If you look at hobbies beyond model railways, it’s even more catastrophic, EG in cycling it’s not an ordered wind down, major brands are going bust every week and it’s being repeated in multiple hobbies worldwide. Hattons are being very smart by withdrawing with dignity and not leaving customers high and dry. Hattons have been part of the hobby longer than I have been alive, sad to see them leave
Shocking and sad news - I feel bad for the helpful, knowledgeable staff who now all have to look for new jobs at a difficult time, and it's a huge shame that such a longstanding company that has served multiple generations over almost eight decades, even after innovating and tweaking the business to move with the times, will soon be no more.
Its nice to see another "real" woman who is into railway modelling. I will send a link to my young daughter who will be pleased to follow you. Shame about Hattons tho. Model railway shops up and down the land need our support.
They made a 400K loss in their last published accounts, the Bachmann spat and Hornby and the new players wanting to sell direct to control prices, added to the fact that few people have enough disposable income to spend £250 on a locomotive. It's sad but I'm not really surprised.
I have used Hattons on the ODD occasion but I am a big supporter of my local shops in Suffolk and Norfolk who always give their regular customers an extra discount. Support your local shops as you may have to now!
I have been to Hattons on a trip to UK in 2014, and purchased a large order which they sent away on the date I nominated, so that it did not reach New Zealand before we returned. I have bought online from them previous to that and since. I don’t understand remarks that their customer service had gone downhill. I had to return an item that did not work which the manufacturer would not do. A new item was returned to me within the usual timespan of no more than 14 days. I have subsequently made enquires about their stock, and also corrected a mistake in their advertising within the last six months, all was dealt with courtesy and quickly. Thank you Hattons for the 20 years of excellent service. My hope is that all the owners and staff can go on to find work in the future.
I live here in New Zealand and Hattons have been my go to site for sourcing all sorts of model railway stuff. On hearing that they are closing i was taken aback and a sense of sadness came over me...bugger!....!!
5 years ago Hatton's was my gateway back into model trains after I'd forgotten about trains for 10 years, and from that so much of what I have today came from there. Massive shock that they're closing
There is a story here, and hopefully someone will explore it. It is only Hattons UK which is starting to wind up its retail business. Model Trains and Stuff a major USA online retailer (which just closed it bricks and mortar premises) and Heartland Hobby Wholesalers (HHW) both owned by Hattons are continuing to trade. So the Hattons empire will continue but not in the UK, unless they have some new business enterprise planned. As Hatton's used acquisitions as a way of creating its US based business, who knows they may use a similar strategy in the UK to in effect rebrand itself.
Bit of a shock, but not surprised, model prices going through the roof , even for 2nd hand. With a cost of living crisis, times are tough ,support your local model shop if you can
I live in Belgium. I used to spend around 4000 pounds a year with Hattons, who were my go to retailer pre Brexit. In the early post Brexit time they were easier to deal with than others and my shipments got delivered quickly. In the last year however the wheels have come off that service, and even before this i had decided that they would no longer be my supplier of choice.
Honestly, from France, Hattons had been my gateway, but others have put forward interesting offers, The Model Centre for instance. Also, you have UK retailers who were selling abroad who ceased to do so, like Model Railways Direct in Wales, due to the hassle with red tape. For UK models on the continent, you still have Modellbahn Union in Germany if you want some OO scale models.
Another thing, AU now get overseas suppliers to charge GST on everything (used to be over 1000 dollars) and that takes a lot of paperwork, and then it has to be remited to the Australian goverment. i can imagine the paperwork nightmare.
Yep, just got an email from Hattons 3 weeks ago that due to New Zealand GST legislation they will be required to apply the 15% GST at point of checkout but gave me a 7 day grace window to clear and dispatch my overflowing trunk. Awesome retailer, awesome sales team, will be sadly missed!
I find this really worrying for the hobby. Hattons is probably the largest UK retailer for model railways, so if they can't balance the books, I'm wondering how other traders are managing.
My very first model (Hornby HO of course) was purchased by my father for me, in 1958, and shipped from Liverpool to K.L (Malaya) in time for Christmas. Thank you Hattons fro being part of my life :(
Being from Minnesota in the U.S., my knowledge of Hattons is limited to what I’ve picked up over the last ten minutes but I can say their closing is part of a distressing trend in our hobby as the number of modelers leaving the hobby far outweigh the number joining it. Blame who you will and I can see there are all kinds of villains to point a finger at, but Hattons is being remarkably honest about their logic in closing and that’s admirable. They can see what’s coming. I guess in 1:1 railroading it would be called “rationalizing the fixed plant to serve the market.” It’s ironic that if you have the money, today is the golden age of model railroading as it’s unlikely there are many more technological miracles to come. If you don’t have the money-like me-you might be an analog oddity in a digital world. I’m seeing sort of the same painful shrinkage in another hobby of mine which is bowling. In both of them the same trend is apparent; it has gotten unbelievably expensive to do what I like to do!
@@ThruAWiderLens Let me ask you a question. If it comes down to either a) paying your rent/mortgage/electricity/gas/water/council tax bill or buying a Locomotive, which one do you choose? The fact is, the manufacturers are pricing the retailers & customers out of the hobby.
@@LSPhotography Agreed. Especially selling Ali Express quality at German prices (Bachmann is an expert in this area), having models with faulty motors or outdated drivetrains sold the same price as recent Roco engines, etc... It does not help, especially retailers. I had started UK model trains more than ten years ago, and OO scale specifically five years ago and, honestly, if I would have to start from scratch today, I would stick to continental models due to numerous issues with UK models. You will find people ready to pay the price if the quality is there. If this is not the case, so, the sales goes down. And retailers are the collateral damage of this policy.
