The Golden Order’s Best-Kept Secret ▶ Elden Ring Lore
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- Опубліковано 24 лис 2024
- Marika could have ties to frenzy, and that could extend all the way into the Golden Order. In this episode, we dive into the ancient themes of frenzy & madness by examining the Ancient Greek play called ‘The Bacchae’. The themes uncover some unsettling truths that may be echoed by Elden Ring.
This video was a collaboration with the channel @square-table-gaming make sure to check out their over 130 lore videos about Elden Ring.
@Banuune helped me with the writing, research & some of the camera shots in this video.
Remember to check out @LastProtagonist videos! His videos focus on the differences between the Japanese & English Translations in the Lore of Elden Ring and other games.
I also mentioned @ZullietheWitch & @quelaag ~ make sure to check out their work as well.
Thank you so much to @VLimit11 for doing the stranded spirit cameo.
Dionysus v/s The Crucified ▶ @untimelyreflections
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Dionysus: Most Influential God of ALL Time | DOCUMENTARY ▶ @GnosticInformant
• Dionysus: Most Influen...
Midra Intro but without the robe ▶ @bonfirevn
• Midra Intro but withou...
The Scadutree Avatar ▶ BonfireVN
• The Scadutree Avatar
“Adult” Miquella ▶ BonfireVN
• "Adult" Miquella
How to Destroy People: Japan's Untouchables ▶ @RareEarthSeries
• How to Destroy People:...
Bloodborne - Testing the "Make Contact" gesture on Winter Lanterns ▶ @awayaway9832
• Bloodborne - Testing t...
Bloodborne Winter Lantern parry ▶ @Royalsage
• Bloodborne Winter Lant...
THE FRENZIED FLAME EXPERIENCE (Elden Ring) ▶ @darkcoolyo
• THE FRENZIED FLAME EXP...
Shadow of the Erdtree Names Explained ▶ @EriksLore
• Shadow of the Erdtree ...
Marika's True Heritage ▶ @EldenKings
• Marika's True Heritage
Awesome HAKA at a wedding reception ▶ @SergTisn
• Awesome HAKA at a wedd...
The Full Story of Midra & The Lord of Frenzied Flame | Elden Ring Lore ▶ @Hawkshaw
• The Full Story of Midr...
Articles Referenced
Paris Olympics Producers Say ‘The Last Supper’ Inspired That Opening Ceremony Scene: ‘Many Have Done It Before’ ▶ Stephanie Kaloi, THEWRAP.
www.thewrap.co...
French Bishops lament 'scenes mocking Christianity' at Olympic Ceremony ▶ Deborah Castellano Lubov
www.vaticannew...
IOC Sends Thousands of DMCA Notices to Deter ‘Olympics’ Piracy ▶ Ernesto Van der Sar
torrentfreak.c...
French police investigating abuse targeting Olympic opening ceremony DJ over ‘Last Supper’ tableau ▶ JOHN LEICESTER AND JOCELYN NOVECK
apnews.com/art...
Zlofsky2nd X Post
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Wikipedia
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This was so much fun to work on and it came out great. Needs more views!
your involvement was unexpected but great to hear u in a more speculative video. #STG
Wow you're here? Noice love this
She summoned that Elden Beast and realized she made a mistake and immortality and being an eternal God sucked. She wasn't completely insane, she just wanted to die.
42:01 It just occurred to me that the spear in Marika's womb may be the physical manifestation of the curse that hornsent Grandam had cast on Marika and her children.
That’s so interesting. Here I was thinking about the bloodborne frenzy, but THIS is interesting.
I was reading an scientific study/article about albinos in ancient Mediterranean history, and there’s so much stuff that stands out as being the inspiration for Albinaurics and possibly even Miquella, but here’s a part I think you might find interesting:
“In Greco-Roman literature, the location of the albino tribes mentioned in Isigonus, Pliny, Aulus Gellius, and Solinus, in the remote land of Albania (near modern Chechnya) may be related to the prevalence of the cult of the moon there. Strabo refers to the cult of Selene among the Albanians in which a human sacrifice was performed annually. The victim was usually one who wandered the woods in a state of possession. Such a person would be arrested by the priest, looked after for a year, and then sacrificed by stabbing with a lance. Divinations were made on the basis of how his body fell to the ground.”
The slight smirk on Nanaya's face in the painting makes me think she was the instigator here. Even if she didnt realize it like how Hyetta didnt understand at first either
One of my homies brought that up right before the video got published. I didn’t have time to include it.
Not to mention Shabriri Also has a smirk on his face while conducting the actions of slander. And birthing of the frenzy flame through its consequence
@@sk8legendzeven Hyetta when you meet her after death is “smirking”
I'm surprised you didn't make a big deal about Dionysus being the god of wine and thus grapes. lol.
I'm glad that there is someone who doesn't immediately write off the 3 fingers as some entirely separate entity or vassal and actually tries to connect them back to Metyr and the Greater will.
Exactly, it’s so blatantly clear, for gods sake they’re fingers that add up to five, which cicueda says is a sign of holiness
What was Manus Sellus? A hand. Not fingers. But metyr is the mother of all finger creepers and two fingers. I wonder why she's not connected to the three fingers?
@@Jadizi Ranni refers to the fingers in Manus Celes as her two fingers and I see no reason for her to lie about that. However it did appear that her two fingers were bigger and even healthier than the other more aged two fingers we find elsewhere and the underground chamber beneath the Cathedral is reminiscent of where we find Metyr birthing fingers so maybe her fingers were also the mother of all the finger creepers we find at Rannis manor? Also bit of a reach but I'm now wondering if the name 3 sisters could somehow relate to there being 3 different finger areas or the possibility that there is more finger mothers?
