This makes me think of Everything, Everywhere, All at Once and how having alternatives in life doesn't necessary make you happier. Endless options can also feel meaningless if you don't know what you need.
The fundamental problem is that tinder and co lose business if someone goes steady, so everything is optimized for the 'match moment' with little care about what happens after it (the chat tab is for example pushed into the background when it really should be the default tab, and has been buggy for me)
Well its easy to be shallow when you give someone the choices to be shallow. Are we really expecting anything greater from humanity these days?!!?!?! We are fucking animals and that's a huge low blow to Animals.... Plus the Dating App algorithms are all meant to make them money and probably own the limitless supply of Bot accounts running on the online dating sites to make attempts at scamming people or keeping them on the hook in the app just so the company's metrics look good... Notice how hard their customer services are to reach, its for a reason and its not to provide good customer services... People need to hang out more with their friend circles and not be so committed to embellishing your social media world to stroke your egos and vanity.
Online dating companies have workers and departments dedicated to Bot Accounts so that their victimized customers stay on the app talking to fake accounts all while these companies data metrics grow essentially making them that Big Data money....
this is the biggest problem with online dating apps that the youtuber introvertedmadness talked about as well. because dating options essentially provide an "infinite" pool of possible partners, people aren't willing to settle for anything that's less than perfect because "perfect has to exist in that infinite pool of possible partners".
People? You mean women. Women who are unwilling to settle in the pursuit of the most perfect man due to their infinite options. They hold all the power on those apps as they get hundreds of matches while the average man can't even get a few.
@@cryptiddy Not really, it's actually the opposite. Most men are the ones willing to settle as they don't have any options and are thirsty af. Women have an abundance of options through social media and dating apps. Doesn't work the same way for men.
Not sure what makes you think women have more options than men or aren't thirsty af as well. But you're wrong. Women use dating apps much less than men and women don't consider social media to be for dating either so that "point" is moot. I also just looked into it and there are literally studies that show women are more likely to settle in long-term relationships than men. Cope.
@@cryptiddy Women use dating apps slightly less than men as they have the advantage of getting approached by men in real life. Women don't approach men and don't need to do since it's expected that the man approaches. That's a significant advantage in dating right there. Now what you take things online, women have a much crazier, absolute advantage. The average woman gets something like 50+ matches compared to the average man's 2 matches. This point is not debatable as it's fact. There's tons of articles and data online confirming this fact and lines up perfectly with what male anecdotes. If this is not common knowledge to you, I'm taken back as you're living in a privileged bubble. Also, saying women are likely to settle in long-term relationships is true, but doesn't prove how any of your points like how women are thirstier than men. Just because women are likelier to be in a long-term relationship doesn't mean they'll settle for the first decent guy. We don't know what the actual numbers for in-person encounters, but online, women do not settle whatsoever for the first decent guy as they don't have to. Why would they when they have 50 matches within 2 days? The woman's standard for men shoots up higher online where she aims for the the top 10% of men in her inbox. This is why it's recommended that men meet women in real life by getting involved in the community or approaching them as that's the only way of avoiding becoming a number in a random woman's inbox. By the way, it'd be nice that you don't delete any of your comments that I reply to.
Interesting how all those app promos show women; I guess it would not be the right message to show a fella swiping away without a single match for months haha
In any dating environment, women are a substantially more valuable asset than men. Many pre-Tinder dating sites' biggest problem was a massively skewed gender imbalance with too many men and not enough women. It's even the same in nightclubs where women will often pay low or no fee at the door to get in, or in swingers clubs where single women are allowed but men have to bring at least 1 woman with them. Putting women in marketing is a way to signal to men that women use the app too, but also to signal to women that it's something normal women actually do and enjoy.
I've never been able to get into dating apps, or any social app really, where the only purpose is to "meet people". At least on traditional social media there are ways to talk and express yourself naturally over time. On dating apps, the interaction feels like it ends at the match moment. It's about as effective at building relationships as it would be to approach people on the street and see if they're open to chatting with you just because you made eye contact.
I just open tinder and it says "nobody here" but you can pay money to see 15 people who apparently liked you. It doesn't even seem free if you can't see everyone.
Can't deny that dating apps are great because it gives you option to meet people outside your immediate pool. It made me feel less anxious that I have to find someone within my immediate group, since taking a move within the close groups can sometimes mess up good friendships. But like the video highlighted, the elusion of option definitely can take away time and effort you put in to people you truly interact with or someone next to you at the moment. Always will be a double edged sword.