@@LSPhotography You raise a legitimate point. Locomotives are way too expensive in general. That said, a price range is available to consumers, from higher end Accurascale or Heljan locos to less detailed Railroad Range or used, for example. My point is that--obviously--if more of each individual unit were purchased by the public, prices would come down (as they have, say, for flat screen televisions). There just aren't enough buyers out there. I don't think it's the manufacturers' fault. To answer your question: Yep, I'd pay the rent.
I am stunned. Hattons is the biggest Model Railway retailer in the UK. If they think there isn't a market then what does this say about the hobby? The silver lining here is that other retailers just lost the Goliath in the retail space, so they should see higher revenues.
I used to go to Hattons a lot when I visted Liverpool and they never should have moved from their wonderful store in Allerton to that awful, soulless and retail/browsing unfriendly industial unit in that area off the motorway.
When they first moved to the awful industrial estate I was talking to the lads there and they said it was because of mail order dominated their business model now, and they needed a warehouse more than a shop. All the glass cabinets around the walls filled with high end stuff and a small oval of track on the counter for testing. No acessories shopping experience. So stale and just puts anyone off the hobby from getting involved. Not even dioramas or demo layouts to inspire folks. Just 'STOCK'. Argos Model Trains felt like.
I also used to visit Hattons quite often if I was in Liverpool. Another issue with going to the industrial unit at Widnes is that it's pretty much impossible to get to if you don't have a car. I think there was no pedestrian access to the site.
Really enjoying your channel. I think this is the first shakeout not the last in the hobby driven by the endless search for more detailed and specific models, driving up model costs exponentially. Luckily I could afford to buy the latest stuff at the latest prices, but I don’t. I started in the 1990s when Hornby top link in the brown box rivalled Lima in the blue box for which one could run the worse! When production moved to China, there was a spectacular improvement in detail and quality of running. Anything made 2005 to 2015 normally runs great has great detail and at normal viewing distance is indistinguishable from the current super detail stuff. The actual market for, and margins to be made on for example Hornby’s 900 variations of class 5 must be peanuts for them and the retailers. I used Hattons in the uk and internationally for many years. They are a great company but if they fail others will too. Then the you tube reviewers pushing for endless extra details will rue the day…..sad for Hattons and us all.
How sad Dawn, I remember when Beatties of Holborn closed. PS: The freight from USA to Australia is still 3 times what it was before covid. Even a Soundcard decoded, the size of a matchbox is 200USA POSTAGE. used to be 60....outrageous.
For the postage, you can't have anything from the USA with a postage below 50 USD here, in Europe. By chance, I have a German retailer available for the few US models I buy in N scale.
they are obviously taking advantage of you. I regularly watch an Australian engineering firm on youtube (Cutting edge engineering) and he gets parcels from all over the world for himself, wife and the safety mutt Homey. You can't tell me that someone is going to pay $200 to post something from the US to Australia worth $20 at best!
Hi Dawn. I've done a reasonable amount of business (not exclusively) with Hattons, so - like others- the news has come as a shock with sadness that they are to close. As Hatton has said, they are not insolvent, but have decided to quit the modelling market in an orderly way before things really get bad. Having said that, and I'm no financial Wizz kid in business, I still don't quite understand the situation. There has been no mention of attempts to sell the business on to someone who may have ideas as to how to survive the "storm". Unfortunately, it is mostly small, high-street retailers who fall by the wayside as they struggle to compete against the big boys. Yes, they have a store, but it is not so little and they appear to have a good online business. Little Wicket has just released a similar video showing that, while the UK market shrank a little between 2021 and 2022, their business with the EU and the rest of the world increased. Who's next!?
Oh my, this is a shock… it’s not just a store, it’s a manufacturer too… some great loco’s under their belts… I wonder what’s going to happen to those… will other manufacturers take them up?
For those near Wigan, there is a good model shop in Ashton in Makerfield, >>Unit 21 Greensway Shopping Centre, 34 Gerard St, Ashton-in-Makerfield, Wigan WN4 9AE with plenty of free parking
Whilst I was just as shocked as everyone else about the sudden decision to close down Hattons, I am in no way surprised by this. In fact I think it's fair to say that the cancellation of the Beilhack Snowploughs & the Plasser 12 ton crane was an early sign of worse things to come for them. It's obvious that the increase in price + the low demand forced Hattons to cancel the projects simply because it was not financially viable to move into the later stages of development such as early production & decorated samples. It's also not helped by the fact Bachmann were to stop supplying their future releases to Hattons because of the row they had (apparently) over the development of the Hattons Originals Class 66 plus various other sales agreements that were breached over the years. It has just meant that there's been way less option available on Hatton's website as a result of that. Lastly, their pre-owned section pricing policies are an utter joke now, back then you could actually get some fantastic bargains from the pre owned section & coaches could be picked up for less than £25 but now a damaged Heljan loco with mazak rot is apparently worth over £80 now? Yeah I don't get the logic with that either, but oh well. Sad times for the hobby for sure, Hattons in some way or another will be missed but I'll like everyone else take my business (and my money) elsewhere.
Hi Dawn, gutted. I returned to the hobby in 2020 and have been using Hattons as great value & customer service. My Genesis coaches are great models. So sad for the staff, but as others have written, look after your local model shops. Cheers David.
Very sad news. Even I have bought from them, they have filled gaps in my T-Gauge requirements. Mainly trees and landscape, but there were other accessories, brickwork, paving, plus tools. They are a fixture in the model railway world. I feel as upset when my local model shop shut, leaving us with no place to go and buy. Years before the internet.
Feel sad for them always liked there prices for model trains got a few things over the years from the shop online was handy as n Scotland there hardly any model railway shops to go to now
Very sad. As a continental, Hattons has been my gateway into UK model trains, and one of my most reliable retailer. They have also recently been an interesting manufacturer with excellent models., I have bought some. Hope other retailers can take the job.
I think maybe the days of big box shifters is coming to end as many now buying direct from the manufacturers. Myself included on occasion. Maybe smaller shops that focus on the stuff that make our layouts look the part that we want to get on with in the moment will fair better.
