Great video -- I am jealous that you got a PCIe board to experiment with! Very interesting that you can set to PCIe 3.0 in the config. So many possibilities here. :)
You're the only UA-camr that makes a 20 minute video that has all the information I was looking for in a well presented fashion without any obvious bias towards a brand or product at all. Thanks!
@@omar10wahabwhy kissass? what benefit would they have from kissing ass? altruism is a thing, and supporting content makers means more and better content.
So far, I've found this to be the best among the first wave of RPi 5 reviews. It goes into a lot of details without making the video long, repetitive and rambling. It's all to the point. 👍
Dear Raspberry Pi Foundation, After being a dedicated Raspberry Pi enthusiast for quite some time, I have now officially become a "Rockchip Boy." It's not an easy decision, and I want to express my gratitude for all the incredible work you've done with the Raspberry Pi series. The Raspberry Pi has been an amazing platform for learning, tinkering, and creating all sorts of exciting projects. But lately, I've found myself drawn to the versatility and power of Rockchip-based devices. Their performance and capabilities have opened up new possibilities for my projects and hobbies. While I'll always have a special place in my heart for the Raspberry Pi, it's time for me to explore this new path in the world of single-board computers. Thank you for all the inspiration and innovation you've brought to the community. I'll be watching your future developments with great interest, and who knows, maybe I'll return to the Raspberry Pi family one day. Wishing you continued success and growth. Sincerely, WurstPeterl certtified RockChip Boy
My Orange Pi 5 Plus has 3 full-sized HDMI ports (2 output and 1 input), 2 x 2.5Gbps ethernet ports, a full-sized 2280 M-key m.2 slot, an E-key m.2 slot for a network card, a type-c port with DP support, an IR receiver, removeable EMMC with modules available up to 256GB, build-in microphone, 3mm headphone/microphone jack, 40-pin gpio, and LCD and camera headers. The RK3588 with its Mali GPU is still much faster than the pi 5 and has a build-in 6 TOPS NPU for machine learning and memory options up to 16gb (32gb on the standard Orange Pi 5). I currently have it running desktop Debian 11 with KDE Plasma from a 500GB m.2 SSD with a Wi-Fi 6/BT 5.0 card. I hardly even notice that I'm using an SBC most of the time. Oh, and it's in stock.
One thing I've always been fascinated by is the NAS builds with pi that you've done. Ive felt that the previous pi models weren't sufficient in making a small or basic NAS but I think that will change with this model. Id love to see more videos on the topic, it's one of those things I think I'll never get bored of seeing.
I've watched 4 different (pre)reviews of the Pi 5 and once again, Jeff is gold standard for his reviews of SBCs. Thanks Jeff, you covered a lot more than the others. Thanks for the great (pre)review!
I really think they made a wise decision by trading efficiency for price. The general consumer really wont care about the difference in efficiency at this level of power consumption. The Pi appeal always was about being the underdog, and still getting the job done for less than a family dinner out.
@@megatronskneecap same, but I guess that all depends on the size of your family, and the type of food. With an average family size of 4 people, and eating at a reasonably priced chain sit-down restaurant... you will probably be down for $60... +tax and tip... ~$80-90
For arm there is a UEFI certification program called ARM SystemReady. There is a UEFI shim for this for the Pi3/4, it's needed to boot ESXi and Windows. It would be nice if there was a transition over that for the boot firmware.@@Caddy666
I am beyond thrilled for the additional I/O on the Pi 5. It's wild that you didn't need an entire video compiling kernels and all that to get simple PCIe devices running in any capacity. I have a pre-order in for the 4GB and all the relevant accessories... Can't wait! Great vid as always! All the info in one place and some nice comparisons.
If only they crammed an m.2 connector in there, would have been absolutely perfect. But still a 2.5x improvement from the 4 is no joke considering just how capable the 4 is
@@pidojaspdpaidipashdisao572 All the stores i checked ARE still out of stock anyway, at least Canada. Gotta be like 2 or so Years straight at this point. And now they want to introduce another product? oof.
@pidojaspdpaidipashdisao572 honestly tho with inflation being what it is, the price might be more consistent than it looks at a glance (I mean compare it to the cost of eating out back in the day vs now).
If it had a NVME I would be positive about this release. But now they remove hardware acceleration of video, they still have those really bad mini hdmi ports, and it needs a fan and heatsink (why not just put it on as standard then?) That adapter will be like $40 probably for NVME, and make it like one inch thicker.
The only thing I love more than the raspberry pi is Jeff’s excellent, comprehensive video providing us with all the info we need to know. I cannot wait to order the new unit ❤
Am premptively buying a POE switch before the hat comes out, but does anyone know what would the watt needed for it or compatible models if you wanted to hook up 4 of them?? Would 30W per port be enough
The ability to use pcie right from the board makes me want something like a SATA controller hat. Even if it's slow per port, the ability to run either dual HDDs or sata SSDs in either form factor would make for a cool budget NAS build.
@@LtdJorge True. That single 3.0 lane is actually quite good bandwidth. I mentioned it being slow per port because they don't have to stop at 4 ports. An 8-port SATA controller could be used, but I think just 2 really fast ones or maybe 3 would be plenty.
Having dealt with both the rpi4 and rock pi stuff for work for a while in sizable numbers the real difference is community, stability and support. The non rpi stuff looks great on paper but the downsides rapidly became apparent as soon as something didnt work as expected.
This is what I worried about as well, having used none of them so far. - It's just because the Raspberry Pi has become THE one in the kind of category of computers that it's so much more widely used and known, automatically increasing the support for it. - I almost decided to just bypass the RPi as "my first one" to a more powerful board, but then I didn't know if I would understand the lesser-known ones. Besides, I should have tried at least one RPi. Probably always useful for something.
preciseley the community makes the difference they do all the legwork they support it they adopt it its just a shame that for the pi 4 pi foundation decided to favour its industry partners wou would keep anything they do with it under nda and tight restrictions and contribute NOTHING back to the community
@@michaelmonstar4276 This very much depends on your use case. I feel a lot of people buy these micro PCs and they end up in the cupboard, own personal one certainly has. Unless you have a specific use case (GPIO etc)a normal computer / laptop or something like a intel NUC or gigbyte brix is often a better option.
Agreed! I’ll take well supported but not as performant any day. When you start hitting $130-$180 I start questioning the value vs. just running VMs on larger and way more performant hardware at that point.
Good lord, the Pi 1 is so obnoxiously slow looking back on it from the lens of today. The OG pi found it's most use for me as a VPN server before I had a comprehensive homelab.
dont waste your money on rpi or any sbc, get a secondhand mini pc's like hp or dells, its old but its still more powerful than these sbcs, plus the power consumption difference is negligible.
If the RPI5 would have launched a year ago it would have been huge, right now i feel like it is on the middle of everything because we have things like the RK3588/S and the Rk3566 covering the rear (The Orange PI 3B gives you a M.2 slot for as low as $30 to play around a single pcie lane). Even RISC-V is starting to put up a fight as the Lichee was already outperforming the RPI4. Not to mention AllWinner new socs that has a dual A78 + Hexa A55.
Stay far away from AllWinner SOCs. In my experience, they heat up quite a bit and usually have bugs(looking at the H6 which had PCIE, but you couldn't access it. At least not with Armbian).
At the moment it feels like the only reason to buy a pi is the software support. The alternatives all seem to be lacking (usually only having a couple of distros available) whereas the pi had direct support from multiple distributions. Given this pi only just catches up to the competition in performance and isn't much cheaper then if one of the competitors actually managed to get better software support they would be a much better alternative.
That's the problem, the alternatives never will, I don't know why but they just don't seem interested. You would think that they would want to jump on that but I guess it costs a lot of money.
If you don't care about all the GPIO and PCIe externals, and 3rd-party gizmos, then other SBCs work just fine. I love my Khadas VIM4 and it has 8GB of RAM
@@MrGamelover23 I’d bet that’s largely a fixed cost too, and that the Raspberry Pi can spread it out over more units. The competition probably isn’t seeing a market for hobbyist SBC’s that split the difference and are neither the best supported (since they won’t match rPi overnight) nor the best performance value.
@@chrisg6091 Exactly this. The PI has lost it's way. It's neither cheap, nor a viable solution for most use cases. Why buy a PI when you can buy a celeron MINI PC that does more for less out of the box?
The question I think everybody is asking is why they kept the awful micro-HDMI plugs. They should have gone to full size. Having one displayport and one HDMI also would have been cool. But in general I'm happy that they worked hard to keep the price reasonable.
Id liked to ser a display or mini display port, even could be cheaper because licenses. Lenovo's thinkcenters have no HDMI and with display port is enough.
Yea, i mean, if they want it to be as small as possible, then why put USB-A instead of USB-C? And if they want the compatibility, then there really is no reason to use micro-hdmi... Its just such a strange setup...
