Imagine how creative people would have to be to optimize damage on combos if a 10-20 hit limit was applied to every input. Man. They really could have took this game further. Instead, we get watered down tag combos that can only be extended by supers or broken moves like Dormammu's thorns.
Skullgirls' Infinite Prevention System allows bursting if any one button or move is repeated too many times in the combo. This game bursts you out only if one specific button is repeated, which allows for infinites like Spiderman's Web Ball + Reality Stone. It seems like they tried but it doesn't have much thought in it, so it can still be abused and comes off half assed.
Holy shit is this relating to how in heritage for the Future you can do that super move that allows your stand to do whatever you input on the super flash screen, resulting in 30 hit L attack combos
gunna be honest; think you put a whole lot more work into figuring out what this was than they did in putting it in like; someone working on the game just realized how easy a one button infinite was with some of the stones and threw this in with everyone agreeing "yeah sure why not"
you act like this is a new thing. people are gonna find infinites, and they're likely gonna get patched out. have you played any of the old vs games? they are significantly more broken than this. Yeah they're really old, but mechanically this sort of thing is an inevitability in a game like this. big stupid combo are fun, homie. The way I see it you have two ends of a combo spectrum; one end is super restrictive a la SFV and the other is almost completely open like marvel/skull girls. it comes down to preference and I don't see why every comment on a marvel video is from some fucking armchair combo theorist.
fartslash so they went far enough to prevent LP spam but did nothing to prevent infinite combos which don't rely on LP. If infinite combos didn't matter they wouldn't have added the lp spam combo breaker literally any armchair theorist can see that
that still doesn't really sound all that good. Honestly there needs to be a universal number tied to all of the moves. 1. It would be easier to track over all. 2. With that universal number you can plan a reset meta game behind it, making for some added depth.
Oh no, I'm not suggesting it should be implemented. I'm saying in his testing, desk was fixated on the number 20, because that's the amount of jabs that trigger the opponent to flip out. What he didn't test is if other moves cause the opponent to flip out at a higher number.
@ShoRyuBarbie Ah I see, my fault. I thought you were suggesting an implementation of a system like that. However just from the example of Spiderman's Web of Reality infinite it shows that atleast for special moves and gem use do not have that number limit. So i doubt any of the other moves will cause a flip out.
Desk, I've always been amazed with your videos. Music is good too. Do you not have a tournament desire? Apologies if this is a question that gets asked to much. I rarely click on your vids. Edit: I rarely click to avoid burn out. I ruined combo videos for myself back in the day. Can only take them in small doses.
I definitely prefer having only L.P have the limit. Gives more options without needlessly gating things. Now if something comes up as supremely broken they can patch that out without limiting people initially. MvC3's issue was that Capcom couldn't patch it after the REALLY broken stuff got discovered.
NOT TOO SHABBY. COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA!
I see all these comments about how the game is bad and I think that they have come from people were never touched it, I've tried this game recently and its actually reminiscent of TVC, they just nerfed fire combos and you can broque as much as you want
Do you know how/if it applies when character switches are involved? I could see at least 3 possibilities: 1) the two characters share a single lp count; 2) they have independent lp counts that persist (e.g., if you switch twice); 3) the lp count resets at switch. Any chance I could convince you to test it? :) Keep up the great work!
Oh, and meant to add, in case anyone else wants to know without counting (he doesn't have the counter in the first two videos): it appears to be #1: they share a single lp count.
desk i need to ask: When spidey did the crawler assault iron man mini flipped out, THAT is something that needs solving because Im doing simplified versions of combos that cause a mini flip out whereas i see huge more complicated versions NOT flip out and it drives me crazy.
supers don't have the same properties as they did in marvel 3. there isn't guaranteed hitstun anymore. they will flip out of dante's super if the combo is too long also. I agree its dumb but that's how they designed the properties of the supers in this game
i think i saw a video relating hit-stun deterioration to damage, so if your simple combo does a lot of damage before crawler assault that might be the reason they flip?! other that that i think the height you hit also interferes
the game definitely uses hitstun deterioration. if you wanna extend already very long combos it's best to add moves with a trap status or use hypers that have non-interactable cinematics which means lvl3 for the most part.
or you can just skip all of that and use Power Gem. it adds a ton of hit stun to all of your moves. and since this game only tracks Lp it means the second you find a team that can do a loop with Hp, Hk, or Lk the opponent is going to be stuck in Infinite Central.