Received an email from them about this, that came as a bit of a shock for sure. I have seen a few small shops close in the past few years but wasn’t expecting this. Sad and bad news indeed for the hobby.
Very sad, I had been thinking of getting back into the hobby but when I saw how much things cost I decided against it. My main reason being that I did not see the price of rolling stock and locos as good value. To get back to N scale version of what I had 40 years ago would cost 6K pounds and I have many other hobbies that give more active fun for less.
I have to agree with you all -I started again 4 years ago, I've only bought 3 new locos, 2 tank engines and a diesel in N Gauge, the rest are used Farish duchess and minitrix mallards, 9F's etc, all in. good nick, and a raft of coaches, trucks, wagons etc, loads of track all new, etc, I am on my 4th Layout attempt, having finally discovered how to lay the track reliably, but so far have spent £13,000 plus, ( so my wife informs me- she pays the card bills every month), and still the layout is not fully working, but hopefully there is not much more money needed, just time, and as I'm retired it will be finished by the end of this year, and I am pleased that I bought all the Rolling stock early on as prices have increased dramatically since covid buggered things up.
I always wondered if they would survive after Bachmann and Hornby restricted/withdrew from supplying them…. Will be missed, they were the cheapest postage costs to Australia…
Very sad news, i first went to Hattons' shop on Smithdown Road Liverpool back in the early 90s. I have to say though that the pricing of some of their used "bargains" was was on the high side, particularly for items that were broken or had parts missing. I suppose that many modellers have had to make difficult choices over whether to buy a new model or heat their homes - the cost of living is bound to have an impact with less disposable income to spend on hobbies.
Now that I'm getting old I finally have the time, and money, and a basement, to start being serious about this. Even though I live in America I chose to model British trains, just because the locomotives are so diverse and special. Sadly, it appears to be a supply problem. Many of the thing I want are unavailable, either out of stock or on order. By the way, the prices are alright, a high quality Orient Express set in HO, made by Roco, costs $1500 - for loco and seven cars.
Still plenty of good online resources like Rails of Sheffield. A shame Hattons couldn't remain profitable. When they moved away from Liverpool to Widnes (or was it Runcorn) it was a very out of the way location to visit and more suited to online orders only.
Very sad from us down under not sure where we are with our orders already locked in and confirmed. I have been waiting for a mix of new and secondhand items normally should have arrived by now but delays expected because of Christmas.
Living in Spain, prior to Brexit, I used to purchase hundreds of pounds of model railway items each year. During Brexit negotiations, I emailed Hattons asking whether they would be opening an Ireland or French depots to over come the double VAT and input duty. They responded by saying that they had organised a wallet system. No good for me. I have even had to purchase a Peco item from Poland. Now I purchase zero items from Hattons.
Sad news indeed, but it's been a while since I've viewed Hatton's as the cheapest retailer. Some of the prices for their used stock is astonishingly astronomical.
@@Poliss95 The hobby has been shrinking for at least a decade if not more, I got fed up with trying to compete with Hattons, looking at their accounts I often wondered how they did it, £13m turnover and only £500k gross profit, after tax losses of £96k no small company can afford that. I'm not one for rumours, but there rumbles in the trade that their 2nd hand stock became less reliable, and they suffered from a lot of returns, the prolonged fight with Bachmann didn't help either I suspect. I don't think many small High St traders will be shedding tears for them
"Gutted" as they say. I purchased around 80% of my stuff by them. I notice they didn't say that the Bachmann split was a contributory factor ? I suppose as they were the largest retailer the spin off from then closing will mean that their largest share will be filtered around all the others. The question is who will be next ? Doing their own developments in China may have been a final straw ? It didn't work for DJ models.
My goodness and I really started to think thanks to the likes of Waterman, old Rod Stewart and the like, TV docus etc that this rather old fashioned hobby was enjoying a new lease of life....terrible news indeed.
It was a business decision and nothing to do with Brexit!. I wish you lot would give it a rest. You don't see brexit voters banging on about it every day now do you?
UK has still not achieved the clean Brexit expected. More than half of those voting chose 'leave', in the interest of continued UK sovereign existence; nothing else matters.
Extremely shocking & sad news. I remember the shock when Beatties folded. Who's next? However, I have Hatton's on a shortcut on all my devices, and check prices on their website whenever I'm looking to buy an item. Sadly, my purchases from them have been few & far between for the last couple of years. I have found TMC, Rails, Kernow,.Clark Railworks (for used items) & even some small local shops more competitive, for both new and used items. Still, I wish all the staff the best for the future. I always found them knowledgeable and helpful whenever I contacted the company.
How very sad for the modal Railway world but what do you expect when the costs continue to forever spiral out off control Hornby Bachman Dapol ever increasing Prices Then there are the rising overhead costs etc I feel fore the hobbies future
Not hattons ! Next it will be hornby then Bachman then peco I liked their own models of the little tank engines hopefully when the hobby grows they will come back.
True, but if you are a manufacturer whom has had prior financial gremlins and had a significant amount of profile and sales from this particular retailer eg Hornby, then the closure of your possibly biggest sales outlet for your brand is not going to do you any favours.
What a shame - I think it is more to do with the prices of model railway stock. Most of the new DCC tech has forced the prices up along with the increased level of detail. Some of the new models are fantastic but the prices are so high. Does any manufacturer produce models in the country now? Or is our hobby in the hands of the Chinese along with everything else? Time for a change. Very sad news!
A sad end for a long established business that was started my Norman Hatton in 1946. He bought i large quantities and then sold them slowly so as not to flood the market. Going by the limted range in their closing down sale, it appears that they are doing the same again. In the short trem the likes of Rails of Sheffield will be picking up sales that Hattons would have filled. But as prices continue to soar and demand drops i disagree with the experts prediction that the hobby will grow. Over £200 for a locomotive is far too much, there is a 100% markup on all the stock that the retailers sell, so if Hattons are saying that the future is not viable, the others will have to do the same.
