Memotron and M4000D
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- They certainly do have their own advantages and shortcomings.
00:01 - 3 Violins
02:23 - Flute
03:09 - Pitch Bend
04:04 - Lowpass Filter
05:10 - High & Low Ramp
06:48 - Flute Flutters
08:30 - Boys Choir
11:40 - Choir & Strings
13:27 - Attack & Release
16:34 - 8 Voice Choir
17:42 - Note Duration
18:42 - Church Organ
20:00 - Voice of Necam (M4000D)
Excellent and interesting comparison! Thanks!
It seems there is more of a difference between the Memotron and the Mellotron M4000D than when I do side by side comparisons of my vintage 1972 M400 Mellotron and my M4000D.
It really helps if the listener has heard or played an authentic Mellotron (which run "dry" through an amp) isn't much like anything "Tron" you've heard on a favorite recording - and if someone wants authenticity the Memotron is hands down more true to the original instrument. One day these will be highly sought after in a future world flooded with "digital Mellotrons."
Well said! The first and only time I've heard a real Mellotron was December 2nd, 2023. Everything about it, the hugeness and the attack makes all the digital versions seem.... quaint.
Heh, thks for the support. In my day (oh here we go) there were a couple of club bands with a Melly 300 or maybe a Novatron. I knew the keyboard player from one of these bands and they covered Moody Blues, Crimson, etc even did a nice cover of Aerosmith's "Dream On" which has Tron in it.
The bigger music stores had them on display once in a while and they were pretty cool about letting people play...sometimes. But too be honest I spent way more time on twisting knobs on an ARP 2500 or the other synthesizers than the Mellotrons in the store. To me the organ-style keyboards were easier to play. The M-300 keys were thick and blocky...I am sure I would have gotten used to that if I had the bread to buy it, which I didnt!
What people don’t get is... The M4000D is the sound of [a Mellotron] and a perfect template to begin painting upon with the wow and flutter of your making, and using any other digital Mellotron sampled direct from an analog machine isn’t the sound of a Mellotron but rather a copy of THAT particular sole machine which will differ from any other analog Mellotron. So for me the M4000D is the masterclass machine for crafting your own individual Mellotron signature.
That is well said. I wonder how it would go if a marvelous "painting" were done for the M4000D but then swap in the Memotron so that the comparison would be done in the M4000D's world instead of a head-to-head showdown without effects.
That'd be a fun project, to mangle the M4000D. There was that one Reverb video that involved a lot of Earthquaker effects pedals. You could take the M4000D Master XLR out into a Little Imp and run it through a bunch of pedals.
I think of the mellotron as the simplest .wav one-shot playback machine ever. I expect the same sound on ever key that lasts about 8 seconds. Through an effect on it and that's it. For someone looking backwards, trying to recreate old stuff, it seems the Memotron suits me better.
This is exactly the opposite of what the M4000D is. It's the direct sound of the tapes, rather than of the Mellotron itself. That's where the contention lies. So it is not the sound of a mellotron at all. There is NO mellotron between the sound source and the digital playback. It could come from a world where mellotron never even existed. Whereas having sounds sampled from an actual machine built to play the tapes, THAT is the PHYSICAL sound of a mellotron. And that's what a Memotron does.
H A L F N E L S O N TRAX
Sorry, I completely disagree! Imo the Memotron is awesome but it is the sound of whichever machine(s) (Mellotron) they sampled, with all that particular machine’s signature wow and flutter, and that just not appealing to me to re-use that specific machines idiosyncrasies now being played by everybody. To me it is just copy/pasting now generic samples . The M4000D has pure (untouched) Mellotron magic to be wowed and fluttered uniquely, and individually by the artist. Also, the M4000D has options to degrade the tapes to dial in desired wow and flutter, etc.
@@Flibbybibby Agreed. And a fair amount of the "Mellotron sound/charm" comes from the performances of the original samples and the way they were recorded.
