Thats happened a few times ..... The Renault 5 Renault's best selling car of the 70's was designed by a young apprentice in his lunch breaks as a hobby was basically a re skinned renault 4 . Bosses saw it and put it into production.
The double arrow, despite the slander, is proven to be an instant classic, because other national railways around Europe and the rest of the world took cues from the BR logo's "arrow" concept
For whatever problems the Tube and the Rail have, the roundel and the double arrow are instantly recognisable symbols. They are marvels of simple but effective design.
Although the Conservatives were against nationalisation, Winston Churchill was personally supportive. WW1 showed how inefficient it was having so many separate companies and there were very serious supporters of full nationalisation in 1918, Churchill and David Lloyd George being among them. The Ways and Communications Bill of 1919 actually included powers of State purchase, but Andrew Bonar Law opposed it and it was dropped from the Bill. The 1923 grouping was a compromise. The 1919 Bill would have included nationalisation of the Metropolitan Railway and UERL, so it's possible something like the London Passenger Transport Board could have happened a decade earlier.
Attlee's nationalisation of nearly 20% of the UK economy nearly bankrupted the country, and left no money available for the investment those industries desperately needed. Having said that, rail was on its knees after WWII and it's doubtful it could have continued as a private enterprise.
@@DrFod He left office with the country completely free from debt, unemployment and built thousands of houses. Plus an NHS service that was the envy of the world. All on a post war budget.
@@Redf322whatever he did, it wasn’t ’free of debt’, as the the national accounts well show. Or indeed Wikipedia, en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_British_national_debt
@@DrFodwhat metric are you using to say he bankrupted the country? After the war the new labour government reduced the debt to gdp ratio by a good third, and interest payments fell, while injecting huge amount of reconstruction funds. There’s no way in which you can characterise the British state as more bankrupt in ‘51 than ‘45
My father was deputy company secretary of British Rail in the 1980s when BR started to reuse the "ferret and dartboard" on some trains, including some in Scotland. The BRB received a letter written in Gaelic clearly about it. Someone passed it to Dad who returned it to sender asking for it to be written in English. It turned out to be a complaint from the Office of Lord Lyon King of Arms (senior herald in Scotland) saying they could not use it in Scotland as it was heraldic and he had not approved it. The reason this was passed to Dad was that he was a lawyer, educated in Scotland and an expert on heraldry. Dad pointed out that the badge had been used many years earlier and quoted the section of Scottish Law which basically meant - too late to complain. They did not write back. After retiring, Dad worked part time at the College of Arms for the Clarenceaux King of Arms as a researcher.
@@gentuxable To be honest I don't know the order in which they were designed. At the 50th anniversary of the logo and the "yellow" trains there was an exhibition on the history and design of the NS logo, there are several interesting videos on YT about that exhibition.
I particularly like how it took someone that wasn't a designer - and ultimately someone who the design would directly affect, the general public - to create something so influential. That plus the original Rail Alphabet was a brilliant combination in brand identity
Rail Alphabet - designed by Jock Kinneir and Margaret Calvert - the same people behind the Transport typeface seen on road signs across the UK, with a similar design philosophy, but intended to be visible to pedestrians rather than motorists. There are also a couple of spin-offs: * New Rail Alphabet, a digitised version created in 2009 by Henrik Kubel of A2/SW/HK in close collaboration with Margaret Calvert, which features six weights: off white, white, light, medium, bold and black, with non-aligning numerals, corresponding italics and a set of Eastern European characters. * Rail Alphabet 2, commissioned by Network Rail in 2020, and designed by Margaret Calvert and Henrik Kubel (so, basically, a variation of their earlier New Rail Alphabet). This version includes lighter versions of the lettering as well as italics for signage along with accompanying versions for use in printed matter and online. The redesign also includes new pictograms to depict services and facilities which did not exist in the 1960s when the original typeface was conceived - such as gender neutral toilets and vaping areas. NR initially announced it would be introduced at all stations they manage, replacing Brunel, as well as in corporate communications, but that ambition has subsequently grown, as GBR will use it as their corporate signage, replacing the patchwork of post-privatisation fonts.
As US college students in 1970, my roommate and I spent two weeks in Britain and Scotland, travelling almost everywhere by train (We were too young to rent a car, and intimidated by driving on the opposite side of the road. Also too impecunious.). The BR symbol represented fast, (mostly) comfortable and cheap transport that could take us almost anywhere. For us its design epitomized the modern and forward-looking Great Britain of Twiggy, the Beatles, Mary Quant and the like. As did the iconic map of London's Underground, a copy of which I kept as a wall decoration for almost 20 years. For those snickering or guffawing at the romantic ideas we ascribed to British Rail, remember the state of US railroads in the '70s!
As many of you know, my long career has been in the railway industry. When I first saw the BR logo in the mid 1980s during my first visit to the UK, it reminded me of a typical railway interlocking, with a crossover and switch points connecting the two tracks, in addition to arrows showing the directions trains move in the UK, for the most part left-hand running.
Most crossovers are trailing anyway, so it's even representative technically! If you cut the sidings off it turns into something much more like a fascist symbol, so lets hope nobody tries to rationalise it...
@@LancashireLass And the Calvert font of the Tyne and Wear metro totems... though I'm not such a fan of that font for way-finding signs. The BR font does it's job so well you don't even notice it.
There's something mesmerising about the symbol, you immediately know what it means, it's classic but futuristic at the same time. Thanks Jago, that was fascinating railway history. 😊
Designing the signs for Gatwick Airport in the 1950s was the first project for Margaret Calvert and Jock Kinneir. Yellow/black airport signs and use of pictograms, now used worldwide She later designed Rail Alphabet used by BR. I think the arrows of indecision is the only thing she didn't design!
I’ve read a description of the old BR lion and wheel logo as “cat on a mangle”. Without the politics around the double arrow, it is very effective as a symbol. Instantly recognizable, clean lined, and unambiguous, all things you want in congested urban spaces where there is a lot to visually absorb and differentiate.
I, from Michigan in the USA (the automobile capital of the world, at least it was) have known what this symbol meant from even my very earliest years, long before I cared even remotely about trains. Yes, that logo is absolutely iconic. I had always wondered where it came from, so great video!
My personal favourite is the totem. There's a reason people love to collect the station signs. It's a timeless design, and it would have looked amazing on locomotives, too.
The Hot Dog works and it's a fine logo, but it doesn't say "railroad." The basic shape could be used for anything. I wouldn't mind it being revived and put on new railway things, though.
Some of our rail replacement buses have it on their digital blinds. Even if you don't read English, you know what the bus is there for. I much approve. Others of our buses have a picture that is supposed to look like someone standing on a platform, by a train. To me it looks like a set of gallows that are... in use. Which probably describes how the passengers are feeling. We won't talk about the blind that says "Choo Choo" in case I might swear. I think the Double Arrow is a perfect symbol. I always thought that it showed the double track for up and down, but also a sort of electric spark to suggest the electrification of the modern railway. It would be a sad day to lose it. Especially if it were superseded by the Hangman's Despair.
