HiFiMan Susvara - Summit-Fi Headphone Review
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2024
- Thanks to Head-Fi user @SA11297 for loan of Susvara!
Watch my HiFiMan HE1000v2 Review: • HiFiMan HE1000v2 Headp...
Watch my Meze Empyrean Elite Review: • Meze Empyrean Elite He...
Read my Audeze LCD-24 review: www.head-fi.org/showcase/aude...
Read my JPS Labs Abyss Diana Phi review: www.head-fi.org/showcase/abys...
Channel Intro: • Channel Introduction
My hearing quirks: • WaveTheory's Hearing Q...
just makes me want one that much more. god i wish i had more money lol. great review as always!
I guess I will have to check these out, as a guitarist who has dabbled in recording the idea of hearing my favorite acoustic music in a new (real?) way sounds fantastic. Thanks for the review~
Will be interesting to see your review of the HE-6se V2. I have it and didn’t like it to start, and then really grown to love it (related or not to switching it to powerful tube amp). It has bad rep, and I think it is very underestimated.
Dangling carrots, again. Just saying… thanks for the review. I’m sure the Susvara is my next Hifiman. I do love my HEKv2 but I think I’m ready to look into the Sus and chain to support it. The Sus might also be a nice compliment to my D8000 pro
After a little more than a year, would you be interested in revisiting the Susvrara with beefy integrated/ power amp to drive? A lot of Sus owner claims that no headphone amp can really drive the can to its full potential.
I would love to see your opinion on the LCD5 vs the Susvara . Most likely coming up soon. :) . Interesting that you feel that it sounds the most natural headphone. The most natural headphone I have heard was the Utopia on a good tube amp.
Tried all 3 (sus, utopia, lcd5) the susvara is just better. Utopia has great sound tho. Lcd5 SHIT comfort. Good sound.
Thanks for reviewing these. Does the RAAL Requisite SR1A have any sound quality aspects superior to the Susvara? Are the decays of the musical notes too quick on the SR1A compared to the Susvara? And, is there any of the "plastic" timbre in the Susvara as is common with planar magnetics?
I don't notice that, no. It's difficult to put into words how many 'problems' Susvara has managed to solve.
I'm thinking for months now to jump in....had the Sundara, now have Ananda...skipped Arya...this vs Utopia ( can get either almost at same price)
I really recommend listen to the obravo headphones
@WaveTheory
Thanks for this, the most natural sounding thing I’ve put on my head is the MySphere 3.2 earspeaker
#JustReal
agreed, Ive had a bunch of amazing headphones and I think the mysphere 3.2 is my favorite.
You should get a hold of the Solitaire P’s if you can, criminally unheard in summit-fi circles. Supposedly like a suped up LCD 4 with bass second only to abyss but warmer.
I disagree wholeheartedly
about the 3.5mm that is correct. I think almost all of the new ones you would buy today is 3.5mm, as is my pair
Recently here at CMA, we actually did ab both of the 2.5 variant that I reviewed eight months ago now, and my own 3.5 variant and there is a difference in the frequency response and in the tonal balance
There is sonically actually a difference and I personally prefer the 2.5 the mid range is definitely more lush and less for a lack of a better term reference sound kind of strange to say
But you can pick out the difference between the two headphones immediately so they did not only change the connection, also I believe it’s been measured as well not just subjectively but objectively as well which is kind of irritate
You need a speaker amplifier pretty much for this headphones, though to be fair a lot of people have been putting it on the oor but I don’t think it has the headroom of a benchmark, hopefully will be bringing one of those in for review as well as the bakoon
Sorry but for timbre and tonal balance the SUS, makes all other headphones setting aside the HE one that I’ve not personally heard, sounds like there been any queued LOL
Watch Passion for Sound's Lachlan talk about the electronics of the Susvara. He pretty comprehensively tests the appetite and performance of the Susvara with respect to the "speaker amp" myth. He substantiates that while they're uniquely insensitive, the variations in performance between amps has mostly to do with how bloody REVEALING the Susvaras are. Electrically, they follow the math of power, current, and decibels. I drive them well off the balanced outputs of the Bryston BHA-1, which is a beautifully designed and over-engineered amp... and tops out a little over a watt. But it is a dual-mono design with a very high slew rate, which can deliver four times its power into a balanced load no matter how demanding the transients and dynamics, and never clips; This amp makes it sound GREAT, but it thins out prior to a satisfying volume level.
The ten watt Burson Soloist drives it fantastically, with no upper limit and full juiciness.... but is a touch aggressive and not as texturally real as the Bryston is within its sweet spot, to my ears. The high-output 300B Woo WA5-LE puts out twice what the Bryston does, roughly, and can drive the Susvara to dangerous levels without any wheezing, clipping, or other complaining. And it is friggin' gorgeous.
There are also advantages to an amp built for headphones, given that headphones at this level are brutally revealing in the absence of big speakers in a room, even without the bodily pleasures of SPL and vibrating bones. The less the amp is built to feed a beast of prey, and the more pristine signal (=music) it gets out of just a few watts, the better the pairing. A 3 - 12 watt (the Holo Bliss, designed to be the perfect mate to the Susvara is reported to be 12) watt dedicated design has fewer challenges in the way of being a straight-wire-with-gain.
