If you ask me cyberpsychosis is real but not in the way that arasaka or any of the corporations say so. Basically from my perspective there's good explanation for why cyber-psychosis would actually be a genuine medical condition namely being that the Chrome is definitely going to end up having the unintentional side effect metal leaching its way into your brain. More specifically it's going to be heavy metals entering your brain which is a known factor to cause psychosis in the real world and given the type of people who Chrome themselves up are typically going to be in violent lines of work and are typically going to have more violent tendencies because of said work it's not surprising that as they start to give in to their psychosis, they start to perhaps become more violent and that trait of varies becomes more exaggerated. No I'm certain that keeping a healthy mental state is definitely going to be a big thing in helping ensure you maintain your hold on reality so it won't be perfect as again, too much Chrome is going to mean that there's going to be a lot more heavy metal entering your brain meaning no matter what there's no one who's going to be necessarily immune to cyberpsychosis and less of course they have one specific thing which is something that V / Johnny actually has which I wouldn't be surprised if Adam Smasher actually also has which is to say, they don't have organic brains but rather have essentially nanites supercomputers that function identically to how neurons would function but without the drawbacks of being organic cells that can't regenerate and can take damage that will be permanent from the things as simple as heavy metal deposits in the brain. In other words the fact that they have literally no organic means they have nothing that could cause psychosis aside from their own mental strain and their own thought process fucking up.
That's why in cyberpunk 2077, the "Save Your Soul program" was so undeniably completely and utterly important to basically all corporations. It's the one thing that cannot only mean that the fat cats at the top get to live forever as they no longer have any organic body parts that will age and eventually die but on top of that, it also means they can have fully borged out soldiers who won't succumb to cyberpsychosis and it could also theoretically mean they could find the perfect soldier who will listen to them no matter what and clone that Consciousness over and over again to have a perfect Army of Clone borg Troopers
I do remember reading/hearing somewhere that Adam Smasher actually is a cyberpsycho. We just can't tell because Adam Smasher was such a psychopath when he was "sane" that not much changed when he went cyberpsycho. The only reason he holds back is because Arasaka provides much more interesting situations for him to kill stuff than it would be for him to just mow down random citizens. Even in the show, a lot of his dialogue alludes to the idea that he kills because he finds it fun and not because it pays well or because of loyalty to Arasaka. Basically, he's a highly functional cyberpsycho.
Which is the exact opposite of how it work in the RPG. So yeah I think it is just a rumor, and the best explanation is just some are built different, and I guess smaher has high empathy. Damn that's weird to say that they probably should named the mechanic something else.
@@benjaminparent4115 He's a high functioning psychopath. if you read into the fluff of cyberpsychosis in the book, it's a dissociative disorder that turns everything into an object, including the self, and can , but not always, either develop or uninhibit pathological tendencies. how that plays out depends on the character the player or game master plays. and not all Cybeshychos are "violent" but it can get to a point where they lose their original sense of self, which in the game is in the form of the player relinquishing their character to the GM. One of the expressions of having low humanity in the RPG is being a psychopath to begin with. I'd also call the scene of Lucy hacking into Smasher, unlike everyone else, which retains a digital persona of themselves, he takes the form of a monster. it's evidence that at least suggests that he no longer perceives himself as human.
i can do it with only one cyberware... and my cyberware is a small sensor that check my glucose levels on blood, but i did those jiggly wiggly with my eyes even before those chrome choom
@@Unfortunate_developement i know your issue, but i not had insulin pump, i live in brazil those stuff here worth a rich car, soo, better keep injections and have money to bought insuline LOL, those sensors i got is already really spensive, my cousin wife has diabetes type 1 about 10 years now, she not use it, and my cousin earn about 4k dolls montly, and she earn about 1k+ dols montly, i earn less, but i not have children to take care, soo, i can afford using a huge portion of my income, but is soo easier live with those glucose sensors that i never want step back, no matters how expensive it become now with Lula increasing health costs in taxes a lot, i mean he double the value of a taxe, and increase others the final price in a single montly was almost doubled on almost all meds here, we are fucked now... Anyway, i can keep for now at least
For V, there's an in-universe answer that's feels like a cop out. It was already stated that from the moment V put the Artifact in his head it started slowly rewriting their entire body to make it more suitable for the second ego (in this case Silverhand). This process was vastly accelerated when V took a lead aspirin. At the end of the game it's revealed that in 6 months time "V" will "die" and be "replaced" by Silverhand. This is more or less an indirect affirmation that the last stage of the intended process is the overwriting of the original host's ego. That last bit is the most important part; though fixing the hole in V's head was confirmation enough imo. If the Artifact is spending *months* constantly rewiring the very tissue of the host's brain to the point that the most minute of signal transfers between synapses can be changed to make it more suitable for the new host, it then stands to reason that the Artifact would be constantly overwriting any abnormalities created in the perpetual meantime. Considering that cyberpsychosis is treated as a brain deformation, it would mean the Artifact is keeping that from setting in as well; after all, a psycho's brain wouldn't be suitable for the new host if it was still psycho when the new host took over now would it? This means V's immunity to going cyberpsycho is based on their ego being slowly overwritten over half a year. This basically means V can Borg out as much as they want and Silverhand eventually benefits from this body without any of the repercussions.
If you let Johnny take over on the final raid on Arasaka tower he points out that he knows a few tricks with the cyberware V already installed, which is why netrunning (as an example) still works when playing as Johnny in the final battle (I think)
So you can augment your body as much as you like if you have an Artifact with a copy of your mind in it? Since it will try to make it as sootable for this new mind as possible, which is you, that means you will never go cyberpsycho. Howevet, you will eventually get replaced by a past version of yourself, so you need a way to constantly update the mind on the Artifact to never lose your memories and to also keep the Artifact in an eternal cycle of alteration.
I've always figured that cyberpsychosis is completely dependent on the mental state of the user. That was the vibe I got with David, since he was chroming more and more, before finally snapping with the Cyber-Skeleton. But the reason for him snapping wasn't just the cyberware, it was all the insane psycho shit in his life that led him to that point, on top of his girlfriend being captured by the same Arasaka scumbag that screwed over Maine. David is the last person that should've gotten chromed, but he did so anyway because it was the only thing he felt gave him the strength to fight and protect the things he cared about most.
Despite his financial living conditions he had a very good life. A loving mother, a mentor, a possible career path, and a lover. These were slowly stripped away and he began to cope with it by increasing his cyberware. Mike podsmith actually commented on cyberpsychosis on how it's similar to steroid addiction/roid rage. With a good support network behind the person they can stave off the effects of steroid addiction. The worse someone becomes mentally the less protection they have from the rage and begin to lash out. The only difference is irl it's a man with more muscles while in cyberpunk it's a literal arm rocket launcher. This is why cyberpsychosis can be "cured". You just need someone to monitor and administer the proper treatments regularly to prevent an outburst.
To me is seems like a chicken and egg scenario. Do less psychology stable people tend to chrome themselves more to cope with the mental illness caused by the society they live in such that when they eventually go mad they are a literal killing machine? Or does augmenting yourself cause you to become mentally ill leading you to want to augment yourself more and more such that when you are more augmented you are more mentally ill and reach a point where you are killing machine?
So its sounds like normal psychosis pushed to an extreme with the cuberware, but with a much higher potential for violence due to only affecting walking talking super weapond
It’s heavily implied even in the game too. The real state of Cyberpsychosis is basically: Mental Condition + chrome. David pretty much fucked that and became that, V had a good mental condition, the relic, a partner and resilience.
I honestly feel that Cyberpsychosis is a blanket term used for people who develop mental issues as a result of a combination both emotional trauma and the mental load of excessive cyberware use. It is also used by corps to conveniently take out problematic individuals without raising too much suspicion.
It also allows corporations and politicians to frame Cyberpsychosis as an individual failure, akin to how nowadays they treat issues such as drug addiction or homelessness. The affected person is at fault for chroming themselves up carelessly and pushing themselves into becoming murderous killing machines. This way, they don't have to acknowledge that probably the root cause for cyberpsychosis is the very economically and psychologically unstable environment which the Megacorporations created, in which even most people who managed to climb up the corporate ladder have to constantly face the risk of losing everything on a whim.
@@The_KingDogemike pondsmith himself confirmed it in response to a tweet similar to the original comment with and I’m paraphrasing here “Took y’all 30 years, but yah finally figured it out.”
On the subject of V's cyberpsychosis. The story of Cyberpunk 2077 takes place over a relatively short period of time and by what we've been shown it takes some time for cyberpsychosis to manifest in violent outbursts. However if we talk about slightly breaking the fourth wall, the player, depending on their playstyle, might be the manifestation of V's cyberpsychosis, as they make V run around Night City and indulge in slaughtering everyone that doesn't get them a bounty on their head.
I always felt his cyberpsychosis manifested as Johnny Silverhand. Yeah he had the shard rewriting his brain, but him seeing Johnny and having conversations with him in the real world was V's own mind going crazy and attempting to make sense of what was happening to him.
@@jaanzi4347 I see you posted this two weeks ago. It's odd that you'd say this when Phantom Liberty brings new information that debunks this theory. Songbird, a character in the DLC, is able to hack your Relic - which allows her to not only see, but speak to Johnny, and "mute" him, thus preventing him from speaking to you while she has some one on one with you. Also, you can show pictures of the tarot murals to Vik. So Johnny is "real". V's perception of him certainly exists - it's just a byproduct of the Relic.
I imagine cyberpsychosis to be similar to phantom pains, because the body knows that something is wrong but cannot do something to act against it so I manifests onto the mind, which is then amplified by the strain the implants put on the nervous system
I assumed it was due to the body to brain ratio getting funky as the individual's size grows the brain can't keep up with it and it starts disassociating in order to allocate resources to process the new information That would explain why most people who suffer from cyberpsychosis usually start to develop it as they add mechanical bodymass and women who focus on more tech related gadgets as opposed to strength one's aren't as likely to get it
@airplanes_aren.t_real no that wouldn't be the case because the brain (while being a piece of shit) would be able to tolerate a bulk in nervous tissue as that's what body builders deal with and implants do require X in terms of physiology to be usable, course forcing it would cause that but david did bulk up
Why else would you see nature all around you during those breaks. The mind wants to return to nature, more naturally a green environment with leaves and trees.
I think that cyberpsychosis is, in the context of the world and not as a mechanic in the TTRPG, a scapegoat term used to avoid getting help to people suffering from mental illness. Think about it, just about every single time you come across a mentally ill person in 2077, the term "cyberpsychosis" is used, and even when you come across someone who isn't to the point of cyberpsychosis (thinking of the gig where you meet a guy with PTSD) the term may still come to mind. There is also MaxTac, who seems to be comprised of former cyberpsychos, as shown by the intro of 2077, but this is never directly addressed by ANYONE. Isn't that weird? That these psychotic people, supposedly beyond being helped, comprise the most dangerous defense force in the city? There's also the matter of Maelstrom, who are so packed with cybernetics that they are referred to as "borgs," with many of them seeming to show signs of cyberpsychosis, mainly lack of empathy, and they apparently aren't a threat. Cyberpsychosis is not a specific condition or illness, but merely a term for those who just can't take it anymore and break due to a variety of mental illnesses.
Cyberpycosis is not used or everyone. It's used in particular who've gotten to much chrome, had a very traumatic experience in the past, and haven't been able to take meds. Most Cyberppycos have been either people have had been forced to have chrome installed, was an ex military, or just some gonk who got to chromed up. It's used for everyone and hasn't been stated be use for everyone. It's a unique mental instability to those who've installed chrome with extra capabilities out side the norm.
@@redgamemaster Melissa Rory, from the teaser trailer. If you got the right perks and origin V will ask about her Mantis Blades which caused neural issues. Melissa responds by saying that she keeps them to remind her about her psychotic break in which she killed 15 people in the teaser. She also off-hand states that she loves killing. MaxTac is as crazy if not crazier than the Cyberpsychos they sent to kill.
I feel like cyberpsychosis is a system overload with psychological hallucinations from depression, that's probably what is causing the screens we see when they enter that state. For example like what we see with maine when we see that he is in a desert surrounding, we know that part of his depression is caused by him feeling the need to always be better no matter the cost. How he fears to be a weaker form of himself, we also know what having a ton of chrome installed can cause as well. The implants are probably responding to the brain signals therefore projecting through the optical ware what we see. Another example is with David when he enters cyberpsychosis, He mentions about being on the top of arasaka like his mother wanted him to be before the accident.
Yeah cyberpsychosis is often portrayed with people’s innermost desires/fears which makes it even more real and scary. I could definitely see it as a system overload tied in with depression
I think it also has something to do with the central nervous system. There are old stories from early 20th century of a guy who after getting a steel rod through a part of his frontal lobe suffered a complete personality shift. Chippin in too much chrome makes the brain deal with a lot of OS handshaking. Literally links that are no longer the same, or become more complicated. The brain could start malfunctioning and sending the wrong signals in the wrong places, thus starting a process thatcan lead to cyberpsychosis. In-world, cyberpsychosis therapy is a thing, for all the good it can or can't do. If it wasn't, maxtac wouldn't be safe to be around. Then there's dialing back the chrome, literally getting meat back. I'm probably rambling 😮💨😮💨
@@alexhulea2735 I don't think they "get meat back" so to speak but rather lessen the load of their cybernetics. It's noted in universe that low-quality and exotic functioning cyberware (Mantas blades, arm cannons, having your lower body removed and adhered into an experimental battle suit holding firepower capable of leveling half a city, etc.) will drastically increase your chances of developing cyberpsychosis. Dialing all that back, getting decent: low-tech cyberware replacements and pursuing aggressive therapy to deal with the underlying problems is likely what actually happens.
It is worth mentioning that in the original Tabletop game that inspired the videogame and later the anime, Cyberpsychosis was a gameplay element introduced as a buffer so that Player Characters (PCs) didn´t got too OP by simply installing all the cyberware they could get their hands on without any drawbacks. So, in a way, is basically a story element that acts as a nerf for another: Basically, every time you would install a piece of cyberware in your body, on top of having to deal with acquiring said equipment in the first place and the monetary costs of installations, you would also have to sustain a variable cost of "Humanity Points" loss, a stat not unlike STR or DEX in any roleplaying game, one that couldn´t be replenished except by removing said implants and neither could be increased with level. In other words, the more cyberware you would install, the less your “empathy”, your humanity stat, would be, and would force you to put the character at a bigger risk of going berserk against everyone in sight, your friends included, acting as a necessary drawback so that cyberware didn´t became too OP, forcing players to play around it, and decide whenever their inherent advantages were worth the risk or not, so that implants would not turn into a crutch to easily archive victory and forcing them to choose carefully which implants they would, or would not, put in their bodies. It’s also worth noting that there were other futuristic options for increasing the stats of your PCs, some of them including more "natural", like bio-augmentation, that didn´t had that penalty... mostly because, in the setting, bio-augmentation is something very difficult to obtain. Apparently, you cannot get it anywhere outside of Europe (where, fun fact, they actually disapprove of cybernetics), and it´s so costly, even corpos cannot easily afford it. So, you wouldn´t suffer from loss of "Humanity" but the drawback was that the chances of obtaining some were very slim... So, in all about, even thought there are many explanation and theory, the truth is, it was something put there just to force players to not rely too much on cybernetics
True, I imagine there was a meeting where the devs for 2077, mike pondsmith, and the creators of Edgerunners had to hash out what was canon or not 😂 This is super interesting, thanks for this! I didn’t know Europe disapproved of the use of cyberware!
@Lex Bright Raven not only, if i'm not wrong, in Europe all cyberware Is Medical-Grade and is installed in a hospital, so It could also be that in NC cyberware Is trash and installed in a non-safe environment, which leads to rejection syndrome Edit: spelling
That would be a fun mod. Replace Johnny with Sandler, just use a bunch of random lines when he speaks. It could be fun to see how much sense you could have it make.
We see David slowly grow more overconfident and distant as he gets more cyberware. In his new body he claims to be "special" and "different", and he doesn't talk to Lucy as much. It's very likely to be some sort of effect of depression/anxiety combined with the placebo of cybernetics turning you crazy. The more people warn David, the more angry, cold and ruthless he became. He believed he lost his humanity and crumbled under pressure. Speaking from experience depression can make you very aggressive, and it'll make you see yourself as a monster. But humanity and empathy as stats may be literal, as David yells about killing Faraday his whole body shakes, and when he sees Lucy, someone he loves and is loved by he comes to his senses. And hence why women are less likely to get it, they tend to be more loving and empathetic.
