Should knees to head on grounded opponent be legal in UFC?
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- Опубліковано 22 січ 2024
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Standing up and touching your fingertips is not (or should not be) grounded. You're not on the floor, you're standing up touching the floor.
Great point
I always have a third limb touching the floor
wasnt fingertips
his full palm was on the canvas not only fingertips
@@ovenstpiernot true
If there ever was a fight to make the case that grounded knees should be legal, that was it.
It isn't fair that you can dive in for unsafe takedowns and put yourself in a vulnerable positions knowing that the only possible counter is an "illegal" move.
The UFC really need to make a push to make grounded knees legal. And 12-6 elbows. How are those moves more dangerous than a wheel kick or slamming somebody onto their neck?
Also the title is misleading. According to the UNIFIED MMA rules, Movsar was NOT grounded. You need to be bearing weight on your arm, not scratching the mat.
not gonna happen
@@AXharoth It's already starting to happen. They made big changes to the rules after the Yan v Sterling fiasco.
This is a very good point that would actually address a lot of people who like to complain about wrestling taking over. It would add some significant balance. I feel like the Yan v Aljo fight was where this should've changed, but who knows. I don't know the process it takes to change these things, but it feels like it has to be stupid bureaucratic for it to not have happened yet.
I agree with everything you said, it’s on point. Sterling really messed everything up . He purposely grounded himself so his opponent wouldn’t attack him and he’s not the kind of fighter anyone should emulate .
It's also a pain because the unified rules aren't actually utilized in every fight card. Different commissions use different rule sets. Some use the unified ones your mention with the changes, some use the previous one, and actually Toronto was using new jerseys rule set from 2003 over the weekend. I'm pretty sure all three of those sets have different rule sets for knees to grounded opponent.
Yep, ONE has shown how dynamic grounded knees are to modern audiences. It's not that danger people think it is. It keeps certain positions far more dynamic than a stalling position. They need to be used in the UFC
💯💯💯
ONE can be criticised for a number of things but their ruleset is vastly superior. They have even been ratified in the US states of Colorado and Georgia so there is little excuse not to adopt them. No silly controversies about grounded fighters and more action.
Knees to grounded opponents should absolutely be legal imo, it would make takedown attempts much riskier, but it would also make dominant grappling positions on the ground far more lethal. Wrestlers are very coddled by the current rules when it comes to attempting takedowns. Overall it would make both striking and grappling more entertaining
This fight highlighted that spamming shots without consequences is a very real part of the UFC. The fact that this qualifies as a downed opponent is kind of crazy
Arnold was born with those knees, he should be proud of them.
The head thumps at 3:10 are hilarious, easily could be turned into a meme
ahaha for sure
The no knees to grounded opponents and the 12 to 6 elbow rules are the dumbest things in modern mma imho. Lets get rid of it. Absolutely unrealistic and abusable rules (especially the no knees rule) as seen in this fight. it just allows you to stall in a very very ad position and changed many fights in history for the worse.
Grounded knees, soccer kicks, 12-6 elbows should all be legal. Let the fight develop in its natural progression wherever it goes. The fighters can obviously adapt to it, as shown in one and pride.
@smerchh915 smashing with your fist is veryyyyy different than with you knee. The number of open skull will 📈📈📈 if those hits are not controlled. It's a sport at the end not the coliseum
You can kick someone in the head, elbow them in the eye, hyperextend their joints, twist their head in a neck crank, but kneeing a downed opponent in the head is where the line is drawn? It's almost as silly as the 12-6 elbow rule imo
There are reasons for those rules beyond the damage they do. It is how much damage, and how easy is the position to establish in order to use that weapon. Both 12-6 elbows and knees to grounded opponents are not illegal because they do too much damage but rather it is too easy to do to a person.
Yes. When you look at the amount of traumatic injury from them (extremely low), and compare that to the advantage it gives wrestlers (extremely high), it quickly becomes the most frustrating aspect of the fight to me. Feels like once a ppv I'm screaming "JUST GET RID OF IT!"
💯
@andrewf6111 a knee hit with full power on a person lying on the ground could just break their skull open like a coconut. I really don't think that's a good idea. But for the dolidze case he should clearly not be counted as a grounded opponents he was tickling the grounds with his fingertips it was ridiculous.
