As a woofer, i disagree sir! We find your regular speaking voices too loud as it is - we do not want to be associated with extremely loud bass! We'd rather sniff your bottom :3 we know what you had for breakfast the past week...
The best sounding band-pass I heard used a dayton dcs255 classic 10" really similar to a jbl gto 10". They are xmax limited so they struggle below 35 hz but they have some of the lowest group delay you can find in a band-pass without giving up efficiency. I ended up using it in a 6th order in my daily driver and sacrificing a tiny amount of sound quality for the ability to play some decaf when I feel like it. Another cool thing is they still play high enough that if you are on a tight budget you don't have to upgrade your mids and highs, the classic 10" can play mid-bass even in a band-pass.
I love the fact at 9 minutes and 25 seconds you mentioned the smell of coils. When you're smelling your coils that means that the show is about over. Time to choose push it and have to recone your s*** or turn it down and take your score.
Thank you very much for this info. I built a few small band pass enclosures for my truck using help from your video and made alterations to practice these changes in tuning. I am now comfortable with this type of enclosure and building a steel framed 1.5 to 1 ratio enclosure for six 15’s to go in the bed of my truck. Thank you for helping me with this project!
Adding more shit doesn't make it better a well designed system doesn't need all that crap NO resistors that's just a copout that you couldn't take the time to design test and tweak your crossover use an L pad if necessary but just keep your Db's very close & you probably won't need them LESS IS More
I think Bose owns the patent for 6th order bp boxes, that is why many companies call them something else. I don't know if the patent has expired, but Bose used to be aggressive about stopping non-licensed use of this enclosure type.
Hey that's me at 2:28! That's some old pictures and videos from an event in 2018. Car is completely different now! It was a flat ported wall then and is well on its way to becoming a 4th order.
Yeah I popped into the show just to see what was going on When I saw you roll the car off the trailer I knew that I was looking at the loudest car at the show! I grabbed some footage of your run. If you would like the entire clip shoot me an email and I'll send it to you! DIYaudioguy@gmail.com
I remade my own bandpass subwoofer out of a jamo bandpass sub, I GOT A NEW SUB DRIVER, NEW PORT, Tuned crossover for the lows. I will upload a video of it. Plus you got a new subscriber here. 😀😆😃
Thank you for explaining it so well. I've built various enclosures and I always look at the woofer's characteristics to see what type of box is best for that specific woofer. If possible, I prefer to start with measuring the speaker's Theile Small parameters and not using the manufacturer's specs, especially when designing complex bandpass boxes. It's fun to experiment though.
Wow thats the most informative video ive seen in a LONG time. Subscribed. Would love to see videos like this on series and parallel tuned 6th orders, horns and 1/4 wave T-lines. Thanks for sharing!
Good explanation. It still gets deeper which has caused many a grief over the years plus contributed to the bad rap of bandpass. Active filtering and vehicle acoustics should be accounted for in design to extract the most performance while keeping the design practical as well. Many exclude those two things in the design process, but it is very detrimental to the result.
9:17 I thought it should be pointed out that when the woofer is "Inverted" the voice coil also tends to cool better, especially over longer periods of play, because fresh outside air can enter the open chamber and is exchanged with heated air whereas if the voice coil vent (typically through the rear of the magnet structure) is installed into the sealed chamber the inner air continues to heat and becomes a less efficient cooling system.
You the real mvp! So glad there's someone explaining the science in a way we all get! Feeling alot more confident about starting an SQ build now. Was always dubious since most info tailors to SPL.
Hey thanks! Any style of box can be a sound quality box, sound quality gets more complicated as the box gets more complicated. Another thing to keep in mind, I did not talk about it in the video, is group delay. Basically there's going to be a lag between when the signal gets to your subwoofer and when the port produces music. Most of the time this is just the tiniest fraction of a second. But if the group delay gets too big you're going to get a muddy sound. I need to do some research on that and make a video because I'm not quite sure where that threshold is.
@@DIYAudioGuy If you want to hit a wider range of frequency would a bandpass be the best idea then? My goal was to have the sub be able to hit all the low end rather than peaking like my old ported enclosure. Dang even spreading knowledge in the comments good on you! Sounds like a fascinating video can't wait for that!
@@mattsteel7220 My preference is to go with a ported enclosure and tune it low. You'll give up SPL but you'll get more low frequency extension. That's just kind of the trade off.
Thank you. Ports are a coupler. If you stick paper in a port the paper doesn't blow out. It gets stuck and moves back and forth. Because its a cone. Ported enclosures experience higher internal pressures than sealed enclosures
I tuned a 8th order to the opposite of what you showed at the end of the video at 20 hz, and it actually made a very good theatre box it shakes the paintings on my wall with a single shitty 8
@DJ WRAITH just get one comp sub and you'll be happy. its simple and cheap. Box specs are never perfect, most important thing you have to do is tune by ear. My first system was like 400 bucks installed, it lasted me like 8-9 years and it slammed until i fried the amp then the sub. Gonna rebuild the sub at some point hopefully.
I’ve done 4:1 ratio bandpassed with huge range . Ratio can be less important with a well designed bandpass . I had the gain of the extra ported volume but kept the range . I could play 18-55 hz . I see some myths being re enforced in this video that aren’t true as well . There is a lot of physical changes that can be made in the design to combat that “peakyness “ that a lot of people think higher ratio enclosures can give you .
Back in 1987 a friend and me built a box out of 3/4" plywood that barely fit in the trunk of my 78 Buick regal from side to side, we put four 12" woofers side by side and we had no port holes it was air tight and I drove it with a Kenwood 920 amp and it thumped like crazy.
I'm glad you made the qualifiers that you did. Back in the 80's I tried every possible box design in numerous variations. They all stink. Give me 4 Lab-12s in a 4 cu.ft. SEALED BOX. It can't be touched for fidelity, and has equal Output with a Ported Box. (but needs twice the power).
We have a legendary local shop called Toby Speakers. He only builds bandpass enclosures for vehicles using Dayton subwoofers. I have a dual 10” and a 3-12” enclosures made by him. The dual 10 is one of his production boxes called the Hitman. My 3-12s enclosure is a one off he did for me. And let me tell you, they get down
That's awesome! It is smart to go with a builder that has experience making these work, they are tricky. Is he using the Ultimax drivers? The Datyon HO did not model well in a 4th order.
Great video! I love bandpass! Back in 2004 I had a 01 ford Taurus with two 12 inch pioneer impp TSW305Dvc subs in a 1:1 bandpass I built myself. Front&back chambers was 0.9cuft and I use pvc pipe for the port which was 3" x 5" each if I remember right. It's was Amazing! Had that longthrow bass and I used an audio control epicenter too. Sounded Beautiful inside and outside. People would ask me, "how you get your bass to be so deep and low"? Bass is just air and you want to move alot of it. Your sub is an acoustic air pump! So Now I have a jeep grand cherokee with a kicker zx2500.1 and a Soundqubed 15" HDX3 in a ported enclosure. It's beats stupid hard but bandpass have this certain sound that I'm addicted too. I been trying to order another one and build a 4th order wall but their sold out so I'm going to wall it with two Dayton Audio ultimax 18s. I have a 4th program on my PC that I already punch the numbers in and the results are impressive, better than any sub I seen probably because their fs is 19hz. Their louder and more efficient on lows. I can't wait to buy them!