My guess is the weight of hdmi chords may have had a tendency to damage ports given the lightweight of the sbc. Choosing to go the micro hdmi may server as a breakway, cutting down the tendency of broke ports. However, that's just a guess. It's also easier to serve the part of the community that needs dual display options for projects dealing with a second screen given the size of full sized hdmi ports. Going with two full sized ports would cut into the sbc's real estate and it would either suffer space issues for other chips and circuitry and or heat issues
$80 feels like we're back to "just buy a cheap NUC-like for a DPU" but for price and power reasons now too. The Pi has never been a performance monster, it's winning feature is software support for a low power board (courtesy UK taxpayer funding), but now we're at the point of effectively mandatory active cooling and 5w power supplies, the gap is closing between Pis and the world's most ubiquitous platform again, old and/or cheap x86_64 PCs.
@@ryecatcher25 Or literally any flavor of Linux under the sun. Used "Optiplex Micro" are crashing out at ~$110 maxed out with a 7th gen i7 and 16gb RAM, 4x the performance cap for similar power draws idle and S3 vs the Pi's idle and max, lower specs than that are reliably sub-$50. If you really need GPIO ESP32-S3s are ~$7 since China accidentally flooded out the market on those, their USB return speeds are fast enough to be used as a capture device, and they have almost the same GPIO selection. Putting the two together is eco friendly since you're recycling old hardware with minimal power draw, good for your wallet since you're getting more for less, and still getting all the features of a Pi.
I agree - if you are looking for a small NUC, there are better options for the same price after you factor in the board, the adapter, active cooling and a case. I also wouldn't print my own case unless I plan on using ABS. If you print a case with PLA, I doubt it would last long due to high temperatures causing warping. That being said, I loved it back when the Pi was only about 1amp. It could easily be run 100% solar powered and a battery when no solar was available. Now there are other alternatives for that market as well. It feels like the Pi family is not the same Pi that I fell in love with.
The reason why you can't playback 4K video is likely because the browser on the pi is forcing the x264 codec which is easier to decode, youtube doesn't offer the 4K data stream in this codec. Same thing happens when you install the x264ify extension on your pc.
Really glad to see the Pi 5 having more PC-alike features natively like a power button, a PWM fan header and USB-PD! I'm completely fine with my Pi 4, but I'm debating whether or not I want to use something like the Rock 5B or the Pi 5 instead when I'm upgrading to a completely new system in the future. Probably just depends on what hardware connections I need at this point ^^'
The raspberry PI has lost sense of its purpose. It was supposed to be cheap. The speed was just supposed to be the icing on the cake, but low price so you could use it on projects that didn't need much processing power. was supposed to be the goal.
This was so thorough. Usually for stuff like this I’d have to go and find the answers to my questions individually. You’ve covered everything I needed to know all in one video. Well done!
In my experience, this use case has never been reliable, due to a mixture of issues ranging from microSD card corruption, to dodgy UAS support for external boot drives, unreliable USB-ethernet adapter performance etc.
@@tomfahey2823 The PCI-E port on the board would let ya connect a 4x port NIC and then use the Pis internal Gigabit as the +1 though, no USB Ethernet adapters needed If Jeff can get 6Gb on a 10Gb NIC that should translate to full 1Gb on 5 ports at least somewhat
@@tbthegr81 Yes, but that's not really an upgrade on the Pi 4 Compute Module then, is it? And you still have the problem of unreliable storage media. This is why I was hoping for more PCIe lanes and/or NVMe, or at least eMMC support.
SBCs with a double port (for ingress and outgress) still are way better solutions usually. 8 port gigabit switch is a pittance these days, no reason to make it expensive in a specialised hat.
@@tomfahey2823 I've had extremely reliable Sata to USB operation and uptime. But did have to experiment a little with USB hubs as they would run for weeks then randomly crash requiring a reboot
I still think dropping the full size HDMI port for 2 smaller ones was a mistake on the 4b. I was hoping it could get support for dual video out via Type-C connector like they have commonly on docks. Heres hoping that they update the Zero as well because Orange Pi's version of it slaps HARD. I hope that RISC-V becomes viable in my lifetime.
They really should just make the USB-C port fully functional with data and video (DP), and drop one or both micro-HDMI connectors, and maybe have a single full-size HDMI. Sure, the dongles are more expensive, but they're way more ubiquitous. Maybe a special CM5/Zero could come out with a single USB-C connection for some real minimalist projects.
@@khyoyeon554that’d be really awesome; a USB C monitor would be able to provide a single cable for everything (DisplayPort, a USB hub, audio, full power etc etc)
Thanks - I think you covered pretty much everything. Hopefully the Pi5a or something will have 2.5Gbit network builtin, just hope they use something saner and more plug/play than that crappy RTL8169 chip
@@spamuman To give credit to the PI foundation, you are able to preorder the PI 5 at those prices right now at multiple different retailers. While I agree it probably wont stick around, I was able to bye a PI 4 about a month ago from Adafruit at MSRP
@@25566 the demand rose, so the price did because the people making them and selling them know dipshits will pay for it. If you won't someone else will
@@25566 I do feel like they're moving too far into the performance field, and are losing sight of people who just need a cheap and not neccesarily powerful computer. I use Pis for home assistant, and a pi 3 is capable of running Home Assistant easily. I do hope Pi 4 does not get discontinued for a good while.
Hi Orange shirt Jeff! This is a great summary. The pace is just right and no unnecessary details has been discussed. In the next video maybe you cover OS’s on the PI5 and the usefulness as a desktop computer. Greetings from the Netherlands.
This was awesome to see, most important for me though is the improved manufacturing simplicity, fingers crossed it finally fixes the supply issues. Where i am RP4 B is still 130eur on Amazon & 100eur on official RPI suppliers.
I don't think the supply chain issues had anything at all to do with manufacturing. This will likely reduce production line setup and operational costs and improve yields, all of which helps keep prices down, but if you've had any experience buying electronic components in the past 4 years it's pretty clear why companies like the Raspberry Pi Foundation have had supply issues. It's component supply that is the problem. Lowering manufacturing costs isn't going to make more components magically appear on the market.
@@badger47-n3c Thank you very much, but I don't need it. I'm just here to express my opinion. that some distributors think that right now is still a mining boom and chips shortage.
It would be great to see Raspberry pi to create a Pi 500 with this new hardware. I personally love the Pi 400 for being a console management PC, but it desperately needs additional USB ports and incorporating a pci into the Pi 400 form factor would be incredibly helpful.
This was a very informative and condensed overview of the new RP5. I very much appreciate your analysis that goes beyond "it's better." The why and how goes a long way. Looking forward to more of your content.
13:20 UA-cam is not blocking that option because you are on pios, but because 4k youtube is only supported via VP9 and AV1, which the RPi5 still doesn't have. UA-cam only supports h264 up to 1080p (and h265 not at all) for compatibility with old devices and devices that refuse to support the newer standards (which is why it's so strange the pi still doesn't support vp9 and av1).
We need to start adding the Intel N100 to those comparisons. Efficiency, video playback, io, pcie are very competitive... yes it's usually a bit bigger but there's tons of applications where the size difference is insignificant, the x86 platform is a huge bonus on compatibility (forget about kernel hacks for universal pcie compatibility) and the actual market price and availability have been more tempting on the n100s than the Pis.
If we are talking about intel's announced horse-creek, then why not. But anything based on x86-64, no thank you. This is like using a massive anchor as a door stopper. - PS: Somebody replied, i should reevalute by presenting shiny n100 wattage numbers. That person somehow forgot to mention, that the n100 typically needs a big heatsink and even active coolers to prevent down throttling. The greater heat output is inherent in x86-64 designs no matter what workarounds Intel's engineers tried for over a decade now. The x86-64 complex needs more transistors for an instruction compared to the arm or risc-v isa. And more transistors involved for one instruction inevitably means more power consumption. - Also that person somehow forgot, that intel tries to mitigate their isa disadvantage by producing their SoC chips at a smaller node than the pi and popular risc-v SoCs. In the case of the n100 the used lithography step is intel 7. The PI 5 gets produced at 16 nm and current RISC-V even bigger. So when you compare do it under fair conditions and don't hold back the facts.
I'm so excited to see that this costs as much as a second hand Lenovo tiny with 8GB of RAM and SSD. Yeah, yeah the lenovo uses 35W and it's bigger, but at least it can be saved from the landfill and doesn't corrupt your storage since it also comes with the right PSU.
Great video Jeff! Information dense but still nice to watch. I also like the Dutch t-shirt Do you also have information on what happens to overheating when underclocking the chip? The latest Intel chips seem to show that temperature scales exponentially with clockspeed so maybe underclocking might be a solution
Looks like a great foundation for a pi500 computer: faster USB, SD, PD support, more power, southbridge chip, RTC and a power button. I wonder if this is really what they're after.
This is one of your best videos, Jeff. I'm still a Rock 5 admirer for its 8 cores, but I'm hoping the price is going down soon. It's good that the Raspberry Pi 5 has the double of the speed for 5 dollars more. It will probably push the others to reduce prices and launch better models. The case is a cool addition, something that was needed. Let's see what will come up in 2024.
I noticed in someone else's video that the memory resistor pads are all connected to the same nodes, so they can't be doing anything in the pi.. you're the first to confirm to me that it is just a visual indication of what model it is.. I guess I can put my sharpie away and stop marking model numbers on the top of the ethernet ports!! This is a nice touch!
Wow the amount of computing power in the area of a credit card is amazing. My only complaint is very few of the accessories for the Pi4 fit the Pi5. Which means I'll have to buy everything new again.