My Dad was a railwayman and one of the books that fascinated me as a child and I've kept hold of is a 1986 book, British Rail Design, done in conjunction with the Danish Design Council. It goes through the whole brand identity they'd developed - from the station signs & departure boards to the new Red Star Parcels brand, via the refreshment carts and the new seats being used in the Mk IV coaches. Well worth a read if you can find it
Truly iconic logo and almost the perfect example. Still triggers the same small bump in my heart rate as it did in my childhood. It still brings about a hope of travelling on a train, or even just seeing one. I see it every day on my keyring.
The BR Corporate Identity Manual and all that stemmed from it represent some of the finest consistent and cohesive branding… ever. Love this historical context for the Double Arrow and Rail Alphabet - design classics indeed! Great video as always, Jago!
I’ve always imagined (I’m 48 and live in UK) the BR logo representing the interlinked lines meeting and signifying a networked rail system. So I learned something today that it is two arrows passing… goes to show how different people interpret visuals in their own way. Fascinating video, thanks!
You have corrected a misunderstanding I had about the double arrow logo. I was convinced that the logo had been designed and initially used specifically for electrified rail. The zigzag additionally representing a spark. Only later being rolled out across the rest of the BR system because it had been successful in that role. Maybe I thought that because my earliest years of rail travel were mostly on the Waterloo-Bournemouth line which was, at the time, being electrified. And the Waterloo-Portsmouth line which had long been electrified.
I remember being pleased when I realised the logo was correct in showing that trains in the UK, like the cars on its roads, drive on the left. (As do the trains in France, incidentally.)
I recall in Technical/Engineering Drawing 'O' Level having this, and the British Airways "Speedbird" designs as some of our first introductions to the "art" of technical design. One of the most fascinating aspects I noted back then is how the ends of the arrow heads are just a little bit larger than at their bases, connected to the parallel lines. It's almost impossible to spot, but it makes the extenfed up and down diagonals spread slightly toward their tips, which adds a tiny bit of "energy" in some sense to the design. Anyway, as an autistic child with nerd tendencies, armed with a ruler and felt tips, I then proceeded to cover my bedroom walls in multitudes of examples of the Double Arrow, the Speedbird and additionally the logo for the Cray X-MP supercomputer, and the title for the film Close Encounters of The Third Kind ... I expect the latter two were partly due to a sudden love of rounded squishy typefaces :) And as someone below also said, all over my school exercise books... tho in the mid 80s this [and I still have most of my exercise books to bear witness to this migration] was usurped by the Frankie Goes to Hollywood logo... because basically, typefaces aside, it seemed that I ultimately just liked logos with interesting pointy angles - but the BR logo is where it likely started :)
One thing to mention, the only Steam engines to have ever been given the British Rail symbol, were the locos of the Vale of Rheidol Railway till the sale to the private sector of 88, so in a way, BR steam OFFICIALLY ended with them.
That's weird I was thinking about that exact same advert, while I was watching this vid, came down her ego comment about something else and saw your remark!
This is an interesting and educational clip. The challenge with logos (British Rail, swastika, Mercedes star) versues wordmarques (Boots, Beatles, Rolls-Royce) is that the former is more likely to require more encounters with and a greater understanding of its meaning before it becomes lodged in one's long term memory. Without frequent encounters one might forget what the logo stands for. With wordmarques there is no need to struggle with identifying who it represents, thus making it easier to associate values with it. They both have their strengths, though uniqueness and simplicity of design coupled with a concise and engaging strapline/proposition determine their effectiveness.
As a child I uses to draw the symbol on all my school books etc. I loved trains (still do) so I drew many locomotives over the years, so I feel I have a real nostalgic affinity with the BR logo. Interestingly (or not), I always thought the symbol represented tracks and sets of points rather than two arrows. Thanks, I really enjoyed the video (as always!)
Our wedding theme in 2016 was "The Golden Age of Travel" and cardboard cut outs of our guests' names were presented in the 'hot dog' and were fixed onto an elongated bulldog clip pole which were less successfully mounted into a Ferrero Rocher! They kind of melted a bit...
The 'Double Arrow' logo was instrumental in starting my design career 27 years ago, as was the Jordan 'Jumpman' logo and a local rock band 'Freeway Limit' (whom my uncle was lead singer and bassist). Thanks for this video, really enjoyed it. Lee
Also reminiscent of gender symbols in biology, and now in more general use with unisex extensions. So could have been a mixed message! The double arrow is more distinctive.
Quite a fitting video as I was at the Didcot Railway Centre this week and spent a long time admiring the imagery on the engines. I always thought the BR symbol represented a set of track points.
As usual I enjoyed this production immensely. The history of the logos i found fascinating as a designer and signwriter of fifty plus years duration. Australian logos differ between the six states and two territories. The two arrows logo has been adopted here in some of the states I'm sure with the appropriate permission. I have always surmised this portrayed sets of points, reflecting the ability for the rail network to travel far and wide for the commuting public and freight forwarders. Now I accept correctly that it depicts trains moving in two different directions. Thanks for all your enthusiastic efforts that are most educational and entertaining. You're a good dear Jago!
Glasgow electrification sign brought back memories I forgot I had. I was 6 and I remembered getting on an electric train for the first time and being able to look out the front of the Blue train. I have been hooked ever since.
That was a fascinating delve into history. Being of mature years I was an avid trainspotter as a lad and find it curious how change occurs but is often unnoticed. The older designs were definitely more classic, I do feel simplistic often devalues a product but have to agree the roundel, double arrows and the 'tick' are all immediately recognisable.
Ashington, Northumberland just had its double arrow sign installed yesterday at it's soon to be reopening Blyth and Tyne line. One of Beachings cuts...
8:18 - The "interlinked circles and an arrow" logo is nearly identical to the contemporary logo of Gray Coach Lines (a Canadian inter-city bus company, now defunct).
Even though I’ve never lived in the UK, I love the BR logo. It’s ionic, simple, and honestly somewhat perfect for what it does. With GBR taking over the railways, it’s nice to see this logo remain relevant and important into the future. Here in Canada we also have some very iconic railway logos. The CN “snake” is probably the best example, having been introduced in the 1960s, CN continues to use this logo even to this day. There’s also the GO Transit logo, designed by the same firm that made the CN logo. This logo is iconic to anyone who lives in Southern Ontario and is used in a manner quite similar to the BR logo. VIA Rail also has an iconic logo too.
Watching to your videos and listening to your voice is the most Zen thing that anyone can do after a hard day. I am not even a train buff, but I do like quality. Well done Jago.
As much as i love classical architecture and style there’s something about mid-century modern when it comes to logos that just makes sense the Double Arrow and the Hot Dog come to mind. Greetings from the States.
The logo first came to my attention and made sense to me when it was used in the TV ads for Intercity as the two arrows joined with the sound of a train's hooter.... "hurr-harr", something I'd expected to pop up in this video. But it's a great video on how design can be so powerful in cementing a concept and unifying disperate elements. Cheers mate!
Thanks Jago, another interesting thing learnt. Mention of the hotdog brought a smile. The main logo reminds me of a BR sandwich with all the bits hanging out !