I feel like at some point, I used the Time (? the green one) Gem's storm, where you can link anything into anything, and made somebody do the flip out combo break with 20x HP (because sometimes I don't feel like trying when I combo), which, if I'm remembering correctly, doesn't fit with the conclusion in the video.
Did they really flip out, or did the hitstun deterioration just get low enough that you could no longer chain HPs? The video does show a combo with 20+ HPs after all
Anyone who's complaining about the infinites in vs games past is a helluva hypocrite if you got into this game because of the competitive fighting seen
Personally I think having the 20x rule to everything would defeat the purpose of Marvel as a whole, which is to do crazy BS. But I do see why it would and why people would want it to be implemented
Ninja The thing about that is that people will sometimes mash like 3 times to hit confirm into a combo. If you wanted a more skill based/reactionary combo game sure, add that, but if you want purely an infinite prevention system this seems to the way to go.
3 l.p in marvel...nah kid lol. That'd be an awful system. 20 lp makes sense because of how easy it is to do an infinite with the game's systems plus it doesn't interfere with general gameplay.
i think you guys are a little confused. When i said Lp should only rapid fire for 3 hits I wasn't suggesting that after 3 hits the opponent would flip out of the combo. I was suggesting that you could only press Lp 3 times in a row before your character would go into a brief recovery. This would beat the infinites caused by Gem Storms like Space, and Soul. As for the Time Gem the recovery of lpx3 would not be cancel-able during Time Gem's Storm. Siddmasher there is ways to balance a game so you don't need this awkward system where you have to keep track in your head just how many Lps you have done in a combo. And if you do want to have an Infinite Protection System, then it should cover everything and not just Light Punch. Jamaal Curry, In the last marvel games you could only rapid fire Light attacks up to 4 times, 5 if you have the opponent in the corner. Pushback and hitstun decay made it impossible to do infinites from just jabbing.
jab infinite are only possible in this game because of stones and how freeform the game's systems are having a solid wall is better than having a loose limitation. Noone is going to freestyle their way into light punches while doing an actual combo, competitively speaking it'll either be a practiced situation or mashing that has you hit the limit in a real match.
Let’s be real if any MvC should have infinites it should be infinite because of the combo switch/break feature. Makes me wish capcom put a combo break in UMvC3
Oh no! Not something that can be turned off by "Hardcore players" but still used by people who are "scrubs" and new to the genre! Whatever shall we do!? It's toxic people like you that hinder the FGC's growth and just donwright piss me off to no trivial end.
For Clarification I don't use them, I just think there should be some sort of restriction on using them, at least in ranked matches or something. I have lost to very few people who use auto combo/super, but I have run into a lot of actually good players who don't solely use it, they just have it on for mashing convenience in scrambles and I don't know an answer to it yet! Then I saw that they have a lot more potential out of auto combos thanks to Desk's awesome tech, but they likely won't be learning tech if they are auto combo warriors anyway? Not sure, there was a lot of talk about this potentially being an issue with the game before launch, I'm playing it a lot though so nothing against the game or desk, just people who refuse to learn actual combos I Guess.