I note their leading reason was Brexit. I, too, closed a company (end of 2022) that was profitable, but Brexit was increasing direct costs and increased admin etc. The other lie was they "got Brexit done" They haven't and new barriers and costs were and still are coming in. So we stopped before the Ballance was tipped. A good decision as there is still more to come. This pattern is being repeated all over for SME's in GB. SO those of you who voted for Brexit have had a hand in causing this company to close.
As a business owner you have directly explained the impact on businesses of Brexit. You are spot on. Thank you. I hope those who deny the impact of leaving Europe read your comment as many people are in denial or choose to not look at the facts.
@@geordieceltic2 The problem is Brexit was masked by COVID and that the problems came in, and are still coming in, slowly since the UK left. We still don't have all the import things fully implemented. I work in an industry that was not particularly affected by COVID, so we saw the reality of Brexit. It has hit GB SME's very hard. The big corporations that have big imported/export departments and legal teams that dealt with lots of countries outside the EU were affected less than the SMEs in that respect. However, many large industries are pan-European, e.g. Automotive, aerospace, defence etc. They still are. The problem is pan-European == EU these days. So many of these companies are moving out or scaling down UK operations. For Example. JLR has moved R&D from the UK to the EU and opened up plants in the EU for Range Rovers. When people said the EU want "our" (UK) cars they did. They simply moved the factories to the EU.
UK has still not achieved the clean Brexit expected. More than half of those voting chose 'leave', in the interest of continued UK sovereign existence. Nothing else matters.
@@EllieMaes-Grandad Then the UK is worse off since Brexit. As, 50% of the UK trade is with the EU and the UK has to work to EU rules, the UK is no longer a rule maker but a rule taker. The UK borders are LESS secure (according to Met Police MI5 and MI6), and there is now an internal border between GB and NI. The UK has less control than it had in the EU.
Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving. There is only one manufacturer I deal with at the moment which is RevolutioN as they allow “pick up” . This allows me to “smuggle” my trains into Europe.
Why it is not solvent and why close it down? Why Hattons didn’t think of their loyal staff. It is very selfish of Hattons to close down a thriving world class model railway business. It should carry on for sake of the loyal staff. It’s second hand market is the best. Why close? What for? Brexit? Please reconsider.
4 yrs ago governments told companies to get out of china due to the ccp - which they have been at least they have done some thing right - hence every one say supply chain disruption its not bussiness in china have shut or moved out or been set fire too -- we just hope they dont move to india or pakistan or mexico for that matter they need to bring it back into the uk were it started
That was the story in the early 1960s. I was there then and still am now, as are many others. Scalextric was the alleged demon back then; where is it now?
If you look at hobbies beyond model railways, it’s even more catastrophic, EG in cycling it’s not an ordered wind down, major brands are going bust every week and it’s being repeated in multiple hobbies worldwide. Hattons are being very smart by withdrawing with dignity and not leaving customers high and dry. Hattons have been part of the hobby longer than I have been alive, sad to see them leave
Shocking and sad news - I feel bad for the helpful, knowledgeable staff who now all have to look for new jobs at a difficult time, and it's a huge shame that such a longstanding company that has served multiple generations over almost eight decades, even after innovating and tweaking the business to move with the times, will soon be no more.
Its nice to see another "real" woman who is into railway modelling. I will send a link to my young daughter who will be pleased to follow you. Shame about Hattons tho. Model railway shops up and down the land need our support.
They made a 400K loss in their last published accounts, the Bachmann spat and Hornby and the new players wanting to sell direct to control prices, added to the fact that few people have enough disposable income to spend £250 on a locomotive. It's sad but I'm not really surprised.
I have used Hattons on the ODD occasion but I am a big supporter of my local shops in Suffolk and Norfolk who always give their regular customers an extra discount. Support your local shops as you may have to now!
I have been to Hattons on a trip to UK in 2014, and purchased a large order which they sent away on the date I nominated, so that it did not reach New Zealand before we returned. I have bought online from them previous to that and since. I don’t understand remarks that their customer service had gone downhill. I had to return an item that did not work which the manufacturer would not do. A new item was returned to me within the usual timespan of no more than 14 days. I have subsequently made enquires about their stock, and also corrected a mistake in their advertising within the last six months, all was dealt with courtesy and quickly.
Thank you Hattons for the 20 years of excellent service.
My hope is that all the owners and staff can go on to find work in the future.
I live here in New Zealand and Hattons have been my go to site for sourcing all sorts of model railway stuff. On hearing that they are closing i was taken aback and a sense of sadness came over me...bugger!....!!
5 years ago Hatton's was my gateway back into model trains after I'd forgotten about trains for 10 years, and from that so much of what I have today came from there. Massive shock that they're closing
The Hatton's database is a hugely important & useful resource. Hope it can be saved.
Saved? It's valuable and will be sold.
@@EllieMaes-Grandad Hope you're right.
This is by far the best view of the sad situation! Thank you!😢
Sorry to hear this, great customer service over the years. Excellent delivery to Ireland. They'll be missed.
There is a story here, and hopefully someone will explore it. It is only Hattons UK which is starting to wind up its retail business. Model Trains and Stuff a major USA online retailer (which just closed it bricks and mortar premises) and Heartland Hobby Wholesalers (HHW) both owned by Hattons are continuing to trade. So the Hattons empire will continue but not in the UK, unless they have some new business enterprise planned. As Hatton's used acquisitions as a way of creating its US based business, who knows they may use a similar strategy in the UK to in effect rebrand itself.
Very interesting . . . . are we not getting the real story?
Bit of a shock, but not surprised, model prices going through the roof , even for 2nd hand. With a cost of living crisis, times are tough ,support your local model shop if you can
Yes I was very put off with the prices of their 3nd hand models had a very good box.
