Just to add some extra options: 1) You can use (sugar-free) soda as a bath. The phosphoric acid in it will clean rust as well and is not quite as harsh as vinegar. Soda is also pretty cheap; my supermarket has sales of 10 2L bottles for $10. Even if the soda is flat, it will work just fine. 2) I have also used my wet/dry sandpaper that I use for flattening the backs of my chisels and irons and Krud Kutter to work pretty well. Like flattening, just use increasing grits to obtain finer scratch patterns. I like this for long flat surfaces. I have used this on saw plates to good effect; I wasn't trying to preserve the etch because it was long gone. I have heard that, so long as you are not too abrasive in cleaning around the etch, you can use gun bluing to "restore" the etch. 3) In my experience, I don't like wire grind wheels. They seem to glaze the rust onto the surface of the metal, and I have to scour that off later. However, it is useful for removing Japaning. NB: I would NEVER recommend Naval Jelly. It also uses phosphoric acid, but in a higher concentration than soda. Therefore, it, like vinegar, will quickly leave a black sludge on the iron that will require more work to remove. However, for spot cleaning deep into pits, or screw holes of planes, it does work well so long as you keep an eye on it. All that being said, I used naval jelly to restore my great-grandfather's 6" Boyce-Crane jointer because of all the nooks, crannies, and tight places that required cleaning. Be very careful using stronger acids (sulfuric or hydrochloric) because, the stronger the acid, the faster the reaction, the more heat (the reactions of the acids to the ferrous oxide is exothermic) and fumes that are created. The last thing you want to LIVE an incident from "Home Improvement" by trying to go too quickly. The adage "when you want to go fast. go slow." seems to be very true for restoring. My take is that you want the most control over rust removal in order to preserve as much metal/patina/etc. as you can.
Thank you for your explanation, it was very educational. You stated that electrolysis would not take off paint, I have used it on 100 year old fire hydrants that have over 20 layers of very heavy duty paint on them and the electrolysis process takes off all the paint and all the rust under the paint. I leave them in the electrolysis bath for 5 - 7 days with amazing results; no chemical paint remover, no chemical rust remover.
Thanks for the advice. I've done both vinegar and electrlolysis and find vinegar to be a little less intrusive. I think you really have to watch the electrolysis closely because it can do some damage to the metal if not monitored.
There are a LOT of people who will argue all day against using vinegar to remove rust. I'm in several tool groups on FB and most of them even have it in the rules of the page that you may not offer vinegar as a method due to the fact that it can and often does ruin the tool, and almost always leaves stains on the steel. I've used it myself in the past with passable results, but I wouldn't anymore! I think electrolysis is the way to go, it seems to be reasonably cheap and easy, looking forward to your series on it! Of course, sandpaper and elbow grease works too..
Ruin the tool? Are those the same people who swear that a plane must be machine dead flat to cut wood that will probably shift out of flat as soon as the weather changes? There is no ruining the tool. If it has a sharp blade and everything is structurally sound, it will cut and do good work.
THIS IS EXACTLY THE VIDEO I NEEDED YOU TO POST. Thank you for the great information, i was so confused about how to go about de-rusting some hand planes i bought a couple days ago.
I'm wanting to do that but have not yet gotten into this point that I really want to show it off. All of mine have been purchased. I find it to be far more expensive to make your own than to buy one and modify it.
Vinegar is cheap and you can get it everywhere. However, I usually sit there with a pot scourer (scotchbrite) or a nylon brush and scrub it clean rather than soaking it. (Using P.P.E. is recommended.) Other household chemicals than can come in handy include Sunlight (or Dawn in the USA) HandyAndy (don't know the USA equivalent) and Domestos (Toilet bowl thick bleach) The Domestos works really well as a precursor to acid treatment but it's very aggressive, so work quickly and clean all the chemicals off thoroughly when you're finished.
Great video! I received all of my father's tools, junk, etc., which was in two large sheds. I decided to clean everything. Over 3 years time, I tried all the rust cleaners, except electrolisis. My favorite turned out to be grocery store white vinegar. The stuff just keeps working, use after use. For small items, I use jars. I got one of those huge trash cans with wheels, 60 gallon, that I keep 3/4 full with vinegar. Still using the same vinegar from 2 years ago, and still works just as good. For deeply rusted items, I leave them there a week or even a bit longer, then I pull them out one at a time with a water hose and sprayer ready. You have only minutes to remove the black stuff and leave the metal looking like new.