As someone who suffers from PTSD, Cyberpsychosis is something that can be triggered. BUT the only difference is the duration of this Cyberpsychosis. Like PTSD, things as simple as a loud sound or memories can trigger someone to act rashly or in an act of violence towards anyone indiscriminately. Cyberpsychosis is also tends to happen with someone wearing outdated cybernetics that haven't been enhanced or lost support. baloperidol is a drug used to treat cyberpsychosis as well as long periods of time strapped down by corpos while experiencing a brain dance with a cyberpsychologist. The quick hack of Cyberpsychosis is an attack on the sensors for AI to redirect threat protocol. To humans? It's more of a overload on the neural network software compared to true Cyberpsychosis that is directly caused by the victim themselves. I faced alot of the same feelings when I lost a loved one was engaged to a while back. She lost her life in a car accident while I was at work. I dropped everything at my job to be with her, rushing there, putting my life on the line and couldn't make up my mind under all the stress of getting to the hospital. Its that adrenaline that I feel most Cyberpsychos feel when they lost it. That mind breaking stress and anger of things breaking apart around them. So much being taken away to a point that you don't care whose in front of you. Surely enough she did die before I got there. She died merely 20 minutes before I even got an answer of where she was, which room she was in. Her hand was still warm when I got there and I couldn't bare to leave her side. Nurses and doctors alike tried comforting me but I shoved it all away, wanting her to wake up, wanting her not to leave me alone again. But surely enough I couldn't let her go, even deceived myself thinking she was just sleeping, that this was all just some joke and she would just wake up and call me a wussy. I tried shaking her, lifting her up, trying to get her to lean up but nothing worked. I had to accept that she had just died.I hated everyone in the room. All that modern technology, all those greedy little corporations that saved so many couldn't save her. All the medicine and large amounts of money spent on these bastards becoming doctors and they couldn't bring her back. I wanted to go where she had gone and I wanted to express my anger for the world all at once. The one thing keeping me together, make me believe that this world was worth living in just died mere moments and I'm haunted by the fact that she may have been looking for me before she passed. So here I am, wanting to die with her, not wanting to say goodbye, these emotions not leaving me and not a single soul in the room could reach me. I could only remember so much however, I was arrested and put into a rehab where I made several attempts to take my own life, banging my head against the wall, screaming her name in tears as I knew I would never see her again. Dying wasnt a fear anymore. It took months for me to get my head back together but even up to this very day, I would still do anything to see her smile or hear her voice again. Mentioning her name just strikes so much of that feeling of anguish. I guess losing that supportive environment would cause it greatly. So much anxiety and pain all at once and then having cybernetic implants that react upon your neural software? Once your humanity is thrown out of the window with no one to turn to? Not believing something isn't your fault? being the reason a loved one perished? Seeing someone you truly care for die or move on without you? When the world betrays you? When you resort to drugs and alcohol to distract the mind, never getting the true help you need? Its that emotion that becomes the dangerous ball of fire we truly call Cyberpsychosis and in Night City? Getting help for that doesn't come cheap or at all. Mike Pondsmith is a genius. This is exactly what is believed even in reality. People who believe that PTSD isn't real exists just as those who believe Cyberpsychosis isn't real until it happens near them...Then MaxTac is called out to take care of them.They aren't looked at as people anymore but monsters hellbent of creating chaos and destroying lives until they are taken out.
Wow man this is super deep, thanks for sharing. Your perspective is super important; understanding how people view those with ptsd and how sometimes the victims are viewed as the victimizers. Terribly sorry for your loss
@@bumperjumper It's a truth that must be spoken. Night City is filled with people who are trying to live their lives. The use of cybernetics is mandatory for some kind of assurance of survival. Not to mention that Edgerunners are people willing to die to rise to the top or reach their goals. Edgerunners are people who do what that can to survive even if it means killing, stealing and selling illegal goods. Seeing the chaos is one thing. Losing those that you have an emotional attachment to is another. We've watched people who had emotional attachment to people go down faster than those in Maelstrom. Maelstrom is filled with killers,psychos and freaks that are already hell bent. Why aren't they majorly the ones who are cyberpsychos? They sedate their emotional pain through drugs and alcohol, working like a wolf pack, submitting to the alpha or killed off. Most Cyberpsychos that have been come across are Ex-military soldiers, current soldiers, victims of Maelstrom torture (such as overloading someone with cybernetics), people victim to testing the exoskeleton prototypes and people seemingly betrayed by people that loved them.
@@Zyphernetic great stuff; I’ve heard from multiple people the idea that maelstrom uses substances and even music to keep cyberpsychosis at bay. It’s sad to think people exposing themselves to potential cyberpsychosis feels somewhat mandatory to protect themselves or “keep up.”
Jesus, brother. Fight the good fight. I hope your days and Holliday season get easier. Thank you for falling down that rabbit hole to type this out and share your story. If you feel the need to vent some shit off of your chest to an unbiased stranger, click my bubble and shoot me an email. I've been in a similar situation, and I don't need to ask questions. I know advice is best asked for and not offered.
I initially thought cyberpsychosis was a buzzword corporations were using to spin narratives around and dispatch undesirables under the excuse of "chrome drove them crazy and dangerous", while in reality they were people having breakdowns and crisis that were only seen and talked about because they were armed or someone with influence needed them gone. As if cyberpsychosis didn't exist because it wasn't outright cause by implants, but the conditions of those who went after that many implants. You convinced me I got it backwards, I now consider it the result of an existing thing complicated by implants, that got coopted by corporations into the concept I assumed was entirely fabricated where anyone with just too many implants could develop.
My thought are the tabletop gameplay mechanics are abstractions over a range of factors. Immunosupressors messing with your head, bad implants, body dysphoria from modding yourself, PTSD from the hard life that forces them to mod themselves... All come together to make a person snap. And it gets labeled 'cyberpsychosis', but it's more another symptom than a disorder. With this in mind, the stat requirements and lack of dramatic physical changes in the game actually go some way to explain why V is not affected. They never mod themselves in a way their body can't take and they never change their body plan in such a way that they don't see their body as them. David and Maine both when they hallucinate see themselves unmodded, suggesting they never saw the changed appearance from modding as part of their mental image of themselves. V in contrast has a very strong emotional view of their body as theirs and not just a tool, as we see throughout the game, and only dissociates from the chip. They also have a lot of support from characters like Vic, Misty and the various people they meet and even are shown to be friendly with lots of the people they share their flat block with which helps with the mental toll their lifestyle takes on them. The closest they come to breaking is after the Arasoka heist, and you can easily imagine a world where lacking that support structure they broke completely and went full cyberpsycho. (Malestrom on the otherhand are basically all cyberpsychos, their gang structure just glorifies it and provides an outlet)
I have a feeling that, barring directed manipulation, it really could just be trauma. With the amount of violence, tyranny, and debauchery that Night City is numb to, and being in a state, "fight or flight," it just gets easier and easier to pick fight.
I'll be honest, I've never believed it was a real thing. Admittedly, the anime made me doubt this a lot, but think about the people we see affected. David experienced deaths, massive changes to his life, and untold pressure. And worse yet, Lucy was actively in danger, which I can only imagine was making it worse. Hence why when he does get her back, he has that terminal lucidity. But there's countless other examples. Maine had to deal with leading the crew and the feeling of being "on top" and good enough. There are missions in 2077 where you find veterans who are denied PTSD meds, who stop going to therapy. Addicts going berserk trying to get a fix. Hell, you take down a man who was pretty much going through the plot of Taken, trying to get his daughter back. I think it's not about cyberware amplifying feelings, though. People, to some degree, experience all this in our world. Cyberware empowers these people to lash out, because that's how some people cope. Or it empowers them to take action against what's causing them so much stress, and they get lumped together in the news. On people like V, it's really more about mindset. I don't want to say "they can handle it", but it is the case that when things go bad, they have coping mechanisms other than lashing out. I also would say, V has a goal. They're trying to live. I'm sure if they did have no hope, there'd be some sort of final blaze of glory. I don't know, say... Storming Arasaka HQ with a bunch of mercs or nomads? V, to a degree, is a cyberpsycho. They're leaving a trail of violence in their wake pursuing a goal like many others. Think about David. His body wasn't taking well to the implants, sure, but he was doing at least alright up until a massive load of stress hit him. Lucy getting taken, Kiwi's betrayal, the millitech ambush. But until then, he was at least there, he could hold conversations. So could Maine, until the mission went sideways. And that guy going after his daughter Taken-style, only went "psycho" killing the gangsters that took her. What really makes V different? Hell, what makes Smasher different? They all have targets. People they can focus on. And sure, it's still a psychotic break. That's why Maine went into that semi non-responsive state. Why David was so out of it until he got Lucy back. But I mentioned terminal lucidity before, a term used in regards to dementia. Where before death, the subject is sometimes fully aware, despite the deteriorating mental state they've been in for months or years at that point. But that's why Regina's getting V to take psychos in alive, how MaxTac recruits the ones that are responsive to therapy. But not everyone is! Some people refuse treatment, some people are genuinely fried by cyberware and substance abuse. But they can be saved. At least, it's worth trying. Some can be. Really, Maelstrom's in that same vein. They act out violently, but more importantly maim themselves in, to some degree, a way of externalizing their inner anguish. And, sure. There's at least some that are doing it to look cool with their buds. But I do believe, if you were fed up flipping burgers and getting stepped on regardless, and you see these borged out freaks just doing what they want, taking what they want? You'd likely at least be tempted. And the sorts of people that would turn to a group like the maelstrom are the same sorts that would chip themselves up alone, just to be taken seriously. That's why David got the sandevistan put in, after all! And when you have that power, it's easy to disconnect from other people. That's why so many murders are shootings. You're much more able to disconnect. If your hands are metal, sensations alien and dulled, would you even feel the crack of somebody's skull, would you realize you were going too far? And that's just with something like gorilla arms. Carrying a firearm in real life already causes people to act much more aggressively, but now give that same person a military grade explosive cannon in their arm, the ability to move multitudes of times faster than other people, armor plating, chips that turn down their pain receptors. There's implants that reward people for killing! And sure, that one you can blame that last one of gameplay mechanics for 2077, but I digress. Society in 2077 glorifies violence, glorifies people like Johnny Silverhand who stood up to injustice, sells military grade ordinance on practically every street, yet people are confused on why there's more people acting out against a fundamentally dysfunctional society. That's just my 3AM interpretation, though- TL:DR, cyberpsychosis is just a real life phenomenon highlighted by irresponsible capitalism and increased stress.
There is canon truth to this theory, but there’s also no denying that there’s a physical and mental strain caused by large amounts of cyberware either. When David put on the Cyber Skeleton, he needed repeat boluses of anti-psychotics just to form sentences coherently and see the world as it was. He’d be brought back to reality for a few minutes, then break again, and not because of a particular event, but simply because the antipsychotics could not combat the strain from his cyberware. We see massive amounts of medicine being dumped into his central circulation (presumably.) We also know that having more bodymass allows people to handle mental symptoms better, lending credence to the idea that cyber psychosis has a partially physical origin. This makes sense; The brain is a part of the body. Cyberware forms new connections and pathways within the body, and many pieces of combat cyberware canonically do so by stimulating the brain to produce large amounts of various fight-or-flight hormones. Although these are low grade implants, the toll from even these would be intense from repeated use.
That seems right to me. The idea of sci-fi is to either ask "What if this thing was doable?" or "What if X thing IRL keeps going?" Combat Cybernetics is building a gun into your arm, so now you can never put it down. It's the same problem superpowers would have, the option to use force/violence is now always there, immediately at hand. You have a hammer, do you want to look for a screwdriver or is this a problem you think you can solve 'well enough' with a nail? When human beings are confronted with a problem, they will default to whatever they use most, whatever worked before, before considering a novel approach to the problem. That might just mean thinking "Can I lift that up?" and immediately dismissing it "That's way too heavy." but the process is always there. The more often a given approach solves a problem, the more they tend to lean on it.
wow, a really thoughtful write-up... I just want to add that I feel cyberpsychosis is the direct result of three levels of dissociation at once. The chrome itself makes you dissociative from your own body physically, the superiority complex that cyberpsychos develop dissociates them from their sense of empathy, and the new alter-ego that forms around the idea of the "new, chromed you" dissociates one from their sense of self, from their memories and values, etc. With all those layers removed, there's little room left for a thinking creature, and you're left with a scared animal
What people are forgetting is the source material for both of these are based on cyberpunk 2020, the tabletop game from Mike pondsmith and I'm pretty sure in the GM guide it tells you what cyberpsychosis is and why it happens. As much as I like fan theories, this one already has an explanation since it's not left ambiguous, the only reason we don't go cyberpsycho in 2077 is just a limitation of the game.
This. I didn't even watch the video, I know it's a core gameplay mechanic of 2020 and MOST DEFINITELY part of the lore and a reality of the in-game universe. The notion that "it's not real" immediately sounded wonky to me. I just came to see if anyone else in the comments realized the same.
@@night_city_nights ...No, as a longtime fan of the Cyberpunk universe (well before the anime or 2077), this theory is basically confirmed fact. Look up stuff Mike Pondsmith has said about cyberpsychosis. Chrome does cause neural strain, but the primary causes of cyberpsychosis are stress and detachment from reality due to someone's mental state and perspective on the value of life and their own humanity or lack of it. It isn't the cyberwear itself that makes someone lose humanity (which is a tracked stat) but rather that people installing a lot of it tend to SEE themselves as distanced from humanity. Cyberpsychosis is pretty much just falling into "normal" violent psychosis in a world where everyone is horribly traumatized in uncountable ways basically all of the time. Chrome doesn't exactly help things but it is 100% not actually the cause of the problem.
@@MalkuthSephira Cyberpsychosis is definitely caused by the cybernetics themselves. If it was purely mental you could treat it with mental health drugs, instead you treat it with immunosuppressents these cause the immune system to be less efficient. The cybernetics are being treated as foreign bodies by the human body. causing a cancer like effect this along with the detachment to their humanity as they replace more and more of their body their mind starts break. you have to remember that even most people in cyberpunk have implants in their brain some people can only handle that, a brain implant. some can handle more. Its just like real life so some people are very receptive to donor organs some just arent. With just about everyone having brain implants its no wonder their mind starts to to deteriorate when they get too many implants because its like they basically have brain cancer if someone lets it get to bad it turns them mad and eventually kills them. Cyberpsychosis is a disease more than it is just a mental illness some are more prone some arent.
If you get a high enough police rating in the game they call you a cyberpsycho and bring in maxtax so this could also mean that cyberpsycho's are defined by their violence and could be perfectly sane just violent and in the game you can knock out cyberpsycho's and they tell you there is a cure for it which wouldn't make sense unless it's just therapy and cyberpsycho's are just people who are sad and depressed and who can't bare to care anymore causing their cyberware to malfunction
Late to the party but this also lines up nicely with the real "Psychopath" term. It's not a real diagnosis you can get anywhere, the original psychopathy tests were exactly that, barely scientific police checklists wich included stuff like "promiscuous sex life" and "juvenile criminal records" as signs of it.
Maybe the reason Maelstrom and Adam are less susceptible is that you cant turn into a monster randomly if you choose to be one in the first place. Adams reputation proceeds him, but think about maelstrom. Compared to all the other gangs they are probably the most malicious gang that we know of. Unless you consider scavs a gang but scavs arent borgs either.
In lore most maelstrom members are suffering from cyberphychosis or are on the verge i think what keeps them from being worse then they are is the drugs they heavily use and the fact they have a low life expectancy and for Smasher he is Arasaka's fist so he is getting the best cyberware and the best medical care
Thing is cyberpsychosis is not just you turning into a monster. It is stated to be a dissociative disorder, meaning the persons start experiencing a disconnection and lack of continuity between thoughts, memories, surroundings, actions and or identity which is what all those trippy scene represent in the anime. I think the violent reaction is just people innate fight flight response to experience jumping scene like they are in a movie. Imagine drinking in a bar, you close your eye one second and suddenly finding yourself in the middle of the street with petty criminal being in your face. That's what cyberpsycho experience they lose their grip on reality, feel like they can no longer control their body, feel like reality is distorted, find themselves in place they don't remember going to or even why they went their. It must be a terrifying experience and given how in cyberpunk it is often killed or getting killed I think most people would react violently to that.
@@bumperjumper thats the identity aspect - if you choose to become a monster, then every action that reaffirms the process will also be reaffirming your identity and thus sense of self. Someone like David, who wants to be a good person, was bound to crack eventually because every kill is dissonant with his identity
I was under the impression that cyber psychosis was the mind rejecting the implants similar to rejecting an organ transplant but with the hysteria of claustrophobia. At least that's how I came to understand it. Basically a dysphoria triggering a panic response where the fight and flight response loops continually. What could have helped to prove it would be if one of the cyber psychos started ripping out their own implants in the depths of madness but this was never shown so for now its just my theory.
Not disagreeing with your take! Just saying in the ttrpg cyberpsychosis comes from knowingly and willingly replacing perfectly good limbs with artificial ones. Your arm is perfectly functional, but you decided that a robot one would be better. This auto dissociation with parts of your own body is what pushes you to cyberpsychosis. You're slicing off perfectly good limbs for more strength and enhanced abilities.
@@alexpasquale8870 would be a good explanation as to why Adam doesn’t show any signs of psychosis like the others do since he was saved and had no body left to replace
For me I feel as if cyberpsychosis is when the human mind ultimately stops seeing its body as it's own. Like the amount of implants and upgrades eventually has the individual stop recognizing themselves.
theory 7. All of the above. Some runners are definitely susceptible to becoming cyberpsycho - because they were already psycho or heading that way. Note that a lot of 'runners are criminals - and a lot of them doing questionable substances that will also fuck with their brain chemistry. Some cyberpsychos in the game are only "psycho" because they're getting revenge against the people who fucked them up. Some could be hacked and forced to go Cyberpsycho, either because of runners or because of corporate fuckery.
I recently just finished a mission in the game and one of the data shards explained that cyberpsichosis can happen to anyone, even if their implant is minimal such as a liver or eyes. Anyone that any given moment is feeling lonely or depressed already has a predisposition to cyberpsichosis
Sasha's "cyberpsychosys" must be just a flashy name of her custom program. Knowing how programming worked in c2020 you can make a program named "NUKE" but it literally just displays some stuff to someone and that's all.
The quick hack is just making you not able to differentiate between friend and foes and then makes you attack. Cyberpsychosis is just blanket term for people who have been psychologically broken by the world they live in and became violent.
I think that when ever someone goes cyberpsycho they leave an imprint in there cyberware. So when David got Maine's cyber arms he was probably more susceptible to cyberpsychosis. That's what I think.
I thought the exact same thing! Personally I would get the heebie jeebies wearing Maine’s arms since it contributed to him going psycho. Even if it was to honor Maine, wearing the gear of someone who went over the edge seems like there’s more to it like you say
@@bumperjumper I thought cyberpsychosis was an illness that a large corperation like arasoka made up to hinder militech contracts when in reality its just ptsd. We see this in David only after he witnessed hid father figure/mentor not just die, but kill himself in front of him. V also qualifies as a cyberpsycho, even though we were told Johnny didn't start taking over until V died, it could be because their closest friend died in their arms. Where Johnny only shows up to help guide V despite being a hallucination. Infact even Jackie shows up in instances after he passes pushing this narrative
Remember that in the 2077 game, after defeating Adam Smasher, you can see his brain through a hole in his cranium. If he was a 1.0 version of the engram (2.0 was the prototype that V steals in 2077), I don't think he would need any biological components whatsoever based on my current knowledge. Granted, I could be wrong though the idea of an army of Adam Smashers is terrifying.