@@DIYAudioGuy yes man especially the SPL subs they once made. It's like they said forget car audio subwoofers! They were made in Mexico at first. Mexico was making them right because I could give them 2x or 3x the power and they would last but then they move everything to China and it all went down hill from there IMO. The spider would rip and cone would rip. They had the best infinite baffle subs period! Man I miss those days
I just got the TX-WX1210AH and it hits hard. Sure you can buy separate components that will beat this but for convenience to take out in 5 seconds and put back in and have some serious hard hitting bass ........well there really is nothing so convenient.
Back in the day, I had a bandpass with 2 10's in it that were low power and I was really surprised at how loud and well it sounded. I've been debating on building one lately for one of the cheaper 300w 10's from china and an equivalent small cheap amp
@@DIYAudioGuy ok. Yeah, we are talking the year 2000, or early 2001. I had the chance to remember and the subs were two 10" kenwood tornado, single voice coil. I think they were rated around 300w peak. The cones faced each other behind plexiglass and the rear was separated and ported. I can't remember the brand of amp, but I think it was 500 watts. That was my first setup. For what it was, I was impressed. After watching a video, I'm realizing that I might have had better performance if I wired them out of phase and makede it isobaric
Diy guy. Me with the Harley trike with sub in trunk. Wondering if this selfpowered sub. The 8” active and 8” passive made by Exoxgear. Comes with 500 watt amp. I have cut a 7-1/4” hole in lid. Perhaps a passive radiator could go here. I could also put a port in the rear wall. So wonder - if the radiator was used exclusively. Would it transfer the sound inside the trike trunk. The trunk measures 2’-6” wide X 12” tall by 10” deep. This is just a temp solution. Could either go 2 ways 1) put 8” subwoofer in lid, and put port into rear wall. 2) keep lid solid, put sub into rear wall and fire into area below seating area.
Efficient to some means highest achievable SPL. efficient to me, means sound output balanced to cover the band of frequencies desired with the least variation. I want the subwoofer to "sit" in the frequency range such that, in concurrence with the other drivers used, the "gap" that i want to fill is evenly filled, it does not run over the midrange or the subsonic transducers. If the subsonic transducers do achieve coverage up to 30Hz, then i want to begin hearing the subwoofer take over at above 30Hz and carry on until it meets up with the midrange driver that most likely will start to dominate above 80Hz. But it depends on the setup. Not the same rules apply for a portable bluetooth as a concert or an audiphile living room or recording studio or car. These crossover frequencies vary greatly depending on overall size, number of "ways" or number of bands covered by transducers. There can be as many as 4 frequency bands covered by the various drivers from subsonic, to sub bass, to midrange and trebble for starters. Varying the bandwidth by compressing it with larger baffle of the exterior chamber doesnt change the efficiency technically. It will over the entire frequency span pretty much generate the same amount of vibration. Its just a matter if it's TUNED to resinate the right set ot frequencies in the right balance. And too sharp or too flat of spectra can both be easy to encounter with just slight variations.
Question…. If you have a woofer that works in a sealed or vented enclosure… can you design the sealed side of the band pass box based on the sealed specs for the woofer and the vented side based on the vented specs? As a starting point/ ballpark?
the way i see is that the sealed portion of the enclosure also needs to bigger to the point it's almost as equal to the other portion of the enclosure. that way bass should be even better.
actually it IS all about ratios but nothing so simple as a single ratio. Loudspeaker enclosures can be modeled as a multi element filter and for a smooth freq response the charts shown in the LDC book are the various tunings for freq & phase response vs efficiency.
I do db contests with an old bandpass woofer Loaded with 2x 12inch. And its an old magnat 2120 with thick 20mm plexi Was thinking about replacing it with multiplex Maxed out on 142db with the original 175w rms woofers and i blew the power caps in my headunit xD
@@DIYAudioGuy they sure can. But like you said. When you get the porting wrong they sound awfull. My mate had a cheap bp and it sounded like he mounted the woofer into a plastic oil drum.
Very interesting and informative content! I just purchased a Dayton Audio 12” HO DVC sub. I’m trying to understand box designs. What box design would you suggest for the best SQ? I have a space 15”W x 32”L x 15”H. My 15”W is fixed but the other dimensions are flexible. This will be placed between my seats in my second row? Thank You in advance for your insight!
Your best bet is to download WINisd and model it. If you don't want to deal with WINisd I offer box design services. Another option is to reach out to parts express' tech support. They are very helpful.
For cheap installs for friends, with maximum perceived 'loudness' along with a nice sound, i'll use a ported and a sealed box with woofers of the same size, sometimes even a 10" sealed and a 12" ported.. Works quite well! ;) I have one of those exact shitty sub enclosures that's scrap, too..might as well burn it? I could have blown its original 10" "woofers" with a head unit lol speaking of frequency response, if you want some great reference speakers that can go down low and way up high (very high bandwidth) look for some KEF Coda III speakers, also Mission 731/750SE Gold and Gale G20 Gold.. I tend to prefer my Rotel or Yamaha amps to drive them all, though i have a few good JVCs and a Kenwood amp too.. And no EQs! And an EVGA Nu Audio Pro 7.1 sound card!
And strangely enough: the KEF speakers i mentioned are sealed, the Gale speakers are ported and i'm using them together as wide stereo monitors.. And an amp per pair now!
Man... I don't miss the days of subs getting stolen out of my Tahoe on a regular basis. I never had decals and they were always covered, but they'd get stolen anyway. I eventually got cheap ones that I could take inside at night until I decided to leave them at home one day. Dang pest control guy stole them from the INSIDE of my apartment.
I need to ask you about my bandpass design I bought I have 2 deaf bonce 3512r bandpass is Front Chamber volume:3.1 cf net. Tuning: 48Hz. Port Area: 52.25 in^2. Rear Chamber: Volume 2cf net. How will this design sound with the woofers I have?
Band pass systems sound better in a hatchback or suv/van, they have more low tone and less shake. Band pass boxes never seemed louder to me in SPL in any car Iv tried, and they don't project well outside the vehicle in comparison to sealed or small ported boxes. Your right that the old school boxes were not loud like the now big ports, but they seem like another animal all together tuning the car like a external port system. With sealed in the old school boxes under the power they used to If your projecting properly outside the vehicle, your going to want a sealed big port design. led or ported box. When you use a sealed box or smaller ported box the internal body of the car or truck becomes the band pass side of the box. Band pass boxes are terrible for trunks giving more air flow shake for rattlers. What I'm realizing fully after almost 30 years is it's all about the box and the reason my set up when I was in high school was so hot beating everyone's set up in my age group across the state of MD. with just over 1000w rms, it was not about the amp but my custom built box. As soon as I put the old set up in a pre fab box was junk in the next car. Ant I had ppl coming to bass off with me over and over with 2000w rms multiple boxes and not even close. Everyone told me my box was too big lol but then they got smashed. If your looking for amazing you need a custom built box that fits your speakers and amp all else fails.
For sure man. It's a whole lot more complicated than most people understand. Especially the in-car response, or the in-room response if you're in the home. I totally agree about box size. I think we see so many undersized boxes because there's limited space in a car and because people seem obsessed with power numbers. As the box gets bigger power handling goes down, but the speaker gets more efficient so you don't need as much power. Why waste all that money on doubling your power (and upgrading your alternator) when you could just make the box a little bigger?
So with this video I've come to learn that the Zenith 4th order BP "subwoofer" is really more of a one-note wonder than anything else. Large vented chamber, tiny sealed chamber, long vent tube that likes to fart and a 6-½" Quadral woofer that fires into the sealed chamber. Very low end HTiB "Sub". You can see a few videos of it on my channel if you scroll.
