How the hell was this posted five years ago and I'm just now finding out about it? This should have been the pilot episode for its own season on NBC! It should have been shouted from the rooftops in every corner of the globe! Girlfriends/boyfriends should be sending cards saying thankyou for the return of their loved ones from the garage! The Presidential Medal of Freedom should be considered! Park Tool is a goddamned national treasure, some of your stuff may be a little pricey but I'm all in because of stuff like this! Keep it up!
This is one of the most satisfying wheel related videos I have seen. Really great info and explanations for all facets of wheel checking, and it seems as if I'll be able to fix/build wheels with relative ease once I've had a few practice runs. Calvin rules.
I love the way you teach Calvin and your voice as well ! Thanks a lot ! It took me ages to understand wheel Tension and with this video, i feel like less stupid than before
I got a tension meter years ago and didn't expect to use it except on the initial building, but it is so useful to go around a wheel and check before snapping spokes, before a big tour or after 4k miles or a few 100 after building a new set, the tools are very useful to know what's happening with a wheel.
Thanks to the team Park tool. Please make a video on wheel building for a completely new 27.5/700c wheel, how can I choose the right hub for my wheel rim? How can I choose spoke length? This kind of video will be very helpful for us. Please. Thanks again.
Just purchased a TM-1, very glad I found this youtube video. The online Park Tools URL app is an excellent free resource, customers can hold bike shops to accountability. This is a simple java script, there's alot of s/w that can d/l this script, then you can convert it into android through an app porting utility. If you're working on the same rim all the time, perform the spec once, print it out and just use excel with a simple multiplication formula. I'll be fabricating my own truing stand with dial gauges instead of eyeballing the gap with typical store bought units. If Park's TS2.2 was at least 35% cheaper I'd buy it, however my higher precision DYI stand will be under $150 all in (3 dial gauges, angle steel, hardware, 2 hrs labor).
This is brilliant, thank you so much! Splendid video to understand the use of both the tool and the WTA. So very detailed, yet easy to understand for the apt amateur to maintain wheels. The WTA not only simplifies the work with the TM-1, the analysis, documentational and archive functions are ingenious! Great tools, great service!
I'm a newcomer to this aspect of bike maintenance. Thank you for creating products and the presentation of know-how to use them. With your good intentions, bicycling and the ownership/maintenance thereof are so much better appreciated.
Oh, let me add the elephant in the room - the wheel truing stand - now, also understood for what it brings to the process without really mentioning it. I see its importance: as a novice. I could have got caught up not recognizing an unsavable rim without being given a hint of the in-depth relationship between tension and causes of off-true.
I bought this tool only because this nice tutorial video. A nice tutorial make to us easier to understand how to use a tool and avoid a lot of headache! Thanks!
New Age Kenn........... Are they? Hazard how wheels I have, built before the advent of New Age tensionometers et al. are STILL fully operational, never a broken spoke, most with over 50,000 miles.
@@death2pc I think experience varies a lot. Clearly if your are a really good builder ur going to build a lot of muscle memory with the tension of spokes.
How do people dislike this? Great idea. Great for wheelbuilders. Let's be honest, the tool ain't cheap so this whole thing goes a long way to adding value to the process. Thanks.
wow. Calvin, this is an excellent video. i am motivated to learn how to build wheels now. all i need is money for the tools ! for now, it's a spoke wrench, a wish, and a prayer every time i true a wheel. i do a pay what you can neighbourhood bike mechanic thing. i even wash every bike before i return it to the customer and do full tuneups, even if they just need a new tube. i get parts at cost from my local shop and pass the savings along ! I love bikes and my neighbourhood!
Amazing tool, thank you so much ParkTool. I've use it for first time on by race bikes rear wheel. The spokes were creaking and loosed its tension. Its fanastic what the tool did to the wheel. Now with your tool i made the wheel like its just came out from the factory. Before i used only spoke wrench, testing the spokes with the fingers. As a result spokes were never perfect. But now they are fine tuned. Thank you!
Great video. I'm doing this now. I had an absolute perfectly true and dished wheel but had a few outliers on tension. When I adjusted tension it changed the true a lot. Starting to get a better understanding of how they all play in to each other.
Look at 15:15 . If the rim/hoop is bent, it is unlikely that you will achieve both a true wheel and tight tension tolerances. To prevent this, the spokes must have ideal tension from the start... but this is seldom the case with generic branded wheels. Upon realizing this, I am in the process of teaching myself how to build wheels. It might be worth it considering how I ride 😅
Great insight thanks. However I would like an example where spokes crosses each other, we always get these demos with almost no overlap between spokes. In my experience measuring spoke tension gets way more complicated when spokes overlaps/touches each other
You are professional bike maintainer :) spoke tension metering and computer aided problem solving. I am a poor man, I just grip spokes to feel with hand. You have a point in truing a bent rim that it is not lasting true long. Maybe a poor man has to true it many times to save a wheel, i hope.