I typically use electrolysis or a citric acid bath depending on the particulars. The one thing to be aware of with the electrolysis is it can generate flammable gas. I've never used it for rut, but I've heard good things about using the paint removal pads which affix to angle grinders and the like.
I've used a lot of these methods, and for cleaning up tools I pretty much have settled on electrolysis as the way to go. Once you put together a tank and develop the process, it's just dead simple to hook parts up, top off the water, turn on the juice and walk away for half a day or so. Mine's built from a repurposed PC power supply, so the only real cost for me was for some chunks of rebar, wire, ring terminals, bolts, the Rubbermaid 10-gallon tub, and the Super Washing Soda. Maintenance isn't bad; I don't do much. Every now and then I'll dump the liquid and whip up a new batch, but usually I just top it off and let it ride for months. I've had to sand-blast the rebar rods bare again once. As far as cleaning tools off after they come out of the tank, I usually wipe them down with a solvent to remove any of the Super Washing Soda residue, rinse them off, blow them dry, then get on with whatever else needs to be done, like oiling them up for use or other refurbishing work.
Let me know if there's anything I can help you with. There's lots of different ways to do it depending upon the condition that it's in and the type of rust.
vinegar does well. you just have to make sure you do not leave it too long. it can eat into the metal and cause other problems, but for the price it can not be beaten.
Great information. I've used vinegar and it works....slowly. I found that sulfuric acid works geeat and quickly. I buy Liquid Fire(concentrated sulfuric acid) at my local Stock and Field store. It has to be diluted so be very careful. Always add the acid to the water not water to acid. Adding water to acid can cause the acid to splash and cause burns.
A useful guide - thank you ! Looking forward to the electrolysis video ! You'll get a "battery" of questions after that, but hopefully nothing too "shocking" ! I'll stop now while I'm losing... A Great video as always !
Though a little off topic, you mentioned sand blasting - have you ever used sand blasting to finish wood, leaving raised surfaces and valleys between the harder and softer parts of the grain?
FWIW - Coca Cola (and probably other colas) also works as a soak, although again you have rinse and dry thoroughly afterwards. Presumably the dilute phosphoric acid solution dissolves the iron oxides and passivates the surface.
used vinegar on my first restore last week (#4 miller falls), wish I had seen this then as I didn't think to dilute it down. Came out ok, but some deeper pitting on the Iron will probably keep me from a properly sharp edge.
Cleaning vinegar is 8% concentrate, whereas regular white vinegar is 4% concentrate. Cleaning vinegar diluted 50/50 is probably cheaper way to go and gives you twice the volume. How many gallons or litres do you need to do a No.5 or 6 plane? Thanks
“Next thing you know you’ve spent $600...” well that’s better than most woodworking things where the first thing I know is I spend $600, then do it again, and again...
I just put out that video last week. And I used a car charger for it. You just have to make sure you get an old car charger the new ones with smart electronics will know that you're not connecting it to a battery.
Hydrochloric acid works too (also available in the big box store). Just be careful that the resulting chlorine fumes do not attack and rust the other tools in the workshop. Do not ask me why I know that ...
My preferred method is generally the wire wheel since it's non-destructive, and the only method that doesn't involve a "consumable" product that you have to keep on buying. Of course it uses electricity but my brain doesn't seem to mind spending money on that, because I can't see it.
Try This, red vinegar for 24 hours on the metal. DON'T SAND ANYTHING METAL!! It will only cause larger problems later. A soft restoration is killer. Throw down with a wire brush on the metal and knock off the rust. It gets your piece where ya want it without killing metal or wood on the piece to be restored.
I've heard a few people say that. But I can't find it at either of them near me as well as several other auto parts stores don't carry it. But most all of them carry WD-40 specialist thankfully the two of them work almost identically.