You might find some technical weakness in Lachlan's review. I didn't. And I have a nice cross section of good to great amps here, and I know what the Susvara can do with a high-powered headphone amp with no more power than it would take to drive an ultra-sensitive horn speaker. If you find something that makes "it needs a speaker amp" more than Susvara urban legend, share it - I'm not being sarcastic at all. I've been pleased the last few weeks to hear what a few headphone amps could actually do with it. The Susvara IS a level and a half above the Utopia '22 in transparency and sheer detail (like the ability to hear a touch of reverb on sibilance, or a tiny brush of a standup bass against a music stand - as well as little details of the instruments themselves). It is a bit more resolving than the dangerous Abyss 1266TC, but with a richer, more realistic timbral and harmonic capacity. Its just faster and more complete than any Audeze I've heard (which doesn't include the CRBN).
It is a huge achievement, in short. some people don't care so much about the micro-details. Its not a preference I choose; I find this absolute purity and clarity-without-glare to be the most emotionally satisfying. And there are many headphone amps which can actually feed it. I think. Tell me if I'm missing something.
@@mortcola there is a lot to unpack here,
First of all bliss will be arriving shortly, and CRB N is already on the desk utopia will be the next release, so keep an eye out for that
When we are talking about SUS and powering it with speaker amplifiers, we are not talking about getting the headphones loud, you can get SUS loud with a topping 890 I think you need roughly 0.75 W to get freaking loud.
But getting loud, where, which part of the frequency response, what happens to the other frequencies, when that point peaks?
We find most of the time the treble region increases in volume leading the rest of the frequency response behind such as the subbase and mid Base. SUS has a sensitivity of 83 dB, we’ve got to take into account a song is not a singular tone a song is complex and that amplifier and the power supply need to hit each one of those frequencies simultaneously
And this is where headroom is necessary, and in most situations, most amplifiers crap themselves when it comes to SUS
Also, I urge you to take every reviewers perspective with a pinch of salt, including my own, take into consideration what equipment they have on the desk, and make sure what they’re saying, they have actually actively tested in the real world with equipment on their desk, I tell you monobloc benchmark with SUS is the most authoritative best performance, I have gotten out of it, compared to everything else because it’s on my desk
I have been putting this unit through its paces over the last 18 months with as many amplifiers and DAC as the channel gets, a comprehensive review will be arriving shortly
@@mortcola 3) Power output is almost always tested at 1khz. And the power output of an amp may differ at other frequencies, particularly in the lower frequency range.
You might have slightly to substantially less power at say 40hz than you do at 1khz. The power spec won't tell you. Same could be true for high frequencies.
There's been a couple amps I've tested that had pretty much even performance across the FR at lower levels but then either high or low freqs started suffering at higher levels
4) The spectra of music isn't flat either.
Again, headphone sensitivity is tested at 1khz. And so to get the 1khz content to say 90dB might be fine on a given amp. But if you look at the spectra of nearly any song you'll see that lower frequency content is typically 10-30dB higher than stuff at 1khz and above. So even if the mids/treble are loud and sound fine, low-end will almost always be the first thing to suffer. This is why the biggest improvement you hear people talking about when they put susvara or HE6 (or even other planars) on an 'overpowered' amp is that the bass gets so much more controlled and overall better.
@@ConvinceMeAudio Dunno if you know.... I ordered my bliss, it is on the Kitsune site as of two days ago! And I have my Utopia '22. It was a good week. Musically it is a great week. Financially....well, no pain, no... TOTL audio! Bliss will be here physically in a few weeks.
The reviewer grain of salt is very right. Passion for Sound's Lachlan, along with Currawong, are consistent references for me. I don't agree with them, and don't need to, but I know how to translate their responses to my own, and they do their homework... and as far as my knowledge goes, they know their technicalities and seems o have very good ears. I'm just getting to know Mr. Wave Theory - enjoying so far.
You clarify in electrical terms something I try to argue: real music is a very different challenge from normal testing parameters, and once the design and build are taken care of, the measuring device I care about is my ear-brain.
A Bryston designer, and the CEO, both explained to me why, electrically, their design MIGHT handle the Susvara better than the nominal numbers would suggest, because of particular design features. And, in fact, the under-powered Bryston drives them better in every respect than two different "powerful enough" amps. Most amps at that level wouldn't, I bet.
I would love to hear/read what you review.
Seems Passion for Sound's Lachlan knows his electronics quite well. But I know electrical and electronic engineering least well of most subjects. And I thank you for your answer and info. I've read about the Benchmark, as the benchmark against which other Susvara-ready amps are measured. Bliss is designed by someone very good at what he does. The May KTE is an extraordinary DAC - can't wait to hear what he can do with a bespoke amp. Will you be reviewing it, do you think?
So, thank you for this.