In a way it's good to be in your pool. I find that online dating has brought me in contact with people from different walks of life that were potentially dangerous to me (felon)
I feel really uncomfortable on dating apps and perform really poorly on them. But it feels so much harder than it used to to meet people in person (I'm not in college anymore, social interaction for everyone is declining before and especially after lockdowns, and dating apps are making people less receptive to meeting in person). I feel like a hostage to Hinge/Tinder, which haven't even produced success for me anyway. I suspect it's a positive feedback loop-if you're predisposed to not liking it it goes badly, and because it goes badly you dislike it more, ad infinitum.
@@shaq9361 ummm lol, I am? Lots of people (including friends of mine) like dating apps and have had good experiences with them. Feel free to like them yourself, I'm miserable and hate them but that's just me.
The whole "Dating apps suck but there's no irl alternative" thing reminds me of cars and how they affected society. When first brought onto the market, cars were just an optional luxury, as most people lived in small, dense rural communities were walking was always an option. But as cars became more affordable and widespread, it lead to the creation of vast highways and suburbs, with urban planning gradually putting less and less focus on walkability. To the point where cars have basically became mandatory for anyone living outside of a metropolitan downtown area. Similarly dating apps used to just be an optional convenience, but as they became more and more mainstream and central to finding a partner, we're seeing the live events and institutions that were designed to bring people together socially slowly being squeezed out of existence. For this reason, I honestly see it as a moral and social obligation to not use dating apps.
Counter point: There's virtually no competition in in-person dating. If you are good at introducing yourself, and can get comfortable with some women not being interested, you're a refreshing rarity. I've done okay in person, but a couple of my friends who've spent more time single have said it's easier than ever.
Sorry app dating isn’t going well for you. It’s a tough dating market for sure. My strongest recommendation is that you get your dating profile pics rated, probably through a photo assessment app like photofeeler. Since most apps are supremely visual these days, you have to have excellent photos to get your proverbial foot in the door. I’d start by rearranging your photos based on those assessments, and then plan some new photos as well, possibly with a local photographer you can find via social media. I took all my dating apps offline until I lose enough weight to take better photos, my research indicated this is an essential part of the process. Good luck!
I’ve always been curious on how profitable preying on Loneliness would be !I wonder how juicy are there margins? Edit:Damn that ending was surprisingly heartwarming ! Didn’t expect that from a business channel .
I feel onlyfans is a more direct player in monetising loneliness. Dating apps seem more in the business off filling the gap of boredom and smoothly connecting/meeting people and become another social media almost, just more hyperlocal
@@rrrr2150weird enough, seems true and plausible. If you meet your match, are less 2 people or maybe 3 out of the question, and taking the lack of equal ratio of femme to homme, we can see how...
Tinder has every incentive to HIDE good matches from you. If they show you people with whom you could start a real relationship, they lose both a possible paying customer AND a product/advertisement. And yes, they definitely see women as products.
Tinder success stories are always great, but from their standpoint people who settle into LTRs are "lost forever" as customers. Thus they rig the app in ways that prevents most people from ever finding the right long term connection in order to keep paying users on the platform for as long as possible.
@@sam510938764 I notice that lot of these success stories are from people who got into Tinder early - people who met several years ago. Back when they needed success stories to get the word out and grow Tinder's user base.
So Tinders model is deliberately broken for the one thing it's supposed to do for consumers. They turned the love life of users into a bunch of app micro transactions.
When you outsource the “chore” of looking for a partner you accept the risk of it not being done as you’d prefer. There is a price for ease. IMO using apps for dating signals a lack of self respect and also desperation..
@@johniewalker4356 it's a sign of lack of self respect and desperation to you because the apps are purposefully made to be so shitty that a lot of people only use it as a last resort. I find it amazing how people will try and defend billion dollar companies.
@@onesteeltank they are tailored to the human instant gratification mechanism. Their job is to make money not to find your spouse. That’s a byproduct. And if you look closely it’s by in their interest for you to find your soulmate asap. In fact it’s best if you never find them and you stay addicted.
The App Store essentially rejects new and upcoming dating apps since there are "too many" of them. It is basically just helping the incumbents in the space not having to deal with trendy dating apps.
@@nslouka90 My friend got banned because he posted a shirtless gym photo, tried to appeal, didn't work and now he can't use any apps made by Match because they automatically recognize his face and autoban his profiles across their apps. Monopolies suck.
@@Soosss Your friend 100% didn't get banned because of a shirtless gym photo ahah. If people got banned for that they would loose 20% of their members.
