One thing that's wrong in the desc and the video, the ICE would be freewheeling through the station while it's switching power systems, with the internal lighting/heating/etc running on battery. ICE3's don't have diesel generators, ICE TD's do. Just wanted to point that out.
very nice video! respect! Switching traction current - this is very important and very serious. I myself have been working on the railway transport 20 years. I drive an electric locomotive.
Thank you for the reaction. But "diesel mode" is a switch position in Emmerich that allows trains to keep running over the main tracks, instead of being diverted to a run-out section for the arriving electric locomotive. It assumes that through trains must have their own power system (diesel) or would end up under a conflicting overhead voltage. Hence "diesel mode" is used for electric trains that can adapt. No real diesels involved.
Do they changed the current at the Brenner Pass, like in the video? I seen many videos of the Brenner Pass and it seems if a locomotive that has coast into say the Italian side and cannot take 3kv DC, it has to be pushed back to the Austrian side by a shunting loco. My understanding at the Brenner Pass, there is a section of overhead wire that is permanently not electrified, where say the 3kv DC ends and the 15kv ac starts. I have seen multivoltage locos coast along with their pantographs down, probably at the neutral zone none electrified section. When they reached their correct voltage section , they raise their appropriate pantograph. Then the continue their journey.
Emmerich is the unic station with 15 KV AC 16,67 Hz, and 1500 V DC, in Europe Before 2014, the second station was GENEVE( switching systeme, like Emmerich), during summer 2014, Bellegarde-Genève( SNCF Lyon-Geneve line), was converted to 25 KV AC 50 Hz. However, tracks 7 and 8 in Cornavin( Geneva Station), are switching. Beetwen France and Switzerland, now, there is only 25 KV AC 50 Hz, and 15 KV AC 16,67 Hz. For remember, Bellegarde-Genève was electrified with 1500 V DC in 1956. The last 1500 V DC train, in spring 2014, was a special train organized by APMFS group( French association in Savoy, in Chambéry), with the 1500 V DC locomotive, the CC 6558. This locomotive, may working on NS system( the same electric system than SNCF DC system) With the new BR 187 "last mile " locomotives, this machine may evolue on pure 1500 V DC electric lines in Emmerich, with low pantographs, in " last mile modus"( low power diesel generating set)
I spotted this engine at a railyard in Rotterdam this year, it is now out of service and is doesn't come back on track. [url=flic.kr/p/Jrpskq][img]c7.staticflickr.com/8/7365/27854472822_ff05599742_z.jpg[/img][/url][url=flic.kr/p/Jrpskq]DB 1602[/url] by [url=www.flickr.com/photos/135875948@N08/]Huib Smit[/url], on Flickr
5: 18 you mean??? Some of those coaches have no bed so you might be sitting up all night. Guess the guy needs to stretch his legs. It is far too early on the day to invite a lady for a dance..
The distance between the substations is indeed quite similar to early UK and current French DC electrifications. That's a common law, lest you must have feeder bars of a square foot copper along the track ;-) For the newly built hispeed and heavy freight lines 4 MW does not suffice and thus the catenary feeds 25000 Volts there. For the sections under 1500 V the power must be reduced in the hispeed trains or in the locomotives that haul freight trains. Software provides the limitation.
@danishown2 As I am told the outer two are for AC and at least one of the inner two is for DC. They differ in contact strips that are of aluminium and graphite respectively, a consequence of the much higher current (Amps) that you need to accomplish about 4 megawatts under DC. Also the swing tolerance of the catenary wires differs between the countries. A wider swing reduces wear on the contacts strips but it requires more free space overhead that conflicts with older tunnels.