I live in Belgium. I used to spend around 4000 pounds a year with Hattons, who were my go to retailer pre Brexit. In the early post Brexit time they were easier to deal with than others and my shipments got delivered quickly. In the last year however the wheels have come off that service, and even before this i had decided that they would no longer be my supplier of choice.
Honestly, from France, Hattons had been my gateway, but others have put forward interesting offers, The Model Centre for instance.
Also, you have UK retailers who were selling abroad who ceased to do so, like Model Railways Direct in Wales, due to the hassle with red tape.
For UK models on the continent, you still have Modellbahn Union in Germany if you want some OO scale models.
Another thing, AU now get overseas suppliers to charge GST on everything (used to be over 1000 dollars) and that takes a lot of paperwork, and then it has to be remited to the Australian goverment. i can imagine the paperwork nightmare.
Yep, just got an email from Hattons 3 weeks ago that due to New Zealand GST legislation they will be required to
apply the 15% GST at point of checkout but gave me a 7 day grace window to clear and dispatch my overflowing trunk. Awesome retailer, awesome sales team, will be sadly missed!
Railway Modeller magazine will miss their advertising revenue .
thanks for the clarification. have been a customer since 1960s
I find this really worrying for the hobby. Hattons is probably the largest UK retailer for model railways, so if they can't balance the books, I'm wondering how other traders are managing.
indeed
@@rivergladesgardenrailroad8834But they are not insolvent
They CAN balance the books, but they are predicting that in the future they will not be able to make enough sales. Very sad.
I’m also sad that I placed a big order only a few days ago and now all that track is 30% off.
@@RabidWombatz
That could happen at any time like Black Friday, Boxing Day, etc. Dry your eyes.
My very first model (Hornby HO of course) was purchased by my father for me, in 1958, and shipped from Liverpool to K.L (Malaya) in time for Christmas. Thank you Hattons fro being part of my life :(
Being from Minnesota in the U.S., my knowledge of Hattons is limited to what I’ve picked up over the last ten minutes but I can say their closing is part of a distressing trend in our hobby as the number of modelers leaving the hobby far outweigh the number joining it. Blame who you will and I can see there are all kinds of villains to point a finger at, but Hattons is being remarkably honest about their logic in closing and that’s admirable. They can see what’s coming. I guess in 1:1 railroading it would be called “rationalizing the fixed plant to serve the market.” It’s ironic that if you have the money, today is the golden age of model railroading as it’s unlikely there are many more technological miracles to come. If you don’t have the money-like me-you might be an analog oddity in a digital world. I’m seeing sort of the same painful shrinkage in another hobby of mine which is bowling. In both of them the same trend is apparent; it has gotten unbelievably expensive to do what I like to do!
Memories. I used to visit the shop on Smithdown Road often. I remember buying a Scalextric car for £1.50.
This is what happens when the likes of Hornby and Bachmann are allowed to get away with price gouging
If more people would buy, they wouldn't have to "gouge"
Folks, we're not talking about milk and eggs here. If you think the price is unreasonable don't buy it. Nobody HAS to buy a model train.
@@ThruAWiderLens Let me ask you a question. If it comes down to either a) paying your rent/mortgage/electricity/gas/water/council tax bill or buying a Locomotive, which one do you choose?
The fact is, the manufacturers are pricing the retailers & customers out of the hobby.
@@LSPhotography Agreed. Especially selling Ali Express quality at German prices (Bachmann is an expert in this area), having models with faulty motors or outdated drivetrains sold the same price as recent Roco engines, etc... It does not help, especially retailers. I had started UK model trains more than ten years ago, and OO scale specifically five years ago and, honestly, if I would have to start from scratch today, I would stick to continental models due to numerous issues with UK models.
You will find people ready to pay the price if the quality is there. If this is not the case, so, the sales goes down. And retailers are the collateral damage of this policy.
@@LSPhotography You raise a legitimate point. Locomotives are way too expensive in general. That said, a price range is available to consumers, from higher end Accurascale or Heljan locos to less detailed Railroad Range or used, for example. My point is that--obviously--if more of each individual unit were purchased by the public, prices would come down (as they have, say, for flat screen televisions). There just aren't enough buyers out there. I don't think it's the manufacturers' fault.
To answer your question: Yep, I'd pay the rent.
Hi Dawn, thank you for putting this explanation out. It really is very sad and disturbing news.
I am stunned. Hattons is the biggest Model Railway retailer in the UK. If they think there isn't a market then what does this say about the hobby? The silver lining here is that other retailers just lost the Goliath in the retail space, so they should see higher revenues.
you mean they will all be rushing to hike their prices!
It was a total shock when the email dropped into my inbox yesterday evening from Hattons with the news of the forthcoming closure
Cannot believe it; please come back in the future...somehow...
OMG! really in shock! What terribly sad news! & where will we get our model trains & hobby accessories now???
Thank you, Hattons, for so many years of great service. You will be very, very missed by this customer in the USA.
I used to go to Hattons a lot when I visted Liverpool and they never should have moved from their wonderful store in Allerton to that awful, soulless and retail/browsing unfriendly industial unit in that area off the motorway.
When they first moved to the awful industrial estate I was talking to the lads there and they said it was because of mail order dominated their business model now, and they needed a warehouse more than a shop. All the glass cabinets around the walls filled with high end stuff and a small oval of track on the counter for testing. No acessories shopping experience. So stale and just puts anyone off the hobby from getting involved. Not even dioramas or demo layouts to inspire folks. Just 'STOCK'. Argos Model Trains felt like.