I wish I live next to your workshop ❤. How worry-free the sport of cycling can be when we know that our bikes are gonna be looked after by mechanics like you.
Great Video! I am still slightly confused as to the tension on one side of the rim vs the other. why would the load not be evenly distributed between left and right side? Thanks for these videos !!!
Good question. On most rear wheels and many disc bike front wheels the bracing angles are different as the hub flanges need to be offset to accomodate the gear cluster or the disc brake. The bigger the bracing angle the more it can pull the rim effectivly. When one side has more bracing angle, the smaller bracing angle needs to have a higher tension to keep up. So the side with less bracing angle has more tension than the one with a larger bracing angle.
If you were listening carefully just now, you would have heard me shouting "BLUETOOTH" from 7:30 onwards. The challenge would be to get the gadget to know which spoke it was on.
a bit simplistic. As soon as you adjust a spoke's tension it affects the tensions of multiple spokes; those spokes adjacent to it and also opposite it. Also, I've found with that tool, that you have to jiggle it to get an accurate reading. Jiggle it a bit till the reading is stable. Sometimes the reading doesn't change much, sometimes it changes a fair bit. This should be obvious if you think about it. Once you think you've finished tensioning the wheel, measure all the spokes again - you'll get a surprise 😄. The bad news; there's more work involved. The good news; the amount of adjusting needed does diminish. This is why I do my own work.
After mounting a tire onto the wheel the tension decreases. So the spoke tension should be measured with a mounted tire to achieve the specified tension, am I right? Thanks for the great video!
No, You should set the tension before the tire is mounted as if you set the tension when the tire is mounted and you get a flat then the spoke tension will exceed the max tension of the rims or hubs. This is something that ive talked to a number of wheel manufacturers about and this is they all agree that spoke tension should be measured and set while the tire is off the wheel. Good question!
@@parktool I have tested my new set of carbon 50mm road bike wheels and when riding out of the saddle the rear rim is rubbing against the rim brake. I assumed that the spoke tension is generally too low and the reason for the spongy wheel. It's a tubless setup so I would like to avoid to dismantle it again to check the spoke tension. From some tension charts from DTSwiss one can see that the tension decreases by ca. 15 % after a tire was mounted. Is it a good rule of thumb to measure the tension with a tire mounted and multiply it by 1.15 to get a value which roughly equals the tension without a tire? I hope yes but I guess it's not.
I would deflate the tire and then check your tensions. Are your new rims much wider? Often as your brakes have to open further, the adjustment can become more difficult and the leverage ration seems to change and not allow as much room between the pads and the rim. Does this sound like what you are dealing with?
@@parktool Yes, the rim is wider and I realized it when mounting the wheel, therefore I readjusted the distance of the breaking pads to the rim before my first ride. After this ride one could see that the wheel is not as true as it was before. Some of the spokes on the non drive side sound lower than the others. I'm waiting for my ordered TM-1 to check the wheels in depth. Thank you for your help!
I have a question, App aside. This does not apply to the app but tension. someone gave me a rear wheel to fix and some spokes are steel, some are aluminum. is that an issue for truing? The app is a godsend, by the way. can't wait to do my first build with it !
That will not be an issue for truing but (it may be for reading tension) it is nearly impossible to have a wheel with a mix of spokes like that. Wheels with aluminum spokes have proprietary hubs and often proprietary rims that will not accept steel spokes. There may not seem like there is any pull from the magnet when checking but if the spoke is a J-bend you are more than likely dealing with steel/ stainless steal spokes. My guess is that you are dealing with all steel spokes.
I'm a bit confused with the part that comes out after you put in spoke size, material etc and it gives you a recommendation based on this. What am I looking at from this table to get an idea of what tension to go to per spoke? I have sapin race spokes on disc wheels. Thanks
Your max tension is typically set by your rim manufacturer. The app will not tell you how tight to get your wheel as different systems, rims, hubs and spokes are different. Look to your rim manufacturer for max tension and go 10 KGF below that. That is a fairly typical tension goal. Most rims are in the 100-130 KGF max range. There are some that are higher and some that are lower so it is good to check.
That's a really good app...but if you but the spoke tension tool , dose it come with a digram of tensions and or a starting point...iam wondering if you can tune the spoke to tone using a guitar tuner mic and amp...it may sound crazy but ...i believe it can work..???
One additional "marking" step would be to have the wheel in the stand, rotate the wheel, and mark the spoke measurement location on both sides for consistency.