Yay, thanks so much for an excellent in-dept video, Jeff. I read the official Pi blog this morning and just knew you'd have some content ready so left it to enjoy this evening - really appreciate all the work you put into these!
13:14 UA-cam allows your browser to choose between H.264 and VP9 video codecs for anything up to 1080p, but only streams in VP9 for anything higher than 1080p. Normally, your browser would fall back to software decoding if the codec that's currently used isn't supported by the hardware, but maybe the browser in Raspberry Pi OS is specifically compiled to never use software decoding for performance reasons.
One thing i would've liked them to do, as a different model option ofc, is adding a direct M.2 slot to the board. Considering how thin m.2 ssd's are, i can totally imagine adding that port to the back of the board. I'm just guessing it, but the size would barely increase with that, and an m.2 ssd is basically the same price (or even cheaper) as similar sized sd card. (Also ofc it had to be compatible with those older m.2's, not the 'up-to-date' Long ones, as they are longer than the board)
There's one thing I would really like to see from the Pi foundation to make the RPi5 worthwhile to me: actual datasheets/TRMs for the BCM-2712 and the RP-1 chip. The pi foundation has never done well here with their SBCs in the past, but the RP2040's datasheet is excellent, so there's some hope here. The various rockchip SBCs are a lot better here since you can actually get TRMs for their socs (even if its a little ... unofficial, shall we say).
I think the lack of that is more to external suppliers than the foundation. A lot comes under NDA. As you point out the rp2040 really shines on documentation, but that thing is completely made in house. I expect to see a lot of documentation on the rp1 but I wouldn't expect much on the new Broadcom cpu. But I blame Broadcom for that. Even your comparison is too non official documentation which isn't a fair comparison
something that blew my mind while working as a contractor (on a Rockchip SoC) is that you can get them to make custom chip packages like stacked die, and getting a TRM *still* like pulling teeth. I don't even know if we managed to get one, had to reverse engineer register status bits for my driver until they sent screenshots from the 1000+ page TRM we weren't given.
@@bzuidgeest ultimately, it's the pi foundation's choice of which soc to use -- theoretically, they could go with something like a TI Sitara AM69 (that's just a random choice of an SoC that's well documented publicly by comparison, I'm not suggesting that they should or shouldn't use that particular chip). At least _some_ of the rockchip parts have officially accessible TRMs (although I think they're incomplete from a cursory glance, which isn't necessarily unexpected), and as far as I understand the rockchip parts don't have a crucial coprocessor that controls the boot sequence and is almost(?) completely undocumented.
that said, I do expect and hope for great things from the RP-1 as far as documentation goes. I'm hoping they also sell it as a higher-end microcontroller
@@ShinyQuagsire ouch -- not even under NDA? That honestly sounds worse than a lot of the other cpu vendors -- I'd assume that most of them would view you as important enough to give a TRM if they view you as important enough to do custom packaging for
I just got a raspberry pi 5, but I have never used any raspberry pi devices. I downloaded the software to a SD card but it's not powering on after I hit the power button. I am trying to use it for my 3d printer with a touch screen display. I can't figure out what I am missing or doing wrong. Any advice
Visita la página oficial de Raspberry. Hay mucha información y foros ahí. Empieza probando con otra fuente de voltaje (power adapter). Luego, asegúrate de haber seleccionado Pi 5 a la hora de instalar el software, etc. También puedes conectar algún dispositivo USB en algún puerto USB para ver si la energía está entrando a la tarjeta al presionar el botón de start. Saludos desde Mérida Yucatán México.
nice to see a new pi with most of the drawbacks fixed. this gives me hope the pi ecosystem will be around for a while. looking forward to the release. thanks for the breakdown!
I don't think they fixed the polyfuse issue, as the pi becomes more powerful and costly, they should seriously consider putting some form of over-voltage protection.
Thanks for the great overview. From the pcb it looks like a number of components are still through hole mounted - the pins are just cut flush with the bottom of the board. This is a good thing though for sockets etc as they are stronger than smd mounted.
at 13:50 - installing steam breaks the desktop env because it automatically installs 32bit version drivers or sth like that maybe vulkan, which were not designed for a pi's architecture.
The Raspberry Pi foundation seriously needs to get their act together. 4+ years of development and this is what we get? Where are the USB-C stuff like DP alt mode, Power Delivery, and so on? PCIe x1 is a nice addition, but not as nice as many of the competitors offering x4. Micro HDMI in 2023 is a slap in the face. And there's even two? They're lucky their software support is great, because otherwise I don't see why they should even exist anymore.
For 4 years I have been crying that the Pi4 didn't have VP9 decoding for UA-cam. And now 4 years later with the Pi5 they are still advertising H.265?! What am I supposed to do with that? Decode BluRay? Where is VP9/AV1? And a single lane of PCIe with a proprietary connector instead of 4xPCIe on m.2? Honestly after 4 years this upgrade (5A Power delivery, CPU upgrade, crypto extensions, experimental PCIe3, RTC) is nice but it's still a disappointment.
Here's what I want to know: have they addressed EMI with the Pi 5? In all of my use, there were SERIOUS interference problems running USB 3 devices, especially interfering with WiFi and USB 2 devices. I found I needed to use USB extender cables to use USB mice, and other devices like my Sonoff Zigbee controller board. Very annoying! It seems as though they have (quite rightly) put a lot of thought into making the Pi 5's power management more sophisticated, and I'm hoping that the EMI issues have been beaten as well!
I know they were working on some EMI issues with PCIe in particular (which is also probably one of the reasons I had some issues with my early prototype adapter). I think they found some shielding was necessary to help with that (on the cable), and I know they spent a great deal of time on compliance testing for RF/EMI (probably more than they used to!).
Pi 5 looks really cool, though I will be waiting for a while to get it. Already have 2 Pi 4s doing all the work I need so far. Looking forward to what Raspberry Pi foundation does for the Zero W series of Pi's.
Sometimes, I feel envy of you guys. Always get cool stuff before time. I have been trying to get hold of 2-3 Raspberry PI 4 B 8GB for almost 7 months now but couldn't get even one. All the official partners always show "SOLD OUT" as if it is part of the product name. I hope PI 5 availability would be better than before and I'll also be able to build a PI cluster and learn few things. Your videos are informative as always. Love to see some new projects from you in Agriculture & Healthcare domain.
Now all the pi4s hiding under the ground are reaching the surface on old price as it was before the covid blackout. You can surely get as many as you want now.
I fully expect the price to exceed 500$ this time around -.- As for myself, I switched over to Mini PC / thin clients a while ago. Way more power for what's basically the same price (or even cheaper) and ever so slightly higher power consumption.
For my admittedly casual use case the new Video Core VII was what made me want one. A more powerful and capable GPU has been a loooong time coming, the Pi4 always seemed a little mismatched with it's GPU.
Amazing video explaining everything. My main concern is if I'll be able to buy it. Everytime I try to get the 8GB Pi4 it is always out of stock except for places with scalper prices. I hope doesn't happen the same with the 8GB Pi5 😔
Raspberry Pi said that they are keeping Pi 5s out of industry hands until the new year, so hopefully that means a little more supply for the rest of us
Even though I have a two Proxmox machines already, I still use Raspberry Pi, Radxa Rock Pi, Orange Pi on my homelab. They play an important role like DNS, network management, monitoring, etc... I'll more likely stay on RPi 4, Radxa Rock 4. RPi 5 is interesting since my priority is booting using NVME, but the features of Pi 4 is enough, but again the PCIE in the Pi 5 is tempting.
Pi was and always should be a teaching and learning tool. I'm glad they are able to find reliable sourcing because I was so worried that stock outages were meant to kill off the Pi. I guess specialty chipsets are meant to avoid future outages. I was looking at the schematics but I wasn't able to see if the COM chipset is the bottleneck like it was for the 3 and 4. Have they removed that issue? EDIT: I'm assuming they will release smaller memory PI5s as you showed there are 8, 4, 2, and 1 Gig memory resistor points on the card.
The supply shortages were industry wide and not limited to the foundation. They worked hard to keep it going. Much of the supply went to business customers. Some people complain about that, but I see that as very good. It gives them a stable source of revenue to make us better boards. It also forces high quality os support because companies like stable software in their machines. And they also like long term availability, which again also serves us.
It's not gone. It's just relegated to two (currently empty) 2.5mm pads between the micro-HDMI and cam/disp ports. So you could solder in your own cable if you wanted it that badly. Just like on the Pi Zero. You'll still need some other method for getting sound out though.
Pi cares more about a stable eco system. It's not about the latest greatest, for that you need to look elsewhere. For great community, tools and support and long term availability, you choose pi.
That's basically gone for a large portion of people. At that stage its easier on the user to either get a GBS C or some sort of de-scaler.(or if they're compatible with this, one of those Raspberry Pi Scart things.) Its not the worst thing ever that its gone. Just makes it the less option for certain projects when the availability of parts are a issue. @@ajshell2
Instead of adding m.2 with 4xPCIe lanes, like pretty much every other SBC, 4 years later Raspberry is still stuck at a single PCIe lane with a proprietary connector. Huge disappointment actually.