“An army of Adam Smashers” - Epic. Horrifying but epic. It’d be too unpredictable/erratic for Arasaka to place so much value on Adam. An army of brainwashed David Smashers would be the imperfect dystopia of our nightmares
I don't think that would work out. Put two Adam Smashers in the same zip code and they're gonna try to take each other out. Adam Smasher is useful, but is essentially a one off. Consider, however, the Devil ending's V. (if they take the deal) Extremely capable, preserved in an engram, knows teamwork. Now, you may need to do some work to 'distinguish' the type V's from each other, just to keep any identity crisis problems from happening in the field. But it's not like that doesn't exist. Plus, V isn't a big deal _because_ of their reputation like Adam Smasher is. So you could simply make strike teams of them quietly. Now, that isn't to say there aren't logistical challenges involved, and a bit of potential groupthink issues. But it's a more viable basis than Adam Smasher for more than a one off. Funny how easily sickening levels of detachment comes to someone who runs TTRPG's.
Cyberpunk 2020 explained it fairly well: the more you chrome up, the higher your chances to lose humanity. When your humanity is gone, you are not in control anymore. Call it cyberpsychosis, call it however you want, when life, death, pain and emotions mean nothing you stop being human. You have superhuman powers and no inhibitions, you will act like a monster without feeling a thing. In 2077 they tried to give more depth to the psychology of borgs but the basic assumption remains: you get more chrome, you become less human, you go on upgrading and go crazy. Even in edgerunners they imply the only solution is downgrading before it's too late.
I always thought of it as a “fairytale” to deter people from getting too much chrome so when a person does eventually snap from the constant stress of night city, they are at least easier to deal with.
When I was playing through cyberpunk, I noticed a few of the cyberpsycho fights were ex military, and had journals referencing medications. I didn't lore dive at all, but the ones I did read gave me a feel that the condition was caused by a mixture of ptsd and withdrawals from the drugs
That is indeed the case with pretty much all of them when you take a closer look. Various horrible circumstances caused someone with enhanced Cybernetics to snap mentally. PTSD from war, pressure from unfair debt to various corps, drugs...ect, the reasons presented are many, but there is always something that pushes the person past the breaking point beyond just their chrome...except maybe that one cult ritual you can stumble into where a seemingly dead cybered woman rises from a Freezer and attacks you...
@@TheTriforceDragon Lol the first time I encountered the dead woman in the freezer I already knew what was up. Only had a weak ass fenrir, since I was at the start of act 2. Shot a whole mag at her and only shaved off like 2% health. I ran without hesitation😂
There are also several logs that highlight the dubious definition of cyberpshchosis, believing that's it's just another term invented to justify an organization like MaxTac
@@TheTriforceDragon The canonical answer is that the relic + V’s resilience and Johnny’s mind protected V from becoming a Cyberpsycho. PL pretty much confirmed this Cyberpsychosis it’s pretty much linked to Mental State + Chrome.
I would recommend reading up on it in the tabletop rpgs sourcebooks as well and there are some psychologists that compare it to how a normal psychosis develops since trauma and trying to escape from reality is common in night city. Considering how random the targets are (like the bum in the anime) I dont think theres any active involvement. Im more curious how the cyberpsycho hack works but I think its just creating hallucinations like you would have when you go full cyberpsycho so you think your friends are the enemy
its just a virus that invades the software or a person's operating system and causes severe irritation and confusion. it tricks the brain to send certain signals and shuts off those needed and can even cause the brain to run on auto pilot
I like hearing this theory. Because this probably could mean that David wasn’t screwed anyways except another theory that I love is being used as a test subject working to Arasaka.
The term "Cyberpsychosis" is just a scapegoat by corps to label a much deep rooted issue. Most of them experience cyberpsychosis due to mix of ptsd, overdose of medication, drug usage and implant overload. Though one interesting point is that women are more resistant to cyberpsychosis.
I think the reason women get it less is simply because they're typically just less likely to go as far. With cyberpunks hyper sexualized and hyper desensitized world, a lot of women are mostly getting body mods that deal with appearance or self defense or that just help with ease of life. Its really only the gangers and military that go far with the cybernetics and once again in cyberpunk it mostly men in those positions and the mods they get are much more body deforming and serious. Its clear women can be cyberpsychos. I think its just that women typically get less invasive cyberware as opposed to men. I mean look at david. His cyberware loadout was mostly body mods as well but they increased his body size almost double while women would typically get mods that add accessories or enhance natural features and make things better in bed or make it so they can taze creeps who touch them
That mission with the mayor. There is an entire other upper shadow world in Night City that we don't even know about. Also, what if the answer is All of the Above?
I think the answer is much more simpler than that and you exactly touched it before introducing your first theory: Cyberpsychosis is just like regular psychosis. But the term "cyber" refers specifictly to highly upgraded individual, as their weaponmade bodies, once out of control from the user clear mind, becomes an actual danger to society. Hence there are both psychoes and cyberpsychoes in the world of cyberpunk. And as to what could trigger it, maybe it's also as simple as people relying too much on machinerie to define themselves, and become more and more detaches from their real selves and this is that mismatch that the mind cannot handle. Not the oveload itself.
so would you say it’s PTSD because that would explain why some people deal better then others and the fact that the people you’re around has an affect on your chances of going psycho. it would also explain how some people are out right not affected buy their cyber wear.
@@sebroki4679Exactly... Its like oter disorder its not guarantee you will have it. Example Adam smasher ahs a body that looks like a Blonde Elvis he uses to fu ck women. Its like real trauma, like goin to war, experience a near death situation, or be abused has a kid... some ppl are broken by it oters dont.
Maelstrom can be easily explained as then believing they are upgrading their souls and body (as it’s basically a cult), so the disassociation that comes with cyberpsychosis doesn’t take place, as they don’t have to get used to their bodies, they already were Also we do see a few maelstrom cyberpsychos, both caused by extreme stress or interacting with the old net
Out of all the characters in Cyberpunk, V is the one with the highest limit to how much cyberwear he can put on. By the end of the game 2077 V is basically a cyborg, more metal than man and he doesn't have any symptoms.
the whole cyber psychosis being fake is heavily implied to be true in the original table top. it's implied in the og games that its more of an intentional thing put in place by Corpo to try and keep their super weapon dogs on a leash and keep high-danger threats out of their hair. it pretty much implied to be intentional safety measures and there are some examples of characters in the lore that might be immune to it because of corpo modeling. im only a 1:11 in but i notice a lack of reference to the og game given its a pretty clear consensus in the ttrpg space that its a narrative created by corpos and not backed into the game and cybernetics
Same here friend! I know people are currently voting on The Best Video Game Adaptation and Arcane/Edgerunners are the biggest nominees. Cast your vote my friend!
@@bumperjumper I still have yet to see arcane. With art I will give a full on chance where I don’t want to give a bias opinion. Trigger is a wonderful studio but there are animes I don’t like that others adore. Darling in the franxx I joke all the time it’s just a dollar store evangelion cause that’s my honest feelings on it while others find it their favorite anime. Games being translated to movies or shows has an issue on how you can handle that lore and theme to watching it. I feel adaptions on video games to shows or movies can be it’s own hybrid category that’s worthy on actually for serious discussions. This at least deserves a mention or a nod in game awards or with critics. Cause if we get more adaptations this good this is actually a really good cause this can actually invite more people to try out the franchise. Watching this anime actually made me want to go learn more of this world as well as actually going deep enough to talk about fun facts.
@@locodesert2 yeah very well said! I normally don’t encourage people to go out and vote but in this case it would make a difference; Edgerunners has raised the creative standard for anime and I want companies to see the value in crafting unique, artistic stories that sometimes are designed to be standalone series. There’s too much milking/lack of creativity going on imo
@@bumperjumper I’m planning to see arcane whenever I get time to since I heard so much good things about it and can’t wait to see more shows with love and effort put into them based on video games. Halo really did flop cause you can clearly tell the love wasn’t put in the right areas.
@@locodesert2 if I’m not mistaken the team behind the halo show admitted they hadn’t played the games; really shows how fans resonate with the passion the creators have when making content
Dam didn’t know Adam Sandler is in Cyberpunk. Is he doing a comedy set in game? And Chuck Norris too? Honestly, that should have been the main character…
The way I perceive cyberpsychosis is that it is stress which comes in different forms, then triggers when someone is suffering from things such as depression where sometimes one cannot differentiate from ally to foe, sometimes from right or wrong (too much depression turns your cyberware rogue, like the immune systems in our body killing other cells due to stress), it can also be derived from so much anger giving us violent tendencies (ln reality sometimes we want to kill the person who wronged us in our heads but our cyberware translates it and turns it into reality), lastly when we do anything that disturbs our conscience and builds up like killing too much or stealing too much just to earn hard eddies. In cyberpunk Misty kept on talking about how people in Night City is losing their spirituality, there is also the possibility that V why he/she is not turning into a cyberpsycho because in his/her journey he/she gets to be surrounded with people. This people, keeps on reminding them of what he/she can do and give, giving him/her some sense of purpose this is why in our lifepaths V as a Nomad tried to look for purpose in Night City, V as a Streetkid went to Atlanta, and V as a corpo has a life coach, each V is looking for ways to overcome stress hence the zenmaster quests because no matter where V goes, stress and insanity is just always behind them. Then we see David, who even though his humanity is high, kept on losing his spirituality this began when he lost his Mom, then later when he lost the Edgerunners whom he valued, he then lost his sense of direction. He forgot of wanting to go to the moon with Lucy because they too became distant, David wanting Lucy to talk to him and wants to know what's going on shrugs him after, almost led to them breaking up, that's how or why David turned cyberpsycho because the ones he wants to talk to the most are either dead or keeping secrets, Rebecca is there yes but he did not look at her the way he looked at Lucy as David never looked at her as a bestfriend nor a potential lover, just a fellow edgerunner. In reality we as the watchers, we also have people along our journey who sometimes thinks the world of us but neglected to see that because we know that they are always going to be there until it's too late. The way I see it, when you are in Night City your stress is bigger and higher, don't lose yourself no matter what. To quote Alan Moore “All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That's how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day.” But maybe what really saved David and V from becoming cyberpsychos is the realization of that they are at heaven's door and they have to do everything in their power to see everything through they need to do it for their friends given the time they have left.The city can try to take away your humanity but they did not let it take away their spirituality. **queue I really want to stay in your house** Edit: Thanks for the likes!!
I remember someone (I think it was Pondsmith but I'm not sure) comparing cyberpsychosis to something like roid rage, it becomes more prevalent the more cyberware a person has until they eventually snap. It is a blanket term because there's no single cause to it, just a general cyberware + stress combo. That's why I think the enviroment helps stave off the breakdown, it's the lowered stress more than anything. As for a few answers to your points: - The "Cyberpsychosis" quickhack may just be the nickname of that daemon program and have no relation to the condition, seeing as she uses it on a robot it might be an IFF scrambler of some kind. - V's resistance may not be just because of the "two minds, one body" thing. Johnny is ex-military, him having handled both the military-standard implants as well as his own slice of PTSD, paired with the Relic rewiring him into V's brain might be what helps keep them level if not entirely stable. - I don't remember if this is official info, but I have seen multiple mention that Smasher's high functionality was due to him being a diagnosed psychopath before he got cyberized. The implants didn't interfere with his mind because he didn't have that part to be interfered with in the first place. - MaxTac aren't exactly recovered. In the game you can meet with that cyberpsycho-turned-MaxTac from the OG teaser and while she is sane, she's also quite unhinged, constantly stating that she enjoys the killing and trying to coax the same admission from V. - pretty sure that the Maelstrom are described as being borderline cyberpsychos. If we're going with the roid rage analogy then it works seeing as most Maelstroms are extremely sadistic, like Royce dealing with disloyal members by throwing them into an industrial microwave.
I believe it was mentioned by a dev that V has an innately high sense of humanity, which made them extremely resistant to developing cyberpsychosis. Add on the relic, and Johnny, which helped to buffer the many physical/mental/emotional stresses V experience made it almost impossible for V to develop cyberpyschosis.
"It is a blanket term because there's no single cause to it, just a general cyberware + stress combo." I guess that could also explain Adam Smasher - his brain was probably so messed with, there's no other emotion he can ever feel anymore other than sadistic glee. Therefore, there's no stress, no worry - he just fights to kill most efficiently, and basks in the glory of a job well done afterwards. It's just a theory of mine, but I bet that, if Morgan Blackhand returned, absolutely dominated Smasher, and then toyed with him, refusing to kill him but also rubbing in his own superiority at every opportunity, Smasher would eventually snap just like any other cyberpsycho.
So as far as I've pieced together the whole night city setting is pulled from another cyberpunk universe. In that universe there's an entire network of old tech and satellites that is absolutely infested with rogue Ais. For the most part they stay in their respective systems and there is a massive firewall separating the new net from the old, but it wouldn't be interesting if there wasn't some sort of interaction. So the rogue ais occasionally chips small holes in the firewall and send out corrupted code before the firewall seals back up. That corrupted code spreads out and infects everything it can but for the most part it's just whispers and suggestions, maybe some hallucinations if you're particularly susceptible (too chromed out). Most people never even notice but those at high risk of snapping tend to lose their minds. In the other universe this aspect just allowed players a deeper avenue of exploration and danger. I would love to see it make an appearance in 2077.
While this isn't directly a theory about cyberpsychosis it is still a theory about the show. Upon rewatching the show, there is something extremly weird/confusing about the 2nd episode. THat being, Lucy herself. When her and David are in the van with the guy who wants to take David's implant and sell it off, Lucy showcases an enterily contraditory persoanlity. Lucy as we know is very reserved and introverted and keeps to herself. Everyone in the gang knows that and the show reinforces that's who Lucy is and she doesn't like taking huge risks unless necceary. However in that scene, Lucy straight up acts like Rebecca, pulling a stunt you'd expect out of her and acting exactly like her, lauphing and enjoying the sheer danger and crazyness of the situaiton. Which is the polar opposite of her character from that point forward. It feels almost like that Scene was meant to be with Rebecca, or that Lucy was directly communicating with Rebecca the whole time she was with David to lure him in to trusting her. But in either case it's a very bizzare sequence as given her characterization there's no real proper answer that 100% for why she acted like that. As it's simply not who she is.
Yes I found it really strange too and even brought it up in my Edgerunners Has Some Major Plot Holes video. You brought up the primary argument that lucy “acted” that way to lure David in. However, I don’t think that’s the case. In episode 3 when David is driving like a maniac with the stolen car, Lucy is getting a thrill out of it, proving that deep down she’s a free spirit. The truth (which people kept reminding me of in the comments) is that maines death along with her knowing David was on a path straight to death made her more reserved, fearful, and scarred
in cyberpunk 2077 theres a shard you find that says that cyberpsychosis isnt a illness but something that is given by someone like a netrunner hacks you into a cyberpsycho but in the game it seems to either be made by a AI on someone from outside the black wall (or wtv its called)
PTSD from watching ultra violent BD’s combined with using cyberware to slice and dice people. Our soldiers are carrying vivid memories of death around in their heads.
I think I remember something in the game that said “cyberphyschosis. Isn’t a real thing. It’s all improper chrome that was faulty or improperly installed that causes problems with the brain.” Meaning the more chrome you get the higher the risk of getting it, and chances that the software will mess with eachother. I think it works like data corruption or system crashes, except in a human brain. So I kind of agree with theory 5.
One thing I would to point out regarding V not getting cyberpsychosis is because of the relic, in the game it's stated that v was living off using it because his brain was heavily damaged, and even if that wasn't the case, it's also stated that the relic was rewriting his brain so it could be rewriting the cyberpsychosis effects, this by extension could be why smasher is shown to be immune. While I do believe smasher does have a extreme resilience for cyber ware, I also believe he's a construct to be a fail safe in case he goes rouge.
In the cases of David and Maine, their cyberpsychosis manifested in the pursuit of an unobtainable dream or at the intersection of conflict between 2 dreams that cannot coexist, when Sasha was able to inflict cyberpsychosis this was on constructs or engrams closer to what Adam smasher is but WAY less advanced, this wouldn't work on Adam because exactly as you mentioned in the video it seems likely that hes a high functioning cyberpsycho and the only meat left on him is a brain that never had much empathy to lose. I didn't realize before watching that max tac were previous cyberpsychos, not sure what that means for my theory but it's a really cool piece of information! Great video
To add to my first thought, this conflict of desire probably most commonly manifests as a clash of self preservation versus moral obligation to save the lives of those around you, or at least spare them; when murder is second nature and cybernetics are a vehicle to make you more capable at it this conflict will happen often and may be enough to push a choomba over the edge
The cyberpunk RED rulebook describes cyberpsychosis as: Dissociation + Psychopathic Tendencies = Cyberpsychosis or, put another way... "I'm a thing." + "Everyone else is a thing." = "Why not just kill anything that gets in my way?" Under "Effects of cyberpsychosis": "Cyberpsychosis is not necessarily always violent. Not all "cyberpsychos" are violent. However, a number of cases, particularly those who have already manifested psycho-pathological or sociopathic tendencies, will find those tendencies magnified to a dangerous extent. Specifically, their view of others as things to be used or harmed without thought or empathy increases dramatically" Essentially cyberpsychosis is just disassociation from the rest of humanity. If you keep replacing bits of yourself with cyberware and become more and more mechanical you stop seeing seeing bodies as anything other than a thing to be used and discarded/upgraded. And at that point seeing life as valuable quickly drops off too. This is why maxtac employs cyberpsychos. Their lack of empathy makes their jobs of "Stop an ongoing massacare" a lot easier to handle, and they won't have qualms about blasting cpsychos into bits. As for the cyberpsychosis hack, that's actually in the game too, and the way I always interpreted it was "Make cyberware inject angery chemicals straight into brain, causing a psychotic break. (Oh also she uses cyberpsychosis on a robot, which'd just be overriding said robot's IFF system)
Always struck me that, tabletop rules aside, the whole point is that cyber augmentations are a force multiplier, mentally as well as physically. Power corrupts, etc. Everyone has a hidden fear, a hidden desire, some dark little thing that in healthy people is restrained and largely unnoticed, but always one bad day from growing into something serious and pathological. A driving force, tamed and shackled most of the time... You bolt a load of cyber-bits to someone, amplifying strength, speed, adjusting their chemistry, and you unshackle what was already there and multiply its effects a hundred fold. Especially if the reason they adopted cyber augmentation is to foolishly feed that shackled fear/desire - it's like how you can't cure an addict by giving them what they crave. As the man once said - fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.