@@JohnLRice I heard the Mellotron sounds the other week and was enchanted and in heaven. Now, about half an hour ago i heard the Memotron for the first time and .......well....not enchanted at all....now arrived here for a direct comparison....hmmm, i don't know, something really pulls me towards the Mellotron M4000D.
The Memotron sounds a lot closer to the original tape instrument. The new digital sounds almost to perfect and the old 400 was not perfect and that is what made it so great.
I never knew there was a Mellotron style instrument called the Memotron. When I saw the title I no joke thought it was going to be about a Mellotron but it has meme sounds for tapes lmao.
Rick Wakeman had a Memotron in his rig for a while. Maybe still does. I probably wouldn't have known about the Memotron if it weren't for those videos from 2016.
Over the moon waiting for the Fedex man to bring this baby home. Ive played many instruments but the distant tones are like memory candy , no matter . cant wait to roam with this. You play sweet 🌻
The Memotron’s approach is equivalent to people fighting a new war by using weapons replicated from the civil war. The Mellotron M4000D’s approach is to use the newest weapons available (i.e. a clean pitch-perfect high definition uncompressed recording) like they did during the actual civil war. The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Moody Blues and Genesis didn’t obsess over old equipment and neither do the folks at Mellotron. But if civil war re-enactments is your cup of tea, the Memotron awaits-in “CD” quality. Leave the glorious high-definition uncompressed *Treasure Tones* to the Beatles/Rolling Stones/Moody Blues and Genesis fans.
Ehhhh, I dunno. Some Mellotron M4000D tapes sound flat, but that's just me obsessing. Cheerio
@@troublesomecorsair So, just from my 1st impression: The other week i first heard the M4000D and i was enchanted and in heaven and right there and then decided i will save up and buy one. Not the big one but the one for 2000,-. So a few minutes ago i find out there is this Memotron too. Excited about it i listen to it but .....i don't know....it didn't do much at all. Now i arrived at your video with the direct 1 on 1, so i'll guess and see, i mean hear....
@@lowandodor1150 Good luck! I keep flip-flopping on which I prefer. I do like the 3 sounds on the tape knob of the Memotron but I like all the extra under-the-hood options of the M4000D which change the character of the sounds noticeably (EQ settings/tape age, attack and release, individual key velocity, start point). I would like to try the Memotron keyboard one day. I have tried the M4000D, the mini and the micro. The micro is a bit clumsy because it doesn't start with an F key like the DSI Mopho keyboard, and I couldn't find a Local Off setting for it. The Mini's keyboard is nice but very stiff. The M4000D is every bit as posh and premium as can be. My main hesitation with the Memo is that the output volume was so quiet from the main jacks. I ended up using the headphone outs instead. I've read on forums that other folks had this same issue. Otherwise I find the soundsets for the Memo more varied and interesting with all the synth and organ related sounds in the expansion packs.
Otherwise the Korg Kronos has the most common tape sets (brass, flute, violins, choir)
along with the free GSi Gemini expansion for other hardware alternatives. The Hammond SK-Pro also includes Tape Flutes, Choir and Strings but no Brass. I'm sure the Nord library has Mello sounds but I've never owned a Nord that wasn't the Electro 2.
@@troublesomecorsair Okay, wow...that is a lot to consider. I don't know, somehow i am definitely pulled towards the M4000D. I sure would like the big version, but for those extra 800€....if i had the money, i'd def go for the big one.
I get a bit bewildered by certain comments, not here, but some say how Markus just recently bought the name and has no affiliation with the original makers and from what i know so far, that is utterly false, as he has been in contact with those people since the early 90s and has been building Mellotrons since the late 90s. Then the digital ones from the late 2000s.
I don't know man...here i go again, i see something and then there are all these other, countless options appearing out of nowhere, haha!
I seriously doubt the high def samples in the Mellotron “add” anything to the sound…more like, it ensures there’s no degradation or anything else clouding the original sounds. HD is such a trigger to the analog junkies and ultra purists. This idea that the Memotron only has CD quality and therefore somehow closer to the original because the Mellotron has “HD” seems absolutely preposterous. HD doesn’t “take” anything away or “add” some kind of digital sheen to the sound!!!
