Imagine letting essentially one of the first groups of the next generation of new yacht buyers suffer so horribly for following their dreams. Really this is getting to the point where they should be ashamed of what we have had to go through as human beings and make an example of making this right without any more hardship. Still waiting on Robertson and Caine to comment on the yacht they tried to build. Travelopia/Leopard seems to be the only ones checking to see how the shit show is going.
The fact that you three are now also helping other Leopard owners with reviews of their cats, as well as helping to problem solve issues on their cats, should be at the top of Leopard's "We need to get things fixed!" list! You might think about starting a business offering support just to Leopard owners! All the best!
Imagine if they don't make this right. How fast the boys can compile a warranty list for any new Leopard 45 or 50 now. Playing a dangerous game. Owners are already turning up to our shipyard....
65 hours sounds very reasonable to me. That's a big job. It's fair for Tinan to be compensated for his time. Thanks for sharing. Happy Memorial Day weekend. 🇺🇸
Trent made them a peace offering before christmas from memory. I think he intends to publish it all in future if we can't come to an agreement. Once the shareholders see how inconsequentially this could have been resolved if it isn't in the end well......
Hey guys, my Leopard is a lemon but yours is shocking beyond words and should be replaced. You definitely need to be hugely compensated for what's been done to you. If Leopard handled their warranty issues better, everything would be a little more bearable
I'm a builder and an issue I see with that black tank is pipes coming in from the top. Any pipe running down should always be male into female. The pipe connecting on the outside of a fitting despite a jubilee clip is prone to leaking.THE PIPE Should run down inside a fitting so it can't leak.
Silicone fixes all, according to leopard. Also unbelievable how the tank was mounted and how does anyone expect a fitting in a recess like that to ever have a chance to seal. Bloody disgraceful it ever leaving the yard in that state.
Imagine the foresight of kicking this invoice along so long. I wonder what percentage this insignificant invoice is of one hulls commission payment. Looks like it cost them one buyer above. Woops. Maybe do the right thing and communicate.
I hope Leopard read my comment. Reputation is Everything! Zathara did an episode where they talked about a buddy boat Leopard 50 in Australia and all the troubles the owner had to go through with quality control and warranty items on the boat (and that was nothing compared to you). That was during Covid. As soon as restrictions were lifted I attended the Annapolis boat show to check out all the catamarans I was seeing on UA-cam. I never set foot on a Leopard boat. I ended up buying an FP. Only if they realize their loss. I guess a huge contract with the Mooring made them ethics lazy, but isn't the Mooring is also structured on private buyers that watches all of this Hell? At minimum they should have done right by you and give you a new boat (although at this point it seems your boat is heading to the a better than new state). What a pitiful workmanship. Leopard, own your fu*k ups. You shouldn't be crushing your customers dreams.
Hi, I think I've said this before, here or elsewhere; When you buy a new boat, or anything of value like a house, you should never pay for the whole thing, but put at least 10% of its value in an escrow account, even if you have a bank loan. The price you pay them is the price of tranquility, and it will be minimal. On the other hand, a new boat has a so-called “novena” period (the period following the construction of a boat, during which testing is carried out - maybe new-build?) where anything that should fail because of poor installation or manufacture should fail and be replaced by the builder (that's what the 10% is for...), this period must run for the entire legal warranty period of the product, during which the builder and his subcontractors must restore the equipment, parts and labor included. Eventually, there's the hidden defects warranty, which lasts for the entire life of the product if a manufacturing defect is found... But once again, it all depends on the law, the country of purchase and the purchase contract. When I've been to boat shows, I've seen horrors like the one on your boat, from brands that you see everywhere, making hundreds of boats a year. You're never at the mercy of human fatigue. A good lawyer isn't expensive, but then again, it all depends on the purchase contract... And if there's a good lawyer and a perfect purchase contract, there are no more videos about defects! 😇😎😀😀 Sincerely, Philippe A few words to add : John Robertson was looking for a buyer so he could retire, and he looked for two years, until 2023... Previously owned by its founder and a pool of private shareholders, Robertson & Caine (R&C) has been taken over by the Czech investment fund PPF, already present in the yachting sector as a majority shareholder in Dream Yacht Charter, the world's leading yacht charter company, and Navigare Yachting, the Swedish specialist in high-end yacht charter. I've noticed a serious decline in quality since the takeover. Before, Leopards were almost perfect and solid, but now, you have to keep a close eye on them... But it's not just them: many companies are now looking for yield, not quality...