@@lewiswood1693 They probably have automation in place that detects nudity and the likes. Of course such systems are not without flaws and those in the moderation team most likely don't care
I'm not american and all of this dating stuff is weird for me. I'm not traditional, nor religious. But The whole artificial match never sits well with me.
I've never liked the idea of judging someone based off of looks alone, so Tinder has always been a distasteful app to me, lol. But the sites that request a bio, people are lazy and don't really put effort into them. Maybe I'm the weirdo for looking at it similar to a resumé for a job, but you put effort into a resumé to get that job. I feel if you're going to use a site that asks for a bio, it should be similar. Put your best foot forward so that you can find an equally fitting match.
@@muhwyndham I can understand that viewpoint to an extent. But I don't want to keep playing roulette with the things I want, lol. I have several things I refuse to budge on with a partner, such as not smoking, minimal (or no) drinking, not wanting or already having children (I do not like children), they must be non-religious as I do not want religious iconography in my home...these things make me VERY far outside of the norm of most people, especially where I live, and that's not even my complete list, lol! And no, I don't see this as being picky. I would be rich if I had a dollar for every time someone complained to me about their partner over things that could've been resolved if they'd have vetted the person better and known more about themselves and what they want in a relationship. I know what I want and am refusing to compromise, because I know I'll be very unhappy if I do. I don't like Tinder either, though. But I would much rather there be an option for people to openly say they just want casual sex than to use other dating sites where people want a long-lasting relationship but the other person doesn't. Having multiple dating sites allows for lots of people to find exactly what they're looking for. And it doesn't infringe upon those who want to just bump into their partner, so everyone can still have what they want. It's okay if dating sites aren't your thing, though.
This is missing the crucial info that dating apps intentionally discriminate men by matching the bottom 20% of women with the bottom 80% of men, and vice versa. This creates the need for men to purchase premium, otherwise none of the real matches (e.g. the 55% man matching the 52% woman) are even options to them. The top 80% women get the top 20% of men, thus making them even pickier, again reinforcing the bottom 80% of men to desperately go for premium features to increase their chances.
Absolutely disgusting business practices and monopoly that should be regulated if not entirely broken up by governments. They are actively capitalizing on, profiting from, and furthering the loneliness epidemic and are a net negative for a healthy society.
Fantastic episode! I met my wife on tinder so it was fun to listen to. As an investor though my main concern is that the entire purpose of the business model is to not use the business anymore. As soon as I met my wife I deleted tinder and never used it again.
You are in the minority for Tinder's target demo. Tinder's business is to keep you from settling down. MG's other brands focus on settling down. MG knows that with these brands, a successful consumer is one who never has to use it again. However, as long as new generations continue to be born, there will always be a fresh target audience for their brands.
@@waynebruce24893 Okay, so which of their brands are for finding "the one", because since 2016 they all seem to be geared more and more towards being as unusable and ineffective as possible. And I'm saying this as a woman.
15:51 Match Group believes it will be able to increase its penetration over time because its users believe they will be able to increase their penetration over time.
I played with Tinder because I got bored and had nothing to do and met 1 scammer and got ghosted by another(could also be scammer or just not interested). Either way, eh, dating apps are basically just the digital version of matchmakers agency. Which is more interested in not helping you find a partner until they can rake in the max amount of money from you.
Dating apps are pretty much on demand by consumers on a regular basis. It isn’t always the case that people who signed up for these dating apps are seeking for long-term commitments. It can only just be for a ‘hook up’ and that’s it. Keep up the good work on your future videos to come. We will just be here to support you.
The reason why dating apps are having a difficult time infiltrating, and why men despise them and women loathe them, is because your “options” are either fakes and catfishes, people looking only to hook up, or desperate people that aren’t really socially adept at having a romantic relationship. At least that’s my opinion on the heterosexual geared apps. Honestly even if you’re not physically attractive and you aren’t throwing money into a dating app, I think people will respect you more. There’s still a huge stigma around modern dating apps tbh.
Behavioral studies show that people who are presented with a large number of options are less content with their selection as opposed to those who choose between fewer options.