I agree, cyberpsychosis probably is based on the fact most people dont think they have the potential to be a monster, when in reality the only barrier to such a thing is something as insubstantial as a thought.
if u dont see yourself as human in the first place, users dont seem to struggle with cyberpsychosis. its the ones that want to retain their humanity that get messed up.
The rogue ai theory makes the most sense to me, as a group like maxtac could most likely use their own equipment and ai’s to reverse it, if any of these were true to that's prob the most likely
I wish they just said it's true. It's better that way... imagine losing the sensations you've always known and can't even look at yourself without your mind crashing because you literally cannot recognize the what's left when you killed your soul.
Cyberphyscosis is caused from essentially a loss of humanity manifesting as a dissociative disorder, we see this especially well with maine in his hallucinations and whenever Adam smasher says anything, main couldn't see people anymore stating the reaper is after him, he no longer saw people but just threats and with Adam smasher it is slightly different but the same concept where he just sees people as meat or chrome. It is possible to get Cyberphyscosis with just 1 implant or even 0 if enough trauma is experienced, every Cyberphyscosis incident in cyberpunk 2077 has a multitude of events causing the eventuality of Cyberphyscosis. I think the Cyberphyscosis quick hack doesn't actually cause Cyberphyscosis but just imitates it, alot of what people think Cyberphyscosis is - an overload of cybernetics causing manic violent episodes is actually very different from the actuallity and I believe it is a personification of what the dark future can do to the human psyche.
This makes total sense. The concept of a quick hack is to quickly create an effect on a machine or person so temporarily “imitating” cyberpsychosis could very well be the case
Isn't cyber psychosis just ptsd. It's the same symptoms almost and the only difference is that a chromed out person's mind could probably make up even more convincing hallucinations than a purely organic mind. Hence why it's harder for modern meds or traditional therapy to bring them back down. And then each time they get closer to being unable to leave the hallucinations
@@SlyNine @SlyNine I know that the actual definition of what qualifies as ptsd varies by person and by the diagnostic physician. But, at least from my experience with my grandfather from Korea. Ptsd is characterized by episodes where after expose to certain sounds or sights, smells, etc. A person who has previously experienced severe mental or physical trauma looses their ability to think rationally as they enter a state of either fear, panic, violence, confusion, or a mix and match or these and more. In which they believe that they are back in that traumatic event. I'm curious what you thought was wrong with my explanation. Do you think that that a person suddenly being back in a different time and place even if they don't have a visual hallucination. They are experiencing internal hallucinations. Internal hallucinations are events where despite no changes to what is actually heard or seen physical. The brain can supper impose a completely different reality on top of what they should see. Meaning such that a man hearing a car backfire while in olive garden is suddenly convinced he is back in Vietnam. And to continue not every ptsd has these internal hallucinations. Sometimes the extent is extreme adrenal rushes from stimuli that are similar to the trauma. These cases are often dismissed because despite the sudden activation of fight or flight and adrenal release occurring in classic Vietnam vet ptsd and in these other cases. The fact thar there isn't internal hallucinations often gets people labeled fakers as that's not real ptsd. They believe that a person suddenly entering a state of pure fear or anxiety with their adrenal system shoving their heart rate in to the 180-210 bpm range, sudden fight or flight including shaking, running away, spontaneous crying and simply crumping to the ground in cold sweat unable to even be reason with as you sit there watching them rock back and forth with a thousand yard stare. Yeah ptsd isn't any of what I put in either this or the last vomment
You just gave me an idea , remember when david went to school and used the firmware for the school lecture , and his system freaked out and messed up everyone’s else’s. The theory you have about cyberwars keeping them in an infinite loop if the parts are t constantly upgraded us closest in my opinion
I think araska could be starting some not all but some cyberpsychos and the reason for doing it is to see who has a high tolerance and who can actually control their humanity. When they find that out they will use them as a lap rat. And make more people like Adam smasher
in my point of view cyber psychosis is a mixture of disassociation, depression and stress with a little despair, an example and the beginning of the maine episode there we see that he is running something that we noticed that he makes an effort, something that with the cromo He doesn't have Also, perhaps the thought of "I am special" which is a part of the narcissist which prevents a remedy of the situation or that narcissistic aspect is part of the cyber psychoses With Adam smasher, the story is different from most of the cromos They are old ones that probably don't have much connection so we see Lucy having a hard time hacking him Which perhaps also requires little of the brain when using them In addition to having seen several deaths during the fourth corporate war which may have made him used to such thoughts (sorry for the bad grammar is because I'm Using Google translator)
The opposite could be argued I believe. People seem to go psycho when they lose all hope too so maybe adam’s desire for violence is so strong it keeps him sane(ish). I like your idea!
I think it might be the same phenomenon as when someone goes on a random killing spree in game to test out their gear: A person with powerful chrome and little to no empathy or concern for others (maybe going as far as seeing them as random npcs or background programs) would probably sometimes just go on a random killing spree. Reasons would vary from rage-fuelled revenge to desensitisation; a question of “why not?”
There is a cyberpsycho quest (regina) that some Maelstrom is summoning named Lilith and that links to another quest about the aliens, reptilians and blue eyed conspiracy theories. If you love conspiracy theory that quest line was interesting but alas it was short.
I thought 5 would turn out to be true during the game and that this would be the revelation after you finish the Cyber Psycho side-quest, but nothing of the sort happened. Edgerunners has me convinced that it's a real condition. Just to enlighten you, the Cyberpsychosis quick-hack is available in the game. It doesn't cause actual cyberpsychosis, but merely mimics it. While it's plausible that a nefarious netrunner could induce cyberpsychosis in a healthy person in hopes that it will be written off as another spontaneous incident (although I imagine there's a risk that their OS will carry traces of the quickhack in their code) this can't explain what David and Maine went through. The quick hack works instantaneously, David and Maine succumbed to their dissociations and hallucinations over an extended period of time. Rogue AIs are an interesting idea but if those were the cause wouldn't Netrunners rather than borged out mercs be the primary victims of cyber psychosis? I think Malestrom is an entire gang of high-functioning cyber psychos. Adam Smasher also perfectly fits that description. Alternatively, it might be the case that while low-empathy makes a person vulnerable to it, being a complete psychopath to begin with (which by all reports Adam was even before he got chromed) renders a person immune since they don't have the emotions that would lead to the stress that's associated with cyberpsychosis. This is the first I'm hearing of Max Tac being x-cyberpsychos. That sounds like a plot hole, unless this is secret information not known to the general public. If it's a secret and cyberpsychosis can be cured then that would make sense. If it's common knowledge then no one would buy the claim that it's incurable. It also seems implausible that Max Tac would be able to sustain its numbers since their MO is to slaughter any Cyberpsycho they encounter. I think Regina specifically mentions that they pretty much never leave cyberpsychos alive. When do they recruit exactly?
It would make sense that there is some sort of genetic component to cyberpsychosis. David's father is never revealed and if the story of edge runners continues into a season 2 then there could possibly be a reveal of how David is "special". Genetic modification could be the key to both the control and the full utilization of cyberware. MaxTac could in fact be full of cyberpsychos who have been reprogrammed and genetically modified. David's father would probably be smart, just like his son and could have been involved with the genetic research.
President Arasaka manipulated AI to impregnate Gloria with upgrades to give birth to the one who is built different. This would give balance of the Internet more to the Corpos.
Good video, couple things to add tough. First, the cyberpsychosis hack Sasha uses is available for players to use on cyberpunk 2077 too, and it's description states the induction of a temporary cyberpsychosis-like effect, so no, it's not cyberpsychosis itself, it's just the best name they found for the quickhack Second, the thing about MaxTac agents being cyberpsychos... That is read from a shard, which could have been written by anyone, and the way it is written indicates the writter has negligible credibility. I'm not saying it is wrong, but that source ain't proof. As for why aren't all the maelstrom members cyberpsychos... Idk, go figure, I don't like them.
nah bro read into melissa rory and how she was brought into maxtac after a cyberpsycho episode and you can even find research about her in the ncpd lab during river wards side quest
Cyberpsychosis is indeed a real thing in the Cyberpunk universe. Cyberpunk 2020 and Cyberpunk Red, both definitive sources of lore, explain that cyberpsychosis is a real psychological issue describing dissociation caused by expanding the body's capability beyond what is human.
I read somewhere that for someone to become a cyberpsychopath, the person needs to have gone through some traumas, the first cyberpsychopath we saw in the anime is an ex-military man, that is, yes, he probably must have gone through several traumas, David witnessed an exchange of gunshots and shortly after that he was left to die along with his mother by the trauma team and after a few days she died, now V, went through some horrible things like (small spoiler alert) watching his friend jackie die right in front of him this being horrible it might not bring a trauma to someone like V but this event probably marked the character's life but not to the point of him becoming a cyberpsychopath
If I remember correctly, in the old 2020 book there was a "cure" for cyberpsychosis and it was simple therapy. It allowed you to get a certain amount of humanity points back in which the player would most likely just keep adding more and more cyber onto themselves. This allowed for two things, a constant threat and the ability to go full borg because lets face it, everyone wants that. I never liked this rule personally, it seemed to reduce the threat of psychosis down to a few measly thousand dollars. By the time a player needed therapy from all the cyber, they had enough money to pay for thousands of hours of therapy. You could also get vat grown limbs to reintroduce your body too, often your own limbs on freeze which gave you a certain amount of humanity back, no player I ever played with took this route.
Although cyberpsychosis existed in the table top game as an means of stopping people from getting too op, I believe that CDPR partially uses the illness as an reference to how in games like GTA the player character suddenly goes beserk and kills dozens of people before escaping or dying. It’s just that this situation that players finds themselves doing is now an piece of the narrative based on how bystanders would naturally react from someone doing this. In fact, the BD that’s used at the beginning of the show with the cyberpsycho would make logical sense if you imagined an player was behind the psycho’s actions and behavior. (Not to say that all cyberpsycho incidents are caused by an players influence, but if you want to flesh out an theory on it so be it) Additionally, V isn’t immune to going cyberpsycho - it’s just that we haven’t decided to go on an killing spree yet. Since maxtac will call us an cyberpsycho if we do it for long enough.
V is immune because hes technically dead and its two programs in his skull, not one. the pain he feels is from the active nanomachines rewriting his DNA on a genetic level to match the engram so they wont experience psychosis within a foreign body when the process is complete. the engram makes his body compatible.
I personally think that cyber psychosis requires some sort of previous trauma or mental illness. Cyberware can amplify it, but there needs to be something else.
@@bumperjumper it was when u talked about how the cyberware could actually potentially be the cause why ppl are going cyberphyco but in the anime David was cyberphyco not because of the gear,but because Faraday got to him to put on the Cyber skeleton and "save his crew" but what Faraday wanted was for him to be victim for him to loose his sanity and become cyberphyco.
It should be considered that cyberpsychosis doesn't exist in a vacuum and its nature as a dissociative disorder. For instance, Maelstrom might not be as susceptible to it because their philosophy means they associate more with the chrome than their flesh, so there's no inner struggle to rationalize this. "Humanity" is the stat that's fighting this battle, and so suppresses symptoms so long as it's winning out, but the battle itself probably is the cyberpsychosis itself. It can also layer on top of other mental ailments, like PTSD, so there might be cyberpsychos in more peaceful settings or less trauma that don't express the same obvious violent tendencies because their cyberpsychosis isn't mixing with violence-induced trauma. Could explain why corpos can use therapy to help prevent it. Adam Smasher is probably a mix of the two. He doesn't have attachment to his flesh or humanity, so there's no dissociation, and there's no PTSD because he's a psychopath already, thus the symptoms aren't exagerated by trauma.
1: I'd argue that Sasha makes a poor example. The root word of psychosis is psyche, meaning "of the mind". Robots do not have brains, therefore, they cannot logically be afflicted by Cyberpsychosis. Etymology is important. A more accurate term for this situation would just be malfunctioning or reprogramming. 2: Yes, all of MaxTac _were_ Cyberpsychos at one point. Whether or not they still are is anyone's guess. A handful of sources have mentioned that rehabilitation is possible, just highly unlikely in most cases. Personally, I like to think that MaxTac are the rare few who were actually rehabilitated successfully. Their violent tendencies are still present, but actually kept in check. So now they have a means of utilizing those tendencies for good. 3: Roughly 2/3s of the Maelstrom gang _is_ comprised of Cyberpsychos. This is well-known. 4: This is more of a platitude than a satisfying answer, but Cyberpsychosis isn't an issue for V because CDPR dropped the ball as hard as they possibly could've by failing to implement the mechanic in any meaningful way. This is also why David's character arc is a million times better and more relatable than V's. 5: This actually _is_ confirmed. Think of Arasaka like a bad mechanic. Sure, they'll fix your car, but they'll also screw something up on purpose to make sure you keep coming back as a return customer. (Capitalism in a nutshell for ya.) The TTRPG also states that Cyberware varies drastically in terms of quality. Another big factor is the skill of the Ripperdoc who's actually installing your Cyberware. Long story short, you usually get what you pay for. It's canon that shoddy / buggy / inferior / obsolete / discontinued / recalled Cyberware exists, and that there are Ripperdocs who just flat-out suck at doing their jobs properly. So it's reasonable to assume that Cyberpsychosis could also be a side-effect caused by faulty Cyberware, or by having your Cyberware installed by someone who lacks the expertise and professionalism to actually do it right.
These are all great points! I’d like to add that quickhacking cyberpsychosis is also possible in the game against machines AND humans, but it takes a slightly different meaning with machines as you’re suggesting I like your way of thinking and agree!
The Untold Truth About David’s Death: ua-cam.com/video/419lC7yc4_E/v-deo.html
If you ask me cyberpsychosis is real but not in the way that arasaka or any of the corporations say so. Basically from my perspective there's good explanation for why cyber-psychosis would actually be a genuine medical condition namely being that the Chrome is definitely going to end up having the unintentional side effect metal leaching its way into your brain. More specifically it's going to be heavy metals entering your brain which is a known factor to cause psychosis in the real world and given the type of people who Chrome themselves up are typically going to be in violent lines of work and are typically going to have more violent tendencies because of said work it's not surprising that as they start to give in to their psychosis, they start to perhaps become more violent and that trait of varies becomes more exaggerated.
No I'm certain that keeping a healthy mental state is definitely going to be a big thing in helping ensure you maintain your hold on reality so it won't be perfect as again, too much Chrome is going to mean that there's going to be a lot more heavy metal entering your brain meaning no matter what there's no one who's going to be necessarily immune to cyberpsychosis and less of course they have one specific thing which is something that V / Johnny actually has which I wouldn't be surprised if Adam Smasher actually also has which is to say, they don't have organic brains but rather have essentially nanites supercomputers that function identically to how neurons would function but without the drawbacks of being organic cells that can't regenerate and can take damage that will be permanent from the things as simple as heavy metal deposits in the brain. In other words the fact that they have literally no organic means they have nothing that could cause psychosis aside from their own mental strain and their own thought process fucking up.
That's why in cyberpunk 2077, the "Save Your Soul program" was so undeniably completely and utterly important to basically all corporations. It's the one thing that cannot only mean that the fat cats at the top get to live forever as they no longer have any organic body parts that will age and eventually die but on top of that, it also means they can have fully borged out soldiers who won't succumb to cyberpsychosis and it could also theoretically mean they could find the perfect soldier who will listen to them no matter what and clone that Consciousness over and over again to have a perfect Army of Clone borg Troopers
You have information about the TTRPG Cyberpunk?
lol adam smasher doesnt have an organic brain
3:41 Adam Sandler, lmao
I do remember reading/hearing somewhere that Adam Smasher actually is a cyberpsycho. We just can't tell because Adam Smasher was such a psychopath when he was "sane" that not much changed when he went cyberpsycho. The only reason he holds back is because Arasaka provides much more interesting situations for him to kill stuff than it would be for him to just mow down random citizens. Even in the show, a lot of his dialogue alludes to the idea that he kills because he finds it fun and not because it pays well or because of loyalty to Arasaka. Basically, he's a highly functional cyberpsycho.
I heard that Same thing
Yeah the thought was while other's try to fight frm becoming a cyberpsycho he just embrace & merged wth it
Which is the exact opposite of how it work in the RPG. So yeah I think it is just a rumor, and the best explanation is just some are built different, and I guess smaher has high empathy. Damn that's weird to say that they probably should named the mechanic something else.
Honestly I thought this was like already a well known thing. Do people really believe Smasher was already not gone from the start ?
@@benjaminparent4115 He's a high functioning psychopath. if you read into the fluff of cyberpsychosis in the book, it's a dissociative disorder that turns everything into an object, including the self, and can , but not always, either develop or uninhibit pathological tendencies. how that plays out depends on the character the player or game master plays. and not all Cybeshychos are "violent" but it can get to a point where they lose their original sense of self, which in the game is in the form of the player relinquishing their character to the GM. One of the expressions of having low humanity in the RPG is being a psychopath to begin with. I'd also call the scene of Lucy hacking into Smasher, unlike everyone else, which retains a digital persona of themselves, he takes the form of a monster. it's evidence that at least suggests that he no longer perceives himself as human.
Adam Sandler...
Also Ponsmith confirmed that Johnny is protecting V's mind from Cyberpsycosis.
Hahah Adam Sandler
I guess that mistake is logical, Adam Sandler is the OG Adam, haha
@@YisraelPrince honestly, took me a minute to figure out what is wrong.