Diesel mode is used with Bi-mode locomotive( like " Last Mile " BR 187 BOMBARDIER lok) BR 187 is an electric locomotive built by BOMBARDIER, 2 frequency lok( 25 KV AC 50 Hz, and 15 KV AC 16,67 Hz). For moving on unelectrified tracks or 1500 V DC, or 3000 V DC tracks, the lok don' t use pantographs and uses the " last mile modus "( diesel mode low power)
In india we had 1500 V DC sections and the rest of the country on 25KV AC. The interchanging between the voltages was done with dual voltage locomotive and a neutral section of about 300 Mtrs. The loco would lower the panto with the train coasting into the neutral section and raise the panto that corresponds to the section. Here i see no such neutral section. May be they change the feed with suitable breaks in the OHE conductor. Nice video.
The problem here is not only the 15kv AC (Germany) and the 1,5kv DC (Netherlands). In Europe there's also Nations with 3kV DC and 25kV AC Systems, or even mixed systems. There are many Multi-System locomotives that are being used in such situations. The real challenge is always the train protection system. And therefore the locomotive has not only to support the Voltage, but also the protection system and therefore also have the homologation of the nation's authorities. The German ICE trains for example can drive in France (1,5kV DC & 25kV AC), Belgium (3kV DC) and the Netherlands (1,5kV DC). Of course also to Austria or Switzerland (15kV AC) The EuroCity Trains from Berlin to the Czech Republic (3kV DC) also have Multi-System locomotives. There are even more examples. This Year the DB ordered completely new trainsets to replace the entire train shown in the Video. Of course it will also be capable for Multi-System operations. This means: the procedure shown in the video will soon be history.
1:14 This ICE known as 406 hasn‘t a „Diesel Mode“. The traindriver switched the 1,5kV DC to 15kV AC when the Pantos are down. Also the Power at the wires will be switched the same. After ok from the signal box the driver will lift the panto for the right power.
If the Jan Kipura was still running right now it would have been carrying EU44 Taurus or EU46 Vectron locomotives from Duisburg Hbf to Emmerich where it would just coast through the 25kv 50hz then Zevenaar 1.5kv DC 25kv 50hz voltage changeover point. Where NS1600 will just carry the train Arnhem Utrecht Amsterdam 118 km 73 mi.
Niet op die manier. Bij de (verplichte) boedelscheiding van NS in een reizigers- en een goederen vervoerder viel een deel van de 1600-en aan Railon toe. Die hielden het nummer 16xx terwijl NS reizigers de 1600 en naar 18xx vernummerde. Deze 1800-en zijn nu einde levensduur en worden gesloopt (jammer voor de DDM-0 treinen) of verkocht aan particuliere bedrijven als BE en anderen. De reizigers treinen waar nog locomotieven voor nodig zijn rijden met 1700- en.
@TheDennis150 5: 18 you mean??? Some of those coaches have no bed so you might be sitting up all night. Guess the guy needs to stretch his legs. It is far too early on the day to invite a lady for a dance..
It's all still going on the same way, mostly every freight train has an BR189 engine and can pass without even needing to stop, but the CNL and ENL trains are switching engines all the time.
Is 4MW the most you can draw from catenary at 1500v dc on Netherlands Railways? How far apart are the Substations? They used to be about 6-10km apart when we used 1500v dc in the UK.
No, sorry for the confusion. ICE just coasts through while changing it's electric power system. "Diesel mode" is a term connected to Emmerich signalling. For security, incoming electric trains are switched to a run-out track to prevent them from continuing under an alien power system. A diesel unit, of course, had no such limitations, so the safety could be overrun by switching to "Diesel mode". The Emmerich system came in use in 1966, with the electrification. Diesel power, in those years, was most applied for freight trains running through. All passenger trains had to call until 1991 to board or alight border control staff. Since a few years, btw, the change of power systems in Emmerich no longer exists. Power changes now occur on the fly on the tracks to Arnhem. First, near Elten, from 15kV AC 16 c/s to 25 kV AC 50 c/s. Then, beyond the Dutch border near Zevenaar, from 25 kV AC 50 c/s to 1500 V DC. For modern electric stock no problem, but you will no longer see these yellow locomotives in Emmerich.
True. But we still might see engine changes that save the multivoltage or even diesel engines for the tracks into NL whereas older single voltage engines carry the trains further into or from Germany.