Oh my, fortunately your waste pump out is outside! Have you thought about purasan? We like ours. Holding tanks not the favorite 💩 job. On another note, it’s end of may. You were planning/ hoping to be in the water in Jan! This is unforgivable. Keeping 🤞 that you get an answer soon.
The Builders must be held accountable according to the standards they are claiming as they are definitely not adhering to the Build SOP's as laid down by the standards organizations. Leopard has thrown their whole reputation under the bus due to them not doing the required regular inspections on Build quality. The fitment of the mast tubes for the electrical wiring for the instruments and lights was found to continue on a new Leopard and leaks galore as you pointed out. the tubes that came out of that mast looked like someone locked up a PVC Bug in there which consumed the tubes with holes drilled through the Bit of tube that was installed (supposed to have 2 one aluminium which was conspicuous in its absence and one PVC tube running the full length of the mast) Only about 2 meters of PVC if you are lucky was installed. I cannot understand how a rigid standards conscious country like USA can allow these Boats to be sold to its consumers and be registered in the USA and still allow them to attend the shows with these substandard Boats. Maybe when the boats registration is done Leopard looks at where the boat will be registered and if they see USA they hand out the Good quality ones and if they see anywhere else where Standards are not and issue they sell them the rejects to get rid of them then hmmmm and haw around until the warranty issues die off by themselves. Sorry for the bad workmanship of the people down in Cape Town they are doing more harm than good as South Africa once was a country with pride in their workmanship now it is country where cash is King and mistakes can be buried with Cash.
Yeah the boys have a lot of SA friends so were shocked and disappointed when they saw the state of the work quality from R&C on such an expensive item.
If ever there was a boat built on a Monday morning it has to be this one 🙈... but what I don't understand is why you never gave it back to R&C and demanded a new one?
Hey guys I think you are doing a great job I think leopard should be hold responsible for al the cost and time lost or give you guys a brand new boat, after seeing the horror workmanship on your boat I think you guys should start posting your videos on all the catamaran fb groups to warn people about leopard . Your boat was dangerous and apparently all their boats have dry glass imagine crossing a ocean in this I'm a life long sailor I own a lagoon 500 and thought lagoon was bad with the bulkhead issues anyway I'm on my way to grenada would be great if you guys are in the water by then Keep up the good work and remember to stay positive things will get better soon
this is how it goes new CEO or owner takes over cuts cost to make themselves look good on their CV instigates cheaper unskilled labour, parts, materials, quicker production - blah blah blah a year after order books were full because we actually used to manufacture a reasonable (not great) product profits look amazing, yay new CEO can fuck off to next corporate ladder step and demand more money because i did an amazing job at leopard. meanwhile in the place hes just left and made look amazing on the books is in deep shit because he fucked it with zero integrety and all about him or them. Travel sketch you were in the wrong place at the wrong time i went on new leopards, outermers, lagoons and F&Ps about 5 years ago when looking for a world circ boat, all looked like rubbish and they were new. i bought a 30 year old NZ design and built yacght that still looks like new 30 years later. people do your home work, look, dont listen to sales bullshit and evaluate.
After working on commercial ship's for most of my life I have no interest in getting into yachting. I prefer to sleep in a nice stable bed and stay in a hotel where I can see scenery and listen to the birds and go for walks without rolling around. I also have no interest to do continual repairs and maintenance which goes together when having a yacht. Your story just gets worse and worse. Seems like they are ghosting you with those bills for all hard work done. I am looking forward to the day you set sail. I personally think that you 3 should start a marine workshop back home. Employ some dedicated staff with the same persistence as you 3 to do the work. You guys just do the supervision and you will soon have a very successful yatch repair business. Cheers from Durban, South Africa
It looked like you used Shields 148 series hose for the blackwater. This is the wrong hose for that purpose and will permeate and stink within a year or so. It is also prone to leaking in bends and with any regular movement.
