was likely the big brain in the room and he deserves the bulk of the coaching credit. It is bad because it shows that his talent acquisition was dubious, and it makes him look lesser than other great coaches who have good trees.
The Brett Favre-era in NY can’t be pinned completely on Mangini. They started out like 7-2 and Favre tore his pec and refused to tell anyone and they completely fell apart because he didn’t know where the ball was going to end up when it left his hand.
I think all of that shows that Tom Brady is the Goat and was the reason for the Patriots success. Bellicheks Coaching historie was shit before Tom Brady and it’s shit After Tom Brady. And so is all his Coaching tree
Bill Belichick is the Sir Alex Ferguson of the NFL in that all his proteges have failed. In McDaniels, Garcia, O'Brien, Dabol, you have Bruce, Hughes, Robson and Scholes.
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I think it’s possible to applaud the brilliant tree of Andy Reid and his ability to pass on knowledge and also praise Belichek for getting the most out of some real morons.
That's a fair way to look at it
If Belichek is going to get the credit for being a genius, he should get the blame for continuing to hire morons.
The pedigree from Walsh to Holmgrem to Reid is kind of insane.
Like anyone in Reid’s tree has an insane lineage to pull from
A coaching tree built on one genius quarterback😂
isn’t crazy though that nobody on coaching except has had success as a head coach i don’t ever happened other then with bill. i wonder if it’s a control thing.
My happiest day as a football fan was when DeMeco Ryans was hired as Texans' coach, signalling the end of the McNairs' obsession with turning the Texans into Patriots South.
Becoming 49ers South is going to be a huge improvement.
Hardly see y'all becoming the Niners South. That's just ridiculous
Plus he's a former Texan
The niners are Texans west considering Shanahan Lafleur McDaniels them all came from Gary Kubiak
Becoming playoff chokers would be an improvement from not making the playoffs at all
Hated Kubiak. He was a mediocre coach.@@BlacknWhiteBadger88
Matt Patricia. The guy who stubbornly stood by his decision to have his practices outside in the snow… and the Lions play in a DOME.
Omg😆
Guess the Eagles didn't see matt's time in Detroit.
Bill Belichick's career coaching record was 41-57 the day Tom Brady took over as starting quarterback in September of 2001
Also partly due to the fact he coached the browns
@@ConnorO74not a usable excuse… the browns were actually good… infact a few years after they moved to Baltimore they won a super bowl
@ConnorO74 You do realize, the browns were in the afc championship in 1986, 1987, and 1989, and Bill Belichick became browns coach in 1991, don't you???? Also, even if the browns were such a bad franchise, which they clearly weren't, don't you think St. Belichick would've turned the team around???
He brought Thom in from the local Kroger where he was stockin' shelves full of boxed mashed potatoes and boxed dry spaghetti. Thom would be, right now son, dead or tied up for gRape in some dude's basement if not for Bill Buildachuck. So show a little respect boy. Talk right about the man yo.
@@ConnorO74The iteration of the browns that belichick ran became the ravens, the modern day browns are something different entirely and poorly ran. Belichick at the very least had a decent infrastructure with the browns at the time.
There's a lot of well-deserved schadenfreude on this list, but let's take a moment to give some love to Romeo Crennel. The guy saw one of his best players take his own life after murdering his girlfriend, and led his team through that with as much grace and humanity as possible, win-loss record be damned. If there's a more traumatic event that a coach had to go through, I don't even want to know about it.
You're right
Rae Caruth... ordered a hit on his pregnant girlfriend.
@@morsumbra9692i think jovan belcher was more tragic than rae though both are fucked up. at least rae’s kid survived
And he did lead the Browns to a 10-6 record
Someone forgot that Nick Saban is from Belichick's coaching tree. Saban was the first assistant Belichick ever hired as a head coach.
Belichick was in Toledo immediately after his first Browns press conference, begging Saban to come east on the Ohio Turnpike.
No nick Saban doesn’t really count. He wasn’t successful in the nfl.
@@KanyeTheGayFish69 no he most certainly was not. Prick.....
Saban is 15-17 as an NFL head coach.
@@clarkkent1521 but he's still one of the greatest coaches because of what he does on the college level. You can't take that away from him. Bill Walsh great NFL coach ok college coach 34-24-1.