I just had a look on Amazon at the Orange Pi 5. Great price, great specs, but the reviews are telling. There is next to no community. To get things that the RPi community takes for granted, such as an easy bug-free install and multiple working distros, just aren't there. Also, the surrounding ecosystem for cases, HATs, etc. are just not there for the Orange Pi 5. The competition in the hardware space has never been keener (something I'm very pleased about since the dearth period from the start of the pandemic), but the competitors will have to eventually realise that for success, you need a lot more than just good-specced hardware.
Glad it's faster but sad there's not more in terms of IO... I was hoping to make it in a decent NAS with 5-10Gb network but that's not going to fly with just a measly PCI 2.0x1 I'm also never trusting USB to serve my storage Also new drinking game everytime Jeff says "We'll get to that later" :p
@@estusflask982yeah my hope was the pi5 would enable 1 nvme storage at >1250MB/s and 1 10Gbe network and a couple SATAs.. I'd use the nvme as cache and saturate the network... aaaanyway another 2-4 years maybe haha
I've had my Rpi 3 for like 5-6 years now, running 24/7 without a single hiccup.... just bought an RPi 4 B cause of the better hardware, and I still haven't swapped them because of how goddamn reliable that model 3 B is. Yeah, I got it in 2016 I think that would make it 7 years running non-stop for 7 years continuously holy shitballs dude. Raspberry pi's are something else honestly. The reliability and longevity of these things absolutely blew me away...
My technical skills are such that you might as well be speaking a hybrid of Hungarian and Inuit, but I love your videos! Watching yours and Chris's back-to-back gives us the whole picture, and is a lot of fun. Can't wait till I can get up to the St Louis Micro Center to snag one of these (I'm a little bit south of STL).
I'm not optimistic about the availability of Pi5. For years they've promised to solve the shortage issue with Pi4 and CM4 and they couldn't keep their promises. What has changed? What makes me believe them this time? Raspberry Pi the company started with a noble goal; to help young learners get their hands on a very affordable computer but ever since big companies showed their interest in using the Pi in industrial solutions, Raspberry Pi seemed to have deviated from that goal to serve the big tech as the supplies for the past years have been almost completely preserved for the big customers rather than the individuals.
All due to the pandemic and chip shortages...which is virtually over. That kind of complication has never happened before. It wasn't just them. Vehicle manufacturers have had brand new vehicles parked in fields for a year or 2 waiting on chips/parts
No idea. No idea who these are marketed towards either. Schools and budget nerds like me aren't going anywhere near this thing. I thought about it and then went nah.
There are through hole components. Plenty of them. It's just that they don't protrude on the solder side of the PCB. These are still Through Hole as they require Plated Through Holes in the PCB. They are however not soldered with wave or hand soldering like traditional TH components but soldered during the SMD reflow process. This means they still need to be placed by those fancy robots. They also have to be resistant to reflow temperatures. Unlike traditional TH components.
It would be interesting to see if the RP1 can also be programmed as kind of a co-processor, handling some real-time tasks (like stepping a stepper motor, or reading a rotary encoder signal) without the need for a real-time OS running on the AP. (Or if some of the PIO goodness also made its way into the RP1 silicon)
According to the documentation, the RP1 does feature two ARM Cortex M3 cores - now the question becomes: is it user programmable? :) (datasheets.raspberrypi.com/rp1/rp1-peripherals.pdf page 5)
Im curious if the onboard wifi actually is more compatible with WIFI6. The PI4 chip will connect to 5ghz networks but it does not seam to like DFS channels at all. I have a WIFI6 router here at work and the PI4 will not connect at all to is. It actually does not even see the 5ghz networks at all.
@@JeffGeerling Check to see what channel your WIFI6 router is using. Only some of the channels are in the DFS range. My PI4 can connect just fine as long as the range is not DFS channels. DFS channels are 52, 56, 60, 64, 100, 104, 108, 112, 116, 120, 124, 128, 132, 136, 140, and 144 Mine specifically was running channel 120
Awesome overview of the new specs and performance.
👍
👍
👍
Nice video
Nice
Great video -- I am jealous that you got a PCIe board to experiment with! Very interesting that you can set to PCIe 3.0 in the config. So many possibilities here. :)
I think Red shirt Jeff may be at play here "Lets do this and see what happens" "NO Red shirt J.... oh wait it worked?"
Wow. It is nice to see you here too. I am a big fan of EC 😊
Wow you're here too, EC. Hello!
I think you should get one to play with too! You are the SBC guru imho.
I think we need to "take a closer look"!
You're the only UA-camr that makes a 20 minute video that has all the information I was looking for in a well presented fashion without any obvious bias towards a brand or product at all. Thanks!
You don't see a PI Bias? Blind much?
@@viewitnow3539 he pointed out competition on ARM and RISC-V. Deaf much?
The reigning king of Pi!! Dude, you killed it on this video. This had to take sooooo long....and wow was it worth it!
Hey Chuck! Just wanted to say, you got me into cybersec and I'm forever grateful!
Heh, it was a bit of a journey :D
It took so long, as people were probably hammering raspberry pi’s website, waiting for the pi 5 since 2022
how do you test stats on macbook terminal while booting the pi?its impossible @@JeffGeerling
Can it run Crysis?
The time and effort you put into these recaps is unmatched. Thanks Jeff!
Kiss as
@@omar10wahabwhy kissass? what benefit would they have from kissing ass? altruism is a thing, and supporting content makers means more and better content.
Absolutely! Jeff did amazing
So far, I've found this to be the best among the first wave of RPi 5 reviews. It goes into a lot of details without making the video long, repetitive and rambling. It's all to the point. 👍
Can't wait for this to get into the hands of the general public and developers.
it feels like we just got the 4, even though it was years ago
If you say so
There was a brief moment where I was able to buy Pi 4s off the shelf at Micro Center. Then 2020 happened and that was all out the window.
@@JeffGeerling They seem to be pretty obtainable at the moment, but that's a recent development of course.
That s because it was available just for huge companies and scalpers.
We never got the 4 though. It was vaporware for the plebs that it was supposedly made for in the first place
Dear Raspberry Pi Foundation,
After being a dedicated Raspberry Pi enthusiast for quite some time, I have now officially become a "Rockchip Boy." It's not an easy decision, and I want to express my gratitude for all the incredible work you've done with the Raspberry Pi series. The Raspberry Pi has been an amazing platform for learning, tinkering, and creating all sorts of exciting projects.
But lately, I've found myself drawn to the versatility and power of Rockchip-based devices. Their performance and capabilities have opened up new possibilities for my projects and hobbies. While I'll always have a special place in my heart for the Raspberry Pi, it's time for me to explore this new path in the world of single-board computers.
Thank you for all the inspiration and innovation you've brought to the community. I'll be watching your future developments with great interest, and who knows, maybe I'll return to the Raspberry Pi family one day.
Wishing you continued success and growth.
Sincerely,
WurstPeterl
certtified RockChip Boy
Me too, I am an Orange Pi boy.
Orange Pi 5 is a very nice little board!
the rockchips are very cool
Well,rockship is still better for android support.
@@JeffGeerling Little board? Love how you downplay it because you are sponsored by Raspi.
My Orange Pi 5 Plus has 3 full-sized HDMI ports (2 output and 1 input), 2 x 2.5Gbps ethernet ports, a full-sized 2280 M-key m.2 slot, an E-key m.2 slot for a network card, a type-c port with DP support, an IR receiver, removeable EMMC with modules available up to 256GB, build-in microphone, 3mm headphone/microphone jack, 40-pin gpio, and LCD and camera headers. The RK3588 with its Mali GPU is still much faster than the pi 5 and has a build-in 6 TOPS NPU for machine learning and memory options up to 16gb (32gb on the standard Orange Pi 5). I currently have it running desktop Debian 11 with KDE Plasma from a 500GB m.2 SSD with a Wi-Fi 6/BT 5.0 card. I hardly even notice that I'm using an SBC most of the time.
Oh, and it's in stock.
One thing I've always been fascinated by is the NAS builds with pi that you've done.
Ive felt that the previous pi models weren't sufficient in making a small or basic NAS but I think that will change with this model.
Id love to see more videos on the topic, it's one of those things I think I'll never get bored of seeing.
Yes i feel the same way.
I've been using the pi4 as nas for some time now.
I can always go for another storage-related video :)
@@JeffGeerlingdo the petabyte pi challenge again
yeah I had a pi 4 NAS and it had tons of problems, really hope this new pi works well.
I've watched 4 different (pre)reviews of the Pi 5 and once again, Jeff is gold standard for his reviews of SBCs. Thanks Jeff, you covered a lot more than the others.
Thanks for the great (pre)review!
No problem! I have already watched a few this morning but I'm beginning to peter out, time for some sleep!
it was SO comprehensive!
@@JeffGeerlingSame here. Commenting on yours @ 3:20 am. Glad to be retired for sleeping into the morning hours. BR 😎
I really think they made a wise decision by trading efficiency for price. The general consumer really wont care about the difference in efficiency at this level of power consumption. The Pi appeal always was about being the underdog, and still getting the job done for less than a family dinner out.