I am a master plumber , 65 hours is reasonable . He had to source all the parts , find the leaks , clean everything and then repair things like an uneven seal, and find the tools and sealants then test , and clean up the sewage spill . This all done by a not expert . Repairs take twice as long as the initial install or more because you add demo to the list and these things do not come apart easy . Given they have stolen about 10,000 hours of your sailing time enjoying the boat they should not be questioning the repair at all . Instead they should be ashamed of themselves and be sending the $ and a gift certificate for a holiday somewhere .
Thanks for the support. Trent would not be happen to exchange any amount of money they would offer for what it has cost him. He was just trying to make peace and move on with the least amount of drama. Clearly they enjoy drama though.
@@travelsketch Trent saved them a bundle over sending someone to repair it themselves . The cost for them to send a tradesman would include travel and maybe even accommodations . They clearly are all about minimizing warranty costs , not about customer service and standing behind the product . Unfortunately Leopard , like Lagoon are charter boats done on a budget to look good for a few years not last . It is quantity over quality , with price being the big driver . From Wiki " In 1994, South African builder Robertson and Caine entered into an agreement with the premier global yacht charter company, The Moorings, to manufacture specifically designed catamarans for its charter fleet. In less than 4 years, Robertson and Caine delivered the 100th catamaran to The Moorings"
I’ve come to the conclusion that Leopard collected all the parts from warranty repairs and used them to build a whole new boat, which they then sold to you 😮
I can smell the writing on the wall. Cutting corners to reduce costs and their quality starts to slide, then bing da bang in the shitter. They are running off potential customers with their shoddy workmanship.
For what it’s worth, there will be no one who knows their boat inside out like you do.once you get sailing on her, give it a few magic days and you will look forward, not backward. After that storm comes a lull, always!! But for now I can imagine what a shit job that was. We sailed out of Cape Town on our brand new catamaran in 1991, the waste line of the black tanks was stopped with the breather line that goes up the mast. After a week at sea, the mast was full of shit and shitpaper, and all flushed onto the deck! It was a 10 minute fix😊 not 65 hours.hang in there!
For the life of me I don’t understand why you guys have not completely rejected this boat and handed it back to Leopard & if nec taken them to court to get your money back, this boat seems to be a complete lemon 🍋
If we swap boats we lose all the work on this boat, have to sign an NDA for a refund and presumably some damages. The we have no boat. Now ay on earth we would want anew R&C boat looking at what is coming out of the 45 factory. We wanted them to do the right thing and fix this boat and then look at what they should do to make it right.
The issue with the black tanks is they should be securely mounted wherein they do not move as being only strapped in they constantly move and all the fittings comes loose. And they should be gravity emptied. Or pumped out from top. Sorry. Poorly designed.
Hummmm..... I have watched more than several videos from you guys and I have to say............ man a tool, get to work, stop complaining, fix it AND go Sailing. I cant watch anymore.
Imagine letting essentially one of the first groups of the next generation of new yacht buyers suffer so horribly for following their dreams. Really this is getting to the point where they should be ashamed of what we have had to go through as human beings and make an example of making this right without any more hardship. Still waiting on Robertson and Caine to comment on the yacht they tried to build. Travelopia/Leopard seems to be the only ones checking to see how the shit show is going.
The fact that you three are now also helping other Leopard owners with reviews of their cats, as well as helping to problem solve issues on their cats, should be at the top of Leopard's "We need to get things fixed!" list! You might think about starting a business offering support just to Leopard owners! All the best!
Imagine if they don't make this right. How fast the boys can compile a warranty list for any new Leopard 45 or 50 now. Playing a dangerous game. Owners are already turning up to our shipyard....
65 hours sounds very reasonable to me. That's a big job. It's fair for Tinan to be compensated for his time.
Thanks for sharing. Happy Memorial Day weekend. 🇺🇸
😎 well said
Yeah because a contractor would have taken two weeks and X 3 the money to do it twice but that is OK apparently.
What a nightmare! I feel for you guys. You deserve to be highly compensated for this mess of a boat.
Trent made them a peace offering before christmas from memory. I think he intends to publish it all in future if we can't come to an agreement. Once the shareholders see how inconsequentially this could have been resolved if it isn't in the end well......
Hey guys, my Leopard is a lemon but yours is shocking beyond words and should be replaced. You definitely need to be hugely compensated for what's been done to you. If Leopard handled their warranty issues better, everything would be a little more bearable
Thanks for the support, that would be nice if they compensated me for irreplaceable years I should have been enjoying a new boat with my friends.