Just to add some extra options:
1) You can use (sugar-free) soda as a bath. The phosphoric acid in it will clean rust as well and is not quite as harsh as vinegar. Soda is also pretty cheap; my supermarket has sales of 10 2L bottles for $10. Even if the soda is flat, it will work just fine.
2) I have also used my wet/dry sandpaper that I use for flattening the backs of my chisels and irons and Krud Kutter to work pretty well. Like flattening, just use increasing grits to obtain finer scratch patterns. I like this for long flat surfaces. I have used this on saw plates to good effect; I wasn't trying to preserve the etch because it was long gone. I have heard that, so long as you are not too abrasive in cleaning around the etch, you can use gun bluing to "restore" the etch.
3) In my experience, I don't like wire grind wheels. They seem to glaze the rust onto the surface of the metal, and I have to scour that off later. However, it is useful for removing Japaning.
NB: I would NEVER recommend Naval Jelly. It also uses phosphoric acid, but in a higher concentration than soda. Therefore, it, like vinegar, will quickly leave a black sludge on the iron that will require more work to remove. However, for spot cleaning deep into pits, or screw holes of planes, it does work well so long as you keep an eye on it. All that being said, I used naval jelly to restore my great-grandfather's 6" Boyce-Crane jointer because of all the nooks, crannies, and tight places that required cleaning.
Be very careful using stronger acids (sulfuric or hydrochloric) because, the stronger the acid, the faster the reaction, the more heat (the reactions of the acids to the ferrous oxide is exothermic) and fumes that are created. The last thing you want to LIVE an incident from "Home Improvement" by trying to go too quickly. The adage "when you want to go fast. go slow." seems to be very true for restoring. My take is that you want the most control over rust removal in order to preserve as much metal/patina/etc. as you can.
Thank you for your explanation, it was very educational. You stated that electrolysis would not take off paint, I have used it on 100 year old fire hydrants that have over 20 layers of very heavy duty paint on them and the electrolysis process takes off all the paint and all the rust under the paint. I leave them in the electrolysis bath for 5 - 7 days with amazing results; no chemical paint remover, no chemical rust remover.
Wow. that is a long bath time. I am usually a few hours to 24 hours at the most. sounds like a fun time with those. nice work.
I find it less confusing when you give us all the details you can rather than just saying "this is the best". Thanks for the help!
Anyone else want to see him restore that rusty old plane?
I keep thinking about doing it. It's missing the wing on one side but it might be a fun project to show how to braise on a new one.
Thanks for the advice. I've done both vinegar and electrlolysis and find vinegar to be a little less intrusive. I think you really have to watch the electrolysis closely because it can do some damage to the metal if not monitored.
There are a LOT of people who will argue all day against using vinegar to remove rust. I'm in several tool groups on FB and most of them even have it in the rules of the page that you may not offer vinegar as a method due to the fact that it can and often does ruin the tool, and almost always leaves stains on the steel. I've used it myself in the past with passable results, but I wouldn't anymore!
I think electrolysis is the way to go, it seems to be reasonably cheap and easy, looking forward to your series on it! Of course, sandpaper and elbow grease works too..
Ruin the tool? Are those the same people who swear that a plane must be machine dead flat to cut wood that will probably shift out of flat as soon as the weather changes? There is no ruining the tool. If it has a sharp blade and everything is structurally sound, it will cut and do good work.
THIS IS EXACTLY THE VIDEO I NEEDED YOU TO POST. Thank you for the great information, i was so confused about how to go about de-rusting some hand planes i bought a couple days ago.
Have fun. I always love seeing a tool come back to life.
Dude you are in my head! I was just getting ready to look for a rust video.
Lol mind reading is what I do
Can you do a video on your blasting cabinets and your soda ? Did you make your cabinets or buy?
I'm wanting to do that but have not yet gotten into this point that I really want to show it off. All of mine have been purchased. I find it to be far more expensive to make your own than to buy one and modify it.
Vinegar is cheap and you can get it everywhere. However, I usually sit there with a pot scourer (scotchbrite) or a nylon brush and scrub it clean rather than soaking it.
(Using P.P.E. is recommended.)
Other household chemicals than can come in handy include Sunlight (or Dawn in the USA) HandyAndy (don't know the USA equivalent) and Domestos (Toilet bowl thick bleach)
The Domestos works really well as a precursor to acid treatment but it's very aggressive, so work quickly and clean all the chemicals off thoroughly when you're finished.