One of the biggest consequences of Tinder and similar apps that focus on optionality is the rise of vain people who are obsessed with vain metrics like the number of matches instead of the quality of matches. Optionality will lead to the rise of narcissism and all kinds of disorders
Best advice for young men in your early twenties: concentrate on your education and career, your health and fitness, your friends and family and your interests and travel. By the time you reach your early thirties, you won't need a dating app.
ehhh thats not really true. if you don't put work into it, you can't really guarantee results. know plenty of people who followed this philosophy and now they're scrambling bc they arent married yet in their 30s
@@spicy_xingerIf you're a decent man in your 30s, the very process of having focused all of your boundless youthful energies on your education and career, your health and fitness, your friends and family and your interests and travel during your 20s will inevitably result in you developing and sustaining a very strong social network from which you will benefit in all sorts of ways for the rest of your life and will make you a very attractive proposition as a potential partner. You will become a "Very Interesting Man" who people will want to know. Alternatively you could spend huge amounts of time on dating apps with exploitative algorithms.
@@spicy_xinger Exactly. Like everyone from every walk of life has an equal opportunity for a relationship to just fall from the ceiling into their lap. 🙄 This is terrible advice.
The real shocker to me is how much IAC still makes from Ask Media Group. That's a lot of money for a product I thought they killed off over a decade ago!
I’ve used these apps on and off for several years and I think they are the type of thing that works for you or it doesn’t because in my experience most of them just suck, they are great for the first few months or year then the steam dies, no matches and ghosting. I’ve asked friends who use them and they’ve had mixed results as well.
@@TommyShlongit does make a difference The secret is to not buy their premium tiers as you quickly become on the hide list as there is no interest anymore to sell to you and also you have much less additional value to profit from
20:30 Unironically, my overall compatibility and match *quality* on Bumble was always way ahead of Tinder. Tinder is great for a quick lay and a night out, but for long-term partners Bumble really takes the cake.
21:00 this is the result of neoliberalism and the deregulation that followed suit: removal of labor rights, stagnant rate of pay as COL has sharply increased even though we are working more than ever, etc. This has been in the main focus of making the rich richer and “trickle down economics” which is still going on and has massively failed the working class - see the wealth gap between the rich and everyone else. This is why people become hyper obsessed with things they do not have much control over even as a collective: stocks, crypto, real estate, and more. This is due to amount of journalism and media focus in hyper individualism and making your own path to become rich after all the average American thinks of themselves as a “temporarily embarrassed millionaire”. This is further compounded by the average job and even college educated ones not giving one an affordable and desirable career, that’s why they turn their heads to things like tech which has shown to be high paying and remote - people look at that first before considering what’s behind the actual job itself, see coding bootcamp burnouts. What’s worse is all these things we want to be obsessed with is fueled by monopoly and cheap borrowing power which manipulates everything so people think it actually is that highly valued when it isn’t at all, see VC-pumped and stock market pumped tech layoffs going on in 2022 once interest rates went up. At the end, this is a structural problem caused by neoliberalism aka free market capitalism and one that won’t be solved by it. Dating apps is a great indicator to see how things have changed for the worst along with the things mentioned at this minute mark, at the end of the day we are in a much worse position than our counterparts from 40-50 years ago were during the golden economic era that was due to regulations and not rewarding bad companies and fraudulent bubbles (dot com, 2008, tech).
Me (m21) tried tinder for a week or so. Tbh I found it super boring. Why should I swipe all .day when I can literally just go to the next coffee shop and have a nice conversation with someone I got a few matches but most women were not my type at all anyway, plus it seemed like it was either me texting them or them ignoring the match. Dating Apps feel like a waste of time tbh …
Man I am really disappointed that you make ads for Masterworks when their business is not nearly as clear as they pretend, and its a really risky thing to invest into art.
I see a lot of people saying that these app “prey” on their users, but it really just sounds like they market to people who have a problem they believe they can solve (aka basically what every single company on the planet does). Is it a perfect solution? Nope, but it definitely has positive outcomes for some people. Just because it didn’t work for you doesn’t mean you’re a victim of some grand scheme to keep you single.
I once heard a rumor (over a decade ago) that they keep the most fitting matches from you to keep you on the site longer and to have you spend more money. If you find someone too soon and leave, they can't keep making money off of you. Again, this is a rumor.
@@BewareTheLilyOfTheValley I can maybe see that being a scheme, but I think I’m still the best judge for who makes a good match or not. You can only account for so much with an algorithm.
@@BewareTheLilyOfTheValley But that makes no sense. If your criteria is limited to age range and distance, the app could only limit what it showed you for attractiveness level based on the apps algorithm of your like % and theirs. But the reality is the app doesn't know the quirks and qualities you find attractive because people are complex. So the theory would be it shows you 50 people, but hides 10? But it just showed you 50 people. And the next day another 50, and then another 50. A free app that is showing you 50 people a day is kinda amazing. I do not buy the idea of bots by these apps either. At some point this just gets into conspiracies.