@@goblingrease5720 I agree with you. It just seems like at some point there was a whole hand somewhere That embody all aspects not just chaos or order.
@@Jadizi Oh definitely think there was, the two fingers represent order and the three fingers represent chaos so I think that at some point they formed a full hand which would have been a representation of the one great that Hyetta talks about.
Great collab, Banger video!
Appreciate it!!
Would like to add how Sufi poetry relates to frenzy. Sufi poets, all about non-duality, "The One Great" and burning away untruth/suffering, use words like wine, madness, frenzy, etc. all the time. Dionysus relates heavily to the ecstatic sufis, who were not always jiving with dogmatic islam through the ages. Mix that with how the more middle-eastern and Asian characters seem to relate (the dancer and Yura), I feel you are onto something.
The connections of the Shaman village flowers are totally a thing, and same with the abyssal serpent and abyssal woods.
I don't think the three fingers were created, I think they were there from the very beginning which is why the Fingerprint Shield is reminiscent of the oldest archaeological findings in those caves in France.
I think that all forms of Fire come from the One Great force, and as you said they are all suppressed versions. I think Marika (or Radagon) is mad trying to stop convergence, and stay in causality. Miquella is trying to totally transcend causality. Someone made a video about how the guidance of grace totally gets us to go to Ranni and her questline and how much of the game is locked behind her questline. When you do Ranni's ending Marika's head is gently put back, she vanishes into gold dust (where as other endings just dust), and it is very beautiful.
Marika doesn't want the Frenzied ending, and want's us to continue with the freedom of the stars, which is most likely where her Numen self came from. To be honest I see this as connecting to our real world quest for the stars and freedom, (Marika/America) and how it is kind of just another distraction away from total unity which cultures of sufism, buddhism, yoga etc. offer. However, ironically, true madness is this resistance to unity. Radagon's pride, dogma and control is madness, Miquellas savior utopian dream is madness, Marika's reactive behaviour, shattering and leading us to repair the elden ring, and even leading us to the age of stars possibly is madness. Her wanting her kids to be sacrificed or killed by us is madness. Her revenge is madness. Rykards desire to eat the gods is crazy. Radhans battle thirst, Ranni's black knife plot, I think even Godwyn was so devoted to the order that he willingly sacrificed himself which is why he looks so chill in the painting, and that is crazy. Malenia's attachment to miquella.... it is true they are all mad in some way. But I think that is because the Greater Will is.
This comes from too many random connections I have seen in the lore to the real-world, and it is hard to summarize here lol.
This is blasphemy! This is Madness! THIS IS MOXIE!
I was really on board with this video as it started, but the more it went on the more it lost me. There is essentially nothing linking Radagon to Frenzy, for one thing. Golden Order Fundamentalism is distinct from the faith of the Golden Order in that it's all about scholarship and study of the workings of the universe, not blind zealotry or militant extremism. When adherents to the Golden Order started to become zealots after the Shattering, they abandoned or betrayed the teachings of people like Goldmask or, indeed, Radagon, since he was locked away in the Erdtree.
It's also very debatable whether or not the Golden Order knew anything of what happened in the Abyssal Woods, or what happened in regards to Shabriri and the Merchants.
I think you have the right concept here, but some ideas seem like they're reaching too much, especially when it comes to constructing narratives of what specific characters were motivated by or what they did.
Bruh, did Moxie snipe Vaati with another madness video on the same day!?
😅😅😅😅😅 unfortunately
@@MoxieWatts lol I love vaati but your video is objectively better. Thank you for so much quality long form content.
I die laughing whenever I hear that dude say “the mad…TAint” 😂
Insane video production quality. I can't comprehend how many hundreds of hours were spent on it. Why does it only have 5k views? It deserves like 500k. The UA-cam algorithms must be broken
Thank you! I love your videos btw!!
I think there's an easily overlooked origin for the Frenzy Flame's infection of Marika. The Flame touches those who go through ego-shattering trauma. Marika witnessed the slaughter of her entire people at Shaman Village, their subsquent reanimation as horrific monsters, and if some theories are correct she herself survived the jarring process. That alone would be enough to drive any being mad. To transform the grace of gold into a screaming yellow flame that desired to burn everything down to the ground to end the pain.
ayyy, my bois at the Square Table! Give them some love if you don't know about them, Zac's voice is very pleasant, the art is amazing, and its lots of Elden Lore!
You're the best! Thank you homie
@@MoxieWatts No, YOU’RE breathtaking! 🤣❤️👍
That stone altar in the ruins unte can either be just a stone sword or transform your existing stone sword to one of light or darkness.
Ah i see i didn’t know that. Tysm for the insight man. I really thought lol.
1 item i was puzzled by and then forgot, then made total sense on a new run, while opening more questions regarding Marika and Frenzy: Shield of the Guilty!
Omg I just reread that item and you got me over here puzzled asf :THONKERS:
I like the comment "We're guided by Grace alone (the will of Marika)"
Maybe it's more than just her will? You'll notice the closer you get to burning the Erdtree, the more bright and radiant the Roundtable Hold looks. In the time between Melina serving as kindling and the Rune of Death being unbound.
Once that occurs though, it's almost as if Radagon says "Alright, enough." Then, once the Erdtree is breached, the Humanity-esque grace in the middle of the Hold falls quiet and dim. Once vibrant colors turn to depressing shade.
MOX AND STG DIDNT KNOW MY DAY WAS STARTING PERFECT BUT OK ❤❤❤❤😭
Such a hype collab ❤❤❤
@@MoxieWatts I love it and I really think you knocked it out of the park Marikas lineage being the source of frenzy makes entirely too much sense because of this video 🙃🙃🙃
Such a huge miss on their end to not include Godwyn in the dlc
Another heater! I really like how deep you get into the history and how you add your own fun twists and drawings to the mix.
