Yes, my weight finally started shifting when I went lectin free. Still eating carbs just different kinds and not going hungry whatsoever. It was inflammation and endocrine dysregulation.
My daughter was extremely obese. She actually ate little but gained weight. Her metabolism was wrecked because it down regulated her metabolism because of starvation to keep her alive. I’ve quit keto. Same thing is happening to me. I ate probably 800 calories a day. My metabolism lowered to save energy because I wasn’t eating for energy. Gained weight. I’m paying the price now if 12 years low carb.
Great work! Please have Brandon Dacruz the man is shredded and is constantly talking about the benefits of high energy flux aka eating MORE and moving more versus what mainstream says which is eat less move more ❤
I also noticed when i was on 1st shift for a few months, had to wake up at 4am everyday, got horrible sleep, i gained body fat. My stress was way up, which caused me to eat more than i needed, on top of having bad sleep. As soon as i went back to 2nd shift and fixed my sleep, my body composition improved. Sleep and circadian rhythm is super important for body composition
Most overweight people I’ve ever known don’t actually eat very much at all. My mother, for example; I lived with her for thirty years and she ate very little as someone who was at least 150 lbs overweight. I think childhood and pregnancy trauma tipped her estrogen production and hypothyroidism over the edge when the stress of motherhood and family life kicked in. She also became extremely violent and full of rage like someone with multiple cluster b personality disorders. She was obviously hypothyroid and estrogen dominant and never diagnosed or treated as such. The CICO logic just feels like one more way to moralize an issue that is biological/physiological/hormonal rather than being the sin of “gluttony”. Most hypothyroid overweight people I know are starving themselves out of shame and doing themselves no favors. I’ve done it myself at times and I’ve only been overweight a small fraction of my life. When they/we do “cheat” it’s with food that is high in PUFA by sneaking one donut or having a handful of something “salty” or “sweet” and that’s not helping either. They’d be better off eating sugars and salt without PUFA as needed throughout the day along with balanced meals. But to be seen by others or self-perceived as eating a regular sized meal as an overweight person is an extremely shame-filled experience and so it doesn’t happen as it ought.
Yes. CICO is a virtue signal based on no facts or evidence. Lots of that pertaining to many subjects spouted by ignorant people these days. Dangerous ignorance.
I love this format and your way of teaching! Thank you for talking about this, the idea of calories in calories out never sat right with me. People just want an equation like CICO because they don't want to have to use their 🧠 and they don't want to have to have discernment about what they eat. And I don't blame them, it's not their fault we're being poisoned by our food system.
this is true i got to 8 percent body fat when I stopped being in a calorie deficit and started building muscle without trying necessarily to get lean. Cico is actually a big misconception. It really hard to get out of the cico mentality because the energy balance way sounds counterintuitive.
Great information, very detailed and informative about calories and diet. Personally, I just eat according to what I feel I want and need, choosing from vetted quality items that I’ve found work well for me, and monitor my body and how those items are working, and making adjustments to amounts/ ratios accordingly. The net sum of what my body needs is sent to me via cravings/ signaling. What if my body needs something found in food, sends me signaling for it, but then I mentally override that impression, because I’m counting calories, and the thought of adding fat ie eating some butter, puts my numbers too high for my idea of a healthy weight loss goal, but in actuality, my body doesn’t get the fat it is seeking, to deal with an immune issue or something, and then I get sick. So to me, CICO is something for those who think they know better than there internal body, with regards to what is right/ best at any given time, which to me seems absurd, as implied in the presentation about trying to get an accurate tally on everything. Some things I’ve found that works by listening to my body, is I don’t need to eat as much, because I’m eating a variety/ good balance of nutrient dense macros, and I don’t have to eat as often, and this allows my body to use up everything I supplied it with. How do other animals/ species, make it through their lives without counting calories. Probably just listening to their bodily instincts. The problem is probably people putting the wrong stuff in/ using the wrong fuel/ using contaminated fuel, along with other wrong environmental factors, gain weight, then try to use counting calories to fix the situation. Get rid of the bad fuel. Use a good fuel mixture. And don’t flood the engine. Apply only as needed. Which includes a little foresight/ anticipating fuel needs in advance ie going on a hike, eat well before leaving, etc. Thanks Jay for putting out great health ideas to think about, appreciate.
I disagree with the thing about long-term lower body weight. I am pretty sure my body liked a higher set point years ago. But, I forced my weight down long ago and have kept it stable for decades. It seems now that my body has accepted this lower weight as its set point and it's much easier to maintain now.
