What a stride old Vic had .amazing. certainly went under the radar to an extent because it was the French derby but showed there it was a special horse then .magnifique.
Steve Cauthens judgment of pace from the front was unbelievable, the ride he gave Old Vic was as impressive as the one he gave Slip Anchor 4 years previously, a rare talent
I think the Eclipse win which was only 2 weeks prior to the King George left a lasting effect on Nashwan. Willie Carson has been quoted as saying that he gave the 'so called' pacemaker far too much rope and asked his horse to make up the ground too quickly. That horse as it happens was Opening Verse who went on to win a Breeders Cup Mile in 1991. Champions in the shape of Indian Skimmer and Warning out with the washing as 'Nash The Dash' powered to a 5 length victory.
Henry Cecil in interview shortly before his passing on ATR said he should have had 2 more Derby winners. Old Vic and Belmez, he didn’t even consider Nashwan, did not say we might have beaten him at Epsom, simply that he felt he messed up and should have added another derby win. Multiple form lines show Vic better than Nashwan and Nashwan only rated 3rd by Timeform behind Vic and ZIlzal that year.
To this day I have still not seen any other jockey that is able to judge riding from the front at a proper gallop (none of these stop star sprint type rides we tend to get now) than Cauthen was able to do so regularly. This race along with Slip Anchor (in the Lingfield Derby Trial & Epsom Derby) & Reference Point (in the Dante, Derby, King George & St Leger) are all exceptional examples of the art that Cauthen not only perfected but did so on the biggest stages. Personally, I always thought that Old Vic would have beaten Nashwan especially if there was any kind of cut in the ground (it was good to soft for this race) and don't forget that he easily beat Ile De Nisky in the Irish Derby only about a length less than what Nashwan did at Epsom and that was in spite of all the drama they had before the race when they had to use a load of additional foam padding placed under his saddle to stop it from rubbing the abscess he had on his back. Had injury not ended his 3 yr old season I have little doubt that he would have gone on later in the year to win the Arc because if you wait for the 4th horse to past the post (some 16L behind Old Vic) you will find a horse by the name of Norberto who went on that year to finish 4L behind Carroll House in the Arc that jwas also run on good to soft ground....a case of what might have been.
I totally agree with you regarding Cauthens ability to judge the pace from the front is second to none, apparently it's something that he used to practice from a very early age, he's said on a recent interview, I give Old Vic credit because he wasn't necessary a one dimensional front runner, he won at Newmarket and Chester coming from of the pace, but I still think Nashwan would have had the edge if they had met.
Piggott was incredible riding from the front I believe he won ^Three or Four St Legers from the front also numerous staying races including the Gold Cup and Prix du Cadran, also Alleged in the Arc twice, from off the pace and from the front. I witnessed him ride a Four timer at a Night meeting every one was from the front, he knew pace inside out in that incredible mind of a Great Jockey. In the US he proved just as effective, he even rode two Italian Derby winners from the Front and Countless hundreds of others , Cauthen was a fine Jockey, but in all my years of owning and watching racing, nobody could touch him even when he was in his teens, I saw him win his first Derby and he certainly was not peturbed he took it like winning a Seller, that is how Piggott was, his judgement of pace was phenonemal, I saw him at Sandown in the Seventies Blocked in on the rails by Eric Eldin and in front by Starkey, he had two outside him with a furlong to run he had no chance, he took his Horse back, about Four lengths broght him around a wall of Horses finished up the hill with a flourish and won by a neck going away, he was not on a Favourite but a 9/1 shot in a Handicap carrying top weight, I believe it was Horse Trained by John Dunlop, he won on him again the next time as well. From the front! Sir Gordon Richards also was a fine rider from the front as was Edgar Britt the Australian also the other aussie Ron Hutchinson was good as well. In Britain virtually every racecourse has got a Difference, unlike the US where it is all on a Flat track over split times, Goodwood was said by Piggott to be a good front runners Course he proved it there many times over, I believe I saw him win a Stewards cup on the topweight Jukebox from the front as well.
I find it very hard when you look at the big races old Vic had won and yet Henry Cecil said that Frankel was the best horse he ever trained don't get me wrong Frankel was a brilliant horse but could he had won a race with a massive boil on his back like old Vic did.
I think Henry knows a bit more about it than you, or me. BTW it's not just Henry that said he was he best horse he had ever trained. 99% of racing professionals said Frankel was the best horse they had ever SEEN.
@@markperryman1797 It is a shame, I think we never really saw the best of Nashwan and I feel Old Vic would have brought out the best in him, but it certainly would have been a race to savour.
What a stride old Vic had .amazing. certainly went under the radar to an extent because it was the French derby but showed there it was a special horse then .magnifique.
Steve Cauthens judgment of pace from the front was unbelievable, the ride he gave Old Vic was as impressive as the one he gave Slip Anchor 4 years previously, a rare talent
Another Steve Cauthen masterclass.
