Is in the game really that much more visual clutter then in OW1 tho? Only thing I noticed is when ramatra uses his ult on night maps. I can't see shit through his aura as widow or ana. Other than that it's the same imo.
It is, considering just by your example, that's still only 5v5 your having issue with seeing which removes a player, specifically a tank, which of most characters in game tend to bring some of the highest clutter outright not including ults, now put yourself in the shoes of someone who is sensitive to bright lightning and other such thing lol I am not against it in the regard it'll make tank better but throw on top the que times mentioned, it'd be far less likely that it gets returned to that format cause idk bout you but I'm not sitting in a 15 minute que to play a match, just like the majority wouldn't and at current there aren't enough who play tank right now that would make that matchmaking better, basically blizzard dug a hole with tank and even swapping to 6v6 won't fix that glaring issue, people didn't want to play tank before, even less so now
@@ebhaenger8246now go imagine 2 ramattras and 2 maugas ulting at the same time, you wouldn't be able to see anything other than purple and orange splashes with machinegun.mp3
As a ball player, I can confirm, if my teammates cannot see me, they will flame me for doing nothing, even if i kill the entire enemy team every fight.
@@cagxplays9602I relate too much to this. On ball it doesn't matter if you are distracting both the enemies supports and one of their DPS a whole fight, if you lose the teamfight you are the one who gets blamed more often then not, like it is not our fault our team can't win a 4v2
That's cause there were 2 tanks, so if 1 went deep (either to distract them or just feed) it wasn't as big of an issue. Now if your tank does it and isn't able to create space or secure a valuable elim, the rest of the team gets fucked. 😅 I'm saying this as a flex player btw, seeing tanks not be able to make plays like they used to absolutely hurts like hell.
My idea for fixing 6v6 is to split the tanks into two categories similar to how DPS were split at the start of the game where you have main/shield tanks like Rein, and offensive tanks like JQ, and you can only choose one from each category. Ofc you can swap play styles to make Rein more aggressive but just so we don’t have double shield meta I believe it might work out.
How so? If anything, 6v6 allows more unique tank designs because you can give tanks a specific niche and their own set of weaknesses/strengths. 5v5 demands them to be more generalists (they *require more* in their kit, which is the opposite of freedom of design), which in turn would force them to have a similar gameplay loop.
2:19 my friends always tell me never to dive with them as support because i need to learn how to prioritize myself and i always tell them, "im your ride or die support" lmao its the most fun playstyle as support
7:10 I think that double tank is WAY blown out of proportion. 1. Its just one meta, 2. there are only two range shield tanks, sigma who doesnt have any health on that shi, and ram who doesnt even get to use it that often, I could see them balancing shields so that you half to perfectly cycle your shields to cover your team, just to half to spend 3-5 seconds behind cover no matter what.
@@cooltwittertag I really don’t. I think they wouldn’t allow for two shields to cycle perfectly no matter what. There will be a down time in which you NEED natural cover
yo flats could we get an revival event were we rewatch the last day of overwatch 1 tank duo with emongg, where you was like: "see you on the other side". that always bring me to tears....
the battle pass shit happened to me to 😭. We was getting hard held on the brazil map. Our tank left to buy battle pass and mauga duel. We still lost but the fact bro had to essentially pay to win to just cap point is crazy
I like having a role where if something is wrong - its usually my fault… my job was done or not… yeah nerf tanks and give half my survivability to another tank that I now have to rely on to do anything… oh boy… can’t wait… just because people don’t like counterpick meta when in reality all that means is people are rewarded for playing multiple heroes…
For 6v6 if the 6th spot it isn’t another tank but rather a new role for all the tanks without shields/shield-like abilities(queen,ball,hog,mauga,doom,maybe zarya due to how her bubbles work compared to actual shields/shield abilities) then I think it could work for 6v6 coming back without bringing back the double shield issues.
