Lagrange Points - Sixty Symbols
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- Discussing Lagrangian (Lagrange) points, orbits and gravity.
Speaking is Professor Mike Merrifield. Animations by Pete McPartlan.
Pete's website is: www.petemcpartl...
Professor Merrifield tweets at / profmike_m
Deep Sky Videos is our astronomy channel - / deepskyvideos
Visit our the Sixty Symbols website at www.sixtysymbol...
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This project features scientists from The University of Nottingham
Sixty Symbols videos by Brady Haran
This is honestly the best description EVER of LaGrange points! Thank you Professor Merrifield!
Seriously.
Orbit where high speed defies gravity and keeps things in Space but not affected by Suns gravity or the Moons gravity....imagine keeping the ISS at the altitude travelling 17,000mph can you imagine how much they would have to point down...
LOL if I fire a cannon ball slow it lands quicker Lol if I fire it quicker it goes further Sir Issac Newton is full of P**
Justin P Orbital dynamics ..fire a cannon ball fast enough it will stay in orbit...That sh*t?
Yeah. It's pretty simple, really. Think of a basketball going 'round and 'round a hoop instead of falling straight in. Objects in orbit are always falling towards the Earth - they're just moving so quickly sideways that they essentially keep missing the ground.
Justin P LOL... essentially keep missing the ground.....How as it would always spiral downwards.
Like a charity coin box that allows the coin to spin then fall into the hole.
Simple it is not or if I fired the fastest gun/bullet it would come back and shoot me in the a$$....it is science BS
Hello from the future! JWST has now been launched and all these years later, this video is still one of the best explanations of L2 that exists to the general public
This is the best description of Lagrange points I've come across so far. Thank you Professor Merrifield!
thanks - the animations were by Pete McPartlan - it says on the screen and see the video description for his details! :)
(you can currently bid for the original sketches he used for the animations!)
“and the James Webb Space Telescope, which hasn’t yet been launched…” 2:44
JWST Launch Date: Finally, we can say otherwise!
Nice animations, really pulls everything together and makes it very simple to understand.
I love getting these to show up in my feed again just after the successful launch of James Webb!
Professor Mike must be an extraordinary lecturer. Not only does he explain stuff clearly, his superfast speech is actually pleasant to listen to. And for whatever reason, the clarity of his voice boosts interest and comprehension (at least for me).
I love how space always makes a low rumbly noise :)
It's the sonic form of infrared.
"In space, nobody can hear you scream over the low rumbling of space" xD
@@Pauly421 😆
@@bowtangey6830 It's nonsense it what it is. We have infrared on earth too we don't transduce it into acoustic energy just cuz silence "feels" wrong.
Due to inaccurate description of the Lagrange points in another UA-cam video I always assumed that gravity didn't exist at those points for some reason. Thanks to your video I now understand that gravity exists everywhere and that the Language points are just points of gravitational balance between three objects. Brilliantly explained.
and the centrifugal force.
Fantastic, I finally got an explanation for why L4 and L5 are inherently stable.
As a computer science major 4 years out of University, I'm debating going back to school for physics. These videos and the hundreds of lectures I've listened to from famous physicists are just absolutely fascinating.
I've been waiting for this sixty symbols video for a long time! I'm so glad you guys finally got the time to make it. I find LaGrange points to be a particularly interesting phenomena... so it was really exciting to see this pop up in my feed today. :) Thanks Brady and Professor Merrifield!
This is one of the clearest explanations of Lagrange points I've seen. It's impressive seeing it done without gravity potentials.
Fascinating. Pure Science.
Thank you. I liked your lucid explanation. The bit about the L4 and L5 was especially intriguing.
Woo! I finally understand Legrange points!
I understand Lagrange points and Trojan orbits now, thank you. Its just so hard to describe it all in words
thank you - we always have more to come!
(tell your friends about us)
Wow, this was very interesting!
Thank You again Brady and prof Merrifield for fun and free piece of education! :)
The more I know, the more Physics (and Science in general) astonishes me. Brilliant.