I think the Eclipse win which was only 2 weeks prior to the King George left a lasting effect on Nashwan. Willie Carson has been quoted as saying that he gave the 'so called' pacemaker far too much rope and asked his horse to make up the ground too quickly. That horse as it happens was Opening Verse who went on to win a Breeders Cup Mile in 1991. Champions in the shape of Indian Skimmer and Warning out with the washing as 'Nash The Dash' powered to a 5 length victory.
That is how you cover the ground. Poetry. Would have been great to see him take on Nashwan.
Henry Cecil in interview shortly before his passing on ATR said he should have had 2 more Derby winners. Old Vic and Belmez, he didn’t even consider Nashwan, did not say we might have beaten him at Epsom, simply that he felt he messed up and should have added another derby win. Multiple form lines show Vic better than Nashwan and Nashwan only rated 3rd by Timeform behind Vic and ZIlzal that year.
Breathtaking performance.Pity the video does not show the slow motion of Old Vic stretching out,its something else,
To this day I have still not seen any other jockey that is able to judge riding from the front at a proper gallop (none of these stop star sprint type rides we tend to get now) than Cauthen was able to do so regularly. This race along with Slip Anchor (in the Lingfield Derby Trial & Epsom Derby) & Reference Point (in the Dante, Derby, King George & St Leger) are all exceptional examples of the art that Cauthen not only perfected but did so on the biggest stages.
Personally, I always thought that Old Vic would have beaten Nashwan especially if there was any kind of cut in the ground (it was good to soft for this race) and don't forget that he easily beat Ile De Nisky in the Irish Derby only about a length less than what Nashwan did at Epsom and that was in spite of all the drama they had before the race when they had to use a load of additional foam padding placed under his saddle to stop it from rubbing the abscess he had on his back.
Had injury not ended his 3 yr old season I have little doubt that he would have gone on later in the year to win the Arc because if you wait for the 4th horse to past the post (some 16L behind Old Vic) you will find a horse by the name of Norberto who went on that year to finish 4L behind Carroll House in the Arc that jwas also run on good to soft ground....a case of what might have been.
I totally agree with you regarding Cauthens ability to judge the pace from the front is second to none, apparently it's something that he used to practice from a very early age, he's said on a recent interview, I give Old Vic credit because he wasn't necessary a one dimensional front runner, he won at Newmarket and Chester coming from of the pace, but I still think Nashwan would have had the edge if they had met.
Piggott was incredible riding from the front I believe he won ^Three or Four St Legers from the front also numerous staying races including the Gold Cup and Prix du Cadran, also Alleged in the Arc twice, from off the pace and from the front.
I witnessed him ride a Four timer at a Night meeting every one was from the front, he knew pace inside out in that incredible mind of a Great Jockey. In the US he proved just as effective, he even rode two Italian Derby winners from the Front and Countless hundreds of others , Cauthen was a fine Jockey, but in all my years of owning and watching racing, nobody could touch him even when he was in his teens, I saw him win his first Derby and he certainly was not peturbed he took it like winning a Seller, that is how Piggott was, his judgement of pace was phenonemal, I saw him at Sandown in the Seventies Blocked in on the rails by Eric Eldin and in front by Starkey, he had two outside him with a furlong to run he had no chance, he took his Horse back, about Four lengths broght him around a wall of Horses finished up the hill with a flourish and won by a neck going away, he was not on a Favourite but a 9/1 shot in a Handicap carrying top weight, I believe it was Horse Trained by John Dunlop, he won on him again the next time as well. From the front!
Sir Gordon Richards also was a fine rider from the front as was Edgar Britt the Australian also the other aussie Ron Hutchinson was good as well. In Britain virtually every racecourse has got a Difference, unlike the US where it is all on a Flat track over split times, Goodwood was said by Piggott to be a good front runners Course he proved it there many times over, I believe I saw him win a Stewards cup on the topweight Jukebox from the front as well.
I find it very hard when you look at the big races old Vic had won and yet Henry Cecil said that Frankel was the best horse he ever trained don't get me wrong Frankel was a brilliant horse but could he had won a race with a massive boil on his back like old Vic did.
I think Henry knows a bit more about it than you, or me. BTW it's not just Henry that said he was he best horse he had ever trained. 99% of racing professionals said Frankel was the best horse they had ever SEEN.
Yes I think he would have, he was a very great horse and Cecil knew his Horses. I saw him win three of his races, against very good fields easily.
Not "Way superior" to Nashwan,but superior in my humble opinion.
As willy Carson said Old Vic was given to much rope in the French Derby.
Too much rope?Old Vic was amazing at Chantilly, Nashwan would not have got near him that day.
@@nightowl7459 Old Vic galloped them into the ground....shame him and Nashwan never met...
@@markperryman1797 It is a shame, I think we never really saw the best of Nashwan and I feel Old Vic would have brought out the best in him, but it certainly would have been a race to savour.
@@nightowl7459 Why do you say we never saw the best of Nashwan, I'm baffled sir?🤔