I understand the formula for Fc but how does this effect multiple drivers in a single undivided seal section say 4 drivers in 4cuft would you use the vb/4 or vb=4 in the formula. In my case this can make a difference between 60.7hz and 48.7
@@DIYAudioGuy I have winnisd. It doesn't have this information. When when working on a a 4th order. I can change the size if the sealed section I can change the ported section but if I don't adjust the tuning if either it doesn't change. If it work as if you are thinking no matter how many drivers were in the sealed section an I increase the vb or decrease it should change and it does not. I even went. As far as deleting the driver and reentering the information. Winnisd is great for vented enclosure , it ok at 4th orders and its not worth using on 6th orders. I just asked a question to get clarification. On a subject you spoke about. I know and understand my thought process on the subject. I was just trying to make sure not To have the wrong grasp on the subject. I guess I will just research it myself. Thanks
amazing video, I have always love bass, i't has been always my hobbie, about the video, What are the characteristics that a subwoofer must have to be a good option for a bandpass box?
@@DIYAudioGuy I saw a sonotube version. It has 20.9 cu ft of internal volume accoring to OP. Edit: said sonotube is configured as a traditional ported enclosure I believe.
Doesn't the bandpass box get louder at max watts/power and have half the size box than the ported box? I'm pretty sure them Dayton response plots are of sensitivity not max db output right? I would bet the loud or all the ported boxs would reach their mechanical limits far sooner than the bandpass box would. But the bandpass would reach it's electrical limits sooner than the ported. Seeing how most subs only do 1 or 2 octaves and we all like smaller lighter boxes, I don't know why we don't see far more bandpass subs. Also bandpass boxes have less or far less overtones and or unwanted higher frequency noise or distortion than sealed or ported boxes because they drop very sharply at there high bandpass frequency. I also feel like the bandpass plot must have been tuned to 40hz to 50hz? If so what's the plot look like tuned to a more reasonable 30hz to 35hz? I'm not saying the Dayton sub is best suited for a bandpass but I feel like there's more variables you didn't address. I like a sub to hit 30hz to 120hz or 20hz to 80hz for bigger applications.
Thanks for the comment. That's a lot of ground to address in the UA-cam comment area. But a few quick things. In general a bandpass enclosure is going to be larger because you're dealing with two chambers. As far as the plots go, you're making the argument that the bandpass enclosure can handle more power and will thus be louder. True. If I were going to compete in an SPL competition I would use a band pass enclosure. The main point of the video was that you can't just throw any subwoofer into a 3-1 band pass enclosure and expect to get a good result. For the typical person It's much easier to get great sound with a vented enclosure.
@@DIYAudioGuy well every bandpass box I've ever seen is smaller than the proper sized ported and probably over twice as loud. Which would mean you'd need 2 ported boxes to do the output. As far as I understand speaker boxes are a trade off of bandwidth, loudness, and size. You want it to be small you lose either bandwidth(bandpass) or loudness(sealed). You want bandwidth you lose loudness(sealed) or need a larger box. You want bandwidth and loudness you'll need a big box. So properly designed bandpass boxes trade bandwidth for higher loudness and box size. But most store bought subs are tuned too high around 45hz. That hardly what I call a sub. Missing the lower octave. I think being a musician that a sub needs to hit 30hz for the low B on the bass guitar so all boxes should be tuned to at least 35hz. But that would cost them loudness or size. And it's hard to sell a bigger or quieter product. But hey why not trade bandwidth? And that's where we run into the bandpass box. But they cost more to design and and make as well. I guess you get what you pay for, ha.
Hi. I'll like it if you could help me with a ported enclosure for 2 ROCKFORD FOSGATE PUNCH P2D4-12 4-OHM DUAL VOICE COIL 12" SUBWOOFER BASS SPEAKER. I have a Toyota Sienna 2004. The trunk space is w42- D23- H14 or more if needed.
I built a box a couple years ago for my alpine r series. Sounds great at 30hz but 40hz seems to take off and ring right through me... Does that mean my box is tuned to around 40-50hz? And how if possible can I lower the tuning by 10hz or so? I'm half debating starting a new box from scratch with the type of design in this video.
@@DIYAudioGuy I don't think I have the time cability to go through that process to be honest. The subwoofer has a data sheet which includes F3, QTC, ripple and FB which I'm trying to gain more knowledge on as I'm told these are the numbers I need to focus on? The box im looking at making next is W22" H17" D12.59" with a port area of 19"² (1.22"x15.50" X 28" long) ¾" thick mdf Im smart with tech but numbers just kill me off.. trying to calculate port area I don't have a clue either... My current box I made the port 6" longer last year and it helped with the 25-35hz but that 40-50hz buzz stayed 👎.
You might be hearing a port resonance, or possibly even panel resonance. Did you put a brace in the enclosure? Whatever it is, it's not right. Subwoofers are not supposed to make a ringing sound. Heck it might not be the enclosure at all, it could be the car. Try moving the box around a bit and see if they're ringing sound goes away.
You've uploaded this video with a -17db audio track and I have to raise my volume a crapton to hear anything. Please consider that more for future vids, I wouldn't upload anything quieter than -6db
@DIY Audio Guy New Subscriber. I'd love to get some plans for 4th-6th order. 20-35 hz ? Morel Ultimo Titanium SC 12/2 Need to fit trunk 2014 chevy cruze. What ya think? Seem like u are very knowledgeable fellow. Thanks & God Bless ya brother.
Bassheads Bible Right Here!! Basically simply purchase 2 Deaf Bonce 15's and build the biggest box you can fit in your truck,buy the biggest Orion amplifier you can find and spend the rest on a battery bank and wires and turn it up/ WARNING WINDSHIELDS WILL SHATTER😏🍻
They turn the driver around because of cooling! If the driver is facing the other way the heat can only escape through the cone of the driver. The pressurized air moving in and out of the box helps dissipate heat from the driver. They do the exact same thing in ported and sealed boxes but its much less common.
For sure! You get better cooling with a magnet is exposed. No impact on sound, especially in a bandpass box where you're only hearing the port resonating.
@@DIYAudioGuy Looking it up they actually do it so they could smell the voice coil as well but I’d never heard it that way. I have a 90/dbw 4th order right now that i designed with old school math and the drivers are inverted with the phase flipped. I messed up my calcs though so my F-upper is lower than it should have been 😭
@@DIYAudioGuy It’s still a success in my book, 30 - ~70hz with a 2db ripple all at 90dbw is pretty damn good. They don’t make good drivers for 4th orders very often anymore
Did you do vids on sealed enclosures? We just did a sealed at 1.5ft per sub. Vega series 12s. High frequency response isn't great but around 28hrz is insane. 4 12s at 2250w rms. 2ohm mono.
@@DIYAudioGuy yes i know, but 5cubic feet tune to 38 when the peak will be around 45hz ported, how will be with a 6th order bandpass, will the bandpass be more loud or windier?
Great video! The bottom line is, ( I don't care if your goal is SPL or sound quality ) every single install is unique. Therefore there are no magic tricks. You have to decide what your goal really is, and design and build the install based on all of your unique variables. Every single install is a series of compromises bar none.
