I’ve heard many producers due this, the cutting the super lows out of the master and I’m very hesitant to think this is a good idea. Eqing causes phase shift, so all that work u did setting the phase is almost meaningless if u are just gonna shift the phase of ur entire low end on the master. U could use linear phase but then u risk smearing ur transients due to preringing. I asked jade cicada about this in his discord a while back and he informed me he never eqs the lows out of things that he wants to have sub, the kick and basses containing sub. Anyways that’s just my reasoning and current understanding. If u have a different point of view, I’d love to hear it. Thanks for the videos and all that u do for the community:)
@@merrickk7949 interesting topic. I asked Infekt about this on Discord and he made a point basically saying that with electronic music, if ur sub is a clean synthesized sine wave (w/ maybe some extra harmonics), then there wouldn't even be any content underneath the fundamental to EQ out anyway, at least nothing audible. So yah it makes sense to me that there would be no need to low-cut the master at 30hz - as long as you're hiPassing out the sub of other elements and making sure nothing is in the sub range 'cept your kick and sub. And also yah, cause an EQing low-end can mess with phase, and might take power away from the sub. Of course go with whatever sounds/feels best to u
@@sharkadelic8799 yo thanks for the thoughtful reply! That’s exactly my reasoning also. Why try an fix a problem that’s not there. Like my low end I get right wayyy b4 mastering. Another idea I’ve heard in this topic is bouncing two versions of ur track. One for live use where ur sub is only one harmonic and one for streaming where u add other harmonics to the sub. The reasoning here is speakers can only go one way at a time. Out or in. so on a big system a pure sine wave would be cleanest cuz the speaker won’t have to do as much. I see the phase of sine waves like this.. when it’s at its height, it’s telling the speaker to push air out when it’s low, it’s sucking in. Adding harmonics is gonna make the speaker suck out and in more, producing a less clean sound then one pure sine would cuz a pure sine is only saying out and then back in. This is only on big systems tho, adding harmonics is something I fully agree with and do in all my tracks. Also should note, im lazy and don’t do this myself haha Just fun to think about
@@merrickk7949 3:55 alot of mastering engineers do it if your track is 100% perfectly mixed there wont be anything to cut if distortion is introduced through mastering cutting can be very helpful if youre worried about phase shifts then design the phases with it on if youre worried about linear preringing use a gentler q test on a subwoofer, i can say the lowcut generally makes subs hits harder in practice do what you want trust your ears
@@BuntingMusic thanks for getting back to me! I hadn’t thought of the eq idea, designing the sub and kick with it on, I’ll definitely give that a try. Yea in my mastering chain, I rarely apply noticeable distortion. I’ll process channels heavily all day but my grp processing and mastering chains I like to keep pretty simple. I’m gonna experiment with this low cut idea and see what method works for me.
Hey, Bunting- I highly appreciate all the energy you have put into your musical work. I have benefited greatly from the content and I respect you to the max.
WHERE WAS THIS TUTORIAL BEFORE I LEARNED HOW TO MIX OMGGG this was the best one ive EVER seen. everyone else makes it SO COMPLICATED. youre amazing for this dude!
I learned a thing! Cool video thanks, wish I had this a year or so ago when I was destroying my sub in the master, that tip on the harmonics is helpful and the leveling of the phase to keep it a single sine helped me because I just never thought of that by myself. I read a long time ago in a galaxy far away that boosting 10khz on the sub can add some desirable air, kinda like adding noise to the sub. I cut everything in between from 160hz or 200hz-9800khz boost 10k and roll off at around 12k and a thing I'll do is highpass at 35hz and it gets rid of unwanted rumble in the sub and makes it sound less fluttery and tight. It all depends on the mix I guess and what you want your art to sound like.
You always teach me something new that was needed! You did the best explanation on what to watch out for when making a sub bass sound actually good on speakers and phones!! Thank you so much!!
