Uponor Pipe System Review & Comparison
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- Interested in having an Uponor plumbing plan done for your house? Learn more here. www.uponor-usa.com/en/constru...
Today’s build show sponsored by Uponor. What’s the best plumbing system for your next BUILD? In today’s Build Show we will explore all the pros/cons with PEXa (Uponor) vs PEXb. I’ve used mainly PEX in my homes for the last 20 years so I’ve got lots of experience with these systems and their fittings.
For more info go to www.uponor-usa.com/
Copper vs Pex vs SharkBite - Freeze Testing - • Copper vs Pex vs Shark...
Copper vs PEX Freeze Test Part 2 - • Copper vs PEX Freeze T...
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I did a bunch of research on PEX before going for Uponor a couple years ago. On any metric, except material price, I believe it comes out ahead. My favorite fact is that is the only system (that I know of) that utilizes the physical properties of the material to secure the connection. After expanding the PEX, it clamps down on the fitting over time as the crosslinked polymers try to return to their original shape. Other systems use crimps or push-clamps that are under stress holding the pipe on the fitting, so I consider it a matter of time before something fails. And by my estimation, the time I saved re-plumbing two bathrooms easily paid for the Dewalt PEX expander compared to working with copper.
Was health assessed as one of your metrics? Do we know about any long term water quality issues with these types of plumbing systems?
@@Freedacarlo Pex is used a lot in EU (where standards are much higher than US) it's safe. There has been some studies that show leach in HIGH chlorine environments in the US. But only certain brands and in all brands it generally diminished to the point of being undetectable after 30days. Pex overall is very safe.
Okay now research Zurn its expandable just like Uponor without the dangers of leaching chemicals, please research a little deeper I know it's not proven that Uponor pex-a is dangerous but some experts say it is so why take a chance when you've got a choice and still have a pex-b thats expandable
@@Freedacarlo I didn't specifically look into health but given that these are made of long-chain plastic polymers I wouldn't expect them to be particularly susceptible to leeching into the water. And in a comparative sense there is no flux residue, solder, or oxidation as could be seen in a copper system - but I'm certainly no expert.
Rehau #1
I've got three reasons why uponor is the best. Today's video is sponsored by uponor.. I guess 2 more to go from here?...
Except it is
Lmfao
It may be the best but when the video is sponsored by one of the choices, you instantly lose any credibility that you have.
You use to get good honest reviews on UA-cam but with all the people all about the money and getting sponsor ship deals, it has become like those corny late night paid infomercials.
@@K-dog2020 Within the past few years Matt has gathered so much popularity that I don't anymore trust his judgement to be unbiased. Stuff he recommends might be good but not necessarily the best. It will not be the cheapest, because companies that have money to market will also increase their prices.
Ok, then ignore his presentations and refer to ASTM test ratings. 5106 is the best rating I’ve seen for any Pex. Then try using it. Compared to anything we’ve used, Uponor is best handling, especially in tight stud bays. The only issue I have is fitment required investment in Milwaukee M12 platform tool. We’re already invested in Hilti, Metabo and Makita battery platforms, did not need another battery-charger to deal with but that was part of gig.
Love watching Matt’s videos, and I do believe he shows good construction methods with quality products.. but I also believe there are much cheaper, yet still quality alternatives to the products he pushes
I'm a plumber. My company has been using Uponor since the beginning. Can't stop, won't stop.
you should tell them to use Press fittings... so much better.... no flexing when its hot
We used pex "A" uponor in our renovation and I am extremely happy with it! I would highly recommend you get a cordless expansion tool. I started with a manual one and within a couple of hours I decided to drop the hammer on a cordless one ! Lol! Yeah it's pricey but your arms will thank you! But not having to worry about frozen pipes and the money you save on fittings will make you happy. Doing a re- plumb with pex is remarkably easy as well. I highly recommend you start with a plan first though! Don't just try and follow your current plumbing. Oh and go up a size from your current pipes as well.
The whole "this is a review of X and why X is the best option, sponsored by X" is so weird. How could anyone trust your judgement fully when they are paying you to speak on their behalf?
Yeah, it's kind of gross, even though I really believe Matt is an honest guy.
@@gregw2388 Matt may be somewhat honest, but he is a top level shill, no question.
Look at Matt's history. He's been talking Uponor up for years.
For God's sake! He's putting it in his own house!
YES, the guy is being sponsored. And he probably got a nice deal on the stuff used in his home.
But if you were sponsored by "Crappy Pex Systems", a place that's exactly what it says on the tin, would YOU use it in your own home?
Look back through his vids. He's done quite a bit of Pex and fitting testing.
@@PhotonHerald LOL! Somebody got their panties in a bunch. It's cute how you hit the thumbs up on your own reply.
@@ryanroberts1104 Huh? Pretty sure I didn't. But if I did, sorry if it offends your delicate sensibilities.
Matt that link i sent is from the guy who first started using type A in the states you may find it interesting.
BTW I really enjoy your episodes find them very educational easy to follow & really appreciate that you only use quality parts and devices ect , thank you for your shows God bless 🙏.
Very excited to see the race track system on your house! Many videos on PEXa manifold systems, but none that I've found on a racetrack. It makes a whole lot of sense, but I really want to see it!
All great points and it’s the truth. You’ve got it figured out in my opinion Matt! Pex-A .. 3/4 trunk and 1/2 branch with hot water recirc 👌👌
Totally agree. Love this setup. So happy I did my house this way.
The only problem with trunk and branch is the popularity of on demand water heaters...If your the kind of person who will stick with a tank style then it is solid gold
But this is standard when you up the size... you can not go 1/2" Pex to 3/8" pex return you know why....cause it dont exist in Pex... your 3/4" Pex is really 1/2" ...People are under sizing the whole piping system.