+Park Max It's the 1500 Volt machine. It puts up it's 2nd pantograph to reduce the current taken from the overhead at a certain location during too long time. When some speed is achieved the front pantograph drops.
French most powerful 1.5Kv machines (CC 6500) could reach 6000KW which translates into 4000 amps. There have been cases of meltdowns (either catenary or pantograph) especially when starting a heavy train at a station. The second Pantograph helps a lot indeed.
Maybe, lol... First a good (light) front visibility is required, so a red loco from a freight company needs a white or yellow front. In the 1970's, there was a requirement for distinction of public transport in regular service. Remind that most public transport was more or less nationalized. Hence, trains, buses and trams in regular service got a yellow paint. After privatization of public transport concessions in the late 90's it was mostly reversed. Just National Railways, now one of the private companies, has still much stock in yellow, but that is also changing.
One thing that's wrong in the desc and the video, the ICE would be freewheeling through the station while it's switching power systems, with the internal lighting/heating/etc running on battery. ICE3's don't have diesel generators, ICE TD's do. Just wanted to point that out.
very nice video! respect!
Switching traction current - this is very important and very serious. I myself have been working on the railway transport 20 years. I drive an electric locomotive.
Thank you for the reaction. But "diesel mode" is a switch position in Emmerich that allows trains to keep running over the main tracks, instead of being diverted to a run-out section for the arriving electric locomotive. It assumes that through trains must have their own power system (diesel) or would end up under a conflicting overhead voltage. Hence "diesel mode" is used for electric trains that can adapt. No real diesels involved.
Do they changed the current at the Brenner Pass, like in the video? I seen many videos of the Brenner Pass and it seems if a locomotive that has coast into say the Italian side and cannot take 3kv DC, it has to be pushed back to the Austrian side by a shunting loco. My understanding at the Brenner Pass, there is a section of overhead wire that is permanently not electrified, where say the 3kv DC ends and the 15kv ac starts. I have seen multivoltage locos coast along with their pantographs down, probably at the neutral zone none electrified section. When they reached their correct voltage section , they raise their appropriate pantograph. Then the continue their journey.
Emmerich is the unic station with 15 KV AC 16,67 Hz, and 1500 V DC, in Europe
Before 2014, the second station was GENEVE( switching systeme, like Emmerich), during summer 2014, Bellegarde-Genève( SNCF Lyon-Geneve line), was converted to 25 KV AC 50 Hz. However, tracks 7 and 8 in Cornavin( Geneva Station), are switching.
Beetwen France and Switzerland, now, there is only 25 KV AC 50 Hz, and 15 KV AC 16,67 Hz.
For remember, Bellegarde-Genève was electrified with 1500 V DC in 1956. The last 1500 V DC train, in spring 2014, was a special train organized by APMFS group( French association in Savoy, in Chambéry), with the 1500 V DC locomotive, the CC 6558. This locomotive, may working on NS system( the same electric system than SNCF DC system)
With the new BR 187 "last mile " locomotives, this machine may evolue on pure 1500 V DC electric lines in Emmerich, with low pantographs, in " last mile modus"( low power diesel generating set)
I spotted this engine at a railyard in Rotterdam this year, it is now out of service and is doesn't come back on track.
[url=flic.kr/p/Jrpskq][img]c7.staticflickr.com/8/7365/27854472822_ff05599742_z.jpg[/img][/url][url=flic.kr/p/Jrpskq]DB 1602[/url] by [url=www.flickr.com/photos/135875948@N08/]Huib Smit[/url], on Flickr
Piekny Jan Kiepura szkoda że juz nie jeżdzi😪😪
5:18 LOL look between the engine and the rail car XD there is a man dancing XDD
5: 18 you mean??? Some of those coaches have no bed so you might be sitting up all night. Guess the guy needs to stretch his legs. It is far too early on the day to invite a lady for a dance..