One of my first fighters that I played when getting into this genre was P4A (Persona 4 Arena if you're not sure) This game also features an auto-combo system. The difference is, in this game, depending on who you are, your combos can extend past the AC into a normal BnB, on top of that, doing the first 3 moves of an auto-combo actually grants extra meter in P4AU. In my opinion of MvCI so far, the mashing will die down once players learn, or just get through the leagues into the higher leagues, where that won't be as prevalent. For jabs though, it is best, in my opinion, to just read the jab pressure and hit them with a higher priority move (I think MvCI has a concept of move priority anywho) Or if your character has projectiles, just hit them with something like that. Let me be honest for a second, fighting games are one of the hardest genres to get into because of the steep learning curve and the amount of time required. This is why I'm all-for things like auto-combos, for it allows even new players to, some extent, enjoy the game. If they're enjoying what they're playing, they might stick around and try to actually LEARN the game. Combos, inputs, resets, tech, all of it. I think AC's are a super good gateway for that type of stuff, and the combos aren't crazy optimized, compared to the damage you would be getting, so this adds further incentive to cave and learn "real combos." These are my thoughts on it, I do realize our opinions will probably still differ, but I hope this makes sense to you.
Freddie Wompton Honestly I agree for the most part, recently playing tekken 7 and sf5 online matches pop up way quicker in mvci so that could be part of the reason, or just cause it's still fresh. Still learning to control my sodium levels haha. Thanks for the input
Arthur Feitosa WEB BALL REALITY STONE WEB BALL REALITY STONE WEB BALL REALITY STONE WEB BALL REALITY STONE WEB BALL REALITY STONE WEB BALL REALITY STONE WEB BALL REALITY STONE WEB BALL REALITY STONE WEB BALL REALITY STONE WEB BALL REALITY STONE
kekon3 Counter switch. You start the match with one bar already, if you let one character die because of this infinite it's not the game fault but yours.
well since the infinite prevention system is only limited to the Light Punch Button and not all of the other moves... kinda yeah. I do remember Chris G stating that this game did have infinite protection so to see this slap dash attempt at it is kinda insulting. Not to mention that yes there are multiple cases of poor game design when it comes to this game.
![Captain Marvel Combo Video [8x Strike Flurry in 1 combo]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/K5MZJbzEqR0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Captain Marvel Combo Video [8x Strike Flurry in 1 combo]](/img/tr.png)
![MvCI: Chun-Li Combo Video [Loops, Super Loops, Taunts!]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mXBX4oeZ8Vw/mqdefault.jpg)
We need more of this kind of content. Nice video man, I'm really surprised about the decision to only prevent infinites from LP.
WEB BALL
REALITY STONE
WEB BALL
REALITY STONE
WEB BALL
REALITY STONE
Imagine how creative people would have to be to optimize damage on combos if a 10-20 hit limit was applied to every input. Man. They really could have took this game further. Instead, we get watered down tag combos that can only be extended by supers or broken moves like Dormammu's thorns.
Built like a scrubquote.
I see teabagging to lvl1 is still a viable of a strategy as ever
I see desk, i click like
What a system. It's like Skullgirls, but with no thought put into it!
CloneHat how so?
Skullgirls' Infinite Prevention System allows bursting if any one button or move is repeated too many times in the combo. This game bursts you out only if one specific button is repeated, which allows for infinites like Spiderman's Web Ball + Reality Stone. It seems like they tried but it doesn't have much thought in it, so it can still be abused and comes off half assed.
Both systems are garbage.
Lava Sharknado how?
Skullgirls is lame lol. No one cares about that game, let it r.i.p.
Must have been one helluva fun scientific ride. Cool beans.
Stand users will hate this one.
pupkins000 GOD THIS JOJOKE HELLA LOWKEY
Holy shit is this relating to how in heritage for the Future you can do that super move that allows your stand to do whatever you input on the super flash screen, resulting in 30 hit L attack combos
KONO POWA
gunna be honest; think you put a whole lot more work into figuring out what this was than they did in putting it in
like; someone working on the game just realized how easy a one button infinite was with some of the stones and threw this in with everyone agreeing "yeah sure why not"
yeah this kind of slap dash design is pretty annoying.