Waking up late on the first Saturday morning I've had off in a good long while, I find this video, buried deep within the typical tripe of UA-cam's "recommended" wall. Liked, subbed, and I'll be spending the rest of my morning pouring through your channel! Awesome stuff! So refreshing to see some real technical talk actually based in reality. :D
Once or twice a year I find a channel that gives me the old youtube excitement I used to get finding all the awesome content when I was new to the platform. It's rare anymore but still very exciting to find an awesome channel. I'm so happy to find your channel. You've got great content and seemingly a ton of knowledge. Thank you for your videos and channel.
Hey a bandpass series, awesome! I remember when I first started seeing the JL boxes at shops back in the day. Those were good sounding boxes! I picked up a box at a bazaar and put my Soundstream USA’s in it. That’s when I realized there’s more to it than meets the eye lol. Awesome video!
My first bandpass box was a 2x12 with plexiglass front from best buy. Put 2x12" soney xplode subs and a 900 watt xplode mono block sub amp. It hit so hard that I couldn't hear my other speakers. So I added component speakers front and rear from crutchfield powered by a clarion 4 channel amp. By the time I was done, my truck was a small extended cab Toyota pickup, I couldn't see out of any of my mirrors. Lol sounded great though. Went to the drive-in and everyone hated me lol
This is one of the best explanation on UA-cam IMO. Not only on this topic but generally on acoustic laws and rules in box building and designs. So right to the point with such a control to stay on the topic yet not to miss any critical point in explaining the reasons why. Great video. Its funny how some people talk about bandpass designs as a new fashion thing around the block. It is actually because of those cheap and many bad sounding bandpass boxes with plexiglass panels and bunch of blinking led lights. They are very attractive when you listen to them with your eyes and with LED technology these days those enclosures are coming back to the spotlight again. Bose made them popular with their Acoustimass series in late 80's and early 90's (dual reflex boxes) and they were a big commercial hit at the time. With those cubes the whole system sounded much more powerful then they looked. They had a jaw dropping effect on home listeners and since then satellite/subwoofer systems became very popular. They got a very high approval from female members of the household and we all know they have a great influence on the choices when bringing something in the house. I know all that as those Acoustimass were my first home system with the sub. And everyone who came to my home were very impressed. Until I bought a 15" Velodyne Digital series sub. Then I realised how Acoustimass box sharply drops in low frequency. So loudness cannot fix the lack of bandwidth when you can compare the systems side by side. If you dont hear certain frequencies you will never know they are there (in the source) until you hear them on the system they can reproduce them. And on that topic how some designers put the sub inverted so they can smell the burning coil on the driver during the SPL competition. I must admit Bose found a very elegant solution to protect those 2 small 5-1/4" drivers in their Acoustimass boxes. They put in line a light bulb with a specific resistance with each driver so when the driver receive more than rated power it would start glowing at that point turning that extra power into the light (glowing filament in incandescent bulb). And if you keep pushing you will burn the bulb instead of the driver. Very clever but scary when you dont know this and you see the glowing light coming out of the port when you overload the box. Thanks again for this great video. Instant subscriber.
For more info on how to use WINISD check out this video right here:. ua-cam.com/video/yZNeYBYGRKk/v-deo.html
Do u have any videos on a 6th order
@@iantankersley9617 not yet, a lot of people are asking about it so I need to do some research so I can make a good video.
Any chance u wanna build boxes to sell
@@DaReallestDerrty eventually, yes. The big obstacle is shipping.
Can we make a 6th order passive radiator enclosure ? 8th ?
The dog ear analogy is perfect because woofers. 🐶
🤣
jajaj
Duhhh
As a woofer, i disagree sir! We find your regular speaking voices too loud as it is - we do not want to be associated with extremely loud bass! We'd rather sniff your bottom :3 we know what you had for breakfast the past week...
@DJ WRAITH It's just a matter of building the right box for the right woofer, or putting the right woofer in the right box.
The best sounding band-pass I heard used a dayton dcs255 classic 10" really similar to a jbl gto 10". They are xmax limited so they struggle below 35 hz but they have some of the lowest group delay you can find in a band-pass without giving up efficiency. I ended up using it in a 6th order in my daily driver and sacrificing a tiny amount of sound quality for the ability to play some decaf when I feel like it.
Another cool thing is they still play high enough that if you are on a tight budget you don't have to upgrade your mids and highs, the classic 10" can play mid-bass even in a band-pass.
That' awesome!
So your playing mid and highs on a subwoofer ?
That makes no sense AT ALL.
@@casemodder89 some mids yes. Its enough that you shouldn't have to upgrade the 6x9s if you don't want to
First video here, I thought I heard “ THIS, is a big ass subwoofer”
All right all right my kinda channel. Subscribed.
I love the fact at 9 minutes and 25 seconds you mentioned the smell of coils. When you're smelling your coils that means that the show is about over. Time to choose push it and have to recone your s*** or turn it down and take your score.
Yep, one or the other.
Finally a channel with facts instead of 'buy my product' . Thank you from a new subscriber.
Thanks for the sub!
Thank you very much for this info. I built a few small band pass enclosures for my truck using help from your video and made alterations to practice these changes in tuning. I am now comfortable with this type of enclosure and building a steel framed 1.5 to 1 ratio enclosure for six 15’s to go in the bed of my truck. Thank you for helping me with this project!
Glad it helped
I noticed you didnt talk about 6th orders in this video. I would very much appreciate if you made one.
There seems to be a lot of interest in them!
I have a 6th order wall in my crv but plan on redoing it. So some extra info would be amazing.
Adding more shit doesn't make it better a well designed system doesn't need all that crap NO resistors that's just a copout that you couldn't take the time to design test and tweak your crossover use an L pad if necessary but just keep your Db's very close & you probably won't need them LESS IS More
I think Bose owns the patent for 6th order bp boxes, that is why many companies call them something else. I don't know if the patent has expired, but Bose used to be aggressive about stopping non-licensed use of this enclosure type.
Hey that's me at 2:28! That's some old pictures and videos from an event in 2018. Car is completely different now! It was a flat ported wall then and is well on its way to becoming a 4th order.
Yeah I popped into the show just to see what was going on When I saw you roll the car off the trailer I knew that I was looking at the loudest car at the show! I grabbed some footage of your run. If you would like the entire clip shoot me an email and I'll send it to you! DIYaudioguy@gmail.com
I remade my own bandpass subwoofer out of a jamo bandpass sub, I GOT A NEW SUB DRIVER, NEW PORT, Tuned crossover for the lows. I will upload a video of it. Plus you got a new subscriber here. 😀😆😃
Thank you for explaining it so well. I've built various enclosures and I always look at the woofer's characteristics to see what type of box is best for that specific woofer. If possible, I prefer to start with measuring the speaker's Theile Small parameters and not using the manufacturer's specs, especially when designing complex bandpass boxes. It's fun to experiment though.
Oh yeah, it's a blast to try out new things.
Great video. Now where’s the van?
I do have an old beater van, maybe its time to build one?
Wow thats the most informative video ive seen in a LONG time. Subscribed. Would love to see videos like this on series and parallel tuned 6th orders, horns and 1/4 wave T-lines. Thanks for sharing!
As soon as I get them figured out I'll make a video on it! It might be a while that's some complicated stuff.
Same
@@DIYAudioGuy thank you
Good explanation. It still gets deeper which has caused many a grief over the years plus contributed to the bad rap of bandpass. Active filtering and vehicle acoustics should be accounted for in design to extract the most performance while keeping the design practical as well. Many exclude those two things in the design process, but it is very detrimental to the result.
Oh yea, the room (or car) size matters.