I get the feeling they got rid of the headphone jack for cost reasons too, but for me that's a deal-breaker.
$75 isn't a family dinner where I come from lol.
It's all about the cost now, that's where the competition is.
@@megatronskneecap same, but I guess that all depends on the size of your family, and the type of food. With an average family size of 4 people, and eating at a reasonably priced chain sit-down restaurant... you will probably be down for $60... +tax and tip... ~$80-90
@@jong2359 Welp scalpers have already got their hands on it. Pimoroni is sold out cold.
Great video and review Jeff!
Thanks David!
haha, i see new raspberry pi 5 diy flipper zero video coming XD
@@JeffGeerling will it ditch its weird boot loading and start using a standard bios at some point?
For arm there is a UEFI certification program called ARM SystemReady. There is a UEFI shim for this for the Pi3/4, it's needed to boot ESXi and Windows. It would be nice if there was a transition over that for the boot firmware.@@Caddy666
@@JeffGeerlingwill the pikvm work with pi5?
I'm glad you made a video on this! I wouldn't have found out about this nearly as quickly otherwise.
i was gonna comment this!
Same!
Dito
I am beyond thrilled for the additional I/O on the Pi 5. It's wild that you didn't need an entire video compiling kernels and all that to get simple PCIe devices running in any capacity. I have a pre-order in for the 4GB and all the relevant accessories... Can't wait!
Great vid as always! All the info in one place and some nice comparisons.
If only they crammed an m.2 connector in there, would have been absolutely perfect. But still a 2.5x improvement from the 4 is no joke considering just how capable the 4 is
like on the bottom side.... Where there almost NO COMPONENTS anymore.
Let's not push for this to be a full pc. The price is already getting a bit too high for what it's supposed to be.
@@pidojaspdpaidipashdisao572 All the stores i checked ARE still out of stock anyway, at least Canada. Gotta be like 2 or so Years straight at this point. And now they want to introduce another product? oof.
@pidojaspdpaidipashdisao572 honestly tho with inflation being what it is, the price might be more consistent than it looks at a glance (I mean compare it to the cost of eating out back in the day vs now).
If it had a NVME I would be positive about this release. But now they remove hardware acceleration of video, they still have those really bad mini hdmi ports, and it needs a fan and heatsink (why not just put it on as standard then?) That adapter will be like $40 probably for NVME, and make it like one inch thicker.
The only thing I love more than the raspberry pi is Jeff’s excellent, comprehensive video providing us with all the info we need to know. I cannot wait to order the new unit ❤
Am premptively buying a POE switch before the hat comes out, but does anyone know what would the watt needed for it or compatible models if you wanted to hook up 4 of them?? Would 30W per port be enough
Never had the opportunity to try out the pi 4, so the jump from my trusty pi 3 to the 5 should be quite the improvement for a home server :)
Wow, 3 to 5, that will definitely be mind blowing... just doing an apt update and apt upgrade is mind-bogglingly faster.
Same here, I can’t wait to get my hands on one
@@JeffGeerling Waiiiiiiiit one second right there does this mean that the Pi 5 can actually, reliably run games?
Still got a pi 1 on my shelf in a clear ish original case (2011.12) have see if it still powers up
Same here... never pulled the trigger on the Pi4, just pre-ordered the Pi5... my Pi3 is gasping for air now!! 😂
The ability to use pcie right from the board makes me want something like a SATA controller hat. Even if it's slow per port, the ability to run either dual HDDs or sata SSDs in either form factor would make for a cool budget NAS build.
At 2.0 it would be enough bandwidth to run 2 very fast enterprise HDDs like Exos, which are ~250MB/s. At 3.0, you could run 4.
wouldn't it be possible to have a bunch of sata connectors using a pcie to sata adapter ?
@@LtdJorge True. That single 3.0 lane is actually quite good bandwidth. I mentioned it being slow per port because they don't have to stop at 4 ports. An 8-port SATA controller could be used, but I think just 2 really fast ones or maybe 3 would be plenty.
@@neolordie: In theory you could have as many as you wanted, but you can't put more data through PCIe than it has bandwidth for. :)
@@jeschinstad oh didn't see the pcie 2.0 x1 lol, that's pretty bad
Thanks! Keep up the awesome work - you inspire us all!
Having dealt with both the rpi4 and rock pi stuff for work for a while in sizable numbers the real difference is community, stability and support. The non rpi stuff looks great on paper but the downsides rapidly became apparent as soon as something didnt work as expected.
This is what I worried about as well, having used none of them so far. - It's just because the Raspberry Pi has become THE one in the kind of category of computers that it's so much more widely used and known, automatically increasing the support for it. - I almost decided to just bypass the RPi as "my first one" to a more powerful board, but then I didn't know if I would understand the lesser-known ones. Besides, I should have tried at least one RPi. Probably always useful for something.
preciseley the community makes the difference they do all the legwork they support it they adopt it its just a shame that for the pi 4 pi foundation decided to favour its industry partners wou would keep anything they do with it under nda and tight restrictions and contribute NOTHING back to the community
@@michaelmonstar4276 This very much depends on your use case. I feel a lot of people buy these micro PCs and they end up in the cupboard, own personal one certainly has. Unless you have a specific use case (GPIO etc)a normal computer / laptop or something like a intel NUC or gigbyte brix is often a better option.
True, but if all your using one for is low power basic home computer/TV streaming device, the rivals are fine for that.
Agreed! I’ll take well supported but not as performant any day. When you start hitting $130-$180 I start questioning the value vs. just running VMs on larger and way more performant hardware at that point.
I think it might be time for me to get a new pie haha, I have a pi 1
Good lord, the Pi 1 is so obnoxiously slow looking back on it from the lens of today. The OG pi found it's most use for me as a VPN server before I had a comprehensive homelab.
dont waste your money on rpi or any sbc, get a secondhand mini pc's like hp or dells, its old but its still more powerful than these sbcs, plus the power consumption difference is negligible.
@@jongskie777what abort GPIO then?
@@mikkelkirketerp4884honestly, how many GPIO use cases do people use Pi’s for. Most of those can be solved with a far cheaper Arduino or similar.
@@mikkelkirketerp4884usb to gpio maybe?
If the RPI5 would have launched a year ago it would have been huge, right now i feel like it is on the middle of everything because we have things like the RK3588/S and the Rk3566 covering the rear (The Orange PI 3B gives you a M.2 slot for as low as $30 to play around a single pcie lane). Even RISC-V is starting to put up a fight as the Lichee was already outperforming the RPI4. Not to mention AllWinner new socs that has a dual A78 + Hexa A55.
Most importantly you can buy those sbc-s while good luck finding raspberry pi.
Stay far away from AllWinner SOCs. In my experience, they heat up quite a bit and usually have bugs(looking at the H6 which had PCIE, but you couldn't access it. At least not with Armbian).
Great job, Jeff. Really appreciate the comprehensive coverage. Exciting to see an updated version of the Pi too.
oh great now simple robots are putting the complex robots out of jobs now🤣🤣🤣
At the moment it feels like the only reason to buy a pi is the software support. The alternatives all seem to be lacking (usually only having a couple of distros available) whereas the pi had direct support from multiple distributions.
Given this pi only just catches up to the competition in performance and isn't much cheaper then if one of the competitors actually managed to get better software support they would be a much better alternative.
That's the problem, the alternatives never will, I don't know why but they just don't seem interested. You would think that they would want to jump on that but I guess it costs a lot of money.
If you don't care about all the GPIO and PCIe externals, and 3rd-party gizmos, then other SBCs work just fine. I love my Khadas VIM4 and it has 8GB of RAM
That problem has existed since the beginning and still the same today. Its why i gave up & just repurpose old laptops or NUCS for my home projects.
@@MrGamelover23 I’d bet that’s largely a fixed cost too, and that the Raspberry Pi can spread it out over more units.
The competition probably isn’t seeing a market for hobbyist SBC’s that split the difference and are neither the best supported (since they won’t match rPi overnight) nor the best performance value.
@@chrisg6091 Exactly this. The PI has lost it's way. It's neither cheap, nor a viable solution for most use cases. Why buy a PI when you can buy a celeron MINI PC that does more for less out of the box?
Can you send me the link of the raspberry PI PCIe adapter you used in 14:23 ?
The question I think everybody is asking is why they kept the awful micro-HDMI plugs. They should have gone to full size. Having one displayport and one HDMI also would have been cool.
But in general I'm happy that they worked hard to keep the price reasonable.
Id liked to ser a display or mini display port, even could be cheaper because licenses.
Lenovo's thinkcenters have no HDMI and with display port is enough.
It would not only have been cool but saved users money and stopped a lot of e-waste from being created.
Yea, i mean, if they want it to be as small as possible, then why put USB-A instead of USB-C? And if they want the compatibility, then there really is no reason to use micro-hdmi... Its just such a strange setup...
These connectors are the absolute worst. Video out via USB-C is a thing, that would've been sooooo much better.
My guess is the weight of hdmi chords may have had a tendency to damage ports given the lightweight of the sbc. Choosing to go the micro hdmi may server as a breakway, cutting down the tendency of broke ports. However, that's just a guess. It's also easier to serve the part of the community that needs dual display options for projects dealing with a second screen given the size of full sized hdmi ports.