The guy in the double shield video "double shield wouldn't be a problem" 10 seconds later "we would have to nerf Ramm so double shield isn't a problem" The clown also for got that DVA matrix has been buffed to hell and back, so shield matrix would also be annoying af. I feel like these nerds have a thought and just hit record and post that $hit without watching and back and thinking for two seconds. "this will be good content, heu heu heu"
5:40 I don't really want to get into it, but I will say one thing that I like about 5v5 is that it's much easier for people without a ton of friends who play the game to get a full team. Generally, the more people you have in a group, the more control you feel like you have over the game (Whether it's true or not). Feeling like we did everything we could feels better than X Player not doing Y thing when we needed it, whether we win or lose.
2:12 This is my logic. We either all go in, or we are going to be staggering because yall were scared of dying. My thoughts to some teammates: "Why are you scared when they all are looking at me."
The most OP thing in OW history is probably no hero limit. When they said they would balance the game well enough for hero stacking not to be viable, I was already expecting a mess. And then youtubers started Mei stacking on 2cp defense, and comp payload defense became D.va diving the cart, and it gor removed in what, a month ? Fun times.
Yeah the biggest thing about 5v5 v 6v6 is queue times imo. I prefer the 5v5 format in general (as someone who’s played since late 2016). But even past person preference, I remember 6v6 queue times for damage was usually upwards of 15 minutes (on the low end) and could get to 30-45 for me
one of the main things really stopping you from having more tanks and tank players is 5v5 so the main argument against 6v6 being q times feels a bit redundant when it would also increase the player numbers of tanks. the thing to ask is would it add enough. but all that being said running a temporary event will not tell you if the tanks will stick around after the change
The reason I don't want 6v6 to come back isn't bc of double shield. Its bc of comps like Mauga + Queen + Brig + Moira + Reaper + Sojo/Bastion/someone else that would basically be unkillible snooze fests unlike anything we've ever seen before.
Zarya/Sig + Echo/Mei + Ana/Kiri could counter that though if they’re competent, that’s why 6v6 is the better option: the extra variables make even the best pirate ship able to be sunk. Limiting the variables limits the player agency thus 5v5 tank will always be kinda off putting
I honestly forget that Zen's discord STILL isn't 50%. Whenever I think of discord orb, I think of that clean 50% before anything else, even though it hasn't been like that for years.
Simple double shield fix is just put any tank with a shield in a seperate category as those without. Minus winton cause his shield is short. So you can pick rein zarya, but not rein sigma. You have to q for either shield tank, non shield tank, dps, or support.
What I love is that if OW2 keeps shitting on tank players the queue times will get worse because the tank players will quit. So, you know, they do have to throw the tank players a bone otherwise your queue time gains will be lost.
The tiktok saying how rein doesn't work well as a double shield hero, also shows him fighting against a rein sigma and shooting at barriers 90% of the time
With 6v6, if there's a problematic pairing amongst the tanks and they're too oppressive together simply impliment a lockout of one if the other is picked until you have the time to work on making them fair again. No need to leave it for 12 weeks because you were backed up. Just soft ban the duo, see if you can fix it, if you can't just let the community know that certain tanks will be unable to be played together for balancing and you'll upset a few tank mains who can't play their fave sometimes, but those people should know that they'd already be blocked out from their main 10% of the time now that there is two people in the role and it just goes up to 20%, not a huge deal if the alternative means back to 5v5
I think 6v6 could work better than 5v5 but, there would need to be some changes to Tank. I would envision Tank being split into shield and non shield tanks; no double shield ever again please god. So Rein, Ram, Sigma, Winston and Zarya would be in one role. Doom, DVA (I know the matrix kinda counts but dive without her and Winston isn’t the same), Ball, Orisa (who needs a severe nerf to her damage reduction, and a increase in spear damage to compensate), Mauga and Junker Queen. This would make Tank significantly more fun as each new Tank now has not only their own individual skill ceiling but also the new tanks of Ram, Doom, Orisa, Mauga and JQ have to learn to play and combo with another tank. This would also probably help combat a lack of skill ceiling that has ruined low play, with widow being the highest skill ceiling (debatable but I think I’m right) but other characters need changes to help build skill ceiling’s. Like Mercy, who already needs a major change to compete in a new environment. You would also need to do some slight tweaks to damage potential of tanks to reverse changes made in OW2. This would put you ahead of OW while also giving you the out of things having changed and Blizzard learning more about game balance. 5v5 is just permanently broken and it no longer feels like a team game anymore, with self reliance and winning 1v1s being highly important in lower ranks.