9:17 I thought it should be pointed out that when the woofer is "Inverted" the voice coil also tends to cool better, especially over longer periods of play, because fresh outside air can enter the open chamber and is exchanged with heated air whereas if the voice coil vent (typically through the rear of the magnet structure) is installed into the sealed chamber the inner air continues to heat and becomes a less efficient cooling system.
Absolutely!
I have always wondered if inverting my subs made a difference been doing it for years...sound like they hit harder and last longer
You the real mvp! So glad there's someone explaining the science in a way we all get! Feeling alot more confident about starting an SQ build now. Was always dubious since most info tailors to SPL.
Hey thanks! Any style of box can be a sound quality box, sound quality gets more complicated as the box gets more complicated. Another thing to keep in mind, I did not talk about it in the video, is group delay. Basically there's going to be a lag between when the signal gets to your subwoofer and when the port produces music. Most of the time this is just the tiniest fraction of a second. But if the group delay gets too big you're going to get a muddy sound. I need to do some research on that and make a video because I'm not quite sure where that threshold is.
@@DIYAudioGuy If you want to hit a wider range of frequency would a bandpass be the best idea then? My goal was to have the sub be able to hit all the low end rather than peaking like my old ported enclosure. Dang even spreading knowledge in the comments good on you! Sounds like a fascinating video can't wait for that!
@@mattsteel7220 My preference is to go with a ported enclosure and tune it low. You'll give up SPL but you'll get more low frequency extension. That's just kind of the trade off.
@@DIYAudioGuy thats a reasonable sacrifice in my eyes, thanks for the tip!
I had a bandpass with the led lights. For $100 it was pretty decent pass.
I'm glad you're happy with it.
Thank you. Ports are a coupler. If you stick paper in a port the paper doesn't blow out. It gets stuck and moves back and forth. Because its a cone. Ported enclosures experience higher internal pressures than sealed enclosures
Exactly!
Just got yesterday Jamo SW 505E. Seems a pretty solid unit and this video was very informal to understand it. Thank you :)
👍
That was a good job. You should explain to everybody what the comb is. And how to tune it properly. You got the numbers
Thanks! I may just have to put that idea on my list.
I tuned a 8th order to the opposite of what you showed at the end of the video at 20 hz, and it actually made a very good theatre box it shakes the paintings on my wall with a single shitty 8
That is awesome!
My boy literally says there's no secret ratio, then proceeds to tell us the formula to get our secret ratios.
I was hoping nobody would catch that. 😆
@DJ WRAITH Yes exactly.
Fr then says the box of choice sucks all around
@DJ WRAITH just get one comp sub and you'll be happy. its simple and cheap. Box specs are never perfect, most important thing you have to do is tune by ear.
My first system was like 400 bucks installed, it lasted me like 8-9 years and it slammed until i fried the amp then the sub. Gonna rebuild the sub at some point hopefully.
@DJ WRAITH Go infinite baffle in the trunk with Acoustic Elegance Lambda drivers.
I’ve done 4:1 ratio bandpassed with huge range . Ratio can be less important with a well designed bandpass . I had the gain of the extra ported volume but kept the range . I could play 18-55 hz . I see some myths being re enforced in this video that aren’t true as well . There is a lot of physical changes that can be made in the design to combat that “peakyness “ that a lot of people think higher ratio enclosures can give you .
That's pretty impressive! They are tricky to design.
4th orders arent too bad , I prefer 6th orders for range and aggressiveness tho I like windy !
Back in 1987 a friend and me built a box out of 3/4" plywood that barely fit in the trunk of my 78 Buick regal from side to side, we put four 12" woofers side by side and we had no port holes it was air tight and I drove it with a Kenwood 920 amp and it thumped like crazy.
So a down firing sealed box is kinda a big bandpass with large port side, like if its under the back seat of an ext cab truck
In a lot of ways yes, but if you think it about it from that standpoint the port tuning is completely random and the ported section is very small.
I'm glad you made the qualifiers that you did.
Back in the 80's I tried every possible box design
in numerous variations.
They all stink.
Give me 4 Lab-12s in a 4 cu.ft. SEALED BOX.
It can't be touched for fidelity,
and has equal Output with a Ported Box.
(but needs twice the power).
Right! You can get output from any enclosure you just need to keep cranking up the power!
What I discovered that I was missing was Transient Response.
At least Pyle got their name right. 😄😆😅
😄
We have a legendary local shop called Toby Speakers. He only builds bandpass enclosures for vehicles using Dayton subwoofers. I have a dual 10” and a 3-12” enclosures made by him. The dual 10 is one of his production boxes called the Hitman. My 3-12s enclosure is a one off he did for me. And let me tell you, they get down
That's awesome! It is smart to go with a builder that has experience making these work, they are tricky. Is he using the Ultimax drivers? The Datyon HO did not model well in a 4th order.
I remember a friend that had a bandpass enclosure with 2 12's and a cheater Autotek 80 watt amp . I never heard 2 12's that loud . This was about 1990
Those cheater amps were cool.
I still have the pioneer ts - wx206, 8inch bandpass box,it's a true bomb
cool!
Great video! I love bandpass! Back in 2004 I had a 01 ford Taurus with two 12 inch pioneer impp TSW305Dvc subs in a 1:1 bandpass I built myself. Front&back chambers was 0.9cuft and I use pvc pipe for the port which was 3" x 5" each if I remember right. It's was Amazing! Had that longthrow bass and I used an audio control epicenter too. Sounded Beautiful inside and outside. People would ask me, "how you get your bass to be so deep and low"? Bass is just air and you want to move alot of it. Your sub is an acoustic air pump!
So Now I have a jeep grand cherokee with a kicker zx2500.1 and a Soundqubed 15" HDX3 in a ported enclosure. It's beats stupid hard but bandpass have this certain sound that I'm addicted too.
I been trying to order another one and build a 4th order wall but their sold out so I'm going to wall it with two Dayton Audio ultimax 18s. I have a 4th program on my PC that I already punch the numbers in and the results are impressive, better than any sub I seen probably because their fs is 19hz. Their louder and more efficient on lows. I can't wait to buy them!
I am a huge fan of the ultimax, and those pioneers from back in the day were awesome!
@@DIYAudioGuy yes man especially the SPL subs they once made. It's like they said forget car audio subwoofers! They were made in Mexico at first. Mexico was making them right because I could give them 2x or 3x the power and they would last but then they move everything to China and it all went down hill from there IMO. The spider would rip and cone would rip. They had the best infinite baffle subs period! Man I miss those days
I just got the TX-WX1210AH and it hits hard. Sure you can buy separate components that will beat this but for convenience to take out in 5 seconds and put back in and have some serious hard hitting bass ........well there really is nothing so convenient.
That's awesome!
Love the simplocity and informal info
Simplicity
Simple is good.
Just subbed. you explain things in a dumbed down enough even way i could understand it lol. Superb knowledge though, i will keep learning!
Awesome thanks!
Back in the day, I had a bandpass with 2 10's in it that were low power and I was really surprised at how loud and well it sounded. I've been debating on building one lately for one of the cheaper 300w 10's from china and an equivalent small cheap amp
Back in the day bandpass and isobaric were popular because subs were not as strong as they are today. So people had to be creative.