One thing I had previously been thinking of was connecting maenads to the old maypole festivals considering the Dominula ladies wear skins and dance into a frenzy.
One other angle to consider is how Hornsent society represents cynical and ascetical schools of thought as dominant. A Dionysian cult amid those two could spark quite a firestorm. This also gives the inquisitors a reason to exist, which ties us back to Spain, where the red dancer is clearly from, given her outfit is a dead ringer for flamenco.
Ah nan that’s a good point. I think queelag had mentioned the maypole fests before but idk why I never thought of the flamenco dancers. Like it’s so obvious in hindsight lol.
Wow I haven’t heard this take before, and I love it. Great video!
I did not expect this collaboration and I am THOROUGHLY pleasantly surprised. Both channels already have my attention, my admiration for continuing great effort and quality, and will continue to have my sub! Thank you both, both channels. Incredible work on both.
Thank you so much. That’s so sweet. I love STG, been a longtime sub over there. I’m happy he was willing to work with me.
*!! MADNESS !!*
Always happy to be early for a Moxie vid
You're the best!
This was a great video, may chaos take the world
I just started the video but that one line about Miquella's blood line being "mired in madness" immediately made me realize when I first heard it that there was a bigger connection between Marika, madness, and the 3 fingers. Excited to watch the whole thing !
yes exactly!
You have hooked into a piece with the claws at the recesses of your mind. Burdened with the knowledge that this game CAN BE explained. I salute
Banger vid Mox and STG. I love the connection to Dionysus! ER being a rabbit hole to learn about real-world history and mythology is one of my favorite aspects of the game.
Keep the flame of frenzy alive!
I just want to point out that Shabriri's period must have happened within Marika's Golden Order, so the Shadow Realm was already sealed, which makes what happened in Midra's Manse an older event in the timeline. Also Midra and Nanaya's child could be effectively Marika, or at least they raised her and taugh her things, which led her to madness down the line. There's a relationship with forbidden knowledge and madness. Considering the hornsent spiritted away the shamans, perhaps she ran away and found a safe haven there. My point being Marika and madness are related, must definitvely, and the game really makes an effort to show there's someone try to hide it, for one reason, and there are finger ruins beside the shaman village and midra's manse. And there is evidence that Midra's Manse and Hornsent culture were in harmony for a time, til all fell apart. Great video, Mox
Hey thank you! Yeah Elden Kings theory makes total sense, the only thing that I cant rectify is that she’s a shaman. So you said that the shadow realm was sealed when marinas golden order came about. I’m real curious, what led you to that conclusion? I’m pretty confused about the timeline.
I loved this collaboration. Got great synergy.
55:31 SKIBIDI TREE????
I refuse to call it anything otherwise.
I love how you do collabs, they seem fun. I'm particularly fascinated by the connection on the singing fire stuff, I'm going to have to stew on that. Can I just say that I'm so glad someone is attempting to really connect the Abyssal Woods to the greater narrative because the inclusion of it in the DLC should really, in my opinion, indicate that it was a crucial element of the story. Alas, there is but one remaining mystery of the Abyssal Woods: how Miyazaki was convinced to not make it a legit frenzy swamp like the lake of rot???
Don’t say it too loud. He might be listening. Next time the frenzy swamp will be lava.
But thank you!! Yeah I’m really interested in how it could be connected
I feel like there is a connection with finger ruins and madness since there are three finger ruins that shape fingerprints on the map (one of them is hidden underground so fits with the theme that frenzy is sealed and hidden)
This was great. I think probing the lore of elden ring from the Nietzsche angle really helps to understand what the heck is going on.
I think the greater will represents something like Nietzsche’s “will to power” for one. It’s a force of nature that gets anthropomorphized from a religious perspective
When you mentioned Godwyn being killed by his own people/mother it made me think of the most important lore item in the DLC, festive grease.
Festive grease mimics the celebrant effect and makes runes from doing damage(drawing blood) presumably. The DLC is filled with rituals of sacrifice and it usually seems to be to release runes. For instance, the burning boats in the black keep are being burned to release gold/runes/grace.
The celebrant flowers are all around the Shaman(shrine maiden in Japanese) village, linking the celebrants to Marika. So it seems like Markia knows well how to sacrifice blood/humans/gods to produce golden runes. This practice seems to show Messmer's crusade and the sacrifice of Godwyn in a similar light.
Great video! Love the collab!
Now that I've had a moment to chew on it, I'm really digging this Dionysus link. One thought, since he supposedly came up with wine, could it be that whomever is the Dionysus character is in Elden Ring also came up with the ability to make the flasks of crimson tears and the like?
Also, it's unfortunate that sleep is still underdeveloped in the lore. It seemed like sleep was being setup to be an antagonist to frenzy but that was not really developed on much in the DLC. Maybe sleep is just an offshoot of frenzy, like how many pass out when drunk.
Thiollier seems to imply a bit of this with his poisons, potions and the like.
Oh I like that. That’s interesting.
I react to the word "Godwyn" like a dog to the word "treat".
Ung, I've always wanted to try to ignore the frenzied flame narratively but Moxie, you've got me hooked!
I've been going through the wiki article on the Dionysiaca. A book about Dionysis's travels into India and back again(sounds a lot like Alexander the great if you ask me).
I know these are random but all of the talk about grapes is just amazing to me, also the army of women. (I also caught a video by the Gnostic Informant who mentioned an island of women who worshiped Dionysis who would dismember and eat any male children that they had. Obviously they would have to send women off of the island to find men to breed with but they never brought the men back with them. Many accounts of Amazons described them as man eating so maybe there is a link there.)