As a general terminology clarification pex a, or b are both tubing not pipe like copper and cpvc are tubing. The distinction being, pipe defines size of inner diameter, and tubing defines size by outer diameter.
If you are that technical you might want to measure PEX 1/2 inch tubing the outside measures right around 5/8's of a inch so the information is a little off
They are all tubing including copper
Pipe is metal or concrete, tubing is everything else
@@michaelangelo6378 what about copper tubing?
@@sambojones8681 and stainless steel tubing for flares....
Uponor has discontinued the manufacture of blue and red pex due to premature failures and resulting class action lawsuits. Evidently the clear is not affected as the addition of the red and blue color affects the material. Whole house repiping is starting to happen on less than 10 year old construction. Guess Matt might be one of them eventually. There is should be a disclaimer to this show to inform his audience.
The class action suit against Uponer claims that the problem with red and blue Uponer is a result of the pipe being overheated after it is extruded to get the dye to stick. This allegedly causes the pipe to fail prematurely. The clear is not included in the law suit.
Yup started to see it in the service side here in Houston. We have seen it on clear pipe too however. We have seen enough over the past three years that I am switching over to the pureflow system and using our remaining expansion stuff for house to meter replacements.
Apparently, chlorine protection is degraded also that causes the tubing to weaken on the hot side. I will note that ALL of the repairs we have had to make on leaking uponor was on the hot side.
Have the leaks specifically been at or near the joints where is been expanded?
for all you people make sure you realize this is just his opinion on the pipe. But keep in mind no matter what type of pipe you use if put water in it it will freeze. Anything with water can freeze the only difference is PEX no matter which you use does not break when frozen. He is leaving a lot of info out!!
Very excited to see the full tour of the plumbing system
I'm from NYC...I study plumbing.... the best plumbing I think is the best is in Massachusetts. They know there stuff ...Every state is different. FYI Pex is still not legal in NYC ... and part of California. There is a reason why.
Thanks for the video.
Personally, I chose UPONOR and their expansion system because the clear and easy endpoint of the fitting system made me 100% confident. I never used B and always felt I was over paying a little but that being 100% confident about the connections was worth the small increase in price. You pointed out that the labor costs in fittings and time in testing each connection may even make Upon more economic.
Read on PEX B F1960. The world have changed since 1980.
people do not get it pex B uses either type of fittings!
@@mr.redneck2715 It is not PEX B that makes it expandable. It is ASTM F1960. If a PEX is ASTM F1960, Then, and only then, it is expandable. But as far as I am concerned, I know now that Matt Risinger would say anything if a sponsor ask.
@@Appytail i’m not sure what you’re saying but I know you can buy expandable fittings and tools for Pex B
@Don Hawley "PEX A" and "PEX B" refers only to the chemestry and fabrication methods of the piping.
PEX A refers to the ancient "ENGEL" method.
PEX B refers to the far newer "Silane" method.
ASTM F1960 (Sometime called cold expansion PEX) refers to the expandability and compatibility with such fittings. www.astm.org/Standards/F1960.htm
ASTM F1807 Refers to crimping PEX: www.astm.org/Standards/F1807.htm
For example Zurn PEX B is both ASTM F1960 and F1807. Meaning you can use both crimping and expandsion methods. Best of both worlds. And having a far stronger piping.
We have gotten a bunch of crap for our pex plumbing videos, not sure why though it's so obvious that Pex-A is superior! Thanks for the video!
I've toured one of Uponor's plants in Minnesota. Their quality it very impressive.
Lots of flavors.
Can you do a follow up video on recirculation of the racetrack design - are you letting a newer smart heat pump water heater balance it out, or adding a recirc pump , and if so, can't that affect the trigger of heating the water at the tank? Would love to learn more about your setup.
One bonus tip on going with Uponor - making the connection in a tight corner or hard to reach spot; this alone makes it worth going with Uponor fittings over crimp. ONE reason you want to go copper - if you have a rat problem. I mean address the rat problem, but if you're plumbing in an old house that's just too susceptible, rats are known to chew through pex.
As always, another great video.....on the build show!
p.s. if you made it this far, then go ahead and smash the like button...do it.
Uponor is the bar for pex products. Use it for all our pex projects, never had a leak...actually the only leaks we've ever gotten when we charge the pipes is usually on sweat fittings or thread fittings, never once failed an Uponor fitting.
That's weird, I always use the cheapest shit I can get my hands on...never had a leak with PEX either. It's almost like all flavors of PEX are extremely reliable and arguing about the difference is absurd....
The weakness in Uponor is with the plastic fittings that can crack. I think the plastic fittings are ABS plastic. But even a 12 year old can run uponor and install with no leaks. Its pretty much fail proof.
@@guytech7310 I don't believe the Uponor fittings are ABS, they don't publish an exact make up of the plastic, but it's definitely a higher quality fiber reinforced plastic. I've tested these fittings up to 500 psi, and they've never blown out. Actually holds for like a good 2 days before losing any pressure. Even then it holds 100 psi forever. The pex itself does deteriorate if exposed to the sun for too long, but I've seen fittings left outside for a few years that still solid, although discolored
@@WallStreetBeggar I have some crack when getting installed, usually when trying to man-handle them in a tight spot. I am sure they are find under pressure. They're just not a s strong a brass.
Excellent information for a person who only needs to do this once and doesn't want to do a half ass job! Going to be checking prices & tools, or tool rental for Upanor.
