VIOLIN VS VIOLA - What's the difference?
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2023
- Viola technique is different from violin technique... Great! How??
Much love, Heather x
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Chapters
00:23 Intro
00:24 Bow Holds
01:28 Arm Weight & Sound production
03:21 LH Differences
03:41 Finger Placement
04:55 Vibrato
06:21 Thumb Position
08:04 4th Finger Problems
08:56 Double-Stops
09:50 Fine Tuners
11:00 Different Clefs - Навчання та стиль
OMG this video is INCREDIBLE! Im obsessed with your channel. All my teachers have been violinists who also teach Viola and I've been struggling to get that rich sound so characteristic of the Viola. Turns out its because I'm playing like a violinist! Thank you, thank you! You're amazing
Oh bless you what a kind thing to say! Thank you very much ☺️ x
"a bit further apart means more room for error"💀 I love it
😂 it’s the unfortunate truth!
As one who had both instruments, thank you. I learned a lot.
Thank you so much! Glad it was helpful :-)
Thank you for this video. Your insights are wonderful!
Thank you so much!
Thank you for making this AWESOME video!!!
I played the viola until my mid teens and sadly/stupidly gave up. I started viola lessons about 15 months ago ( at nearly 40) and have fallen in love all over again ❤
You’re so welcome! Aw I’m so excited for you 😃 x
Thank you so much, I had to make notes as you had so much great information, I play Viola and I am learning fiddle.
Viola Violin
1. Pads on strings finger points on strings richness on viola
2. heavy bow light bow
3. play below string play on top of strings
4. strong grip on frog light and not so on frog
5. arm vibrato wrist vibrato
6. thumb underneath thumb on the side more easy balance and more support for viola
7. roll hand on strings stretch fingers so 1. can stay on string on viola roll fingers which needs to release finger 1.
8. Double stops harder, more pad on string
9. Viola not fine tuners as they deaden the sound Violins have fine tuners fine tuners wear out strings and pull on bridge
Such superb video and we have not seen you for so long, welcome back.
Glad you enjoyed!
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it! X
@@heatherhawken I took violin. All of my siblings took violin or Viola. Only one of us took both. Before this video I thought the only difference was size and the strings. G,D,A,E for violin and C,G,D,A for Viola. I did know about the different clefs though.
@@CharlotteRuth you’re definitely not alone there! I’ve had so many conversations where people genuinely didn’t know that there were any differences really. One of the reasons I wanted to make the video ☺️ x
Interesting thoughts ! My first instrument in elementary school was viola. As an adult I acquired a few nice violins and learned exactly the details and differences you demonstrate. They're rather like girlfriends: all wonderful, but each quite different and responds in its own special way. Still, in the most contemplative moments, I always reach for the viola ! Thanks for the video, but your puppy looks so bored !!
She's definitely sick of my talking away to a camera! I promise she got a walk straight after this, she's a very patient girl bless her
Naw, there are no differences. It's just an optical illusion. Violinists have bigger heads so the violin looks smaller next to the violinist's head.
Now I couldn’t possibly comment… 🤣 x
@@heatherhawken It would probably explain a lot if I told you I was a recovering trumpet player.
But I thought viola players were all previously violinists who failed at the violin? And they needed to take up the viola which is an easier part in the orchestra? Viola is more of a pastime than a profession?
@@hamwhacker Unfortunately, that has been the case for some that have been 'encouraged' into viola.
I have seen Lawrence Power play viola and violin in the same concert. I respect him 110% as a musician but really he is world class on the viola but only average on the violin, mainly because it is a different physical technique on the viola I think. Certainly you use a heavier bow and consequently stronger bowing arm. So a typical good viola player will produce a pressed sound on the violin.
I don’t know any player who is world class in both.
On the viola there is a huge advantage having a good instrument. Hard to find a really decent viola, but when you do it is so enjoyable to play viola rather than violin.
Yeah I think swapping between the two definitely comes at the detriment to one of the instruments at some point…
Sadly it’s true that it can be really hard to find a good viola, when I was looking for a new instrument a lovely instrument seller said that viola players are the pickiest customers he has!
Thank you. A great video. I'm self taught on fiddle (I only call it a violin on Sunday if we have guests over). I love the tone of a viola, and want to use it to play slow ballads.
I have learnt to avoid a gorilla grip on the violin, a light touch is better. This video has taught me a lot about being a bit firmer with the viola. Thumb position and rocking the hand up for fourth finger very interesting; I would have considered this very naughty, but will now give it a go.