There's a few major issues though, if you were to split tank in to 2 roles, that would hurt matchmaking and queue times alot, especially because now not only do you need 2 of the least popular role, but one from both categories. Then, how do you classify which tank goes into which category? Ramattra has a shield but is way different from Sigma, then Sigma is considered an off tank while ball is a main tank. So if you go the shield route, you also have to balance one half of the tanks around their shield, even though how they are used is very different. Tank would just need to be 2 of any different tanks again like in OW1. This would work fine anyway since Orisa is reworked.
double shield was a single patch issue that went unchanged for 3 years. In the current state of the game with the orisa rework, mauga's ability to melt shields, and rammattra simply existing it is a non-issue
@@lordbored7006 But with two tanks with shields? And the bigger shields health pool? Plus, Mauga and all tanks will get a nerf to their damage and maybe health pool, also with discord orbs, Ana nade and higher dps damage chances are shooting at that shield would leave him dead pretty quickly given enough team play. I think that you wouldn’t queue for shield or non shield tank, but you could only choose one once your in. Another great change would be that Ana nade and discord orb would be nerfed because the death of one tank wouldn’t destroy the fight.
Bad changes; ruins queue times and is unnecessary. This would also mean no more Rein-Zarya. Double shield wasn't a 2× shield issue (it's explained in the video), and the supports enabling it were the main issue. It was an easy fix. Just make sure to nerf stuff like JQ shout (no more overhealth for anybody and slightly shorter duration, or just make it completely selfish), cardiac overdrive is selfish, orisa's sustain is nerfed, ramattra block, nemesis armor, and shield are shortened, remove sigma's grasp or shield and compensate a little, doomfist blocks lesser damage and nerf the emp punch cone, etc.
Roughly 2:05 tiktok: It's not a supports job to die to save your life Flats: Yes it is... As someone who frequently has matches where a tank rushes into a 1v5 situation, the dps are at a distance and the supports (including myself) are with the rest of the team when the tank pulled a Leroy Jenkins, I understand where the tiktok is coming from and I understand where Flats is coming from. Every time this happens I try desperately to keep the tank alive but when he charges into a 1v5 and he gets lit up by all sides there is only so much I can do. I have died many times trying to keep the tank alive but I have also had moments where I realize it may be best to fall back and regroup. On attack if the tank dies immediately at the start of the fight and the enemy's tank is still up, you can try and fight them but you run the risk of getting staggered. On Defense if a tank dies at the start of the fight it may be best to sacrifice some distance in order to provide a better defense in the next encounter.
Should Reinhardt be given the ability to place down his shield? It would allow him attack while the shield is up, putting him more in line with all other tanks. You can keep some of its inherent weakness by being unable throw it forward like other projected barriers.
I wish my “work” sitting in the comfort of my home all day playing video games with friends while the money literally appears on screen. But I guess notFlat considers it “socially draining” 😂😂😂 like being surrounded by rude customers and employees you have to tolerate no matter what isn’t socially draining
SO hear me out.... 7v7. lolol also yes pls i'd love to see flats and frogger videos, flats is the reason i enjoy OW2 content, frogger is the reason i still play this game as i main lucio aswell. (in the very early days it was dspstanky) frogger inspired me to git good at lucio lol, or at least feed alot more and have fun at the game while doing it.
having a role in the game that is as lopsided as tank is in overwatch 2 being only 1 of a team of mostly 2s, is always going to be impossible to balance properly
4:34 Firstly Flats was full on 5v5. Now he is kinda in between. What will be, when the QP hacked is there. He will be locked on with Emongg again and wants 6v6 to stay :)
5v5 is not a format issue, it’s a balance issue. And also just get good. If you queue tank, you should be expecting to get all the antis, all the sleeps, all your targets pulled and cleansed and ulted to stay alive, all the ults used on you, because you’re the tank. You’re the raid boss and they are literally trying to kill you. That is the point of playing tank, to have the pressure of the whole team on you.