The relic is too.
well i mean we technically have two consciousnesses for the psychosis to get through
Therapist: Cyberpsychosis isn’t real, it can’t hurt you
Cyberpsychosis: *jiggly wiggly eyes*
LOL why did I picture this so perfectly?
i can do it with only one cyberware... and my cyberware is a small sensor that check my glucose levels on blood, but i did those jiggly wiggly with my eyes even before those chrome choom
The fact that i have that talent
@@viniciusschadeck4992 I have an insulin pump myself, always gonna need insulin like david needs immunoblockers 😭😭😭
@@Unfortunate_developement i know your issue, but i not had insulin pump, i live in brazil those stuff here worth a rich car, soo, better keep injections and have money to bought insuline LOL, those sensors i got is already really spensive, my cousin wife has diabetes type 1 about 10 years now, she not use it, and my cousin earn about 4k dolls montly, and she earn about 1k+ dols montly, i earn less, but i not have children to take care, soo, i can afford using a huge portion of my income, but is soo easier live with those glucose sensors that i never want step back, no matters how expensive it become now with Lula increasing health costs in taxes a lot, i mean he double the value of a taxe, and increase others the final price in a single montly was almost doubled on almost all meds here, we are fucked now... Anyway, i can keep for now at least
For V, there's an in-universe answer that's feels like a cop out. It was already stated that from the moment V put the Artifact in his head it started slowly rewriting their entire body to make it more suitable for the second ego (in this case Silverhand). This process was vastly accelerated when V took a lead aspirin. At the end of the game it's revealed that in 6 months time "V" will "die" and be "replaced" by Silverhand. This is more or less an indirect affirmation that the last stage of the intended process is the overwriting of the original host's ego. That last bit is the most important part; though fixing the hole in V's head was confirmation enough imo. If the Artifact is spending *months* constantly rewiring the very tissue of the host's brain to the point that the most minute of signal transfers between synapses can be changed to make it more suitable for the new host, it then stands to reason that the Artifact would be constantly overwriting any abnormalities created in the perpetual meantime. Considering that cyberpsychosis is treated as a brain deformation, it would mean the Artifact is keeping that from setting in as well; after all, a psycho's brain wouldn't be suitable for the new host if it was still psycho when the new host took over now would it? This means V's immunity to going cyberpsycho is based on their ego being slowly overwritten over half a year. This basically means V can Borg out as much as they want and Silverhand eventually benefits from this body without any of the repercussions.
This!!!
Probably the smartest comment ive read here fr
V just dies in the 6 months sliverhand ain't in he's head no more after arasoka tower
If you let Johnny take over on the final raid on Arasaka tower he points out that he knows a few tricks with the cyberware V already installed, which is why netrunning (as an example) still works when playing as Johnny in the final battle (I think)
So you can augment your body as much as you like if you have an Artifact with a copy of your mind in it? Since it will try to make it as sootable for this new mind as possible, which is you, that means you will never go cyberpsycho. Howevet, you will eventually get replaced by a past version of yourself, so you need a way to constantly update the mind on the Artifact to never lose your memories and to also keep the Artifact in an eternal cycle of alteration.
I've always figured that cyberpsychosis is completely dependent on the mental state of the user. That was the vibe I got with David, since he was chroming more and more, before finally snapping with the Cyber-Skeleton. But the reason for him snapping wasn't just the cyberware, it was all the insane psycho shit in his life that led him to that point, on top of his girlfriend being captured by the same Arasaka scumbag that screwed over Maine. David is the last person that should've gotten chromed, but he did so anyway because it was the only thing he felt gave him the strength to fight and protect the things he cared about most.
Despite his financial living conditions he had a very good life. A loving mother, a mentor, a possible career path, and a lover. These were slowly stripped away and he began to cope with it by increasing his cyberware.
Mike podsmith actually commented on cyberpsychosis on how it's similar to steroid addiction/roid rage. With a good support network behind the person they can stave off the effects of steroid addiction. The worse someone becomes mentally the less protection they have from the rage and begin to lash out. The only difference is irl it's a man with more muscles while in cyberpunk it's a literal arm rocket launcher.
This is why cyberpsychosis can be "cured". You just need someone to monitor and administer the proper treatments regularly to prevent an outburst.
This is how I thought about it too. It explains Adam smasher too.
To me is seems like a chicken and egg scenario. Do less psychology stable people tend to chrome themselves more to cope with the mental illness caused by the society they live in such that when they eventually go mad they are a literal killing machine?
Or does augmenting yourself cause you to become mentally ill leading you to want to augment yourself more and more such that when you are more augmented you are more mentally ill and reach a point where you are killing machine?
So its sounds like normal psychosis pushed to an extreme with the cuberware, but with a much higher potential for violence due to only affecting walking talking super weapond
It’s heavily implied even in the game too.
The real state of Cyberpsychosis is basically: Mental Condition + chrome.
David pretty much fucked that and became that, V had a good mental condition, the relic, a partner and resilience.
I honestly feel that Cyberpsychosis is a blanket term used for people who develop mental issues as a result of a combination both emotional trauma and the mental load of excessive cyberware use. It is also used by corps to conveniently take out problematic individuals without raising too much suspicion.
It also allows corporations and politicians to frame Cyberpsychosis as an individual failure, akin to how nowadays they treat issues such as drug addiction or homelessness. The affected person is at fault for chroming themselves up carelessly and pushing themselves into becoming murderous killing machines. This way, they don't have to acknowledge that probably the root cause for cyberpsychosis is the very economically and psychologically unstable environment which the Megacorporations created, in which even most people who managed to climb up the corporate ladder have to constantly face the risk of losing everything on a whim.
In modern speak: excited delerium.
Pretty sure that one of the writers confirmed this somewhere, either case I agree
@@The_KingDogemike pondsmith himself confirmed it in response to a tweet similar to the original comment with and I’m paraphrasing here “Took y’all 30 years, but yah finally figured it out.”
How do you explain maxtech then?
On the subject of V's cyberpsychosis.
The story of Cyberpunk 2077 takes place over a relatively short period of time and by what we've been shown it takes some time for cyberpsychosis to manifest in violent outbursts.
However if we talk about slightly breaking the fourth wall, the player, depending on their playstyle, might be the manifestation of V's cyberpsychosis, as they make V run around Night City and indulge in slaughtering everyone that doesn't get them a bounty on their head.
Love this. the idea that we're the cyberpsycho in Vs head is next-level storytelling
@@bumperjumper at least it would be if this was explicitly implied in the game
I always felt his cyberpsychosis manifested as Johnny Silverhand. Yeah he had the shard rewriting his brain, but him seeing Johnny and having conversations with him in the real world was V's own mind going crazy and attempting to make sense of what was happening to him.
This theory, this scares me.
@@jaanzi4347 I see you posted this two weeks ago. It's odd that you'd say this when Phantom Liberty brings new information that debunks this theory.
Songbird, a character in the DLC, is able to hack your Relic - which allows her to not only see, but speak to Johnny, and "mute" him, thus preventing him from speaking to you while she has some one on one with you. Also, you can show pictures of the tarot murals to Vik.
So Johnny is "real". V's perception of him certainly exists - it's just a byproduct of the Relic.
3:38 I now imagine adam sandler rampaging through a cyberpunk city
I imagine cyberpsychosis to be similar to phantom pains, because the body knows that something is wrong but cannot do something to act against it so I manifests onto the mind, which is then amplified by the strain the implants put on the nervous system
I assumed it was due to the body to brain ratio getting funky as the individual's size grows the brain can't keep up with it and it starts disassociating in order to allocate resources to process the new information
That would explain why most people who suffer from cyberpsychosis usually start to develop it as they add mechanical bodymass and women who focus on more tech related gadgets as opposed to strength one's aren't as likely to get it
@airplanes_aren.t_real no that wouldn't be the case because the brain (while being a piece of shit) would be able to tolerate a bulk in nervous tissue as that's what body builders deal with and implants do require X in terms of physiology to be usable, course forcing it would cause that but david did bulk up
Why else would you see nature all around you during those breaks. The mind wants to return to nature, more naturally a green environment with leaves and trees.
I think that cyberpsychosis is, in the context of the world and not as a mechanic in the TTRPG, a scapegoat term used to avoid getting help to people suffering from mental illness. Think about it, just about every single time you come across a mentally ill person in 2077, the term "cyberpsychosis" is used, and even when you come across someone who isn't to the point of cyberpsychosis (thinking of the gig where you meet a guy with PTSD) the term may still come to mind. There is also MaxTac, who seems to be comprised of former cyberpsychos, as shown by the intro of 2077, but this is never directly addressed by ANYONE. Isn't that weird? That these psychotic people, supposedly beyond being helped, comprise the most dangerous defense force in the city? There's also the matter of Maelstrom, who are so packed with cybernetics that they are referred to as "borgs," with many of them seeming to show signs of cyberpsychosis, mainly lack of empathy, and they apparently aren't a threat. Cyberpsychosis is not a specific condition or illness, but merely a term for those who just can't take it anymore and break due to a variety of mental illnesses.
Yeah it’s awful to think the reason people aren’t getting help is because of a cover-up. Love this!
I will point out that you can find the lady in the cocktail dress from the first trailer for 2077 in the game as a MaxTac officer.
Cyberpycosis is not used or everyone. It's used in particular who've gotten to much chrome, had a very traumatic experience in the past, and haven't been able to take meds. Most Cyberppycos have been either people have had been forced to have chrome installed, was an ex military, or just some gonk who got to chromed up. It's used for everyone and hasn't been stated be use for everyone. It's a unique mental instability to those who've installed chrome with extra capabilities out side the norm.
Didn’t the CyberPsychos In Cyberpunk 2077 have mental trauma like PTSD and just drug use I think one CyberPsycho mission had a drug called Glitter?
@@redgamemaster Melissa Rory, from the teaser trailer. If you got the right perks and origin V will ask about her Mantis Blades which caused neural issues.
Melissa responds by saying that she keeps them to remind her about her psychotic break in which she killed 15 people in the teaser. She also off-hand states that she loves killing.
MaxTac is as crazy if not crazier than the Cyberpsychos they sent to kill.
I feel like cyberpsychosis is a system overload with psychological hallucinations from depression, that's probably what is causing the screens we see when they enter that state. For example like what we see with maine when we see that he is in a desert surrounding, we know that part of his depression is caused by him feeling the need to always be better no matter the cost. How he fears to be a weaker form of himself, we also know what having a ton of chrome installed can cause as well. The implants are probably responding to the brain signals therefore projecting through the optical ware what we see. Another example is with David when he enters cyberpsychosis, He mentions about being on the top of arasaka like his mother wanted him to be before the accident.
Yeah cyberpsychosis is often portrayed with people’s innermost desires/fears which makes it even more real and scary. I could definitely see it as a system overload tied in with depression
That is pretty much what it is. People who are already unstable who don chrome are more likely to fall victim to Cyberspychosis.
@@FatalFist exactly!
I think it also has something to do with the central nervous system. There are old stories from early 20th century of a guy who after getting a steel rod through a part of his frontal lobe suffered a complete personality shift. Chippin in too much chrome makes the brain deal with a lot of OS handshaking. Literally links that are no longer the same, or become more complicated. The brain could start malfunctioning and sending the wrong signals in the wrong places, thus starting a process thatcan lead to cyberpsychosis. In-world, cyberpsychosis therapy is a thing, for all the good it can or can't do. If it wasn't, maxtac wouldn't be safe to be around. Then there's dialing back the chrome, literally getting meat back. I'm probably rambling 😮💨😮💨
@@alexhulea2735 I don't think they "get meat back" so to speak but rather lessen the load of their cybernetics. It's noted in universe that low-quality and exotic functioning cyberware (Mantas blades, arm cannons, having your lower body removed and adhered into an experimental battle suit holding firepower capable of leveling half a city, etc.) will drastically increase your chances of developing cyberpsychosis. Dialing all that back, getting decent: low-tech cyberware replacements and pursuing aggressive therapy to deal with the underlying problems is likely what actually happens.
It is worth mentioning that in the original Tabletop game that inspired the videogame and later the anime, Cyberpsychosis was a gameplay element introduced as a buffer so that Player Characters (PCs) didn´t got too OP by simply installing all the cyberware they could get their hands on without any drawbacks. So, in a way, is basically a story element that acts as a nerf for another:
Basically, every time you would install a piece of cyberware in your body, on top of having to deal with acquiring said equipment in the first place and the monetary costs of installations, you would also have to sustain a variable cost of "Humanity Points" loss, a stat not unlike STR or DEX in any roleplaying game, one that couldn´t be replenished except by removing said implants and neither could be increased with level.
In other words, the more cyberware you would install, the less your “empathy”, your humanity stat, would be, and would force you to put the character at a bigger risk of going berserk against everyone in sight, your friends included, acting as a necessary drawback so that cyberware didn´t became too OP, forcing players to play around it, and decide whenever their inherent advantages were worth the risk or not, so that implants would not turn into a crutch to easily archive victory and forcing them to choose carefully which implants they would, or would not, put in their bodies.
It’s also worth noting that there were other futuristic options for increasing the stats of your PCs, some of them including more "natural", like bio-augmentation, that didn´t had that penalty... mostly because, in the setting, bio-augmentation is something very difficult to obtain. Apparently, you cannot get it anywhere outside of Europe (where, fun fact, they actually disapprove of cybernetics), and it´s so costly, even corpos cannot easily afford it. So, you wouldn´t suffer from loss of "Humanity" but the drawback was that the chances of obtaining some were very slim...
So, in all about, even thought there are many explanation and theory, the truth is, it was something put there just to force players to not rely too much on cybernetics
True, I imagine there was a meeting where the devs for 2077, mike pondsmith, and the creators of Edgerunners had to hash out what was canon or not 😂
This is super interesting, thanks for this! I didn’t know Europe disapproved of the use of cyberware!
In red you can get it by eating babies :3
@@ShuTheIdiot I needed this factoid
So... European version of Gorrilla arms are literally arms of a Gorilla?
@Lex Bright Raven not only, if i'm not wrong, in Europe all cyberware Is Medical-Grade and is installed in a hospital, so It could also be that in NC cyberware Is trash and installed in a non-safe environment, which leads to rejection syndrome
Edit: spelling
3:41 "It could be that Adam Sandler is an engram" - what a terrifying thought. I wouldn't want Adam Sandler in my head either!
That would be a fun mod. Replace Johnny with Sandler, just use a bunch of random lines when he speaks. It could be fun to see how much sense you could have it make.
We see David slowly grow more overconfident and distant as he gets more cyberware. In his new body he claims to be "special" and "different", and he doesn't talk to Lucy as much. It's very likely to be some sort of effect of depression/anxiety combined with the placebo of cybernetics turning you crazy. The more people warn David, the more angry, cold and ruthless he became. He believed he lost his humanity and crumbled under pressure. Speaking from experience depression can make you very aggressive, and it'll make you see yourself as a monster.
But humanity and empathy as stats may be literal, as David yells about killing Faraday his whole body shakes, and when he sees Lucy, someone he loves and is loved by he comes to his senses. And hence why women are less likely to get it, they tend to be more loving and empathetic.
As someone who suffers from PTSD, Cyberpsychosis is something that can be triggered. BUT the only difference is the duration of this Cyberpsychosis. Like PTSD, things as simple as a loud sound or memories can trigger someone to act rashly or in an act of violence towards anyone indiscriminately. Cyberpsychosis is also tends to happen with someone wearing outdated cybernetics that haven't been enhanced or lost support. baloperidol is a drug used to treat cyberpsychosis as well as long periods of time strapped down by corpos while experiencing a brain dance with a cyberpsychologist. The quick hack of Cyberpsychosis is an attack on the sensors for AI to redirect threat protocol. To humans? It's more of a overload on the neural network software compared to true Cyberpsychosis that is directly caused by the victim themselves.
I faced alot of the same feelings when I lost a loved one was engaged to a while back. She lost her life in a car accident while I was at work. I dropped everything at my job to be with her, rushing there, putting my life on the line and couldn't make up my mind under all the stress of getting to the hospital. Its that adrenaline that I feel most Cyberpsychos feel when they lost it. That mind breaking stress and anger of things breaking apart around them. So much being taken away to a point that you don't care whose in front of you. Surely enough she did die before I got there. She died merely 20 minutes before I even got an answer of where she was, which room she was in. Her hand was still warm when I got there and I couldn't bare to leave her side. Nurses and doctors alike tried comforting me but I shoved it all away, wanting her to wake up, wanting her not to leave me alone again. But surely enough I couldn't let her go, even deceived myself thinking she was just sleeping, that this was all just some joke and she would just wake up and call me a wussy. I tried shaking her, lifting her up, trying to get her to lean up but nothing worked. I had to accept that she had just died.I hated everyone in the room. All that modern technology, all those greedy little corporations that saved so many couldn't save her. All the medicine and large amounts of money spent on these bastards becoming doctors and they couldn't bring her back. I wanted to go where she had gone and I wanted to express my anger for the world all at once. The one thing keeping me together, make me believe that this world was worth living in just died mere moments and I'm haunted by the fact that she may have been looking for me before she passed. So here I am, wanting to die with her, not wanting to say goodbye, these emotions not leaving me and not a single soul in the room could reach me. I could only remember so much however, I was arrested and put into a rehab where I made several attempts to take my own life, banging my head against the wall, screaming her name in tears as I knew I would never see her again. Dying wasnt a fear anymore. It took months for me to get my head back together but even up to this very day, I would still do anything to see her smile or hear her voice again. Mentioning her name just strikes so much of that feeling of anguish.
I guess losing that supportive environment would cause it greatly. So much anxiety and pain all at once and then having cybernetic implants that react upon your neural software? Once your humanity is thrown out of the window with no one to turn to? Not believing something isn't your fault? being the reason a loved one perished? Seeing someone you truly care for die or move on without you? When the world betrays you? When you resort to drugs and alcohol to distract the mind, never getting the true help you need? Its that emotion that becomes the dangerous ball of fire we truly call Cyberpsychosis and in Night City? Getting help for that doesn't come cheap or at all.