Been installing pex since it first came out.....guess what? Either one is fine. Prefer crimp pex because I find it faster and doesn't require expensive battery operated expanders. Every bit as effective at potable water distribution. And don't start with the "uponor is true ID" nonsense either. Your shower valves have 3/8" inlets. Same with faucets etc. Just size your piping correctly and volume and pressure should be perfect. Good uponor commercial though.
Totally agree. How often are you going to find a heat gun in the field during plumbing? Why would the ID of the fitting matter when the flow is controlled by the end fixture that is 3/8". I've been making pex pipe and fittings for various leading manufacturers in the US for years. He does not understand the science. A1V1 =A2V2.
ua-cam.com/video/GV8bqCHc5eA/v-deo.html
@@JS-hl1oc There's a lot more Matt doesn't understand than science. You can tell by his delusional beliefs in taking the bible as a literal text book...anybody who can do that is delusional and does not base anything on their life in "facts". In Matt's head, more expensive = more better, just because it's more expensive. (And they gave him some for free!)
@@ryanroberts1104 You think you evolved from ocean slime.
@@jamescole3152 That's got to be one of the stupidest insults I have ever hard.
Matt, I think I may have mentioned this in another Pex video. Souix Chief also makes Pex-A and fittings, carried at the big green box stores. They moved manufacturing from Mexico to USA, actually here in Missouri. I don’t know how it compares to uponor, however I have plumbed my house, an auto shop, and a few other odd jobs with it with the Milwaukee expansion tool, all functioning fine. Nice I can drive 10 min. And get everything I need.
I use Sioux Chief in the Midwest! Great stuff!
Matt knows god damn well those products exist. He forgot as a matter of convenience.
@@ryanroberts1104 Why you mad? You sponsored by Souix Chief or something?
hitting 20 below temps last few days,cant ever remember pex ever bursting. as you stated use as few as possible fittings in walls,more home runs to main supply runs the better.still use grandpa's copper in machanical area's to stiffen up pipeing supply's.customers have confidence and like a good a strong looking material.keep it straight,level,plumb or good right angle.word of mouth is the best avertisement for good paying customers.
When I started using PEX, Wirsbo was the only option available to me locally. I have used Uponor extensively since. I have tired PEX-b for hydronic heat and have not had any issues, but for the reasons you stated, I prefer Uponor. Also, the heat gun allows you to replace a fitting without cutting off the pipe. Thanks for the comparison.
Uponor is rebranded Wirsbo.
Apollo makes a great selection of Pex-A
And surely Matt has never heard of that. If that was true Matt knows nothing about the building industry!
Very poor chloramine oxidation rating compared to Uponor
Rehau is Pex-A.
Question, for the icemaker line, why didn't you just come straight down, rather than putting the bends in?
Possibly they were at the end of one length of pex and instead of placing a coupler and then 4 feet to the right, installing a tee fitting do the drop down, they just decided to put the tee in to join the two so there would be 1 less fitting in the run. That's the best reason I can think of, but yeah, I would prefer the cleaner install with fewer possibilities of accidentally hitting pluming when installing a picture, cabinet, etc.
Because I got lots of freebees to do it.
Yeah ,I was thinking the same thing.
Coming in late to this question, but here are my thoughts:
The icemaker line is going to a shutoff valve. The valve needs to be in that specific location, in order to be accessible. And it looks like the tubing must enter the valve box from the top due to how the box is constructed.
So the supply tubing must make two bends - a bend to come right and enter the cavity where the shutoff box is, and another bend to return to the correct up-down orientation in order to match the fitting on the valve.
I guess the tubing could have done those bends as 45 degree angles instead of 90 degrees, which would use a bit less tubing and avoid sharper bends. But the tube also has insulation added to it, and maybe the insulation is easier to work with and gives better coverage if the tubing goes thru the studs at 90 degrees instead of 45? I dunno.
But I think the main answer to your question is to look at the fittings on the shutoff box: The tubing enters from the top.
You are wrong about the pex needing 90s to fit that install! pex has cornering reinforcers that will allow it to corner just as well!
Yep without flow loss.
This video is sponsored you forgot that 😉
I use corner brackets all the time all the time. Consumer Reports he ain’t Sponsors always affect the narrative
So you need brackets to make sharp bends. Weird.
It's always so funny when Matt thinks he's an expert on something because somebody sponsored him.
In Oz many brands sell Pex A pipe.
But Uponor left Oz, after only 18mths.
Yep the best system, loved it since I first used it.
drinking game: one shot for everytime Matt is bending one of those pipes.
No thanks, not an alcoholic.
Apollo makes PEX A as well, as it is the brand most available in my area (actually at Home Depot, which is a surpride). But I agree, PEX A is the way to go!
And Matt damn well knows this...
A MINOR YET WELL SPENT upgrade...under sink plumbing...instead of running flimsy 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 inch trap and fittings and then converting to 2 inch at the wall. Convert to 2 inch ABS pipe at the drain tailpiece and use 2 inch ABS for everything including removable trap. Sturdy, serviceable, without any of those prone to leak joints found on 1 1/2 drain fittings.
I just discovered this channel. I watch a shit ton of UA-cam and follow hundreds of channels. I have never seen a comment section where a UA-cam creator gets more shit from their audience than this guy lol. Matt seems pretty honest to me, he says what he likes AND dislikes. why is everyone always so pissed at him in the comments ? You all understand no one can afford to keep a channel this size going without selling sponsorships and ads.
Matt has a really bad issue with tactfulness - he always uses sponsors in the most insulting and clearly delusional ways possible. He generally expects you to think the sponsorship has absolutely no role in his opinion and he would like it all the same if it wasn't free.
The bottom line that isn't true for any human no matter how hard you try, if you don't have to feel the pain of purchasing it yourself then that is a big deciding factor on whether you think it is a good product or not. BMWs would be great cars if somebody else buys them for you, you'd probably give it a great review. But if you overpaid for one and it was always broken, you might have a different attitude toward the product.