Also: very simple and neat explanation of the Langrange Points. Well done Sixty Symbols!
I am here, celebrating the James Webb Launch. Who else is?
Congratulations, and reach on- L2!
I am, does anyone know how the satellite orbits in a halo shape around L2?
There's nothing for it to physically orbit around or is it a powered orbit, which sounds like it would be expensive.
@@programmer1840 Here it says its just 63 gallons of fuel and oxidizer ?
Seems not much, but given the low gradient of the unstable L2 point and the size and weight of the satellite compared to the bigger system, it could be sufficient.
Also as the course corrections can be done by taking longer time periods with minimal forces, it won't need too much fuel.
And that is why it takes six months instead of few hours to reach there in the first place. Because it has to choose minimum thrust-minimum velocity approach to save fuel by avoiding any large acceleration and throttling-back.
i just have to say; I've heard a fair bit about lagrange points over the past few years but this is the first time I've really felt like I've started to understand how they exist. as with everything im taking this as a "dumbed down" example but it still makes it eastern to see in my head than most other sources. thanks for being such a good teacher (it must be awesome to study at that uni)
Greeks and Trojans asteroids! Astronomers must really like the Iliad!
the warring Greeks and Trojans, and Jupiter stuck in the middle having to pick a side
Wanted an explanation of lagrange points... Saw sixty symbols, and knew it would be good. Thanks guys 👍
Great video; made me subscribe!
Go Nottingham :D
2 weeks ago I was reading about the restricted three body problem and the Lagrange points. This video cleared up a lot of things I didn't quite understand, thank you so much.
7:45 Yay! Poland
Confirmed! Jeb kerman lovs Poland
I'm reading Seveneaves by Neal Stephenson right now and I came back to this video to get some context on the book. thanks sixty symbols!
4:20 - "Orbit that oscillates around the Lagrange point." How can a satellite oscillate around a point if there is no mass to revolve around?
Definition of orbit: "the gravitationally curved trajectory of an object around a point in space". So the term is accurate.
You can think of the lagrange points as hilltops and sinkholes in the pull of gravity. L1, L2, and L3 are like a ball balanced at the very peak of a small hill; it's easy to keep it there if you just nudge it gently back into place, but if you leave it alone even the slightest disturbance will send it wandering off.
L4 and L5 are like sinkholes, or bowls, in the pull of gravity. Like a marble rolling around a bowl, satellites will 'orbit' the center of the lagrange point. That's why asteroids will tend to gather at L4 and L5.
By your explanation, shouldn't the satellite at L2 roll "downhill" once it's no longer balanced at the peak of the gravitational hill? I still don't understand how it can orbit around the peak. I could see it orbiting around the center of L4 & L5, which behave like gravitational "bowls", but not L1 & L2 where it's so easy to wander off, there's nothing pulling it back.
I was thinking the same thing@@marquizzo, then I realized that these "hills" are not stationary. The L2 point is constantly moving in an orbit as well. So I think what may be happening is that the "hill" is being pushed towards the satellite with just enough force that it remains on the side of the hill, and the satellite is rotating around the hill at the right speed so that it's always being pushed up towards the peak (with just enough force that it doesn’t travel up the hill but is just held in place). Could that be how it works? I haven’t confirmed this, it’s just in my head, but it makes sense to me. Is there anyone out there who has more info that can confirm if this is correct? My hesitation that makes me think this might not be correct is that it doesn’t seem to match the animation they’ve made for it in the video.
It's awesome for me because I've heard of these a lot but I'd never clearly understood why they existed until this video explained it so well!
Can't believe, most of the comments are over 8 yrs here . And here we are after the James web dispatched into the L2 .
Lagrange points! Learned about these from Mobile Suit Gundam, made all the way back in 1979.
Space colonies (Sides) were set up at various Lagrange points in the show using the O'Neill cylinder shape. It made a set map in space for the show to act out in, and started my interest in astrophysics!