Just like how they had comp arcade mystery heroes i kind of want them to have a separate comp 6v6 to see how that goes (the only thing is that if this goes really well no one might play normal comp that season)
what if in each game you could freely chose again, but you had to have at least one hero of each class on your team but being up to 3 heroes of a single role(exception for tank being up to 2). Also when you choose the roles, you actually choose the roles you are pretending to play, but you can choose which one you will or even swap mid game, if accessible. Of course there are some problems, but would be interesting to see in a QP hacked. I think the game should enable a bigger variety of comps, but it needs to be balanced in a way you NEED every single hero, not like now you that suport and DPS goes BRRRRR and a rein needs 30 swings and a shatter to kill a moira
0:29 “Never in my life have I went, oh they have a good Torb” Just stop the sentence there lmao
you havent seen me play torb i guess
I've had a positive Torb winrate every season since 2016. Don't @ me
@@bellsprout7748oops
i actually see one. He was really fucking good
Flats posting this as i got home from work truly top 500 timing
^
I'm on the way to work myself, so this is even more perfect timing for me, LOL
Heh, leaving work??? I haven’t left work in 15 years!!!
Lucky I’m at work rn
getting ready for work at 4 pm et
frogger and flats would be amazing
the problem is different continents making connection problems
@@MegalodonKing99 it ain’t that bad as someone from denmark who regularly talk with americans, but i suppose as a content creator it’s different
W pfp
@@MegalodonKing99frogger usually plays on NA servers anyways so it’s just be more of timing
@@kamizzy5215
honestly they used to play a bit in ow1 so that sounds great
Imagine they put 6v6 on experimental and no one can play competitive because all the tanks went to 6v6
i only play open queue because 2 tank way more fun
I hated having to rely on a selfish one trick who refused to synergize or counter pick. Absolutely miserable experience.
frogger and flats would be hilarious
Rein mentality be like “shield shield shield, swing, backup shield, pin around an f1 track praying you hit someone, shield, die, VALUE.
Love that lol this describes my play style as a rein main
I never swap
Frogger Flats duo!! Please make it happen!!!
Oh yeah, it's Flats time baby
Edit: FROGGER COLLAB WHEN?
"I can't see you"
"I know"
"Wait what" best reins 😂 my concern with 6v6 is the match making and visual clutter tbh
Is in the game really that much more visual clutter then in OW1 tho? Only thing I noticed is when ramatra uses his ult on night maps. I can't see shit through his aura as widow or ana. Other than that it's the same imo.
It is, considering just by your example, that's still only 5v5 your having issue with seeing which removes a player, specifically a tank, which of most characters in game tend to bring some of the highest clutter outright not including ults, now put yourself in the shoes of someone who is sensitive to bright lightning and other such thing lol I am not against it in the regard it'll make tank better but throw on top the que times mentioned, it'd be far less likely that it gets returned to that format cause idk bout you but I'm not sitting in a 15 minute que to play a match, just like the majority wouldn't and at current there aren't enough who play tank right now that would make that matchmaking better, basically blizzard dug a hole with tank and even swapping to 6v6 won't fix that glaring issue, people didn't want to play tank before, even less so now
@@ebhaenger8246now go imagine 2 ramattras and 2 maugas ulting at the same time, you wouldn't be able to see anything other than purple and orange splashes with machinegun.mp3
12:25 all that yapping just to forget Ram + Sigma can play double shield very well together
1:40 Flats describes the old Main Tank mentality. I miss those days. Now you get flamed if you arent right in front of your supports
As a ball player, I can confirm, if my teammates cannot see me, they will flame me for doing nothing, even if i kill the entire enemy team every fight.
@@cagxplays9602I relate too much to this. On ball it doesn't matter if you are distracting both the enemies supports and one of their DPS a whole fight, if you lose the teamfight you are the one who gets blamed more often then not, like it is not our fault our team can't win a 4v2
@@ethanhudson3799 BASED
That's cause there were 2 tanks, so if 1 went deep (either to distract them or just feed) it wasn't as big of an issue. Now if your tank does it and isn't able to create space or secure a valuable elim, the rest of the team gets fucked. 😅 I'm saying this as a flex player btw, seeing tanks not be able to make plays like they used to absolutely hurts like hell.