I agree Matt gets more shit than other people, this isn't just some weird fluke, he brings it on himself.
@@treyhart6861 That entire thing has been such a disaster. It would be embarrassing for a newb to remodel/teardown/rebuild in the most expensive/confused/mind changing way possible like he has...but Matt is supposed to be a high end builder with experience. He should be embarrassed the way this remodel/rebuild/give matt free stuff contest has turned out, that's not a good look for your business in front of rich clients. It really says "I don't know what the hell I'm doing, I only use stuff people give me, and I figure it out as I go!"
@@ryanroberts1104 Ryan, I'm going to disagree with you. Most of us who have done anything for 20yrs+ can tell you we all make mistakes. We continually learn from those mistakes and attempt to keep up with an ever changing market & Products. I make significantly less "mistakes" then I did when I first started as an apprentice, but I also strive to continue learning every day. Rather then being that "old school" guy who won't change his ways... My2centsworth.
@@DetailCarPro Not sure what you are "disagreeing" with, I'm not talking about mistakes, I'm talking about really bad or complete lack of planning and business sense. It's not something to disagree with, Matt's house and the things he has done and said and then changed 40 times is a complete shit show. Would be one thing if he was just some guy building a house, but he's supposed to be a high end home builder.
Matt has shown with his own house build how totally disconnected he is from reality. Surely something that happens when you spend too much time working for people with too much money...but Matt really isn't in their weight class himself.
Even his old buddy Jordan Smith has been taking pot shots at him on his channel for not living in reality.
@@treyhart6861 However you look at it his house project has been a constant shit show. He has no plan for what he is doing, he's changed it 27 times. At this point it's just whoever will give him free stuff to install. That's fine if he wants to do that for his own home, but it makes him look like a fool when he claimed the whole idea was buying it was to remodel it from youtube in a realistic way. From the very first video everybody was yelling at him and calling him a moron that doesn't understand ROI, it was not realistic in any way, and, it's only gotten worse since then. *It's very funny how many people called it, before Matt ever figured out what the hell he was doing.*
Seriously, go back to the first episode and read the comments, it was hilarious. It seems like he was just using youtube as an excuse for his wife to let him buy the neighbor's house...because he seems like the kind of guy that has to ask his wife for permission.
I have used PEX B .. nevermore. Currently I am replacing 70+ year old plumbing in "this old house" and I am using PEX A for a variety of reasons: Flexibility. Ability to connect a fitting inside of a tight space where accessing with a crimping tool would be impossible. Memory; if you kink PEX A .. just heat it up, need to change out a fitting .. just heat it up, PEX A will go back to original shape. And yup I ran Uponor .. but they didn't sponsor me. ;) I used all brass fittings as they can be reused, whereas the plastic are one use fittings. Oh and I have a DeWalt expansion tool.
One last thing. When bending the PEX you are not putting crimps in the tubing, you are kinking the tubing. LoL!! Just picking on ya Matt! But with PEX A when someone would say its kinked I would say .. What kink!? ;)
Looks like a good way to fix the OEM mess in my RV.
Love to watch your videos, you always have a clear and easy understand explanation.
Can I make a two connections on the 3 inch long piece (in other word can I expand at two ends of the 3 in long piece of Pex A)?
Yes
The great part about PEX A is if you mess up and need to take the connection apart, you simply cut the white ring with a razor and heat it up with a heat gun, it opens right up and pops off. Can reuse the expensive fittings at will. SOOOOO much easier than copper!
Pex-A is the best. The ease of installation, the cost of materials and labor reduction is amazing. I've seen galvanized and copper burst. I haven't seen it with pex-a.
"All the flavors of PEX"
Cherry, blueberry.
Sometimes there's plain. Not nearly as tasty.
Apollo has a PEX A product series that can be purchased at Home Depot. Some stores have it in stock, others don't. Uponor is not the only company making PEX A.
Sioux Chief makes PEX A, as well as a PEX B that can be used with both crimp fittings and PEX A expansion fittings.
Apollo and Sharkbite are now making Pex-A tubing and fittings which you can get from the blue and orange stores. I still did my house with Pex-B.
I'll go to Uponor when they get the power expander below $200 and get the pipe into the big box stores.
Fair points
Yup. As good as uponor is, pex B and its fittings are widely available.
You can get the manual for under $100.
If you want the power expander, and already have a battery system you're using, you can get the tool for around $270.
Yes, if you're just doing one job with it, that's a waste of money.
If you plan on doing multiple PEX projects, the term you're looking for is "ammortization".
@@PhotonHerald If you're doing one job, they have decent resale value. Selling it for 2/3 its MSRP would be like renting it for a day, but you could keep it for a year and use it as much as you want first. I'm a cheapskate, but if the tool cost is the problem, I see ways around that.
Matt, are you using the Uponor residential fire sprinkler system that integrates into your domestic water lines?
Appreciate the content you out out Matt, always good to see how other people do things. I have noticed in some recent videos alot of electrical cables run with water feeds. Is there no requirement for separation of services in the US ?
Why would you need to separate them? The wires are double insulated, and the pipes are solid?
Its code in Aus. Seems unlikely to be an issue but that's the rule. 25mm from cold and 100mm for hot water feeds.
It depends on where you build, some areas make you separate so that if the water leaks you reduce the risk of shorting out the electrical while other areas don't require it but recommend it.