From wiki:
"Book 17 - Dionysus travels through the east and is entertained by a shepherd, Brongus, in a country fashion. In thanks for his hospitality, Dionysus gives him some wine and teaches him how to grow and harvest the vine. Astraeis informs Orontes, son-in-law of the Indian king Deriades, of the defeat of the Indian army and the ruse of the waters turned into wine. Orontes is furious and harangues his troops not to fear the effeminate Dionysus and his army of women. The Indians charge in and at first seem to win, but Dionysus screams like nine thousand men and detains them. Orontes and Dionysus engage in single combat: a tap of a vine cluster on Orontes' chest is enough to split his armour. Orontes plunges his sword into his own belly and throws himself into the river nearby, giving it his name (Orontes river). The Bacchic troops massacre the Indians. Astraeis flees."
"Book 18 - Dionysus arrives in Assyria, where the king Staphylus ("Cluster of grapes"), his wife Methe ("Drunkenness) and his son Botrys ("Grapes") entertain him in their marvelous palace in a drunken celebration. During his night with them he dreams that the wild king Lycurgus attacks him like a lion attacks a deer. The next morning Staphylus gives Dionysus splendid presents and encourages him to fight. While Dionysus is busy filling Assyria with his vine, Staphylus suddenly dies and his palace is filled with mourning voices. Dionysus returns to the palace only to find his friend dead. "
I had to come back and say amazing work since I forgot to in my last comment. This video made me realize Marika could have tried to use the frenzied flame the same way the witch of Izalith did, to try and reignite her age. But it ends up giving birth to demons as a bed of chaos.
There is an Item that describes the erdtree being more chaotic and like life in its primordial form. This is exactly the description for the bed of chaos, and to top it off, as you beat the boss, it becomes more ephemeral/ less physical.
The bed of chaos theme runs further with the little bugs and the fly people. They slowly transformed into flies, and certain flying creatures, like moths, are drawn to light. The fly village rite below bonny village, with a few green dragon flies around. But below that is the abyssal woods with the flames of madness. To get there, you yourself have to go through Darklight Catacombs to reach the abyssal woods. I believe this symbolizes the fly people finding a light in the darkness, drawn to it, without really knowing why.
The erdtree was said to be a fleeting thing like life itself, and if Marika was golden firefly person, she may have been drawn to the madness and became the bed of chaos. Her rune could very well be her head as the sun, and the dark part her body.
This is just madness.
On the subject of Greek mythology: The Shaman where Dryad. The hornsent exsperement was based on (tree) grafting divinity on to them.
madness always had to have something to do with gold cause of the color similarity. there’s a good video about marika being related to midra.
Which one? I’m interested. 😊
@@MoxieWatts video is called marika’s heritage by elden kings on yt
I always speculated that Godwyn wanted to be sacrificed because of the Age of Duskborn ending. Each of Marika's children betrayed her in some way. I believe that Godwyn knew what was going to happen and called Fia to the Lands Between. But, I'm rambling, I find it interesting that you mention a duality to the Frenzy Flame and connect it to the dancers that are perhaps a healthier frenzy than the creation of the Three Fingers. The overall metaphor for for The Lands Between seems to be that they reflect Marika's mental state, so it makes since that the madness of Frenzy would show up everywhere Marika lost control, including Radagon. I don't think Marika considered any of her children actual threats, but if Radagon was the part of herself that was listening to the Frenzy Flame, she would be afraid of that. I never thought that Marika was afraid of Death like so many others do. I think that removing Destined Death from the Order was a thought out strategy, not a move of desperation. Marika is smart, but people seem to throw that out whenever they think that Marika wanted to remove Death because she was afraid of it. Her real enemy is madness, though. Everything she is doing is to prevent the madness inside her from taking over. That does make sense.
I know this was a lot of stream of consciousness, rambling, but piecing together all the moving parts of Elden Ring's story makes you sound crazy yourself, and I'm still building out the theory as I go.
Ah i really like the way you explained destined death. I would love to hear more thoughts on this because I have always heard he same- Marika hates/is scared of death (supposedly). I can’t help but continuously wonder what her motivation was to seal it.
@@MoxieWatts I think that sealing Destined Death was political, and I think she did it for control. All Death is through the Erdtree when we reach The Lands Between, Marika herself even had us brought back to life at the beginning of the game. She probably saw at some point that it was a mistake to seal Destined Death, but for a long time she superseded it.
Each of Marika's children was cursed by some fault of Marika, except Godwyn, Before Death was reintroduced into the Lands Between. Then he too was cursed once the power was back. He also befriended Fortissax, an ancient Dragon with ties to Farum Azula.
I really do think that Marika put the idea of stealing Destined Death in Ranni's head, and I think Godwyn would have sacrificed himself if he knew of the sacrifices needed to become a god. I put that together with one of the Tarnished being a Deathbed Companion that could rebirth his soul in another state. Something Marika could know like she knew the player character was maidenless. I believe that Godwyn is the god of the Duskborn ending, and that Marika set up the possibility of it as an acceptable path forward.
I'm not contesting that your conclusion is correct, but saying that the torch isn't from a child, because of it's size when our character holds it, is like saying that Radahn is the same size as the player character, because his armor fits us. Very good video.
I agree having made a post on Reddit like months ago along with commenting on other youTubers videos; that Nanaya possibly looks to still have a subtle pregnancy bump. Though to me personally I’d like to think it resembles a more postpartum physique. But who can say for sure. I’m just glad to find someone else is saying it besides me😅. And I also agree the torch is not Midra’s spine nor Nanaya’s baby, idk why people think that as common sense can easily rule that out. As you said he still has his spine, it’s larger than a baby’s, and was said to be for a previous failed lord of frenzied flame.
And overall this video was great.
Thank you! Yes! thank you also for the validation! Everyone's analysis on the torch was driving me insane
Okay, this is probably insane and reading too much into it but hear me out.