Thoroughly enjoyable as always! I know you do venture out of the 'Smoke' occasionally (Knaresborough, York), and my local oddity, the Stourbridge Town Branch, is surely crying out to be featured!
Great video. for non designers, this is a great education in how the right answer, the simplest most long lived answer isn’t the easiest one to get to or even self evident. Simple isn’t simple
The odd thing is, the BR logo I remember from my childhood is none of those you cover (it was more 'heraldic'/old-fashioned). I'm starting to wonder if I've made it up! Another odd thing that just occurs to me is that, although the double arrow sign is now nearly universally used to mean 'railway station' - and not just in Britain - the 'standard' road sign for 'train' is still a cartoon depiction of a steam engine, including smoke! And yet you have to be well over 60 to have any memory of regular steam-hauled train services. A child born in the 21st century, who may never have seen a steam engine, sees that sign and knows it means 'level crossing' - despite it looking radically unlike any train that child has ever seen!
The steam train on the roadsigns is the same reason that the road traffic camera is a box camera with bellows on the front - despite that camera design not being in use for 100 years or more. Its because its instantly recognisable as to what it is. A simplified drawn version of a DMU or loco we use today would basically be a box with wheels - looking like a bus or a coach or a truck or a train or a mobile library. The steam train (and the box camera with bellows) is totally on purpose to remove any confusion. Its train, and always will be in the eyes of anyone whos looked at a kids book involving trains!
@@jameshodgetts7541 good point, but I'm not convinced about the camera. Despite my scepticism about the train sign, I will accept that the majority of kids know what a steam engine looks like. But who on earth sees the old camera with bellows and thinks "ah ha, camera!". I'm 70 and I've never seen one of those cameras outside a museum. My grandkids have probably never even seen a 'proper' camera in real life - they both have phones, to them a camera is an app!
@@WyvernYT I'm not sure they even know what a disc is! Everything just magically uses the 'cloud' now. I reminded them that they should periodically back up their phones and they looked at me as if I was even more senile than I am!
An excellent video as always mate, I honestly love the BR Double Arrow and was drawing it by the time I was a toddler (you know, proper crank and all). It genuinely is a design classic, it symbolises railways in an almost universal language to the point where I have seen in various countries the same logo being used on maps to denote railway stations, now that is an achievement. I had never heard of the "Cycling Lyon" nickname though have heard it's replacement called the "ferret and dartboard" with myself using that term all the time, in my opinion I do think both logos are good with the Cycling Lyon being suited to bigger locomotives, particularly the express locos with the ferret and dartboard suited to anything from the "Austerity" to the 5MT (my personal favourite steamers). As much as I love the double arrow I too have often referred to it as the "arrow of indecision" however if you look back to the late 80s/early 90s "we're getting there" adverts where the logo is formed up of various trains it really makes it clear what it is. Also bonus points for using my home heritage line, the ELR in some of your B-Roll :)
The "Double Arrow" which represents two trains passing each other on a double track railway is registered to the DOP though used by BR is still used today. National Rail stations can use it but privatised TOC can not hence why you don't see it on trains anymore.
Simple, striking, effective, like the Underground/LT roundel. Thankfully despite the constant rebranding and new logos in so many areas, those in charge have appreciated it and resisted the temptation to meddle. Nationwide take note. Amusingly the arrows sometimes got reversed to give "wrong direction" running; the left hand side of Sealink ferry funnels was an example of this.
I'm surprised you didn't mention that the cycling lion always faced forwards on locos. They tried to do this with the ferret and dartboard, but because it was an official heraldic design and they'd only submitted the left-facing one, they were told they couldn't do right-facing ones (yet still some locos had right-facing ones, at least for a time). This wasn't an issue with diesels, as there wasn't a specific "forwards". The double arrows always appeared with the top arrow facing right, except for Sealink ships, where the top arrow faced the direction of the bow of the ship (aka "forwards", as per the earlier designs).
This reminds me of the US military rule, "The flag is never in retreat." They have it mirrored on the right side of vehicles. Some other countries with asymmetrical flags have the same rule, but not all.
A timeless design classic. Some great railway footage on this video and I love all the very young faces peering out of the windows of the blue/grey DEMU thumper unit toward the end of this video. I think a steam loco at the Vale of Rheidol should be painted into rail blue with the white double arrow. Perhaps even a standard gauge steam loco should be done as well as in another universe, the Modernisation Plan was different and steam survived into the early 1980s....
The Sealink double-arrow goes the other way (top arrow pointing left). There's an example in the video, on the ship's funnel. I bought what I thought was a BR corporate shirt on eBay, but it turned out to be the Sealink variety. I still wear it at the heritage railway I volunteer at - not many people notice!
I worked at DRU as a designer a few years before it was absorbed into another company. It was a very small outfit by that time and mostly was comprised of architects. Much of the work (design and architecture) was for railway/underground stations both in Britain and abroad.
Yes and again a brilliant expose, even I as a person living in Ireland immediately recognise this, it’s as if it’s embedded in my unconscious somewhere! This in my view is an exceptional video, keep up your great and entertaining work 👌
The uniformity of british signs always makes me happy. In London you can always distinguish the National Rail from the Underground from buses from the overground from the DLR even at a distance. One of the things that Britain has actually done really well!
Superb logo. Absolute timeless. Sydney public transport (until it was mostly gutted by privatisation) had a similar logo. It was colloquially called the L7. Wags said it was an abbreviation of Late, 7 days a week 😂.
A neat stylistic feature is that the upper and lower 'tails' actually flare outwards slightly. This is to correct perspective when viewed from the side, preventing them from seemingly shrinking as they reach the tips.
8:18 looks like we dodged a bullet there. The double-arrow is a genuine design classic, but that two-circles-plus-arrow nonsense looks like the familiar male symbol penetrating a hole. The people who come up with logo nicknames like "hotdog" and "ferret and dartboard" would surely have had a field day with that.
The lion in the first design looked emaciated, so it was sometimes called the Starving Lion. Given that Britain still had rationing at the time, it was probably not inappropriate.
This has to be THE classic uk logo. With Margaret Calvert and Jock Kinners' typeface, it is exactly how to create a great brand. Such a shame we don't do it properly now. Although Jagos logo is memorable😊
I'm old enough to remember the logo being introduced. British Rail adverts ended with the two halves of the logo (top and bottom) joining up to the sound of a two-tone locomotive horn. "Let the train take the strain" (If one arrives on time, or at all).
Literally one of the best examples of logos that does not have text at all. Only this and the old Twitter (now sometimes known as X) are the ones I can think of that doesn't have a text version.