I also used to visit Hattons quite often if I was in Liverpool. Another issue with going to the industrial unit at Widnes is that it's pretty much impossible to get to if you don't have a car. I think there was no pedestrian access to the site.
yes it was miles from the nearest bus stop @@skin150263
That news certainly caught me by suprise 🥺
Really enjoying your channel. I think this is the first shakeout not the last in the hobby driven by the endless search for more detailed and specific models, driving up model costs exponentially. Luckily I could afford to buy the latest stuff at the latest prices, but I don’t. I started in the 1990s when Hornby top link in the brown box rivalled Lima in the blue box for which one could run the worse! When production moved to China, there was a spectacular improvement in detail and quality of running. Anything made 2005 to 2015 normally runs great has great detail and at normal viewing distance is indistinguishable from the current super detail stuff. The actual market for, and margins to be made on for example Hornby’s 900 variations of class 5 must be peanuts for them and the retailers. I used Hattons in the uk and internationally for many years. They are a great company but if they fail others will too. Then the you tube reviewers pushing for endless extra details will rue the day…..sad for Hattons and us all.
That's going to take a ton of advertising revenue away from the magazines.
Very sad - a model railway institution.
Iam here in the states, I have heard of them.i just discovered your channel. I just subscribed.
Thank you for subscribing.
How sad Dawn, I remember when Beatties of Holborn closed. PS: The freight from USA to Australia is still 3 times what it was before covid. Even a Soundcard decoded, the size of a matchbox is 200USA POSTAGE. used to be 60....outrageous.
For the postage, you can't have anything from the USA with a postage below 50 USD here, in Europe. By chance, I have a German retailer available for the few US models I buy in N scale.
they are obviously taking advantage of you. I regularly watch an Australian engineering firm on youtube (Cutting edge engineering) and he gets parcels from all over the world for himself, wife and the safety mutt Homey. You can't tell me that someone is going to pay $200 to post something from the US to Australia worth $20 at best!
Hi Dawn. I've done a reasonable amount of business (not exclusively) with Hattons, so - like others- the news has come as a shock with sadness that they are to close. As Hatton has said, they are not insolvent, but have decided to quit the modelling market in an orderly way before things really get bad. Having said that, and I'm no financial Wizz kid in business, I still don't quite understand the situation. There has been no mention of attempts to sell the business on to someone who may have ideas as to how to survive the "storm". Unfortunately, it is mostly small, high-street retailers who fall by the wayside as they struggle to compete against the big boys. Yes, they have a store, but it is not so little and they appear to have a good online business. Little Wicket has just released a similar video showing that, while the UK market shrank a little between 2021 and 2022, their business with the EU and the rest of the world increased. Who's next!?
This!!!!! Why no one sold the business to reorganise it.
😢 sad for the loyal staff who have served the company so well
What a profound shock!
Oh my, this is a shock… it’s not just a store, it’s a manufacturer too… some great loco’s under their belts… I wonder what’s going to happen to those… will other manufacturers take them up?
For those near Wigan, there is a good model shop in Ashton in Makerfield, >>Unit 21 Greensway Shopping Centre, 34 Gerard St, Ashton-in-Makerfield, Wigan WN4 9AE with plenty of free parking
First of many i fear, younger generation dont have the money with todays prices of locos and rolling stock.
Whilst I was just as shocked as everyone else about the sudden decision to close down Hattons, I am in no way surprised by this. In fact I think it's fair to say that the cancellation of the Beilhack Snowploughs & the Plasser 12 ton crane was an early sign of worse things to come for them.
It's obvious that the increase in price + the low demand forced Hattons to cancel the projects simply because it was not financially viable to move into the later stages of development such as early production & decorated samples.
It's also not helped by the fact Bachmann were to stop supplying their future releases to Hattons because of the row they had (apparently) over the development of the Hattons Originals Class 66 plus various other sales agreements that were breached over the years. It has just meant that there's been way less option available on Hatton's website as a result of that.
Lastly, their pre-owned section pricing policies are an utter joke now, back then you could actually get some fantastic bargains from the pre owned section & coaches could be picked up for less than £25 but now a damaged Heljan loco with mazak rot is apparently worth over £80 now? Yeah I don't get the logic with that either, but oh well.
Sad times for the hobby for sure, Hattons in some way or another will be missed but I'll like everyone else take my business (and my money) elsewhere.
Agree with you re used prices: eye watering!
Hi Dawn, gutted. I returned to the hobby in 2020 and have been using Hattons as great value & customer service. My Genesis coaches are great models. So sad for the staff, but as others have written, look after your local model shops. Cheers David.
I thought the genesis coaches would be a huge success, but Hornby beat them to it. Not unreasonable, given the snails pace of Hattons.
I think the Genesis were better models though@@EllieMaes-Grandad
Very sad news. Even I have bought from them, they have filled gaps in my T-Gauge requirements. Mainly trees and landscape, but there were other accessories, brickwork, paving, plus tools. They are a fixture in the model railway world. I feel as upset when my local model shop shut, leaving us with no place to go and buy. Years before the internet.
This is a tragedy. Hattons is my go-to for N scale track and accessories and I’m in Australia.
Feel sad for them always liked there prices for model trains got a few things over the years from the shop online was handy as n Scotland there hardly any model railway shops to go to now
Very sad. As a continental, Hattons has been my gateway into UK model trains, and one of my most reliable retailer. They have also recently been an interesting manufacturer with excellent models., I have bought some. Hope other retailers can take the job.
Very sad news for the hobby and the staff at Hattons
I think maybe the days of big box shifters is coming to end as many now buying direct from the manufacturers. Myself included on occasion. Maybe smaller shops that focus on the stuff that make our layouts look the part that we want to get on with in the moment will fair better.
Received an email from them about this, that came as a bit of a shock for sure. I have seen a few small shops close in the past few years but wasn’t expecting this. Sad and bad news indeed for the hobby.
Sad but good for other shops as the money will be spent somewhere🤷🏼♂️
Very sad, I had been thinking of getting back into the hobby but when I saw how much things cost I decided against it. My main reason being that I did not see the price of rolling stock and locos as good value. To get back to N scale version of what I had 40 years ago would cost 6K pounds and I have many other hobbies that give more active fun for less.
Exactly why I haven't come back to the hobby. A boat was a cheaper option!