Great video! I received all of my father's tools, junk, etc., which was in two large sheds. I decided to clean everything. Over 3 years time, I tried all the rust cleaners, except electrolisis. My favorite turned out to be grocery store white vinegar. The stuff just keeps working, use after use. For small items, I use jars. I got one of those huge trash cans with wheels, 60 gallon, that I keep 3/4 full with vinegar. Still using the same vinegar from 2 years ago, and still works just as good. For deeply rusted items, I leave them there a week or even a bit longer, then I pull them out one at a time with a water hose and sprayer ready. You have only minutes to remove the black stuff and leave the metal looking like new.
I typically use electrolysis or a citric acid bath depending on the particulars. The one thing to be aware of with the electrolysis is it can generate flammable gas. I've never used it for rut, but I've heard good things about using the paint removal pads which affix to angle grinders and the like.
I've used a lot of these methods, and for cleaning up tools I pretty much have settled on electrolysis as the way to go. Once you put together a tank and develop the process, it's just dead simple to hook parts up, top off the water, turn on the juice and walk away for half a day or so.
Mine's built from a repurposed PC power supply, so the only real cost for me was for some chunks of rebar, wire, ring terminals, bolts, the Rubbermaid 10-gallon tub, and the Super Washing Soda.
Maintenance isn't bad; I don't do much. Every now and then I'll dump the liquid and whip up a new batch, but usually I just top it off and let it ride for months. I've had to sand-blast the rebar rods bare again once.
As far as cleaning tools off after they come out of the tank, I usually wipe them down with a solvent to remove any of the Super Washing Soda residue, rinse them off, blow them dry, then get on with whatever else needs to be done, like oiling them up for use or other refurbishing work.
I saw an old guy who uses a scraper on flat surfaces. Burrs the blade like a card scraper. Also less is more if you like patina.
Just today I bought an old stanley plane from the local farmers market. I did a search for how to remove rust from old tools and saw this video.
Let me know if there's anything I can help you with. There's lots of different ways to do it depending upon the condition that it's in and the type of rust.
Not sure if you answer questions, but see vinegar also removes rust. Any problems do you see?
vinegar does well. you just have to make sure you do not leave it too long. it can eat into the metal and cause other problems, but for the price it can not be beaten.
Great information. I've used vinegar and it works....slowly. I found that sulfuric acid works geeat and quickly. I buy Liquid Fire(concentrated sulfuric acid) at my local Stock and Field store. It has to be diluted so be very careful. Always add the acid to the water not water to acid. Adding water to acid can cause the acid to splash and cause burns.
A useful guide - thank you ! Looking forward to the electrolysis video ! You'll get a "battery" of questions after that, but hopefully nothing too "shocking" ! I'll stop now while I'm losing... A Great video as always !
Lol. It's going to be fun.
You can get 1 gallon of Evapo Rust on amazon for around $16-20. It works really well.
yup. just can not find it locally.
Though a little off topic, you mentioned sand blasting - have you ever used sand blasting to finish wood, leaving raised surfaces and valleys between the harder and softer parts of the grain?
Yes I have used that texture of many times. I used to make signs
James , what model Schumacher charger is that. Found a couple. 2/10 and 2/6.
hey James left! I prefer scrapping the rust off with a plane iron that needs whetting.
That works fantastically if the surface is smooth enough or flat enough for it.
Great video James! Thank You 👍
FWIW - Coca Cola (and probably other colas) also works as a soak, although again you have rinse and dry thoroughly afterwards. Presumably the dilute phosphoric acid solution dissolves the iron oxides and passivates the surface.
Thanks James, probably saved me some grief. Hadn't considered the fumes from vinegar in a confined space
great explanation and comparisons.
thanks Jack. my pleasure!
thank you !
used vinegar on my first restore last week (#4 miller falls), wish I had seen this then as I didn't think to dilute it down. Came out ok, but some deeper pitting on the Iron will probably keep me from a properly sharp edge.
Good overview. Thanks.