Charlie Weis is also a part of BB’s rotten tree, Norte Dame fell apart and Kansas was awful during his tenures despite being the OC during the Pats first dynasty
And scarily enough, Big Chuckie was probably the 2nd best of the bunch behind O’Brian. His first two years at ND weren’t bad, BCS bowl berths in both. After that he was mediocre at best, and he was putrid at Kansas.
Weis came up with belichick under Bill Parcels actually.
@@zlinedavidif we’re counting college then the best of Belichik’s coaching tree is easily Nick Saban, not O’Brien
The reason BBs text was important, and not just funny, was because BB was told Daboll got the job before Flores interviewed, which proves that Flores interview was a sham.
Hiring Judge was a panic move by the Giants. They wanted Matt Rhule but Carolina jumped the line and offered way more money. The team would’ve been screwed either way lmao
Daboll actually is all that bad. Its just his Quarterback sucks and he doesn’t have much of an offensive line
You should do a video on the coaches with the best coaching trees.
Andy Reid is up there for sure
@@TecMatt Too bad The Woodchuck is on a sex offender list. That's why they have extra police around him on the sidelines every game. He don't just look the part... he's done the work son.
@@TecMatt Funny thing about Andy Reid, he got fired from Philly for never winning a Superbowl and going 4-12 in 2012. AFTER winning two rings with (and with Mahomes) the Chiefs now everyone loves him and thinks he's great.
@@nunyabusiness5075 I think it was time for Reid to go in Philly. he was mailing it in, probably because he was dealing with real family issues with his sons getting into bad stuff. I just think he needed a change of scene for his family. I believe he and the Eagles agreed to this together because the owner and GM are still close to Reid even after 'firing' him.
Does Mike Vrabel also count, considering he was on O'Brien's staff and played a big part in the Pats' early dynasty?
Mick Vrabel's a real Bunt Citch if ya ask me boy!!! Keep his name outta yo mouf son!!
I don’t think so since he never directly coached under Belichick
@@woodside4life He might have Power Bottomed under Bill but you're right he never coached under Billy Big Boi... just played his races heart out for the man Billy Big Boi.
@@woodside4lifehe never coached under Bill, but hes a former player turned coach that does use Bills methods. Vrabels a Belicheck Alumni through and through.
Most articles I’ve read on this topic either count him or at least bring him up. He was picking Bill’s brain for defense for the better part of a decade however you look at it.
As someone who was a former assistant to a coach who was REALLY stubborn in his ways (without the hardware to show it worked btw) and seeing those ways clearly bear no fruit whatsoever, I can understand how annoying it must've been to deal with coaches like McDaniels, and the sweet release they must've felt when that time finally came to an end.
Joe Judge is an enigma shrouded in mystery. He must be really good at interviews and that's it. He had a career day when Colt McCoy beat the Seahawks away in an empty stadium. He made it quite clear very early on that he was always destined to fail in New York though.
I'm sure most douches do well in interviews. 😁
He was highly recommended by Belichick.
Joe Judge talked to great game. All you have to do is watch his introductory press conference. He said all the right things. Combine Belichick’s recommendation, with a Giants front office that wanted to make a familiar higher, and that was all she wrote.
Bill Walsh had the best coaching tree. Holmgren, ray Rhodes, mike shanahan, George Seifert, even sam wyche took Cincy to the Superbowl
Denny Green is directly under Walsh as well. Never made a Super Bowl but was a solid head coach.
The 2nd level Walsh tree is just as incredible: Andy Reid, Tony Dungy, Brian Billick, Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy, John Harbaugh, Jon Gruden, Gary Kubiak, Doug Peterson, Sean McVey.
In total, Walch’s coaching tree has a total of 15 Super Bowl wins. Throw in Walch’s 4 and and 1/3 of of all Super Bowls were won by Walsh or someone in his tree.
Idk about Seifert he was handed one of the best squads in the history of team sports, and when he goes to Carolina with a lesser squad he just shriveled up and die there.
@@farhanatashiga3721 Doesn’t matter whose players they were, the coach still has to coach them.
@farhanatashiga3721 Seifert was handed the Ferrari in SF and to his credit he didn't wreck it. Carolina showed he wasn't good enough to make a Ferrari.
Plus his tree is very much alive today.
Bill is one of the best coaches we've ever seen at coaching defenses so the DC cannot be gauged objectively and Brady similarly cloaked offensive ineptitude for years.
Not all that surprising that an organization that was effectively a two person brain trust has failed to bear successful fruit.