Haha there are quite a few elements of viola technique that are considered “naughty” but the instrument is quite unwieldy so with a lot of them it’s a case of simply doing what you need to!
This is what i needed, my violin teacher made a comment that if 5th position on violin feels too crowded, that I may have to switch to viola. I like the viola, but you've confirmed all the reasons why i picked violin over viola in the first place :P I'll switch to cello if push comes to shove, i really enjoy strings! Thank you! SUPER helpful video
You’re so welcome! That’s good advice to be fair ☺️ haha yes I secretly will forever wish I played the cello…
I've seen a large cellist play a full size cello that looked like he was playing a half size cello. While I was doing my 7th grade violin (AMEB) I was also playing cello, much to the horror of my violin teacher, saying it would interfere with my violin technique, but when any cellist sees me playing cello they say I have the left hand position & bow hold of a violinist. 😉
Hi Heater,
it's me again - in another video you said it's allways a benefit to ask 🙂
Regarding the different bowholds, you said/showed that on viola the right hand is deeper than on the violin. I learned that on the violin basically the creases of the first finger joints have contact to the bow rod. For viola, you showed it like that more the middle parts of every finger has contact.
I just watched videos with Nils Mönkemeyer, Antoine Tamestit and David Aaron Carpenter, but they all use a very light bow hold that seems not really different to the violin bow hold. But they have the elbow slightly lower than on the violin (that's how I learned it too). However, I also watched a recording of Brahms 3, and some in the viola section (but not more than the half) had a lower bow hold in a way you showed.
So now I wonder, if at the violin you have Franco-Belgium and Russian bow holds, if it's something like this on viola - simply different schools that teach things different?
If it's like this, does this kind of "schools" have also names?
Have a nice day!
So bow holds are something that are tricky to talk about in a general way because a lot of it depends on your bow and instrument and what works best with them. For me, this is the bow hold I've found works best for getting that lovely rich viola sound that is required for orchestral playing 😊 I'm sure the different schools as you say do have different names but I must confess my ignorance on that score
@@heatherhawken OK, this confuses me even after years, as I see (my) behaviours moving slightly away during the months and years from what I once learned. And when I see someone doing it completely different, I have to re-check everything. I go to public concerts at the music college frequently, they are on an extremely advanced level, and at the beginning I wondered a lot about the "strange" bowholds some of the students had. They were far away from what I had learned, but obviously sufficient to play very challenging pieces with an extremely good sound. So, every body is different, and changing behaviours is very dangerous... but anyway I will start to experiment a little.
Fine tuners can also change the afterlength of the strings (the distance from bridge to tailpiece). This afterlength can give the player extra overtones to help increase the overall sound production. Whitner tailpieces are excellent for this, as the fine tuners are built into the tailpiece. However, it’s possible that the extra weight of the mechanism and the plastic material used for the Whitner tailpiece, could also dampen the sound slightly. However, I have not found this to be too disadvantageous. I personally just have an A-string fine tuner and just use pegs for my regular tuning stuff. If your pegs are fitted well, you can tune pretty comfortably once you get used to it.
You make a very good point! It can be very instrument dependent as with most things. String instruments don’t make it easy for us!
I put Whitner geared pegs on all my instruments. I can see no point in struggling with sticking or slipping pegs. Takes a bit longer to change a string, but so what, I've saved several hours over the year by tuning up in seconds rather than minutes.
@@davew7948 I do believe there is some resonance you lose by using the Whitner pegs, but I don't know if there has been any research into it. For a lot of people, the difference in resonance is probably not enough to cause any major issues, and Whitner products in general are so amazingly reliable and useful. I have many students who use the geared pegs, and they work great. It's a tricky thing because it can be a heated topic (as many music related topics), and I think it really ends up to being a personal preference thing. Personally, I wouldn't use them on my own instruments, but this is because I've got very well fitted pegs and I make sure that my winding is set up in a way that I never have any issues with pegs slipping or sticking. The other reason is that where I live the moisture level stays pretty consistent and only changes drastically a few times a year, which means string instruments where I live are less likely to encounter slipping or sticking.
@@rohwermusicstudios thanks for the reply. It certainly is an emotive topic on any forum it comes up on. My violin playing has many faults, in fact one could ask why I need the open strings in tune when all the fingered notes are out. So for me a lack of resonance is of no concern.