Been drinking a ton of soda bc of this podcast. Its actually a blessing bc i use binge on a ton of candy and cookies that could add up to thousands of calories, now i just drink regular soda for carb source and consume thousands of less calories 😂
For me, the idea behind CICO was just the concept of energy balance, and my understanding of it has evolved along with my understanding of bioenergetics. And then when I hear people saying its not CICO, it comes across like they're saying energy balance is not a consideration. Then we end up talking past each other debating a concept we're both defining completely different. Its all very tiresome.
it would be great if you included the references in the description -- would love to dive into them deeper! EDIT: I see you linked them onto your own website, nvm =)
The common conception of CICO is simply what happens when unintelligent people get a hold of scientific concept but don't actually understand what it's describing. It's extremely common, and with diet in particular it's spread so far and so fast that it's become sacrosanct even to people who are supposed to study it. And what's worse, if you say that energy balance is how cells work (true) they like to pretend they've won, that their point that "the digestive system is exactly the same as a bomb calorimeter" (I have seen someone literally say this) is valid.
Excellent video! By any chance, do you have a video that explains even more how an obese person can make changes to lose fat without cutting calories so drastically?
When you build muscle your 'calories out' will increase and that energy can come from stored fat. Basically you need regular hypertrophy training along with increased protein intake.
Totally amazing video thank you so much! this is such a thorough and well put together presentation on such a complex topic, but you broke it all down so well that anyone could understand it. There's certain people out there I wish I could just shove this video down their throats lol I would love for you to comment either by yourself or with Mike or as part of your new show on Thomas delauer's new Mediterraneanish diet approach. 50%protein 30% fat 20%carbs.
If you have excess stored glycogen & fat in your body are you really in an energy deficit? Below what fat or glycogen % would you classify as being in an energy deficit? Should you only rely on exogenous glucose and avoid breaking down stored glycogen to avoid stress hormones?
Glycogen and fat aren't energy (ATP), they're potential energy (fuel). If you have a lack of energy (ATP) and excess potential energy (fuel) you would be in an energy deficit. I'll be explaining this in more detail in the next episode. Some stress hormones release is inevitable (and a part of normal physiology), but in general less is better unless the benefits outweigh the stress (like with exercise)
@@JFwellness why are bioenergist so against fasting and lowering fuel intake if people already have plenty of stored potential fuel on them? Fuel is fuel right? So people shouldn’t intake more fuel until they go down to a certain stored fuel %
@@MarcoPolo-vb1sw Because fasting and calorie restriction makes it worse. Worsening metabolism, thyroid function, and stress hormones. Starving yourself will always lead to your body storing fat unless you continually lower calories to the point where you starve yourself to death. If you are still gaining weight while eating high quality food, avoiding PUFA, and anything related to a seed, there is something else hindering your metabolism.
@@MarcoPolo-vb1sw Your body isn't just taking account of what you have stored but also what your ingesting. If your ingesting a low amount of carbs it's going to assume that the environment you're in isn't plentiful and will continue to store energy until you consume enough to fulfil your activity and bodily functions. Obviously there is a bunch of other things that can effect metabolism, but a low abundance of carbs certainly does as well.
I’m not sure a large amount of people are saying the type of food doesn’t matter when trying to lose fat by eating in a calorie deficit. Main stream medicine, nutritionists, influencers, yada yada I think are all on board that whole real nutrient dense food is important when trying to lose fat percentage
Anti-cico people have a tendency to strawman the beliefs of people who use CICO because of honest misunderstanding. I have never once heard a CICO advocate say hormones and food selection don't matter, or that the metabolic rate is fixed and not variable based on these factors. Jay was careful not to generalize, so Im not accusing him of that here. But it's very common, and I think they just never understood the point of CICO in the first place.
@@CerebralFrictionfor the honest people this is absolutely correct. There are also lots of UA-camrs who understand the CICO argument entirely but ridicule it simply because some nuance exists. Those people are doing it purely for engagement I think.
@@739jep thats why Im so staunchly pro CICO. The argument is mostly semantic, and I pretty much agree with everyone who says they're anti-CICO on everything except how we define CICO. But Im not going to let them get away with it because some of them are just trying to appeal to people who want an easy way out. If its not CICO, "eating less" doesn't work. But we know, you will have to eat less. Fix your metabolism, eat less for short periods while counting calories, mitigate stress and return maintenance, repeat. And eating less sucks, always will.