We've become so used to the 'Double Arrow' that by deconstructing it, you've caused me to have a peculiar feeling of _Jamais Vu!_ I'm actually Irish, but much of my family are British, so despite constant exposure to the symbol from when I lived in London for much of the '90's, the BR logo, thanks to the railways themselves and also the Sealink ferries, is still capable of giving me warm, fuzzy, nostalgic 'vibes' from travelling to see relations as a kid. Change of course always brings out intransigent instincts, especially as we grow older, so I've no doubt that there's plenty of opposition for one reason or another to the new "Great British Railways". Is there anyone else, though, who is annoyed by that "Great"? The tendency in recent years to throw around the usage "Great British _this_ ", and "Great British _that_ " (as in everything from "Great British Bake~Off" to "Great British Sausage"!) I have to say, really gets up my nose. Let me be clear that, notwithstanding my nationality, I have no difficulty whatever with the concept of Britain as being a 'Great' country - but the casual insousciance with which the word 'Great' is employed in this way implies either an ignorance or a wilful disregard of the actual meaning of the word 'Great' in the context of the country name, which refers to the British island as a whole, in which Scotland & England have united into one political entity. Ireland (or today, only Northern Ireland) too, in some interpretations, but Ireland being an island in its own right, if one is to be _really_ pedantic about it, the term 'United Kingdom' is probably preferable in such cases. I have to concede that this new rail authority is very likely _not_ using 'Great' in this sense of 'Superlatively Good'. Most probably they are simply using the word to signify that the authority will have powers over the railways throughout the whole United Kingdom. Unfortunately though, that other "Britain - F%&k, _Yeah!_ " meaning has become so prevalant, the name of the body will be inevitably tainted, at least in my view. Still, I said that many people will oppose the new body, and especially the name; however it could just be that I'm overly uptight. As such, I shouldn't be surprised either if it turns out that any opposition to the name is merely a fringe concern...
It’s not just iconic in Britain though, I was stunned to see it used as the logo as an interchange to rail services… on the Chongqing Metro! I even joked at the time that Chongqing was so ambitious that it was planning to connect its metro to the British Rail system haha
Superbly well researched and presented as ever Mr Hazzard: greatly appreciated. Concise too - why can't all YT content creators stick to a 10-15 minute maximum duration when it comes to their respective AV output? Re specific post: how chastening it is (again) to witness the reality of a pre-1995, entirely NSNL world. I.e. the starkly relative richesse, sophistication and quality of it all. Yours faithfully John Moser
Am I remembering wrong? There was a time during or after Privatisation the BR logo really took a back seat? I know it remained on the main station sign/pole but it seemed to fade away pretty much everywhere else, even on tickets. It really felt like it was being phased out or a relic. Then it started to come back in full force and you can see it in lots of places. I wonder if Rail Track wanted rid of it before Rail Track was rebranded.
KInnier and Calvert also designed the Transport typeface that's found on every modern road sign too. Two people who have arguably made a very substantial impact on how the country looks today.
I have a badge with the "Ferret and Dartboard" logo on it and have met two older French men who instantly recognised it with nostalgia. One because his dad worked for the SNCF and they used to get a special ticket from/via the SNCF which was recognised by BR for travel around the UK so took all their holidays on BR trains. (I forgot what the other guy said, sorry).
It is conventional to show the logo as if in a flag,with the flagstaff astern of the flag itself, as would be the case if it were a real flag and there is a following wind. So on the port side of the ship we see the reverse side of the flag
I love how the design submitted was just a sketch made on the way to work
Thats happened a few times ..... The Renault 5 Renault's best selling car of the 70's was designed by a young apprentice in his lunch breaks as a hobby was basically a re skinned renault 4 .
Bosses saw it and put it into production.
The simplest of ideas often are the best,
Paxton's design for The Crystal Palace was sketched in pen and ink on blotting paper.
I 'heart' NY logo, also an immediate thought. the opposite of an elephant designed by committee (ferret, dartboard...)
I hope it was on the back of paper napkin as well.
"The cycling Lion" sounds like a pub
The ferret and wheel is a great name for a pub.
I used to draw it all over my schoolbooks etc... I's a fascinating shape and somehow captured a young mind... I still doodle it occasionally..
Meanwhile, most of the boys made doodles that looked more like the logo they ended up not taking.
@@Eddyspeeder 🚂🚂🚂
Haha like that weird S thing
Now that you mention it, so did I.
Do tell me you proved your teachers wrong and became a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist!
The double arrow, despite the slander, is proven to be an instant classic, because other national railways around Europe and the rest of the world took cues from the BR logo's "arrow" concept
National Bus also used an arrow, made from two upper case NS.
I always heard it called the "crows feet" too growing up.
Whenever I see it I think of hearing one of those train sirens/hooters going off.
It's a lazy design. Looking from the outside in, I didn't know what the hell it was.
Nederlandse Spoorwegen and Iarnród Éireann logo definitely inspired by the BR logo.
For whatever problems the Tube and the Rail have, the roundel and the double arrow are instantly recognisable symbols. They are marvels of simple but effective design.
Although the Conservatives were against nationalisation, Winston Churchill was personally supportive. WW1 showed how inefficient it was having so many separate companies and there were very serious supporters of full nationalisation in 1918, Churchill and David Lloyd George being among them. The Ways and Communications Bill of 1919 actually included powers of State purchase, but Andrew Bonar Law opposed it and it was dropped from the Bill. The 1923 grouping was a compromise. The 1919 Bill would have included nationalisation of the Metropolitan Railway and UERL, so it's possible something like the London Passenger Transport Board could have happened a decade earlier.
Attlee's nationalisation of nearly 20% of the UK economy nearly bankrupted the country, and left no money available for the investment those industries desperately needed. Having said that, rail was on its knees after WWII and it's doubtful it could have continued as a private enterprise.
@@DrFod He left office with the country completely free from debt, unemployment and built thousands of houses. Plus an NHS service that was the envy of the world. All on a post war budget.
@@DrFod Uh...the country was already de facto bankrupt when Atlee came to power. His government was the perfect example of Keynesian policies working
@@Redf322whatever he did, it wasn’t ’free of debt’, as the the national accounts well show. Or indeed Wikipedia, en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_British_national_debt
@@DrFodwhat metric are you using to say he bankrupted the country?
After the war the new labour government reduced the debt to gdp ratio by a good third, and interest payments fell, while injecting huge amount of reconstruction funds. There’s no way in which you can characterise the British state as more bankrupt in ‘51 than ‘45
My father was deputy company secretary of British Rail in the 1980s when BR started to reuse the "ferret and dartboard" on some trains, including some in Scotland. The BRB received a letter written in Gaelic clearly about it. Someone passed it to Dad who returned it to sender asking for it to be written in English. It turned out to be a complaint from the Office of Lord Lyon King of Arms (senior herald in Scotland) saying they could not use it in Scotland as it was heraldic and he had not approved it. The reason this was passed to Dad was that he was a lawyer, educated in Scotland and an expert on heraldry. Dad pointed out that the badge had been used many years earlier and quoted the section of Scottish Law which basically meant - too late to complain. They did not write back. After retiring, Dad worked part time at the College of Arms for the Clarenceaux King of Arms as a researcher.
@@redcuillin Someone should write a musical about this argument. It could be called "The Lyon King". Couldn't fail. ;)
@@stephenbrasher An iconic number in it could be called, 'The Lyon Sleeps Tonight.'
This logo was one of the inspirations for the logo of the Dutch railways. That too is still in use.
Made me think of the NS (Dutch National Railways) logo straight away✌🏻. They both are clearly working 👍🏻. 👋🏻from 🇳🇱.