Going with two full sized ports would cut into the sbc's real estate and it would either suffer space issues for other chips and circuitry and or heat issues
This will all be amazing if it actually becomes available at the MSRP.
Pi Hut has preorders open already!
*which will be sold out "should" they start shipping next month (tomorrow)*@@TheDigitizedSignPainter
RP5 Salesman of the Year! Nice vid, Jeff!
$80 feels like we're back to "just buy a cheap NUC-like for a DPU" but for price and power reasons now too. The Pi has never been a performance monster, it's winning feature is software support for a low power board (courtesy UK taxpayer funding), but now we're at the point of effectively mandatory active cooling and 5w power supplies, the gap is closing between Pis and the world's most ubiquitous platform again, old and/or cheap x86_64 PCs.
@@ryecatcher25 Or literally any flavor of Linux under the sun. Used "Optiplex Micro" are crashing out at ~$110 maxed out with a 7th gen i7 and 16gb RAM, 4x the performance cap for similar power draws idle and S3 vs the Pi's idle and max, lower specs than that are reliably sub-$50. If you really need GPIO ESP32-S3s are ~$7 since China accidentally flooded out the market on those, their USB return speeds are fast enough to be used as a capture device, and they have almost the same GPIO selection. Putting the two together is eco friendly since you're recycling old hardware with minimal power draw, good for your wallet since you're getting more for less, and still getting all the features of a Pi.
I agree - if you are looking for a small NUC, there are better options for the same price after you factor in the board, the adapter, active cooling and a case. I also wouldn't print my own case unless I plan on using ABS. If you print a case with PLA, I doubt it would last long due to high temperatures causing warping. That being said, I loved it back when the Pi was only about 1amp. It could easily be run 100% solar powered and a battery when no solar was available. Now there are other alternatives for that market as well. It feels like the Pi family is not the same Pi that I fell in love with.
The reason why you can't playback 4K video is likely because the browser on the pi is forcing the x264 codec which is easier to decode, youtube doesn't offer the 4K data stream in this codec. Same thing happens when you install the x264ify extension on your pc.
Really glad to see the Pi 5 having more PC-alike features natively like a power button, a PWM fan header and USB-PD! I'm completely fine with my Pi 4, but I'm debating whether or not I want to use something like the Rock 5B or the Pi 5 instead when I'm upgrading to a completely new system in the future. Probably just depends on what hardware connections I need at this point ^^'
Awesome overview of the new specs and performance. Can't wait to get my hands on one!
The raspberry PI has lost sense of its purpose. It was supposed to be cheap. The speed was just supposed to be the icing on the cake, but low price so you could use it on projects that didn't need much processing power. was supposed to be the goal.
They still make the pi zero and other previous versions
It did exactly that, why do you think you couldnt get a pi for a while
This was so thorough. Usually for stuff like this I’d have to go and find the answers to my questions individually. You’ve covered everything I needed to know all in one video. Well done!
With the improved I/O, this feels like it opens the way to a Pi-based *4+1 port* network router/switch in a single case.
In my experience, this use case has never been reliable, due to a mixture of issues ranging from microSD card corruption, to dodgy UAS support for external boot drives, unreliable USB-ethernet adapter performance etc.
@@tomfahey2823 The PCI-E port on the board would let ya connect a 4x port NIC and then use the Pis internal Gigabit as the +1 though, no USB Ethernet adapters needed
If Jeff can get 6Gb on a 10Gb NIC that should translate to full 1Gb on 5 ports at least somewhat
@@tbthegr81 Yes, but that's not really an upgrade on the Pi 4 Compute Module then, is it? And you still have the problem of unreliable storage media.
This is why I was hoping for more PCIe lanes and/or NVMe, or at least eMMC support.
SBCs with a double port (for ingress and outgress) still are way better solutions usually. 8 port gigabit switch is a pittance these days, no reason to make it expensive in a specialised hat.
@@tomfahey2823 I've had extremely reliable Sata to USB operation and uptime. But did have to experiment a little with USB hubs as they would run for weeks then randomly crash requiring a reboot
I still think dropping the full size HDMI port for 2 smaller ones was a mistake on the 4b. I was hoping it could get support for dual video out via Type-C connector like they have commonly on docks. Heres hoping that they update the Zero as well because Orange Pi's version of it slaps HARD. I hope that RISC-V becomes viable in my lifetime.
They really should just make the USB-C port fully functional with data and video (DP), and drop one or both micro-HDMI connectors, and maybe have a single full-size HDMI. Sure, the dongles are more expensive, but they're way more ubiquitous. Maybe a special CM5/Zero could come out with a single USB-C connection for some real minimalist projects.
@@khyoyeon554that’d be really awesome; a USB C monitor would be able to provide a single cable for everything (DisplayPort, a USB hub, audio, full power etc etc)
In your lifetime of course?? It's reaching the levels of the very first Pis now
@@aaroncarsonomg I need that badly.
Thanks - I think you covered pretty much everything. Hopefully the Pi5a or something will have 2.5Gbit network builtin, just hope they use something saner and more plug/play than that crappy RTL8169 chip
I can't wait to not buy one or get one at double msrp.
Let's hope they can ramp production quickly. The Pi 4 finally is back in stock. Sometimes. In some places! We'll see.
Very cool!
Starts at $60-$80... I really hope the shortage is over because that's probably the most any hobbyists will want to spend.
Those are imaginary numbers, sometimes I wonder why do people even bother with these MSRP prices..
It should be 39$ for the top spec, the pi used to be cheap..
@@spamuman To give credit to the PI foundation, you are able to preorder the PI 5 at those prices right now at multiple different retailers. While I agree it probably wont stick around, I was able to bye a PI 4 about a month ago from Adafruit at MSRP
@@25566 the demand rose, so the price did because the people making them and selling them know dipshits will pay for it. If you won't someone else will
@@25566 I do feel like they're moving too far into the performance field, and are losing sight of people who just need a cheap and not neccesarily powerful computer. I use Pis for home assistant, and a pi 3 is capable of running Home Assistant easily. I do hope Pi 4 does not get discontinued for a good while.
Hey Jeff! Great run-down! I really appreciate all of the testing you do to provide complete coverage.
Hi Orange shirt Jeff! This is a great summary. The pace is just right and no unnecessary details has been discussed. In the next video maybe you cover OS’s on the PI5 and the usefulness as a desktop computer.
Greetings from the Netherlands.
This was awesome to see, most important for me though is the improved manufacturing simplicity, fingers crossed it finally fixes the supply issues.
Where i am RP4 B is still 130eur on Amazon & 100eur on official RPI suppliers.
I'm not getting my hopes up
I don't think the supply chain issues had anything at all to do with manufacturing. This will likely reduce production line setup and operational costs and improve yields, all of which helps keep prices down, but if you've had any experience buying electronic components in the past 4 years it's pretty clear why companies like the Raspberry Pi Foundation have had supply issues. It's component supply that is the problem. Lowering manufacturing costs isn't going to make more components magically appear on the market.
In my country, local distributor is selling it for 300 USD. So bad.
@@ajaka002 jesoooooos well I don't have any 4 or 5 but I think I have a 3 somewhere I could send you for free if you want.
@@badger47-n3c Thank you very much, but I don't need it. I'm just here to express my opinion. that some distributors think that right now is still a mining boom and chips shortage.
0:42 I like your orange Dutch KNVB shirt, Jeff.
It would be great to see Raspberry pi to create a Pi 500 with this new hardware. I personally love the Pi 400 for being a console management PC, but it desperately needs additional USB ports and incorporating a pci into the Pi 400 form factor would be incredibly helpful.
same pi500 pleaseeeeeeeeeee. but with 8gb
I really don't think your use case is what they intended the Pi 400 for, but maybe you'll get lucky.
Let's hope that santa 🧑🎄 sends some elves over to raspberry before December...
A raspberry pi 500 really would be a nice stocking filler.......
My little utility Pi 400 would love the upgrade!
That would pretty much be a Pi 5a+ which is something I would want
This was a very informative and condensed overview of the new RP5. I very much appreciate your analysis that goes beyond "it's better." The why and how goes a long way. Looking forward to more of your content.
if the pi 4 had over heating issues and used less power then the pi5 what are the heat issues that the pi 5 must have due to that issue?🤔
13:20 UA-cam is not blocking that option because you are on pios, but because 4k youtube is only supported via VP9 and AV1, which the RPi5 still doesn't have. UA-cam only supports h264 up to 1080p (and h265 not at all) for compatibility with old devices and devices that refuse to support the newer standards (which is why it's so strange the pi still doesn't support vp9 and av1).
We need to start adding the Intel N100 to those comparisons. Efficiency, video playback, io, pcie are very competitive... yes it's usually a bit bigger but there's tons of applications where the size difference is insignificant, the x86 platform is a huge bonus on compatibility (forget about kernel hacks for universal pcie compatibility) and the actual market price and availability have been more tempting on the n100s than the Pis.
They're like double the price of a Raspberry Pi 5 though
@@3nertia and 10 times the cpu power
If we are talking about intel's announced horse-creek, then why not. But anything based on x86-64, no thank you. This is like using a massive anchor as a door stopper.