Regarding insulin resistance; I have seen lots of videos that people on a keto/carnivore diet loses their skin tags. Do you know if people on pro-metabolic can do that aswell? Wondering the same regarding spider veins and floaters in the eyes? Best regards, love your podcast❣️🌞
@@JFwellness Thanks!🌞 I was also wondering about another thing they say in the keto/carnivore sphere. They say that mitochondria quadruples on that approach and I've heard Dr Chaffee say that he never gets sore no matter how much he trains. I get lactic acid in my muscles from literally nothing and I get insanely sore after doing minimal strength training so ofc it sounds appealing to quadruple your mitochondria and never get sore.😅 But I've had horrible experiences with any type of low carb eating bcs I never get any benefits, just drawbacks. I have watched many of your podcasts and I've heard your explanation of ATP production and so on. But I don't think I've heard you talk about this quadrupling of mitochondria-thing?🤔 Another thing, I've also watched your podcasts regarding fructose and Richard Johnson. But I watched a video of his where they saw that fructose immediately impaires glucose uptake in the hippocampus. Essentially starving the cells. And that even when eating pure glucose the fructose production in the brain increases and the same thing happens. They say this is direct evidence that too much glucose and fructose impaires energy production in the brain and that it's connected to Alzheimers. My dad has Alzheimers and I can't deny that that video scared me back to low carb. I'm off it again ofc but it's difficult to not think about what they saw in that study. Do you know more about this? Have you seen the video and the study regarding this? 🪷
@@cammieklund I empathise. I get nasty lactic acid build up quite quickly. I'm reasonably fit and have been slim all my life. I found LC very hard which I didn't try for weight loss which I don't need but more constant energy etc. There was a Polish guy who advocated low carb and how it could improve lactic acid build up. I've read that people who have high lactic acid also don't tolerate alcohol well. I've no idea what the mechanism is supposed to be but I know I don't so I'm teetotal. Lots of anecdotal evidence that low carb is good for delaying Alzheimers. So many questions and so many contradictory answers out there!
What are the digestive issues? If you have SIBO it's one treatment, if you have gallbladder problems, it's another, for gastritis/ gastroenterological problems you might need to live on cooked potatoes without salt or butter, or white rice for 2-4 weeks.
If you are fat person who has horrible life style and diet yes you don't have to lower your calories for burning fat and building muscles. You optimize everything and you can end up looking like athlete on the same amount of calories as before just now you have 20kg less fat and 20kg more muscles for example. But if you already have everything optimized and you have lean and muscular physique you have to create calorie deficit somehow if you want to lose even more body fat. It is no longer healthy or sustainable long term for your body, but if you want to do that for example for some show, photoshoot.. Creating calorie deficit is the only way to do that. You can create calorie deficit by eating less calories or burning more calories or taking drugs that artificially speed up your metabolism and burn calories doing nothing.. Have done non competitive bodybuidling for 15 years. I mean who knows more about transforming your body than bodybuilders..
Look above the well known clusters. What are calories? It's our energy. Where from can we get energy? 1. From glucose = sugar, carbs, or 2. from fat = gluconeogenesis. If you reduce calories, at first it will work, but after a short period of time your body will begin to think it's endangered and will start to store even more fat after the restriction. That's why there's always a yo-yo effect after a calorie restrictive diet - the body wants its protection back. What happens if you use fat calories instead of carbs? this fat will be absorbed, not stored. Why is it so? Because of the processes in the liver. Our Liver stores excessive sugar, because if we aren't sportspeople, we can't burn all of it. With fat there is no problem, it gets absorbed. We can compare: an average sedentary not very active woman, 60-70 kg, 50 yo, needs about 1800-2000 calories. Let her have 150g protein from fish, eggs and meat, and about 200g of animal fat a day. Seems a lot. But! Let's compare with an obese woman. She would eat cereals for breakfast, rice or pasta with sauce, or sandwiches for lunch and maybe some meat, hamburgers with fries for dinner, and snacking throughout the day, even if it's fruits. And let her drink o-juice. So she eats more than 500g carbs and sugar, and she is insulin resistant and has bad cravings. And she is over the goal of 2000 calories. If she's is obese, it's hard for her to move and be active. So she can't burn the excess of calories. Already lean persons with a perfect metabolism, why should they even think of reducing their weight? The body has its needs and it is done naturally. But if he/ she likes, well, reduce training = reduce stress, and it will work. So, not calories matter, but the source of them.
Sincere question: why then with myself and many many clients, calculating RMR and activity level and setting a modest deficit and exercise surplus do we consistently see predictable fat loss of 1-2 lbs per week?
WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT BENJAMIN BIKMAN's ARGUMENTS ABOUT THE AFFECTS OF KETONES ON MITOCHONDRIAL LEVEL ARE BENEFICIAL AND INSULIN AS BAD FOR MITOCHONDRIA.. SINCE HE IS ALSO A RESEARCHER PHD IN BIOENERGETICS...AND GIVES TALKS ON LOW CARB MEETINGS...WHAT DO YOU SAY??