I'm Irish; I love both the BR and NS logos.
Then Swiss railways have a logo that looks like someone took NS and put the flag into it.
And Hong Kong too (KCR)
@@gentuxable To be honest I don't know the order in which they were designed. At the 50th anniversary of the logo and the "yellow" trains there was an exhibition on the history and design of the NS logo, there are several interesting videos on YT about that exhibition.
I particularly like how it took someone that wasn't a designer - and ultimately someone who the design would directly affect, the general public - to create something so influential.
That plus the original Rail Alphabet was a brilliant combination in brand identity
Rail Alphabet - designed by Jock Kinneir and Margaret Calvert - the same people behind the Transport typeface seen on road signs across the UK, with a similar design philosophy, but intended to be visible to pedestrians rather than motorists. There are also a couple of spin-offs:
* New Rail Alphabet, a digitised version created in 2009 by Henrik Kubel of A2/SW/HK in close collaboration with Margaret Calvert, which features six weights: off white, white, light, medium, bold and black, with non-aligning numerals, corresponding italics and a set of Eastern European characters.
* Rail Alphabet 2, commissioned by Network Rail in 2020, and designed by Margaret Calvert and Henrik Kubel (so, basically, a variation of their earlier New Rail Alphabet). This version includes lighter versions of the lettering as well as italics for signage along with accompanying versions for use in printed matter and online. The redesign also includes new pictograms to depict services and facilities which did not exist in the 1960s when the original typeface was conceived - such as gender neutral toilets and vaping areas. NR initially announced it would be introduced at all stations they manage, replacing Brunel, as well as in corporate communications, but that ambition has subsequently grown, as GBR will use it as their corporate signage, replacing the patchwork of post-privatisation fonts.
Similar to the guy who designed the London Underground map, he was a draftsman, not a graphic designer.
As US college students in 1970, my roommate and I spent two weeks in Britain and Scotland, travelling almost everywhere by train (We were too young to rent a car, and intimidated by driving on the opposite side of the road. Also too impecunious.). The BR symbol represented fast, (mostly) comfortable and cheap transport that could take us almost anywhere. For us its design epitomized the modern and forward-looking Great Britain of Twiggy, the Beatles, Mary Quant and the like. As did the iconic map of London's Underground, a copy of which I kept as a wall decoration for almost 20 years. For those snickering or guffawing at the romantic ideas we ascribed to British Rail, remember the state of US railroads in the '70s!
It's an absolute masterpiece of logo design. It's so simple a toddler can draw it.
Simplicity though isn't perhaps the first thing one thinks of when it comes to railways 😂
As many of you know, my long career has been in the railway industry. When I first saw the BR logo in the mid 1980s during my first visit to the UK, it reminded me of a typical railway interlocking, with a crossover and switch points connecting the two tracks, in addition to arrows showing the directions trains move in the UK, for the most part left-hand running.
Most crossovers are trailing anyway, so it's even representative technically! If you cut the sidings off it turns into something much more like a fascist symbol, so lets hope nobody tries to rationalise it...
When I left my home in Surrey in '66 for Canada all the trains were green. On my first visit back in July 1970, they were all blue!
So were the people that had to commute on them!
Sort of a dirty, grimy blue for the most part.
As well as the Rail Alphabet, Margaret Calvert and Jock Kinneir designed the British road signage system and the Transport font used on road signs.
Thankyou, I thought she sounded familiar.
@@LancashireLass And the Calvert font of the Tyne and Wear metro totems... though I'm not such a fan of that font for way-finding signs.
The BR font does it's job so well you don't even notice it.
incidentally still used in places like Hong Kong and Cyprus.
Check out the Top Gear tribute James May did for Margaret Calvert who didn't think he was a very good driver! It's in Top Gear series 14 episode 7.
She's the one to blame for classics like *Man Opening Umbrella Ahead* , *Drunk Drivers Ahead* , and *The Final Episode of Z Cars* 😉
There's something mesmerising about the symbol, you immediately know what it means, it's classic but futuristic at the same time. Thanks Jago, that was fascinating railway history. 😊
If you view Gatwick airport rail station from above. The BR logo is on the roof
Publicity advertising the Gatwick airport rail link used to use a modified version of the double arrow to symbolise an aeroplane taking off.
Looks like it could do with a touch up, very cool
Designing the signs for Gatwick Airport in the 1950s was the first project for Margaret Calvert and Jock Kinneir. Yellow/black airport signs and use of pictograms, now used worldwide She later designed Rail Alphabet used by BR. I think the arrows of indecision is the only thing she didn't design!
I’ve read a description of the old BR lion and wheel logo as “cat on a mangle”. Without the politics around the double arrow, it is very effective as a symbol. Instantly recognizable, clean lined, and unambiguous, all things you want in congested urban spaces where there is a lot to visually absorb and differentiate.
Also saw it described as "a flimsy looking lion on a monocycle".
I, from Michigan in the USA (the automobile capital of the world, at least it was) have known what this symbol meant from even my very earliest years, long before I cared even remotely about trains. Yes, that logo is absolutely iconic. I had always wondered where it came from, so great video!
My personal favourite is the totem. There's a reason people love to collect the station signs. It's a timeless design, and it would have looked amazing on locomotives, too.
I've seen the totem design by many stations painted inside the arches of bridges by the stations....
The totem sets off the windows of a BR coach, but overall, it reminds me of a hamburger. The double arrow communicates "Transport."
The Hot Dog works and it's a fine logo, but it doesn't say "railroad." The basic shape could be used for anything. I wouldn't mind it being revived and put on new railway things, though.
@@WyvernYT Railroad is American, we are British if you don't mind!
@@Clivestravelandtrains Railway is also an excellent word!
Just a few lines in a simple arrangement, yet it achieves so much. Definitely a classic.
Some of our rail replacement buses have it on their digital blinds. Even if you don't read English, you know what the bus is there for. I much approve.
Others of our buses have a picture that is supposed to look like someone standing on a platform, by a train. To me it looks like a set of gallows that are... in use. Which probably describes how the passengers are feeling.
We won't talk about the blind that says "Choo Choo" in case I might swear.
I think the Double Arrow is a perfect symbol. I always thought that it showed the double track for up and down, but also a sort of electric spark to suggest the electrification of the modern railway.
It would be a sad day to lose it. Especially if it were superseded by the Hangman's Despair.
My Dad was a railwayman and one of the books that fascinated me as a child and I've kept hold of is a 1986 book, British Rail Design, done in conjunction with the Danish Design Council. It goes through the whole brand identity they'd developed - from the station signs & departure boards to the new Red Star Parcels brand, via the refreshment carts and the new seats being used in the Mk IV coaches.
Well worth a read if you can find it
8:58 - The design manual was reissued a few years back, it's a weighty tome and utterly fascinating...
Truly iconic logo and almost the perfect example. Still triggers the same small bump in my heart rate as it did in my childhood. It still brings about a hope of travelling on a train, or even just seeing one. I see it every day on my keyring.