That's a common misconception, that Earth orbits the sun. Earth and the sun orbit their common center of mass. Now if you really want to bake your noodle, try computing that for all eight planets :O
The sun does not orbit the center of mass of the Earth-sun system because as you point out, there are seven other planets having an effect on the sun. The Earth orbits the Earth-sun center of mass (for the most part), but those who simply say that the Earth orbits the sun are not so wrong that they need correcting. The center of mass of the Earth-sun system is just 450 km from the center of the sun (whose radius is 695,800 km), so basically - the center of the sun. Let's not get too anal here.
Willoughby Krenzteinburg
Just something to think about. Thanks for expanding on that.
not worth it unless your after more than 4 sig-figs, at that point theres most likely other more important inaccuracys, but the moon the sun and the earth can be a fun problem
Except the mass of the sun is far far far greater than that of the earth. Earth orbits the sun. Jupiter probably still has the most effect on the sun, but it still is not much.
The Earth does orbit the sun. The Center of mass of the sun and the Earth is inside the sun. The Earth orbits the sun.
this channel, minutephysics, scishow, and veratasium, etc. make me happy.
I love physics (and all of science really) and find it fascinating and its refreshing to know that there are channels out there with amazing videos such as this one. Sometimes I wish I had studied physics at university rather than architecture.
So what exactly is wrong with a geostationary orbit? Seems like it got glossed over.
thekaxmax Oh. Now I get that the whole point of this Lagrange points explanation was based around the problem of stationing *telescopes specifically*.
Well the problem with geostationary orbit is that you can have the satellite/telescope between the sun and the earth. This is not really needed as it will cause more disturbance (from sun and earth) if you want to measure something far away from the solar system. So you end up with L2 point which makes it nice and tidy
Such simplified explanation with visuals is just outstanding. Thank you and congratulations on making popular science really scientific as it was supposed to be at the first place but never was
How does the satellite orbit around the lagrange point? 4:22
rockets, I expect.
+Rob Mckennie no. you could never get enough fuel up there to keep firing.
Im having a hard time remebering exactly. but i believe it had something to with the pull and tug of the sun and earth gravity.. we just got to get it moving in the right sized circle, and the sun/earth gravities will move it around.
Look it up: Lissajous' orbit. Its quite fascinating.
Thank you!
It's basically an oval shaped orbit that is being dragged around the sun by the earth + sun. The small orbit comes from "orbiting" the earth, but at an offset of how the earth is circling the sun (obviously the animation is not drawn to scale). If it weren't for the larger orbit, it wouldn't be able to maintain the smaller one. In fact, if you looked at a top down view of it's overall orbital path, it would probably resemble the outline of a saw blade.
The original art used to create the animations is on ebay - see link in the video description.
Not only are they COOL looking (I honestly want them for myself) and a unique Sixty Symbols item - the proceeds go to Pete for the MANY hours he spent helping us.
Not a single ZZ Top reference.
Very nice qualitative description, thank you Professor!
Hello, JWST fans!
It's about time you put out a new video. It's a fascinating one. Well they're all fascinating ones.
wow, this really reminded me of gundam...
I always love seeing your videos with Professor Mike Merrifield, Brady. :) He's a joy to listen to; would that I had the chance to study under him.
I always thought La Grange was where they had a lot of nice girls...
LOL I think you might be thinking about La La Grange :)
Fred Lockard I was wondering how long before someone recognized the ZZ Top reference.
A- how how how how
Where they have a lot of nice girls... AHHHH!
That's the LOL point. :-)
Excellent explanation. This video captivates you until the end.
I want to know if this is simulated in Kerbal Space Program!
nope, KSP doesn't simulate gravity of multiple planets at the same time as that would require a massive amount of processing power, and it's not the only thing it doesn't simulate
Ah! If only...! I am sure you and I and many others would love to have it but squad has mentioned that they do not plan to implement n-body physics, of which the 3 body problem as mentioned in the video is needed to simulate Lagrange points. It would unfortunately lead to unstable orbits and computationally expensive calculations that are not currently desirable.
We need Personal Quantum Computers (tm) now!