I think a lot of the problem boils down to a lot of the BB Tree trying to run their team like BB would. Really hard nosed, borderline anti-player mentality. The thing is that as time passes, it's clear the Patriots Dynasty succeeded in spite of BB's culture, not because of it.
I think more of the problem lies with BB as a GM. Hes not great at drafting players.
That is where fans got wrong : he is great at keeping games close, but he needs tons of resources to build such defense.
If you expect his defense to make plays at critical, you will be disappointed most of the times.
@@morganyu812 Which is kind of odd because he's really good at collecting picks and making trades. The reason the Ravens were able to draft Ray Lewis in addition to Jonathan Ogden in the first round was trades made by Belichick. I would say he's a good GM who doesn't draft well, but few teams have as much talent on the bottom of the roster. It doesn't show up on the coaching tree, but Ozzie Newsome learned from Belichick, and went on to become a great GM for the Ravens.
@@nunyabusiness5075 "but Ozzie Newsome learned from Belichick, and went on to become a great GM for the Ravens."
Ya, Belichick taught him, but he couldn't do it himself. Do you really believe the dogsh!t?
Is Daboll really BB's coaching tree? I feel he's more McDermott's since he really rose to prominence after being the OC for the Bills during Josh Allen's rise from project QB to MVP candidate
Wondering the same. His Pats connection doesn’t appear to be as deep as the others on here
You said it yourself. He rose to Prominence. Meaning he got more fame from turning around Allen's career. He still coached under BB.
Doesn't matter, if he sucks now and they can tie it to Belichick, however tenuously, it's fair game. Of course when Daboll was winning, oh no no no, that doesn't count. Remember fan is just a shortened version of fanatic, and fanatics aren't known for their reasoned arguments and logical consistency.
he got his nfl start under belichick and spent more time under him than any other coach at 9-10 years so yes.
@@howdareyouexist True, but Daboll also spent time with the Jets, Browns, Dolphins, Chiefs and spent 4 years as Offensive Coordinator with the Bills right before becoming the head coach of the Giants in 2022. He was an offensive coordinator for 1/4 of the AFC (Browns, Dolphins, Chiefs, Bills) (but never was an OC for the Patriots) before becoming a head coach in the NFC.
Lets be fair though, Romeo Crennel and Brian Flores are both able coaches and given a team with talent they could easily dominate in the league. Their records and past were not really their faults nor show their actual ability, unlike McDaniel's who has a record 30% better than it should be and he should never be part or an NFL team again, pretty much the same as Bill O'Brian
Flores almost ruined Tua.
Their records are literal measuring sticks of their abilities. Famous coach once said “You are what your record says you are.”
@@woodside4life their records are one part of who they are. When management gives you, well The Browns as a team to field, then you have no chance of any kind of winning record.
@@baxatakbaxatak2014this.
@@hommie789Brian Flores can't get a offense to save his life and almost wasted a top draft pick because he can't manage shit when he was a coach his offenses suck he isn't good he is a great defensive coordinator that it
Problem is that most of these dudes think they can act like and are Bill Belichick but they aren't. You can move like Bill when you have his record and success, but when you have neither you gotta move different.
Hope to God we done with Josh McDaniels as a coaching candidate, he needs to be finished in all these towns.
Fr. You'd think they would look at his very public record and think "this dude is hot garbage" and quit employing his ass.
Had you put Belichick in Raiders two years ago, you would get the same results out of Raiders.
After the deflategate SCAM the Colts tried to pull, I would wish McDaniels on them.
Bill O Brian should never be allowed to coach again. And Ohio State just hired him as an offensive coordinator. What is Ohio State thinking?
I feel like the jury is still out on Daboll. His personel SUCKS this year. He managed to get the team to the playoffs last year on what was essentially a rebuild. I think he needs another few years.
The shanahan tree is growing into a forest at this point
The Belicheck coaching tree has a lot of termites! Joe Judge, Matt Patrica, and McDaniels are 3 of the biggest.
These days, I kind of feel coaching trees are overrated. Just because you worked with a legendary coach does not necessarily mean you will be successful once you strike out on your own. Even the once-respected Andy Reid coaching tree seems to have withered, and the best disciples on the downturn. The reasons for these are varied, but the biggest ones are power struggles within an organization, and the head coach being unable to adapt to a rapidly changing game. At least for power struggles, the HC can be scapegoated, but when the HC fails to adjust, there is no one to blame. Just because you worked with a legendary coach does not necessarily mean you will be successful once you strike out on your own, as shown with the failures of the Belichick disciples.