You are spot on
I have to agree with you all -I started again 4 years ago, I've only bought 3 new locos, 2 tank engines and a diesel in N Gauge, the rest are used Farish duchess and minitrix mallards, 9F's etc, all in. good nick, and a raft of coaches, trucks, wagons etc, loads of track all new, etc, I am on my 4th Layout attempt, having finally discovered how to lay the track reliably, but so far have spent £13,000 plus, ( so my wife informs me- she pays the card bills every month), and still the layout is not fully working, but hopefully there is not much more money needed, just time, and as I'm retired it will be finished by the end of this year, and I am pleased that I bought all the Rolling stock early on as prices have increased dramatically since covid buggered things up.
I always wondered if they would survive after Bachmann and Hornby restricted/withdrew from supplying them…. Will be missed, they were the cheapest postage costs to Australia…
I just finally took the plunge and finally bought some coaches as my first order this Sunday after hearing such great word of mouth. This sucks
I knew it! Take note u s stores. Was expectinhg thos for a long time.prices have become rediculous.
Very sad news, i first went to Hattons' shop on Smithdown Road Liverpool back in the early 90s. I have to say though that the pricing of some of their used "bargains" was was on the high side, particularly for items that were broken or had parts missing. I suppose that many modellers have had to make difficult choices over whether to buy a new model or heat their homes - the cost of living is bound to have an impact with less disposable income to spend on hobbies.
Bottom line is Hattons made a loss of 96K before tax in 2022. I'm assuming the position hadn't improved in the last financial year - hence closure 😢
More to the point in 2022 they made an operating loss of £403,471 thats a big drop compared to an operating profit of £448,974 in 2021
That is very sad news but inevitable as we are in a recession and it will get much worse!
We’re not in a recession at the moment!
Just a comment about what you said 'Experts predict that model railways hobby is going to grow......' Can I ask where you got this information?
From a number of global market trends reports - a quick search on google will show you. Also insiders I speak to in the industry.
@@modelrailwayquest yeah, thanks for that, the growth driven by the use of technology is of particular interest to me.
@@dougattrenholmebar as it will be - and should be - to manufacturers and retailers, if they want to keep pace with a younger market!
I am from Australia buy stuff from Hattons ,am surprised to hear this
hi, in France and Belgium, there are also stores and brands that are not doing well 😕😕
Terrible, Shocking, Saddening!!! We can only hope this is NOT a trend in the industry!!!
Now that I'm getting old I finally have the time, and money, and a basement, to start being serious about this. Even though I live in America I chose to model British trains, just because the locomotives are so diverse and special. Sadly, it appears to be a supply problem. Many of the thing I want are unavailable, either out of stock or on order. By the way, the prices are alright, a high quality Orient Express set in HO, made by Roco, costs $1500 - for loco and seven cars.
Terrible news. The owners have done the right thing, shutting down honourably, but I feel so sorry for the staff.
A shock and a shame... 😢
As an international customer, sad to hear that they have made the decision to close shop.
Very sad news. Hattons has always been my ‘go to’ supplier 😕
Thank the Chancellor. If we in the EU order, we have to pay EURO-VAT plus UK-VAT, which doubles the cost.
Sad news, have ordered from them from Canada and had no problems
Still plenty of good online resources like Rails of Sheffield. A shame Hattons couldn't remain profitable. When they moved away from Liverpool to Widnes (or was it Runcorn) it was a very out of the way location to visit and more suited to online orders only.
Very sad from us down under not sure where we are with our orders already locked in and confirmed. I have been waiting for a mix of new and secondhand items normally should have arrived by now but delays expected because of Christmas.
Even if I live in Italy I've been one of their customers. That's very sad.
Loved to buy 00 Gauge models but after Brexit the cost to import them turned me away
it's interesting that they are closing since they just bought M.B. KLIENS hobbies in the US.
as Hatton... it's a bit sad though I live in the States
It's a shame I used to go when they were in Liverpool at the big shop on the corner then went to widnes
Living in Spain, prior to Brexit, I used to purchase hundreds of pounds of model railway items each year. During Brexit negotiations, I emailed Hattons asking whether they would be opening an Ireland or French depots to over come the double VAT and input duty. They responded by saying that they had organised a wallet system. No good for me. I have even had to purchase a Peco item from Poland. Now I purchase zero items from Hattons.
Good news for all the other independent stores, no longer will they hear "Can you match Hattons"?
Sad news indeed, but it's been a while since I've viewed Hatton's as the cheapest retailer. Some of the prices for their used stock is astonishingly astronomical.
@@Poliss95 The hobby has been shrinking for at least a decade if not more, I got fed up with trying to compete with Hattons, looking at their accounts I often wondered how they did it, £13m turnover and only £500k gross profit, after tax losses of £96k no small company can afford that. I'm not one for rumours, but there rumbles in the trade that their 2nd hand stock became less reliable, and they suffered from a lot of returns, the prolonged fight with Bachmann didn't help either I suspect. I don't think many small High St traders will be shedding tears for them
@@Poliss95 I don't think so, those that buy new will find other outlets, Kernow for one must be rubbing their hands along with Rails of Sheffield.
"Gutted" as they say. I purchased around 80% of my stuff by them. I notice they didn't say that the Bachmann split was a contributory factor ? I suppose as they were the largest retailer the spin off from then closing will mean that their largest share will be filtered around all the others. The question is who will be next ?
Doing their own developments in China may have been a final straw ? It didn't work for DJ models.
My goodness and I really started to think thanks to the likes of Waterman, old Rod Stewart and the like, TV docus etc that this rather old fashioned hobby was enjoying a new lease of life....terrible news indeed.
One swallow doesn’t make a summer….money will be spent elsewhere
One of the biggest impacts is Brexit.
All roads leading to the demise of SME's.
Sad times indeed.
IrishRail Retired modeler.
🇮🇪
It was a business decision and nothing to do with Brexit!. I wish you lot would give it a rest. You don't see brexit voters banging on about it every day now do you?