I'm a builder and an issue I see with that black tank is pipes coming in from the top.
Any pipe running down should always be male into female.
The pipe connecting on the outside of a fitting despite a jubilee clip is prone to leaking.THE PIPE Should run down inside a fitting so it can't leak.
Silicone fixes all, according to leopard. Also unbelievable how the tank was mounted and how does anyone expect a fitting in a recess like that to ever have a chance to seal. Bloody disgraceful it ever leaving the yard in that state.
@@paulgillard2258 💯 agree👍
Brand New! This is beyond belief anyone inspected anything on the build. Thanks for sharing. Leopard is no longer a consideration.
Seawind? Cheers🍻
Imagine the foresight of kicking this invoice along so long. I wonder what percentage this insignificant invoice is of one hulls commission payment. Looks like it cost them one buyer above. Woops. Maybe do the right thing and communicate.
Indeed
Treating these kids this way is about the dumbest grasp of advertising I think I have ever seen.
I hope Leopard read my comment. Reputation is Everything! Zathara did an episode where they talked about a buddy boat Leopard 50 in Australia and all the troubles the owner had to go through with quality control and warranty items on the boat (and that was nothing compared to you). That was during Covid. As soon as restrictions were lifted I attended the Annapolis boat show to check out all the catamarans I was seeing on UA-cam. I never set foot on a Leopard boat. I ended up buying an FP. Only if they realize their loss. I guess a huge contract with the Mooring made them ethics lazy, but isn't the Mooring is also structured on private buyers that watches all of this Hell? At minimum they should have done right by you and give you a new boat (although at this point it seems your boat is heading to the a better than new state). What a pitiful workmanship. Leopard, own your fu*k ups. You shouldn't be crushing your customers dreams.
2nd that
Hi,
I think I've said this before, here or elsewhere;
When you buy a new boat, or anything of value like a house, you should never pay for the whole thing, but put at least 10% of its value in an escrow account, even if you have a bank loan. The price you pay them is the price of tranquility, and it will be minimal.
On the other hand, a new boat has a so-called “novena” period (the period following the construction of a boat, during which testing is carried out - maybe new-build?) where anything that should fail because of poor installation or manufacture should fail and be replaced by the builder (that's what the 10% is for...), this period must run for the entire legal warranty period of the product, during which the builder and his subcontractors must restore the equipment, parts and labor included.
Eventually, there's the hidden defects warranty, which lasts for the entire life of the product if a manufacturing defect is found...
But once again, it all depends on the law, the country of purchase and the purchase contract.
When I've been to boat shows, I've seen horrors like the one on your boat, from brands that you see everywhere, making hundreds of boats a year. You're never at the mercy of human fatigue.
A good lawyer isn't expensive, but then again, it all depends on the purchase contract...
And if there's a good lawyer and a perfect purchase contract, there are no more videos about defects! 😇😎😀😀
Sincerely, Philippe
A few words to add :
John Robertson was looking for a buyer so he could retire, and he looked for two years, until 2023...
Previously owned by its founder and a pool of private shareholders, Robertson & Caine (R&C) has been taken over by the Czech investment fund PPF, already present in the yachting sector as a majority shareholder in Dream Yacht Charter, the world's leading yacht charter company, and Navigare Yachting, the Swedish specialist in high-end yacht charter.
I've noticed a serious decline in quality since the takeover. Before, Leopards were almost perfect and solid, but now, you have to keep a close eye on them...
But it's not just them: many companies are now looking for yield, not quality...
Excellent, quality, informative input
Oh my, fortunately your waste pump out is outside! Have you thought about purasan? We like ours. Holding tanks not the favorite 💩 job. On another note, it’s end of may. You were planning/ hoping to be in the water in Jan! This is unforgivable. Keeping 🤞 that you get an answer soon.
Unforgivable is how the contractor treated Trent who only had good intentions. I'm personally furious.
