I was sure that a video about the "most forbidden dissonance" was going to be a discussion about the minor 9th interval. But the major(add4) dissonance is fascinating, and perhaps even more difficult to use.
Try this: play 2nd inversion F Maj7 in the bass and a second inversion G Maj triad in the treble: spelled from the root, C E F A D G B. All seven tones of C major. 😊
A good example of using maj(add4) chords in choral music is Eric Whitacre’s “Sleep” (and in his other works as well, but I really like this piece). Eric Whitacre seems to like those “cluster chords” with a lot of minor/major seconds, which has a really full and lush sound. (EDIT: I just scrolled through the comments and found someone mentioned this piece as well, sorry I didn't saw it when I was posting this comment) There are a couple of scenarios where I have found the maj(add4) quite satisfying, for example, in the progression Cm(add4) - C(add4) - Fm(add2)/C C,Eb,F,G - C,E,F,G - C,F,G,Ab The added 4th adds a lot of tension (compared with the same progression without the 4th: Cm - C - Fm), which sounds pretty nice when sung by a choir (especially with crescendo throughout the progression - you can try that in MuseScore). By the way, if the C-E-F-G voicing sounds too harsh (especially when the E-F-G is clustered in the same register), try move the third up an octave so it becomes C-F-G-E. It has a warmer and “sus4-like” sound, which may be easier to deal with.
1345 is more like a color to me. It is suitable for showing brokenness, pain, indecisiveness. Keith Jarrett's solo concerts often have those touching moments. I would miss them.
I am a poor amateur musician and would never challenge a pro. But to my humble and untrained ears, this dissonance sounds okay. It doesn't bother me much, although I have noticed that it can sound unpleasant. In some examples from the video, it simply sounded okay to me.
i've always just thought of it as an "Ionian" voicing. the definitive note of Ionian is the [4], so if someone doesn't want the "Ionian" sound of the [4/11], they could use a Lydian voicing [#4/#11]. it's perfect to use when you want that "clashing" of the 4 over the 3. however, its probably not what you'd want to hear at the cadence, where one would opt for a more "pentatonic voicing" of the 6, 9, or both. (ie; CMaj6, CMaj9, CMaj6/9, or add6, add9, etc.)
Cool lesson, true story. One famous example where it does work is in Hey Jude. When they sing “take a sad song and make it better”. Song is a high F note on top of a C7. I play the C7 and will still have the open e string rubbing against the vocal, but it sounds good and is an iconic song.
I had to go back and check this, and you are correct. It looks like it's there for just a brief moment with an 8th note, which is in my opinion, the best way to use it. Hey Jude is obviously a great song.
@@BAndrewBurns It is actually quite sustained out. "Take a sad SONG, AND" the capitalized are on the F. i think there the added Bb in the C7 chord being a fifth from the F gives it a little more context to the F, also the F sort of harmonically anticipates the subsequent F major chord.
Thank you for making this video, and for your clear explanation. You mention that this chord is very rarely used. This is certainly the case for the most traditional usage of harmony, but I must say that I hear the ‘add4’ chord quite a lot in all kinds of contemporary music. A good example would be ‘Sleep’ by Eric Whitacre, a very popular composition for choir: ua-cam.com/video/aynHSTsYcUo/v-deo.html (Music + score: ua-cam.com/video/zLSRVE3t17E/v-deo.html ) Also, many songs by Chris Martin (Coldplay) feature some form of an add4 chord, for example’ Clocks’ (it’s present from 3:15 and onward): ua-cam.com/video/d020hcWA_Wg/v-deo.html In this case, the add4 is used on the first degree, but often in pop music, it’s used on the fifth degree. Here is an example of composer Benjamin Britten using the add4 chord in a piano piece: ua-cam.com/video/Uv9q9JyZBpc/v-deo.html And lastly, various ways of voicing the add4 chord, as well as examples of add4 chords in songs by Jacob Collier: ua-cam.com/video/Uv9q9JyZBpc/v-deo.html Hopefully, this shows that ‘dissonance’ and ‘forbidden’ is all about context, and that there is often more possible than one would think at first. I personally would hate to see the add4 gone from all cinematic / pop / jazz / classical music. Just my two cents, I hope it’s of use to somebody!