Doesn’t matter. CICO simply and unarguably works, which is why every single sports scientist, doctor, coach, trainer, consultant - will recommend counting calories.
it can generally work in terms of losing weight, but will you be losing fat or muscle? feeling good or completely out of energy? how sustainable is it? are there other side effects? etc. and none of that can be definitively answered by just cutting calories, its totally dependant on what AND how much you eat
Good video that went into the nuances of weight loss and the CICO paradigm. However, my biggest complaint is that this is video is kind of pedantic. The fact is most if not all people who peat just get fatter, and if people do lose weight it's in the range of a couple of pounds, maybe 20. For those who are obese, CICO is a perfectly fine principle to approach weight loss through, and works pretty well. A person with a 100 lbs to lose would be better advised to start with tracking their calories, going for a walk for an hour (eventually aiming to get 10,000 steps in a day), and start with a 500 calorie deficit, as well as cleaning up other parts of their lifestyle like cutting back on alcohol, really prioritizing sleep, and making substitutions like swapping their sweetened drinks for the diet varieties with no calories. He could still resume eating a lot of the processed food and less than ideal foods he currently eats while aiming to eat at 500 calorie deficit. Then this could eventually be worked up to a 1000 calorie deficit. Someone who does this is way more likely to actually lose weight and reverse his obesity. Where the bioenergetic/peaty stuff comes into play is where obesity research is actually stumped and that is weight maintenance and avoiding rebound weight gain. PUFA depletion, minimizing estrogen and endotoxin, improving the liver's effectiveness, getting sufficient carbohydrate, avoiding chronic stress, engaging in dopaminergic activity, getting sunlight, supplementing appropriately which may include thyroid, and so on will be of more practical benefit. Of course someone trying to lose weight could of course monitor his temperature and pulse rate to see if it has declined too much and then possibly take a break eating at maintenance.
Completely disagree! Having time between meals or even fasting allows your insulin to come down and your body to pull from it's fat stores. You have to be fat at one point to understand this. You cannot burn body fat eating sugar all day. A balance in eating and time away from eating is key. CICO works much better for me then eating whatever I want. The bioenergetic model put belly fat on me while watching calories and lowering(not elementing) carbs has helped me maintain and lose body fat.
At what point in this video (or ever) did I say not to have time between meals? Also you absolutely still burn fat while consuming a high-carb/sugar diet, even if you consumed 0 fat (although the amount of fat oxidation would be significantly reduced and I don't recommend that for other reasons). It's also worth highlighting that increasing fat burning is not necessary for fat loss (and can even oppose it). We discussed this in several prior episodes: -ua-cam.com/video/S9Tl3fkwGDU/v-deo.html -ua-cam.com/video/6Ik0IFaa2Oc/v-deo.html -ua-cam.com/video/wxOp1VAHAU0/v-deo.html
I eat over 400g of carbs a day mostly from sugar, close to 4000 calories a day, I don't exercise, have been eating this way for 10 months, Im 6'3 and my weight has been locked at 170 lbs.
Your missing the detail that you need to be insulin sensitive to achieve the effects explained in this video. When insulin sensitive you can have more carbs and require a significantly less insulin to manage blood glucose. Also look up zone 2 training and the effects it has on mitochondria and how fuel substrate gets adapted between fats and glucose it may help explain how eating carbs helps build the furnace that burns off fats
The bioenergetic approach has been difficult for me it just seems like my belly fat is added. I'm 300lbs and not sure if it's for me. I'm coming of 2 years off keto and fasting LEA. I was 250lbs now around 300lbs. I've been Bioenergetic for 8 months. Worried about l the lots of strerch marks around belly and the bloating. My calories average 2500 yet still not losing fat. It seems like whatever I eat is getting stored as soft belly fat. I've been doing around 300 grams of carbs and tried lowering protein to 120 to 130 grams. Also cortisol is low normal( as was tested). Also I've cut my pufa intake drastically
@Billy_Batson69 you should try cutting out fodmaps and starches, you might have a lot of endotoxin production in your gut, dairy might be an issue as well. Also, I would highly suggest stimulating/toning your vagus nerve, this was a game changer for me, just google vagus nerve stimulation and use the meditation, breathing, and humming exercises they suggest, and if you can find a massage therapist that has a vagus nerve massage.
One, two, Biolayne's coming for you, three, four, he's going to argue a straw (man), five, six, he's going act like a di...
😂
How many randomised controlled trials will he refer to this time 😂
Remember - it will be just for the ALGORITHM. 😂
Yes, my weight finally started shifting when I went lectin free. Still eating carbs just different kinds and not going hungry whatsoever. It was inflammation and endocrine dysregulation.
Clear and thorough discussion about CICO, Thank you! Looking forward for next episode.
My daughter was extremely obese. She actually ate little but gained weight. Her metabolism was wrecked because it down regulated her metabolism because of starvation to keep her alive. I’ve quit keto. Same thing is happening to me. I ate probably 800 calories a day. My metabolism lowered to save energy because I wasn’t eating for energy. Gained weight. I’m paying the price now if 12 years low carb.
Great info, Jay. Thanks.