If you made just a separated sub for project make sure to automate the low end, when Kick hits it can hit more soft at the same time when subbass is here. To fix that at kick, sub should goes down but after that when kick ends the good sub should be here. So good sub frequencies don't touch your hard kicks 😊❤
Hey bro, love your vids and knowledge. I feel like (and could be wrong) making these tutorials with madd and massive music, then not having your music pop off would be super frustrating. I always love your music but forget to go elsewhere to view it. For your next few vids of you should drop some of your newer tracks, then re upload or join them closely with the tutorial that the track came from. For virtual riot for instance, it's very easy to hear his music or a tutorial and find both without one mixing into the other playlist. Mainly I just want you to come back. I'll definitely be following on sc after years of forgetting
Been producing since 2014 and you taught me several cool things in this video. Thank you for that! Just curious. You mentioned to be careful with ruining sub bass with mastering. Is that because mastering often brings up the mids/ higher frequencies, thus potentially making the sub sound less audible?
@@glowsloth I'm fairly certain not. I personally dont unless it's a wild circumstance. I doubled down on that once I saw how basses were layered in Micheal Jackson songs, it's magical honestly. definitely go by ear and in terms of bass with full low-end feel out how the parallel mix literally feels on the body and mind. simplifies balancing
One criticism, bass doesn’t always have to be mono. Look up Disprove - In the Lab (Steelan Remix). Dude is a master level sound designer, he makes stereo basses that stay in phase when collapsed to mono Edit: he’s so obscure that only one video of this song still exists, but it’s a horribly distorted version of what I knew and loved 😭
It's not stereo. The bass is made using layering techniques. The sub frequencies are always placed in mono, while the harmonics are added on top using stereo widening techniques. This makes it seem as if the bass is in stereo.
Do you have a 10dB difference between your sub and the rest in your own tracks? Do you do that technique demonstrated by AHEE, Sseb and others, that they claim Skrillex etc. do, to dip 90-100hz on your master to create separation between your sub and everything else and trick the mind into perceiving the sub louder? If not, thoughts on that?
Raises hand "asking for a friend, how often do you find yourself using a separate dedicated sub, one that does its own thing per se" I planned on asking before you said to not ask. Thank u
Are the wavetable editors in Serum and Vital doing exactly the same thing as the waveform editor in Operator? Purely asking out of laziness so I can keep using operator for my subs and not have to open Serum/Vital.
Ayy catching your upload while it's hot :D awesome video man! ❤️ by the way do you use the same patch with just different LFO rates in vital for your separate sub basses or do they carry different timbres aswell?
I subscribe to your patron but I can’t use your project files because it’s saying I don’t have vital but I literally do just the free version is that why ?? I usually use serum 😢
The high cuts for live on the subs is huge. I always cut the high end to about 140hz. It cleans up the sound on the actual subs soooooo much. Good stuff here bro.
make the second harmonic the loudest. thats what studies are calling, the ear friendly harmonic, thats also what vacuum tubes are doing, and why people like tube sound "more", it pushes the second harmonic the most.
odd harmonics are usually the best because they increase the perceived loudness while actually decreasing the amplitude. They also are the same harmonics you get when using basic distortion.
Hey man thank you a lot for making videos for all of us and sharing your knowledge it’s very noble real talk. I have a specific question and id be thankful if you can help me. Whenever I use a reference track and my levels are kind of equal to the reference track, the sub on the reference track is like not ever that loud compared to mine even though they are at the same levels. It’s very deceiving.
So....could you use the sidechaining to say like Soothe2 and just work to balance? I f***ing suck at production and prepared to be roasted if needed lol
Question for you... I'm sort of a newb, do you get rid of the first fundamental harmonic to make it a more steady sub? Am I thinking about that correctly?
Have you ever experimented with stereo sub bass? I guess it would only really come through on a system set up with subwoofers in stereo. I have made a track with stereo panning sub bass and played it on my system with stereo subs and it creates a really interesting yet subtle movement in the bass. Seems to move forward and back in the room.
Stereo sub bass is more for heaphones than anything. Most PA systems run sub bass in mono so if you have stereo sub bass in your mix, you have to make sure you dont have issues with stereo phase cancelation when the sub is run in mono. This is one of the reason why you should always check your mix in mono, it also one of the pitfalls of mixing on headphones. Due to the seperation of left and right on headphones, the soundwaves dont interact with each other in an open space and this can mask huge phase cancelation problems in the mix. This is why you should listen to your final mixes on a proper monitor system in a treated room before release.