- PS: Somebody replied, i should reevalute by presenting shiny n100 wattage numbers. That person somehow forgot to mention, that the n100 typically needs a big heatsink and even active coolers to prevent down throttling. The greater heat output is inherent in x86-64 designs no matter what workarounds Intel's engineers tried for over a decade now. The x86-64 complex needs more transistors for an instruction compared to the arm or risc-v isa. And more transistors involved for one instruction inevitably means more power consumption.
- Also that person somehow forgot, that intel tries to mitigate their isa disadvantage by producing their SoC chips at a smaller node than the pi and popular risc-v SoCs. In the case of the n100 the used lithography step is intel 7. The PI 5 gets produced at 16 nm and current RISC-V even bigger. So when you compare do it under fair conditions and don't hold back the facts.
@@paparansen Based on what?
@@aladdin8623 n100 consume 6w idle, 25w in use, I think you need to reevaluate.
I'm so excited to see that this costs as much as a second hand Lenovo tiny with 8GB of RAM and SSD.
Yeah, yeah the lenovo uses 35W and it's bigger, but at least it can be saved from the landfill and doesn't corrupt your storage since it also comes with the right PSU.
Run it off solar and it's a total net positive!
@@JeffGeerling off a treadmill. RUN FASTER JACK, WE NEED MORE POWA!!!😂
Great video Jeff! Information dense but still nice to watch. I also like the Dutch t-shirt
Do you also have information on what happens to overheating when underclocking the chip? The latest Intel chips seem to show that temperature scales exponentially with clockspeed so maybe underclocking might be a solution
Looks like a great foundation for a pi500 computer: faster USB, SD, PD support, more power, southbridge chip, RTC and a power button. I wonder if this is really what they're after.
This is one of your best videos, Jeff. I'm still a Rock 5 admirer for its 8 cores, but I'm hoping the price is going down soon. It's good that the Raspberry Pi 5 has the double of the speed for 5 dollars more. It will probably push the others to reduce prices and launch better models. The case is a cool addition, something that was needed. Let's see what will come up in 2024.
I noticed in someone else's video that the memory resistor pads are all connected to the same nodes, so they can't be doing anything in the pi.. you're the first to confirm to me that it is just a visual indication of what model it is.. I guess I can put my sharpie away and stop marking model numbers on the top of the ethernet ports!! This is a nice touch!
Wow the amount of computing power in the area of a credit card is amazing. My only complaint is very few of the accessories for the Pi4 fit the Pi5. Which means I'll have to buy everything new again.
No 3.5mm audio? Was this made by Apple?
Your videos are so good Jeff. Thank You
Yay, thanks so much for an excellent in-dept video, Jeff. I read the official Pi blog this morning and just knew you'd have some content ready so left it to enjoy this evening - really appreciate all the work you put into these!
Solid review, nice T-Shirt, keep up the great content Jeff!
13:14 UA-cam allows your browser to choose between H.264 and VP9 video codecs for anything up to 1080p, but only streams in VP9 for anything higher than 1080p. Normally, your browser would fall back to software decoding if the codec that's currently used isn't supported by the hardware, but maybe the browser in Raspberry Pi OS is specifically compiled to never use software decoding for performance reasons.
One thing i would've liked them to do, as a different model option ofc, is adding a direct M.2 slot to the board. Considering how thin m.2 ssd's are, i can totally imagine adding that port to the back of the board. I'm just guessing it, but the size would barely increase with that, and an m.2 ssd is basically the same price (or even cheaper) as similar sized sd card. (Also ofc it had to be compatible with those older m.2's, not the 'up-to-date' Long ones, as they are longer than the board)
I will say exactly the same, also its not fair compare to Orange PI 5 its little expensive but offer M.2 Slot.
There's one thing I would really like to see from the Pi foundation to make the RPi5 worthwhile to me: actual datasheets/TRMs for the BCM-2712 and the RP-1 chip. The pi foundation has never done well here with their SBCs in the past, but the RP2040's datasheet is excellent, so there's some hope here. The various rockchip SBCs are a lot better here since you can actually get TRMs for their socs (even if its a little ... unofficial, shall we say).
I think the lack of that is more to external suppliers than the foundation. A lot comes under NDA. As you point out the rp2040 really shines on documentation, but that thing is completely made in house.
I expect to see a lot of documentation on the rp1 but I wouldn't expect much on the new Broadcom cpu. But I blame Broadcom for that. Even your comparison is too non official documentation which isn't a fair comparison
something that blew my mind while working as a contractor (on a Rockchip SoC) is that you can get them to make custom chip packages like stacked die, and getting a TRM *still* like pulling teeth. I don't even know if we managed to get one, had to reverse engineer register status bits for my driver until they sent screenshots from the 1000+ page TRM we weren't given.
@@bzuidgeest ultimately, it's the pi foundation's choice of which soc to use -- theoretically, they could go with something like a TI Sitara AM69 (that's just a random choice of an SoC that's well documented publicly by comparison, I'm not suggesting that they should or shouldn't use that particular chip). At least _some_ of the rockchip parts have officially accessible TRMs (although I think they're incomplete from a cursory glance, which isn't necessarily unexpected), and as far as I understand the rockchip parts don't have a crucial coprocessor that controls the boot sequence and is almost(?) completely undocumented.
that said, I do expect and hope for great things from the RP-1 as far as documentation goes. I'm hoping they also sell it as a higher-end microcontroller
@@ShinyQuagsire ouch -- not even under NDA? That honestly sounds worse than a lot of the other cpu vendors -- I'd assume that most of them would view you as important enough to give a TRM if they view you as important enough to do custom packaging for
I just got a raspberry pi 5, but I have never used any raspberry pi devices.
I downloaded the software to a SD card but it's not powering on after I hit the power button. I am trying to use it for my 3d printer with a touch screen display. I can't figure out what I am missing or doing wrong. Any advice
Visita la página oficial de Raspberry. Hay mucha información y foros ahí. Empieza probando con otra fuente de voltaje (power adapter). Luego, asegúrate de haber seleccionado Pi 5 a la hora de instalar el software, etc. También puedes conectar algún dispositivo USB en algún puerto USB para ver si la energía está entrando a la tarjeta al presionar el botón de start. Saludos desde Mérida Yucatán México.
nice to see a new pi with most of the drawbacks fixed. this gives me hope the pi ecosystem will be around for a while. looking forward to the release. thanks for the breakdown!
I don't think they fixed the polyfuse issue, as the pi becomes more powerful and costly, they should seriously consider putting some form of over-voltage protection.
Thanks for the great overview. From the pcb it looks like a number of components are still through hole mounted - the pins are just cut flush with the bottom of the board. This is a good thing though for sockets etc as they are stronger than smd mounted.
at 13:50 - installing steam breaks the desktop env because it automatically installs 32bit version drivers or sth like that maybe vulkan, which were not designed for a pi's architecture.
The Raspberry Pi foundation seriously needs to get their act together. 4+ years of development and this is what we get? Where are the USB-C stuff like DP alt mode, Power Delivery, and so on? PCIe x1 is a nice addition, but not as nice as many of the competitors offering x4. Micro HDMI in 2023 is a slap in the face. And there's even two? They're lucky their software support is great, because otherwise I don't see why they should even exist anymore.
For 4 years I have been crying that the Pi4 didn't have VP9 decoding for UA-cam.
And now 4 years later with the Pi5 they are still advertising H.265?! What am I supposed to do with that? Decode BluRay?
Where is VP9/AV1? And a single lane of PCIe with a proprietary connector instead of 4xPCIe on m.2?
Honestly after 4 years this upgrade (5A Power delivery, CPU upgrade, crypto extensions, experimental PCIe3, RTC) is nice but it's still a disappointment.
Thank you Jeff.. you and Mr ExplainingComputers are my go to places for single board computing.. you guys rock!
Most complete analysis of the new Raspberry Pi 5 I found. Thanks!
I'm trying to get excited, but I can't help but to doubt they're actually available close to those prices by the end of the year.
We'll see... definitely try to get in a pre-order if you can, some resellers are taking them already.
Here's what I want to know: have they addressed EMI with the Pi 5? In all of my use, there were SERIOUS interference problems running USB 3 devices, especially interfering with WiFi and USB 2 devices. I found I needed to use USB extender cables to use USB mice, and other devices like my Sonoff Zigbee controller board. Very annoying! It seems as though they have (quite rightly) put a lot of thought into making the Pi 5's power management more sophisticated, and I'm hoping that the EMI issues have been beaten as well!
I know they were working on some EMI issues with PCIe in particular (which is also probably one of the reasons I had some issues with my early prototype adapter). I think they found some shielding was necessary to help with that (on the cable), and I know they spent a great deal of time on compliance testing for RF/EMI (probably more than they used to!).
Every Dutch person will go nuts seeing that shirt ❤
Pi 5 looks really cool, though I will be waiting for a while to get it. Already have 2 Pi 4s doing all the work I need so far. Looking forward to what Raspberry Pi foundation does for the Zero W series of Pi's.
The lack of analog audio output is a huge disadvantage :(
Agreed. On the other hand, no more excuse to avoid using a proper I2S DAC.
Just use a USB adapter. It doesn't mean that the onboard one would have been any better.
