Bruce Shelley who did some key AH development work at this time (started Jan 82) before going onto computer games is arguably one of the best boardgame developers ever. Read up on his designers notes if you get a chance. also Francis Tresham (Civilization and later 1830) is another key figure and in many ways is the father of the mechanics associated with the heavy Euro today. Another excellent episode in the series (Will there be a playlist soon collecting these?) that show just how varied AH was (doing wargames, sports games, abstracts, party games, and heavy strategy games). They did it all.
I'll see if I can track down those notes. I don't think Tresham ever worked directly with AH though? My research has only taken me to 1985 though. And I'll set up a playlist for these as well, so things are easier to find. Thanks for the input!
nice look back at a different era :) Gladiator was one of my most favorites from that time, we played the heck out of it... I still have Freedom In The Galaxy as well... it was Star Wars with the serial number filed off...
I have enjoyed this series quite a bit, this one hits home for me most. My high school days were often spent playing Guns of August solitaire on a ping pong table in the basement. I still pull this one out (or the Compass reprint, Empires and Alliances) for comfort. thanks for the research!
When I was a kid in the 70s, my friend's father had a tall bookshelf full of "bookshelf" games. We played a few. Most were way too advanced for me at the time. But some, were pretty fun. Now it's decades later and I'm slowly building a bookcase full of those games for myself. I call it, "the games that will never be played." They might though. Currently, I'm looking at 10 AH games and 10 3m games. Some d and d boxes. Battle system... A few fillers. I remember some of the better games. My friends dad had game nights. I was included. But as much as I stared at that shelf while we were friends. I couldn't remember it all. These videos have been fantastic. Well done. Informative. I'm able to make a list of the ones that interest me. Thanks. Not all heroes wear capes.
Iconoclasm & Heresy -- the card you never wanted to see in Civilization... It was a one card turn-around for your country and the best card for your opponents!
By 1980, SPI had left AH in the dust, from a design perspective, and from a volume of sales perspective, too. Monarch Publishing imbued AH with a degree of conservatism that insured AH could never keep up with SPI.
Except that SPI would be no more a mere 2 years afterwards, AH would create VG with the key design staff from there, and AH would last almost another 20 years in business.... So maybe the conservative nature of the company wasn't such a bad thing...
@@LegendaryTactics It has little to do with any success for AH, as they were owned by Monarch Publishing. S&T had no parent company backing their moves.
Just discovering this series. Very well researched, though not flawless. If you ever decide to revise this episode, I can supply you with details on Slang and Avalon Hill Trivia, as I own both games.
Sure, I am planning to string these all together when they're done, and correct any mistakes that I made at the time. There is literally no information about those games online, and almost nothing in The General magazine. Not even a box cover
Odd this is seen as the high-point of Avalon Hill today, the old grognards saw the writing on the wall. Quarter "video arcades", every home had at least one if not 2 game consoles and now personal computers were moving into homes with games of all types.
I'm not sure exactly what the sales figures were like, but it certainly was a high point in creativity, with lots of amazing, classic games released. Truth be told, this is actually the first part of a longer episode that will end in 1985, after which the sad downfall begins. I had to split it into so it wouldn't be excessively long.
I thought Frederick the Great was outstanding as a simulation of combat of the mid 18th century. And I loved Panzerarmee Afrika. Yes, I was a lifetime SPI subscriber.
I have a copy of Civilization, with the westrn exspantion map thar adds the Iberian penisula to the game. It turns it into an eight player game and I have played games that lasted 12 hours.
In regards to Fredericksburg... I do not think it was actually produced. I *THINK* it was to use the same system/scale as their "Bullrun" game; I do *not think* it was the old SPI game from the Blue & Gray series. One would think if Avalon Hill was picking up the old Blue & Gray series, they would as a series not just one title. I am sure I have never seen the cover let alone a physical copy of "Fredericksburg" by Avalon Hill.
I totally agree with everything you have said. The only thing is that it does turn up in the official company history that was published in 1980 or so, so if it stalled in development, it must have been quite far along. But there is no mention of it anywhere else that I could find, so I felt I had to include it just in case. I am, if nothing else, a completist.
@@LegendaryTactics Great video! Honestly, I don't remember hearing of Fredericksburg prior. I am just a big/old fan and now own over 600 old wargames with 400+ Avalon Hill & SPI games from this era. Just my over-valued 2 cents. ;)
Bruce Shelley who did some key AH development work at this time (started Jan 82) before going onto computer games is arguably one of the best boardgame developers ever. Read up on his designers notes if you get a chance.
also Francis Tresham (Civilization and later 1830) is another key figure and in many ways is the father of the mechanics associated with the heavy Euro today.
Another excellent episode in the series (Will there be a playlist soon collecting these?) that show just how varied AH was (doing wargames, sports games, abstracts, party games, and heavy strategy games). They did it all.
I'll see if I can track down those notes. I don't think Tresham ever worked directly with AH though? My research has only taken me to 1985 though. And I'll set up a playlist for these as well, so things are easier to find. Thanks for the input!
nice look back at a different era :) Gladiator was one of my most favorites from that time, we played the heck out of it... I still have Freedom In The Galaxy as well... it was Star Wars with the serial number filed off...