more things
F0 is the strongest sub note on most systems
lowcutting the master around 27-30hz can further boost the sub
I’ve heard many producers due this, the cutting the super lows out of the master and I’m very hesitant to think this is a good idea. Eqing causes phase shift, so all that work u did setting the phase is almost meaningless if u are just gonna shift the phase of ur entire low end on the master. U could use linear phase but then u risk smearing ur transients due to preringing. I asked jade cicada about this in his discord a while back and he informed me he never eqs the lows out of things that he wants to have sub, the kick and basses containing sub. Anyways that’s just my reasoning and current understanding. If u have a different point of view, I’d love to hear it. Thanks for the videos and all that u do for the community:)
@@merrickk7949 interesting topic. I asked Infekt about this on Discord and he made a point basically saying that with electronic music, if ur sub is a clean synthesized sine wave (w/ maybe some extra harmonics), then there wouldn't even be any content underneath the fundamental to EQ out anyway, at least nothing audible. So yah it makes sense to me that there would be no need to low-cut the master at 30hz - as long as you're hiPassing out the sub of other elements and making sure nothing is in the sub range 'cept your kick and sub. And also yah, cause an EQing low-end can mess with phase, and might take power away from the sub. Of course go with whatever sounds/feels best to u
@@sharkadelic8799 yo thanks for the thoughtful reply! That’s exactly my reasoning also. Why try an fix a problem that’s not there. Like my low end I get right wayyy b4 mastering. Another idea I’ve heard in this topic is bouncing two versions of ur track. One for live use where ur sub is only one harmonic and one for streaming where u add other harmonics to the sub. The reasoning here is speakers can only go one way at a time. Out or in. so on a big system a pure sine wave would be cleanest cuz the speaker won’t have to do as much. I see the phase of sine waves like this.. when it’s at its height, it’s telling the speaker to push air out when it’s low, it’s sucking in. Adding harmonics is gonna make the speaker suck out and in more, producing a less clean sound then one pure sine would cuz a pure sine is only saying out and then back in. This is only on big systems tho, adding harmonics is something I fully agree with and do in all my tracks. Also should note, im lazy and don’t do this myself haha Just fun to think about
@@merrickk7949 3:55
alot of mastering engineers do it
if your track is 100% perfectly mixed there wont be anything to cut
if distortion is introduced through mastering cutting can be very helpful
if youre worried about phase shifts then design the phases with it on
if youre worried about linear preringing use a gentler q
test on a subwoofer, i can say the lowcut generally makes subs hits harder in practice
do what you want trust your ears
@@BuntingMusic thanks for getting back to me! I hadn’t thought of the eq idea, designing the sub and kick with it on, I’ll definitely give that a try. Yea in my mastering chain, I rarely apply noticeable distortion. I’ll process channels heavily all day but my grp processing and mastering chains I like to keep pretty simple. I’m gonna experiment with this low cut idea and see what method works for me.
Man. You explain stuff so simply. Anyone could reach a professional level of skill by watching Bunting vids
I’m on Logic and I still come to your videos almost daily. Thanks for spreading knowledge so the music community can get even better homie.
Hey, Bunting-
I highly appreciate all the energy you have put into your musical work. I have benefited greatly from the content and I respect you to the max.
👍👍🙏
Appreciate everything you do g, Hope you have a great day.
This was the one for me, big lightbulb
HUGE VIDEO! Thanx for the help G!
hearing "analog subs are the best" as someone who builds Eurorack gear makes me want to scream. thanks for the insightful video.
WHERE WAS THIS TUTORIAL BEFORE I LEARNED HOW TO MIX OMGGG this was the best one ive EVER seen. everyone else makes it SO COMPLICATED. youre amazing for this dude!
your music is fucking rad!
ayyy
Great tips
really straight to the point and actionable advice, your vids are great 👌 thanks
Thank you bunting
you are the man g
"It's whatever you want, don't ever ask me that again." Bro i'm dead 🤣
Thank you Bunting! ❤️
I learned a thing! Cool video thanks, wish I had this a year or so ago when I was destroying my sub in the master, that tip on the harmonics is helpful and the leveling of the phase to keep it a single sine helped me because I just never thought of that by myself. I read a long time ago in a galaxy far away that boosting 10khz on the sub can add some desirable air, kinda like adding noise to the sub. I cut everything in between from 160hz or 200hz-9800khz boost 10k and roll off at around 12k and a thing I'll do is highpass at 35hz and it gets rid of unwanted rumble in the sub and makes it sound less fluttery and tight. It all depends on the mix I guess and what you want your art to sound like.
Never thought of using the Multiband Compressor to Layer tracks besides gluing them together. Neat af 🤘🔥
Helpful video!