Good points. It's funny you mention E.W., because that was one example I was thinking of. I do like much of his music, so that's why I don't want to call attention to him specifically.
I've been hearing this chord recently in some very well-known pop songs. It's always a V chord and probably the result of a tonic pedal. In this case the dissonance adds momentum to the cadence. I recall encountering this years ago when I played an original song with a singer-songwriter. The chord was notated as a simple major triad in her sheet music but she was using a non-standard guitar tuning and an open string was ringing out with the fourth. Because the third was voiced higher it sounded good to me but it seemed like a maj7sus2 in second inversion. It was of course a V chord and the open string was ringing with the tonic. The add4 chord can work well as the upper structure for other chords: Cadd4/D = Dm11 Cadd4/G = G13sus4
This channel is great at explaining musical concepts. Can you please do an explanation of what 4ths, 5ths, etc. mean in chords? I only know it has to do with what finger would play that key or something, but I've never had it actually explained, and it seems arbitrary. I think you could be a big help!
Most standard Western music is based on a scale (or mode) consisting of seven different notes (out of a possible 12 notes, each a half-step apart). The final eighth note being the harmonic equivalent of the first note. There are many different types of modes, (major, minor, mixolydian, dorian, etc) based on the interval (distance) between each note (a whole step or half-step). If you are familiar with Do-Re-Mi-Fa-Sol-La-Ti-Do, then you have just sung a ‘major’ scale. The major scale is characterised by a whole step (tone) between each note, except for the distance between the third and fourth (mí-fa) and between the seventh and eighth (tí-do) notes - which both have a half-step (semitone) interval between them. (This is why playing the third and fourth note (mi + fa) together in a major scale sounds so dissonant. The notes are too close together.) A chord is (usually) made using three (or four) notes played together that are sufficiently far apart from each other (one and a half, or two steps) to sound harmonious. Usually, that means a tonic note (1 - dó) and the 3rd (mí) and 5th (sol) note above it. In a major chord (based on a major scale), mí is two tones above dó, and sol is 1.5 tones above mí. The two most common modes in standard Western music (not including folk music) for the last few centuries have been the ‘major’ (Ionian) and ‘minor’ (Aeolian) modes. The most characteristic (but not the only) difference between them is the 3rd note in the scale. In a minor scale, the 3rd note (mí) is a half-step (semitone) lower than in the major scale - so that there is only a semitone interval between the 2nd and 3rd notes (ré-mí). Therefore, in a ‘minor’ chord, the interval between the 1st (dó) and 3rd (mí) notes is only one and a half steps (tones) instead of two whole tones in a major chord. This is why you’ll often hear musicians refer to two notes being played together with a distance (interval) of one and a half steps (tones) as a ‘minor third’, and two notes played together with a distance of two whole steps (tones) apart as a ‘major third’.
I’m not sure how to square this away with my personal experience. To me, it sounds like a Sus2 chord with an added Major 7, it’s just inverted. Looked at this way, it sounds breathtakingly beautiful. Suspended and floating, but full of color and pain. So even in your examples of why it sounds bad, I was loving it. You could for sure put it in a context that makes it sound like a clash that is a mistake, but I don’t find it particularly hard to use at all, at least to my own aesthetic sensibilities.
Nice example @6:00 - 6:30. For me it works because of the 2 seventh intervals (G-F) and (C-B), which creates a motif that helps to justify the (G-F).Also, when the F and E are not attacked simultaneously that alleviates a lot of the dissonance (which is also in the previous - very basic - example.