What if Midra and Marika were husband and wife at some point? Or at least worked together. We know the naming convention of Marika's children, seemingly taking on the first letter of the parent. What if Midra is the father of Messmer and Melina? Frenzy is made up of two different concepts that Marika managed to seperate. One is Messmer's flame, calming, deep dark red. And the flame of death, the Gloam colored flame that can melt things away. When Marika sealed Destined Death, the one aspect of the flame is also locked away.
I did toss around this idea but I’ll ultimately scrapped it. Cause my thought was that Nanaya and Midra were essentially married and that Marika seduced Midra. I’m not sure. But I do like how you tied the naming conventions with Midra. It’s smart.
You mention how the sore and scar seals look like shabriri grapes but I think it's also worth mentioning how the mobs afflicted with madness often have fiery eyes while mobs who have golden eyes are flush with runes. There seems to be a opposition between frenzy and runes themselves.
Call it a hunch but I think that the question of, "what are runes exactly?" is still an important narrative segment that has not been fleshed out by the community.
You might appreciate nameless singer’s yggdrasil Reddit post from like two years ago. She elaborates on this idea in a way i think you would appreciate.
@@MoxieWatts I'll check it out! I was chatting with Singer a few days ago. =)
I used to be a huge zelda fan before totk and i always listened to you before bed. i got sick of zelda and stopped watching you. a few months ago, i got elden ring and looked up the lore because i was so confused and you came up. ur awesome
Something from Egyptian mythology that you might find relevant to the frenzy flame. It is a story of a conflict between Set and Horus where Set tears out Horus's eyes. Horus's eyes were known to be powerful artifacts and gods in their own right. The Wadjet, was known as the eye of Horus after it was first known as the eye of Ra. She was a serpent with feathered winds and one time was transformed into the lion headed god Sekhmet, who was once tasked with culling humanity. Drunk on blood she almost killed all of humanity until she was distracted by a lake a of beer that had been colored red to look like blood. Wild stuff, I know but also strangely familiar.
From Wikipedia:
"In "The Contendings of Horus and Set", a text from the late New Kingdom that relates the conflict as a short narrative, Set tears out both of Horus's eyes and buries them, and the next morning they grow into lotuses. Here it is the goddess Hathor who restores Horus's eyes, by anointing them with the milk of a gazelle. In Papyrus Jumilhac, a mythological text from early in the Ptolemaic Period (332-30 BC), Horus's mother Isis waters the buried pair of eyes, causing them to grow into the first grape vines."
This is all very interesting but I'm still of the mind that godwyn was in on his own assassination and helped ranni do it. But the ideas on nanaya I really like
I like the idea of godwyn being in on it. I’m open to all sorts of ways of looking at it because we have so little information.
@@MoxieWatts there's some new information in the dlc items combined with the fact that he can cast death sorceries if you attack fia near him, that imply he's still aware and has a will, my mentality is that I feel like as the eldest of Marika and Godfrey he'd have seen her treatment of mogh and morgott, and her treatment of others, I think he wanted to work with ranni to become the prince of death and help undermine her order.
@@agni-kai132 ah I love that so much
@@agni-kai132 whaddya think of the whole cadaver surrogate thing
Melina is almost certainly burned and bodiless because Maliketh “defeated” her, assuming she’s the GEQ. If she’d been killed by her brother, seems like that would be in there somewhere.
yo the way Nanaya is sitting, that could be her spine, with the warmth of some champion still lit atop. If it happens to be similar to deathbed companions, then it could be to give birth to a champion who has died
Amazing video!
The Gloam Eyed Queen was also chosen by the two fingers as an Empyrean.
If you get grabbed by the elden beast,it "crucifies"you,just like Marika
Shaman village the kindness of gold without order.Is chaos but not intended to be.
It really seems like Miquella, with his unalloyed golden needles, connection to sleep and his great rune's ability to resist compelling enchantment was explicitly and consistently opposed to the flame of chaos.
Maybe that's what his goal has been this whole time, to make a new real that does not return to Chaos like Marika's. Reminds me of the Hellenites resistance to allowing Dionysus into the Hellenistic pantheon.
Yea they really did not want Dionysius in the pantheon. To me it feels like he is fighting against what is inevitable. Like if he was assisted with frenzy and he didn’t want to be, then he would do everything to avoid it.
In such a land (any land, really), what could indicate madness or demonstrate frenzy more than bringing back THE ubiquitous fear ALL life would HAVE to contend with, but somehow, impossibly was removed from Reality itself some"where" in the past?
Restoring.
Death.
To.
The.
World.
Two points of good news, though:
1.) If death is a destined event applying to any and all "life", having the reality of death in your lands is the only way to ACCEPT it will occur, overcome that otherwise all encompassing fear, and get busy living,
And, as the next logical link in the chain of thought, in that basic A = A sort of way...
2.) the presence/reality of death DOES NOT negate or cancel out "life" - they CO-exist.
So, you know, I guess the question then becomes, are life and death PART of each other? Is one a beginning, the other an ending? Are life and death different points in a larger, overall process - is that process "living" or "dying" - or, does our understanding of such concepts get thrown out the window since we cannot yet/until we are CAPABLE of seeing the, uh, bigger-er picture?
Grapes for thought, as it were.
With the three fingers being under the capital Merika must of had an intimate knowledge of what it was. Possibly were her own that had a more divine connection. Could it have through time changed due to the evil of the golden order into a frenzied envoy. Becoming what it is today.
Oh wow new favorite channel
Note to self: after work go check the emblem on the back of the nox swordstresses cloaks to see if it looks like cherishing fingers, I thought it was a starfish until 13:25
Who is this woman and how come she never miss?
I love this community
Apparently Dionysis was also closely linked with Osiris.
From wikipedia.