The distance between the substations is indeed quite similar to early UK and current French DC electrifications. That's a common law, lest you must have feeder bars of a square foot copper along the track ;-) For the newly built hispeed and heavy freight lines 4 MW does not suffice and thus the catenary feeds 25000 Volts there. For the sections under 1500 V the power must be reduced in the hispeed trains or in the locomotives that haul freight trains. Software provides the limitation.
@danishown2 As I am told the outer two are for AC and at least one of the inner two is for DC. They differ in contact strips that are of aluminium and graphite respectively, a consequence of the much higher current (Amps) that you need to accomplish about 4 megawatts under DC.
Also the swing tolerance of the catenary wires differs between the countries. A wider swing reduces wear on the contacts strips but it requires more free space overhead that conflicts with older tunnels.
Waht the hell is "Diesel Mode" ?? :-o
WE
Read the comments. It is explained below
Diesel mode is used with Bi-mode locomotive( like " Last Mile " BR 187 BOMBARDIER lok)
BR 187 is an electric locomotive built by BOMBARDIER, 2 frequency lok( 25 KV AC 50 Hz, and 15 KV AC 16,67 Hz).
For moving on unelectrified tracks or 1500 V DC, or 3000 V DC tracks, the lok don' t use pantographs and uses the " last mile modus "( diesel mode low power)
CD sleepingcar praha Amsterdam,en jan depura warsawa Amsterdam with rzd sleepingcar from moscow?
And Minsk.
In india we had 1500 V DC sections and the rest of the country on 25KV AC. The interchanging between the voltages was done with dual voltage locomotive and a neutral section of about 300 Mtrs. The loco would lower the panto with the train coasting into the neutral section and raise the panto that corresponds to the section.
Here i see no such neutral section. May be they change the feed with suitable breaks in the OHE conductor.
Nice video.
The problem here is not only the 15kv AC (Germany) and the 1,5kv DC (Netherlands). In Europe there's also Nations with 3kV DC and 25kV AC Systems, or even mixed systems. There are many Multi-System locomotives that are being used in such situations.
The real challenge is always the train protection system. And therefore the locomotive has not only to support the Voltage, but also the protection system and therefore also have the homologation of the nation's authorities.
The German ICE trains for example can drive in France (1,5kV DC & 25kV AC), Belgium (3kV DC) and the Netherlands (1,5kV DC). Of course also to Austria or Switzerland (15kV AC) The EuroCity Trains from Berlin to the Czech Republic (3kV DC) also have Multi-System locomotives. There are even more examples.
This Year the DB ordered completely new trainsets to replace the entire train shown in the Video. Of course it will also be capable for Multi-System operations. This means: the procedure shown in the video will soon be history.
The practice still occurs at Aachen Hbf SNCB HLE18 Brussels Midi Aachen Hbf gets dropped for a Taurus locomotive DB br 182 ÖBB1116/1016
Patri services
5:09 mooi aanzetgeluid
🧡🧡❤️❤️💜
1:14
This ICE known as 406 hasn‘t a „Diesel Mode“. The traindriver switched the 1,5kV DC to 15kV AC when the Pantos are down. Also the Power at the wires will be switched the same. After ok from the signal box the driver will lift the panto for the right power.
dit was niet zomaar een 1600, dit was de Raillion 1602 (Schiphol), eigenlijk een vrachtloc dus
If the Jan Kipura was still running right now it would have been carrying EU44 Taurus or EU46 Vectron locomotives from Duisburg Hbf to Emmerich where it would just coast through the 25kv 50hz then Zevenaar 1.5kv DC 25kv 50hz voltage changeover point. Where NS1600 will just carry the train Arnhem Utrecht Amsterdam 118 km 73 mi.
Niet op die manier. Bij de (verplichte) boedelscheiding van NS in een reizigers- en een goederen vervoerder viel een deel van de 1600-en aan Railon toe. Die hielden het nummer 16xx terwijl NS reizigers de 1600 en naar 18xx vernummerde. Deze 1800-en zijn nu einde levensduur en worden gesloopt (jammer voor de DDM-0 treinen) of verkocht aan particuliere bedrijven als BE en anderen. De reizigers treinen waar nog locomotieven voor nodig zijn rijden met 1700- en.