I see your planes hanging vertically. How did you do that ?
here you go. ua-cam.com/video/xIiLn0J_kD4/v-deo.html
I made the mistake of letting a tool sit too long in vinegar... still works but I am reminded not to be stupid every time I use it
Cleaning vinegar is 8% concentrate, whereas regular white vinegar is 4% concentrate. Cleaning vinegar diluted 50/50 is probably cheaper way to go and gives you twice the volume. How many gallons or litres do you need to do a No.5 or 6 plane? Thanks
If you do it through on-line you can pick up Evaporust, and other brands, at Home Depot with no shipping costs when it arrives in the store.
Interesting I'll have to look at that.
thank you
I am a vinegar guy. Once the vinegar does its job I use it (the vinegar....not the plane) to kill weeds in the driveway.
Sounds about right!
Thanks good information
I watched a few videos about electrolysis. I never saw anyone combining vinegar-water and DC.
What are your thoughts on doubling up on the techniques?
there is nothing that says it would not work, but if you keep the solution int he bucket it will eat the anodes over time.
For a minute I thought that bucket was CGI. It looked odd on my phone.
I've forgotten something in Evaporust for over a week, with no ill effects
Yep. Those are very forgiving.
Great video. Another method I have seen on utube is a molasses bath. CheersJohn
Grunk! Love the new word! 😂🤣
it is such a good word!
@@WoodByWrightHowTo can you tell what I've been doing all morning!?!?
Yeah, vinegar wins out.
“Next thing you know you’ve spent $600...” well that’s better than most woodworking things where the first thing I know is I spend $600, then do it again, and again...
Lol yep sounds about right.
Sometimes rust is what is keeping it together. I don't want to remove rust and end up with pits everywhere.
When you do the electrolysis how to video, it would be nice to use a charger, or some other device, we can readily buy today.
I just put out that video last week. And I used a car charger for it. You just have to make sure you get an old car charger the new ones with smart electronics will know that you're not connecting it to a battery.
O'Reilly's automotive stores sell Evaporust. I'm sure others would too.
Unfortunately not mine.
Rust removal tips on metal that can’t be soaked...antique wagon that I would prefer to not disassemble?
Evaporust makes a Gel that can be placed on a surface. other then that sandblasting would be my go to.
The only place I could be consumed by vinegar is in a bowl of collard greens.........with cornbread!
Oh now that sounds good!
“Unnecessarily prominent hand planes”
"The joy of...." *puts on Bob Ross wig*
That wig does come in handy.
Nah, an Alex Comfort lab coat.
Hydrochloric acid works too (also available in the big box store). Just be careful that the resulting chlorine fumes do not attack and rust the other tools in the workshop. Do not ask me why I know that ...
I’ve used hydrochloric acid too and like you said, it works wonders. Best done outdoors.
My preferred method is generally the wire wheel since it's non-destructive, and the only method that doesn't involve a "consumable" product that you have to keep on buying.
Of course it uses electricity but my brain doesn't seem to mind spending money on that, because I can't see it.
The electrologis bucket isn’t expensive.
Yep. I've got a few videos showing how to make them.
Project Farm did a shootout on rust removers, then did another one on electrolysis:
ua-cam.com/video/6-MC_ZEXQbw/v-deo.html
Is apple vinegar better. worst or the same for rust removal?
It is right about the same. The same active ingredient just tends to have a few other things in there other than just water
Fyi mixing the vinegar with boric acid works freaking great.
I watched Rob Porter who stated never to use vinegar!!! As it will damage cast iron.
It can damage the iron but so can an electrolysis bath or Evaporust. You just have to be careful with it.
Try This, red vinegar for 24 hours on the metal. DON'T SAND ANYTHING METAL!! It will only cause larger problems later. A soft restoration is killer. Throw down with a wire brush on the metal and knock off the rust. It gets your piece where ya want it without killing metal or wood on the piece to be restored.
""Try and find what works for you..."
I can get evaporust at AutoZone here.
I've heard a few people say that. But I can't find it at either of them near me as well as several other auto parts stores don't carry it. But most all of them carry WD-40 specialist thankfully the two of them work almost identically.
First do no harm. Try least agressive in sucession. I like Ballistol and brass brush then magic eraser and finally metal polish.