@@DIYAudioGuy ok. Yeah, we are talking the year 2000, or early 2001. I had the chance to remember and the subs were two 10" kenwood tornado, single voice coil. I think they were rated around 300w peak. The cones faced each other behind plexiglass and the rear was separated and ported. I can't remember the brand of amp, but I think it was 500 watts. That was my first setup. For what it was, I was impressed. After watching a video, I'm realizing that I might have had better performance if I wired them out of phase and makede it isobaric
Thanks for sharing the truth I bought my LSDCB about 25yrs ago its the best source
It is hard to read, but handy when you need to look something up.
Is this going in the bass van?
😄
Diy guy.
Me with the Harley trike with sub in trunk.
Wondering if this selfpowered sub. The 8” active and 8” passive made by Exoxgear. Comes with 500 watt amp.
I have cut a 7-1/4” hole in lid.
Perhaps a passive radiator could go here.
I could also put a port in the rear wall.
So wonder - if the radiator was used exclusively. Would it transfer the sound inside the trike trunk. The trunk measures 2’-6” wide X 12” tall by 10” deep.
This is just a temp solution.
Could either go 2 ways
1) put 8” subwoofer in lid, and put port into rear wall.
2) keep lid solid, put sub into rear wall and fire into area below seating area.
Getting good bass on a motorcycle is tricky.
Efficient to some means highest achievable SPL. efficient to me, means sound output balanced to cover the band of frequencies desired with the least variation. I want the subwoofer to "sit" in the frequency range such that, in concurrence with the other drivers used, the "gap" that i want to fill is evenly filled, it does not run over the midrange or the subsonic transducers. If the subsonic transducers do achieve coverage up to 30Hz, then i want to begin hearing the subwoofer take over at above 30Hz and carry on until it meets up with the midrange driver that most likely will start to dominate above 80Hz. But it depends on the setup. Not the same rules apply for a portable bluetooth as a concert or an audiphile living room or recording studio or car. These crossover frequencies vary greatly depending on overall size, number of "ways" or number of bands covered by transducers. There can be as many as 4 frequency bands covered by the various drivers from subsonic, to sub bass, to midrange and trebble for starters. Varying the bandwidth by compressing it with larger baffle of the exterior chamber doesnt change the efficiency technically. It will over the entire frequency span pretty much generate the same amount of vibration. Its just a matter if it's TUNED to resinate the right set ot frequencies in the right balance. And too sharp or too flat of spectra can both be easy to encounter with just slight variations.
Right, there's a whole lot to it.
Question…. If you have a woofer that works in a sealed or vented enclosure… can you design the sealed side of the band pass box based on the sealed specs for the woofer and the vented side based on the vented specs? As a starting point/ ballpark?
That is a fine starting place.
Nice information sir ..from indonesia🙏
I had a cheap 4th order bandpass box right after high school loaded with 10s. It kept blowing speakers because I couldn't hear the distortion.
That is a common problem with bandpass.
the way i see is that the sealed portion of the enclosure also needs to bigger to the point it's almost as equal to the other portion of the enclosure. that way bass should be even better.
For sound quality yes.
Extremely interesting video thx so much for the simple explanation and especially the Formula :D
Glad it was helpful!
When making large ported enclosures
Which one is better design for deep bass ? T line or L ported ?
Also what thickness of mdr should i use ?
Depends on the box and application.
actually it IS all about ratios but nothing so simple as a single ratio. Loudspeaker enclosures can be modeled as a multi element filter and for a smooth freq response the charts shown in the LDC book are the various tunings for freq & phase response vs efficiency.
I had a cheap sub with ratio aprox 3.1.............. witch sound awesome
THANK YOU people need to know this info!
Thanks for watching!
I do db contests with an old bandpass woofer
Loaded with 2x 12inch.
And its an old magnat 2120 with thick 20mm plexi
Was thinking about replacing it with multiplex
Maxed out on 142db with the original 175w rms woofers and i blew the power caps in my headunit xD
No doubt these band pass boxes can get loud!
@@DIYAudioGuy they sure can.
But like you said.
When you get the porting wrong they sound awfull.
My mate had a cheap bp and it sounded like he mounted the woofer into a plastic oil drum.
Mid 90s Used to have pyle 2 12” bandpass , only putting low powered Pyramid amp and its still pounds lol
💪
Very interesting and informative content! I just purchased a Dayton Audio 12” HO DVC sub. I’m trying to understand box designs. What box design would you suggest for the best SQ? I have a space 15”W x 32”L x 15”H. My 15”W is fixed but the other dimensions are flexible. This will be placed between my seats in my second row?
Thank You in advance for your insight!
Your best bet is to download WINisd and model it. If you don't want to deal with WINisd I offer box design services. Another option is to reach out to parts express' tech support. They are very helpful.
Holly crap finally I get it.
Awesome!
For cheap installs for friends, with maximum perceived 'loudness' along with a nice sound, i'll use a ported and a sealed box with woofers of the same size, sometimes even a 10" sealed and a 12" ported.. Works quite well! ;) I have one of those exact shitty sub enclosures that's scrap, too..might as well burn it? I could have blown its original 10" "woofers" with a head unit lol speaking of frequency response, if you want some great reference speakers that can go down low and way up high (very high bandwidth) look for some KEF Coda III speakers, also Mission 731/750SE Gold and Gale G20 Gold.. I tend to prefer my Rotel or Yamaha amps to drive them all, though i have a few good JVCs and a Kenwood amp too.. And no EQs! And an EVGA Nu Audio Pro 7.1 sound card!
And strangely enough: the KEF speakers i mentioned are sealed, the Gale speakers are ported and i'm using them together as wide stereo monitors.. And an amp per pair now!
I will have to look into those.
Man... I don't miss the days of subs getting stolen out of my Tahoe on a regular basis. I never had decals and they were always covered, but they'd get stolen anyway. I eventually got cheap ones that I could take inside at night until I decided to leave them at home one day. Dang pest control guy stole them from the INSIDE of my apartment.
That is some bad luck!
So my takeaway is 4th order bandpass not worth the trouble. lol do you have a video on 6th or 8th orders?
Those are even more. Not worth the trouble.
Just to be perfectly clear, if you just want to get loud, a bandpass enclosure might be worth the trouble.
@@DIYAudioGuy lol damn thanks 🙌🏼
I need to ask you about my bandpass design I bought I have 2 deaf bonce 3512r bandpass is Front Chamber volume:3.1 cf net. Tuning: 48Hz. Port Area: 52.25 in^2.
Rear Chamber: Volume 2cf net. How will this design sound with the woofers I have?
I can model that in WINisd. My prices are listed here: diysubwoofer.blogspot.com/2021/05/custom-subwoofer-enclosure-designs.html
Are you able to design a 6th order blow through for 2 18s or 21s
For something like that I would recommend that you talk to baseaholic productions.
Band pass systems sound better in a hatchback or suv/van, they have more low tone and less shake. Band pass boxes never seemed louder to me in SPL in any car Iv tried, and they don't project well outside the vehicle in comparison to sealed or small ported boxes. Your right that the old school boxes were not loud like the now big ports, but they seem like another animal all together tuning the car like a external port system. With sealed in the old school boxes under the power they used to If your projecting properly outside the vehicle, your going to want a sealed big port design. led or ported box. When you use a sealed box or smaller ported box the internal body of the car or truck becomes the band pass side of the box. Band pass boxes are terrible for trunks giving more air flow shake for rattlers. What I'm realizing fully after almost 30 years is it's all about the box and the reason my set up when I was in high school was so hot beating everyone's set up in my age group across the state of MD. with just over 1000w rms, it was not about the amp but my custom built box. As soon as I put the old set up in a pre fab box was junk in the next car. Ant I had ppl coming to bass off with me over and over with 2000w rms multiple boxes and not even close. Everyone told me my box was too big lol but then they got smashed. If your looking for amazing you need a custom built box that fits your speakers and amp all else fails.