For more info on shaping the sub-bass I'd recommend Mr. Bills video about it. It definitely helps with understanding how perceived loudness works.
Mr Bill is the man. Been watching his stuff since 2013. My music still sucks but I appreciate what he’s taught me
@@jasongravely7217 He's the goat and a super chill dude to hang out with
This is a super helpful video
>thick sub OMG so big
Never change bud. Also Flux is professional af and one of my current jams. Love u dude.
thank you
Thank you for sharing your wisdom 🙏
Sweet
Very helpful video for me!
needed this. big up brotha.
Heck Yes!
You always teach me something new that was needed! You did the best explanation on what to watch out for when making a sub bass sound actually good on speakers and phones!! Thank you so much!!
If you made just a separated sub for project make sure to automate the low end, when Kick hits it can hit more soft at the same time when subbass is here. To fix that at kick, sub should goes down but after that when kick ends the good sub should be here. So good sub frequencies don't touch your hard kicks 😊❤
Zog! shift arrow key right, what a gem
I did this a lot for years, definitely good suggestions for new producers who are just getting into edm
Thanks for making this dope video
Hey bro, love your vids and knowledge. I feel like (and could be wrong) making these tutorials with madd and massive music, then not having your music pop off would be super frustrating. I always love your music but forget to go elsewhere to view it. For your next few vids of you should drop some of your newer tracks, then re upload or join them closely with the tutorial that the track came from. For virtual riot for instance, it's very easy to hear his music or a tutorial and find both without one mixing into the other playlist. Mainly I just want you to come back. I'll definitely be following on sc after years of forgetting
Thanks buddy! It's like read my mind sometimes for your video information lol
Been producing since 2014 and you taught me several cool things in this video.
Thank you for that!
Just curious. You mentioned to be careful with ruining sub bass with mastering. Is that because mastering often brings up the mids/ higher frequencies, thus potentially making the sub sound less audible?
Ayyyy @Bunting you honored my request to talk about custom wave table editing!
The panicking and saying "Hel..Help" 🤣
god bless Master Bunting
sick help. tried out the 140 cut on the Parallel chain w the high end, for a remix, that helped immensely. sample fx filter at 140, thick.
When he does that does he lowpass the og synth with no effects? Or just let it play underneath fx? I always cut it bc i assumed it would clash
@@glowsloth I'm fairly certain not. I personally dont unless it's a wild circumstance. I doubled down on that once I saw how basses were layered in Micheal Jackson songs, it's magical honestly. definitely go by ear and in terms of bass with full low-end feel out how the parallel mix literally feels on the body and mind. simplifies balancing
Very good thank you sir 👍
damn this is what I've been looking for thanks for the detailed explanation
Thanks my guy, big up
One criticism, bass doesn’t always have to be mono. Look up Disprove - In the Lab (Steelan Remix). Dude is a master level sound designer, he makes stereo basses that stay in phase when collapsed to mono
Edit: he’s so obscure that only one video of this song still exists, but it’s a horribly distorted version of what I knew and loved 😭
90% of the tyne u want it mono son
@@LeePuu keep telling yourself that if its what you need to sleep at night.
It's not stereo. The bass is made using layering techniques. The sub frequencies are always placed in mono, while the harmonics are added on top using stereo widening techniques. This makes it seem as if the bass is in stereo.
@@turbochargedfilmsNo bass should be in stereo. This is a common fact.
Do you have a 10dB difference between your sub and the rest in your own tracks?
Do you do that technique demonstrated by AHEE, Sseb and others, that they claim Skrillex etc. do, to dip 90-100hz on your master to create separation between your sub and everything else and trick the mind into perceiving the sub louder? If not, thoughts on that?
i usually like my sub response flat, and yes i scoop mids
@@BuntingMusic So are you stilll hitting 0 true peak on the sub?
Just a tiny scoop? Seen the technique explained but never demonstrated in practice.