you act like this is a new thing. people are gonna find infinites, and they're likely gonna get patched out. have you played any of the old vs games? they are significantly more broken than this. Yeah they're really old, but mechanically this sort of thing is an inevitability in a game like this. big stupid combo are fun, homie. The way I see it you have two ends of a combo spectrum; one end is super restrictive a la SFV and the other is almost completely open like marvel/skull girls. it comes down to preference and I don't see why every comment on a marvel video is from some fucking armchair combo theorist.
fartslash CHARIGGEEEERED
fartslash so they went far enough to prevent LP spam but did nothing to prevent infinite combos which don't rely on LP. If infinite combos didn't matter they wouldn't have added the lp spam combo breaker literally any armchair theorist can see that
Amazing work as always
What if the number 20 only applies to jabs and other buttons and specials make the opponent flip out at higher numbers?
that still doesn't really sound all that good. Honestly there needs to be a universal number tied to all of the moves.
1. It would be easier to track over all.
2. With that universal number you can plan a reset meta game behind it, making for some added depth.
Oh no, I'm not suggesting it should be implemented. I'm saying in his testing, desk was fixated on the number 20, because that's the amount of jabs that trigger the opponent to flip out. What he didn't test is if other moves cause the opponent to flip out at a higher number.
ShoRyuBarbie Spiderman's infinite is a true infinite that can be repeated. I've seen a video of 999 hits. Specials, at least, do not have a limit.
I see, thanks. Nice avatar, btw.
@ShoRyuBarbie Ah I see, my fault. I thought you were suggesting an implementation of a system like that. However just from the example of Spiderman's Web of Reality infinite it shows that atleast for special moves and gem use do not have that number limit. So i doubt any of the other moves will cause a flip out.
Desk, I've always been amazed with your videos. Music is good too. Do you not have a tournament desire? Apologies if this is a question that gets asked to much. I rarely click on your vids.
Edit: I rarely click to avoid burn out. I ruined combo videos for myself back in the day. Can only take them in small doses.
Wondering if Capcom will patch it since they see so many videos of this now.
Someone hire this guy as a game developer /tester!!!
The background theme is msh vs sf m bison
Amazingly informative video ty for the post
I definitely prefer having only L.P have the limit. Gives more options without needlessly gating things. Now if something comes up as supremely broken they can patch that out without limiting people initially. MvC3's issue was that Capcom couldn't patch it after the REALLY broken stuff got discovered.
These themes making me miss having Marvel vs Street fighter.
NOT TOO SHABBY.
COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA! COMIN' AT YA!
I see all these comments about how the game is bad and I think that they have come from people were never touched it, I've tried this game recently and its actually reminiscent of TVC, they just nerfed fire combos and you can broque as much as you want
Do you know how/if it applies when character switches are involved? I could see at least 3 possibilities: 1) the two characters share a single lp count; 2) they have independent lp counts that persist (e.g., if you switch twice); 3) the lp count resets at switch. Any chance I could convince you to test it? :) Keep up the great work!
Jef Pearlman check episodes 1&2
Thanks--I totally forgot his previous testing included that.
Oh, and meant to add, in case anyone else wants to know without counting (he doesn't have the counter in the first two videos): it appears to be #1: they share a single lp count.
kinda feel like the stone usage (infinity surge) need some sort cooldown or limit. The concept is fun but looked underdeveloped.
desk i need to ask: When spidey did the crawler assault iron man mini flipped out, THAT is something that needs solving because Im doing simplified versions of combos that cause a mini flip out whereas i see huge more complicated versions NOT flip out and it drives me crazy.
supers don't have the same properties as they did in marvel 3. there isn't guaranteed hitstun anymore. they will flip out of dante's super if the combo is too long also. I agree its dumb but that's how they designed the properties of the supers in this game
i think i saw a video relating hit-stun deterioration to damage, so if your simple combo does a lot of damage before crawler assault that might be the reason they flip?! other that that i think the height you hit also interferes
the game definitely uses hitstun deterioration. if you wanna extend already very long combos it's best to add moves with a trap status or use hypers that have non-interactable cinematics which means lvl3 for the most part.
or you can just skip all of that and use Power Gem. it adds a ton of hit stun to all of your moves. and since this game only tracks Lp it means the second you find a team that can do a loop with Hp, Hk, or Lk the opponent is going to be stuck in Infinite Central.