The Builders must be held accountable according to the standards they are claiming as they are definitely not adhering to the Build SOP's as laid down by the standards organizations. Leopard has thrown their whole reputation under the bus due to them not doing the required regular inspections on Build quality. The fitment of the mast tubes for the electrical wiring for the instruments and lights was found to continue on a new Leopard and leaks galore as you pointed out. the tubes that came out of that mast looked like someone locked up a PVC Bug in there which consumed the tubes with holes drilled through the Bit of tube that was installed (supposed to have 2 one aluminium which was conspicuous in its absence and one PVC tube running the full length of the mast) Only about 2 meters of PVC if you are lucky was installed. I cannot understand how a rigid standards conscious country like USA can allow these Boats to be sold to its consumers and be registered in the USA and still allow them to attend the shows with these substandard Boats. Maybe when the boats registration is done Leopard looks at where the boat will be registered and if they see USA they hand out the Good quality ones and if they see anywhere else where Standards are not and issue they sell them the rejects to get rid of them then hmmmm and haw around until the warranty issues die off by themselves. Sorry for the bad workmanship of the people down in Cape Town they are doing more harm than good as South Africa once was a country with pride in their workmanship now it is country where cash is King and mistakes can be buried with Cash.
Yeah the boys have a lot of SA friends so were shocked and disappointed when they saw the state of the work quality from R&C on such an expensive item.
Such a "hands on" leaky black tank tutorial! 😅
The tutorial is don't buy one of these boats without checking the black tanks and everything else. 😅
If ever there was a boat built on a Monday morning it has to be this one 🙈... but what I don't understand is why you never gave it back to R&C and demanded a new one?
In Cape Town they wouldn't swap it for a cosmetically prettier hull. Once the severity of issues became apparent over time we were too far along.
Seems like Leopard are taking a huge hit in reputation they had there chances.
Hopefully they gain some perspective.
Stay sane! (if you can) Good luck!
Thanks we need luck :) we do all the hard work and get none of the luck haha
Hey guys I think you are doing a great job I think leopard should be hold responsible for al the cost and time lost or give you guys a brand new boat, after seeing the horror workmanship on your boat
I think you guys should start posting your videos on all the catamaran fb groups to warn people about leopard . Your boat was dangerous and apparently all their boats have dry glass imagine crossing a ocean in this I'm a life long sailor I own a lagoon 500 and thought lagoon was bad with the bulkhead issues anyway I'm on my way to grenada would be great if you guys are in the water by then
Keep up the good work and remember to stay positive things will get better soon
O My....?! 😢
Yep, not a nice problem for Ty to be fixing 😔
YOU NEED TO RETURN THE BOAT TO THE SHIPYARD
Why would we do that.
This is worse than buying a second hand boat, to think this is supposed to be a new and at that price is behold belief
The most shocking thing I've ever lived through and that says a lot.
Yes and with second hand boat you have a better brand for the money.
@@tombobtail7706 well with a second hand boat probably all the from-factory-fresh-issues have been sorted out one way or the other.
Pin hole in black water line sounds like unhappy workers .
Could be
Was the model named ‘Leopard’ because it many spots… that can leak?
You so funny ;)
this is how it goes
new CEO or owner takes over
cuts cost to make themselves look good on their CV
instigates cheaper unskilled labour, parts, materials, quicker production - blah blah blah
a year after order books were full because we actually used to manufacture a reasonable (not great) product profits look amazing, yay new CEO can fuck off to next corporate ladder step and demand more money because i did an amazing job at leopard.
meanwhile in the place hes just left and made look amazing on the books is in deep shit because he fucked it with zero integrety and all about him or them.
Travel sketch you were in the wrong place at the wrong time
i went on new leopards, outermers, lagoons and F&Ps about 5 years ago when looking for a world circ boat, all looked like rubbish and they were new. i bought a 30 year old NZ design and built yacght that still looks like new 30 years later.
people do your home work, look, dont listen to sales bullshit and evaluate.
Well said. The CEO is a problem, I agree.
That moustache! 👌
🥸
After working on commercial ship's for most of my life I have no interest in getting into yachting. I prefer to sleep in a nice stable bed and stay in a hotel where I can see scenery and listen to the birds and go for walks without rolling around. I also have no interest to do continual repairs and maintenance which goes together when having a yacht. Your story just gets worse and worse. Seems like they are ghosting you with those bills for all hard work done. I am looking forward to the day you set sail. I personally think that you 3 should start a marine workshop back home. Employ some dedicated staff with the same persistence as you 3 to do the work. You guys just do the supervision and you will soon have a very successful yatch repair business.