For sure man. It's a whole lot more complicated than most people understand. Especially the in-car response, or the in-room response if you're in the home.
I totally agree about box size. I think we see so many undersized boxes because there's limited space in a car and because people seem obsessed with power numbers. As the box gets bigger power handling goes down, but the speaker gets more efficient so you don't need as much power. Why waste all that money on doubling your power (and upgrading your alternator) when you could just make the box a little bigger?
So with this video I've come to learn that the Zenith 4th order BP "subwoofer" is really more of a one-note wonder than anything else. Large vented chamber, tiny sealed chamber, long vent tube that likes to fart and a 6-½" Quadral woofer that fires into the sealed chamber. Very low end HTiB "Sub". You can see a few videos of it on my channel if you scroll.
Cool.
Do you design enclosures for others.
I have 2 8" JBL GTO 804 subwoofers and would be interested in a 6th order bandpass.
diysubwoofer.blogspot.com/2021/05/custom-subwoofer-enclosure-designs.html
That was good.
Thank you.
Hey thanks I appreciate that!
I understand the formula for Fc but how does this effect multiple drivers in a single undivided seal section say 4 drivers in 4cuft would you use the vb/4 or vb=4 in the formula. In my case this can make a difference between 60.7hz and 48.7
WinISD is your friend here. Download it see what it tells you!
@@DIYAudioGuy I have winnisd. It doesn't have this information. When when working on a a 4th order. I can change the size if the sealed section I can change the ported section but if I don't adjust the tuning if either it doesn't change. If it work as if you are thinking no matter how many drivers were in the sealed section an I increase the vb or decrease it should change and it does not. I even went. As far as deleting the driver and reentering the information. Winnisd is great for vented enclosure , it ok at 4th orders and its not worth using on 6th orders. I just asked a question to get clarification. On a subject you spoke about. I know and understand my thought process on the subject. I was just trying to make sure not To have the wrong grasp on the subject. I guess I will just research it myself. Thanks
amazing video, I have always love bass, i't has been always my hobbie, about the video, What are the characteristics that a subwoofer must have to be a good option for a bandpass box?
I am honestly not sure.
How do you feel using an isobaric back to back setup with this? 1 sealed chamber 2 ported.
Sounds complicated, but that does not mean it won't work.
Do you build subwoofer boxes or where are you fan out cut sheets
To hard to ship them.
Very expensive it's going to have to be shipped Freight because of the box size over a 150 lb
Hey can you do a video on win isd. Where to download and how to use please
You're not the first person that's made that request, I might put that one on my to do list.
"utter garbage". You Sir are correct.
Yep. Bandpass is "cool" but for most builds the juice is not worth the squeeze.
It is the qts getting right in the closed part and not the 3 op 1 ratio. Not all speakers are good for bandpass. special when you will go very low.
Right.
@@DIYAudioGuy WSP26S visaton is quite good.
Wonder if the HT-18 V3 would work on this enclosure.
It would be huge.
@@DIYAudioGuy I saw a sonotube version. It has 20.9 cu ft of internal volume accoring to OP.
Edit: said sonotube is configured as a traditional ported enclosure I believe.
I was wondering if you can help I have 12 speakers subs I'm trying to fit in the van I just need a good enclosure
I am not currently taking on enclosure design clients.
What enclosure do i need for 2 12'' Zv-6?
lddy.no/1gish
Doesn't the bandpass box get louder at max watts/power and have half the size box than the ported box? I'm pretty sure them Dayton response plots are of sensitivity not max db output right? I would bet the loud or all the ported boxs would reach their mechanical limits far sooner than the bandpass box would. But the bandpass would reach it's electrical limits sooner than the ported. Seeing how most subs only do 1 or 2 octaves and we all like smaller lighter boxes, I don't know why we don't see far more bandpass subs. Also bandpass boxes have less or far less overtones and or unwanted higher frequency noise or distortion than sealed or ported boxes because they drop very sharply at there high bandpass frequency. I also feel like the bandpass plot must have been tuned to 40hz to 50hz? If so what's the plot look like tuned to a more reasonable 30hz to 35hz? I'm not saying the Dayton sub is best suited for a bandpass but I feel like there's more variables you didn't address. I like a sub to hit 30hz to 120hz or 20hz to 80hz for bigger applications.
Thanks for the comment. That's a lot of ground to address in the UA-cam comment area. But a few quick things. In general a bandpass enclosure is going to be larger because you're dealing with two chambers.
As far as the plots go, you're making the argument that the bandpass enclosure can handle more power and will thus be louder. True. If I were going to compete in an SPL competition I would use a band pass enclosure.
The main point of the video was that you can't just throw any subwoofer into a 3-1 band pass enclosure and expect to get a good result. For the typical person It's much easier to get great sound with a vented enclosure.
@@DIYAudioGuy well every bandpass box I've ever seen is smaller than the proper sized ported and probably over twice as loud. Which would mean you'd need 2 ported boxes to do the output. As far as I understand speaker boxes are a trade off of bandwidth, loudness, and size. You want it to be small you lose either bandwidth(bandpass) or loudness(sealed). You want bandwidth you lose loudness(sealed) or need a larger box. You want bandwidth and loudness you'll need a big box. So properly designed bandpass boxes trade bandwidth for higher loudness and box size. But most store bought subs are tuned too high around 45hz. That hardly what I call a sub. Missing the lower octave. I think being a musician that a sub needs to hit 30hz for the low B on the bass guitar so all boxes should be tuned to at least 35hz. But that would cost them loudness or size. And it's hard to sell a bigger or quieter product. But hey why not trade bandwidth? And that's where we run into the bandpass box. But they cost more to design and and make as well. I guess you get what you pay for, ha.
Dear Sir
3in 1 means?
2.7 vas ( 2.7÷3)=0.9
0.9×2=1.8
That means 1.8 cubic Port side
0.9cubic seald side
Please give a reply!
The VAS is not used to calculate the enclosure size. It is a way of quantifying the stiffness of the woofer's suspension.
@@DIYAudioGuy thanks
Hi. I'll like it if you could help me with a ported enclosure for 2 ROCKFORD FOSGATE PUNCH P2D4-12 4-OHM DUAL VOICE COIL 12" SUBWOOFER BASS SPEAKER.
I have a Toyota Sienna 2004.
The trunk space is w42- D23- H14 or more if needed.
What do you think about jbl csxp 1400 ?
I have no experience with it.
THE BOOK IS A MUST READ .If you want learn box design and speakers 7:19
Inverted speaker in the bandpass. Guilty is charged 😂
Do you have any knowledge of tapped horns TH
I do not.
How can you by looking at driver's TSP determine whether it's well-suited for a bandpass enclosure or not?
Honestly the best bet is to just put them into something like WINisd and model it.
Check out maybe 6th order ?
I would like to build one just for kicks and giggles.
I built a box a couple years ago for my alpine r series. Sounds great at 30hz but 40hz seems to take off and ring right through me... Does that mean my box is tuned to around 40-50hz? And how if possible can I lower the tuning by 10hz or so?
I'm half debating starting a new box from scratch with the type of design in this video.
Hard to tell over the internet -- maybe get a DATS?