@@dovahkiin117 ok show me the video of that happening In pride or one fc? That's fine you feel that way but you're just wrong, it doesn't happen
There was an era of socker kicks and head stomps AND knees on the ground. 0 head splittings. Soooo... Stop it
@@jaycee571 (i never said it happen all the time but that the risk of injuries from those hits are way above every other, this sport is already dangerous enough, we are here to Witness epithom of martial art not some gladiator like bullshit) you were maybe enjoying those time bcs you were just here to see some blood but those hits are literally the most easy to do and uncompetitive as fuck, they were forbidden for a reason and UFC will become a huge joke if they allow this (which they will certainly not).
Evloav was saved by the ref. Arnold would’ve finished that fight
Allow the knees! I completely agree with Dan on this issue. There is something very annoying about fighters who use the rules to prevent an attack instead of a proper defensive technique
was there a case for allen taking that fight 2 rounds to 1? cruz banging on about how that cut sealed the fight for the other lad was bizarre when it happened in round 2, odd
Exactly! If they were legal I think the ground game would be way more risky and grappling/being grounded would be much more risky
If you have stomp kicks or soccer kicks wins on your record you are a legend.
Either allow knees or the hand on the mat rule just needs to go all together, downed opponent should equal something other than hands and feet on the mat just to eliminate that whole 'playing the game' nonsense. It just seems like the advantages go to the wrestler in UFC. That was a great fight between two great competitors, I knew Arnold Allen was good but he definitely exceeded my expectations with his grappling defense.
I honestly wrote Allen off, my fiance and I were watching at the time I completely thought Allen was in the wrong and my fiance thought Allen was absolutely legal doing so and was using a game plan of his. I know my girl actually pays attention now because she was up in arms about this (she also bet on Allen I did not) 😂😭
Make it so it has to be the elbow/knee down, that would make this situation impossible
Kneeing the hands on the floor can cripple fighters for life.
3:10 someone has to gif that 😂
All the crotch sniffing, takedown spamming grapplers are terrified of this idea....
See Grasso v Shevchenko. Knees were completely legal. I didn't know before that Valentina fight, now I do.
Stop protecting the cuddlers 😂
Knees to the head of a grounded opponent would make wrestling substantially more effective but it would change the meta a great deal as well.
Yes Dan finally your doing recaps for the fights, theres a huge hole for you to fill (pause) ahahaha but yh ive always wanted to here your analysis after the fight and your opinion, so lets go!!! hope this keeps going!!!
3:10 Me waiting on the "Legacy fight" mess to hurry TF up, so Tom can get his shot to unify.
I’m not sure we should make them legal. I think Allen is doing quite well with just a femur connected to the shin bone.
Allen should have been able to continue in that moment. I believe he would have gotten a TKO
Arnold Allens knees were legal. He was absolutely jipped out of the win.
Cope
@@istheway-gu6yo gay
Wish these knees were legal…
Allen vs Mosvar
Yan vs Sterling
Conor vs Khabib
Jones vs Smith
…and especially the Anderson Silva vs Yushin Okami upkick…
Weight bearing won't always make sense, but it will discourage the position for stalling, maybe that's enough. Make it a Grey enough area where fighters can't rely on it to stall.
In a perfect world we could gauge the intent of each fighter in real time. It's just a ugly stalling position, I think downed opponents should mean both knees down.
This will keep scrambles free game and eliminate these odd stalling positions but also keep us away from knee ground and pound attacks which are a bit too game ending.
Great video everybody been talking about this lately but no good videos on it
That dude was not grounded. He kept trying to touch his fingers to the mat.
Yeah. In any event, that shit was legal.
I think it’s good to not be able to knee a downed opponent so long as it’s not abused.
But I think groin kicks should be legal. They significantly impact fights. There’s no real risk of long term damage, especially if they still wear a cup. And fighters milk the 5 min rule a lot. Mostly, it changes how people fight. There would be a lot less squared stance to defend the takedown for example.
I also would like to see them reset to where previous round ended so you can’t stall in bottom mount and other inferior positions.
I would also like them to abandon the 10 point system and instead award points for different strikes, with none for takedowns or near subs, having strikes and completed subs being the reward for position.
100% should be allowed. It's a joke to watch a fighter baiting for a foul.
Just want to see how your doing Hardy? Hope all is well with family and career bro! Saying hello from Michigan
I think knees and kicks to the head should only be prohibited if the opponent is on their back
i don’t think putting your hand on the ground should suffice as a grounded opponent, should be like football with your knees or butt or back. second masvidal can sprint full speed and switch knee but if someone sprawls on a takedown you can’t knee the head that’s right in front of your legs???