@@Rudy1150 I believe this was about websites that require profiles, so you're giving a lot more information about what you're looking for, not just going by looks, age, or location. Also, I agree with you, to an extent. I think there's maybe a balancing act going on. Using only my experience with Ok Cupid between the end of 2020, beginning 2021 as a very tiny example, I'd been given a plethora of people to swipe through, of course, but none fully fit the criteria I had set. The person would be close, but something was always off. This is also with me paying about $50 a month for the service for more matches, better visibility, and instantly seeing whomever liked my profile instead of it being a mystery and having to roll the dice on if we both matched. It wasn't until it was clear that they were scraping the bottom of the barrel months later (as in, people that in no way matched what I was looking for), that suddenly someone popped up that finally met all of the criteria I'd been searching for. And their account had existed before my own, so it wasn't a case of them not being on the site until recently at that time. Sadly, things still didn't work out (he was damn close, though...), but while I'm not making conspiracy theories, as I absolutely loathe those, I am just curious as to why the site didn't recommend him from the start, instead of all of those people who were clearly not what I was looking for. However, I also feel that a dating site that just dishes out poor matches would lose customers very quickly, so that's why I wonder if there's a balancing act happening. Don't give the person what they're wanting immediately, but don't pull them along for too long as then they'll become frustrated and leave. Maybe that still counts as a conspiracy, but I look at it as smart business sense, if just looking at it purely from a money-making perspective.
Tinder doesn't even work except for the first day you install it. You get 1-2 matches the first day then after that absolutely nothing. Reset, same thing. 1-3 matches the first day, then nothing.
Everyone needs to stop using online dating apps it’s nothing but a scam it’s nothing but hookup and losing a lot of money just to talk to a bot if you want a relationship you have to go out into the world and find the person of your dreams if you don’t then it’s your loss and you are stuck with talking to a bot
I just joined grinder and recently started dating a femboy. Hes always bottom too 😊 guess im bisexual lol. Never had luck with women on meet me or tinder.
One missed point is that it’s almost exclusively men who pay for these services. Women don’t need to pay for options they already have. An average prime age male gets fewer matches than elderly grandmas on tinder
They're finally running into trouble. They've destroyed the dating market for 80% of men, those men are gradually working that out and are leaving the apps. The question is, are there enough desperate and ill informed average men left to keep the apps going?
Tinder has very odd ban practices, you can be permanently banned and never once told why you're banned. If you're banned from one you're banned from all, yet you're never once told why. It's very easy for people to just get someone banned out of spite with 0 evidence of anything even happening.
The problem with this is only the nobody loves me’s are on these apps. Yikes what can be worse place to look for love? It’s no wonder everyone is complete narcissistic now because it’s perfect market for those with narcissistic tendencies. Lies, self love and me me me place
We don't need more options.
. We need more attention, care and patience to the people in front of us...perfect ending to this well made video
ya incredible quote to end on. so true. too many options too easily is the biggest trap people fall into now
ｙｅｕｐ
This makes me think of Everything, Everywhere, All at Once and how having alternatives in life doesn't necessary make you happier. Endless options can also feel meaningless if you don't know what you need.
imagine putting everything into a bagel
great film tbh
The fundamental problem is that tinder and co lose business if someone goes steady, so everything is optimized for the 'match moment' with little care about what happens after it (the chat tab is for example pushed into the background when it really should be the default tab, and has been buggy for me)
Well its easy to be shallow when you give someone the choices to be shallow. Are we really expecting anything greater from humanity these days?!!?!?! We are fucking animals and that's a huge low blow to Animals.... Plus the Dating App algorithms are all meant to make them money and probably own the limitless supply of Bot accounts running on the online dating sites to make attempts at scamming people or keeping them on the hook in the app just so the company's metrics look good... Notice how hard their customer services are to reach, its for a reason and its not to provide good customer services... People need to hang out more with their friend circles and not be so committed to embellishing your social media world to stroke your egos and vanity.
Online dating companies have workers and departments dedicated to Bot Accounts so that their victimized customers stay on the app talking to fake accounts all while these companies data metrics grow essentially making them that Big Data money....
That's by design. They want you to come back, so why optimize for the things that will make you successful and not come back?
this is the biggest problem with online dating apps that the youtuber introvertedmadness talked about as well. because dating options essentially provide an "infinite" pool of possible partners, people aren't willing to settle for anything that's less than perfect because "perfect has to exist in that infinite pool of possible partners".