Dionysus was often identified with Osiris. Stories of the dismemberment of Osiris and the re-assembly and resurrection by Isis closely parallel those of the Orphic Dionysus and Demeter. According to Diodorus Siculus, as early as the fifth century BC, the two gods had been syncretized as a single deity known as Dionysus-Osiris. The most notable record of this belief is found in Herodotus' 'Histories'. Plutarch also described his belief that Osiris and Dionysus were identical, stating that anyone familiar with the secret rituals associated with both gods would recognize obvious parallels, and that their dismemberment myths and associated public symbols are enough additional evidence that they are the same god worshiped by two different cultures.
Serapis and Hades were also often linked to Dionysis.
Y’know whats funny, i actually came across this while researching for the Rome video,
@@MoxieWatts Lol. All things yearn eternally to converge. XD
So Godwyn is Pentheus? Lit. =)
Precisely
Hey, I just watched this! Very cool. I did not make it all the way through Elden Ring unfortunately (it came out during a weird time in my life and I just never revisited it after that), so I'm not super familiar with all the lore. But I have played and beaten all three Dark Souls games (and Gael and The Nameless King etc etc etc). Let me know if you ever want to collaborate on a video exploring the philosophical ideas of DS, assuming you're also about that life. Very cool video, nonetheless! Cheers.
we're sooooo back
Yall got any of them unalloyed gold needles around? Been lore diving and got hugged by the 3 fingers, now theyre saying "youre crazy" and trying to put me in a dress down @ the funny farm lol. Stay safe yall
Also the Two Fingers in the Roundtable Hold….
They have a thumb hole😢
What she said: im moxie
What i herd: im on oxy 😅.
It's cleat he was in impaled was to tame frenzy flame with holy damage in a sense Midra I think was pierced out of mercy... Very painfull one maybe by miquella or Messner for unknown reasons as for what he touched I think it was the shabriri himself.
My suggestion, compare Elden Ring's base game to Persona 3 (Reload) and the DLC to persona 5R (especially Miquella's story) and everybody will understand what's going on.
Actually, Shin Megami Tensei 3 is also pretty spot on. Which, deals with everything in 1 package.
Wait, wait, am I dreaming? Is this Elden Ring video citing The Nietzsche Podcast?
THE The Nietzsche Podcast? 😭
Yes! I love this podcast and I actually got permission from essentialsalts to use some of his recordings.
Doesnt Gideon insinuate that Marika shattered the Elden Ring because Miquella was abducted by Mohg?
//So. The Haligtree, now but a husk... I heard speculation Miquella embedded himself in the Haligtree, but before he could finish, someone cut the tree open and absconded with his infant form. Indeed, it seems those words held weight. How vexing. That the All-knowing didn't have the full story... Perhaps the Queen's sorrow was justified... Ah, my apologies. Lost myself, for a moment there.//
This was so beautiful! You did a fantastic job! everyone who worked on this you all did so amazing! I loved this theory and it explains a lot of the interconnected stuff that feels weird or like something is missing. This helps explain it well. Thank you!
After finishing and thinking on the video I find it interesting in just how much elden ring represents our own world and life. Depression and other forms of mental Illness is madness. We wonder if our god still remains with those here who claim to receive messages from this ‘greater will’ or God but only through suffering and love being combined to create madness is the only true way to divinity it seems. At least here. How is this and different from our world. And the other religions and cultures here. The cosmos seems to be filled with God like power beyond our comprehension and we see other planets with some potentially having life, had life, or seem like they have succumbed to the madness. Like the planets in deep space that are one giant volcano. Yet… what is deep within our world? A hot melting pot of life perhaps? A core we cannot reach due to the heat and the melting of all things? Like a star. A god that is that deep energy released. But when a God dies… they are left a void… what happens to us when we are dead inside or deeply messed up or traumatized? We are left with a void or we become hollow. Like a void. Like a black hole? Once a bright star devoid of its light from death. Elden ring is trying to tell us all a much much deeper story called our own life. Look at everything from the cosmos to religion to the very nature of our planet and us as creatures of knowledge of good and evil. Madness… what if the very definition of evil is madness? A yin and yang. Opposites but within them are their own very opposites. As humans we are capable of both good and evil. Our entire world and universe is filled with this concept being told over and over again. Elden ring is the most modern take on a story to represent our own world… so it goes into question. What do we do with such knowledge or understanding and thoughts? What our tarnished does. We fight for what we believe in is right and we do our best through our suffering to deliver love unconditionally. Love is the very opposite to madness(destruction) yet within madness is a love too. And within love is a madness. For we see people love in maddening ways. Ways that would not make logical sense. Logic is the very concept of order. Making sense of the chaotic energies and life. But love is unconditional and you add order to love you get slow destruction and the spread of madness. Perhaps we are meant to accept a fundamental of all aspects of life like a crucible. That is where we are from. The very beginning of energy itself. We too are children of the greater will. Is that not divine? Is that not sublime? Dont take life too seriously but also remember that this existence itself is a madness. So do not succumb to the madness. Let it flow through you as it is a part of you and so is love and logic and everything else. We are a crucible in our own right as humans. This is why life is so chaotic yet orderly. Ha. Life itself is just a big melting pot at the end of the day. So all that’s left is the sense of free will with yourself. You still have the choice to make at the end no matter what influences you the choice is yours. Choice is our only true will of our own. Everything else is out of our control. So make the best choices you can and ensure you learn and educate yourself on everything you can. We only have this one life so make it one filled with love and good. For chaos is always around the corner.
I'm of the opinion that GRRM and Miyazaki envisioned Marika as an alchemical Eve, seduced by a serpent to bring sin and death into the world. Everything Marika does from that point forward seems to be an effort to thwart that original sin and reverse the finality of death from the land. It’s my speculation that, like Edgar the Revenger, Godwyn’s death (like Baldr in Norse mythology) fundamentally seals the fate of this middle land between life and death.