@@DIYAudioGuy I don't even know what that is 😭😭😆 I've had to tune 40 and 50hz out almost completely on the head unit is all I know 🤦🏻♂️😆
ua-cam.com/video/6g39ScWma3U/v-deo.html
@@DIYAudioGuy I don't think I have the time cability to go through that process to be honest. The subwoofer has a data sheet which includes F3, QTC, ripple and FB which I'm trying to gain more knowledge on as I'm told these are the numbers I need to focus on?
The box im looking at making next is
W22" H17" D12.59" with a port area of 19"² (1.22"x15.50" X 28" long) ¾" thick mdf
Im smart with tech but numbers just kill me off.. trying to calculate port area I don't have a clue either...
My current box I made the port 6" longer last year and it helped with the 25-35hz but that 40-50hz buzz stayed 👎.
You might be hearing a port resonance, or possibly even panel resonance. Did you put a brace in the enclosure? Whatever it is, it's not right. Subwoofers are not supposed to make a ringing sound. Heck it might not be the enclosure at all, it could be the car. Try moving the box around a bit and see if they're ringing sound goes away.
You've uploaded this video with a -17db audio track and I have to raise my volume a crapton to hear anything. Please consider that more for future vids, I wouldn't upload anything quieter than -6db
You should check out the more recent videos, my audio has improved significantly.
@@DIYAudioGuy I've seen. TY.
@DIY Audio Guy New Subscriber. I'd love to get some plans for 4th-6th order. 20-35 hz ? Morel Ultimo Titanium SC 12/2 Need to fit trunk 2014 chevy cruze. What ya think? Seem like u are very knowledgeable fellow. Thanks & God Bless ya brother.
diyaudioguy@gmail.com
Bassheads Bible Right Here!! Basically simply purchase 2 Deaf Bonce 15's and build the biggest box you can fit in your truck,buy the biggest Orion amplifier you can find and spend the rest on a battery bank and wires and turn it up/ WARNING WINDSHIELDS WILL SHATTER😏🍻
That will do it!
They turn the driver around because of cooling! If the driver is facing the other way the heat can only escape through the cone of the driver. The pressurized air moving in and out of the box helps dissipate heat from the driver. They do the exact same thing in ported and sealed boxes but its much less common.
For sure! You get better cooling with a magnet is exposed. No impact on sound, especially in a bandpass box where you're only hearing the port resonating.
@@DIYAudioGuy Looking it up they actually do it so they could smell the voice coil as well but I’d never heard it that way. I have a 90/dbw 4th order right now that i designed with old school math and the drivers are inverted with the phase flipped. I messed up my calcs though so my F-upper is lower than it should have been 😭
@@peeweebus6829 bandpass is a pain in the rear. Very hard to get it right.
@@DIYAudioGuy It’s still a success in my book, 30 - ~70hz with a 2db ripple all at 90dbw is pretty damn good. They don’t make good drivers for 4th orders very often anymore
If the Subwoofer is about the size of your trunk then it will go really low possible 20HZ
👍
You need to stop moving the 3d pic around so it can be looked at
I will keep that in mind for the next one.
Did you do vids on sealed enclosures? We just did a sealed at 1.5ft per sub. Vega series 12s. High frequency response isn't great but around 28hrz is insane. 4 12s at 2250w rms. 2ohm mono.
That sounds nice! Best part about sealed is the small box size.
What abot 6th order bandpass?!
Even more complicated.
@@DIYAudioGuy yes i know, but 5cubic feet tune to 38 when the peak will be around 45hz ported, how will be with a 6th order bandpass, will the bandpass be more loud or windier?
Great video! The bottom line is, ( I don't care if your goal is SPL or sound quality ) every single install is unique. Therefore there are no magic tricks. You have to decide what your goal really is, and design and build the install based on all of your unique variables. Every single install is a series of compromises bar none.
Exactly
Waking up late on the first Saturday morning I've had off in a good long while, I find this video, buried deep within the typical tripe of UA-cam's "recommended" wall. Liked, subbed, and I'll be spending the rest of my morning pouring through your channel! Awesome stuff! So refreshing to see some real technical talk actually based in reality. :D
Welcome to the adventure!
I think this is recorded with a band pass
Wow by far you are the only one that gets in deep covers it all and keeps giving info. Please don't stop making videos.
Thanks!
Once or twice a year I find a channel that gives me the old youtube excitement I used to get finding all the awesome content when I was new to the platform. It's rare anymore but still very exciting to find an awesome channel. I'm so happy to find your channel. You've got great content and seemingly a ton of knowledge. Thank you for your videos and channel.
You are to kind!
Great content and myth busting! "Myth Bustin' with Justin" maybe a new segment idea!
I like that!
Dear youtube algorithm Why did you took so long to recommend this channel ?
Hey a bandpass series, awesome! I remember when I first started seeing the JL boxes at shops back in the day. Those were good sounding boxes! I picked up a box at a bazaar and put my Soundstream USA’s in it. That’s when I realized there’s more to it than meets the eye lol. Awesome video!
JL Audio knows what they're doing. That's why they can command such a high price.
Jacob from Audio Customs design me a 4th order for 2 8w7 and it plays 20hrz to 100hrz port Thru the ski hole of my lexus is250..
Nice!
My first bandpass box was a 2x12 with plexiglass front from best buy. Put 2x12" soney xplode subs and a 900 watt xplode mono block sub amp. It hit so hard that I couldn't hear my other speakers. So I added component speakers front and rear from crutchfield powered by a clarion 4 channel amp. By the time I was done, my truck was a small extended cab Toyota pickup, I couldn't see out of any of my mirrors. Lol sounded great though. Went to the drive-in and everyone hated me lol
Just did this to see if my comment had to go through a leftist.
This is one of the best explanation on UA-cam IMO. Not only on this topic but generally on acoustic laws and rules in box building and designs. So right to the point with such a control to stay on the topic yet not to miss any critical point in explaining the reasons why. Great video.
Its funny how some people talk about bandpass designs as a new fashion thing around the block. It is actually because of those cheap and many bad sounding bandpass boxes with plexiglass panels and bunch of blinking led lights. They are very attractive when you listen to them with your eyes and with LED technology these days those enclosures are coming back to the spotlight again. Bose made them popular with their Acoustimass series in late 80's and early 90's (dual reflex boxes) and they were a big commercial hit at the time. With those cubes the whole system sounded much more powerful then they looked. They had a jaw dropping effect on home listeners and since then satellite/subwoofer systems became very popular. They got a very high approval from female members of the household and we all know they have a great influence on the choices when bringing something in the house. I know all that as those Acoustimass were my first home system with the sub. And everyone who came to my home were very impressed. Until I bought a 15" Velodyne Digital series sub. Then I realised how Acoustimass box sharply drops in low frequency. So loudness cannot fix the lack of bandwidth when you can compare the systems side by side. If you dont hear certain frequencies you will never know they are there (in the source) until you hear them on the system they can reproduce them.
And on that topic how some designers put the sub inverted so they can smell the burning coil on the driver during the SPL competition. I must admit Bose found a very elegant solution to protect those 2 small 5-1/4" drivers in their Acoustimass boxes. They put in line a light bulb with a specific resistance with each driver so when the driver receive more than rated power it would start glowing at that point turning that extra power into the light (glowing filament in incandescent bulb). And if you keep pushing you will burn the bulb instead of the driver. Very clever but scary when you dont know this and you see the glowing light coming out of the port when you overload the box.
Thanks again for this great video. Instant subscriber.
Thanks for commenting!