Just that they mentioned Brexit as a factor on their own statement but don't let facts get in the way of feelings
UK has still not achieved the clean Brexit expected. More than half of those voting chose 'leave', in the interest of continued UK sovereign existence; nothing else matters.
@@EllieMaes-Grandad
Damn!! Now I've got "nothing else matters" on repeat in my addled brain... could be worse... a lot worse I guess
Whatever happens, it should be decided by British people, not apparatchiks in €Urope. @@micknotfromleitrim
So I have just ordered some stuff off them I will still get it won’t iBill
Is it just the shop or the entire thing?
UK operations. They own several businesses in the US which will continue as I understand it.
Does that include the website?
Genuinely saddened to hear this.
Extremely shocking & sad news. I remember the shock when Beatties folded. Who's next?
However, I have Hatton's on a shortcut on all my devices, and check prices on their website whenever I'm looking to buy an item. Sadly, my purchases from them have been few & far between for the last couple of years. I have found TMC, Rails, Kernow,.Clark Railworks (for used items) & even some small local shops more competitive, for both new and used items.
Still, I wish all the staff the best for the future. I always found them knowledgeable and helpful whenever I contacted the company.
What a shame, been on RM pages since I was a kid
Heavy news .
Bit of a shocker that one
How very sad for the modal Railway world but what do you expect when the costs continue to forever spiral out off control Hornby Bachman Dapol ever increasing Prices Then there are the rising overhead costs etc I feel fore the hobbies future
Such a shame, but sadly nothing lasts forever.
Such a shame😢
Probably China supply problems and costs.
Not hattons ! Next it will be hornby then Bachman then peco I liked their own models of the little tank engines hopefully when the hobby grows they will come back.
These aren't even the same kind of businesses though, right? Hattons is just a place where those marks are sold.
hopefully not PECO, as I believe their business model still works...
True, but if you are a manufacturer whom has had prior financial gremlins and had a significant amount of profile and sales from this particular retailer eg Hornby, then the closure of your possibly biggest sales outlet for your brand is not going to do you any favours.
@@Poliss95 thanks for making sure I knew!
What a shame - I think it is more to do with the prices of model railway stock. Most of the new DCC tech has forced the prices up along with the increased level of detail. Some of the new models are fantastic but the prices are so high. Does any manufacturer produce models in the country now? Or is our hobby in the hands of the Chinese along with everything else? Time for a change. Very sad news!
A sad end for a long established business that was started my Norman Hatton in 1946.
He bought i large quantities and then sold them slowly so as not to flood the market.
Going by the limted range in their closing down sale, it appears that they are doing the same again.
In the short trem the likes of Rails of Sheffield will be picking up sales that Hattons would have filled.
But as prices continue to soar and demand drops i disagree with the experts prediction that the hobby
will grow.
Over £200 for a locomotive is far too much, there is a 100% markup on all the stock that the retailers
sell, so if Hattons are saying that the future is not viable, the others will have to do the same.
I note their leading reason was Brexit. I, too, closed a company (end of 2022) that was profitable, but Brexit was increasing direct costs and increased admin etc. The other lie was they "got Brexit done" They haven't and new barriers and costs were and still are coming in. So we stopped before the Ballance was tipped. A good decision as there is still more to come.
This pattern is being repeated all over for SME's in GB. SO those of you who voted for Brexit have had a hand in causing this company to close.
As a business owner you have directly explained the impact on businesses of Brexit. You are spot on. Thank you. I hope those who deny the impact of leaving Europe read your comment as many people are in denial or choose to not look at the facts.
@@geordieceltic2 The problem is Brexit was masked by COVID and that the problems came in, and are still coming in, slowly since the UK left. We still don't have all the import things fully implemented. I work in an industry that was not particularly affected by COVID, so we saw the reality of Brexit. It has hit GB SME's very hard. The big corporations that have big imported/export departments and legal teams that dealt with lots of countries outside the EU were affected less than the SMEs in that respect. However, many large industries are pan-European, e.g. Automotive, aerospace, defence etc. They still are. The problem is pan-European == EU these days. So many of these companies are moving out or scaling down UK operations. For Example. JLR has moved R&D from the UK to the EU and opened up plants in the EU for Range Rovers. When people said the EU want "our" (UK) cars they did. They simply moved the factories to the EU.
UK has still not achieved the clean Brexit expected. More than half of those voting chose 'leave', in the interest of continued UK sovereign existence. Nothing else matters.
@@EllieMaes-Grandad Then the UK is worse off since Brexit. As, 50% of the UK trade is with the EU and the UK has to work to EU rules, the UK is no longer a rule maker but a rule taker. The UK borders are LESS secure (according to Met Police MI5 and MI6), and there is now an internal border between GB and NI. The UK has less control than it had in the EU.
The UK has more control now - but it isn't being used, deliberately and malevolently so. @@JAmediaUK
Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving. There is only one manufacturer I deal with at the moment which is RevolutioN as they allow “pick up” . This allows me to “smuggle” my trains into Europe.
UK has still not achieved the clean Brexit expected.
Why it is not solvent and why close it down? Why Hattons didn’t think of their loyal staff. It is very selfish of Hattons to close down a thriving world class model railway business. It should carry on for sake of the loyal staff. It’s second hand market is the best. Why close? What for? Brexit? Please reconsider.
4 yrs ago governments told companies to get out of china due to the ccp - which they have been at least they have done some thing right - hence every one say supply chain disruption its not bussiness in china have shut or moved out or been set fire too -- we just hope they dont move to india or pakistan or mexico for that matter they need to bring it back into the uk were it started
It’s also a demographic issue. The younger generations just aren’t as enthusiastic as previous generations.
That was the story in the early 1960s. I was there then and still am now, as are many others. Scalextric was the alleged demon back then; where is it now?
No surprise to me, its customer service was absolutely shocking and tbh disgusting .
What a shame😮💨