It's not
Hi,Christen.
I play KSP too, and no, this isn't simulated in KSP, me, and many other players would like it in KSP, but the devs have stated the difficulty of adding this.
Right now KSP works on a Sphere of influence, meaning if you are in the sphere of influence, of say, Kerbin, the gravity of the other bodies have no effect on you.
Meaning if you are were geometrically would be the lagrange point, you'll just be in orbit of Kerbin with 0 interaction with the Sun. Basically in KSP you are only affected by one body. It's called the 1 body problem. It's not very realistic.
In the universe there can be an infinite amounts of bodies, but in KSP you can only be influenced by 1 at a time.
Excellent explanation of L4 and L5, thanks!
Can a ping pong ball orbit a basketball in space?
Let's say that:
The weight of a basketball is 0.625 kg.
The weight of a ping pong ball is 2.47*10^-3 kg.
The diameter of a basketball is 25 cm.
The diameter of a ping pong ball is 40 mm.
Then the ping pong ball can orbit the basketball with the shortest possible distance between the centers (14.5 cm), if the speed of the ping pong ball is 9.16*10^-5 m/s.
So it is possible if the speed is very slow, and it is very unstable... but possible.
cimmik thanks for explaining that for me, I was really curious.
+Jans Losn
Almost anything with a mass can orbit around anything else with a mass. It's just a matter of how distance and the speed of the orbiting body.
+cimmik Would the orbit of a 1cm in diameter ball of tin around a 1m diameter ball of Uranium be more stable? And then could I have a pea at the L4 point of the tin and uranium ball system?
+5thDragonDreamCaster theoretically, yes. but if you try to do this, the mass of literally anything would be so big it over powers it completely. I can't imagine this working in LEO or within light years from a star since a pea isn't known to have much mass.
This one was so awesome because I had never heard of these before at all.
Not to scale, NOT TO SCALE. How about mentioning that it also IS NOT circular!!!! =D
Maybe he meant that the major and minor axes weren't scale.
:O
Yes, the orbit of the earth is indeed elliptical. The difference between the major and minor axes are quite small however - about 3%.
It's a quite common misconception. Images in our textbooks exaggerate the eccentricity of the orbits making them appear much larger than they actually are.
Is it axes, axis, or axies? Axes are weapons, axis is the singular, and axies would be is the singular were asix, so...
I thought the orbit was a straight line in a curved space, so is it the space that is elliptical?
I studied engineering for two years but I switched careers and starting next semester ill be in physics, this channel is making me even more excited about it!
This was amazing! One has to explain this before they directly jump to the points and go to the depths of what lagranges points and equations are. It was so simple and easy to understand. Though I didn't get how exactly L4 works though, if anyone could explain it'd be great. Thank you for the video.
I've been reading up on Lagrange Points a bit and later checked out 5 different UA-cam movies explaining it. This was by far the best explanation I've seen. It answered a few questions I had. Like why couldn't you put satellites anywhere on the same orbit as the Earth, instead of only at the L4 and L5 points.
Thanks a lot!
I still have two questions that I don't totally get, maybe someone can help?
1) What happens if a mass becomes too big at a Lagrange Point, and what kind of mass do you need so that the restricted three body problem won't work?
2) You can orbit L1, L2 and L3. But not L4 and L5. Why is that? I've heard that L1, L2 and L3 are more like peaks and L4 and L5 more like valleys, but I don't understand this well enough yet.
=D
So amazing that Euler and Lagrange figured this stuff out ~200 years ago
Now I understand the mystery of LaGrange points. Thanks.
The quality of these videos are really improving. The animations and quicker pacing was really helpful and entertaining for me.
I've known what the Lagrange points are for many years, but I never fully understood how the gravity balances out/keeps things in place until now. Thanks!
That's correct. :) Whether a point is a maximum or minimum is what determines whether the point is a stable or unstable equilibrium.
@sixtysymbol the new animations are very cool! definitely helps to visualize the problem.
Thanx for making it so easy understandable. You guys are heroes in my book for that!