Thanks for this helpful video. I just got the following issue. On my Reynolds AR58/62 I obviously got Titanium Spokes because they are not magnetic and have a diameter of 1.8mm in the middle of the spoke. At the end, close to the nipple it has 2.1. In the WTA App I can only choose a diameter of 2 for titanium spokes. Is it still true for a 1.8mm spoke like in my case? Or what would you guys recommend me? Thanks a lot for your help.
Titanium spokes are not common, especially on prebuilt wheels. Looks like that set comes with Sapim Sprint spokes. Those are a cold forged stainless steel (steel in the TM-1 chart)and will have a very very very slight amount of magnetism.
Looks as if Calvin answered your question last night. Check tension with the tire off. Manufacturers suggest this as they would be higher than manufacturer spec when you got a flat or were switching tires. Cheers!
hi there @park tool. any way you explain in depth the result of the spoke stats? also, the lower the variance, the tighter the spoke are? does that mean it lasts longer in terms of staying true in terms of servicing the wheel? thank you
If the information in a DT Swiss UA-cam "Mastering the wheel (video lesson)" Dec 15, 2015 b0bruto (ua-cam.com/video/_MLyw7LiCLc/v-deo.html) on wheel building is anywhere near correct: YES. The impression I gained the closer the tensioning is consistent around the rim, the better. And best is when it is evenly applied and as close to design specification (kg-f)for the hub/rim/spoke components. If you were working for DT, and building their idea of the highest caliber wheel, they demonstrate one additional step: soldering wire wrapping reinforcement at the most distant spoke crossings from the hub. (Someday I hope to regularly achieve such considered results.)
Can one say that if all spokes on one side have the same tension and the rim is not damaged, that the wheel will then be true? Do I still have to check the wheel for being untrue after all spokes have been balanced?
No, the wheel is not guaranteed to be true. The rim can be slightly bent or the opposing spokes could be holding the wheel out of true. Tensioning and trueing are very much related and effect one another but you cannot just do one without checking the other.
I'd like to second this request. I'm sure many users would happily pay a small fee for a phone or desktop app with the option to save files locally. If that's still not in your plan, could you perhaps add an option on the web version to save files locally?
Excellent explanation, thankyou guys from Park Tool, that helped me understanding the theory of truing rims, more than the practical stuff I do on mine, I'd like to have this guy truing my wheels! Nice mustache hahaha
What pen do you use to write on black rim? I have a silver Sharpie but I think it is paint rathet than ink so I don't want to use it and ruin my wheel. Please tell what pen you use and I will go buy the same one. Thank you.
Manufacturers publish a max tension for their rims. Even some hub manufacturers have max tensions listed. The max tension is going to apply to the drive side spokes of the rear wheel. When building the rear wheel you will bring the tension up on the drive side up to the max or what you would like, and the non-drive sides tension will be figured out for you as there is no way to increase the tension on the non drive side without either increasing Drive side (which would go above max tension) or having an out of dish wheel. Hub and rim manufacturers try to make up for this with offset rims, different flange diameters, asymmetrical rear triangles and lacing patterns. This is probably confusing and I apologize. Let me know if I can help you understand further.
Thank you. I understand that on the rear wheel I achieve the target tension on the drive side and let the tension on the non-drive side be what it turns out to be. Thank you for another great video! Using the TM-1 tension meter with the Park Tool Wheel Tension App has helped me do a great job building my first set of wheels. And what I have learned using the tension meter and the app will help me to do a better job of truing wheels even if I don't have the tension meter or app available.
At this time, the TM-1 needs about 100mm of free spoke without crosses to fit. For the small wheel with cross lacing, it does not fit. We have no other option at this time.
@@parktool OK. Thank you for replying. I'll just keep on doing it by ear then, to get an even tension. It would be nice to know if I'm getting the correct (within manufacturers specification) tension though.
Hey Calvin. I ride a unicycle with a 24" wheel for about 6 years, and just lately my spokes have been breaking. . At every month or so, I had one break, then two, then another. Probably a half dozen within a year. I don't do any hard impact tricks, but lots of static balancing/idling stuff. I saw one of your video and I pretty much know what you will conclude. I need a whole new set of spokes. I'm considering lacing myself, because I think it will be easier since equal spoke tension is more important than perfect trueing(total runout) for slow unicycling.
With that many broken spokes its likely time for a new rim and a new set of spokes. The old rim and old spokes have been fatigued. An opportunity to learn a new skill and possibly improve your Uni's wheel!
HI ! Will you please give us an advice as to what spoke tension to consider between the tension when the tire is removed from the wheel and tension when tire is on the wheel and inflated? I mean I measured tension of an ultegra wheel without tire and got 19 on the scale of parktool tension meter , but when I measured without the tire inflated, it returned 16 on the scale. Which of two should we consider when checking against manufacturer tension recommendation? Thank you!