@@davew7948 Haha! As a violist, intonation is always a struggle. It reminds me of the viola joke: "How are SCUD missiles and viola players the same? Because they are both offensive and inaccurate!"
There's a quick check you can on your bridge setup that may help you with fingering: is your bridge sitting straight in the middle between the lower/inside notches on the F-holes? One of the biggest things that can change where your fingers have to go is if your bridge isn't centered and lined up properly. I've had quite a few students where this was the problem for them. As soon as we adjusted their bridge, their intonation drastically improved.
Thanks for the useful tips. Since you mentioned fine tuners, have you seen any bejeweled fine tuners? How hard would that be to install myself? Okay, so this is a spoiled viola. What viola wants viola gets: bling.
You’re so welcome! I must confess I haven’t seen any… bejewelled mutes, yes, but not fine tuners. I’m sure you could stick a small gem on if you were so inclined however!
Luxitunes sell bejeweled fine tuners.
Dear Heather, do you recomend that a violinist use a viola bow for more volume and sweeter tone? Very currious, thank you enjoyed the comparison. Good vidio!😅
I expect a viola bow would be too heavy and might result in a crushed sound but could be fun to try!
I know my reply is a year later, but my opinion (as a violin family repairer etc) is that the heavier viola bow is necessary because viola strings are heavier & harder to get the strings to vibrate than a violin, similarly the cello bow is heavier again, for the same reason, though I have seen someone play viola with a cello bow, but that was an electrified viola though, not normal acoustic playing. Also, it depends on what strings you are using. For example, typically Thomastik Dominant strings are generally easier to play on while Pirastro Obligato are harder to bow.
I agree with Heather that it wouldn't sound the best. I do have a heavier violin bow that is good for powerful playing on my violin but a lighter bow is more suitable for other playing & similarly, for viola, bows vary too & why when buying a bow it is best if able to try a selection of them in a specialist stockist environment.
Dear Heather,
I also started playing violin, then moved over to Viola and got stuck there 🙂. Unlike violin teachers, it's quite hard to find a dedicated viola teacher. So, many of the things you mention in your video are new for me, and I urgently have to try them out! Thanks a lot for this!
The only thing I wondered about is what you say about fine tuners. I'm far away from being a pro, and viola strings are expensive, so I try to use them as long as possible. I played my viola without fine tuners for a while, but strings deteriorated much faster and the wrapping got damaged, compared to the tailpiece with fine tuners before (my upper nut is OK, and I first tune down then carefully up!). So I switched back to a finetuner tailpiece. I thougt about the causes and found it easily to explain. On the upper nut, you have a lot of friction (even when using graphite) because of the string angle. If you tune with pegs, you move quite some mm of the string across the nut. So, not only it's easy to damage the wrapping over time, it also produces a much higher tension in the part between upper nut and peg than you produce when using fine tuners. As strings are constructed on their limit, the string core much easier loosens its strenght. Also, you have in general more movement on the string, which lets the bridge move easier in a wrong angle.
On the other side, when you use fine tuners, you pull the string a much tinier fraction over the bridge, and in a much smaller angle, so friction and forces are much lower. The part between upper nut and peg is barely affected at all. And the tension changes you apply to the string is much less than with peg tuning. I never saw my bridge get in the wrong angle when using fine tuners, but it could happen easier when tuning with pegs.
Also, with peg tuning, you sometimes get an instant pitch change when the string part between upper nut and peg has a different tension than the rest and you start to play, so some instrumentalists press a little with the the finger to equilibrate the string tensions to avoid a loss of tune while playing. I also observed that with too rough peg tuning, the massive short-time change in string tension lets the instrument detune a little in the first minutes. I never had these problems with fine tuners, as these things are not possible to happen then. The string keeps in general the tension it is used to.
And last but not least, my viola sounded much better with a finetuner tailpiece (I use one made from plastic with inbuilt mechanism) than with other tailpieces made from boxwood or ebony. So maybe it depends also on the instrument what it needs. Of course, when changing to fine tuners with shorten the string length a litte, it's necessary to adapt the tailgut.
I find a real benefit from using finetuners is that the pegs get not stuck over time, as they are used frequently. And I also think one can tune faster when only using the pegs, as you instantly hear the right position. But another disadvantage that comes in my mind is that with peg tuning the peg holes get larger and the pegs lose their round shape over time, so you have to let a luthier fix it after a decade or so, which can be pricy.