Memotron sounds like it would fit in the mix much better as is. There’s more high end and slightly less low end. Those are usually the things you end up adding and cutting anyway. Also I like the grittier quality of the Memotron myself.
What a wonderful sound. It's almost as if it was recorded from ANGELS from HEAVEN!??!?!
More Mellotron videos please! I love how it sounds
^
Thanks for this video.....i hesitated between the 2 machines.....
Same. There's a lot of differences to weigh. In my opinion, a keyboard version of things is always best, but if there is no space, it must be desktop or rack. I have no desktop space beyond a Roland SE-02 and an Ext Box, so presently I am playing the M4000D Rack version. I do miss the A B C knob of the Memotron for fading among three sounds instead of the M4000D's two.
Running the M4000D into a DI Box with a Reverb guitar pedal as an Insert effect, then using a Little Imp to switch the impedance into a Vent II makes me feel like a genius, but having built-in effects like the Memo helps clean up the jungle of cables, both audio and power.
Another option to consider is the Gsi Gemini Rack or Desktop. It connects wirelessly to my tablet very well (not so great with a laptop). It has all the essential samples free to download and superb effects.
that was excellent! now i can buy my memotron!
Would you like to buy mine? :)
@@troublesomecorsair sure where are you from ?
send me an email.
@@skeletonarchives9321 I'm all the way out in California, USA. I like the Memotron very much! Are you looking to buy the keyboard version or the module? One thing to note is that the Left and Right outputs are very quiet. For recording, so as not to turn the gain up so high, I use a Y-cable with the Headphone output instead of using the normal Left and Right outs. I also bought an expansion pack. It's a simple CD that comes in a DVD case. I copied the data from the CD onto the SD card that comes with the Memotron and then Imported the directory with the new sounds inside.
@@skeletonarchives9321 did he buy it or is it still available I'm looking to get one of these
i 'm looking for a Memotron but now i am really not shure this sounds better than my e-mu proteus basicly 1 & 2 Orchestral!
This is the longest upload in quite a while. And it sounds pretty nice. Like and subscribe... ;)
Every time I hear a comparison of these two, I wonder why the M4000 won out in the public opinion. The Memotron has that raw gritty character of a Mellotron more so that the M4000, which sounds more like polite and clean to my ears, more like a modern sampler that uses digitally recorded samples rather than tape samples.
The Mellotron m4000d is the top key bed, and the memo trim box on top is being used with the lower board
I own 4 digital mellotrons: 2 Resch M4000Ds (the "big" one and a Micro) and 2 Memotrons (both the keyboard and desktop versions...the latter is depicted in this video). They do not sound the same (the Memotron is indeed more "gritty")...as with everything, it's a matter of personal preference. I tend to play the M4000D more than the Memotron.
What I can say is this: the "big" version of the Resch Mellotron M4000D has the best keyboard, by far, of almost anything I've ever put my fingers to. The keys are wooden, with superb pressure sensitivity and polyphonic aftertouch. The Memotron has standard plastic keys, and in addition, the sounds are "organized" like an old tape-based M400. You have to load "frames" (each frame contains 3 sounds) into the Memotron, just like you loaded tape frames into the M400. Thus, if I want French Accordion, and the frame I have loaded is one of the "standards" (3 Violins, Brass, and Chorus) I have to unload that frame and then find and load a frame that has the French Accordion...and hopefully the other 2 sounds are also what I want. I consider that to be a bit of a PITA; the "frames" in an M400 are exactly what limited that device in performance, making it a sorta sad and castrated version of the amazing Mk.II (double-manual, with dozens of available sounds on various "stations" that can be selected with a simple push of a button). All 100 sounds (or 200, if you purchase cards) of the Resch Mellotron are immediately available; you just have to dial them in. Or you can designate which sounds are your favorites (no limits) and have them more quickly available.
FWIW, I truly love ALL these sounds...that's why I copped for all 4 models.