What about the super forbidden chord. C Fb E G chord, or the C major add b4. In true intonation with the Fb 23.46 cents lower than the E. I find the most forbidden dissonances today are ones that are bitonal in nature. Like the augmented third found in the "hendrix chord" C E G Bb D#. The Bb to D#, an augmented third is 23.46 cents wide of a perfect fourth, yet in the context of the "hendrix chord" it works along side proper voice leading. i think it is because the D# and the Bb are each heard in relationship to the base note C and the fact that they are unstable against each other aids in the tension and release in the subsequent voice leading. But with the C major add b4 chord resolving to an Fm7 in second inversion chord. I think even this harsh dissonance between the Fb and E, and between the Fb and C, and the Fb and G, would all work out nicely. The C would hold steady, the Fb would resolve down to Eb, the E would resolve up in contrary motion to the F natural, and the G would move up a diatonic semitone to the Ab. The enharmonic Fb against the E would create a very interesting and harmonic form of beating that in the wrong context would just sound like someone is singing the E too flat, but in the right context and if performed accurately, could make for a really satisfying musical gesture. In terms of Cadd4, singers can sing this much more easily if they develop a sense of melodic intonation and have a very clear idea exactly how large or small the step or leap is supposed to be in their line. most singers are trained on 12 tet and usually with a piano that is not always in tune, so they have no real sense of the exact size of intervals in their ears and brains, it is all really quite nebulous for most of them because the music education in the world is so poor. if singing a G that needs to step down into the 4 of the Cadd4, knowing how large a 9/8 whole tone is, and being trained in the familiar sound of it melodically and harmonically, as well as the 256/243, being familiar with that ratio with the E under them, helps people REALLY know exactly what to listen for and how to tune melodically and harmonically at once. People today are mostly trained that beating in an interval means bad, no beating in an interval means good, this is very wrong instruction. It certainly is a tense chord the Cadd4 but by no means a bad sounding one, but it is helpful to note that the F is subversive. It is the only undertonal note in C major scale, the F. It is subversive, and transient and is part of what strongly establishes C as the tonic being very unstable harmonically speaking, when looking at a chain of fifths. Undertonal generally is correlated with minor and destabilizing and overtonal major and stable, harmonically speaking of course. Being aware of what the chord is and what it conveys can help make clear where it is appropriate. I am using this chord in a different inversion and key than you show here, it is an Fb major add4 chord in second inversion. It is tense, and I almost changed it yesterday, it is an anticipation note, the added 4th . but it works lyrically with what is being said at that moment.
@@BAndrewBurns I'm just using modes as and example some modes are harder to build progressions then others . Especially when you are trying not to use diatonic harmony. Ty again for your quick response
Locrian is probably the hardest mode for most people to write a melody in because of the tritone. The tritone doesn't really provide a stable key center, so that is why it's usually used briefly as a transition within a work.
I've discovered that for Locrian. One way that works is leaning full into it. Every mode has a sort of "trademark" chord progression or vamp. In Locrian. Moving between the I and bIV can provide reliable results. Perhaps just don't use a standard diminished chord for the I. You got other notes. You'll probably have to rely on an inversion of another chord as your I.
Try this: play a second inversion F Maj7 in the bass and a second inversion G Maj triad in the treble: spelled from the root, C E F A D G B. All seven tones of C major are in this chord and sound cool. 😊 People used to jazz harmonies don't perceive an intense dissonance.
*cue evil laughter* Yes, tell everyone to stop using the major add 4th, that just leaves more for ME! Muahahaha! /sarc Tbh, you hinted at it yourself. Context is key. The chord works extremely well in some contexts, but for new composers it can be one of the easiest chords to misuse. It's one of my favorites though, and I've written some works for beginners that use it with some effectiveness.
I was sure that a video about the "most forbidden dissonance" was going to be a discussion about the minor 9th interval. But the major(add4) dissonance is fascinating, and perhaps even more difficult to use.
Try this: play 2nd inversion F Maj7 in the bass and a second inversion G Maj triad in the treble: spelled from the root, C E F A D G B.
All seven tones of C major. 😊
A good example of using maj(add4) chords in choral music is Eric Whitacre’s “Sleep” (and in his other works as well, but I really like this piece). Eric Whitacre seems to like those “cluster chords” with a lot of minor/major seconds, which has a really full and lush sound.
(EDIT: I just scrolled through the comments and found someone mentioned this piece as well, sorry I didn't saw it when I was posting this comment)
There are a couple of scenarios where I have found the maj(add4) quite satisfying, for example, in the progression
Cm(add4) - C(add4) - Fm(add2)/C
C,Eb,F,G - C,E,F,G - C,F,G,Ab
The added 4th adds a lot of tension (compared with the same progression without the 4th: Cm - C - Fm), which sounds pretty nice when sung by a choir (especially with crescendo throughout the progression - you can try that in MuseScore).