As a plumber for 25yrs I can also bring up another point with Pex A vs B. Pex A you expand the pipe for fittings which means that the memory of the pipe is making those fittings stronger. Also with Pex B if you do not oversize the system accounting for the flow restriction of fittings (since they fit inside the pipe) and use a crimp fitting. You asking for callbacks in regards to pressure at certain fixtures. No such worry with Pex A as the fittings present no restriction/reduction. (Sorry posted this before watching end of video) =P
Excellent points!
And as a plumber since the late 80's I've never since a pex-b job that was plumbed right have a problem because the angle stop or straight stop drops down in size alot more than the fitting so if any one who's ever had a lost in pressure because of using Pex-b fittings the plumber was a hack or and didn't plumb by code or there water pressure is to weak to begin with ,and any real plumber will tell you the same thing I just said the fittings on PEX-a is a Selling point and yes I do use expansion fittings but I've never seen the lost of pressure with Pex-a crimp fittings unless the house was plumbed wrong ,think about it supply lines less than 1/4 inch in diameter.
You won't see or feel a noticable difference plumbing with pex b vs pex a expansion fittings. Viega pex ran a test and the flow only dropped 1-5% using like a dozen fittings. Idk about you, but the vast majority of my pex runs are maybe a handful of fittings and rarely hit peak usage like in their testing. In reality, you won't see any difference and don't need to size up pipe.
Can you use crimp with Pex A? Or it must be used with the expansion fittings?
@@micruner5163 yes you can use both crimp rings or original expansion rings I've used viega sleeves many time for plumbing repairs.
I like that you can't dry fit expansion pex. How many of us out there have dry fit some crimp fittings and missed crimping one of the rings, only to find it the hard way when you re-pressurize the line.
Uponor was the first of the non push fittings to fail on your pressure test. Don't forget to mention that just because they sponsor the video
What about Zurn's expandable Pex B?
As the President of The International Brotherhood of Rats & Mice (IBRM), our membership reports PEX is the favorite piping system to keep our collective teeth sharp.
"I don't even know if another company makes pex-a." Such a shill for uponor you don't even look elsewhere. Sioux chief makes powerpex A and it's like half of uponor. I use it all the time.
Reading the forum it looks like Apollo and Reheu make pex A as well.
But he must have done research on the product to come to the independent conclusion that it's better right? The fact that they paid him probably has nothing to do with it. And I still believe in the tooth fairy.
and wirsbo
Rehau invented pex a piping
It could just be what's available in his area
@@joeltell8484 Not true. Wirsbo invented PexA. Wirsbo has been rebranded as Uponor several years ago
My personal experience with Uponor. My new build home is plumbed with Uponor. I add a water softener loop and a hot/cold faucet in my garage. Had trouble with the 1/2” expansion rings sliding past the end of the tube when I expanded them. No issues with 3/4 or 1” sizes. I was using all Uponor products. Expansion tool was a Dewalt.
Another question I had? My pressure regulator and tankless hot water heater are plumbed with metal crimp rings rather than the Uponor expansion rings. All Uponor tube. Any ideas why they would use the expansion rings? Cheap? Lazy?
Given your video on Lstiburek and hot water circulation/energy savings, how did you deal with your pex hot water supply?
Matt are you using a recirc pump in your racetrack system? Is it a return style that brings your hot water back to the tank?
On the Pexuniverse site they sell Pex-A but its under the Sioux Chief brand so there is other Pex-A providers just not like Pex-B where on the site they have Viega, Sioux Chief, and Everhot.
Yes, that is the brand I bought from Pexuniverse when I bought the supplies to replace the steel pipe I had with PEX. Did not get the power expander, used the manual one, because I'm not going to spend that much on a one off tool.
I've managed to uncrimp things that people said were permanently crimped via kinking. I did it by slowly messaging the pipe back into shape by slowly applying increasing force (in a messaging like motion with my finger tips, without pushing too hard) on the apposing sides at the points where they're at their hardest to cause the shape to bow out at the point where it's been crimped inwards. I've never done this with PEX (so I don't know how that would fair), but I have done this to deformable plastic pipes that weren't meant to be bent. The process does take a minute or two once you find the right amount of force to slowly cause the pipe to deform back into shape.
This was a 15 minute Ad for Uponor. If they gave me free products for my home “renovation” of course I would say it’s the best.
I prefer unbiased opinions on building supplies.
In the end, the best would be the least expensive- total cost - that meets the spec: reliably get you the needed water where you want it for a long time. The other “emotional” arguments you present with numbers don’t really “hold water” - pun intended. I’m an engineer, so I have to be logical. Nice video.
Could not agree more. Spec it to work properly, use the cheapest material that will accomplish this spec. Anything else is a stupid waste. But it's pretty obvious that Matt does not understand the concept of ROI.
And hell, if you get it all free why not use the most expensive stuff and then brag to everybody how it's better? Matt *LOVES* to brag...
Have to disagree with this logic. Meeting spec dose not mean it has to last (unless your goal is planed obsolescent) especially considering the costs of replacement (talking in general, not this video in particular) will frequently end up being more expensive than using better quality parts that exceeded spec to begin with. While I enjoy his videos, the frequency of major flaws and comments about materials independent of increased cost (that are not financially viable for many) get tiring.
@@Shakrii You are incorrect. If something properly "meets spec" for said purpose, then it is a good product, and there should be no reason to believe it would ever need to be replaced within the expected lifetime of a house. "Meets spec" doesn't mean "use the cheapest shit you can find". There's a place in the middle where you can find quality products, without spending triple what everybody else does, but it won't be the cheapest way to do things either.
Example: PEX A and PEX B have the same life expectancy. PEX A is not in any way more reliable than PEX B, it will not last any longer. You can argue the fittings flow more, though if you "spec" it correctly, that is choose the correct size, it wouldn't matter if you use PEX A, B, C, or Q. No matter what kind of pipe you use, it probably will not last 200 years.