I got called a disgrace for playing Doomfist in quickplay by the enemy Doom
bro was really feeling himself out when he told you tank diff in a quickplay game, truly a sigma moment
@@khaledm.1476 he wasn't a sigma he was a doomfist 🙄
14:29 the man’s will to play the game, completely evaporated.
A frogger x flats vid would be so damn funny regardless of win or loss
0:30 well tbf never in my life have i ever heard anyone say they have a good torb 😭
U haven’t had me or jay3 on ur team tho so expected
now we need that duo with frogger
being able to see flats emongg jay3 karq and like frogger or something sounds like it would be so chaotic and funny to watch id love to see that
Ride with me to the gates of Savoungaurd Mercy we are gonna meet God
Sovengarde*
Frogger x Flats is something I need in my life.
Was just about to launch overwatch...guess its time to go to work
one in the same
My idea for fixing 6v6 is to split the tanks into two categories similar to how DPS were split at the start of the game where you have main/shield tanks like Rein, and offensive tanks like JQ, and you can only choose one from each category. Ofc you can swap play styles to make Rein more aggressive but just so we don’t have double shield meta I believe it might work out.
Watching this while I get ready for work
literally watching this while getting ready for work lmao
insane how perfectly timed this is
I am indeed watching this in the parking lot of work
Ditto
A good symmetra can be the difference between winning or losing sometimes. Especially with those clutch teleports.
I liked seeing the play rate versus winrate charts for rainbow six siege. Overwatch should do the same
Saving this for tommorow morning when i actually have to go to work, thanks flats :)
The issue isnt double shield coming back immediately but it will always limit design space for future tank characters
Wtf no it lets tanks be more unique it's the exact opposite of what you said LMAO
How so? If anything, 6v6 allows more unique tank designs because you can give tanks a specific niche and their own set of weaknesses/strengths. 5v5 demands them to be more generalists (they *require more* in their kit, which is the opposite of freedom of design), which in turn would force them to have a similar gameplay loop.
9:51
That was the first time I played Tracer seriously and I swapped off Genji since reflect was harder to use back then. Wow, suuuuper nostalgic
2:19 my friends always tell me never to dive with them as support because i need to learn how to prioritize myself and i always tell them, "im your ride or die support" lmao its the most fun playstyle as support
7:10 I think that double tank is WAY blown out of proportion. 1. Its just one meta, 2. there are only two range shield tanks, sigma who doesnt have any health on that shi, and ram who doesnt even get to use it that often, I could see them balancing shields so that you half to perfectly cycle your shields to cover your team, just to half to spend 3-5 seconds behind cover no matter what.
I think Sigma + Ram would work in creating a double shield meta. You are overestimating Rams cooldown
@@cooltwittertag I really don’t. I think they wouldn’t allow for two shields to cycle perfectly no matter what. There will be a down time in which you NEED natural cover
Top 500 timing in literally going to work while listening to this
I literally pretend season 8 doesn’t exist. 7 ate that b hahahaha. My head canon is WILD
yo flats could we get an revival event were we rewatch the last day of overwatch 1 tank duo with emongg, where you was like: "see you on the other side". that always bring me to tears....
the battle pass shit happened to me to 😭. We was getting hard held on the brazil map. Our tank left to buy battle pass and mauga duel. We still lost but the fact bro had to essentially pay to win to just cap point is crazy
I always watch Flats videos while I'm getting ready for work how did you know
I like having a role where if something is wrong - its usually my fault… my job was done or not… yeah nerf tanks and give half my survivability to another tank that I now have to rely on to do anything… oh boy… can’t wait… just because people don’t like counterpick meta when in reality all that means is people are rewarded for playing multiple heroes…
12:50 There was hardly any characters to pick from in the role. i'm not remotely shocked people quit signing up for the role especially near the end.
For 6v6 if the 6th spot it isn’t another tank but rather a new role for all the tanks without shields/shield-like abilities(queen,ball,hog,mauga,doom,maybe zarya due to how her bubbles work compared to actual shields/shield abilities) then I think it could work for 6v6 coming back without bringing back the double shield issues.