Great work! Please have Brandon Dacruz the man is shredded and is constantly talking about the benefits of high energy flux aka eating MORE and moving more versus what mainstream says which is eat less move more ❤
I also noticed when i was on 1st shift for a few months, had to wake up at 4am everyday, got horrible sleep, i gained body fat. My stress was way up, which caused me to eat more than i needed, on top of having bad sleep. As soon as i went back to 2nd shift and fixed my sleep, my body composition improved. Sleep and circadian rhythm is super important for body composition
Ive been trying to get people to understand that fat loss and weight loss are different things and that you can lose fat without losing weight lol
Lol exactly, that's an important distinction!
Haha. It won’t happen. People wallow in their cognitive dissonance now. It’s their DNA now. A virtue.
Your mistake there is trying! People don't wanna listen.
Most overweight people I’ve ever known don’t actually eat very much at all. My mother, for example; I lived with her for thirty years and she ate very little as someone who was at least 150 lbs overweight. I think childhood and pregnancy trauma tipped her estrogen production and hypothyroidism over the edge when the stress of motherhood and family life kicked in. She also became extremely violent and full of rage like someone with multiple cluster b personality disorders. She was obviously hypothyroid and estrogen dominant and never diagnosed or treated as such.
The CICO logic just feels like one more way to moralize an issue that is biological/physiological/hormonal rather than being the sin of “gluttony”. Most hypothyroid overweight people I know are starving themselves out of shame and doing themselves no favors. I’ve done it myself at times and I’ve only been overweight a small fraction of my life. When they/we do “cheat” it’s with food that is high in PUFA by sneaking one donut or having a handful of something “salty” or “sweet” and that’s not helping either. They’d be better off eating sugars and salt without PUFA as needed throughout the day along with balanced meals. But to be seen by others or self-perceived as eating a regular sized meal as an overweight person is an extremely shame-filled experience and so it doesn’t happen as it ought.
Yes. CICO is a virtue signal based on no facts or evidence. Lots of that pertaining to many subjects spouted by ignorant people these days. Dangerous ignorance.
@@junkgirltoo5005it’s based on the first law of thermodynamics actually.
I love this format and your way of teaching! Thank you for talking about this, the idea of calories in calories out never sat right with me. People just want an equation like CICO because they don't want to have to use their 🧠 and they don't want to have to have discernment about what they eat. And I don't blame them, it's not their fault we're being poisoned by our food system.
Thank you. So much great information here!
this is true i got to 8 percent body fat when I stopped being in a calorie deficit and started building muscle without trying necessarily to get lean. Cico is actually a big misconception. It really hard to get out of the cico mentality because the energy balance way sounds counterintuitive.
Great information, very detailed and informative about calories and diet. Personally, I just eat according to what I feel I want and need, choosing from vetted quality items that I’ve found work well for me, and monitor my body and how those items are working, and making adjustments to amounts/ ratios accordingly. The net sum of what my body needs is sent to me via cravings/ signaling. What if my body needs something found in food, sends me signaling for it, but then I mentally override that impression, because I’m counting calories, and the thought of adding fat ie eating some butter, puts my numbers too high for my idea of a healthy weight loss goal, but in actuality, my body doesn’t get the fat it is seeking, to deal with an immune issue or something, and then I get sick. So to me, CICO is something for those who think they know better than there internal body, with regards to what is right/ best at any given time, which to me seems absurd, as implied in the presentation about trying to get an accurate tally on everything. Some things I’ve found that works by listening to my body, is I don’t need to eat as much, because I’m eating a variety/ good balance of nutrient dense macros, and I don’t have to eat as often, and this allows my body to use up everything I supplied it with. How do other animals/ species, make it through their lives without counting calories. Probably just listening to their bodily instincts. The problem is probably people putting the wrong stuff in/ using the wrong fuel/ using contaminated fuel, along with other wrong environmental factors, gain weight, then try to use counting calories to fix the situation. Get rid of the bad fuel. Use a good fuel mixture. And don’t flood the engine. Apply only as needed. Which includes a little foresight/ anticipating fuel needs in advance ie going on a hike, eat well before leaving, etc.
Thanks Jay for putting out great health ideas to think about, appreciate.
I disagree with the thing about long-term lower body weight. I am pretty sure my body liked a higher set point years ago. But, I forced my weight down long ago and have kept it stable for decades. It seems now that my body has accepted this lower weight as its set point and it's much easier to maintain now.
Been drinking a ton of soda bc of this podcast. Its actually a blessing bc i use binge on a ton of candy and cookies that could add up to thousands of calories, now i just drink regular soda for carb source and consume thousands of less calories 😂
i drink 2 large bottles of coke a day and 6 tablespoons of sugar in coffee lost 20 lbs in last 9 months sugar rules!!!