The problem with Matt is he thinks this high end shit should be in absolutely every house, including the 99% of people who can't afford it. And then he talks down to all the "normals" who don't have this high end stuff, and also are the majority of his viewers. The vast majority of his viewers are not rich people, they live in normal spec houses, if that. The reality is he's building a $600k house that will be worth $500k when he's done. That's why everybody keeps saying Matt has no idea what ROI means, and as a result, can't be a very good businessman. He's also the wrong person to get plumbing advice from, he's not a plumber, nor does his business employ a plumber. He doesn't build anything either, he sits behind a desk, that's what his experience is in. If I need to know how to make a conference call, Matt's the guy to ask!
If you do a little googling about net worth and years in business, you might find Matt isn't the builder he wants you to think he is. It's sugar momma paying for all this stuff, and donations like some kind of homeless person. He wouldn't be using this stuff either if he had to pay full price like everybody else.
Take a shot every time he says flavor....I dare ya lol
Alky ^^^
Hi Matt, after time spent getting the crimp out, wouldn't it be just as well to put in the fitting?
Plus that don't you have to cut it out of the wall to take it over and rotate it for 5 minutes over a heat gun?
If you put that kinked and melted pipe back in the wall, you're a fucking hack that should be fired. No, it is *NOT* every bit as strong as original. If you're kinking PEX you probably should have called a plumber.
And yes, it would be a hell of a lot easier to just put a splice fitting.
Lol i thought the same thing. Could have put on 20 couplers
So is this sort of like the shape memory effect of superelastic materials?
REHAU is easily the better system. Better warranty and immediate pressurization are 2 of the better options upon or can't offer
There warranty is only their word , but I still love their product
There are other Pex A manufacturers. Mr Pex, Sioux Chief to name a couple.
Zurn makes some Pex B that can be expanded just like Uponor.
I love the way you plumbed your house except for the water heater part. That's a bunch of fittings in such a small area.
All pex B can be expanded. It's purpose is to give options to use expansion fittings or crimp fittings
@@jwblount7802 that may be true not sure but I did put a section of PEX b on my own hot water line that was white on the out side and had a black liner not sure what brand it was but I did expand it and its been holding up for around 5 months so far I've been meaning to replace it but I had ran out of Uponor, but seens then I've started using Zurn
@@plumbbuild6517 I use Zurn 99% of the time on my houses that I plumb. I crimp all the time but sometimes my customers buy faucets or whatever that require expansion pex B covers both. Whether you use crimp or expansion you get 15 to 25 year warranty from the pex pipe company. The white pipe with the black linen I used to use a while back and it was Pex B as well and I have that 10 plus years with that pipe with no problems.
@@jwblount7802 yeah I just switched to zurn so far it's great it may just be my new go to tubing thank for your comment about zurn I think I'm going to like it ,I use uponor for many years but sometimes you have to make a change
Why not compare Uponor PEX A with expansion fittings to Zurn PEX B with expansion fittings? Seems like a better comparison.
True story I've use Uponor a long time and just started using Zurn and I like Zurn better so far because it is a stronger tubing and doesn't leach a chemical taste in the pipe and I'm able to use my hundreds of Uponor fittings on Zurn pipe , if I find out I don't like it in the future I can switch back and still use the same fittings, I can say the expansion ring are a lot better they have a real stop , I buy rings buy the hundreds and the last batch of Uponor expansion rings the stops didn't work ever time I would expand the 3/4 pipe the ring would slip and I'd have to cut the pipe and start over it was a damn nightmare trying to use the 3/4 rings I must have thrown 60 or 70 rings away looking for rings that the stop would actually stop instead of slipping.
@@plumbbuild6517 Somewhere else here I asked about leaching, so I'm glad you mentioned it. I'm amazed that anyone would use a pipe or tube where plastic chemicals leach into the water. If that's the case, I'd never install the plastic. I'd rather have copper in my system.
Anyone have thoughts and experience on the Zurn PEX B with similar expansion fittings to Uponor? I want to use an expansion fitting PEX but I am undecided between the Uponor and Zurn for my house. I will probably go with whatever subs are familiar with and what is readily available in my area unless there is a competitive advantage I am not understanding.
PEX-A is superior. The smart move is to go with Rehau or Upanor PEX-A, and forget all of the other inferior PEX.
Did you attempt to correct “kink”in both? Only showed one in the video? Plus the 2 minutes heating, getting the heat gun, etc would cost more in labour then a fitting? Cost comparison and ease of use, install, and complete package with fittings and so would be helpful?
It can’t be repaired on the PEXb. Fair points on labor. I could see a run of pipe going a long distance and getting a kink in one spot after spending 10 min getting it run. Better to repair then add another fitting in my mind.
@@buildshow understood, thanks for clarifying.
Part of the demonstration has other real world applications. Say you pipe freezes but doesn't burst. On Pex A the frozen pipe will return to original over time. Pex B you would have to repair the freeze expansion section of pipe (due to weakening) even if it didn't burst.
On a related subject, what suggestion do you have to prevent noise within walls caused by the expansion/contraction of hot water pex lines? I thought I would be done with the clacking noise of copper lines, but I was wrong.
Holy crap....That's is what I been saying...and I'm a certified Uponor installer. you cant stop the hot water from expanding...and it will always creak...Copper will always be the best as long you insulate the pipe.. dont under drill the hole on the wood.....big difference. Or else you will end up install a hammer rest... with copper ...you can actually have real water pressure. cause 1/2 pex is actually 3/8 copper...same as the ones you install underneath the sinks... but 1/2" copper is actually 1/2"
Have you done a comparison on all the upgrades and and new building practices on your house build as far as cost goes?