I swear I've seen Flats react to most of these before.
Probably watching the emongg or other streamers react like me and forgetting that not everyone is flats XD
You probably watched him react on stream or shorts.
I would love to see frogger hang out with you guys
I bet you could make “flats shirt color bingo”for scrolling TikTok.
The guy in the double shield video "double shield wouldn't be a problem" 10 seconds later "we would have to nerf Ramm so double shield isn't a problem" The clown also for got that DVA matrix has been buffed to hell and back, so shield matrix would also be annoying af. I feel like these nerds have a thought and just hit record and post that $hit without watching and back and thinking for two seconds. "this will be good content, heu heu heu"
i swear ive seen flats react to that 6v6 thing in an earlier tik tok react vid, i think some of these are getting reused. still enjoy it though lol
1:46 I’ve hit my supports with that exact “I know”
I want 6v6 as a separate qp game mode like how you can pick open queue, role queue, mystery heroes etc
I'd love to see a flats frogger duo
"Its not the support's job to give up their life to save yours" Yeah....its the tanks obviously
I like the dynamic of 5vs5 overwatch. It plays slower, but nicer to play
5:40 I don't really want to get into it, but I will say one thing that I like about 5v5 is that it's much easier for people without a ton of friends who play the game to get a full team.
Generally, the more people you have in a group, the more control you feel like you have over the game (Whether it's true or not). Feeling like we did everything we could feels better than X Player not doing Y thing when we needed it, whether we win or lose.
The healing passive is 90% there just to eat away at your Supports' ult charge after a fight has finished
2:12 This is my logic. We either all go in, or we are going to be staggering because yall were scared of dying. My thoughts to some teammates: "Why are you scared when they all are looking at me."
15:23 now thats a man with honor right there 👏 🙌 😂
2:45 looks exactly like Mauga with that physique 😂
The most OP thing in OW history is probably no hero limit.
When they said they would balance the game well enough for hero stacking not to be viable, I was already expecting a mess.
And then youtubers started Mei stacking on 2cp defense, and comp payload defense became D.va diving the cart, and it gor removed in what, a month ?
Fun times.
Yeah the biggest thing about 5v5 v 6v6 is queue times imo. I prefer the 5v5 format in general (as someone who’s played since late 2016). But even past person preference, I remember 6v6 queue times for damage was usually upwards of 15 minutes (on the low end) and could get to 30-45 for me
one of the main things really stopping you from having more tanks and tank players is 5v5 so the main argument against 6v6 being q times feels a bit redundant when it would also increase the player numbers of tanks. the thing to ask is would it add enough. but all that being said running a temporary event will not tell you if the tanks will stick around after the change
The reason I don't want 6v6 to come back isn't bc of double shield. Its bc of comps like Mauga + Queen + Brig + Moira + Reaper + Sojo/Bastion/someone else that would basically be unkillible snooze fests unlike anything we've ever seen before.
Zarya/Sig + Echo/Mei + Ana/Kiri could counter that though if they’re competent, that’s why 6v6 is the better option: the extra variables make even the best pirate ship able to be sunk. Limiting the variables limits the player agency thus 5v5 tank will always be kinda off putting
Mauga would need a rework if 6v6 came back
Like
Almost entirely
I honestly forget that Zen's discord STILL isn't 50%. Whenever I think of discord orb, I think of that clean 50% before anything else, even though it hasn't been like that for years.
Simple double shield fix is just put any tank with a shield in a seperate category as those without. Minus winton cause his shield is short. So you can pick rein zarya, but not rein sigma. You have to q for either shield tank, non shield tank, dps, or support.
KarQ: It is over, we've lost. What can man do against such reckless hate?
Flats, 2:36: Ride out with me.
Watching this at the start of my shift. What are the odds
Flats x frogger crossover would go crazy
What I love is that if OW2 keeps shitting on tank players the queue times will get worse because the tank players will quit. So, you know, they do have to throw the tank players a bone otherwise your queue time gains will be lost.