Wow. That's interesting. 🤔
🙏🏻
I actually love this song.. Where do I get it haha?
ok, I have learned new things, the knowledge is bigger to making a big tracks. thanks ! ♪
Raises hand "asking for a friend, how often do you find yourself using a separate dedicated sub, one that does its own thing per se" I planned on asking before you said to not ask. Thank u
Perfect my iPhone subwoofer is bumpin from this tut, thanks 🅱️
can ya make a tut on intros or something in that nature. i feel drops are easier to make then intros :(
Are the wavetable editors in Serum and Vital doing exactly the same thing as the waveform editor in Operator? Purely asking out of laziness so I can keep using operator for my subs and not have to open Serum/Vital.
here is comment.
thank you
Ayy catching your upload while it's hot :D awesome video man! ❤️ by the way do you use the same patch with just different LFO rates in vital for your separate sub basses or do they carry different timbres aswell?
Are you sitll active? 👉👈
you seem like a great teacher
I wanted to add a like but its at 808 and that just felt right
I subscribe to your patron but I can’t use your project files because it’s saying I don’t have vital but I literally do just the free version is that why ?? I usually use serum 😢
How do you master loud without killing the sub? Have that problem rn on a track
Currently laying against my speakers now
The high cuts for live on the subs is huge. I always cut the high end to about 140hz. It cleans up the sound on the actual subs soooooo much.
Good stuff here bro.
I'll add even on AUX run subs. I don't want that board giving any high end.
You’re growing so fast man! See yuh tonight
dis dat good good right here am i rite fellas 😩
excellent tuit.
An Actual decent UA-camr that isn’t copy pasting every other stupid video about mixing? Thanks!!
make the second harmonic the loudest. thats what studies are calling, the ear friendly harmonic, thats also what vacuum tubes are doing, and why people like tube sound "more", it pushes the second harmonic the most.
odd harmonics are usually the best because they increase the perceived loudness while actually decreasing the amplitude. They also are the same harmonics you get when using basic distortion.
Hey man thank you a lot for making videos for all of us and sharing your knowledge it’s very noble real talk. I have a specific question and id be thankful if you can help me. Whenever I use a reference track and my levels are kind of equal to the reference track, the sub on the reference track is like not ever that loud compared to mine even though they are at the same levels. It’s very deceiving.
sub basses of my dreammmmmmmmmmmms
neat bass!
So your sub its at -6 to 0db true peak?
Got some nice syncopation going on here!!!
So....could you use the sidechaining to say like Soothe2 and just work to balance?
I f***ing suck at production and prepared to be roasted if needed lol
i learned... i liked... i subbed...
💥
mono?
"might not want to use this bc it shifts the phase n stuff but... ok nerrrd" lol
Question for you... I'm sort of a newb, do you get rid of the first fundamental harmonic to make it a more steady sub? Am I thinking about that correctly?
"Don't ever ask me again" 🤣😂
a fine comment to boost your al gore rhythm. thanks for sharing your knowledge dude.
4:06 😂
U r the best
u da man
If you a real one youll have a fully stereo sub
Dont let everyone know the secret! For real tho, stereo sub is where its at. Haters don't understand.
Can totally work.
The sub needs to work in mono, it doesn't have to be mono.
Worst advice on it is to just turn the low-end mono afterwards.
haha u are hilarious I love your vibe giving no fks lol
Fiyah
Have you ever experimented with stereo sub bass? I guess it would only really come through on a system set up with subwoofers in stereo.
I have made a track with stereo panning sub bass and played it on my system with stereo subs and it creates a really interesting yet subtle movement in the bass. Seems to move forward and back in the room.
Stereo sub bass is more for heaphones than anything. Most PA systems run sub bass in mono so if you have stereo sub bass in your mix, you have to make sure you dont have issues with stereo phase cancelation when the sub is run in mono. This is one of the reason why you should always check your mix in mono, it also one of the pitfalls of mixing on headphones. Due to the seperation of left and right on headphones, the soundwaves dont interact with each other in an open space and this can mask huge phase cancelation problems in the mix. This is why you should listen to your final mixes on a proper monitor system in a treated room before release.
lit
Whatever bro 💜
Yo this is sick
Um also can you do a peekaboo tutorial
Ha already has fam
@@yuhyuhtheindigo7085 oh shit i didnt even realize my bad
Heres a comment to go with the like❤
I like bass
hey Bunting! You are very cute. I have liked and subscribed. Thank you for video content.
THICC SUB OMG SO BIC
ok
Me after learning this: Shit (EQ3-M 10db)
Your CRU does NOT like that
i hope you start getting more money from this. your videos have good info but damn you need a new computer or something.
STOP THAT CLICKING 🤓
Saturation on sub = thiccc... CAP
comment
King shit
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