The BR Corporate Identity Manual and all that stemmed from it represent some of the finest consistent and cohesive branding… ever. Love this historical context for the Double Arrow and Rail Alphabet - design classics indeed!
Great video as always, Jago!
Another bonus with the logo is that it contains a capital R without the vertical leg
Indeed. This is even more obvious if you compare it with the Indian Rupee symbol.
I’ve always imagined (I’m 48 and live in UK) the BR logo representing the interlinked lines meeting and signifying a networked rail system. So I learned something today that it is two arrows passing… goes to show how different people interpret visuals in their own way. Fascinating video, thanks!
You have corrected a misunderstanding I had about the double arrow logo. I was convinced that the logo had been designed and initially used specifically for electrified rail. The zigzag additionally representing a spark. Only later being rolled out across the rest of the BR system because it had been successful in that role.
Maybe I thought that because my earliest years of rail travel were mostly on the Waterloo-Bournemouth line which was, at the time, being electrified. And the Waterloo-Portsmouth line which had long been electrified.
I remember being pleased when I realised the logo was correct in showing that trains in the UK, like the cars on its roads, drive on the left. (As do the trains in France, incidentally.)
As a designer from London who frequents this channel this really hits the spot. The design is an absolute classic. British design royalty imo
dubble arow is a classic, any rail fan knows it
Always wondered how we got to the double Arrow
Not just any rail fan, probably any passenger!
Also the use of the advertising in the 1970s - we get you there , and back again
@@highpath4776 I do remember the This is the age of the train adverts. With an intercity 125 and a steam train on the same line.
As a kid i really liked the logo for some reason. It was simple but stood out.
I recall in Technical/Engineering Drawing 'O' Level having this, and the British Airways "Speedbird" designs as some of our first introductions to the "art" of technical design.
One of the most fascinating aspects I noted back then is how the ends of the arrow heads are just a little bit larger than at their bases, connected to the parallel lines.
It's almost impossible to spot, but it makes the extenfed up and down diagonals spread slightly toward their tips, which adds a tiny bit of "energy" in some sense to the design.
Anyway, as an autistic child with nerd tendencies, armed with a ruler and felt tips, I then proceeded to cover my bedroom walls in multitudes of examples of the Double Arrow, the Speedbird and additionally the logo for the Cray X-MP supercomputer, and the title for the film Close Encounters of The Third Kind ... I expect the latter two were partly due to a sudden love of rounded squishy typefaces :)
And as someone below also said, all over my school exercise books... tho in the mid 80s this [and I still have most of my exercise books to bear witness to this migration] was usurped by the Frankie Goes to Hollywood logo... because basically, typefaces aside, it seemed that I ultimately just liked logos with interesting pointy angles - but the BR logo is where it likely started :)
Absolutely fascinating! And what a lovely, clear, relaxing voice you have!
Truly amazing how close Collis Clements got with his design of two balls and a...
Looks the Granada TV logo has fallen over
One thing to mention, the only Steam engines to have ever been given the British Rail symbol, were the locos of the Vale of Rheidol Railway till the sale to the private sector of 88, so in a way, BR steam OFFICIALLY ended with them.
thats why it was said in 1968 end of Main Line Steam
I remember that TV advert which I think was about train connections to airports and they had the top half of the symbol become a plane
That's weird I was thinking about that exact same advert, while I was watching this vid, came down her ego comment about something else and saw your remark!
Excuse how can you not like the word ‘iconic’? It’s simply…iconic.
This is exactly what the world iconic is supposed to mean! It's totally overused now of course.
It's an icon of a thing. It represents an entirety of a kaboodle, it is, in fact, iconic.
Overuse.
It's not overused and abused as much as the word, "unique".
@@stevetaylor8698 By far the biggest abuse of that word is where people use superlatives and adverbs when it is an absolute.
This is an interesting and educational clip.
The challenge with logos (British Rail, swastika, Mercedes star) versues wordmarques (Boots, Beatles, Rolls-Royce) is that the former is more likely to require more encounters with and a greater understanding of its meaning before it becomes lodged in one's long term memory. Without frequent encounters one might forget what the logo stands for. With wordmarques there is no need to struggle with identifying who it represents, thus making it easier to associate values with it.
They both have their strengths, though uniqueness and simplicity of design coupled with a concise and engaging strapline/proposition determine their effectiveness.
As a child I uses to draw the symbol on all my school books etc. I loved trains (still do) so I drew many locomotives over the years, so I feel I have a real nostalgic affinity with the BR logo. Interestingly (or not), I always thought the symbol represented tracks and sets of points rather than two arrows. Thanks, I really enjoyed the video (as always!)
Our wedding theme in 2016 was "The Golden Age of Travel" and cardboard cut outs of our guests' names were presented in the 'hot dog' and were fixed onto an elongated bulldog clip pole which were less successfully mounted into a Ferrero Rocher! They kind of melted a bit...
For many, the 'Lion standing on a Wheel' is the family crest of Lord 'Alf' Byron, of 23 Railway Cuttings.
That's a deep cut indeed.
23 Railway Cuttings was Hancock's address in Hancock's Half Hour.
The 'Double Arrow' logo was instrumental in starting my design career 27 years ago, as was the Jordan 'Jumpman' logo and a local rock band 'Freeway Limit' (whom my uncle was lead singer and bassist). Thanks for this video, really enjoyed it. Lee
Fascinating, as ever.
Thanks Mr H.
NS (the dutch railways) have a similar-ish logo.
So glad they didn’t go for that suggestion with the circles and arrow, it immediately made me think "Half Man, Half Audi" 😂
Also reminiscent of gender symbols in biology, and now in more general use with unisex extensions. So could have been a mixed message! The double arrow is more distinctive.
Looks to me too much like male/female gender symbols, which could have caused a lot of confusion....
Yeah, "male symbol with two balls" wouldn't have aged nearly as well, I think.
It made me think of gender symbols with the female neutered. Not a good symbol in our days of euality.
Quite a fitting video as I was at the Didcot Railway Centre this week and spent a long time admiring the imagery on the engines. I always thought the BR symbol represented a set of track points.
Mo too, actually!
I thought it was the "up" line and the "down" line
Nice detailed info. Thank you - I learned a lot.
As usual I enjoyed this production immensely. The history of the logos i found fascinating as a designer and signwriter of fifty plus years
duration. Australian logos differ between the six states and two territories. The two arrows logo has been adopted here in some of the
states I'm sure with the appropriate permission. I have always surmised this portrayed sets of points, reflecting the ability for the rail
network to travel far and wide for the commuting public and freight forwarders. Now I accept correctly that it depicts trains moving in
two different directions. Thanks for all your enthusiastic efforts that are most educational and entertaining. You're a good dear Jago!
Glasgow electrification sign brought back memories I forgot I had. I was 6 and I remembered getting on an electric train for the first time and being able to look out the front of the Blue train. I have been hooked ever since.
That was a fascinating delve into history. Being of mature years I was an avid trainspotter as a lad and find it curious how change occurs but is often unnoticed. The older designs were definitely more classic, I do feel simplistic often devalues a product but have to agree the roundel, double arrows and the 'tick' are all immediately recognisable.