Kind of, but the analog output of the Pi was always very low quality.
Removing it took courage.
Stop moaning and just take the new Pi already.
Sometimes, I feel envy of you guys. Always get cool stuff before time. I have been trying to get hold of 2-3 Raspberry PI 4 B 8GB for almost 7 months now but couldn't get even one. All the official partners always show "SOLD OUT" as if it is part of the product name. I hope PI 5 availability would be better than before and I'll also be able to build a PI cluster and learn few things.
Your videos are informative as always. Love to see some new projects from you in Agriculture & Healthcare domain.
Now all the pi4s hiding under the ground are reaching the surface on old price as it was before the covid blackout. You can surely get as many as you want now.
I fully expect the price to exceed 500$ this time around -.-
As for myself, I switched over to Mini PC / thin clients a while ago. Way more power for what's basically the same price (or even cheaper) and ever so slightly higher power consumption.
For my admittedly casual use case the new Video Core VII was what made me want one. A more powerful and capable GPU has been a loooong time coming, the Pi4 always seemed a little mismatched with it's GPU.
Epic. Epic. Epic. The most dense 20 minutes on YT.
Amazing video explaining everything. My main concern is if I'll be able to buy it. Everytime I try to get the 8GB Pi4 it is always out of stock except for places with scalper prices. I hope doesn't happen the same with the 8GB Pi5 😔
Raspberry Pi said that they are keeping Pi 5s out of industry hands until the new year, so hopefully that means a little more supply for the rest of us
@@_Jayanky_ thanks for letting us know, great news. I managed to order one a few days ago but need to wait for December to get it delivered. :(
Even though I have a two Proxmox machines already, I still use Raspberry Pi, Radxa Rock Pi, Orange Pi on my homelab. They play an important role like DNS, network management, monitoring, etc...
I'll more likely stay on RPi 4, Radxa Rock 4. RPi 5 is interesting since my priority is booting using NVME, but the features of Pi 4 is enough, but again the PCIE in the Pi 5 is tempting.
I got a notification in the early hours the other night about the pre-order. Less than 5 minutes later I ordered one. :)
Pi was and always should be a teaching and learning tool. I'm glad they are able to find reliable sourcing because I was so worried that stock outages were meant to kill off the Pi. I guess specialty chipsets are meant to avoid future outages. I was looking at the schematics but I wasn't able to see if the COM chipset is the bottleneck like it was for the 3 and 4. Have they removed that issue?
EDIT: I'm assuming they will release smaller memory PI5s as you showed there are 8, 4, 2, and 1 Gig memory resistor points on the card.
The supply shortages were industry wide and not limited to the foundation. They worked hard to keep it going. Much of the supply went to business customers. Some people complain about that, but I see that as very good. It gives them a stable source of revenue to make us better boards. It also forces high quality os support because companies like stable software in their machines. And they also like long term availability, which again also serves us.
Going to be sad to lose the Composite out, but good to finally have a 5. Even if it has been so long that it feels like we should've had the 6 by now.
Same, Composite out is a big selling point for me personally when buying a single board pc.
It's not gone. It's just relegated to two (currently empty) 2.5mm pads between the micro-HDMI and cam/disp ports. So you could solder in your own cable if you wanted it that badly. Just like on the Pi Zero. You'll still need some other method for getting sound out though.
Pi cares more about a stable eco system. It's not about the latest greatest, for that you need to look elsewhere. For great community, tools and support and long term availability, you choose pi.
That's basically gone for a large portion of people. At that stage its easier on the user to either get a GBS C or some sort of de-scaler.(or if they're compatible with this, one of those Raspberry Pi Scart things.)
Its not the worst thing ever that its gone. Just makes it the less option for certain projects when the availability of parts are a issue.
@@ajshell2
@@bzuidgeest Not sure that's applicable here.
Excellent! Really appreciate the, "You should really buy this component for the Pi 5." advice bullets.
The new Pi seems to always get released on nights I can't sleep.
Please try not sleeping more often!
@@JeffGeerling lol 😂
@@JeffGeerling Is this working? I the Pi 6 launching in 3 minutes?
Even ETA prime mentioned wanting to see what you do with the PCIe port. Great addition to the board that one.
Heh, and my comment about the retro gaming was mostly directed at him :)
Love seeing the things he does!
Instead of adding m.2 with 4xPCIe lanes, like pretty much every other SBC, 4 years later Raspberry is still stuck at a single PCIe lane with a proprietary connector.
Huge disappointment actually.
With full support of the KNVB. Thank you from the Netherlands
I just had a look on Amazon at the Orange Pi 5. Great price, great specs, but the reviews are telling. There is next to no community. To get things that the RPi community takes for granted, such as an easy bug-free install and multiple working distros, just aren't there. Also, the surrounding ecosystem for cases, HATs, etc. are just not there for the Orange Pi 5. The competition in the hardware space has never been keener (something I'm very pleased about since the dearth period from the start of the pandemic), but the competitors will have to eventually realise that for success, you need a lot more than just good-specced hardware.
Glad it's faster but sad there's not more in terms of IO... I was hoping to make it in a decent NAS with 5-10Gb network but that's not going to fly with just a measly PCI 2.0x1
I'm also never trusting USB to serve my storage
Also new drinking game everytime Jeff says "We'll get to that later" :p
I use Orange Pi 5 Plus as a NAS. Has 2,000MB/s NVME and dual 2.5Gb ethernet.
@@estusflask982yeah my hope was the pi5 would enable 1 nvme storage at >1250MB/s and 1 10Gbe network and a couple SATAs.. I'd use the nvme as cache and saturate the network... aaaanyway another 2-4 years maybe haha
I've had my Rpi 3 for like 5-6 years now, running 24/7 without a single hiccup.... just bought an RPi 4 B cause of the better hardware, and I still haven't swapped them because of how goddamn reliable that model 3 B is. Yeah, I got it in 2016 I think that would make it 7 years running non-stop for 7 years continuously holy shitballs dude.
Raspberry pi's are something else honestly. The reliability and longevity of these things absolutely blew me away...
I would have rather seen a single _full-size_ HDMI and one of the USB type-A ports replaced with a type-C port with DisplayPort/HDMI alt mode.
Orange Pi 5 Plus has full size HDMI AND USB-C with DisplayPort alt mode.
But can it run crisis?
My technical skills are such that you might as well be speaking a hybrid of Hungarian and Inuit, but I love your videos! Watching yours and Chris's back-to-back gives us the whole picture, and is a lot of fun. Can't wait till I can get up to the St Louis Micro Center to snag one of these (I'm a little bit south of STL).
I'm not optimistic about the availability of Pi5. For years they've promised to solve the shortage issue with Pi4 and CM4 and they couldn't keep their promises. What has changed? What makes me believe them this time? Raspberry Pi the company started with a noble goal; to help young learners get their hands on a very affordable computer but ever since big companies showed their interest in using the Pi in industrial solutions, Raspberry Pi seemed to have deviated from that goal to serve the big tech as the supplies for the past years have been almost completely preserved for the big customers rather than the individuals.
All due to the pandemic and chip shortages...which is virtually over. That kind of complication has never happened before. It wasn't just them. Vehicle manufacturers have had brand new vehicles parked in fields for a year or 2 waiting on chips/parts
@@mrmotofyyou got a big copium supply it seems
Jeff Geerling: EVERYTHING you need to know!
He has a great channel.
Raspberry pis are now removing the audio jack? Why?
No idea. No idea who these are marketed towards either. Schools and budget nerds like me aren't going anywhere near this thing. I thought about it and then went nah.
There are through hole components. Plenty of them. It's just that they don't protrude on the solder side of the PCB. These are still Through Hole as they require Plated Through Holes in the PCB. They are however not soldered with wave or hand soldering like traditional TH components but soldered during the SMD reflow process. This means they still need to be placed by those fancy robots. They also have to be resistant to reflow temperatures. Unlike traditional TH components.
It would be interesting to see if the RP1 can also be programmed as kind of a co-processor, handling some real-time tasks (like stepping a stepper motor, or reading a rotary encoder signal) without the need for a real-time OS running on the AP. (Or if some of the PIO goodness also made its way into the RP1 silicon)
According to the documentation, the RP1 does feature two ARM Cortex M3 cores - now the question becomes: is it user programmable? :)
(datasheets.raspberrypi.com/rp1/rp1-peripherals.pdf page 5)
Im curious if the onboard wifi actually is more compatible with WIFI6. The PI4 chip will connect to 5ghz networks but it does not seam to like DFS channels at all. I have a WIFI6 router here at work and the PI4 will not connect at all to is. It actually does not even see the 5ghz networks at all.
I haven't had an issue but only tested on an ASUS and a Netgear AP
@@JeffGeerling Check to see what channel your WIFI6 router is using. Only some of the channels are in the DFS range. My PI4 can connect just fine as long as the range is not DFS channels.
DFS channels are 52, 56, 60, 64, 100, 104, 108, 112, 116, 120, 124, 128, 132, 136, 140, and 144
Mine specifically was running channel 120
I'll miss that 3.5mm jack
personally I don't, and most don't use that jack for multimedia and even though the pwm quality of it is so low