People? You mean women. Women who are unwilling to settle in the pursuit of the most perfect man due to their infinite options. They hold all the power on those apps as they get hundreds of matches while the average man can't even get a few.
@@pointblanks nah, men do that just as much if not more than women do. Women are proven to be more willing to settle than men.
@@cryptiddy Not really, it's actually the opposite. Most men are the ones willing to settle as they don't have any options and are thirsty af.
Women have an abundance of options through social media and dating apps. Doesn't work the same way for men.
Not sure what makes you think women have more options than men or aren't thirsty af as well. But you're wrong. Women use dating apps much less than men and women don't consider social media to be for dating either so that "point" is moot. I also just looked into it and there are literally studies that show women are more likely to settle in long-term relationships than men. Cope.
@@cryptiddy Women use dating apps slightly less than men as they have the advantage of getting approached by men in real life. Women don't approach men and don't need to do since it's expected that the man approaches. That's a significant advantage in dating right there.
Now what you take things online, women have a much crazier, absolute advantage. The average woman gets something like 50+ matches compared to the average man's 2 matches. This point is not debatable as it's fact. There's tons of articles and data online confirming this fact and lines up perfectly with what male anecdotes. If this is not common knowledge to you, I'm taken back as you're living in a privileged bubble.
Also, saying women are likely to settle in long-term relationships is true, but doesn't prove how any of your points like how women are thirstier than men. Just because women are likelier to be in a long-term relationship doesn't mean they'll settle for the first decent guy. We don't know what the actual numbers for in-person encounters, but online, women do not settle whatsoever for the first decent guy as they don't have to. Why would they when they have 50 matches within 2 days? The woman's standard for men shoots up higher online where she aims for the the top 10% of men in her inbox. This is why it's recommended that men meet women in real life by getting involved in the community or approaching them as that's the only way of avoiding becoming a number in a random woman's inbox. By the way, it'd be nice that you don't delete any of your comments that I reply to.
Interesting how all those app promos show women; I guess it would not be the right message to show a fella swiping away without a single match for months haha
sad bois 🤣
It would be accurate, but accurate portrayals often make terrible marketing campaigns.
In any dating environment, women are a substantially more valuable asset than men. Many pre-Tinder dating sites' biggest problem was a massively skewed gender imbalance with too many men and not enough women. It's even the same in nightclubs where women will often pay low or no fee at the door to get in, or in swingers clubs where single women are allowed but men have to bring at least 1 woman with them.
Putting women in marketing is a way to signal to men that women use the app too, but also to signal to women that it's something normal women actually do and enjoy.
just join grindr 😏
Agreed the gender dynamics of these apps are v interesting.
that kind sentiment at the end is just a perfect way to wrap up this deep dive and let everyone know what's really important
Agree!
I've never been able to get into dating apps, or any social app really, where the only purpose is to "meet people". At least on traditional social media there are ways to talk and express yourself naturally over time. On dating apps, the interaction feels like it ends at the match moment. It's about as effective at building relationships as it would be to approach people on the street and see if they're open to chatting with you just because you made eye contact.
I just open tinder and it says "nobody here" but you can pay money to see 15 people who apparently liked you. It doesn't even seem free if you can't see everyone.
Most of them are most likely bots, its a real scam
Can't deny that dating apps are great because it gives you option to meet people outside your immediate pool. It made me feel less anxious that I have to find someone within my immediate group, since taking a move within the close groups can sometimes mess up good friendships. But like the video highlighted, the elusion of option definitely can take away time and effort you put in to people you truly interact with or someone next to you at the moment. Always will be a double edged sword.
In a way it's good to be in your pool. I find that online dating has brought me in contact with people from different walks of life that were potentially dangerous to me (felon)
I feel really uncomfortable on dating apps and perform really poorly on them. But it feels so much harder than it used to to meet people in person (I'm not in college anymore, social interaction for everyone is declining before and especially after lockdowns, and dating apps are making people less receptive to meeting in person).
I feel like a hostage to Hinge/Tinder, which haven't even produced success for me anyway. I suspect it's a positive feedback loop-if you're predisposed to not liking it it goes badly, and because it goes badly you dislike it more, ad infinitum.
@@shaq9361 ummm lol, I am? Lots of people (including friends of mine) like dating apps and have had good experiences with them. Feel free to like them yourself, I'm miserable and hate them but that's just me.