By the way, if the C-E-F-G voicing sounds too harsh (especially when the E-F-G is clustered in the same register), try move the third up an octave so it becomes C-F-G-E. It has a warmer and “sus4-like” sound, which may be easier to deal with.
It's simple. if you want to create a feeling of "unsure," or "mistake" use this chord. it's beautiful.
1345 is more like a color to me. It is suitable for showing brokenness, pain, indecisiveness. Keith Jarrett's solo concerts often have those touching moments. I would miss them.
I am a poor amateur musician and would never challenge a pro. But to my humble and untrained ears, this dissonance sounds okay. It doesn't bother me much, although I have noticed that it can sound unpleasant. In some examples from the video, it simply sounded okay to me.
i've always just thought of it as an "Ionian" voicing. the definitive note of Ionian is the [4], so if someone doesn't want the "Ionian" sound of the [4/11], they could use a Lydian voicing [#4/#11].
it's perfect to use when you want that "clashing" of the 4 over the 3. however, its probably not what you'd want to hear at the cadence, where one would opt for a more "pentatonic voicing" of the 6, 9, or both. (ie; CMaj6, CMaj9, CMaj6/9, or add6, add9, etc.)
That D add4 chord around 01:48 was the best one: it sticks out yes but that's because it's spicy. I thought it sounded great.
Cool lesson, true story. One famous example where it does work is in Hey Jude. When they sing “take a sad song and make it better”. Song is a high F note on top of a C7. I play the C7 and will still have the open e string rubbing against the vocal, but it sounds good and is an iconic song.
I had to go back and check this, and you are correct. It looks like it's there for just a brief moment with an 8th note, which is in my opinion, the best way to use it. Hey Jude is obviously a great song.
@@BAndrewBurns It is actually quite sustained out. "Take a sad SONG, AND" the capitalized are on the F. i think there the added Bb in the C7 chord being a fifth from the F gives it a little more context to the F, also the F sort of harmonically anticipates the subsequent F major chord.
This is a cool video, thank you. If you make more videos explaining obscure musical concepts I’d watch them.
Thanks for the kind words, Sean. I am planning more videos that will cover a variety of musical concepts.
Nice one. Good man!
Compose without the E in CEG chord.
Make sure C and G connect in the progression.
The third note determines the feeling.
Use a scale as foundation.
This might be a different chord, but if not then C418 uses this beautifully in the song Work Life Imbalance at 1:24
The inversion with the fourth on the bottom is also used at the most memorable moment of Mendelssohn's Midsummer Night's Dream wedding march.
Thank you for making this video, and for your clear explanation. You mention that this chord is very rarely used. This is certainly the case for the most traditional usage of harmony, but I must say that I hear the ‘add4’ chord quite a lot in all kinds of contemporary music.
A good example would be ‘Sleep’ by Eric Whitacre, a very popular composition for choir:
ua-cam.com/video/aynHSTsYcUo/v-deo.html
(Music + score: ua-cam.com/video/zLSRVE3t17E/v-deo.html )
Also, many songs by Chris Martin (Coldplay) feature some form of an add4 chord, for example’ Clocks’ (it’s present from 3:15 and onward):
ua-cam.com/video/d020hcWA_Wg/v-deo.html
In this case, the add4 is used on the first degree, but often in pop music, it’s used on the fifth degree.
Here is an example of composer Benjamin Britten using the add4 chord in a piano piece:
ua-cam.com/video/Uv9q9JyZBpc/v-deo.html
And lastly, various ways of voicing the add4 chord, as well as examples of add4 chords in songs by Jacob Collier: ua-cam.com/video/Uv9q9JyZBpc/v-deo.html
Hopefully, this shows that ‘dissonance’ and ‘forbidden’ is all about context, and that there is often more possible than one would think at first. I personally would hate to see the add4 gone from all cinematic / pop / jazz / classical music. Just my two cents, I hope it’s of use to somebody!