It's pretty obvious that the Belichick coaching system only works with a franchise QB like Brady running the offense. Giants were fluky last year - an exception rather than the rule. The one year the Patsies missed the playoffs, Brady missed almost the whole season. The more time passes, the more I come to believe it was Brady more than Belichick was the reason for their success.
I actually think Daboll is a good coach with a mediocre quarterback and a terrible offensive line
That conclusion at the end though!!! “None of them had Tom Brady” Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaammmmmmmmmmmn
Now we know why McDaniels left the Colts at the alter:
Because Jim Irsay is a white billionaire.
jim schwartz was part of belichicks coaching tree and he turned the browns d from worst last season to first this season.
It's interesting that the players he coached are doing better than his disciples.
Brugh thats races. Are u sayin' that cuz Billy Big Boi's just a white boi he can't have no Blacks Power Bottoming fer him from his coach Tree? Brugh that might be races, Brugh, I don't know son. Better be careful boy... try that in a small town son
@@jennyanydots2389 what? Lls
@@jennyanydots2389 You realize you sound the complete opposite of intimidating when your spelling and reasoning skills are notably...*less* than the "boy" you're calling him out as, right?
@@basteala525 I realize this. Why? We gotta problem here son? You tryin' to stan on my freedoms boiii?!?! Try that inside of a small town, boy
Cringe asf.
Brian Flores is the only life that's actually left from that tree... Flores has a Top 5 defense in all major categories currently 🤷🏻♂️
He actually has more of a chance to become a head coach again, Than Belichick has of retaining, or getting a HC job again
I think most people agree that Flores was ousted from the Dolphins for reasons other than the quality of his coaching... He'll be good somewhere, I think.
@@dominicvandermyde3773that false
@@arachnofiend2859he was ousted because his offense was trash and tried getting rid of tua and almost ruined his career
@@simoncohen9323 You don't know anything about football, Brian Flores is a DEFENSIVE coach, He saw Tua before Tua became Tua, So don't come on my thread acting like you know anything, They wanted this man to tank, and He wasn't willing to ruin his Head Coaching future because of it (They hired him because he was black so they could get him up out of the league, At least as a HC) it's cool tho, Keep reading articles that contain ZERO facts
3:08 never forget how much Brandon Perna loved this clip 😂😂
@ 5:00, using the Coors..."Coach, coach, coach!" commercials...the funniest commercials ever!
Belichick's disciples have all had the terrible misfortune of not having a Tom Brady on their teams.
Romeo Crennel is not apart of Belichicks coaching tree. Crennel came up WITH Belichick under Bill Parcells. Same for Charlie Weis.
Walsh’s coaching tree still growing!
I'm still kinda rooting for Brian Flores to succeed in the NFL to be the one iconoclast from this coaching tree to actually shine without the aid of Touchdown Tom. He's shown lots of potential.
I just *really* hope my Raiders keep our interim coach *THIS TIME* if he keeps doing a good job... I was hoping we'd keep Bisaccia all along, but I was willing to give McDaniels a chance. Boy oh boy did he blow that up.
Only successful remaining assistant inter BB is Kirk Ferentz who’s still chugging along at Iowa getting 8-9 wins a season
"Know them by their fruit." 😂
The Falcons are about to have the worst coaching staff of all time. And when Belichick dies we're going to sign joe judge to a contract guaranteed. We are so f*cked!
Bill Belichick with Tom Brady as QB:
Number of seasons as HC: 18
Record: 219-64
Winning Seasons: 18
Division Winner: 17
Playoff Made: 17
Playoff Record: 30-11
Super Bowls: 6
Bill Belichick without Tom Brady as QB:
Number of seasons as HC: 11
Current Record: 81-97
Winning Seasons: 3
Division Winner: 0
Playoffs Made: 2
Playoff Record: 1-2
Super Bowls: 0
Tom Brady without Bill Belichick as HC:
Number of seasons as QB: 3
Record: 32-18
Winning Seasons: 2
Division Winner: 2
Playoffs Made: 3
Playoff Record: 5-2
Super Bowls: 1
Game set match
I mean Vrabel is from the Patriots, and the Patriots currently have good assistants like Steve Belichick and Jerod Mayo. Flores also likely has a good chance of being a good head coach one day.