Mike Pondsmith is a genius. This is exactly what is believed even in reality. People who believe that PTSD isn't real exists just as those who believe Cyberpsychosis isn't real until it happens near them...Then MaxTac is called out to take care of them.They aren't looked at as people anymore but monsters hellbent of creating chaos and destroying lives until they are taken out.
Wow man this is super deep, thanks for sharing. Your perspective is super important; understanding how people view those with ptsd and how sometimes the victims are viewed as the victimizers. Terribly sorry for your loss
@@bumperjumper It's a truth that must be spoken. Night City is filled with people who are trying to live their lives. The use of cybernetics is mandatory for some kind of assurance of survival. Not to mention that Edgerunners are people willing to die to rise to the top or reach their goals. Edgerunners are people who do what that can to survive even if it means killing, stealing and selling illegal goods. Seeing the chaos is one thing. Losing those that you have an emotional attachment to is another. We've watched people who had emotional attachment to people go down faster than those in Maelstrom. Maelstrom is filled with killers,psychos and freaks that are already hell bent. Why aren't they majorly the ones who are cyberpsychos? They sedate their emotional pain through drugs and alcohol, working like a wolf pack, submitting to the alpha or killed off.
Most Cyberpsychos that have been come across are Ex-military soldiers, current soldiers, victims of Maelstrom torture (such as overloading someone with cybernetics), people victim to testing the exoskeleton prototypes and people seemingly betrayed by people that loved them.
@@Zyphernetic great stuff; I’ve heard from multiple people the idea that maelstrom uses substances and even music to keep cyberpsychosis at bay. It’s sad to think people exposing themselves to potential cyberpsychosis feels somewhat mandatory to protect themselves or “keep up.”
Jesus, brother. Fight the good fight. I hope your days and Holliday season get easier. Thank you for falling down that rabbit hole to type this out and share your story.
If you feel the need to vent some shit off of your chest to an unbiased stranger, click my bubble and shoot me an email. I've been in a similar situation, and I don't need to ask questions. I know advice is best asked for and not offered.
I initially thought cyberpsychosis was a buzzword corporations were using to spin narratives around and dispatch undesirables under the excuse of "chrome drove them crazy and dangerous", while in reality they were people having breakdowns and crisis that were only seen and talked about because they were armed or someone with influence needed them gone. As if cyberpsychosis didn't exist because it wasn't outright cause by implants, but the conditions of those who went after that many implants. You convinced me I got it backwards, I now consider it the result of an existing thing complicated by implants, that got coopted by corporations into the concept I assumed was entirely fabricated where anyone with just too many implants could develop.
My thought are the tabletop gameplay mechanics are abstractions over a range of factors.
Immunosupressors messing with your head, bad implants, body dysphoria from modding yourself, PTSD from the hard life that forces them to mod themselves... All come together to make a person snap. And it gets labeled 'cyberpsychosis', but it's more another symptom than a disorder.
With this in mind, the stat requirements and lack of dramatic physical changes in the game actually go some way to explain why V is not affected. They never mod themselves in a way their body can't take and they never change their body plan in such a way that they don't see their body as them.
David and Maine both when they hallucinate see themselves unmodded, suggesting they never saw the changed appearance from modding as part of their mental image of themselves.
V in contrast has a very strong emotional view of their body as theirs and not just a tool, as we see throughout the game, and only dissociates from the chip.
They also have a lot of support from characters like Vic, Misty and the various people they meet and even are shown to be friendly with lots of the people they share their flat block with which helps with the mental toll their lifestyle takes on them. The closest they come to breaking is after the Arasoka heist, and you can easily imagine a world where lacking that support structure they broke completely and went full cyberpsycho.
(Malestrom on the otherhand are basically all cyberpsychos, their gang structure just glorifies it and provides an outlet)
I have a feeling that, barring directed manipulation, it really could just be trauma. With the amount of violence, tyranny, and debauchery that Night City is numb to, and being in a state, "fight or flight," it just gets easier and easier to pick fight.
I'll be honest, I've never believed it was a real thing. Admittedly, the anime made me doubt this a lot, but think about the people we see affected. David experienced deaths, massive changes to his life, and untold pressure. And worse yet, Lucy was actively in danger, which I can only imagine was making it worse. Hence why when he does get her back, he has that terminal lucidity.
But there's countless other examples. Maine had to deal with leading the crew and the feeling of being "on top" and good enough.
There are missions in 2077 where you find veterans who are denied PTSD meds, who stop going to therapy. Addicts going berserk trying to get a fix. Hell, you take down a man who was pretty much going through the plot of Taken, trying to get his daughter back.
I think it's not about cyberware amplifying feelings, though. People, to some degree, experience all this in our world. Cyberware empowers these people to lash out, because that's how some people cope. Or it empowers them to take action against what's causing them so much stress, and they get lumped together in the news.
On people like V, it's really more about mindset. I don't want to say "they can handle it", but it is the case that when things go bad, they have coping mechanisms other than lashing out. I also would say, V has a goal. They're trying to live. I'm sure if they did have no hope, there'd be some sort of final blaze of glory. I don't know, say... Storming Arasaka HQ with a bunch of mercs or nomads?
V, to a degree, is a cyberpsycho. They're leaving a trail of violence in their wake pursuing a goal like many others. Think about David. His body wasn't taking well to the implants, sure, but he was doing at least alright up until a massive load of stress hit him. Lucy getting taken, Kiwi's betrayal, the millitech ambush. But until then, he was at least there, he could hold conversations. So could Maine, until the mission went sideways. And that guy going after his daughter Taken-style, only went "psycho" killing the gangsters that took her. What really makes V different? Hell, what makes Smasher different?
They all have targets. People they can focus on. And sure, it's still a psychotic break. That's why Maine went into that semi non-responsive state. Why David was so out of it until he got Lucy back. But I mentioned terminal lucidity before, a term used in regards to dementia. Where before death, the subject is sometimes fully aware, despite the deteriorating mental state they've been in for months or years at that point.
But that's why Regina's getting V to take psychos in alive, how MaxTac recruits the ones that are responsive to therapy. But not everyone is! Some people refuse treatment, some people are genuinely fried by cyberware and substance abuse. But they can be saved. At least, it's worth trying. Some can be.
Really, Maelstrom's in that same vein. They act out violently, but more importantly maim themselves in, to some degree, a way of externalizing their inner anguish. And, sure. There's at least some that are doing it to look cool with their buds. But I do believe, if you were fed up flipping burgers and getting stepped on regardless, and you see these borged out freaks just doing what they want, taking what they want? You'd likely at least be tempted. And the sorts of people that would turn to a group like the maelstrom are the same sorts that would chip themselves up alone, just to be taken seriously. That's why David got the sandevistan put in, after all!
And when you have that power, it's easy to disconnect from other people. That's why so many murders are shootings. You're much more able to disconnect. If your hands are metal, sensations alien and dulled, would you even feel the crack of somebody's skull, would you realize you were going too far? And that's just with something like gorilla arms. Carrying a firearm in real life already causes people to act much more aggressively, but now give that same person a military grade explosive cannon in their arm, the ability to move multitudes of times faster than other people, armor plating, chips that turn down their pain receptors. There's implants that reward people for killing! And sure, that one you can blame that last one of gameplay mechanics for 2077, but I digress.
Society in 2077 glorifies violence, glorifies people like Johnny Silverhand who stood up to injustice, sells military grade ordinance on practically every street, yet people are confused on why there's more people acting out against a fundamentally dysfunctional society.
That's just my 3AM interpretation, though-
TL:DR, cyberpsychosis is just a real life phenomenon highlighted by irresponsible capitalism and increased stress.
Love this!!
There is canon truth to this theory, but there’s also no denying that there’s a physical and mental strain caused by large amounts of cyberware either. When David put on the Cyber Skeleton, he needed repeat boluses of anti-psychotics just to form sentences coherently and see the world as it was. He’d be brought back to reality for a few minutes, then break again, and not because of a particular event, but simply because the antipsychotics could not combat the strain from his cyberware. We see massive amounts of medicine being dumped into his central circulation (presumably.)
We also know that having more bodymass allows people to handle mental symptoms better, lending credence to the idea that cyber psychosis has a partially physical origin. This makes sense; The brain is a part of the body. Cyberware forms new connections and pathways within the body, and many pieces of combat cyberware canonically do so by stimulating the brain to produce large amounts of various fight-or-flight hormones. Although these are low grade implants, the toll from even these would be intense from repeated use.
That seems right to me. The idea of sci-fi is to either ask "What if this thing was doable?" or "What if X thing IRL keeps going?"
Combat Cybernetics is building a gun into your arm, so now you can never put it down. It's the same problem superpowers would have, the option to use force/violence is now always there, immediately at hand. You have a hammer, do you want to look for a screwdriver or is this a problem you think you can solve 'well enough' with a nail?
When human beings are confronted with a problem, they will default to whatever they use most, whatever worked before, before considering a novel approach to the problem. That might just mean thinking "Can I lift that up?" and immediately dismissing it "That's way too heavy." but the process is always there. The more often a given approach solves a problem, the more they tend to lean on it.
i could never articulate thhis as well as you just did.
damn dood maybe you should make a video about it too lmao
wow, a really thoughtful write-up... I just want to add that I feel cyberpsychosis is the direct result of three levels of dissociation at once. The chrome itself makes you dissociative from your own body physically, the superiority complex that cyberpsychos develop dissociates them from their sense of empathy, and the new alter-ego that forms around the idea of the "new, chromed you" dissociates one from their sense of self, from their memories and values, etc. With all those layers removed, there's little room left for a thinking creature, and you're left with a scared animal
What people are forgetting is the source material for both of these are based on cyberpunk 2020, the tabletop game from Mike pondsmith and I'm pretty sure in the GM guide it tells you what cyberpsychosis is and why it happens. As much as I like fan theories, this one already has an explanation since it's not left ambiguous, the only reason we don't go cyberpsycho in 2077 is just a limitation of the game.
This. I didn't even watch the video, I know it's a core gameplay mechanic of 2020 and MOST DEFINITELY part of the lore and a reality of the in-game universe. The notion that "it's not real" immediately sounded wonky to me. I just came to see if anyone else in the comments realized the same.
@@night_city_nights ...No, as a longtime fan of the Cyberpunk universe (well before the anime or 2077), this theory is basically confirmed fact. Look up stuff Mike Pondsmith has said about cyberpsychosis. Chrome does cause neural strain, but the primary causes of cyberpsychosis are stress and detachment from reality due to someone's mental state and perspective on the value of life and their own humanity or lack of it. It isn't the cyberwear itself that makes someone lose humanity (which is a tracked stat) but rather that people installing a lot of it tend to SEE themselves as distanced from humanity. Cyberpsychosis is pretty much just falling into "normal" violent psychosis in a world where everyone is horribly traumatized in uncountable ways basically all of the time. Chrome doesn't exactly help things but it is 100% not actually the cause of the problem.
@@MalkuthSephira Cyberpsychosis is definitely caused by the cybernetics themselves. If it was purely mental you could treat it with mental health drugs, instead you treat it with immunosuppressents these cause the immune system to be less efficient. The cybernetics are being treated as foreign bodies by the human body. causing a cancer like effect this along with the detachment to their humanity as they replace more and more of their body their mind starts break. you have to remember that even most people in cyberpunk have implants in their brain some people can only handle that, a brain implant. some can handle more. Its just like real life so some people are very receptive to donor organs some just arent. With just about everyone having brain implants its no wonder their mind starts to to deteriorate when they get too many implants because its like they basically have brain cancer if someone lets it get to bad it turns them mad and eventually kills them. Cyberpsychosis is a disease more than it is just a mental illness some are more prone some arent.
If you get a high enough police rating in the game they call you a cyberpsycho and bring in maxtax so this could also mean that cyberpsycho's are defined by their violence and could be perfectly sane just violent and in the game you can knock out cyberpsycho's and they tell you there is a cure for it which wouldn't make sense unless it's just therapy and cyberpsycho's are just people who are sad and depressed and who can't bare to care anymore causing their cyberware to malfunction
Then again that makes me think the term cyberpsychosis was coined just to label violent people so they can indiscriminately eliminate them
Probably so
@@bumperjumperProbably, even more when you consider that Max-Tac is composed of, in their majority, of "former" Cyberpsychos.
Late to the party but this also lines up nicely with the real "Psychopath" term. It's not a real diagnosis you can get anywhere, the original psychopathy tests were exactly that, barely scientific police checklists wich included stuff like "promiscuous sex life" and "juvenile criminal records" as signs of it.
Maybe the reason Maelstrom and Adam are less susceptible is that you cant turn into a monster randomly if you choose to be one in the first place. Adams reputation proceeds him, but think about maelstrom. Compared to all the other gangs they are probably the most malicious gang that we know of. Unless you consider scavs a gang but scavs arent borgs either.
I think it depends on wether ur talking about scavs as in random scavengers or scavs as in that one Russian gang I've heard of in 2077
In lore most maelstrom members are suffering from cyberphychosis or are on the verge i think what keeps them from being worse then they are is the drugs they heavily use and the fact they have a low life expectancy and for Smasher he is Arasaka's fist so he is getting the best cyberware and the best medical care
Thing is cyberpsychosis is not just you turning into a monster. It is stated to be a dissociative disorder, meaning the persons start experiencing a disconnection and lack of continuity between thoughts, memories, surroundings, actions and or identity which is what all those trippy scene represent in the anime.
I think the violent reaction is just people innate fight flight response to experience jumping scene like they are in a movie. Imagine drinking in a bar, you close your eye one second and suddenly finding yourself in the middle of the street with petty criminal being in your face. That's what cyberpsycho experience they lose their grip on reality, feel like they can no longer control their body, feel like reality is distorted, find themselves in place they don't remember going to or even why they went their. It must be a terrifying experience and given how in cyberpunk it is often killed or getting killed I think most people would react violently to that.
YES I love this idea of willingly becoming a monster or "accepting" it, thus shielding against the dehumanizing aspect that leads to cyberpsychosis
@@bumperjumper thats the identity aspect - if you choose to become a monster, then every action that reaffirms the process will also be reaffirming your identity and thus sense of self. Someone like David, who wants to be a good person, was bound to crack eventually because every kill is dissonant with his identity
I was under the impression that cyber psychosis was the mind rejecting the implants similar to rejecting an organ transplant but with the hysteria of claustrophobia. At least that's how I came to understand it. Basically a dysphoria triggering a panic response where the fight and flight response loops continually. What could have helped to prove it would be if one of the cyber psychos started ripping out their own implants in the depths of madness but this was never shown so for now its just my theory.
Not disagreeing with your take! Just saying in the ttrpg cyberpsychosis comes from knowingly and willingly replacing perfectly good limbs with artificial ones. Your arm is perfectly functional, but you decided that a robot one would be better. This auto dissociation with parts of your own body is what pushes you to cyberpsychosis. You're slicing off perfectly good limbs for more strength and enhanced abilities.
@@alexpasquale8870 would be a good explanation as to why Adam doesn’t show any signs of psychosis like the others do since he was saved and had no body left to replace
David was experiencing cyberpsychosis when he was falling through the air with lucy lucy managed to bring him back to his normal state.
For me I feel as if cyberpsychosis is when the human mind ultimately stops seeing its body as it's own. Like the amount of implants and upgrades eventually has the individual stop recognizing themselves.
So, a form of dissociation?
@@Desmaad Yes, exactly that. I kinda look at it like DER in destiny to some extent
theory 7. All of the above. Some runners are definitely susceptible to becoming cyberpsycho - because they were already psycho or heading that way. Note that a lot of 'runners are criminals - and a lot of them doing questionable substances that will also fuck with their brain chemistry. Some cyberpsychos in the game are only "psycho" because they're getting revenge against the people who fucked them up. Some could be hacked and forced to go Cyberpsycho, either because of runners or because of corporate fuckery.
It’s scary to think the implications all of the mentioned theories has. I also think it’s a mix of all of them
I recently just finished a mission in the game and one of the data shards explained that cyberpsichosis can happen to anyone, even if their implant is minimal such as a liver or eyes. Anyone that any given moment is feeling lonely or depressed already has a predisposition to cyberpsichosis
It gives me the heebie jeebies to think that in a short spiral of depression or loneliness can put someone at risk of going cyberpsycho
Bro said Adam Sandler 😂😂
Twice or thrice at that 😂😂
Doctor: Cyberpsichosis could potentially turn you apathetic and even murderous
Adam: oh so work hours as usual?
Sasha's "cyberpsychosys" must be just a flashy name of her custom program. Knowing how programming worked in c2020 you can make a program named "NUKE" but it literally just displays some stuff to someone and that's all.
The quick hack is just making you not able to differentiate between friend and foes and then makes you attack. Cyberpsychosis is just blanket term for people who have been psychologically broken by the world they live in and became violent.
I think that when ever someone goes cyberpsycho they leave an imprint in there cyberware. So when David got Maine's cyber arms he was probably more susceptible to cyberpsychosis. That's what I think.
I thought the exact same thing! Personally I would get the heebie jeebies wearing Maine’s arms since it contributed to him going psycho. Even if it was to honor Maine, wearing the gear of someone who went over the edge seems like there’s more to it like you say
@@bumperjumper yea because most people in cyberpunk are probably wearing cyberware from dead people. Especially mercs.
@@bumperjumper The sandevistan was from a cyberpsycho in the first place so he probably wasnt worried about it
@@ryanplzz are you saying if someone already went cyberpsycho with some chrome it’s not likely to do it to someone else?
@@bumperjumper I thought cyberpsychosis was an illness that a large corperation like arasoka made up to hinder militech contracts when in reality its just ptsd. We see this in David only after he witnessed hid father figure/mentor not just die, but kill himself in front of him.
V also qualifies as a cyberpsycho, even though we were told Johnny didn't start taking over until V died, it could be because their closest friend died in their arms. Where Johnny only shows up to help guide V despite being a hallucination. Infact even Jackie shows up in instances after he passes pushing this narrative
Remember that in the 2077 game, after defeating Adam Smasher, you can see his brain through a hole in his cranium. If he was a 1.0 version of the engram (2.0 was the prototype that V steals in 2077), I don't think he would need any biological components whatsoever based on my current knowledge. Granted, I could be wrong though the idea of an army of Adam Smashers is terrifying.