Good points. It's funny you mention E.W., because that was one example I was thinking of. I do like much of his music, so that's why I don't want to call attention to him specifically.
I've been hearing this chord recently in some very well-known pop songs. It's always a V chord and probably the result of a tonic pedal. In this case the dissonance adds momentum to the cadence. I recall encountering this years ago when I played an original song with a singer-songwriter. The chord was notated as a simple major triad in her sheet music but she was using a non-standard guitar tuning and an open string was ringing out with the fourth. Because the third was voiced higher it sounded good to me but it seemed like a maj7sus2 in second inversion. It was of course a V chord and the open string was ringing with the tonic. The add4 chord can work well as the upper structure for other chords: Cadd4/D = Dm11
Cadd4/G = G13sus4
This channel is great at explaining musical concepts. Can you please do an explanation of what 4ths, 5ths, etc. mean in chords? I only know it has to do with what finger would play that key or something, but I've never had it actually explained, and it seems arbitrary. I think you could be a big help!
Thank you for the kind words. I will see if I can put something together on this topic soon. Thanks for the suggestion.
Most standard Western music is based on a scale (or mode) consisting of seven different notes (out of a possible 12 notes, each a half-step apart). The final eighth note being the harmonic equivalent of the first note. There are many different types of modes, (major, minor, mixolydian, dorian, etc) based on the interval (distance) between each note (a whole step or half-step). If you are familiar with Do-Re-Mi-Fa-Sol-La-Ti-Do, then you have just sung a ‘major’ scale.
The major scale is characterised by a whole step (tone) between each note, except for the distance between the third and fourth (mí-fa) and between the seventh and eighth (tí-do) notes - which both have a half-step (semitone) interval between them. (This is why playing the third and fourth note (mi + fa) together in a major scale sounds so dissonant. The notes are too close together.)
A chord is (usually) made using three (or four) notes played together that are sufficiently far apart from each other (one and a half, or two steps) to sound harmonious. Usually, that means a tonic note (1 - dó) and the 3rd (mí) and 5th (sol) note above it. In a major chord (based on a major scale), mí is two tones above dó, and sol is 1.5 tones above mí.
The two most common modes in standard Western music (not including folk music) for the last few centuries have been the ‘major’ (Ionian) and ‘minor’ (Aeolian) modes. The most characteristic (but not the only) difference between them is the 3rd note in the scale.
In a minor scale, the 3rd note (mí) is a half-step (semitone) lower than in the major scale - so that there is only a semitone interval between the 2nd and 3rd notes (ré-mí). Therefore, in a ‘minor’ chord, the interval between the 1st (dó) and 3rd (mí) notes is only one and a half steps (tones) instead of two whole tones in a major chord. This is why you’ll often hear musicians refer to two notes being played together with a distance (interval) of one and a half steps (tones) as a ‘minor third’, and two notes played together with a distance of two whole steps (tones) apart as a ‘major third’.
I’m not sure how to square this away with my personal experience. To me, it sounds like a Sus2 chord with an added Major 7, it’s just inverted. Looked at this way, it sounds breathtakingly beautiful. Suspended and floating, but full of color and pain. So even in your examples of why it sounds bad, I was loving it. You could for sure put it in a context that makes it sound like a clash that is a mistake, but I don’t find it particularly hard to use at all, at least to my own aesthetic sensibilities.
Nice example @6:00 - 6:30. For me it works because of the 2 seventh intervals (G-F) and (C-B), which creates a motif that helps to justify the (G-F).Also, when the F and E are not attacked simultaneously that alleviates a lot of the dissonance (which is also in the previous - very basic - example.
What about the super forbidden chord. C Fb E G chord, or the C major add b4. In true intonation with the Fb 23.46 cents lower than the E. I find the most forbidden dissonances today are ones that are bitonal in nature. Like the augmented third found in the "hendrix chord" C E G Bb D#. The Bb to D#, an augmented third is 23.46 cents wide of a perfect fourth, yet in the context of the "hendrix chord" it works along side proper voice leading. i think it is because the D# and the Bb are each heard in relationship to the base note C and the fact that they are unstable against each other aids in the tension and release in the subsequent voice leading.