13:26 The problem is that if you correct tension of a “bad” spoke, you have to recheck all other spokes since their tension is changed too. All the recordings in a form will be different.
amgluk in my experience, for practical uses, it’s okay to just input the corrections. Measuring every spoke again will not show significant difference since the tool has a limited accuracy of “half a number” as Calvin said in the video.
Every time i balance spokes in one area, the entire tension of the wheel changes. My spokes are too short, and im not sure if that contributing to that. Ive got the tension pretty much maxed out because of the short spokes. Should i be worried? Also the app crashed 😡 right after entering everything
just a question, if i have the tm-1, do i really need a true stand or to dish the wheel? i think these errors are easy to see with a tension meter. Is just an opinion, or of a question :)) do am i right? or need all the tools to make the things right>?
I know this is a bit old of a question, but the short answer is "yes" you do need the different tools because they measure different dimensions of the wheel. The truing stand provides a gauge to show whether the rim is "straight" without wobble side to side (lateral trueness) and without flat spots in the circle (radial trueness). The dish tool shows whether the rim is centered between the hub faces, so that it will be centered in the bike. You can have "even" tension on the spokes, but the wheel is too far to one side. Or you can have even spoke tension, but the rim is not straight. You can true and dish the wheel so it runs straight and centered, but have uneven spoke tension. If this is the case, the wheel will quickly/easily lose that straight shape you gave it.
Why is it that you have different tension ranges for the left and right side? (shown in the app as the blue line being wider than the yellow line). Shouldn't both sides of the wheel, left and right, have the same tension?
Some wheels are symmetric, many wheels are not. A-symmetrical wheels have higher tension on the most steep side in order to get the rim in the middle. Imagine you pull the rim to one side, would you pull downward ore sidewards? Well, what's going on in a wheel is not that extreme, but somewhere in that direction.
Absolute genius of a teacher for communicating the complex in such a manageable way.
How the hell was this posted five years ago and I'm just now finding out about it? This should have been the pilot episode for its own season on NBC! It should have been shouted from the rooftops in every corner of the globe! Girlfriends/boyfriends should be sending cards saying thankyou for the return of their loved ones from the garage! The Presidential Medal of Freedom should be considered!
Park Tool is a goddamned national treasure, some of your stuff may be a little pricey but I'm all in because of stuff like this! Keep it up!
I feel like every time I turn to youtube for bike repair insight I end up on a Park video of Calvin. Well done as always.
This is one of the most satisfying wheel related videos I have seen. Really great info and explanations for all facets of wheel checking, and it seems as if I'll be able to fix/build wheels with relative ease once I've had a few practice runs. Calvin rules.
EXEPTIONAL Video, Great and fluent speaker, a very instructive and professional explanationTHANKS
Dan Arditi Couldn't agree more. This video IS exceptional! Thumbs up.
Completely agree park and Al from mtbr have saved my bacon many times!!
I love the way you teach Calvin and your voice as well ! Thanks a lot ! It took me ages to understand wheel Tension and with this video, i feel like less stupid than before
I got a tension meter years ago and didn't expect to use it except on the initial building, but it is so useful to go around a wheel and check before snapping spokes, before a big tour or after 4k miles or a few 100 after building a new set, the tools are very useful to know what's happening with a wheel.
Park Tool is the best for making these helpful videos, and also the helpful web "app" to achieve proper spoke tension.
Because of this video, I bought this tool. Park tools make very good tools. Now I understand more about wheels.
Thanks to the team Park tool.
Please make a video on wheel building for a completely new 27.5/700c wheel, how can I choose the right hub for my wheel rim?
How can I choose spoke length?
This kind of video will be very helpful for us. Please.
Thanks again.
Park Tool is serious about bike maintenance.. love it!
Just purchased a TM-1, very glad I found this youtube video. The online Park Tools URL app is an excellent free resource, customers can hold bike shops to accountability. This is a simple java script, there's alot of s/w that can d/l this script, then you can convert it into android through an app porting utility. If you're working on the same rim all the time, perform the spec once, print it out and just use excel with a simple multiplication formula. I'll be fabricating my own truing stand with dial gauges instead of eyeballing the gap with typical store bought units. If Park's TS2.2 was at least 35% cheaper I'd buy it, however my higher precision DYI stand will be under $150 all in (3 dial gauges, angle steel, hardware, 2 hrs labor).
Congratulations, finally a clear and understandable video, where you can see and hear in an excellent way.
This is brilliant, thank you so much!