Edit: as for GM's, there's still Ossenfort(Cardinals), Caserio(Texans), Licht(Buccaneers), and there was Ziegler(just fired by Raiders but still could be a good executive down the line)
Bill Walsh hired good people and wasn't afraid to let them succeed
If I remember right, Brian Flores was congratulated for getting the New York job before he even interviewed. Flores was scheduled to be interviewed later. That would mean Daboll already had the job and the Flores interview was just for appearances. That is if everything alleged is true.
It does make me wonder what would have happened if Tom Brady played for another coach all these years. I feel that if not for the Gisele drama, he could have won another SB in Tampa.
The equation is simple. If you're a coach and you have Tom Brady, you look good. If you leave and no longer have Tom Brady, you'll be exposed for how bad you really are.
I'll admit it: I was brainwashed by Quinn and Patricia thinking they'd turn around the Lions. Boy was I wrong. They traded away Diggs and Slay, and I'll never forgive them for that. So glad the Lions hired Holmes and Campbell!
Flores is an elite coach but nobody wants him because of him suing the nfl. As a vikings fan I won’t complain
"Turns out.. he had a manGINA" this killed me 😭 6:34
Ayyyyyyy! 5 Points upload! What a way to cap off a crazy Saturday of college football!
Joe Gibbs had a pretty lousy coching tree Joe Bugel, Richie Pettibon, Dan Henning. Jimmy Johnson also wasn't much to write home about Dave Wandtstedt, Norv Turner, Dave Shula, Dave Campo, Butch Davis
The "coaches who made a living off of Tom Brady's success" tree....
Except Daboll
Not going lie, I wanted Josh McDaniels in 2009 for my Lions, we got Matt Patricia in 2018 who I was excited about and was clearly a disaster. Bill O’Brien was clearly the most competent one, then ego, personal power did him in along with having a weirdo as franchise quarterback. Also seems like most of Belichick hires either had personal control or were hired by a fellow Patriot like here in Detroit where we had Bob Quinn the head of scouting with Patriots who brought in Patricia. And truth now is Belichick the GM is hurting Belichick the head coach. People like point out Belichick was 41-57 before Brady took over in 2001, however there is more context then just the numbers. Belichick took over a rebuilding Cleveland Browns job in 1991 pre free agency, so took longer turn a team around, after 3 years a combined record of 20-28, Belichick went 11-5 and won a playoff game in 1994 with Vinny Testeverde, and correctly made the unpopular decision to move on from Bernie Kosar who was done. In 1995 Browns had Super Bowl aspirations, got off to a 4-4 start when Art Modell pulled rug on the season with 8 games left. With rumors swirling that Modell was going move to the team prior to a home game against the Oilers a 37-10 loss, going 4-5, Modell the next day announced team would move to Baltimore in 1996 and team never recovered losing their next 5 games, before winning the second to last game the finale at Cleveland Stadium, finishing 5-11. Belichick got screwed by Modell, why he resigned as Jets head coach in 2000 who at the time were on the market to be sold, with no owner in place, Belichick wisely wasn’t going take his second and likely last chance of being a head coach and not knowing who the owner was after the way Art Modell did him wrong, including firing over the phone after saying Belichick woukd come to Baltimore with the team. So having a previous relationship with Robert Kraft as an assistant there in 1996 under Parcells, Belichick felt comfortable returning work for an owner like Kraft who seen the team was heading towards mediocrity under Pete Carroll. And yes Belichick started off 5-13 in New England however in 2008 and 2016 Brady would miss a total of 19 games where the team went 13-6 with quarterbacks like Matt Cassel, Jimmy G and Jacoby Brissett. The team didn’t implode like Colts did after Peyton Manning was out for season in 2011 with Colts going from 10-6 to 2-14. It was obvious Belichick had built a strong foundation led by a quarterback in Brady that bought in and set the tone for others too, but let’s not act he inherited a can’t miss prospect in Brady, who was a sixth round pick. The Patriots ranked 6th, 1st & 2nd in defense those first 3 Super Bowl titles, allowed Brady time to develop and become the GOAT from 2007 on when Brady won his first MVP. There was once an actual debate in the 00s between Peyton Manning and Brady. And I give Brady credit for winning with Bucs, first by having the football IQ to see how talented the Buccaneers were and not going to the Raiders, Chargers like some of teams he was rumored too. Unfortunately you hang on too long, you eventually won’t go out on top as Brady experienced his first losing season as starter last year, with a Brady unlike mentality where he ran off Arians then skipped out training camp over his wife, Brady lost the structure Belichick provided. And Belichick the GM has hurt Belichick the coach, his drafts of late have been head scratchers which has played a huge part in teams decline. Maybe Belichick will get his next team to join like Brady did the Buccaneers, a team with a quarterback in place like the Chargers, I like see it.