Yes they should be legal
Disagree, protect yourself at all times
Should Arnold Allen's knees be legal in UFC? Yes. 12 to 6 elbows should be made legal also. Imo the only things that should be illegal is eye pokes and groin strikes.
and no back of the head
fish-hooking, hair pulling
I dont get the rule. People act like these things are impossible to defend or counter...
It would make people better MMA fighters imo
The safest position in the ufc is on your knees in front of another man.........change this rule
I couldn't agree more Dan, we see fighters staying in top half guard for position security, to score points with G&P, rather than trying to advance position and finish the fight - boring! DC amongst others is a big proponent of this tactic (no disrespect to the big man).
If knees to grounded opponents were allowed then I believe we would see a lot more fighters passing to side control and looking to finish.
They should definitely be legal. Would cut down on stalling in front headlock positions. The ambiguity of the 'downed opponent' helps no one. How about that ninja choke Allen had Evloev in??? Looked really dangerous! He spun out of it with no hesitation.
It would be cool to see you do a breakdown of Armfield's striking against Katona. I was loving his footwork and how he'd cut a sharp angle in the middle of an exchange.
Definitely should be legal. Time to start punishment for failed takedown attempts!!
Fingers on the ground is NOT a grounded opponent, the knees were legal, and if they’re legal Allen wins that round and the fight
those knees should be legal as fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
Knees to down opponents. Make side control great again 🇯🇵
Leaning in to the illegal knees to keep your hand on the floor should count as failing to defend yourself.
Why not make it so if the soles of your feet are on the floor then a knee or a kick to the head is legal?
I love this idea
Only issue could be if you are sitting or laying with bended knees so your soles are still touching the ground. But it might be good direction to go.
The people that are based in jujitsu wouldn't stand a chance in mma without these rules
Yes
Yes, legalize all strikes besides groin shots, eye gouges, and fish hooks.
YES. the rule is too advantageous for grapplers.
Honestly thought the rule was it had to be 2 hands on the canvas.. Is it just 1?
goddard fks up ANOTHER fight...worst ref ever. he shld be fined or fired. what a dckk
Elbows, punches, knees, and shins to the head when someone is standing are alright, but once a fingertip touches canvas, no more knees or kicks😂 what a joke
It should be either both palms and a knee on the floor or two knees on the floor.
*knees
We don't pluralise with apostrophes.
I want those knees back so bad. Nothing against wrestlers, but I think they really even out a few things.
Who do you think was actually kneeing people on the ground ?
Wrestlers from side control or the guy on the bottom...
This idea that it only helps grapplers is ridiculous.
Once they get taken to the ground...almost every fighter scoots to the cage and climbs up...
Guess who's not making it to standing without taking a knee to the face
its supposed to be weight baring when your not allowed to get kneed like getting up or falling, what that guy was doing was straight up trying to cheat the system. all those knees should be good otherwise it promotes sloppy shots with no consequences and unrealistic
Allow the knees, if you want to wrestle that’s the risk you’re taking, it’s a part of combat. It’s not anymore damaging then a flying knee, an elbow in the clinch, a headkick. It’s a stupid rule.
Literally want all the rules gone including rounds, 1 untimed round, no fence bring the Karate style pit.
Got it, Both palms or a knee on the canvas is a downed opponent.
More known for the yogis in the house, Downward Dog, downed opponent rule. 😯
The rule makes it confusing and dangerous for fighters, making it legal will actually make it safer and less drama.
If you can stand or jump and land a knee, then you can surely do it at any point.
glad you're uploading these "podcast-clip" style-vids now, and taking channel growth seriously. you have a lot of upside
If mousasi can tko weidman like this, then there should be no reason Allen couldn't try to do the same.
Any rule that allows you to utilise a vulnerable position for your advantage should be removed.
I think knees yes, kicks no. One removed soccer kicks from their ruleset cos it is too dangerous and ppl don't enjoy watching it.
Knees do change the game a lot though and I think currently grapplers have a disadvantage with the rules and scoring. Because damage is key, control time and take downs mean nothing if you can't get some damage in. Knees would make that more score criteria friendly.
But I think you can also change the rules of what a grounded opponent is. Make it one knee and ignore the hands or make it both hands. Just something to make it less ambiguous.