For me, the idea behind CICO was just the concept of energy balance, and my understanding of it has evolved along with my understanding of bioenergetics. And then when I hear people saying its not CICO, it comes across like they're saying energy balance is not a consideration. Then we end up talking past each other debating a concept we're both defining completely different. Its all very tiresome.
it would be great if you included the references in the description -- would love to dive into them deeper! EDIT: I see you linked them onto your own website, nvm =)
42:00, 46:35, 48:00 , 52:00, 58:55, 1:08:00
The common conception of CICO is simply what happens when unintelligent people get a hold of scientific concept but don't actually understand what it's describing. It's extremely common, and with diet in particular it's spread so far and so fast that it's become sacrosanct even to people who are supposed to study it. And what's worse, if you say that energy balance is how cells work (true) they like to pretend they've won, that their point that "the digestive system is exactly the same as a bomb calorimeter" (I have seen someone literally say this) is valid.
Excellent video! By any chance, do you have a video that explains even more how an obese person can make changes to lose fat without cutting calories so drastically?
I'd recommend starting with this podcast series: ua-cam.com/video/_H4HO7lEoAg/v-deo.html
@@JFwellness Thank you
When you build muscle your 'calories out' will increase and that energy can come from stored fat. Basically you need regular hypertrophy training along with increased protein intake.
Once the problem is described, it is only the matter of time until the solution will be found.
Totally amazing video thank you so much! this is such a thorough and well put together presentation on such a complex topic, but you broke it all down so well that anyone could understand it. There's certain people out there I wish I could just shove this video down their throats lol
I would love for you to comment either by yourself or with Mike or as part of your new show on Thomas delauer's new Mediterraneanish diet approach. 50%protein 30% fat 20%carbs.
You're welcome, that's great to hear! Sure I'll add that to the list
Awesome. 👍🏻.
This is the most sober and impatial destruction of CICO I have seen to date.
If you have excess stored glycogen & fat in your body are you really in an energy deficit?
Below what fat or glycogen % would you classify as being in an energy deficit?
Should you only rely on exogenous glucose and avoid breaking down stored glycogen to avoid stress hormones?
Glycogen and fat aren't energy (ATP), they're potential energy (fuel). If you have a lack of energy (ATP) and excess potential energy (fuel) you would be in an energy deficit. I'll be explaining this in more detail in the next episode.
Some stress hormones release is inevitable (and a part of normal physiology), but in general less is better unless the benefits outweigh the stress (like with exercise)
@@JFwellness why are bioenergist so against fasting and lowering fuel intake if people already have plenty of stored potential fuel on them?
Fuel is fuel right? So people shouldn’t intake more fuel until they go down to a certain stored fuel %
@@MarcoPolo-vb1sw Because fasting and calorie restriction makes it worse. Worsening metabolism, thyroid function, and stress hormones. Starving yourself will always lead to your body storing fat unless you continually lower calories to the point where you starve yourself to death. If you are still gaining weight while eating high quality food, avoiding PUFA, and anything related to a seed, there is something else hindering your metabolism.
@@Militantmind but how can you starve yourself if you already have plenty of stored fuel? Adding more fuel doesn’t make sense.
@@MarcoPolo-vb1sw Your body isn't just taking account of what you have stored but also what your ingesting. If your ingesting a low amount of carbs it's going to assume that the environment you're in isn't plentiful and will continue to store energy until you consume enough to fulfil your activity and bodily functions. Obviously there is a bunch of other things that can effect metabolism, but a low abundance of carbs certainly does as well.
OMG thank you
Ohh you're going to poke the Biolayne Bear with this one!
I’m not sure a large amount of people are saying the type of food doesn’t matter when trying to lose fat by eating in a calorie deficit. Main stream medicine, nutritionists, influencers, yada yada I think are all on board that whole real nutrient dense food is important when trying to lose fat percentage
Anti-cico people have a tendency to strawman the beliefs of people who use CICO because of honest misunderstanding. I have never once heard a CICO advocate say hormones and food selection don't matter, or that the metabolic rate is fixed and not variable based on these factors. Jay was careful not to generalize, so Im not accusing him of that here. But it's very common, and I think they just never understood the point of CICO in the first place.
@@CerebralFrictionfor the honest people this is absolutely correct. There are also lots of UA-camrs who understand the CICO argument entirely but ridicule it simply because some nuance exists. Those people are doing it purely for engagement I think.
@@739jep thats why Im so staunchly pro CICO. The argument is mostly semantic, and I pretty much agree with everyone who says they're anti-CICO on everything except how we define CICO. But Im not going to let them get away with it because some of them are just trying to appeal to people who want an easy way out. If its not CICO, "eating less" doesn't work. But we know, you will have to eat less. Fix your metabolism, eat less for short periods while counting calories, mitigate stress and return maintenance, repeat. And eating less sucks, always will.