Splendid video to understand the use of both the tool and the WTA.
So very detailed, yet easy to understand for the apt amateur to maintain wheels.
The WTA not only simplifies the work with the TM-1, the analysis, documentational and archive functions are ingenious!
Great tools, great service!
I'm a newcomer to this aspect of bike maintenance. Thank you for creating products and the presentation of know-how to use them. With your good intentions, bicycling and the ownership/maintenance thereof are so much better appreciated.
Oh, let me add the elephant in the room - the wheel truing stand - now, also understood for what it brings to the process without really mentioning it. I see its importance: as a novice. I could have got caught up not recognizing an unsavable rim without being given a hint of the in-depth relationship between tension and causes of off-true.
I bought this tool only because this nice tutorial video. A nice tutorial make to us easier to understand how to use a tool and avoid a lot of headache! Thanks!
The way this guy explains thing is so helpful. Great job man
Extremely helpful! Amazing how our local shops are oblivious to proper when truing and tensioning skills. Thanks!
New Age Kenn........... Are they? Hazard how wheels I have, built before the advent of New Age tensionometers et al. are STILL fully operational, never a broken spoke, most with over 50,000 miles.
@@death2pc I think experience varies a lot. Clearly if your are a really good builder ur going to build a lot of muscle memory with the tension of spokes.
this is one of the most informative videos on fixing wheel spoke issues ive ever watched! i should watch more park tool videos..
I saw bike-polo team use park tool bike repair stand. The gripping part is essential to keep good grip.
Extremely high quality information and delivery. Thanks!
How do people dislike this? Great idea. Great for wheelbuilders.
Let's be honest, the tool ain't cheap so this whole thing goes a long way to adding value to the process. Thanks.
Current price is $104. A bit steep for us weekend warriors.
wow. Calvin, this is an excellent video. i am motivated to learn how to build wheels now. all i need is money for the tools ! for now, it's a spoke wrench, a wish, and a prayer every time i true a wheel. i do a pay what you can neighbourhood bike mechanic thing. i even wash every bike before i return it to the customer and do full tuneups, even if they just need a new tube. i get parts at cost from my local shop and pass the savings along ! I love bikes and my neighbourhood!
Top notch instruction by Park and Calvin
Amazing tool, thank you so much ParkTool. I've use it for first time on by race bikes rear wheel. The spokes were creaking and loosed its tension. Its fanastic what the tool did to the wheel. Now with your tool i made the wheel like its just came out from the factory. Before i used only spoke wrench, testing the spokes with the fingers. As a result spokes were never perfect. But now they are fine tuned. Thank you!
Great video. I'm doing this now. I had an absolute perfectly true and dished wheel but had a few outliers on tension. When I adjusted tension it changed the true a lot. Starting to get a better understanding of how they all play in to each other.
Look at 15:15 . If the rim/hoop is bent, it is unlikely that you will achieve both a true wheel and tight tension tolerances. To prevent this, the spokes must have ideal tension from the start... but this is seldom the case with generic branded wheels. Upon realizing this, I am in the process of teaching myself how to build wheels. It might be worth it considering how I ride 😅
Can you Loosen and Tighten spokes with a deflated tire on or does the tire have to be removed to do this.???
You don't need to remove the tire.
Great insight thanks. However I would like an example where spokes crosses each other, we always get these demos with almost no overlap between spokes. In my experience measuring spoke tension gets way more complicated when spokes overlaps/touches each other
You are professional bike maintainer :) spoke tension metering and computer aided problem solving. I am a poor man, I just grip spokes to feel with hand. You have a point in truing a bent rim that it is not lasting true long. Maybe a poor man has to true it many times to save a wheel, i hope.
I bought the TM-1 tensioner because it's a park tool and didn't even know how to use it. But now i do. Thanks for this video and for the great app!
I wish I live next to your workshop ❤. How worry-free the sport of cycling can be when we know that our bikes are gonna be looked after by mechanics like you.
This is the best wheel tension video EVER!!!
AND HERE I SPENT MY LIFE JUST TIGHTENING THEM BY HAND WITH NO PROBLEMS
This is.. amazing. Thank you all at Park so very much.
I've learned SO much on this channel! Thank you for the education!!
Trust the mustache, my friends. Trust the mustache.
Great Video! I am still slightly confused as to the tension on one side of the rim vs the other. why would the load not be evenly distributed between left and right side? Thanks for these videos !!!
Good question. On most rear wheels and many disc bike front wheels the bracing angles are different as the hub flanges need to be offset to accomodate the gear cluster or the disc brake. The bigger the bracing angle the more it can pull the rim effectivly. When one side has more bracing angle, the smaller bracing angle needs to have a higher tension to keep up. So the side with less bracing angle has more tension than the one with a larger bracing angle.