I hope I made not too many errors, as I'm not a native speaker. Have to check out your other videos now! 🤩
So the advice against using fine tuners has come from several luthiers that I've had the pleasure of working with and so I bow to their expertise in this area 🙂 but in my experience strings keep their quality of sound for much longer when tuning with pegs over fine tuners generally speaking but I also had an instrument once that had a slight buzz on one of the strings and adding fine tuners stopped this which was handy so they can be very useful when required.
@@heatherhawken That's quite interesting, as what I wrote my luthier explained to me when I wanted to change my tailpiece for one without fine tuners. He said if you are a pro you need the maximum sound the instrument can produce and you change your strings often, so you can tune with pegs, but for amateurs there are many other things to master before this comes to a point, and that I can save a lot of money over the time when I stay with fine tuners. As I make my money with engineering, his explanation was quite logic to me, but of course my level of playing experience can't be compared with yours - I change my strings every 2 years or so...🙂
@@heatherhawken I found this so interesting that I wrote a letter to Larsen strings. But it seems they don't know either the exact mechanisms of aging, or don' t want to tell. They wrote that tuning with pegs or strings is only one of the things that influence aging. Others are bride angles (different tension!) and hand sweat, and also playing habits. Seems obvious that if you play a lot forte the strings are much more in movement or at different tension than any tuning maybe can apply to them.
I always wanted to take a bowed instrument . Ive played electic bass and guitar since i was a kid so Im very used heavy strings .
I think that for me that violin may be too small . Cello might be a better choice for me but they very expensive for a intermediate /student level instrument . The Viola seems to be not so small as the violin and not maybe as expensive as the cello maybe thats the one i should try 😊
Absolutely! Of course I am biased… but it is a great middle ground
I think body size has alot to do with what instrument you should play. I'm tiny so even a violin is too big for me so I could never play viola.
Is your shoulder rest the same on both instruments? My set up was identical on both until a few months ago when my teacher suggested I change chinrests on my viola, but the shoulder rest remained the same
No I have a different shoulder rest as my viola shoulder rest would be too big for my violin :-)
@@heatherhawken ah there may be a misunderstanding! I meant my shoulder rest is the same make and model, but sized for the instrument aha but fair point!
@@jakewatson668 Oh I'm so sorry! No I have different brands, not particularly for any reason. Just how it worked out 🙂
There are 5 String Violins & 5 String Violas both tuned CGDAE & the difference lies with in the size
Yes and they can be really handy but they tend to not sound as good as a “normal” violin or viola
@@heatherhawken Adding Pickups would make a difference
@@heatherhawken Having said that, my friend Jing Yang plays Classical Music on the 5 String Viola & she really does a killer job at playing it. YMMV
@@heatherhawken That was way before they updated them
@@heatherhawken Eastman Versions have addressed that issue by improving the design
It is extremely painful to tune and do anything with out any possible issues when I have left my viola out for 5 seconds
I would definitely get your instrument checked out. It shouldn’t go out of tune that quickly…
Geared Pegs would help alot
True… but they can damage the peg box and they’re not great for the strings
@@heatherhawken Wittner Geared Pegs are designed to avoid that issue, they're lighter weight than regular pegs.
@@heatherhawken Wittner Geared Pegs actually save the peg box from wearing out & they're meant to protect the strings. Wittner makes a stringing crank for the geared pegs so that way all you'd have to do is turn the handle when you put on strings.
@@heatherhawken They're not regular Guitar machine heads, but they're Wittner Fine Tune Pegs (they make a stringing crank for them) which are shaped like regular friction pegs but they have gears inside, & they're hollow. They're meant to save the peg box from wearing out. They also protect the strings.
This is confusing, because they’re called planetary tuners, not geared tuners. There’s a big difference between.
Not true about violists being more chill. The most neurotic person i met was a violist.
There will always be exceptions!
Neurosis attacks people in all walks of life. You can’t judge a whole world of players by one person.
@@nickiemcnichols5397 you're right. I think I was just irked by this one super neurotic violist that I knew. I think because she was a failed violinist.
Hello, I'm ex violinist, it's already 4 years that I play viola.
But now i have a problem with my third finger and left hand, and I don't know how to solve that problem, I've already tried a lot but nothing changes.Can I send a video , where i will show and explain my problem.I really need your help! Do you have a Gmail?
Thank you in advance!
Yes of course! Heatherhawken@gmail.com
@@heatherhawken I sent a video to your gmail, thanks!!
Wow you are so beautiful, sweet magic lady! 🥰😇
Thank you!