Except it’s not a myth , it’s basic thermodynamics and a deficit is certainly required in order to lose the fat. 🤷♂️
Regarding insulin resistance; I have seen lots of videos that people on a keto/carnivore diet loses their skin tags. Do you know if people on pro-metabolic can do that aswell? Wondering the same regarding spider veins and floaters in the eyes? Best regards, love your podcast❣️🌞
Yep I've seen that happen using a bioenergetic approach as well
@@JFwellness Thanks!🌞 I was also wondering about another thing they say in the keto/carnivore sphere. They say that mitochondria quadruples on that approach and I've heard Dr Chaffee say that he never gets sore no matter how much he trains. I get lactic acid in my muscles from literally nothing and I get insanely sore after doing minimal strength training so ofc it sounds appealing to quadruple your mitochondria and never get sore.😅 But I've had horrible experiences with any type of low carb eating bcs I never get any benefits, just drawbacks. I have watched many of your podcasts and I've heard your explanation of ATP production and so on. But I don't think I've heard you talk about this quadrupling of mitochondria-thing?🤔
Another thing, I've also watched your podcasts regarding fructose and Richard Johnson. But I watched a video of his where they saw that fructose immediately impaires glucose uptake in the hippocampus. Essentially starving the cells. And that even when eating pure glucose the fructose production in the brain increases and the same thing happens. They say this is direct evidence that too much glucose and fructose impaires energy production in the brain and that it's connected to Alzheimers. My dad has Alzheimers and I can't deny that that video scared me back to low carb. I'm off it again ofc but it's difficult to not think about what they saw in that study. Do you know more about this? Have you seen the video and the study regarding this? 🪷
@@cammieklund I empathise. I get nasty lactic acid build up quite quickly. I'm reasonably fit and have been slim all my life. I found LC very hard which I didn't try for weight loss which I don't need but more constant energy etc. There was a Polish guy who advocated low carb and how it could improve lactic acid build up. I've read that people who have high lactic acid also don't tolerate alcohol well. I've no idea what the mechanism is supposed to be but I know I don't so I'm teetotal. Lots of anecdotal evidence that low carb is good for delaying Alzheimers. So many questions and so many contradictory answers out there!
skin tags yes, floaters no
@@plantagenant try active riboflavin for that problem, active B6 and l-taurine
What kind of protein should one eat when having digestive issues and on a very low budget, so no acces to grass fed and finished meat?
Gelatin powder works really well for me! Doesn't have to be grass fed.
Ground beef
What are the digestive issues? If you have SIBO it's one treatment, if you have gallbladder problems, it's another, for gastritis/ gastroenterological problems you might need to live on cooked potatoes without salt or butter, or white rice for 2-4 weeks.
@@SG-ji5ij that's what I'm eating mostly, maybe that's my problem. I've to try some other meats I think
@@orchidmuse gasses and bloating
If you are fat person who has horrible life style and diet yes you don't have to lower your calories for burning fat and building muscles. You optimize everything and you can end up looking like athlete on the same amount of calories as before just now you have 20kg less fat and 20kg more muscles for example. But if you already have everything optimized and you have lean and muscular physique you have to create calorie deficit somehow if you want to lose even more body fat. It is no longer healthy or sustainable long term for your body, but if you want to do that for example for some show, photoshoot.. Creating calorie deficit is the only way to do that. You can create calorie deficit by eating less calories or burning more calories or taking drugs that artificially speed up your metabolism and burn calories doing nothing.. Have done non competitive bodybuidling for 15 years. I mean who knows more about transforming your body than bodybuilders..
Agree. Trying to get shredded requires an attention to calories, whether we like it or not.
Look above the well known clusters.
What are calories? It's our energy. Where from can we get energy? 1. From glucose = sugar, carbs, or 2. from fat = gluconeogenesis.
If you reduce calories, at first it will work, but after a short period of time your body will begin to think it's endangered and will start to store even more fat after the restriction. That's why there's always a yo-yo effect after a calorie restrictive diet - the body wants its protection back.
What happens if you use fat calories instead of carbs? this fat will be absorbed, not stored. Why is it so? Because of the processes in the liver. Our Liver stores excessive sugar, because if we aren't sportspeople, we can't burn all of it. With fat there is no problem, it gets absorbed.
We can compare: an average sedentary not very active woman, 60-70 kg, 50 yo, needs about 1800-2000 calories.
Let her have 150g protein from fish, eggs and meat, and about 200g of animal fat a day. Seems a lot. But! Let's compare with an obese woman. She would eat cereals for breakfast, rice or pasta with sauce, or sandwiches for lunch and maybe some meat, hamburgers with fries for dinner, and snacking throughout the day, even if it's fruits. And let her drink o-juice. So she eats more than 500g carbs and sugar, and she is insulin resistant and has bad cravings. And she is over the goal of 2000 calories.
If she's is obese, it's hard for her to move and be active. So she can't burn the excess of calories.
Already lean persons with a perfect metabolism, why should they even think of reducing their weight? The body has its needs and it is done naturally. But if he/ she likes, well, reduce training = reduce stress, and it will work.
So, not calories matter, but the source of them.