The other coaching trees are a system, Bills tree is a person , Bill. Nobody can make the impossible decisions like bill can bring coach and gm. Maybe some in his line just lack the intestinal fortitude or ability to say and do the things Bill does without any hesitation.
Belichicks system is called Tom Brady ^^
It's not often you come across a coaching tree so large but so dead.
I feel bad for Romeo Crennel.
Bill belichick coaching tree never existed lmao
Notice how Belichick sends failed disciples to teams that beat him in the Super Bowl.
FTR Bill O'Brien did not lead the Texans to their first 2 playoff wins. That piece of history belongs to Gary Kubiak
“O’Brien thought he was as smart of a GM as his tutor” soooo what you’re saying he’s Belicheat’s equal as GM? Cuz Belichick SUCKS as a GM, especially drafting.
this is common in the real world. a single high performer (brady) makes an entire staff look way better than they actually are. when other organizations attempt to poach that "talent", they are ultimately disappointed
Patricia looked like homeless DJ Khaled. When he coached our Lions I used to call him Coach Khaled.
none of them had tom Brady clones at their new jobs. bellicheck is like a guy who won the lottery and somehow convinced himself he was a business genius
Brian Flores has turned the Vikings roster all around compared to last year. And the Vikings Roster lost a lot defensive pieces. So this part of Bellicheck coaching tree is still kicking.
Surprised brian hasnt claimed that someone called him a racial slur.
@@BillyBob-wq9fl maybe because your jokes aren't funny
except the video is about head-coaching fails, not assistant coaches.
@@mudman619 But Daboll hasn't really failed tho
@@maskedman5657 It ain't looking great
Belichick is the luckiest coach in the history, he passed on Tom Brady 5 times and still got him. And that move is the reason of his coaching career.
Lol damn if that’s not accurate
Dang, no mention of Charlie Weis, the OG disciple of Belichick?
I'm guessing he's only considering disciples that went on to be NFL head coaches, since coaching in college is just a completely different world.
Belichick came off of one of the great coaching trees, but is turning out like Joe Gibbs, who was also an excellent coach for years, but did not produce any lineage of great disciples.
I truly believe that Patricia is the reason for the collapse of the eagles this season
Us lions fans had to endure his influence for years thankfully was fired from Detroit
And that led to Matt Stafford to Hollywood and a Super Bowl
The old lady loved Patricia. Sheila had to beg and beg and beg her mother to fire him and Quinn.
Take Brady out of the picture, and the trunk of the tree is a rotten as its branches!
This
You should do a video on the most flourishing coaching tree. Gotta be the Andy Reid - Mike Holmgren - Bill Walsh - Paul Brown (and all its many branches) tree, right?
Mike Judge would have been preferable to Joe Judge.
“Huh-huhhh-heh-huh, shut up Beavis !”
You mean none of these guys made the genius move of discovering his backup quarterback was a future Hall of Famer and generational talent?😂
Because without Brady, Belichick isn't a legend and Belichick is just a .500 or lower coach. Doesn't everyone know this by now!!??
They should call it the Tom Brady coaching tree. You need a QB like Brady for the tree to bear fruit.
Yep, Brady was the engine that made the Belichick car run. That's why Belichick isn't close to the top as far as all time great head coaches.
Gunna say what the football world has been terrified to admit. Belicheck had a losing record when Brady showed up, and hes had a losing record since he left. Its not just having greatest most clutch player of all time, he had him taking pay cuts, and he had the best free agents every year taking pay cuts to ring chase. Belicheck rode Brady into the Hall of Fame and his coaching system doesnt work for his disciples cuz it doesnt work for anyone including himself without Brady.
That clip of Belichick rudely shoving that cameraman out of the way will never get old lol
I think it would be interesting to look at other limbs on bill parcells coaching tree. While Coughlin and Payton were successful their assistants haven’t really shown much more. Dan Campbell may be the exception.