Yes, I have a hard copy of Freedom in the Galaxy, but I never tried Gladiator
Thank you for this series, played a lot of these in the late 70s early 80s -- might even have some in my basement.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching! Time to check that basement to see what treasures you find!
I have enjoyed this series quite a bit, this one hits home for me most. My high school days were often spent playing Guns of August solitaire on a ping pong table in the basement. I still pull this one out (or the Compass reprint, Empires and Alliances) for comfort. thanks for the research!
No problem! Thank you for watching, and for your patience between episodes. It takes a while to research this stuff properly
When I was a kid in the 70s, my friend's father had a tall bookshelf full of "bookshelf" games.
We played a few. Most were way too advanced for me at the time. But some, were pretty fun.
Now it's decades later and I'm slowly building a bookcase full of those games for myself. I call it, "the games that will never be played." They might though.
Currently, I'm looking at 10 AH games and 10 3m games. Some d and d boxes. Battle system... A few fillers.
I remember some of the better games. My friends dad had game nights. I was included. But as much as I stared at that shelf while we were friends. I couldn't remember it all.
These videos have been fantastic. Well done. Informative. I'm able to make a list of the ones that interest me. Thanks. Not all heroes wear capes.
I enjoyed this walk down memory lane very much. I hope you'll do the same for Victory Games. SPI and TSR as well.
That is the plan, although information on SPI seems to be quite hard to come by!
Played the football AND golf games with my brother, a lot. heh And Civilization with my friends. Wicked.
That's great! I'm sure you have some great memories!
Fantastic content in this series, thank you:)
Thank you so much! And thanks for watching!
Iconoclasm & Heresy -- the card you never wanted to see in Civilization... It was a one card turn-around for your country and the best card for your opponents!
Yes, I've heard of that card, even though I have yet to play the game!
By 1980, SPI had left AH in the dust, from a design perspective, and from a volume of sales perspective, too. Monarch Publishing imbued AH with a degree of conservatism that insured AH could never keep up with SPI.
Except that SPI would be no more a mere 2 years afterwards, AH would create VG with the key design staff from there, and AH would last almost another 20 years in business.... So maybe the conservative nature of the company wasn't such a bad thing...
@@LegendaryTactics It has little to do with any success for AH, as they were owned by Monarch Publishing. S&T had no parent company backing their moves.
Advanced Civilization as well as the expanded Mega Civ are still played multiple times at Gen Con every year.
Yes, some of those old games still have some life in them yet! Diplomacy was also played there in a big tournament
@@LegendaryTactics I saw the giant floor version in the Stadium. Cool!
Ah, Freedom in the Galaxy - including the naughty in-joke character, Thysa Kymbo!
Haha, I'd never noticed that. It's been quite a few years since I have pulled it off the shelf, and I guess I was just too young and innocent
Just discovering this series. Very well researched, though not flawless.
If you ever decide to revise this episode, I can supply you with details on Slang and Avalon Hill Trivia, as I own both games.
Sure, I am planning to string these all together when they're done, and correct any mistakes that I made at the time. There is literally no information about those games online, and almost nothing in The General magazine. Not even a box cover
L T reminds me I was an Lt, in the Signal Corps of the United States Army.
Oh, great! Thank you for your service!
Odd this is seen as the high-point of Avalon Hill today, the old grognards saw the writing on the wall. Quarter "video arcades", every home had at least one if not 2 game consoles and now personal computers were moving into homes with games of all types.
I'm not sure exactly what the sales figures were like, but it certainly was a high point in creativity, with lots of amazing, classic games released. Truth be told, this is actually the first part of a longer episode that will end in 1985, after which the sad downfall begins. I had to split it into so it wouldn't be excessively long.
I thought Frederick the Great was outstanding as a simulation of combat of the mid 18th century. And I loved Panzerarmee Afrika. Yes, I was a lifetime SPI subscriber.
That's great! There were definitely some amazing SPI games!
epic
Thank you!
I have a copy of Civilization, with the westrn exspantion map thar adds the Iberian penisula to the game. It turns it into an eight player game and I have played games that lasted 12 hours.
That's great! If you're absorbed in the game for that length of time, it must be a classic!
@@LegendaryTactics One of the best games I've ever played. The problem is getting that many people who are willing to invest that much time.
In regards to Fredericksburg... I do not think it was actually produced. I *THINK* it was to use the same system/scale as their "Bullrun" game; I do *not think* it was the old SPI game from the Blue & Gray series. One would think if Avalon Hill was picking up the old Blue & Gray series, they would as a series not just one title. I am sure I have never seen the cover let alone a physical copy of "Fredericksburg" by Avalon Hill.
I totally agree with everything you have said. The only thing is that it does turn up in the official company history that was published in 1980 or so, so if it stalled in development, it must have been quite far along. But there is no mention of it anywhere else that I could find, so I felt I had to include it just in case. I am, if nothing else, a completist.
@@LegendaryTactics Great video! Honestly, I don't remember hearing of Fredericksburg prior. I am just a big/old fan and now own over 600 old wargames with 400+ Avalon Hill & SPI games from this era. Just my over-valued 2 cents. ;)
Amoeba wars looks awfully similar to first edition twilight imperium. Just saying.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was an influence on TI!