@mattrisinger another fact that is equally important. It spends its service life as the only pipe that will continue to become water tight, squeezing tighter forever. No other pipe period can do that.
Right...other pipes are just permanently solvent welded or soldered or use mechanical threads. FAR more "tight" than any shrinking plastic!
Why I think uponor is the clear winner... THIS VIDEO SPONSORED BY UPONOR
not a bad thing just poking fun. Also, why do you insulate cold water supply lines?
It’s indeed a sponsored video, but you should know that I reached out to them for sponsorship as I truly believed it was the winner and I wanted for my build.
I only insulted hot. Except for a few cold lines in exterior walls. (I’m in TX and have 2” of exterior insulation FYI)
@@buildshow Yea I noticed you insulated the hose feed out to your porch aswell. Thanks for the response, love what you're doing. I'd love to get into it here in the SF Bay Area but stuck in my basement for the last year pretending to enjoy civil engineering. Much rather be out on site making high performance and long lasting builds. Let me know of any job openings :D Looking forward to more videos on the house progress
I like the flexibility of the Uponor system, I do NOT like the cost of the required installation tool! Most new builds are going to take the flow restrictions of the standard PEX fitting into consideration and go up a size in piping to compensate so that isn't a real factor. However, on your "kink test" I'd like to see a PRESSURE test done with that section of tubing. Dollars to donuts, if that section is going to fail it _WILL_ fail where it was bent and then heated.
The tool will pay for itself on the first job in labor savings. Even with that kink, most water supplies don't get high enough of pressure to be of concern.
I like pex b and viega pure flow system.
Didn’t the uponor pipe burst first in the video about pressure testing?
Pressure yes. Freezing no
I personally think the main reason plumbers use uponor is because of the special tool needed to expand it. If any home owner wanted to fix or add anything in later they don’t have that tool, so they just hire a plumber. But with pex B a $20 crimper and your good to go and diy that water softener or water heater replacement yourself.
You can buy a manual Pex A expander tool for $100 on Amazon. It comes with 1/2", 3/4" and 1" heads plus the cutting tool and it works great. The down side is you have to rotate the head for each pump whereas the power expanders rotate the head for you.
This might be the case but trust me if you are a plumber you don't want to be under a crawl space using a crimp tool when you can be using an expander tool. I got two crimp tools and and an expander tool. Expander tool is king and by far easier to use IMO.
How well do the plastic fittings hold up if they freeze? Also I've noticed on overhead replumbs in attics that even if insulated (obviously not perfect) that the brass fittings that some types use, sweat, corrode, and eventually fail.
In one application I seen the copper expand before the plastic fitting broke. The job was mostly pex but there was some copper.
Can you use crimp rings on Pex A?I have a bunch of Pex A left over from an old job.Thanks.
What about brass fittings that reduce the size of the line? I have to use a brass fitting to connect to a galvanized pipe before I can switch to pex and it’s already a 1/2 inch pipe.
The uponor fittings are full port since you have to expand the pipe to make the connection so its more like copper and you won't have restrictions at the fittings
Pex B by Zurn can do both with the same pipe!
For anybody worrying about microplastics in your water, the harder the plastic the less likely you'll have microplastics in your water.
Also stop being an idiot about inert food grade plastic that passes harmlessly out of your shit. Kind of like eating a penny.
@@ryanroberts1104 asbestos, silicon dust are also inert...
@@MedoKojiZiviOvde But those particles are harmful to breathe, this is a proven fact. There are no facts to support PEX is bad for you, and it isn't going in your lungs. It goes out the shit hole, which is a very different process. You can literally eat an entire bowl of ground up PEX, it won't hurt you.
It's cute how you hit the thumbs up on your own posts. Actually, I think pathetic is the word for that...
Have you noticed nobody agrees with you?
@@ryanroberts1104 Asbestos and silicon dust weren't proven to be harmful for over 2 millennia of usage. It was recognized as harmful only 50 years ago which is nothing considering to the scale of human society. Microplastics and nanoparticles physically have very similar properties as the other two. If you read about some scientific articles on the subject perhaps you would you would be more informed. Using insults as argumentation sure proves your level of education. I'm a chemical engineer by trades and occupation health and safety specialist just to let you know.
@@MedoKojiZiviOvde what would you prefer to use then copper, ever heard of copper toxicity?
Science has come a long way they now have much better equipment to determine risk factors, so unless you are going to go stainless steel pipes PEX is the best option.
Wow I’m glad I was trained to pipe in commercial settings and not residential. How are you going to insulate your pipes when you drill a 5/8” hole for 1/2” pex? Always over size your holes for full size insulation on your piping
Why is the water line to the ice maker insulated?
Although brass uponor fittings are better, than the plastic uponor fittings? Is it worth the cost? Are you 100% comfortable the plastic uponor fittings won't crack in the corners? like on the t's
Would it be wise to use those 3 split manifolds instead of 3 separate Ts off my trunk line? I'm doing an old home retrofit. Definitely want to use this expansion system over crimp rings I'm sold. Just trying to do it the easiest most efficient way. I'm guessing I could use one 3 split to run all 3 of my water lines in one bathroom instead of 3 T's. What is this racetrack recirculation stuff I'm hearing?
Uponor flexibility is great. If it does get kinked you can use heat guns to work it out unlike other Pex. Less fittings is money and less fittings reduce how mucch you reduce your water flow. Uponor fittings always try to squeeze to its fitting and it saves you money on a buying fittings, your most expensive cost over the initial tool investment . .
Uponor does expand and tries to reduce to its normal size . Uponor always tries to reduce to its original size.