“An army of Adam Smashers” - Epic. Horrifying but epic. It’d be too unpredictable/erratic for Arasaka to place so much value on Adam. An army of brainwashed David Smashers would be the imperfect dystopia of our nightmares
An entire army of people obsessed with the word *"MEAT"* yet they use it more as slang.
I don't think that would work out. Put two Adam Smashers in the same zip code and they're gonna try to take each other out. Adam Smasher is useful, but is essentially a one off. Consider, however, the Devil ending's V. (if they take the deal) Extremely capable, preserved in an engram, knows teamwork. Now, you may need to do some work to 'distinguish' the type V's from each other, just to keep any identity crisis problems from happening in the field. But it's not like that doesn't exist. Plus, V isn't a big deal _because_ of their reputation like Adam Smasher is. So you could simply make strike teams of them quietly. Now, that isn't to say there aren't logistical challenges involved, and a bit of potential groupthink issues. But it's a more viable basis than Adam Smasher for more than a one off.
Funny how easily sickening levels of detachment comes to someone who runs TTRPG's.
i like the rogue AI thing
kinda leans into that demonic possession thing but in a cyberpunk setting
very cool.
Cyberpunk 2020 explained it fairly well: the more you chrome up, the higher your chances to lose humanity. When your humanity is gone, you are not in control anymore. Call it cyberpsychosis, call it however you want, when life, death, pain and emotions mean nothing you stop being human. You have superhuman powers and no inhibitions, you will act like a monster without feeling a thing. In 2077 they tried to give more depth to the psychology of borgs but the basic assumption remains: you get more chrome, you become less human, you go on upgrading and go crazy. Even in edgerunners they imply the only solution is downgrading before it's too late.
I always thought of it as a “fairytale” to deter people from getting too much chrome so when a person does eventually snap from the constant stress of night city, they are at least easier to deal with.
The Cyberpsychosis quickhack Sasha uses is just the same one you can use in the CP2077 game.
When I was playing through cyberpunk, I noticed a few of the cyberpsycho fights were ex military, and had journals referencing medications. I didn't lore dive at all, but the ones I did read gave me a feel that the condition was caused by a mixture of ptsd and withdrawals from the drugs
That is indeed the case with pretty much all of them when you take a closer look. Various horrible circumstances caused someone with enhanced Cybernetics to snap mentally.
PTSD from war, pressure from unfair debt to various corps, drugs...ect, the reasons presented are many, but there is always something that pushes the person past the breaking point beyond just their chrome...except maybe that one cult ritual you can stumble into where a seemingly dead cybered woman rises from a Freezer and attacks you...
@@TheTriforceDragon
Lol the first time I encountered the dead woman in the freezer I already knew what was up.
Only had a weak ass fenrir, since I was at the start of act 2. Shot a whole mag at her and only shaved off like 2% health.
I ran without hesitation😂
There are also several logs that highlight the dubious definition of cyberpshchosis, believing that's it's just another term invented to justify an organization like MaxTac
@@SethAbercrombyIt’s scientifically proven that (In the game) Mental illness + Chrome does cause Cyberpsychosis.
@@TheTriforceDragon The canonical answer is that the relic + V’s resilience and Johnny’s mind protected V from becoming a Cyberpsycho.
PL pretty much confirmed this
Cyberpsychosis it’s pretty much linked to Mental State + Chrome.
I would recommend reading up on it in the tabletop rpgs sourcebooks as well and there are some psychologists that compare it to how a normal psychosis develops since trauma and trying to escape from reality is common in night city. Considering how random the targets are (like the bum in the anime) I dont think theres any active involvement. Im more curious how the cyberpsycho hack works but I think its just creating hallucinations like you would have when you go full cyberpsycho so you think your friends are the enemy
its just a virus that invades the software or a person's operating system and causes severe irritation and confusion. it tricks the brain to send certain signals and shuts off those needed and can even cause the brain to run on auto pilot
I like hearing this theory. Because this probably could mean that David wasn’t screwed anyways except another theory that I love is being used as a test subject working to Arasaka.
The term "Cyberpsychosis" is just a scapegoat by corps to label a much deep rooted issue. Most of them experience cyberpsychosis due to mix of ptsd, overdose of medication, drug usage and implant overload. Though one interesting point is that women are more resistant to cyberpsychosis.
I’m sure that has to do with natural levels of empathy and aggression
I think the reason women get it less is simply because they're typically just less likely to go as far. With cyberpunks hyper sexualized and hyper desensitized world, a lot of women are mostly getting body mods that deal with appearance or self defense or that just help with ease of life. Its really only the gangers and military that go far with the cybernetics and once again in cyberpunk it mostly men in those positions and the mods they get are much more body deforming and serious. Its clear women can be cyberpsychos. I think its just that women typically get less invasive cyberware as opposed to men. I mean look at david. His cyberware loadout was mostly body mods as well but they increased his body size almost double while women would typically get mods that add accessories or enhance natural features and make things better in bed or make it so they can taze creeps who touch them
That mission with the mayor. There is an entire other upper shadow world in Night City that we don't even know about. Also, what if the answer is All of the Above?
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I think the answer is much more simpler than that and you exactly touched it before introducing your first theory: Cyberpsychosis is just like regular psychosis. But the term "cyber" refers specifictly to highly upgraded individual, as their weaponmade bodies, once out of control from the user clear mind, becomes an actual danger to society. Hence there are both psychoes and cyberpsychoes in the world of cyberpunk. And as to what could trigger it, maybe it's also as simple as people relying too much on machinerie to define themselves, and become more and more detaches from their real selves and this is that mismatch that the mind cannot handle. Not the oveload itself.
so would you say it’s PTSD because that would explain why some people deal better then others and the fact that the people you’re around has an affect on your chances of going psycho. it would also explain how some people are out right not affected buy their cyber wear.
This is what i figured out on my own playing the game
@@sebroki4679Exactly...
Its like oter disorder its not guarantee you will have it.
Example Adam smasher ahs a body that looks like a Blonde Elvis he uses to fu ck women.
Its like real trauma, like goin to war, experience a near death situation, or be abused has a kid... some ppl are broken by it oters dont.
Maelstrom can be easily explained as then believing they are upgrading their souls and body (as it’s basically a cult), so the disassociation that comes with cyberpsychosis doesn’t take place, as they don’t have to get used to their bodies, they already were
Also we do see a few maelstrom cyberpsychos, both caused by extreme stress or interacting with the old net
Finally: A Cyberpunk Theory that isn't simply huffing Copium.
Out of all the characters in Cyberpunk, V is the one with the highest limit to how much cyberwear he can put on. By the end of the game 2077 V is basically a cyborg, more metal than man and he doesn't have any symptoms.
the whole cyber psychosis being fake is heavily implied to be true in the original table top. it's implied in the og games that its more of an intentional thing put in place by Corpo to try and keep their super weapon dogs on a leash and keep high-danger threats out of their hair. it pretty much implied to be intentional safety measures and there are some examples of characters in the lore that might be immune to it because of corpo modeling. im only a 1:11 in but i notice a lack of reference to the og game given its a pretty clear consensus in the ttrpg space that its a narrative created by corpos and not backed into the game and cybernetics
literally should have waited a second
I think V is not becoming a Cyber Psycho because of the relic
I agree!
this is canon
I swear to god these game animation/movies need to be a category in the game awards. This is one of the best animes I seen hands down.
Same here friend! I know people are currently voting on The Best Video Game Adaptation and Arcane/Edgerunners are the biggest nominees. Cast your vote my friend!
@@bumperjumper I still have yet to see arcane. With art I will give a full on chance where I don’t want to give a bias opinion. Trigger is a wonderful studio but there are animes I don’t like that others adore. Darling in the franxx I joke all the time it’s just a dollar store evangelion cause that’s my honest feelings on it while others find it their favorite anime. Games being translated to movies or shows has an issue on how you can handle that lore and theme to watching it. I feel adaptions on video games to shows or movies can be it’s own hybrid category that’s worthy on actually for serious discussions. This at least deserves a mention or a nod in game awards or with critics. Cause if we get more adaptations this good this is actually a really good cause this can actually invite more people to try out the franchise. Watching this anime actually made me want to go learn more of this world as well as actually going deep enough to talk about fun facts.
@@locodesert2 yeah very well said! I normally don’t encourage people to go out and vote but in this case it would make a difference; Edgerunners has raised the creative standard for anime and I want companies to see the value in crafting unique, artistic stories that sometimes are designed to be standalone series. There’s too much milking/lack of creativity going on imo
@@bumperjumper I’m planning to see arcane whenever I get time to since I heard so much good things about it and can’t wait to see more shows with love and effort put into them based on video games. Halo really did flop cause you can clearly tell the love wasn’t put in the right areas.
@@locodesert2 if I’m not mistaken the team behind the halo show admitted they hadn’t played the games; really shows how fans resonate with the passion the creators have when making content
Dam didn’t know Adam Sandler is in Cyberpunk. Is he doing a comedy set in game?
And Chuck Norris too? Honestly, that should have been the main character…
My reading of the dialogue in the game was that cyber psychosis is a term mainly used to dismiss the all around toxic landscape of Night City
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The way I perceive cyberpsychosis is that it is stress which comes in different forms, then triggers when someone is suffering from things such as depression where sometimes one cannot differentiate from ally to foe, sometimes from right or wrong (too much depression turns your cyberware rogue, like the immune systems in our body killing other cells due to stress), it can also be derived from so much anger giving us violent tendencies (ln reality sometimes we want to kill the person who wronged us in our heads but our cyberware translates it and turns it into reality), lastly when we do anything that disturbs our conscience and builds up like killing too much or stealing too much just to earn hard eddies.
In cyberpunk Misty kept on talking about how people in Night City is losing their spirituality, there is also the possibility that V why he/she is not turning into a cyberpsycho because in his/her journey he/she gets to be surrounded with people. This people, keeps on reminding them of what he/she can do and give, giving him/her some sense of purpose this is why in our lifepaths V as a Nomad tried to look for purpose in Night City, V as a Streetkid went to Atlanta, and V as a corpo has a life coach, each V is looking for ways to overcome stress hence the zenmaster quests because no matter where V goes, stress and insanity is just always behind them.
Then we see David, who even though his humanity is high, kept on losing his spirituality this began when he lost his Mom, then later when he lost the Edgerunners whom he valued, he then lost his sense of direction. He forgot of wanting to go to the moon with Lucy because they too became distant, David wanting Lucy to talk to him and wants to know what's going on shrugs him after, almost led to them breaking up, that's how or why David turned cyberpsycho because the ones he wants to talk to the most are either dead or keeping secrets, Rebecca is there yes but he did not look at her the way he looked at Lucy as David never looked at her as a bestfriend nor a potential lover, just a fellow edgerunner. In reality we as the watchers, we also have people along our journey who sometimes thinks the world of us but neglected to see that because we know that they are always going to be there until it's too late.
The way I see it, when you are in Night City your stress is bigger and higher, don't lose yourself no matter what. To quote Alan Moore “All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That's how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day.”
But maybe what really saved David and V from becoming cyberpsychos is the realization of that they are at heaven's door and they have to do everything in their power to see everything through they need to do it for their friends given the time they have left.The city can try to take away your humanity but they did not let it take away their spirituality. **queue I really want to stay in your house**
Edit: Thanks for the likes!!
Yeah depression plays an enormous role and I love the idea that people are the ones that ground each other in sanity. Love this!
I like the rogue AI theory. Given the nature of cyberspace in this world, it seems very plausible. Also, kinda Warhammer 40kish
I remember someone (I think it was Pondsmith but I'm not sure) comparing cyberpsychosis to something like roid rage, it becomes more prevalent the more cyberware a person has until they eventually snap. It is a blanket term because there's no single cause to it, just a general cyberware + stress combo. That's why I think the enviroment helps stave off the breakdown, it's the lowered stress more than anything.
As for a few answers to your points:
- The "Cyberpsychosis" quickhack may just be the nickname of that daemon program and have no relation to the condition, seeing as she uses it on a robot it might be an IFF scrambler of some kind.
- V's resistance may not be just because of the "two minds, one body" thing. Johnny is ex-military, him having handled both the military-standard implants as well as his own slice of PTSD, paired with the Relic rewiring him into V's brain might be what helps keep them level if not entirely stable.
- I don't remember if this is official info, but I have seen multiple mention that Smasher's high functionality was due to him being a diagnosed psychopath before he got cyberized. The implants didn't interfere with his mind because he didn't have that part to be interfered with in the first place.
- MaxTac aren't exactly recovered. In the game you can meet with that cyberpsycho-turned-MaxTac from the OG teaser and while she is sane, she's also quite unhinged, constantly stating that she enjoys the killing and trying to coax the same admission from V.
- pretty sure that the Maelstrom are described as being borderline cyberpsychos. If we're going with the roid rage analogy then it works seeing as most Maelstroms are extremely sadistic, like Royce dealing with disloyal members by throwing them into an industrial microwave.
I believe it was mentioned by a dev that V has an innately high sense of humanity, which made them extremely resistant to developing cyberpsychosis. Add on the relic, and Johnny, which helped to buffer the many physical/mental/emotional stresses V experience made it almost impossible for V to develop cyberpyschosis.
"It is a blanket term because there's no single cause to it, just a general cyberware + stress combo."
I guess that could also explain Adam Smasher - his brain was probably so messed with, there's no other emotion he can ever feel anymore other than sadistic glee. Therefore, there's no stress, no worry - he just fights to kill most efficiently, and basks in the glory of a job well done afterwards.
It's just a theory of mine, but I bet that, if Morgan Blackhand returned, absolutely dominated Smasher, and then toyed with him, refusing to kill him but also rubbing in his own superiority at every opportunity, Smasher would eventually snap just like any other cyberpsycho.
In the 2020 TTRPG I used to have as high an EMP stat as possible in order to give a buffer for borging heavily later in the campaign.
So as far as I've pieced together the whole night city setting is pulled from another cyberpunk universe. In that universe there's an entire network of old tech and satellites that is absolutely infested with rogue Ais. For the most part they stay in their respective systems and there is a massive firewall separating the new net from the old, but it wouldn't be interesting if there wasn't some sort of interaction. So the rogue ais occasionally chips small holes in the firewall and send out corrupted code before the firewall seals back up. That corrupted code spreads out and infects everything it can but for the most part it's just whispers and suggestions, maybe some hallucinations if you're particularly susceptible (too chromed out). Most people never even notice but those at high risk of snapping tend to lose their minds.
In the other universe this aspect just allowed players a deeper avenue of exploration and danger. I would love to see it make an appearance in 2077.
While this isn't directly a theory about cyberpsychosis it is still a theory about the show.
Upon rewatching the show, there is something extremly weird/confusing about the 2nd episode. THat being, Lucy herself. When her and David are in the van with the guy who wants to take David's implant and sell it off, Lucy showcases an enterily contraditory persoanlity. Lucy as we know is very reserved and introverted and keeps to herself. Everyone in the gang knows that and the show reinforces that's who Lucy is and she doesn't like taking huge risks unless necceary.
However in that scene, Lucy straight up acts like Rebecca, pulling a stunt you'd expect out of her and acting exactly like her, lauphing and enjoying the sheer danger and crazyness of the situaiton. Which is the polar opposite of her character from that point forward.
It feels almost like that Scene was meant to be with Rebecca, or that Lucy was directly communicating with Rebecca the whole time she was with David to lure him in to trusting her. But in either case it's a very bizzare sequence as given her characterization there's no real proper answer that 100% for why she acted like that. As it's simply not who she is.
Yes I found it really strange too and even brought it up in my Edgerunners Has Some Major Plot Holes video. You brought up the primary argument that lucy “acted” that way to lure David in. However, I don’t think that’s the case. In episode 3 when David is driving like a maniac with the stolen car, Lucy is getting a thrill out of it, proving that deep down she’s a free spirit. The truth (which people kept reminding me of in the comments) is that maines death along with her knowing David was on a path straight to death made her more reserved, fearful, and scarred
3:41 Adam Sandler 👨🦲
i was wondering if i was the only one who heard that lol
in cyberpunk 2077 theres a shard you find that says that cyberpsychosis isnt a illness but something that is given by someone
like a netrunner hacks you into a cyberpsycho
but in the game it seems to either be made by a AI on someone from outside the black wall (or wtv its called)
PTSD from watching ultra violent BD’s combined with using cyberware to slice and dice people. Our soldiers are carrying vivid memories of death around in their heads.
I think I remember something in the game that said “cyberphyschosis. Isn’t a real thing. It’s all improper chrome that was faulty or improperly installed that causes problems with the brain.” Meaning the more chrome you get the higher the risk of getting it, and chances that the software will mess with eachother.
I think it works like data corruption or system crashes, except in a human brain.
So I kind of agree with theory 5.
One thing I would to point out regarding V not getting cyberpsychosis is because of the relic, in the game it's stated that v was living off using it because his brain was heavily damaged, and even if that wasn't the case, it's also stated that the relic was rewriting his brain so it could be rewriting the cyberpsychosis effects, this by extension could be why smasher is shown to be immune. While I do believe smasher does have a extreme resilience for cyber ware, I also believe he's a construct to be a fail safe in case he goes rouge.
Very interesting; I also think Arasaka would have smasher be a construct to keep him in check
In the cases of David and Maine, their cyberpsychosis manifested in the pursuit of an unobtainable dream or at the intersection of conflict between 2 dreams that cannot coexist, when Sasha was able to inflict cyberpsychosis this was on constructs or engrams closer to what Adam smasher is but WAY less advanced, this wouldn't work on Adam because exactly as you mentioned in the video it seems likely that hes a high functioning cyberpsycho and the only meat left on him is a brain that never had much empathy to lose. I didn't realize before watching that max tac were previous cyberpsychos, not sure what that means for my theory but it's a really cool piece of information! Great video
To add to my first thought, this conflict of desire probably most commonly manifests as a clash of self preservation versus moral obligation to save the lives of those around you, or at least spare them; when murder is second nature and cybernetics are a vehicle to make you more capable at it this conflict will happen often and may be enough to push a choomba over the edge
The cyberpunk RED rulebook describes cyberpsychosis as: Dissociation + Psychopathic Tendencies = Cyberpsychosis or, put another way... "I'm a thing." + "Everyone else is a thing." = "Why not just kill anything that gets in my way?"