But with the C major add b4 chord resolving to an Fm7 in second inversion chord. I think even this harsh dissonance between the Fb and E, and between the Fb and C, and the Fb and G, would all work out nicely. The C would hold steady, the Fb would resolve down to Eb, the E would resolve up in contrary motion to the F natural, and the G would move up a diatonic semitone to the Ab.
The enharmonic Fb against the E would create a very interesting and harmonic form of beating that in the wrong context would just sound like someone is singing the E too flat, but in the right context and if performed accurately, could make for a really satisfying musical gesture.
In terms of Cadd4, singers can sing this much more easily if they develop a sense of melodic intonation and have a very clear idea exactly how large or small the step or leap is supposed to be in their line. most singers are trained on 12 tet and usually with a piano that is not always in tune, so they have no real sense of the exact size of intervals in their ears and brains, it is all really quite nebulous for most of them because the music education in the world is so poor. if singing a G that needs to step down into the 4 of the Cadd4, knowing how large a 9/8 whole tone is, and being trained in the familiar sound of it melodically and harmonically, as well as the 256/243, being familiar with that ratio with the E under them, helps people REALLY know exactly what to listen for and how to tune melodically and harmonically at once. People today are mostly trained that beating in an interval means bad, no beating in an interval means good, this is very wrong instruction.
It certainly is a tense chord the Cadd4 but by no means a bad sounding one, but it is helpful to note that the F is subversive. It is the only undertonal note in C major scale, the F. It is subversive, and transient and is part of what strongly establishes C as the tonic being very unstable harmonically speaking, when looking at a chain of fifths. Undertonal generally is correlated with minor and destabilizing and overtonal major and stable, harmonically speaking of course.
Being aware of what the chord is and what it conveys can help make clear where it is appropriate. I am using this chord in a different inversion and key than you show here, it is an Fb major add4 chord in second inversion. It is tense, and I almost changed it yesterday, it is an anticipation note, the added 4th . but it works lyrically with what is being said at that moment.
I thought that surely you would mention that the 4th scale degree is the 7th of the dominant chord.
What sounds harmonious or dissonant is just something that is programmed into our heads by our culture.
Though not really, what did those consonances and dissonances originate from?
awesome
What about modes in music locrian would be very hard to build a melody around with out trying to resolve back to the tonic .
I'm not sure what you're asking. Can you explain?
@@BAndrewBurns
I'm just using modes as and example some modes are harder to build progressions then others . Especially when you are trying not to use diatonic harmony. Ty again for your quick response
Locrian is probably the hardest mode for most people to write a melody in because of the tritone. The tritone doesn't really provide a stable key center, so that is why it's usually used briefly as a transition within a work.
I've discovered that for Locrian. One way that works is leaning full into it. Every mode has a sort of "trademark" chord progression or vamp. In Locrian. Moving between the I and bIV can provide reliable results. Perhaps just don't use a standard diminished chord for the I. You got other notes. You'll probably have to rely on an inversion of another chord as your I.
Try this: play a second inversion F Maj7 in the bass and a second inversion G Maj triad in the treble: spelled from the root, C E F A D G B.
All seven tones of C major are in this chord and sound cool. 😊
People used to jazz harmonies don't perceive an intense dissonance.
*cue evil laughter* Yes, tell everyone to stop using the major add 4th, that just leaves more for ME! Muahahaha! /sarc
Tbh, you hinted at it yourself. Context is key. The chord works extremely well in some contexts, but for new composers it can be one of the easiest chords to misuse. It's one of my favorites though, and I've written some works for beginners that use it with some effectiveness.
5:10 I like your content and your reasoning, but tbh…the parallel octaves sound worse to my ear than the added 4th
^^^^^^
I could see that being used by a film composer as part of ones emotional musical palette,
but in a standard work, no!
Thanks,
Frederick Spector
When it doubt just put a D in the bass or remove the third.
Sus4 chords are not very controversial and are used often. But this isn’t exactly a usual sus chord either.
lol is this a joke add4 is beautiful, thought it was gonna be stacked minor 9ths or something
It isn't very dissonant though??