The whole "Dating apps suck but there's no irl alternative" thing reminds me of cars and how they affected society. When first brought onto the market, cars were just an optional luxury, as most people lived in small, dense rural communities were walking was always an option. But as cars became more affordable and widespread, it lead to the creation of vast highways and suburbs, with urban planning gradually putting less and less focus on walkability. To the point where cars have basically became mandatory for anyone living outside of a metropolitan downtown area. Similarly dating apps used to just be an optional convenience, but as they became more and more mainstream and central to finding a partner, we're seeing the live events and institutions that were designed to bring people together socially slowly being squeezed out of existence.
For this reason, I honestly see it as a moral and social obligation to not use dating apps.
@@snorpy Yeah I like it, I think the metaphor works pretty well
Counter point: There's virtually no competition in in-person dating. If you are good at introducing yourself, and can get comfortable with some women not being interested, you're a refreshing rarity.
I've done okay in person, but a couple of my friends who've spent more time single have said it's easier than ever.
Sorry app dating isn’t going well for you. It’s a tough dating market for sure.
My strongest recommendation is that you get your dating profile pics rated, probably through a photo assessment app like photofeeler. Since most apps are supremely visual these days, you have to have excellent photos to get your proverbial foot in the door. I’d start by rearranging your photos based on those assessments, and then plan some new photos as well, possibly with a local photographer you can find via social media. I took all my dating apps offline until I lose enough weight to take better photos, my research indicated this is an essential part of the process. Good luck!
The apps have a vested interest for you to not “find the one”. If you do, you stop paying!
I’ve always been curious on how profitable preying on Loneliness would be !I wonder how juicy are there margins?
Edit:Damn that ending was surprisingly heartwarming ! Didn’t expect that from a business channel .
I feel onlyfans is a more direct player in monetising loneliness. Dating apps seem more in the business off filling the gap of boredom and smoothly connecting/meeting people and become another social media almost, just more hyperlocal
@@_thisconnected_ The whole point of dating app is to NOT meet you with your potential match. That would mean losing a customer
@@rrrr2150weird enough, seems true and plausible. If you meet your match, are less 2 people or maybe 3 out of the question, and taking the lack of equal ratio of femme to homme, we can see how...
Tinder has every incentive to HIDE good matches from you. If they show you people with whom you could start a real relationship, they lose both a possible paying customer AND a product/advertisement. And yes, they definitely see women as products.
I got married off Tinder. Going strong 2.5 years. But glad to be out of the toxic dating pool. Goodluck kings.
Same. Been together 6 years, married for 3 of them. Glad to be out of the online dating nightmare!
Tinder success stories are always great, but from their standpoint people who settle into LTRs are "lost forever" as customers. Thus they rig the app in ways that prevents most people from ever finding the right long term connection in order to keep paying users on the platform for as long as possible.
Thanks bro
@@sam510938764 I notice that lot of these success stories are from people who got into Tinder early - people who met several years ago. Back when they needed success stories to get the word out and grow Tinder's user base.
So Tinders model is deliberately broken for the one thing it's supposed to do for consumers.
They turned the love life of users into a bunch of app micro transactions.
When you outsource the “chore” of looking for a partner you accept the risk of it not being done as you’d prefer. There is a price for ease. IMO using apps for dating signals a lack of self respect and also desperation..
@@johniewalker4356 It's a good thing that opinions are like assholes.
under capitalism everything is commodified, even love
@@johniewalker4356 it's a sign of lack of self respect and desperation to you because the apps are purposefully made to be so shitty that a lot of people only use it as a last resort. I find it amazing how people will try and defend billion dollar companies.
@@onesteeltank they are tailored to the human instant gratification mechanism. Their job is to make money not to find your spouse. That’s a byproduct. And if you look closely it’s by in their interest for you to find your soulmate asap. In fact it’s best if you never find them and you stay addicted.
This channel is the perfect mix of financials and rational strategy analysis, love it!
The App Store essentially rejects new and upcoming dating apps since there are "too many" of them. It is basically just helping the incumbents in the space not having to deal with trendy dating apps.
Most of them owned by Match group anyway which is a bit sad when you think about it.
@@nslouka90 My friend got banned because he posted a shirtless gym photo, tried to appeal, didn't work and now he can't use any apps made by Match because they automatically recognize his face and autoban his profiles across their apps. Monopolies suck.
@@Soosss Your friend 100% didn't get banned because of a shirtless gym photo ahah.
If people got banned for that they would loose 20% of their members.