Ashington, Northumberland just had its double arrow sign installed yesterday at it's soon to be reopening Blyth and Tyne line. One of Beachings cuts...
8:18 - The "interlinked circles and an arrow" logo is nearly identical to the contemporary logo of Gray Coach Lines (a Canadian inter-city bus company, now defunct).
Even though I’ve never lived in the UK, I love the BR logo. It’s ionic, simple, and honestly somewhat perfect for what it does. With GBR taking over the railways, it’s nice to see this logo remain relevant and important into the future.
Here in Canada we also have some very iconic railway logos. The CN “snake” is probably the best example, having been introduced in the 1960s, CN continues to use this logo even to this day. There’s also the GO Transit logo, designed by the same firm that made the CN logo. This logo is iconic to anyone who lives in Southern Ontario and is used in a manner quite similar to the BR logo. VIA Rail also has an iconic logo too.
Thank you as always Jago! A subject that has always fascinated me, but which I knew very well little about…until watching this terrific video.
As a small boy, the sight of this logo raised my pulse! Strangely, it still does. As always, a superb and enjoyable video. Thank you!
Watching to your videos and listening to your voice is the most Zen thing that anyone can do after a hard day. I am not even a train buff, but I do like quality. Well done Jago.
As much as i love classical architecture and style there’s something about mid-century modern when it comes to logos that just makes sense the Double Arrow and the Hot Dog come to mind.
Greetings from the States.
Really enjoyed the last few vids so interesting, I love your train vids obvs but also love your older vids about architecture etc.
The logo first came to my attention and made sense to me when it was used in the TV ads for Intercity as the two arrows joined with the sound of a train's hooter.... "hurr-harr", something I'd expected to pop up in this video. But it's a great video on how design can be so powerful in cementing a concept and unifying disperate elements. Cheers mate!
Thanks Jago, another interesting thing learnt. Mention of the hotdog brought a smile. The main logo reminds me of a BR sandwich with all the bits hanging out !
Surely there weren’t enough bits in a BR sandwich to be hanging out…
@@aldo5428 And they weren't straight edged - but curly!
Thoroughly enjoyable as always! I know you do venture out of the 'Smoke' occasionally (Knaresborough, York), and my local oddity, the Stourbridge Town Branch, is surely crying out to be featured!
The Boots logo (featured in the first piece of footage) is one of my favourite.
I have a broken plastic one, on a wall, that I found in a street, which says Boo. 😁
Great video. for non designers, this is a great education in how the right answer, the simplest most long lived answer isn’t the easiest one to get to or even self evident. Simple isn’t simple
The odd thing is, the BR logo I remember from my childhood is none of those you cover (it was more 'heraldic'/old-fashioned). I'm starting to wonder if I've made it up!
Another odd thing that just occurs to me is that, although the double arrow sign is now nearly universally used to mean 'railway station' - and not just in Britain - the 'standard' road sign for 'train' is still a cartoon depiction of a steam engine, including smoke! And yet you have to be well over 60 to have any memory of regular steam-hauled train services. A child born in the 21st century, who may never have seen a steam engine, sees that sign and knows it means 'level crossing' - despite it looking radically unlike any train that child has ever seen!
Yes I've thought that too. 😊
The steam train on the roadsigns is the same reason that the road traffic camera is a box camera with bellows on the front - despite that camera design not being in use for 100 years or more. Its because its instantly recognisable as to what it is. A simplified drawn version of a DMU or loco we use today would basically be a box with wheels - looking like a bus or a coach or a truck or a train or a mobile library. The steam train (and the box camera with bellows) is totally on purpose to remove any confusion. Its train, and always will be in the eyes of anyone whos looked at a kids book involving trains!
@@jameshodgetts7541 good point, but I'm not convinced about the camera. Despite my scepticism about the train sign, I will accept that the majority of kids know what a steam engine looks like. But who on earth sees the old camera with bellows and thinks "ah ha, camera!". I'm 70 and I've never seen one of those cameras outside a museum. My grandkids have probably never even seen a 'proper' camera in real life - they both have phones, to them a camera is an app!
@@paulhaynes8045 Your grandkids may never have seen a 3.5" floppy either, but they'll recognize the Save File icon.
@@WyvernYT I'm not sure they even know what a disc is! Everything just magically uses the 'cloud' now. I reminded them that they should periodically back up their phones and they looked at me as if I was even more senile than I am!
An excellent video as always mate, I honestly love the BR Double Arrow and was drawing it by the time I was a toddler (you know, proper crank and all). It genuinely is a design classic, it symbolises railways in an almost universal language to the point where I have seen in various countries the same logo being used on maps to denote railway stations, now that is an achievement.
I had never heard of the "Cycling Lyon" nickname though have heard it's replacement called the "ferret and dartboard" with myself using that term all the time, in my opinion I do think both logos are good with the Cycling Lyon being suited to bigger locomotives, particularly the express locos with the ferret and dartboard suited to anything from the "Austerity" to the 5MT (my personal favourite steamers).
As much as I love the double arrow I too have often referred to it as the "arrow of indecision" however if you look back to the late 80s/early 90s "we're getting there" adverts where the logo is formed up of various trains it really makes it clear what it is.
Also bonus points for using my home heritage line, the ELR in some of your B-Roll :)
The "Double Arrow" which represents two trains passing each other on a double track railway is registered to the DOP though used by BR is still used today. National Rail stations can use it but privatised TOC can not hence why you don't see it on trains anymore.
Simple, striking, effective, like the Underground/LT roundel. Thankfully despite the constant rebranding and new logos in so many areas, those in charge have appreciated it and resisted the temptation to meddle. Nationwide take note. Amusingly the arrows sometimes got reversed to give "wrong direction" running; the left hand side of Sealink ferry funnels was an example of this.
Hadn't initially noticed that the Sealink ship model at 8:00 does indeed have the reversed arrow! I remember it from the full sized ships.
the symbol is like your video - clear, simple and to the point. Well done JH.
Thank you for your video. Always engaging, informative and entertaining. xx
I'm surprised you didn't mention that the cycling lion always faced forwards on locos. They tried to do this with the ferret and dartboard, but because it was an official heraldic design and they'd only submitted the left-facing one, they were told they couldn't do right-facing ones (yet still some locos had right-facing ones, at least for a time). This wasn't an issue with diesels, as there wasn't a specific "forwards".
The double arrows always appeared with the top arrow facing right, except for Sealink ships, where the top arrow faced the direction of the bow of the ship (aka "forwards", as per the earlier designs).
Oops, thought I was the first to point out the Sealink anomaly.
The Sealink reversed arrow is indeed visible on the ship model at 8:00.
This reminds me of the US military rule, "The flag is never in retreat." They have it mirrored on the right side of vehicles. Some other countries with asymmetrical flags have the same rule, but not all.
Truly excellently presented. Nice to see Carshalton getting a small nod
A timeless design classic. Some great railway footage on this video and I love all the very young faces peering out of the windows of the blue/grey DEMU thumper unit toward the end of this video. I think a steam loco at the Vale of Rheidol should be painted into rail blue with the white double arrow. Perhaps even a standard gauge steam loco should be done as well as in another universe, the Modernisation Plan was different and steam survived into the early 1980s....