6:30
Honestly, the only modes I've ever really noticed the passives on are prop hunt and mystery heroes
Flats and Frogger duo??
Flats the goat
The tiktok saying how rein doesn't work well as a double shield hero, also shows him fighting against a rein sigma and shooting at barriers 90% of the time
Yeah, the moment they have some type of 6v6 mode is the moment i get to duo with my buddy again on tanks. Ball of Doom torture.
With 6v6, if there's a problematic pairing amongst the tanks and they're too oppressive together simply impliment a lockout of one if the other is picked until you have the time to work on making them fair again. No need to leave it for 12 weeks because you were backed up. Just soft ban the duo, see if you can fix it, if you can't just let the community know that certain tanks will be unable to be played together for balancing and you'll upset a few tank mains who can't play their fave sometimes, but those people should know that they'd already be blocked out from their main 10% of the time now that there is two people in the role and it just goes up to 20%, not a huge deal if the alternative means back to 5v5
I think 6v6 could work better than 5v5 but, there would need to be some changes to Tank. I would envision Tank being split into shield and non shield tanks; no double shield ever again please god. So Rein, Ram, Sigma, Winston and Zarya would be in one role. Doom, DVA (I know the matrix kinda counts but dive without her and Winston isn’t the same), Ball, Orisa (who needs a severe nerf to her damage reduction, and a increase in spear damage to compensate), Mauga and Junker Queen. This would make Tank significantly more fun as each new Tank now has not only their own individual skill ceiling but also the new tanks of Ram, Doom, Orisa, Mauga and JQ have to learn to play and combo with another tank. This would also probably help combat a lack of skill ceiling that has ruined low play, with widow being the highest skill ceiling (debatable but I think I’m right) but other characters need changes to help build skill ceiling’s. Like Mercy, who already needs a major change to compete in a new environment. You would also need to do some slight tweaks to damage potential of tanks to reverse changes made in OW2. This would put you ahead of OW while also giving you the out of things having changed and Blizzard learning more about game balance. 5v5 is just permanently broken and it no longer feels like a team game anymore, with self reliance and winning 1v1s being highly important in lower ranks.
There's a few major issues though, if you were to split tank in to 2 roles, that would hurt matchmaking and queue times alot, especially because now not only do you need 2 of the least popular role, but one from both categories.
Then, how do you classify which tank goes into which category? Ramattra has a shield but is way different from Sigma, then Sigma is considered an off tank while ball is a main tank. So if you go the shield route, you also have to balance one half of the tanks around their shield, even though how they are used is very different. Tank would just need to be 2 of any different tanks again like in OW1. This would work fine anyway since Orisa is reworked.
double shield was a single patch issue that went unchanged for 3 years. In the current state of the game with the orisa rework, mauga's ability to melt shields, and rammattra simply existing it is a non-issue
@@lordbored7006 But with two tanks with shields? And the bigger shields health pool? Plus, Mauga and all tanks will get a nerf to their damage and maybe health pool, also with discord orbs, Ana nade and higher dps damage chances are shooting at that shield would leave him dead pretty quickly given enough team play. I think that you wouldn’t queue for shield or non shield tank, but you could only choose one once your in. Another great change would be that Ana nade and discord orb would be nerfed because the death of one tank wouldn’t destroy the fight.
Bad changes; ruins queue times and is unnecessary. This would also mean no more Rein-Zarya. Double shield wasn't a 2× shield issue (it's explained in the video), and the supports enabling it were the main issue. It was an easy fix.
Just make sure to nerf stuff like JQ shout (no more overhealth for anybody and slightly shorter duration, or just make it completely selfish), cardiac overdrive is selfish, orisa's sustain is nerfed, ramattra block, nemesis armor, and shield are shortened, remove sigma's grasp or shield and compensate a little, doomfist blocks lesser damage and nerf the emp punch cone, etc.
Roughly 2:05
tiktok: It's not a supports job to die to save your life
Flats: Yes it is...