A few thinky-thoughts:
For more objectivist folks, it is very hard to avoid treating post-hoc mathematical confirmation of "accuracy" (as in, what a consumer does rather than what the designer intentionally and or unintentionally did in the creation of the device) as a a transfer of authority from human listening and emotional experience to infinitely cruder measurement parameters - or to a lethal "scientific" cognitive bias that the consumer-listener IS the flaw in the chain, since we can be "fooled", and not realize that the math tells the truth. My ear-brain has a lot more work and time invested in it than any 21st century machine. I hear the way I do because it is my nature to. I like a frequency signature because it suits my highly but imperfectly evolved nature. I can do the philosophy, but that's also beside the point. I have a philosophy degree, which teaches me how limited philosophy is as well.... and the philosophy of music tells me a bit about why my listening and emotional response are paramount.
Do the engineering, yes! Understand the principles, design better. But few if any "bad" designs will sustain their shiny reputation, unless they fit a set of human priorities. Tube 2nd harmonic "distortion"? Well, I like a slightly live room for playing and for listening to in-room hi-fi. My mom's voice is right in that midrange, and we're built to hear with greatest acuity and emotional "meaning" there. Flat might reflect a "neutral" design.... but music and listener aren't neutral, and don't have to strive to be. No, a device "should" - not - prioritize flatness. Some people will like the sheer objectivity, or some facsimile of it, for listening or mixing/mastering reasons. But music IS distortion. It is turbulence, communication, it sings and screams and insists, it follows the contour of the emotional life.
I let the designer figure that out. I listen and decide what pleases me. Then I'll read and learn the engineering stuff, because I like to understand. But first.... music, feel-thinking it with my flesh. No yummy numbers until I'm done. And no measurements can take priority over my listening. Its not possible. My flesh and emotions and psychoacoustics are not flaws, and they are not flawed. They ARE my musical nature.
@@ConvinceMeAudio I have the goal of understanding the science better, now that I've gotten a few life goals taken care of. And to play Chopin and jazz competnently.
Given what you've explained, what do you think of how a lower-powered amp like the Bryston might do a better job than its specs would indicate? No problem if you don't wanna explain more. But I'm curious to know more.
Hum, this video is Sus...
Jokes a part, nice video! Everyone says the Susvara is the "most natural headphone". Probably never would have enough money for it, but this "most natural" always had me curious.
Hi guys and Wave Theory. I see some comments about the 2.5mm version sounding quite different from the 3.5mm one. I also noticed that all of the reviewers seem to have received the 2.5mm one. I just ordered a Susvara today from Hifiman. I originally asked Tony for the 3.5mm one but should I backtrack and ask for the 2.5mm one since it most likely matches all of the exact frequency response etc of the one that most trusted reviewers got? Thanks so much.
I have heard claims they are different as well. My current Susvara is a 3.5mm. There was a year in between hearing the 2 versions so I cannot confidently speak to differences. I will say the 3.5mm version still sounds fantastic and is still my personal favorite.
@Reviews By WaveTheory awesome thanks so much!
Have you heard either of these (my current headphones):
- Focal Utopia
- Hifiman HE1000se?
I would love to hear your comparisons of the Susvara/Abyss to these two.
stay tuned...
@@wavetheorysound Hehe. How about a little preview, like you did with the Abyss in this video? :)
The utopia and he1kse are more fun! The Susvara is boring. Too much sharp edges, and too soft hitting imo. I had the Susvara twice.
@@bunozen1Hehe, thanks for that. :) I suspected this could be the case. I am actually saying goodbye to my Utopias now; so far the HEKse is the closest to my dream headphone that I have experienced.
I’d like to know how the HEKse compares when using the AutoEQ settings for it. I believe those settings make it sound more natural.
I don’t know, my Sundaras sound pretty good . . . especially if I’m drinking.
susvara is the headphone that taught me what it means for a headphone to "sound natural"
👌👍
Summit but this is below the HE 1 surely you can’t have two summits one above the other. But this is so much more affordable if there is such a thing at this level.
Whoa wave is jumping into the deep end today.
Fortunately, I know how to swim ;p. Ironically, my wallet is also very light and floats a little too much too...
@@wavetheorysound ha i know of this problem
The best synergy is the bakoon amp 13r and the Holo may kitsun edition dac
More natural sounding than a ZMF? Hmmm press X to doubt, hifiman headphones are kind of metallic sounding tbh.
susvara sounds pretty different than all other hifimans in my opinion
I can agree to an extent. Cheaper HiFiMans can be harsh and sharp in the treble and create that metallic sound you speak of. Sus is very smooth and tonally balanced up top. ZMF doesn't bring the resolving power to catch it on overall realism, but they do a great job on midrange timbre.
U will need to give it a listen ;-)
Less bass, less treble and more forward mids. Is this a super Ananda? 🤔
!
Sus
It is hilarious to me that you can spend so much money and still get a shit cable. You'd think they would sort that out at the 6000 dollar price point ,sheesh. Even at 1000 dollars, I can't believe I can't get a half decent cable in the box that isn't annoying to interact with on a daily basis.
It looks very cheap😅
Sus