The Sealink double-arrow goes the other way (top arrow pointing left). There's an example in the video, on the ship's funnel. I bought what I thought was a BR corporate shirt on eBay, but it turned out to be the Sealink variety. I still wear it at the heritage railway I volunteer at - not many people notice!
I worked at DRU as a designer a few years before it was absorbed into another company. It was a very small outfit by that time and mostly was comprised of architects. Much of the work (design and architecture) was for railway/underground stations both in Britain and abroad.
Yes and again a brilliant expose, even I as a person living in Ireland immediately recognise this, it’s as if it’s embedded in my unconscious somewhere! This in my view is an exceptional video, keep up your great and entertaining work 👌
The uniformity of british signs always makes me happy. In London you can always distinguish the National Rail from the Underground from buses from the overground from the DLR even at a distance. One of the things that Britain has actually done really well!
Superb logo. Absolute timeless. Sydney public transport (until it was mostly gutted by privatisation) had a similar logo. It was colloquially called the L7. Wags said it was an abbreviation of Late, 7 days a week 😂.
A neat stylistic feature is that the upper and lower 'tails' actually flare outwards slightly. This is to correct perspective when viewed from the side, preventing them from seemingly shrinking as they reach the tips.
Very well explained and illustrated. Cleared up a few things in my understanding! Thank you
8:18 looks like we dodged a bullet there. The double-arrow is a genuine design classic, but that two-circles-plus-arrow nonsense looks like the familiar male symbol penetrating a hole. The people who come up with logo nicknames like "hotdog" and "ferret and dartboard" would surely have had a field day with that.
The lion in the first design looked emaciated, so it was sometimes called the Starving Lion. Given that Britain still had rationing at the time, it was probably not inappropriate.
Thanks
And thank you!
I think the National Bus Company tried to do a similar thing with their "mirrored N" logo. But the BR one worked better and for longer.
And, a bit later, the Scottish Bus Group.
Up until now I thought it depicted a complex-ish set of points
Yes, there seem to be extra unintentional railway hints in it, like it looking a bit like a pantograph too.
@@CheshireTomcat68 I can see that…
I aways thought the same, but as for many things Railway related, Mr Hazzard has shown me the error of my ways!
@@justinal-soufi2139 I'm happy to be corrected
This has to be THE classic uk logo. With Margaret Calvert and Jock Kinners' typeface, it is exactly how to create a great brand. Such a shame we don't do it properly now. Although Jagos logo is memorable😊
I'm old enough to remember the logo being introduced. British Rail adverts ended with the two halves of the logo (top and bottom) joining up to the sound of a two-tone locomotive horn. "Let the train take the strain" (If one arrives on time, or at all).
Literally one of the best examples of logos that does not have text at all. Only this and the old Twitter (now sometimes known as X) are the ones I can think of that doesn't have a text version.
2:07 That concrete pole supporting the bus signs is a relic of the London tram system. Obviously has survived for a long time.
Engrossing and informative, as ever. Thank you, Jago.
We've become so used to the 'Double Arrow' that by deconstructing it, you've caused me to have a peculiar feeling of _Jamais Vu!_
I'm actually Irish, but much of my family are British, so despite constant exposure to the symbol from when I lived in London for much of the '90's, the BR logo, thanks to the railways themselves and also the Sealink ferries, is still capable of giving me warm, fuzzy, nostalgic 'vibes' from travelling to see relations as a kid.
Change of course always brings out intransigent instincts, especially as we grow older, so I've no doubt that there's plenty of opposition for one reason or another to the new "Great British Railways". Is there anyone else, though, who is annoyed by that "Great"? The tendency in recent years to throw around the usage "Great British _this_ ", and "Great British _that_ " (as in everything from "Great British Bake~Off" to "Great British Sausage"!) I have to say, really gets up my nose. Let me be clear that, notwithstanding my nationality, I have no difficulty whatever with the concept of Britain as being a 'Great' country - but the casual insousciance with which the word 'Great' is employed in this way implies either an ignorance or a wilful disregard of the actual meaning of the word 'Great' in the context of the country name, which refers to the British island as a whole, in which Scotland & England have united into one political entity. Ireland (or today, only Northern Ireland) too, in some interpretations, but Ireland being an island in its own right, if one is to be _really_ pedantic about it, the term 'United Kingdom' is probably preferable in such cases.
I have to concede that this new rail authority is very likely _not_ using 'Great' in this sense of 'Superlatively Good'. Most probably they are simply using the word to signify that the authority will have powers over the railways throughout the whole United Kingdom. Unfortunately though, that other "Britain - F%&k, _Yeah!_ " meaning has become so prevalant, the name of the body will be inevitably tainted, at least in my view. Still, I said that many people will oppose the new body, and especially the name; however it could just be that I'm overly uptight. As such, I shouldn't be surprised either if it turns out that any opposition to the name is merely a fringe concern...
Thank you, Jago - fascinating to see the story behind a logo that has become universally accepted as the standard.
It’s not just iconic in Britain though, I was stunned to see it used as the logo as an interchange to rail services… on the Chongqing Metro!
I even joked at the time that Chongqing was so ambitious that it was planning to connect its metro to the British Rail system haha
Superbly well researched and presented as ever Mr Hazzard: greatly appreciated.
Concise too - why can't all YT content creators stick to a 10-15 minute maximum duration when it comes to their respective AV output?
Re specific post: how chastening it is (again) to witness the reality of a pre-1995, entirely NSNL world. I.e. the starkly relative richesse, sophistication and quality of it all.
Yours faithfully
John Moser
This is really a Sunday treat so thank you!
Am I remembering wrong? There was a time during or after Privatisation the BR logo really took a back seat? I know it remained on the main station sign/pole but it seemed to fade away pretty much everywhere else, even on tickets. It really felt like it was being phased out or a relic. Then it started to come back in full force and you can see it in lots of places. I wonder if Rail Track wanted rid of it before Rail Track was rebranded.
Network Rail was more than just a rebranding of Railtrack.
I haven't seen your videos channel in a while. Happy to find it again 😅
I am wearing my cycling lion hoodie, but will switch to my double arrow hoodie this afternoon when I want to feel more modern.
KInnier and Calvert also designed the Transport typeface that's found on every modern road sign too. Two people who have arguably made a very substantial impact on how the country looks today.
I have a badge with the "Ferret and Dartboard" logo on it and have met two older French men who instantly recognised it with nostalgia. One because his dad worked for the SNCF and they used to get a special ticket from/via the SNCF which was recognised by BR for travel around the UK so took all their holidays on BR trains. (I forgot what the other guy said, sorry).
I notice that ship shown at 7:57 is showing the SNCF logo with righthand running. That is unless the plaque on the model is mirror imaged😃
It is conventional to show the logo as if in a flag,with the flagstaff astern of the flag itself, as would be the case if it were a real flag and there is a following wind. So on the port side of the ship we see the reverse side of the flag
@@norbitonflyer5625 so now I know. Thanks
As a graphic designer this story was right up my alley