Sincere question: why then with myself and many many clients, calculating RMR and activity level and setting a modest deficit and exercise surplus do we consistently see predictable fat loss of 1-2 lbs per week?
And corollaries...when I eat at calculated maintenance calories...my weight maintains...and when I exceed it I gain fat?
WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT BENJAMIN BIKMAN's ARGUMENTS ABOUT THE AFFECTS OF KETONES ON MITOCHONDRIAL LEVEL ARE BENEFICIAL AND INSULIN AS BAD FOR MITOCHONDRIA.. SINCE HE IS ALSO A RESEARCHER PHD IN BIOENERGETICS...AND GIVES TALKS ON LOW CARB MEETINGS...WHAT DO YOU SAY??
Algorithm
Doesn’t matter. CICO simply and unarguably works, which is why every single sports scientist, doctor, coach, trainer, consultant - will recommend counting calories.
it can generally work in terms of losing weight, but will you be losing fat or muscle? feeling good or completely out of energy? how sustainable is it? are there other side effects? etc. and none of that can be definitively answered by just cutting calories, its totally dependant on what AND how much you eat
nope. im a coach trainer and a scientist I never recommend counting calories! hey from nyc!!!
Good video that went into the nuances of weight loss and the CICO paradigm. However, my biggest complaint is that this is video is kind of pedantic. The fact is most if not all people who peat just get fatter, and if people do lose weight it's in the range of a couple of pounds, maybe 20. For those who are obese, CICO is a perfectly fine principle to approach weight loss through, and works pretty well. A person with a 100 lbs to lose would be better advised to start with tracking their calories, going for a walk for an hour (eventually aiming to get 10,000 steps in a day), and start with a 500 calorie deficit, as well as cleaning up other parts of their lifestyle like cutting back on alcohol, really prioritizing sleep, and making substitutions like swapping their sweetened drinks for the diet varieties with no calories. He could still resume eating a lot of the processed food and less than ideal foods he currently eats while aiming to eat at 500 calorie deficit. Then this could eventually be worked up to a 1000 calorie deficit. Someone who does this is way more likely to actually lose weight and reverse his obesity.
Where the bioenergetic/peaty stuff comes into play is where obesity research is actually stumped and that is weight maintenance and avoiding rebound weight gain. PUFA depletion, minimizing estrogen and endotoxin, improving the liver's effectiveness, getting sufficient carbohydrate, avoiding chronic stress, engaging in dopaminergic activity, getting sunlight, supplementing appropriately which may include thyroid, and so on will be of more practical benefit. Of course someone trying to lose weight could of course monitor his temperature and pulse rate to see if it has declined too much and then possibly take a break eating at maintenance.
Completely disagree! Having time between meals or even fasting allows your insulin to come down and your body to pull from it's fat stores. You have to be fat at one point to understand this. You cannot burn body fat eating sugar all day. A balance in eating and time away from eating is key. CICO works much better for me then eating whatever I want. The bioenergetic model put belly fat on me while watching calories and lowering(not elementing) carbs has helped me maintain and lose body fat.
At what point in this video (or ever) did I say not to have time between meals? Also you absolutely still burn fat while consuming a high-carb/sugar diet, even if you consumed 0 fat (although the amount of fat oxidation would be significantly reduced and I don't recommend that for other reasons). It's also worth highlighting that increasing fat burning is not necessary for fat loss (and can even oppose it). We discussed this in several prior episodes:
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I eat over 400g of carbs a day mostly from sugar, close to 4000 calories a day, I don't exercise, have been eating this way for 10 months, Im 6'3 and my weight has been locked at 170 lbs.
Your missing the detail that you need to be insulin sensitive to achieve the effects explained in this video. When insulin sensitive you can have more carbs and require a significantly less insulin to manage blood glucose. Also look up zone 2 training and the effects it has on mitochondria and how fuel substrate gets adapted between fats and glucose it may help explain how eating carbs helps build the furnace that burns off fats
The bioenergetic approach has been difficult for me it just seems like my belly fat is added. I'm 300lbs and not sure if it's for me. I'm coming of 2 years off keto and fasting LEA. I was 250lbs now around 300lbs. I've been Bioenergetic for 8 months. Worried about l the lots of strerch marks around belly and the bloating. My calories average 2500 yet still not losing fat. It seems like whatever I eat is getting stored as soft belly fat. I've been doing around 300 grams of carbs and tried lowering protein to 120 to 130 grams. Also cortisol is low normal( as was tested). Also I've cut my pufa intake drastically
@Billy_Batson69 you should try cutting out fodmaps and starches, you might have a lot of endotoxin production in your gut, dairy might be an issue as well. Also, I would highly suggest stimulating/toning your vagus nerve, this was a game changer for me, just google vagus nerve stimulation and use the meditation, breathing, and humming exercises they suggest, and if you can find a massage therapist that has a vagus nerve massage.