That's a good question and I think they touched on it a little in this video when they were talking about 'stable points' vs unstable. The difference between the two can be minute with an 'unstable' orbit taking years or even decades to go through it's permutations and degrade. I'm not a scientist but I believe the answer is 'maybe' in the short term, years decades, and closer to no in the long term due to the effect the moons planet would have on nearby orbiting bodies.
Fantastic explanation! does makes the concept of Lagrange points seem much clearer.
One of the best, if not THE best thing on youtube.
Really well explained. I always found L4 and 5 unintuitive from reading articles and this has helped me grasp them.
This is a really great video. I've heard of the Lagrange points before, but I never bothered to learn about them. Thanks for this video!
Probably the best video on this channel, and that's saying something.
An excellent explanation! Thanks for putting this together!
Finally an explanation for why satellites oscillate at the L2 point - kept seeing simulations of the JWST where it is orbiting like a bike wheel around the L2 point with no explanation! Thanks YT algorithm for suggesting this 8 year old video months after I first searched for the answer 😂
It’s wild how now, in 2022, we are utilizing the L2.4 hour greatest observatory ever. The James Webb telescope
We literally talked about this the other day in one of my classes... love it. Thank you.
Arthur C. Clarke put some space stations on Lagrange points in the Venus Prime series, if I recall correctly. It is very nice to have a better understanding on how they work and the visual aid to know where they are located.
Learn so much cool stuff from this channel, love you guys!
Great animations. It made understanding this a very easy task.
Nice to know about these things....I didn't had a clue and quite nice animations as well, very informative.
When several bodies are involved, the gravitational field can assume a saddle-like shape - it pulls out in one direction and attracts stuff in the other. A good example is the L1 point described in this video. When sparse matter gets into such region, it will get stretched into a disk around the center.
i believe this is the first Sixty symbol video i understood 100%. I think the animation helped big time!
That's a great, simple explanation of Legrange points! Thanks!
This was very helpful and easy to understand explanation.
One of the best videos from this channel!!
Always excited to see a new sixysymbols video in my subscriptions! Still my favorite channel of the group. :) Great video, thanks for posting!
4:51 JOURNEY TO THE FAR SIDE OF THE SUN, from the early 1970's, and LEXX season 3, from the late 1990's
"JOURNEY" was originally titled "DOPPELGANGER". But SOMEBODY thought us AMERICANS could not comprehend that name, so the title was changed for the American release.
finally i understand how L4 and L5 works! Thank you!
This is a really confusing topic and this video does the best explanation of it I've ever seen! Just found your channel too!!
Thank you for putting this together for us
Thank You! I've wanted to know more about Lagrange points for some time!
Amazing...8:54 minutes later, I finally understand Lagrange points. THANK YOU!
I decided to apply for a Physics program after 5 years out of school because of these videos and some very good books (Those by Brian Greene and those about Richard Feynman in particular). It's been going well thus far. :)
Excellent job explaining the Lagrange points!
Great video. Very clear explanation and a good summary of the importance of Lagrange points.
Wow this is great, never thought about these kind of orbits before. Thanks for the video.
Thanks, I had a hard time understanding Lagrange points from Wikipedia, this video is much clearer for me.
Also, calculating the Lagrange point is actually really simple. I did it in high school physics when I was waiting for class to start. You simply need to use the gravity formula and rearrange it to accommodate two bodies. Granted, this only gives you the first two or three, though the others just deal with vectors. If you're interested and you want to know more about it, I suggest you look into learning how to find them. You can even find them for people!
That was a very interesting video about a phenomenon that was completely new to me.
thank you, I read up on this topic and sort of understood it but this video was far more digestable.
I was confused for a second having heard "the two Ronnie problem" rather than "the two body problem"... Great video. Fascinating topic.
This is my favorite sixty symbols video I've ever seen! I'm going to send it to my calc prof!
The animation really helped a lot at visualising these points. Great video!
The algorithm knows these are being talked about right now!
Legends are very much appreciated, thank you very much!!!