Shabriri could be the child of Nanaya and Midra
Every character who talks about Marika said that she values struggle and growth which comes from it. Both struggle and growth are despised by Hyetta and Shabriri, the main spokesmen for the Frenzied Flame.
What are you talking about?
What do you mean? Irena literally died & Shabriri had his eyes gouged out
I’m genuinely curious what you’re on about?? I went back through the voice lines because I don’t know what you’re talking about.
So
Idk if you mentioned it, but like….
Where are Godwyn’s 2 Fingers??
Also have you heard Scum Mage Infa’s theory Godwyn is a Lamprey & “golden mimic tear” theory?
Yoo! lookup the god Sabazios! A god of the Phrygians whom the Greeks saw as a combination of Dionysus and Zeus. A symbol of his is a hand holding out three fingers! =D
Horseman and sky daddy
missed u so much!
i came to the wildest conclusion involving that Clam cradling the back of Godwyn's head, why Crucible Knight Siluria stands in front of dead tree stump facing East, and why the ant*wasp*dragonfly insects hover in specific formations in certain locations - the details are vast. yet a Mothertree endures.
let me know if you're interested! 🐚💦🐝🌱🌻
I’m so interested in whatever you’re getting at. Yo hmu by either commenting back or on discord. My tag is just moxiewatts ❤
Ok this sounds like divine madness, would love to see more. MAKE A VIDEO!!
hey @@MoxieWatts i stumbled upon a Buckwild link, where the Worms and Horns intercept plus how it all connects to the Deep Root Depth.
This is too big and i would love for you to hear me out, happy to hand over anything i found - and it's a LOT.
exactly 1h OMGGGG!!
anyone else sorta lose their taste for this video when it started going down the olympics opening ceremony hole
like... going with the conservative version of the story was a choice.
at least people know what propaganda you prefer.
Anyone else get strong Logarius vibes from Jori?
um youtube??? no notification for this???? how could you
wassup kabobba?!
essentialsalts? welcome surprise
the golden light and life worshiped is the primeval current and the true form of chaos but it is ordered chaos as while it is everything without order, there is universal order as well in the vein of that old joke of in a world of no rules, you can at least know that there is the rule there is no rules. beyond that the abyss is the greater will which makes marika reviling it so ironic as it is the all consuming darkness that gives defenition to the light of the primeval current/the all great and thus grants order as it devours life unending and thusly also would devour the immortal inhabitants of the lands between if granted a chance.
its this base fact that the worshiped gold and life of the golden order is chaotic order and the reviled darkness and the abyss is the greater will and god worshiped by the golden order followers and is orderly chaos allowing for the creation of all things and deliniation and thus granting order but still being chaos itself as well devouring all things without care or deliniation for what it devours. the funny truth that ignoring the bad and only focusing on the good only makes the bad just as extreme as you neglect it to raise up the good and that by making such a crazy and chaoticly contradicting order, marika was the one who created the perfect conditions to allow the frenzied flame to take root in a world created by the life seperated from the primeval current as the all consuming abyss devoured the primeval current to the best of its ability and thus should have made returning life to the form of the all great near imopossible as it should have held it in equilibrium with its infiinite desire to consume and the all greats infinite overflowing life.
Almost like a necessary force that will come about no matter what is done. Like…this is what is meant to be. What are your thoughts on destined death? Now I’m curious.
@@MoxieWatts destined death is only half of the true flame of death like the putrescent ghostflame with the ghostflame being the side that burns the body away and the connections the spirit has to the physical completely while also being powered by the intelligent spirit and taking on a deep royal blue while on the other hand destined death is the beastial side of the flames of true death and violently burns away the spirit and all connections ones body has to the spirit being powered by the bodies bestial vitality and faith with its bright crimson red flames and like we see in the gloam eyed queens blade and her name, the 2 flames once were combine in a spiral to create at the center, what the grave violet shows us was once a vivid violet flame also like the violet jewel worn by the godskins and what i presume the gloam eyed queens eyes looked like as while many go on and on that gloam has no color, gloam is another word for twighlight when the red sunset meets the blue night sky and you get the purple violet in the middle. Its because of this that i believe renalla and relanna were the daughters or at least descendants of the gloam eyed queen along with the original astrologers of raugh being her people or who she herself descended from at least due to the astrologers close relation of the sun and moon/ flame of day and cold of the night.
@@MoxieWatts I also have plenty more in general about the nature of the divine birds and origins of the serpent hunter spear/meteoric ore blade and the white light of the sun they create thats able to kill the dark serpents of the abyss or atleast reduce their size and strength considerably.