I believe the Mellotron sounds were sampled from the original tapes while the Memotron was sampled from recorded copies of Mellotron sounds. The advantage of the Memotron is that it is much cheaper to expand the sound range. Mellotron sound cards cost $500 while Memotron sound sets cost €75 plus there is a greater range,
That's not quite true, they were both sampled from the original libraries. The Memotron is the heir of Streetly's mellotrons, the "original" ones, while the current Mellotron are just from a company who bought the brand, with no affiliation whatsoever with the people that worked on the original Mellotron.
@@andy5178 Hi! I believe the difference is the M4000D samples came directly from the master tapes, while the Memotron samples were recorded from several M400's playing the frames. So you either get raw master tape sound (M4000D) or the sound of the framed tapes played through an M400. I personally prefer the Memotron as this is more characteristic of what the tapes sound like coming out of an actual M400.
We prefer Memotron also …and use them often ( like today )
@@stevengasiecki8826 You hitt the nail on the head. The masters sound "too good to be true" as "true" Mellotron sound profile is tape dubs further colored by physical transport of the tape mechanism. No need to "dial in" artificial wow and flutter or tape age like the M4000D.
Can you make a video on a general overview of how many synth modules and synth gear and just synth stuff in general that you have? (And maybe a separate vid on the guitars too.. ;)
I'm constantly acquiring new things and selling others. A lot of gear you've seen in videos I no longer have. I don't have the space or funds to maintain elaborate setups and am on a quest for simplifying the rig as much as possible. The goal is to have no modules and only three keyboards: Piano, Organ, Synth.
@@troublesomecorsair sounds interesting. I always thought it was all about having all the modules. Not quite what I expected 😅
troublesomecorsair so what would you recommend between the Mellotron 4000D vs the Memotron?
@@shawnsaul7759 Mellotron Aficionados claim that the Memotron, while also being cheaper, is the better mellotron. The problem they have with the M4000D is that their sounds are samples of the so-called master tapes instead of samples of a mellotron. There's a surprising distinction and difference between the two. The M4000D comes in full size, half size, rack, and micro versions. I've not known anyone to use a mellotron exclusively. It is always incorporated into a much larger setup, meaning that form factor is an important thing to consider. I'm always keeping an eye out on Reverb.com; it is increasingly difficult to get a hold of M4000D Mellotrons, especially the rack version. Manikin Memotron, on the other hand, is only keyboard or the module and I see them for sale all the time.
To get right down to it, a mellotron these days is a luxury buy. You don't need it, but you love it so you must have it. However, if push comes to shove and you have to liquidate part of your studio, the mellotron is going to be the first to go. There are VSTs, ipad apps, samples within other keyboards from Nord and Korg, etc.
Because a mellotron is a building block, the outputs play a part in how it integrates with your studio. The M4000D is mono with XLR outputs, but it can be split, channels A and B, into two mono outputs simultaneously. You might run into some odd panning situations with it. The Memotron has two simple 1/4" outputs, Right and Left, which ends up suiting me better, plus it has built-in effects. The M4000D has no internal effects because the makers believe you already own better effects than what they could provide. Does that mean the M4000D is the sound-mangler's dream? Yes but not anymore than the Memotron is. We love the mellotron because of those old 70s records. We hear a mellotron, not master tapes. I'm not a purist and maybe you aren't either, so can you go wrong? There are a lot of cool lo-fi guitar pedals out there that mangle the same of the M4000D beautifully. If you bought an M4000D and aren't happy with it, you can mangle the sound until you get it right, right? Plus you'll have all the benefits of a nice controller via Midi Out. The M4000D is vastly more expensive but not vastly superior, and some would argue inferior.
What about the workflow? Maybe you like the color screen of the M4000D and feel intimidated by the dotted display of the Memotron. They're both easy and load very quickly. The Memotron is a simple push-button that is also a scroll wheel, and there's an Escape/Back button, too. Both are a breeze to navigate until you add expansion packs and the list of sounds to scroll through takes forever. How does the Memotron expansions work? I think you buy a data CD, copy the files on to an SD card and insert it in the back. That's okay with me but less and less computers have disc drives these days. I wonder if they'll start including cheapy SD cards with the CDs.