Cheers from Durban, South Africa
Thanks for the support. I don't think we want to fix other people boats full time but haha :)
It looked like you used Shields 148 series hose for the blackwater. This is the wrong hose for that purpose and will permeate and stink within a year or so. It is also prone to leaking in bends and with any regular movement.
I think that they sent Vetus hose I forget the type
Hallol i read J and C was sold ???
Lucky you never pumped that starboard tank as that pool of water from the leaking deck drain would have been a puddle of.......
Yep 🤮
Tuesday and Tynan was seen in a bin, I think eating out of it. 😰 Any day now I worry he will look for an old monohull to sink for crowdfunding. 😥
Get off my social media 🤣
I am a master plumber , 65 hours is reasonable . He had to source all the parts , find the leaks , clean everything and then repair things like an uneven seal, and find the tools and sealants then test , and clean up the sewage spill . This all done by a not expert . Repairs take twice as long as the initial install or more because you add demo to the list and these things do not come apart easy .
Given they have stolen about 10,000 hours of your sailing time enjoying the boat they should not be questioning the repair at all . Instead they should be ashamed of themselves and be sending the $ and a gift certificate for a holiday somewhere .
Thanks for the support. Trent would not be happen to exchange any amount of money they would offer for what it has cost him. He was just trying to make peace and move on with the least amount of drama. Clearly they enjoy drama though.
@@travelsketch Trent saved them a bundle over sending someone to repair it themselves . The cost for them to send a tradesman would include travel and maybe even accommodations .
They clearly are all about minimizing warranty costs , not about customer service and standing behind the product .
Unfortunately Leopard , like Lagoon are charter boats done on a budget to look good for a few years not last . It is quantity over quality , with price being the big driver .
From Wiki " In 1994, South African builder Robertson and Caine entered into an agreement with the premier global yacht charter company, The Moorings, to manufacture specifically designed catamarans for its charter fleet. In less than 4 years, Robertson and Caine delivered the 100th catamaran to The Moorings"
I’ve come to the conclusion that Leopard collected all the parts from warranty repairs and used them to build a whole new boat, which they then sold to you 😮
We wouldn't argue.
Leopard Cats are 💩💩💩💩!!! Sorry for all the headaches. Wish you guys the best under extremely troubling circumstances.
Thanks for the support. :)
I can smell the writing on the wall. Cutting corners to reduce costs and their quality starts to slide, then bing da bang in the shitter. They are running off potential customers with their shoddy workmanship.
For what it’s worth, there will be no one who knows their boat inside out like you do.once you get sailing on her, give it a few magic days and you will look forward, not backward. After that storm comes a lull, always!! But for now I can imagine what a shit job that was. We sailed out of Cape Town on our brand new catamaran in 1991, the waste line of the black tanks was stopped with the breather line that goes up the mast. After a week at sea, the mast was full of shit and shitpaper, and all flushed onto the deck! It was a 10 minute fix😊 not 65 hours.hang in there!
A lot of good friends have helped with our boat :)
Who chooses these materials…from plastic flanges to shallow Philips screws..these are single use products…what is the life expectancy of this vessel?
Until they arrive at the charter base for a 5 year rebuild?
For the life of me I don’t understand why you guys have not completely rejected this boat and handed it back to Leopard & if nec taken them to court to get your money back, this boat seems to be a complete lemon 🍋
If we swap boats we lose all the work on this boat, have to sign an NDA for a refund and presumably some damages. The we have no boat. Now ay on earth we would want anew R&C boat looking at what is coming out of the 45 factory. We wanted them to do the right thing and fix this boat and then look at what they should do to make it right.
all of the above?
You win!🎉
Hey i enjoy your videos how about doing one together i am thinking buying one.❤❤
Doing what where?
The issue with the black tanks is they should be securely mounted wherein they do not move as being only strapped in they constantly move and all the fittings comes loose. And they should be gravity emptied. Or pumped out from top. Sorry. Poorly designed.
Cheap mounting choices. See the gas bottles as well.
e) all the above
edit: ayeeee i got it 😆
Hummmm..... I have watched more than several videos from you guys and I have to say............ man a tool, get to work, stop complaining, fix it AND go Sailing. I cant watch anymore.
The guys don't make the videos I do. xD
Monday and Tynan still hasn't heard if he will be paid. 🥲