There is far more turn over with assistants and coordinators these days. Honestly most coaches arent really innovating as much as they are using a subset of Bill Walsh's system, so really it's all Walsh's coaching tree, and if you actually look at his tree you'd find that to be mostly true. That just show's how far ahead Walsh actually was.
@@Chillyraider I think the bill Walsh coaching tree is still alive and developing
The Reid limb and the Shanahan limb still bear fruit.
Perhaps that system is better for coaching trees compared to the Parcels system
“Well turns out Mangini was a mangina.” Lmfao
The reason Belichick’s discipline have failed is because none of them had Tom Brady as their quarterback.
Brian Flores is experiencing a bit of a phoenix rise as Minnesota's DC. I wouldn't say it's quite all the way dead yet.
Shanahan coaching tree is probably the most impressive
The whole Flores and racism suit was such nonsense. "Bill Belechik called the wrong person with the same first name, and a last name two letters different, it's racism!!!"
it's pretty clear now tom brady was literally carrying them all. mcdaniels, obrien and patricia are among the very worst football coaches/gm's that have ever been employed in the nfl
Bill should give Thom one of his rings and service him extra for how much he did fer him.
What about the two Superbowl rings Belichick got while being the defensive coordinator with the Giants? Does he have to give those away too?
@@nunyabusiness5075 When his defense was asked to save the team at critical times, his defense failed, even played less than 20 minutes.
The missing FG saved the Giants. Remember how Pats beat Bills? that is what he needed from his QB, with a cheap squad, against good teams.
@@nunyabusiness5075 If Billy Big Boi didn't have some of the best (certainly one of the best in LT) pass rush in NFL history that team isn't remembered for anything and Billy Big Boi is probably acting assistant managing his local Home Depot for a living by now. Just like in NE... he only cuts the turds when he had the personnel... love to see how good the defense is without Lawrence Tayler, probably the most feared pass rusher in modern NFL history... (maybe reggie white Tops his Power Bottom out)
Desharby Watstein...
One reason why I watch FivePoints faithfully.
At least he has a tree. Mike Tomlin is a stump
"Desharvey Watstein" LOL
Always has been. He has more super bowls, but an argument can be made for andy reid over him as he actually develops coaches. Andys coaching tree is crazy.
1:44 is the end of the ad
Coach Palpatine has run out of midichlorians...
Good video Fives, now can we see a video as to why Andy Reid's coaching tree is so successful. I mean the fact that one won a Super Bowl before he did with Doug Peterson and the Eagles in 2017-18 and that Andy faced both Peterson and Sirianni in the Playoffs last year, something Belichick never had the privilege of facing his own tree in most of a playoff run, proves that the Reid Tree is superior to the Belichick Tree even if Belichick has twice as many Super Bowl Rings as the Reid Tree put together. I mean the lowest branch of the Reid Tree is Ron Rivera and arguably Matt Nagy. Although lets be honest, both are screwed by infighting within the Reid coaching Tree since Nagy went insane after the Double Doink, which was caused by Peterson, and Rivera has to face Sirianni twice every year.
It is good and bad, for Belichick, if you think about it. It is good because it shows that he was likely the big brain in the room and he deserves the bulk of the coaching credit. It is bad because it shows that his talent acquisition was dubious, and it makes him look lesser than other great coaches who have good trees.
“Fatty Matty Patty”😂
The Brett Favre-era in NY can’t be pinned completely on Mangini. They started out like 7-2 and Favre tore his pec and refused to tell anyone and they completely fell apart because he didn’t know where the ball was going to end up when it left his hand.
I think all of that shows that Tom Brady is the Goat and was the reason for the Patriots success. Bellicheks Coaching historie was shit before Tom Brady and it’s shit After Tom Brady. And so is all his Coaching tree
Forgot one
Notre Dame
Kansas
The Bill Walsh tree is one of the best.
Imagine if Daboll gets replaced this off-season by Belichick, and the new Pats coach is Josh McDaniels. The NFL comedy meter would go on full tilt.
Bill Belichick is the Sir Alex Ferguson of the NFL in that all his proteges have failed.
In McDaniels, Garcia, O'Brien, Dabol, you have Bruce, Hughes, Robson and Scholes.
u so toxic, i love it 😂😂
BB owes his success to Brady! Losing record before Brady, and struggling since!