@TheDennis150 5: 18 you mean??? Some of those coaches have no bed so you might be sitting up all night. Guess the guy needs to stretch his legs. It is far too early on the day to invite a lady for a dance..
It's all still going on the same way, mostly every freight train has an BR189 engine and can pass without even needing to stop, but the CNL and ENL trains are switching engines all the time.
Aber es gibt auch Euronightzüge mit der Baureihe 189
Great Video. very interesting to watch. Unfortunately those times are gone. Almost everything got replaced by engined coachea crap
Is 4MW the most you can draw from catenary at 1500v dc on Netherlands Railways? How far apart are the Substations? They used to be about 6-10km apart when we used 1500v dc in the UK.
Nice train video. Thanks for sharing. Joe
Ctnl with wl praha Amsterdam?
Verder een leuke video hoor 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Ooff. DB loco: clean NL: lol
ICE has a diesel mode? Its true, you learn something new everyday I had no idea of this
No, sorry for the confusion. ICE just coasts through while changing it's electric power system. "Diesel mode" is a term connected to Emmerich signalling. For security, incoming electric trains are switched to a run-out track to prevent them from continuing under an alien power system. A diesel unit, of course, had no such limitations, so the safety could be overrun by switching to "Diesel mode". The Emmerich system came in use in 1966, with the electrification. Diesel power, in those years, was most applied for freight trains running through. All passenger trains had to call until 1991 to board or alight border control staff.
Since a few years, btw, the change of power systems in Emmerich no longer exists. Power changes now occur on the fly on the tracks to Arnhem. First, near Elten, from 15kV AC 16 c/s to 25 kV AC 50 c/s. Then, beyond the Dutch border near Zevenaar, from 25 kV AC 50 c/s to 1500 V DC.
For modern electric stock no problem, but you will no longer see these yellow locomotives in Emmerich.
Nice place
..behind wunderwasser wunderland
okay ty
sadly no more engine change at Emmerich as multi voltage traction is needed now with the current breake mid line nowadays
True. But we still might see engine changes that save the multivoltage or even diesel engines for the tracks into NL whereas older single voltage engines carry the trains further into or from Germany.
Much like from Vienna to Budapest, I know from experience!
here in brazil, the substations are 3KV.
AC or DC?
@@e1woqf Probably DC, since 3 kV is usually DC.
first time i am seeing two pantograph open at the same time...why so
+Park Max It's the 1500 Volt machine. It puts up it's 2nd pantograph to reduce the current taken from the overhead at a certain location during too long time. When some speed is achieved the front pantograph drops.
@@spoorus I have noticed this is also done in France when stopping or starting on 1500v dc routes
French most powerful 1.5Kv machines (CC 6500) could reach 6000KW which translates into 4000 amps. There have been cases of meltdowns (either catenary or pantograph) especially when starting a heavy train at a station. The second Pantograph helps a lot indeed.
It is 1800 Volt DC today
Nee dat komt doordat door de vervanging van kwikdampgelijkrichters door siliciumgelijkrichters in de onderstations.
Rick Huyzer Het spijt me, je hebt , neem ik aan :P, gelijk =)
***** Oei oei zat Le Matthies foutjes te maken?
Haha maar Le Sebastiaan praat wel verder op Le Skype of Whapp ;p
Interesting demo of traction and voltage change
Why Dutch locomotives are yellow? Is it to have an association with Dutch cheese?
Maybe, lol... First a good (light) front visibility is required, so a red loco from a freight company needs a white or yellow front. In the 1970's, there was a requirement for distinction of public transport in regular service. Remind that most public transport was more or less nationalized. Hence, trains, buses and trams in regular service got a yellow paint. After privatization of public transport concessions in the late 90's it was mostly reversed. Just National Railways, now one of the private companies, has still much stock in yellow, but that is also changing.