As someone who frequently has matches where a tank rushes into a 1v5 situation, the dps are at a distance and the supports (including myself) are with the rest of the team when the tank pulled a Leroy Jenkins, I understand where the tiktok is coming from and I understand where Flats is coming from. Every time this happens I try desperately to keep the tank alive but when he charges into a 1v5 and he gets lit up by all sides there is only so much I can do. I have died many times trying to keep the tank alive but I have also had moments where I realize it may be best to fall back and regroup. On attack if the tank dies immediately at the start of the fight and the enemy's tank is still up, you can try and fight them but you run the risk of getting staggered. On Defense if a tank dies at the start of the fight it may be best to sacrifice some distance in order to provide a better defense in the next encounter.
Flats was joking
@@SoleadoSP9 it can be kind of hard to tell sometimes
Should Reinhardt be given the ability to place down his shield? It would allow him attack while the shield is up, putting him more in line with all other tanks. You can keep some of its inherent weakness by being unable throw it forward like other projected barriers.
"Tank qas ass in ov1 so we had long queue times..." TANK IS STILL ASS IN 2024. What is the definition of insanity?
I wish my “work” sitting in the comfort of my home all day playing video games with friends while the money literally appears on screen. But I guess notFlat considers it “socially draining” 😂😂😂 like being surrounded by rude customers and employees you have to tolerate no matter what isn’t socially draining
i started at the end of overwatch 1 and tbh
6v6 is cool only if people wanna cooperate
Rein main: doesn't duo with lucio mains.
I man the reson they removed a tanks was
The funny thing is, orisa WAS a good answer to torb… in OW1
SO hear me out.... 7v7. lolol
also yes pls i'd love to see flats and frogger videos, flats is the reason i enjoy OW2 content, frogger is the reason i still play this game as i main lucio aswell.
(in the very early days it was dspstanky) frogger inspired me to git good at lucio lol, or at least feed alot more and have fun at the game while doing it.
I personally miss the classic flats rein and emongg zarya.
im so over 5v5 or 6v6. im ready for 10v10 or 12v12 on big chonker maps
10v10 no limits pog
the 2 in OW2 stands for the 2 less people playing per match ;)
What if there was 6v6 1 tank 2 dps 2 support 1 flex?
Flats!! What if they added a 6th player but they were a flex. So they could play any role? Whats ur take on that?
having a role in the game that is as lopsided as tank is in overwatch 2 being only 1 of a team of mostly 2s, is always going to be impossible to balance properly
A 6v6 mode test would need to be role queue not open queue like they did with bringing back Assault maps to arcade only.
4:34 Firstly Flats was full on 5v5. Now he is kinda in between. What will be, when the QP hacked is there. He will be locked on with Emongg again and wants 6v6 to stay :)
3:07 tbh playing against ai in the practice section just go in difficult level and there you go but quickplay is still the best option
2:30 no b*tch sh*t until you expect me to. I am happy as a support when I get solo ulted if my team can survive a little longer.
5v5 is not a format issue, it’s a balance issue. And also just get good. If you queue tank, you should be expecting to get all the antis, all the sleeps, all your targets pulled and cleansed and ulted to stay alive, all the ults used on you, because you’re the tank. You’re the raid boss and they are literally trying to kill you. That is the point of playing tank, to have the pressure of the whole team on you.
The guy doesn't understand how Blizzard uses win rates
It's all fun and games until the granny jumps in lmao
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I love chasing off Genjis as Ana.
I'm already at work
Just like how they had comp arcade mystery heroes i kind of want them to have a separate comp 6v6 to see how that goes (the only thing is that if this goes really well no one might play normal comp that season)
I wonder how tank doom would fit in for 6v6
what if in 6v6 they made 2 tank roles a main and off tank role, and limited which tanks can play each so you can't get a double shield
SPEEDSPORT! spotted
what if in each game you could freely chose again, but you had to have at least one hero of each class on your team but being up to 3 heroes of a single role(exception for tank being up to 2). Also when you choose the roles, you actually choose the roles you are pretending to play, but you can choose which one you will or even swap mid game, if accessible.
Of course there are some problems, but would be interesting to see in a QP hacked. I think the game should enable a bigger variety of comps, but it needs to be balanced in a way you NEED every single hero, not like now you that suport and DPS goes BRRRRR and a rein needs 30 swings and a shatter to kill a moira