Under "Effects of cyberpsychosis": "Cyberpsychosis is not necessarily always violent. Not all "cyberpsychos" are violent. However, a number of cases, particularly those who have already manifested psycho-pathological or sociopathic tendencies, will find those tendencies magnified to a dangerous extent. Specifically, their view of others as things to be used or harmed without thought or empathy increases dramatically"
Essentially cyberpsychosis is just disassociation from the rest of humanity. If you keep replacing bits of yourself with cyberware and become more and more mechanical you stop seeing seeing bodies as anything other than a thing to be used and discarded/upgraded. And at that point seeing life as valuable quickly drops off too.
This is why maxtac employs cyberpsychos. Their lack of empathy makes their jobs of "Stop an ongoing massacare" a lot easier to handle, and they won't have qualms about blasting cpsychos into bits.
As for the cyberpsychosis hack, that's actually in the game too, and the way I always interpreted it was "Make cyberware inject angery chemicals straight into brain, causing a psychotic break. (Oh also she uses cyberpsychosis on a robot, which'd just be overriding said robot's IFF system)
take a sip of water every time he says cyber or psycho and you'll die of hydration
Always struck me that, tabletop rules aside, the whole point is that cyber augmentations are a force multiplier, mentally as well as physically. Power corrupts, etc. Everyone has a hidden fear, a hidden desire, some dark little thing that in healthy people is restrained and largely unnoticed, but always one bad day from growing into something serious and pathological. A driving force, tamed and shackled most of the time...
You bolt a load of cyber-bits to someone, amplifying strength, speed, adjusting their chemistry, and you unshackle what was already there and multiply its effects a hundred fold. Especially if the reason they adopted cyber augmentation is to foolishly feed that shackled fear/desire - it's like how you can't cure an addict by giving them what they crave.
As the man once said - fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.
I agree, cyberpsychosis probably is based on the fact most people dont think they have the potential to be a monster, when in reality the only barrier to such a thing is something as insubstantial as a thought.
In the words of baldermort (in less than a heartbeat)
if u dont see yourself as human in the first place, users dont seem to struggle with cyberpsychosis. its the ones that want to retain their humanity that get messed up.
The rogue ai theory makes the most sense to me, as a group like maxtac could most likely use their own equipment and ai’s to reverse it, if any of these were true to that's prob the most likely
I wish they just said it's true. It's better that way... imagine losing the sensations you've always known and can't even look at yourself without your mind crashing because you literally cannot recognize the what's left when you killed your soul.
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I think the quickhack cyberpsychosis would just be a hyperspeed version of what the creepy guy did to David when he had him in the braindance loop
Cyberphyscosis is caused from essentially a loss of humanity manifesting as a dissociative disorder, we see this especially well with maine in his hallucinations and whenever Adam smasher says anything, main couldn't see people anymore stating the reaper is after him, he no longer saw people but just threats and with Adam smasher it is slightly different but the same concept where he just sees people as meat or chrome. It is possible to get Cyberphyscosis with just 1 implant or even 0 if enough trauma is experienced, every Cyberphyscosis incident in cyberpunk 2077 has a multitude of events causing the eventuality of Cyberphyscosis. I think the Cyberphyscosis quick hack doesn't actually cause Cyberphyscosis but just imitates it, alot of what people think Cyberphyscosis is - an overload of cybernetics causing manic violent episodes is actually very different from the actuallity and I believe it is a personification of what the dark future can do to the human psyche.
This makes total sense. The concept of a quick hack is to quickly create an effect on a machine or person so temporarily “imitating” cyberpsychosis could very well be the case
@@bumperjumper senpai noticed me :o
@@Ns0mniak-real of course!
Isn't cyber psychosis just ptsd. It's the same symptoms almost and the only difference is that a chromed out person's mind could probably make up even more convincing hallucinations than a purely organic mind. Hence why it's harder for modern meds or traditional therapy to bring them back down. And then each time they get closer to being unable to leave the hallucinations
Umm. No that's nothing like PTSD.
@@SlyNine @SlyNine I know that the actual definition of what qualifies as ptsd varies by person and by the diagnostic physician. But, at least from my experience with my grandfather from Korea. Ptsd is characterized by episodes where after expose to certain sounds or sights, smells, etc. A person who has previously experienced severe mental or physical trauma looses their ability to think rationally as they enter a state of either fear, panic, violence, confusion, or a mix and match or these and more. In which they believe that they are back in that traumatic event.
I'm curious what you thought was wrong with my explanation. Do you think that that a person suddenly being back in a different time and place even if they don't have a visual hallucination. They are experiencing internal hallucinations. Internal hallucinations are events where despite no changes to what is actually heard or seen physical. The brain can supper impose a completely different reality on top of what they should see. Meaning such that a man hearing a car backfire while in olive garden is suddenly convinced he is back in Vietnam.
And to continue not every ptsd has these internal hallucinations. Sometimes the extent is extreme adrenal rushes from stimuli that are similar to the trauma. These cases are often dismissed because despite the sudden activation of fight or flight and adrenal release occurring in classic Vietnam vet ptsd and in these other cases. The fact thar there isn't internal hallucinations often gets people labeled fakers as that's not real ptsd. They believe that a person suddenly entering a state of pure fear or anxiety with their adrenal system shoving their heart rate in to the 180-210 bpm range, sudden fight or flight including shaking, running away, spontaneous crying and simply crumping to the ground in cold sweat unable to even be reason with as you sit there watching them rock back and forth with a thousand yard stare. Yeah ptsd isn't any of what I put in either this or the last vomment
the question seems to be, is it physical or mental? And I genuinely think it's a nice little vicious cycle of both
You just gave me an idea , remember when david went to school and used the firmware for the school lecture , and his system freaked out and messed up everyone’s else’s. The theory you have about cyberwars keeping them in an infinite loop if the parts are t constantly upgraded us closest in my opinion
This is exactly why i tend to stay far away from fan theories
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I think araska could be starting some not all but some cyberpsychos and the reason for doing it is to see who has a high tolerance and who can actually control their humanity. When they find that out they will use them as a lap rat. And make more people like Adam smasher
Yeah they have an incentive to replace smasher since he hurts the bottom line with all the collateral damage
in my point of view cyber psychosis is a mixture of disassociation, depression and stress with a little despair, an example and the beginning of the maine episode there we see that he is running something that we noticed that he makes an effort, something that with the cromo He doesn't have Also, perhaps the thought of "I am special" which is a part of the narcissist which prevents a remedy of the situation or that narcissistic aspect is part of the cyber psychoses With Adam smasher, the story is different from most of the cromos They are old ones that probably don't have much connection so we see Lucy having a hard time hacking him Which perhaps also requires little of the brain when using them In addition to having seen several deaths during the fourth corporate war which may have made him used to such thoughts (sorry for the bad grammar is because I'm Using Google translator)
I think Adam has Self ICE. It prevent hostile hacking attempt.
That’s in line with what we saw when Lucy tried to hack Smasher
the only reason adam smasher isnt cyberpsycho is because he has nothing to loose
The opposite could be argued I believe. People seem to go psycho when they lose all hope too so maybe adam’s desire for violence is so strong it keeps him sane(ish). I like your idea!
"There is no war in ba sing se" vibes
I think it might be the same phenomenon as when someone goes on a random killing spree in game to test out their gear:
A person with powerful chrome and little to no empathy or concern for others (maybe going as far as seeing them as random npcs or background programs) would probably sometimes just go on a random killing spree. Reasons would vary from rage-fuelled revenge to desensitisation; a question of “why not?”
There is a cyberpsycho quest (regina) that some Maelstrom is summoning named Lilith and that links to another quest about the aliens, reptilians and blue eyed conspiracy theories. If you love conspiracy theory that quest line was interesting but alas it was short.
I think bumber jumper is going through cyber psychosis, still talking about edgerunners. It was a great show, we all loved it, now we are over it.
I think Md Islam Zex is trapped inside a braindance simulation, and these clearly mistaken comments are encoded cries for help to the past
I'm still playing cyberpunk
@@bumperjumper Damn
@@bumperjumper his cyber-psychosis has progressed so far that he's still making references from the show, I think it's too late to help him
If this adds to the theory, specifically maxtac, you can treat cyberpsychosis in the ttrpg specifically with good old therapy
Funny to think you can just become bassicly fully chromed out and a god if you just have enough willpower and healthy parts left
I thought 5 would turn out to be true during the game and that this would be the revelation after you finish the Cyber Psycho side-quest, but nothing of the sort happened. Edgerunners has me convinced that it's a real condition.
Just to enlighten you, the Cyberpsychosis quick-hack is available in the game. It doesn't cause actual cyberpsychosis, but merely mimics it. While it's plausible that a nefarious netrunner could induce cyberpsychosis in a healthy person in hopes that it will be written off as another spontaneous incident (although I imagine there's a risk that their OS will carry traces of the quickhack in their code) this can't explain what David and Maine went through. The quick hack works instantaneously, David and Maine succumbed to their dissociations and hallucinations over an extended period of time.
Rogue AIs are an interesting idea but if those were the cause wouldn't Netrunners rather than borged out mercs be the primary victims of cyber psychosis?
I think Malestrom is an entire gang of high-functioning cyber psychos. Adam Smasher also perfectly fits that description. Alternatively, it might be the case that while low-empathy makes a person vulnerable to it, being a complete psychopath to begin with (which by all reports Adam was even before he got chromed) renders a person immune since they don't have the emotions that would lead to the stress that's associated with cyberpsychosis.
This is the first I'm hearing of Max Tac being x-cyberpsychos. That sounds like a plot hole, unless this is secret information not known to the general public. If it's a secret and cyberpsychosis can be cured then that would make sense. If it's common knowledge then no one would buy the claim that it's incurable. It also seems implausible that Max Tac would be able to sustain its numbers since their MO is to slaughter any Cyberpsycho they encounter. I think Regina specifically mentions that they pretty much never leave cyberpsychos alive. When do they recruit exactly?
It would make sense that there is some sort of genetic component to cyberpsychosis. David's father is never revealed and if the story of edge runners continues into a season 2 then there could possibly be a reveal of how David is "special". Genetic modification could be the key to both the control and the full utilization of cyberware. MaxTac could in fact be full of cyberpsychos who have been reprogrammed and genetically modified. David's father would probably be smart, just like his son and could have been involved with the genetic research.
President Arasaka manipulated AI to impregnate Gloria with upgrades to give birth to the one who is built different. This would give balance of the Internet more to the Corpos.
They have already said that there isn't going to be a season 2
Good video, couple things to add tough.
First, the cyberpsychosis hack Sasha uses is available for players to use on cyberpunk 2077 too, and it's description states the induction of a temporary cyberpsychosis-like effect, so no, it's not cyberpsychosis itself, it's just the best name they found for the quickhack
Second, the thing about MaxTac agents being cyberpsychos... That is read from a shard, which could have been written by anyone, and the way it is written indicates the writter has negligible credibility. I'm not saying it is wrong, but that source ain't proof.
As for why aren't all the maelstrom members cyberpsychos... Idk, go figure, I don't like them.
nah bro read into melissa rory and how she was brought into maxtac after a cyberpsycho episode and you can even find research about her in the ncpd lab during river wards side quest
3:15 This ability is not exclusive to her, cyberpsychosis is a quickhack in game meaning any half decent netrunner can probably use it
Cyberpsychosis is indeed a real thing in the Cyberpunk universe. Cyberpunk 2020 and Cyberpunk Red, both definitive sources of lore, explain that cyberpsychosis is a real psychological issue describing dissociation caused by expanding the body's capability beyond what is human.
I read somewhere that for someone to become a cyberpsychopath, the person needs to have gone through some traumas, the first cyberpsychopath we saw in the anime is an ex-military man, that is, yes, he probably must have gone through several traumas, David witnessed an exchange of gunshots and shortly after that he was left to die along with his mother by the trauma team and after a few days she died, now V, went through some horrible things like (small spoiler alert) watching his friend jackie die right in front of him this being horrible it might not bring a trauma to someone like V but this event probably marked the character's life but not to the point of him becoming a cyberpsychopath
If I remember correctly, in the old 2020 book there was a "cure" for cyberpsychosis and it was simple therapy. It allowed you to get a certain amount of humanity points back in which the player would most likely just keep adding more and more cyber onto themselves. This allowed for two things, a constant threat and the ability to go full borg because lets face it, everyone wants that. I never liked this rule personally, it seemed to reduce the threat of psychosis down to a few measly thousand dollars. By the time a player needed therapy from all the cyber, they had enough money to pay for thousands of hours of therapy. You could also get vat grown limbs to reintroduce your body too, often your own limbs on freeze which gave you a certain amount of humanity back, no player I ever played with took this route.
Lol it’s funny when it’s put that way. “I’m gonna put on as much chrome as I can and set aside a portion to pay for the therapy.”
i mean... going to a therapist can't solve ALL your problems. can it??
Going to a therapist can save you from killing yourself or becoming a nonfunctional homeless alcoholic.
Speaking from experience...
Although cyberpsychosis existed in the table top game as an means of stopping people from getting too op, I believe that CDPR partially uses the illness as an reference to how in games like GTA the player character suddenly goes beserk and kills dozens of people before escaping or dying. It’s just that this situation that players finds themselves doing is now an piece of the narrative based on how bystanders would naturally react from someone doing this.
In fact, the BD that’s used at the beginning of the show with the cyberpsycho would make logical sense if you imagined an player was behind the psycho’s actions and behavior. (Not to say that all cyberpsycho incidents are caused by an players influence, but if you want to flesh out an theory on it so be it) Additionally, V isn’t immune to going cyberpsycho - it’s just that we haven’t decided to go on an killing spree yet. Since maxtac will call us an cyberpsycho if we do it for long enough.
V is immune because hes technically dead and its two programs in his skull, not one. the pain he feels is from the active nanomachines rewriting his DNA on a genetic level to match the engram so they wont experience psychosis within a foreign body when the process is complete. the engram makes his body compatible.
in V's endings he does end up having 6 months to live, unless Johnny switches in so I think the engram and rejection theory could hold up
You referred to Adam Smasher as Adam Sandler a few times, and this is my new head canon.
I personally think that cyber psychosis requires some sort of previous trauma or mental illness. Cyberware can amplify it, but there needs to be something else.
The machine spirit is strong
This theory almost changed my mind lol
Almost? I’m even more curious now! What was missing to fully convince you? What felt like too much of a stretch you think?
@@bumperjumper it was when u talked about how the cyberware could actually potentially be the cause why ppl are going cyberphyco but in the anime David was cyberphyco not because of the gear,but because Faraday got to him to put on the Cyber skeleton and "save his crew" but what Faraday wanted was for him to be victim for him to loose his sanity and become cyberphyco.
the creator already confirmed that cyberpsychosis is not really from implants but from trauma.
It should be considered that cyberpsychosis doesn't exist in a vacuum and its nature as a dissociative disorder. For instance, Maelstrom might not be as susceptible to it because their philosophy means they associate more with the chrome than their flesh, so there's no inner struggle to rationalize this. "Humanity" is the stat that's fighting this battle, and so suppresses symptoms so long as it's winning out, but the battle itself probably is the cyberpsychosis itself.
It can also layer on top of other mental ailments, like PTSD, so there might be cyberpsychos in more peaceful settings or less trauma that don't express the same obvious violent tendencies because their cyberpsychosis isn't mixing with violence-induced trauma. Could explain why corpos can use therapy to help prevent it.
Adam Smasher is probably a mix of the two. He doesn't have attachment to his flesh or humanity, so there's no dissociation, and there's no PTSD because he's a psychopath already, thus the symptoms aren't exagerated by trauma.
1: I'd argue that Sasha makes a poor example. The root word of psychosis is psyche, meaning "of the mind". Robots do not have brains, therefore, they cannot logically be afflicted by Cyberpsychosis. Etymology is important. A more accurate term for this situation would just be malfunctioning or reprogramming.
2: Yes, all of MaxTac _were_ Cyberpsychos at one point. Whether or not they still are is anyone's guess. A handful of sources have mentioned that rehabilitation is possible, just highly unlikely in most cases. Personally, I like to think that MaxTac are the rare few who were actually rehabilitated successfully. Their violent tendencies are still present, but actually kept in check. So now they have a means of utilizing those tendencies for good.
3: Roughly 2/3s of the Maelstrom gang _is_ comprised of Cyberpsychos. This is well-known.
4: This is more of a platitude than a satisfying answer, but Cyberpsychosis isn't an issue for V because CDPR dropped the ball as hard as they possibly could've by failing to implement the mechanic in any meaningful way. This is also why David's character arc is a million times better and more relatable than V's.
5: This actually _is_ confirmed. Think of Arasaka like a bad mechanic. Sure, they'll fix your car, but they'll also screw something up on purpose to make sure you keep coming back as a return customer. (Capitalism in a nutshell for ya.) The TTRPG also states that Cyberware varies drastically in terms of quality. Another big factor is the skill of the Ripperdoc who's actually installing your Cyberware. Long story short, you usually get what you pay for.
It's canon that shoddy / buggy / inferior / obsolete / discontinued / recalled Cyberware exists, and that there are Ripperdocs who just flat-out suck at doing their jobs properly. So it's reasonable to assume that Cyberpsychosis could also be a side-effect caused by faulty Cyberware, or by having your Cyberware installed by someone who lacks the expertise and professionalism to actually do it right.
These are all great points! I’d like to add that quickhacking cyberpsychosis is also possible in the game against machines AND humans, but it takes a slightly different meaning with machines as you’re suggesting
I like your way of thinking and agree!
0:05 cyber-psychosis isn't from anime
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