+Lintlikr1 I hope they fix that with a patch I believe the same thing happens in either MSH or MSHvSF, I know I'm old.😞
OOO something to bridge the gap between mvci and umvc3
first thing you do when any marvel drops is figure out the engine so you can break the fuck out the game with infinites and one touch deaths.
2:52 I want Chun and cpt MAHVEL BABY to do this to me so badly...
I pretty sure scaling has to do with damage being out-put
So no cheese to win basically. I see thats fine
Nah its stopping just one very specific type of cheese.
Wait until he finds out about the hitstun-reset glitch....
I feel like at some point, I used the Time (? the green one) Gem's storm, where you can link anything into anything, and made somebody do the flip out combo break with 20x HP (because sometimes I don't feel like trying when I combo), which, if I'm remembering correctly, doesn't fit with the conclusion in the video.
Did they really flip out, or did the hitstun deterioration just get low enough that you could no longer chain HPs? The video does show a combo with 20+ HPs after all
metaXzero Dunno, but now that you mention it that's very possible. Have to test it for myself.
I bet it's there for those reasons and Morrigan clone super if it's in this game.
It is
It is but its not nearly as broken and is scaled hard meter and life wise.
Almost had an epletical attack
Anyone who's complaining about the infinites in vs games past is a helluva hypocrite if you got into this game because of the competitive fighting seen
Personally I think having the 20x rule to everything would defeat the purpose of Marvel as a whole, which is to do crazy BS. But I do see why it would and why people would want it to be implemented
There's still plenty of crazy BS that doesn't require 20 of any one move.
SentsuizanXS Agreed, but I can see why some people would want a rule like this
What I'm saying is having a 20x rule on every attack doesn't mean the crazy BS goes away.
I like this rule. It makes sense. I mean arbitrary rules like this are usually bad for games but there was no other good option here.
you... sure about that? it's not that hard to just make lp rapid fire for only 3 hits. boom... problem solved.
Ninja The thing about that is that people will sometimes mash like 3 times to hit confirm into a combo. If you wanted a more skill based/reactionary combo game sure, add that, but if you want purely an infinite prevention system this seems to the way to go.
3 l.p in marvel...nah kid lol. That'd be an awful system. 20 lp makes sense because of how easy it is to do an infinite with the game's systems plus it doesn't interfere with general gameplay.
i think you guys are a little confused. When i said Lp should only rapid fire for 3 hits I wasn't suggesting that after 3 hits the opponent would flip out of the combo. I was suggesting that you could only press Lp 3 times in a row before your character would go into a brief recovery. This would beat the infinites caused by Gem Storms like Space, and Soul. As for the Time Gem the recovery of lpx3 would not be cancel-able during Time Gem's Storm.
Siddmasher there is ways to balance a game so you don't need this awkward system where you have to keep track in your head just how many Lps you have done in a combo. And if you do want to have an Infinite Protection System, then it should cover everything and not just Light Punch.
Jamaal Curry, In the last marvel games you could only rapid fire Light attacks up to 4 times, 5 if you have the opponent in the corner. Pushback and hitstun decay made it impossible to do infinites from just jabbing.
jab infinite are only possible in this game because of stones and how freeform the game's systems are having a solid wall is better than having a loose limitation. Noone is going to freestyle their way into light punches while doing an actual combo, competitively speaking it'll either be a practiced situation or mashing that has you hit the limit in a real match.
Reality web ball!
Reality stone
Teabag @ 00:22 - 00:23 & 02:35 :)
dropping out of supers seems SO BAD
Let’s be real if any MvC should have infinites it should be infinite because of the combo switch/break feature. Makes me wish capcom put a combo break in UMvC3
Too bad the one infinite in the game right now actually prevents the switch.