However, I do think that what happened in this fight was illegal. If you go to throw an illegal technique at someone even if you plan on pulling them up then it's cheating. Like if I went to soccer kick someone and they dodged I would expect to be warned for trying to do something illegal even if I didn't land it.
Hmm Itsuki Hirata.....sorry what were you saying Dan?😆
Yes 💯 legal
Of course they should be legal. I’m a judge for ONE Championship and they’ve been using them for years and we’ve never had a KO from them that is any different than any other KO. You can generate much more force with knees standing or flying than on the ground and those are perfectly legal. It’s a dumb rule that isn’t based on any actual evidence that they are any more devastating than any other legal knee.
Its hard to say because these rules are on a spectrum. Soccer kicks are too much for Dan, but knees like that arent enough. To others i think they might be all for soccer kicks and some not for any type of leg attack to a grounded opponent at all. I think knees to the head should be legal but I think not in a situation where the full body is down or the fighter is sitting or kneeling like Aljo did. That's too easy of a target to hit, but if they're just bent over trying to touch the floor for safety then have at it. it's complicated and messy.
That's pretty much the rules already. .one hand scratching at the ground and not weight bearing isn't a grounded opponent
I thought its not just the hand being in contact with the floor it had to be weight bearing. This sport is 30 years old there should be clear rules by now
Soccer kicks and head butts.
3:10 😂
Rules that are subjective can't work..They will always be controversial..
YES
YES! 100!!
allow all knees. the only reason why soccer kicks is a no go for me is the closed cage if in a ring im cool with them
The rule always favors the grappler/wrestlers. Look how aljo does it a lot and it's a semi safe zone for them. Can't stand the rule
Yes they should be legal. The entire thing puts fighters at even more risk.
Goddard fumbled it ... Again
If they're legal in other promotions and nothing tragic has happened then I don't see why not
In the modern day climate of lawsuits and increased data on head trauma, and the quest to bring the UFC further into the mainstream - they’re never going to change rules toward a more brutal sport - whether that’s a good or a bad thing, whether they should or shouldn’t - It just isn’t going to happen.
They were illegal. They specifically mentioned that for UFC 297 it is gonna used different Ontario MMA rules for grounded opponent where if any part of fighter outside his soles is touching ground he is grounded. Regardless of him not putting any weight on it. Normally it would be legal of course.
Probably not, but you can't tell me that Allen's knees to the head, were any less dangerous or damaging, long term, than Dan Henderson flying through the air and slamming his forearm into Bisping's unconscious brain
That's different, that was herb deans fault
I think go ahead and make them legal. No more grey area concerns to worry about in that case. Otherwise we'll end up with more of this. Guys playing the game on both sides; offensively and defensively. And yes sure head butts and and straight up soccer kicks to the head can be illegal, or not, up to you guys, either is fine to me. But, you can kick a guy to the head, as he's either transitioning up from or falling to the floor. Remember brothers, you can always tap. Stay strong, brothers.
And Dan, just like you said with the soccer kicks almost always being landed against already KO'd opponents, I think that is what they are worried about with the grounded knees, an opponent being completely out with their head jammed up against the cage, the ref on the other side of the cage just watching, and some numbskull, pardon the pun, to drive his knee through another guy's skull
Needs to be weight bearing and in my opinion they were legal.
I believe you need to be supporting your body weight for it to be illegal.Cant just touch the ground.Its a loophole for sure.
In that situation where they find themselves in danger and touch the ground to protect themselves then 100 yes it’s legal. It’s a fight you can’t touch the ground to get out of it! Even if it’s both hands! Use your arms to protect yourself and get out of the position. It happened previously think it was Gagard Mousasi kneeing someone in the exact same position!
Maybe force them to take a knee rather than hand down, It would make it a completely different fight.
and yes that hand down rule needs to be removed its such a pathetic way to fight, scooting the rules to get your opponent disqualified, its should be knee on the floor, not fingertips, or maybe full palm on the floor, completely flat.
People play on it more as it's a rule now people act like they are really hurt off it I bet if it wasn't a rule a lot more people would fight through them
If the soles of your feet are on the ground you shouldn't be classed as grounded. What your hands are doing should be irrelevant.
Hands on the ground makes no sense to me. If your knees are on the deck, that's different in my eyes.
I enjoyed that fight as well.
the knees or most of them were legal.
Yes, One does it perfectly fine. I honestly hate watching guys go out of their way to put their hand down or hide on the mat like Aljo
It should. Period!