This story is about a crazy woman who was given power. Nothing else
As I was watching this, I got to thinking, so, you LOVE bat-s%#@ theories, here comes the Queen Mother of them! Tin-Foil Hat better be duct-taped on your head, LOL! The last part of this video, lined up with a INSANE theory of mine, that I shared with another Elden Ring UA-camr, Emerald Gecko, before the DLC dropped, we were theorizing what would Miquella become, what would he do, if he actually SUCCEEDED to become a God, and his motives! Remember when Miquella would try to help the buried alive Merchants, underneath Leyndell, he was VERY knowledgeable about the Frenzied Flame, it's power, and the possible coming, if someone was strong enough, to become the Lord of Frenzied Flame! We theorized on ways that Miquella could go mad himself, learning we killed his twin sister, etc.! The DLC dropped, and we were pretty much RIGHT, about WHAT Miquella actually was, and his outright EVIL actions, starting even before the Shattering War! The ways he manipulated his OWN "beloved" family, what he did to Radahn, Mohg, and even his own TWIN SISTER, sent her to Calied, to "fetch" Radahn, I bet he wanted NO part in being Miquella's Consort, so, Malenia goes to Calied, NUKES the entire country, and Radahn, so HE can get WHO he wants! His next actions against Mohg, were just as DISGUSTING, or, in some respects, WORSE! After WE defeat Mohg, a Miquella follower, just STEALS his body! Deniying the dignity of a proper funeral and rest that Mohg ACTUALLY deserved! Sorry, this is a bit rambly, but, it's how my brain works, lol! Here's the aligning part, I thought that Miquella, towards, or AT the Final Battle, Phase change, or whatever, he'd actually becomes the Lord of Chaos Himself! He may not have killed people with is OWN hands, but, his TERRIFYING power to control people, no matter how strong they THOUGHT they were, is MORE than enough, to pull ALL of this off! Miquella didn't pick ALL of the Flame of Frenzy, he didn't need to! Once he threw away his HEART, his LOVE, Saint Trina, I was like:' OH S%#@!' When Sir Ansbach said:' Miquella, is a MONSTER!' I thought, "You have NO idea!' So, I wasn't the only one who thought poor Messmer, had, at lease, a PART of the Flame of Frenzy, because of the War, he REALLY didn't want, deep down, and afterwards, Marika ABANDONED him, no wonder he went mad as well! Also, I think you're RIGHT, about seeing part of the Frenzied Flame, in Radahn! He was turned into a puppetted ZOMBIE! Lord Mohg's soul was just FORSAKEN, thrown away, because Miquella no longer needed him, after he got what he wanted, a body to stuff Radahn's Soul into! How in the F did he even DO that! Miquella was absolutely, the most TERRIFYING Empyrean to ever exist! How did Miquella rip his OWN body, physically apart, without dying! (nut-bag theory) Did he have a FInger-Slaying Blade, that's the ONLY thing, that we know of, that can do that to a Empyrean! To REALLY achieve what Miquella was attempting, damn right he was going to utilize the Frenzied Flame's power, to actually become a God, no matter the cost! He was SO in control of himself, (or so he thought!), WE know different! Miquella didn't manifest into a Lord of Frenzied Flame, most of us think about, but, he DAMN SURE used it's strength! WIth this new context, what happened to Radahn, Mohg, Malenia, and FAR more, even WORSE that we saw in game! At least, it isn't much, but, after Promised Consort Radahn is defeated, the NIGHTMARE Mohg and Radahn was in, BANISHED, and given proper peace and rest BOTH of them deserved, and Malenia, and MORE, was AVENGED! I know, this REALLY went all over the place, but, at least I know, I'm among those who thought of this too! My own Theories, and Emerald Gecko's, put together, almost called the ENTIRE DLC! HE said that:' You were more RIGHT than you knew, you're not crazy!' It is because of Gecko, that I started to share my BAT-S%#@ Theories, in the first place! Because, as we know, the Comment Section, can be CRUEL at times! OHH! I'll be coming here more often now! KEEP THIS UP!
These points are really interesting to think about. I love Geckos stuff!! I’m in the EU atm but I will take a closer look at these ideas when I’m home 😌👌
Thank you for finally pointing out the obvious to people too lost in their own dumb theory sauce to realize that "distant land" means a land that is DISTANT. People who don't read fiction should not be doing literary anlysis on elden ring and the stupid "torch is Nanaya's baby" theory is proof of that.
BASED. Ah this is so validating thank you.
The Dionysian cults were often suppressed even by the Greek authorities as well, as they were often the ancient form of the proverbial rebellion against authority (essentially the hippies of their age). So it seems that they've stayed on brand thus far. Lol
Like just about everything nowadays, I saw the opening ceremony as yet another needlessly controversial piece, attempting to spread some surface level message, less so through the actual art, and more from the reaction that they knew the loudest voices on the internet (and the ones repeated/reported most often); yet it ends up being just another lazy, vapid, and boring art piece. Not mad at anyone, or about the piece itself- but I think its fucking childish that they could have either done something really cool and artistic with either The Last Supper or Dionysis (who takes so many awesome forms, as you stated as well), but instead combined them in a lazy way, with a bunch of people representing ways of life that is largely disagreed with by their target group that they wished to stir up, so they could then turn around and say "well I don't see how you have a right to be upset..." even though people have every right to like, dislike, love, or hate any piece of art- just as I have a right to see the whole thing as lazy, childish, and annoying... and hopefully doesn't cause needless controversy the next time someone wants to make anything involving Dionysis (then I'll blame those who do, for being just as ignorant as that art piece was lazy.) :P
Totally valid! I do agree it was pretty childish. The commentary is interesting in that the artist himself is a Christian, and all the people at the table would have been welcome at christs table. However, that’s not how it was received. Christianity is an easy target because Christian’s are incredibly forgiving. I think there’s a time and place but the olympic opening ceremony wasn’t the time or place for this kind of commentary. I could probably rant about this for a while~ thank you for your interpretation. I appreciated it.
ALL HAIL DIONYSIUS
In my opinion your pronunciation is a bit muddy. I’m not a native speaker and can still follow what you’re saying, but it is definitely “smeared” a bit, like “hisry” instead of “history”. While I understand that this is most likely just the way you’re talking and a local dialect, I think a focus on a clearer pronunciation in video production would make it easier for some people to understand. Just a suggestion.
As a reminder For the future generations, do not Watch this video it's a waste of time
I don't disagree that the Olympic ceremony was intended as art, as much as it was intended to be propaganda. Not from the mindset of revolutionary ideas, but an insistence on an ideological conformity - mocking religion as it's foundation. Everything about that opening ceremony was window dressing, for taking a crap on anyone that disagrees. Anyway - back to the important art. Elden Ring.