Fascinating Tutorial. This sort of app really brings cycle mechanics to the 21st century.
I think a Bluetooth connected tensiometer would bring it into the 21st century. Typing is so 20th century.
If you were listening carefully just now, you would have heard me shouting "BLUETOOTH" from 7:30 onwards. The challenge would be to get the gadget to know which spoke it was on.
After you guys set your brain buckets down for the day, I'd like buy you all a round of beers. Great product line. Keep 'em coming!
Calvin is a genius, hats off
Awesome so well explained!
Thanks Calvin, youre a bicycle scientist.
Your feel ,eye & hearing is better than any app for truing wheels.
The best teacher ever!
My head hurts... Will there be a test on this?
Excellent video, nonetheless. Thanks.
great a video that i can understand and work from and its in English you can't get better than that ❤
your mustache has its own parallel universe. love it
a bit simplistic. As soon as you adjust a spoke's tension it affects the tensions of multiple spokes; those spokes adjacent to it and also opposite it. Also, I've found with that tool, that you have to jiggle it to get an accurate reading. Jiggle it a bit till the reading is stable. Sometimes the reading doesn't change much, sometimes it changes a fair bit. This should be obvious if you think about it. Once you think you've finished tensioning the wheel, measure all the spokes again - you'll get a surprise 😄. The bad news; there's more work involved. The good news; the amount of adjusting needed does diminish. This is why I do my own work.
this is so good thank you park tool, please make an IOS app for this so we don't need to bring a laptop or use a web based tool
This is absolutely amazing and also insane at the same time!
a five star video, imo.
Dadgum, that was an amazing video. High quality content, thank you.
great explanation!
You are a professional 🙂
Very informative. UA-cam can be an awesome tool if you know what to look for.
Thanks to this usefull and gratefull vido, ..Park Tool you are grateful , you are a grate teachers
I want to ask that even in rim brake the tension would be the same right and left side or the right should have more tension tnx more power to you
Park Tool it's exceptional as always
Thank you so much for this video, app, tool and nice presentation.Thank you Calvin.
After mounting a tire onto the wheel the tension decreases. So the spoke tension should be measured with a mounted tire to achieve the specified tension, am I right?
Thanks for the great video!
No, You should set the tension before the tire is mounted as if you set the tension when the tire is mounted and you get a flat then the spoke tension will exceed the max tension of the rims or hubs. This is something that ive talked to a number of wheel manufacturers about and this is they all agree that spoke tension should be measured and set while the tire is off the wheel. Good question!
@@parktool I have tested my new set of carbon 50mm road bike wheels and when riding out of the saddle the rear rim is rubbing against the rim brake. I assumed that the spoke tension is generally too low and the reason for the spongy wheel. It's a tubless setup so I would like to avoid to dismantle it again to check the spoke tension. From some tension charts from DTSwiss one can see that the tension decreases by ca. 15 % after a tire was mounted. Is it a good rule of thumb to measure the tension with a tire mounted and multiply it by 1.15 to get a value which roughly equals the tension without a tire? I hope yes but I guess it's not.
Almost deflating the tire should also get me close to a wheel without a tire, right?
I would deflate the tire and then check your tensions. Are your new rims much wider? Often as your brakes have to open further, the adjustment can become more difficult and the leverage ration seems to change and not allow as much room between the pads and the rim. Does this sound like what you are dealing with?
@@parktool Yes, the rim is wider and I realized it when mounting the wheel, therefore I readjusted the distance of the breaking pads to the rim before my first ride. After this ride one could see that the wheel is not as true as it was before. Some of the spokes on the non drive side sound lower than the others. I'm waiting for my ordered TM-1 to check the wheels in depth. Thank you for your help!
I have a question, App aside. This does not apply to the app but tension.
someone gave me a rear wheel to fix and some spokes are steel, some are aluminum. is that an issue for truing?
The app is a godsend, by the way. can't wait to do my first build with it !
That will not be an issue for truing but (it may be for reading tension) it is nearly impossible to have a wheel with a mix of spokes like that. Wheels with aluminum spokes have proprietary hubs and often proprietary rims that will not accept steel spokes. There may not seem like there is any pull from the magnet when checking but if the spoke is a J-bend you are more than likely dealing with steel/ stainless steal spokes. My guess is that you are dealing with all steel spokes.
Thank You so much for the advice, Calvin ! You guys are the best of the best !