Something I didn't know until I bought the Memotron module is that it also has samples from other instruments like the Solina string machine, a few Arp Pro Soloist presets, Moog brass and bass, Elka organs, and a small variety of other oddball sounds. Sure, both machine will give you nice Strings, Violins, Choir, and Flutes, but perhaps there are other sounds you're interested in that only one provides and not the other. As for me, I am too busy wrestling with the Sequential Prophet XL now.
So in conclusion, sound-wise, I have no idea. Controller-wise, the M4000D full size has polyphonic aftertouch and a great pitch bend but no Mod Wheel. It can go up and down a few octaves but you'll have to dive into the Midi menu settings for that. The Memotron does have a Mod Wheel but the Midi note octave/transpose is a little more menu-dive-y. Oh, and I do like the Memotron's LP filter better. Also, if you buy a used M4000D and something goes wrong, do you have to send it back to Europe for repairs? Is the Memotron any easier in that department? I don't know. Both have been reliable for me.
Troublesomecorsair::: does the Memotron allow full use of the keyboard? Or only 35 keys?? You are my only hope! Great vids btw
Thanks! If I remember correctly, the Memotron and the Mellotron are pretty much identical in terms of key and note range. If you were to plug an 88-key midi controller into both of them, only the middle three octaves would work. Half speed playback of the samples does not effect the octave of the keys, only the pitch of the sound.
So in short, yes, it's just the 37 keys. However! There are a few fancy keyboard settings that I never messed around with. I think you can assign its 37 sounds to various keys of your controller. For instance, you could have Part A Strings start in F0, Part B Flutes start on F4, and Part C Horns start on F7, even overlapping. This way you can make use of the entire range of an external keyboard. Moreover! The actually pitch of the memotron's samples, despite being assigned to different keys, will always be within that original 37 range.
Best be reading the user manual off the manikin website to be sure.
@@troublesomecorsair Both digital mellotrons have 35 (not 37) keys, and are limited to that, even on a 49 or 61-key MIDI board.
@@steveeichel803 Would you care to revise your statement?
Why do the church organs have different attack? Which one is the original?
Lower keyboard is always Memotron which is Church Organ while the M4000D was set to Pipe Organ, if I'm not mistaken.
I think the Mellotron sounds warmer and more authentic in this video. Especially the note attacks. I'm amazed by all the comments in the memotrons corner below as in this video, the memotron is definitely the more clinical almost 'tinny' sound. I had to re-watch just incase I got my machines wrong, but the keyboard at the bottom is definitely triggering the memotron. Mellotron M4000D wins out in this video at least. Having said that, the Streetly Tapes are another bag entirely!
Since writing this I have bought myself a Memotron and can safely say, it’s EXCELLENT. I haven’t played any of the digi Mellotron range though.
H A L F N E L S O N TRAX The Mellotron sounds muddier to me .. but I’m also pushing 60 now and my high end hearing ain’t what it use to be, and having chronic tinnitus from decades listening to Wakeman play his at high volume doesn’t help either. So my vote goes to the Memotron. So you got yours 3 months ago now .. you still digging it? Were you using any Mellotron plugins before that?
Yes...maybe - but if Manikin wouldn' t have created the memotron first, Mellotron perhaps would've had never the idea for their today "Mellotron"! - Manikin did all the pioneer work creating a "close-to-the-original-M400-clone" at a much fairer price - and now Mellotron gets all the applause! - Musicians can be real hippocrites....
@@lincolnsixecho51 Not sure if you read, but I bought the Manikin over the "Mellotron" and love it, haha. I think the setup must be odd with this video, as it was the worst example of the Memotron I could find. I still stick by my original comment for this video, but definitely think the Memotron is the superior instrument overall (and the company is also really friendly!) - Cheers!
@@chrisstrobel3439 Cheers, Chris. I am very much still digging it, over a year on now. I've used it on loads of recordings and in a couple of live performances just before the pandemic hit. It will be a mainstay for many years am sure!
EL MEMOTRON SUPERA AL M4000