They did, it's called not getting hit.
DAT REVERZE Great advice. Just play perfectly, and the game will be competently designed. What great advice
which one?
You should be a fighting game professor in some college or something.
Aaaand it's the auto combo button and they gotta appeal to those scrubs
Oh no! Not something that can be turned off by "Hardcore players" but still used by people who are "scrubs" and new to the genre! Whatever shall we do!? It's toxic people like you that hinder the FGC's growth and just donwright piss me off to no trivial end.
For Clarification I don't use them, I just think there should be some sort of restriction on using them, at least in ranked matches or something. I have lost to very few people who use auto combo/super, but I have run into a lot of actually good players who don't solely use it, they just have it on for mashing convenience in scrambles and I don't know an answer to it yet!
Then I saw that they have a lot more potential out of auto combos thanks to Desk's awesome tech, but they likely won't be learning tech if they are auto combo warriors anyway? Not sure, there was a lot of talk about this potentially being an issue with the game before launch, I'm playing it a lot though so nothing against the game or desk, just people who refuse to learn actual combos I Guess.
One of my first fighters that I played when getting into this genre was P4A (Persona 4 Arena if you're not sure) This game also features an auto-combo system. The difference is, in this game, depending on who you are, your combos can extend past the AC into a normal BnB, on top of that, doing the first 3 moves of an auto-combo actually grants extra meter in P4AU.
In my opinion of MvCI so far, the mashing will die down once players learn, or just get through the leagues into the higher leagues, where that won't be as prevalent. For jabs though, it is best, in my opinion, to just read the jab pressure and hit them with a higher priority move (I think MvCI has a concept of move priority anywho) Or if your character has projectiles, just hit them with something like that.
Let me be honest for a second, fighting games are one of the hardest genres to get into because of the steep learning curve and the amount of time required. This is why I'm all-for things like auto-combos, for it allows even new players to, some extent, enjoy the game. If they're enjoying what they're playing, they might stick around and try to actually LEARN the game. Combos, inputs, resets, tech, all of it. I think AC's are a super good gateway for that type of stuff, and the combos aren't crazy optimized, compared to the damage you would be getting, so this adds further incentive to cave and learn "real combos."
These are my thoughts on it, I do realize our opinions will probably still differ, but I hope this makes sense to you.
Freddie Wompton Honestly I agree for the most part, recently playing tekken 7 and sf5 online matches pop up way quicker in mvci so that could be part of the reason, or just cause it's still fresh. Still learning to control my sodium levels haha. Thanks for the input
No problem man. Don't worry, it happens to all of us. Lord knows I'm not about to claim I am free from salt lol.
infinites music is so bad, desk even has to use the good old cps music 🤘
Mugen kkkk
is this game being played? i hope not lel
Bad game design: The Game
MindGame Arcade so taking away boring ass infinites which plagued mvc3 is bad game design?
lol
Arthur Feitosa WEB BALL REALITY STONE WEB BALL REALITY STONE WEB BALL REALITY STONE WEB BALL REALITY STONE WEB BALL REALITY STONE WEB BALL REALITY STONE WEB BALL REALITY STONE WEB BALL REALITY STONE WEB BALL REALITY STONE WEB BALL REALITY STONE
You mean the same boring ass infinites that have been in every VS game? That doesn't change much. Infinite is still trash.
kekon3 Counter switch. You start the match with one bar already, if you let one character die because of this infinite it's not the game fault but yours.
well since the infinite prevention system is only limited to the Light Punch Button and not all of the other moves... kinda yeah.
I do remember Chris G stating that this game did have infinite protection so to see this slap dash attempt at it is kinda insulting. Not to mention that yes there are multiple cases of poor game design when it comes to this game.
what a lame system
This game is ass point blank too easy for scrub to find cheap boring ways to win
What about special moves done with the lp button ? Is the spiderman infinite done with lp web ball ?
Great