I'm a bit confused with the part that comes out after you put in spoke size, material etc and it gives you a recommendation based on this. What am I looking at from this table to get an idea of what tension to go to per spoke? I have sapin race spokes on disc wheels. Thanks
Your max tension is typically set by your rim manufacturer. The app will not tell you how tight to get your wheel as different systems, rims, hubs and spokes are different. Look to your rim manufacturer for max tension and go 10 KGF below that. That is a fairly typical tension goal. Most rims are in the 100-130 KGF max range. There are some that are higher and some that are lower so it is good to check.
Thanks a lot for speaking at moderate speed :)
That's a really good app...but if you but the spoke tension tool , dose it come with a digram of tensions and or a starting point...iam wondering if you can tune the spoke to tone using a guitar tuner mic and amp...it may sound crazy but ...i believe it can work..???
There is a paper chart included with the tool. There are some who tension with tone. We have not found it to be consistent.
Keep up the great instructional videos! It is appreciated! Best Regards!
Does the TM-1 need calibrating after a period of use in a workshop where lots of wheels are being built?
One additional "marking" step would be to have the wheel in the stand, rotate the wheel, and mark the spoke measurement location on both sides for consistency.
Outstanding video. Very good tool.
Sehr gut und hilfreich, regards from germany
What about wheels that have rounded spokes one one side and bladed on the other for example the Mavic Aksium?
Thanks for this helpful video. I just got the following issue. On my Reynolds AR58/62 I obviously got Titanium Spokes because they are not magnetic and have a diameter of 1.8mm in the middle of the spoke. At the end, close to the nipple it has 2.1. In the WTA App I can only choose a diameter of 2 for titanium spokes. Is it still true for a 1.8mm spoke like in my case? Or what would you guys recommend me? Thanks a lot for your help.
Titanium spokes are not common, especially on prebuilt wheels. Looks like that set comes with Sapim Sprint spokes. Those are a cold forged stainless steel (steel in the TM-1 chart)and will have a very very very slight amount of magnetism.
When measuring spoke tension, should you have a tire installed and inflated to the proper pressure or just the wheel without the tire?
Looks as if Calvin answered your question last night. Check tension with the tire off. Manufacturers suggest this as they would be higher than manufacturer spec when you got a flat or were switching tires. Cheers!
he did, thank you!
hi there @park tool. any way you explain in depth the result of the spoke stats? also, the lower the variance, the tighter the spoke are? does that mean it lasts longer in terms of staying true in terms of servicing the wheel? thank you
If the information in a DT Swiss UA-cam
"Mastering the wheel (video lesson)"
Dec 15, 2015
b0bruto
(ua-cam.com/video/_MLyw7LiCLc/v-deo.html)
on wheel building is anywhere near correct: YES. The impression I gained the closer the tensioning is consistent around the rim, the better. And best is when it is evenly applied and as close to design specification (kg-f)for the hub/rim/spoke components. If you were working for DT, and building their idea of the highest caliber wheel, they demonstrate one additional step: soldering wire wrapping reinforcement at the most distant spoke crossings from the hub. (Someday I hope to regularly achieve such considered results.)
Thank you so much, very appreciated video. As always Park Tool is the best.
You guys make a very good Video.
Thanks
Very helpful video and app! Thanks for the explanations.
Can one say that if all spokes on one side have the same tension and the rim is not damaged, that the wheel will then be true? Do I still have to check the wheel for being untrue after all spokes have been balanced?
No, the wheel is not guaranteed to be true. The rim can be slightly bent or the opposing spokes could be holding the wheel out of true. Tensioning and trueing are very much related and effect one another but you cannot just do one without checking the other.
Great video. But in terms of mm., what is the limit of acceptable out of round for a 26 in. wheel?
What tools did the Wright Brothers use to build bicycles?
I am using this app actively. But I wish there is an offline version, or even a mobile app.
It is designed to be mobile friendly. Offline is not in our sights currently.
I'd like to second this request. I'm sure many users would happily pay a small fee for a phone or desktop app with the option to save files locally.
If that's still not in your plan, could you perhaps add an option on the web version to save files locally?
Excellent explanation, thankyou guys from Park Tool, that helped me understanding the theory of truing rims, more than the practical stuff I do on mine, I'd like to have this guy truing my wheels! Nice mustache hahaha
What pen do you use to write on black rim?
I have a silver Sharpie but I think it is paint rathet than ink so I don't want to use it and ruin my wheel.
Please tell what pen you use and I will go buy the same one. Thank you.
How should recommended spoke tension be interpreted for the rear wheel, where the tension between the spokes on the two sides can be substantial?
Manufacturers publish a max tension for their rims. Even some hub manufacturers have max tensions listed. The max tension is going to apply to the drive side spokes of the rear wheel. When building the rear wheel you will bring the tension up on the drive side up to the max or what you would like, and the non-drive sides tension will be figured out for you as there is no way to increase the tension on the non drive side without either increasing Drive side (which would go above max tension) or having an out of dish wheel. Hub and rim manufacturers try to make up for this with offset rims, different flange diameters, asymmetrical rear triangles and lacing patterns. This is probably confusing and I apologize. Let me know if I can help you understand further.