I'm a tradesman so I've dealt with all aspects of plumbing at some point.
Pex fittings work fine if you upside the tubing to compensate for the flow.
The stainless steel route is fast and good in tight places but crimping copper rings holds better but the tools are one expensive . They are better then pvc / cpvc but I personally like copper for durability
Matt, also why did they run that plumbing with 90° turns in it? Why not make as few sharps bends altogether? There is lots of information on friction in pipe regarding turns and bend radii so why not drill at an angle going through those two studs from the top plate to the fridge supply valve box??
I don't see why the line for ice maker need to be snaked. From the brief view, I think the tee can be located straight above. Is there any reason why it is done that way?
my understanding is that the Zurn PEX B is an expansion fitting too and they claim a better freeze protection....is this true?
Yes. Being exandable means meeting ASTM F1960. Some PEX B are F1960 concequently having the best of both sides.
No. PexB is stiffer which contractors often mistake for better strength. Hydrostatic pressure is a test of elasticity and shear strength.
We do our homes such that we limit any plumbing on exterior walls. When we have to, they are wrapped in Armaflex and all of our homes employ minimum 4” Comfortboard 80 exterior insulation.
If you refer to ASTM ratings, Uponor and Zurn tested identical 5106 rating. The ‘06’ is perfect score for both under burst pressure testing of 600psi long term testing.
I’d suggest both are highly suitable for freeze burst mitigation but proper design installation is most important contributor.
Can you show how to install Water Hammer Arresters on runs of 3/4 PEX A (Uponor) - WITHOUT Flow Reduction to 1/2 PEX A fittings?
I dont think the heat gun repairs the weak point of the kink, but it may restore the shape. Give that pipe a super high pressure test on a bench and see where the failure happens....
I'm going to tell you why I recommend Uponor, because i'm sponsored by Uponor. But if I have to spend more money on specialty tools then I don't want it.
I hate it when I have to spend my own money on things!! Products that are free are always so much higher quality.
Can you use crimp with Pex A? Or it must be used with the expansion fittings?
I do it all the time, the beauty of Upunor Pex A is that it's very universal in terms of fittings so when you have it on the truck it works for everything. Sometimes it's not logical to use an Upunor fitting in certain situations when you you can use a brass pex fitting that is 3 times cheaper than a brass upunor fitting. This comes into play with repairs and not necessarily new home contraction where you want to keep it strictly Unpunor all the way.
Matt, REHAU is the only other competition to Upanor. Any differences between the two PEX-A brands is rather insignificant. Both are PEX-A, and both have all of the same advantages over PEX B and C, including making long runs, without using lots of couplings.
Of course Uponor your favourite they are sponsoring. They are good though. There are others....
Home depot only had pex B type. So tell me where to buy these pex types for the best price. Zurn has a good rating for sunlight.
What should be used more often is bend supports. Can save you a few extra connections.
Cannot use bend supports in tight places or through studs.
I love the bend supports use em all the time.
Really surprised by the reduction of capacity with some of those fittings, great video
It's a lie. It's just not true.
Viega pex did a test with about a dozen fittings on a run of pipe. The "smaller" fittings show only a 1-5% change in flow. Virtually nothing. Also the vast majority of pex runs have very few fittings. I made a home run system at my last house with 3/4 and plastic pex b fittings. Those are even smaller I.D than brass. I was able to shower, run a garden hose and flush a toilet. Roughly 10gpm with barely any loss in pressure.
@@shawnd567 thanks for sharing. that's because pressure drop has to do with the length of the reduction, in the case of a fitting it's a short run and doesn't generate a lot of friction. I would expect it to be around 1% unless they used excessive amounts of fittings.
sorry for bad understanding of english... but when you say "master kitchen", does this mean you have more then 1 kitchen in this house? (around 2mins)
Has there ever been a study that shows how much erosion happens with the different brands of pex?
How much plastic ends up in the water, cold & hot?
None.
I hope someone will see this and find out this info. Most of us have micro plastic particles floating around in our bodies as it is.
There have been leaching tests that show uponor pex-a releasing a chemical into the water, don't remember what the chemical was. Pex-b on the other hand doesn't leach at all.
@@Dracopendragon013 How about "micro particles"?
@@reddbeard2030 not that i know of
Not a bad video but I can't say that I'm sold, especially the kink fix. Think I'll stick to regular pex with brass and copper fittings and whenever I save up for a dream home, that will be full copper
Copper is no competition for PEX-A. Even the inferior PEX B and C is better than copper, especially if you live in freezing winter climates. Copper can't handle the pressures that PEX can, and it won't leach anything into your water. That kinked PEX-A is still probably six times stronger than a copper pipe. The only thing Copper is good for is doing rigid stub-outs. Personally, I prefer Rehau to Upanor. T the differences between the two are not huge, but I like the Rehau couplers better.
Can you use uponor fittings with any kind of pex?
Sioux Chief and Rehau also make pex a pipe. Nothing wrong with Uponor, but its also the most expensive pex a out there.
Sponsored by Uponor...no conflict of interest here in the assessment.
It's superior. More cost but better product
I mean.. it's really good. He probably got a crazy discount so yeah .. bit ..
@@willlemmond1909 Agreed. I'm have a small re-plumb and I'm using Pex-B because it was a bit cheaper for the crimper and pipe.
Take my assessment and make your own judgments. I’ve landed on Uponor as my favorite.
He's been talking about Uponor products for almost 2 years, at least, before getting them to sponsor a video. I know this because I remember sitting in the Uponor break room at 1am watching his video talking about the product I spent 12 hours a day making... Too think that a company that he likes sponsoring him ,after seeing how supportive he is of it, means he losses credibility is asinine... You just want a reason to complain about something.