Thank you. I understand that on the rear wheel I achieve the target tension on the drive side and let the tension on the non-drive side be what it turns out to be.
Thank you for another great video! Using the TM-1 tension meter with the Park Tool Wheel Tension App has helped me do a great job building my first set of wheels. And what I have learned using the tension meter and the app will help me to do a better job of truing wheels even if I don't have the tension meter or app available.
Fantastic video, thanks for sharing!
Do park tools make a tension meter of smaller wheels? I.E. 406 rims as the TM-1 doesn't fit.
At this time, the TM-1 needs about 100mm of free spoke without crosses to fit. For the small wheel with cross lacing, it does not fit. We have no other option at this time.
@@parktool OK. Thank you for replying.
I'll just keep on doing it by ear then, to get an even tension.
It would be nice to know if I'm getting the correct (within manufacturers specification) tension though.
So if your spokes are all tensioned to within say 10% of suggested tolerance does that mean your wheels should be true ?
What do you do if you have broken spokes but don't have the ability to fix them at the time?
Hey Calvin. I ride a unicycle with a 24" wheel for about 6 years, and just lately my spokes have been breaking. . At every month or so, I had one break, then two, then another. Probably a half dozen within a year. I don't do any hard impact tricks, but lots of static balancing/idling stuff. I saw one of your video and I pretty much know what you will conclude. I need a whole new set of spokes. I'm considering lacing myself, because I think it will be easier since equal spoke tension is more important than perfect trueing(total runout) for slow unicycling.
With that many broken spokes its likely time for a new rim and a new set of spokes. The old rim and old spokes have been fatigued. An opportunity to learn a new skill and possibly improve your Uni's wheel!
HI ! Will you please give us an advice as to what spoke tension to consider between the tension when the tire is removed from the wheel and tension when tire is on the wheel and inflated? I mean I measured tension of an ultegra wheel without tire and got 19 on the scale of parktool tension meter , but when I measured without the tire inflated, it returned 16 on the scale. Which of two should we consider when checking against manufacturer tension recommendation? Thank you!
It is normal for tension to drop from the tire under pressure. Manufactures give tension rating assume it is without tire, as if wheel building.
Watching Calvin mess with the computer is strange. Just shows how much of an expert he is on the bikes themselves, he doesn't need that technology
Excellent tutorial!
13:26
The problem is that if you correct tension of a “bad” spoke, you have to recheck all other spokes since their tension is changed too. All the recordings in a form will be different.
amgluk in my experience, for practical uses, it’s okay to just input the corrections. Measuring every spoke again will not show significant difference since the tool has a limited accuracy of “half a number” as Calvin said in the video.
So usefull video. Thank you very much.
Very useful video and explanation. Nice to see this kind of videos. Congrats ;)
How do you deal with jump?
Loved the vid. Very well done.
You guys are amazing!
Every time i balance spokes in one area, the entire tension of the wheel changes. My spokes are too short, and im not sure if that contributing to that. Ive got the tension pretty much maxed out because of the short spokes. Should i be worried? Also the app crashed 😡 right after entering everything
just a question, if i have the tm-1, do i really need a true stand or to dish the wheel? i think these errors are easy to see with a tension meter. Is just an opinion, or of a question :)) do am i right? or need all the tools to make the things right>?
I know this is a bit old of a question, but the short answer is "yes" you do need the different tools because they measure different dimensions of the wheel. The truing stand provides a gauge to show whether the rim is "straight" without wobble side to side (lateral trueness) and without flat spots in the circle (radial trueness). The dish tool shows whether the rim is centered between the hub faces, so that it will be centered in the bike. You can have "even" tension on the spokes, but the wheel is too far to one side. Or you can have even spoke tension, but the rim is not straight. You can true and dish the wheel so it runs straight and centered, but have uneven spoke tension. If this is the case, the wheel will quickly/easily lose that straight shape you gave it.
Is Calvin the best bike mechanic in the world? I feel like he might be
somehow i missed this video... very informative thanks Park Tool
Why is it that you have different tension ranges for the left and right side? (shown in the app as the blue line being wider than the yellow line). Shouldn't both sides of the wheel, left and right, have the same tension?
Some wheels are symmetric, many wheels are not. A-symmetrical wheels have higher tension on the most steep side in order to get the rim in the middle. Imagine you pull the rim to one side, would you pull downward ore sidewards? Well, what's going on in a wheel is not that extreme, but somewhere in that direction.