@@lewiswood1693 They probably have automation in place that detects nudity and the likes. Of course such systems are not without flaws and those in the moderation team most likely don't care
@@Soosss bro is banned forever💀
I'm not american and all of this dating stuff is weird for me. I'm not traditional, nor religious. But The whole artificial match never sits well with me.
I've never liked the idea of judging someone based off of looks alone, so Tinder has always been a distasteful app to me, lol. But the sites that request a bio, people are lazy and don't really put effort into them. Maybe I'm the weirdo for looking at it similar to a resumé for a job, but you put effort into a resumé to get that job. I feel if you're going to use a site that asks for a bio, it should be similar. Put your best foot forward so that you can find an equally fitting match.
Don’t worry the company that owns these have different apps all over the world.
@@muhwyndham I can understand that viewpoint to an extent. But I don't want to keep playing roulette with the things I want, lol. I have several things I refuse to budge on with a partner, such as not smoking, minimal (or no) drinking, not wanting or already having children (I do not like children), they must be non-religious as I do not want religious iconography in my home...these things make me VERY far outside of the norm of most people, especially where I live, and that's not even my complete list, lol!
And no, I don't see this as being picky. I would be rich if I had a dollar for every time someone complained to me about their partner over things that could've been resolved if they'd have vetted the person better and known more about themselves and what they want in a relationship. I know what I want and am refusing to compromise, because I know I'll be very unhappy if I do.
I don't like Tinder either, though. But I would much rather there be an option for people to openly say they just want casual sex than to use other dating sites where people want a long-lasting relationship but the other person doesn't. Having multiple dating sites allows for lots of people to find exactly what they're looking for. And it doesn't infringe upon those who want to just bump into their partner, so everyone can still have what they want. It's okay if dating sites aren't your thing, though.
I hate it and i don't wanna go back to it like i don't wanna go back to social media, every aspect of our lives have been commodified
These apps make you pay to feel more lonely then you already are.
This is missing the crucial info that dating apps intentionally discriminate men by matching the bottom 20% of women with the bottom 80% of men, and vice versa. This creates the need for men to purchase premium, otherwise none of the real matches (e.g. the 55% man matching the 52% woman) are even options to them. The top 80% women get the top 20% of men, thus making them even pickier, again reinforcing the bottom 80% of men to desperately go for premium features to increase their chances.
Stop taking sponsorships from masterworks pls :(
Absolutely disgusting business practices and monopoly that should be regulated if not entirely broken up by governments. They are actively capitalizing on, profiting from, and furthering the loneliness epidemic and are a net negative for a healthy society.
Fantastic episode! I met my wife on tinder so it was fun to listen to. As an investor though my main concern is that the entire purpose of the business model is to not use the business anymore. As soon as I met my wife I deleted tinder and never used it again.
You are in the minority for Tinder's target demo. Tinder's business is to keep you from settling down. MG's other brands focus on settling down. MG knows that with these brands, a successful consumer is one who never has to use it again. However, as long as new generations continue to be born, there will always be a fresh target audience for their brands.
@@waynebruce24893 Okay, so which of their brands are for finding "the one", because since 2016 they all seem to be geared more and more towards being as unusable and ineffective as possible. And I'm saying this as a woman.
15:51 Match Group believes it will be able to increase its penetration over time because its users believe they will be able to increase their penetration over time.
(☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞
I too snorted at his choice of words there 😅
So excited for this!! Great industry to dive into, given the predatory nature of the service (even though their marketing is incredible)
I met my wife on Tinder years ago before these apps turned into what they are today. The thought of using these apps sounds so fatiguing.
I bought a year of tinder platinum and then got banned like a week later. No explanation. No appeals process. No refunds.
They tried buying the Muslim marriage/dating app Muzmatch, and when they refused to sell to them they sued Muzmatch for "copying" their app.
Usually Modern MBA is quite unemotional and impersonal, but the ending to this clip showed a bit of his personality. :)
I think you are right, sir.
I played with Tinder because I got bored and had nothing to do and met 1 scammer and got ghosted by another(could also be scammer or just not interested). Either way, eh, dating apps are basically just the digital version of matchmakers agency. Which is more interested in not helping you find a partner until they can rake in the max amount of money from you.
📲Undivided attention is what we all long for.
Elo rating system 10:25
Gamification and optionality
Dating apps are pretty much on demand by consumers on a regular basis. It isn’t always the case that people who signed up for these dating apps are seeking for long-term commitments. It can only just be for a ‘hook up’ and that’s it. Keep up the good work on your future videos to come. We will just be here to support you.
The reason why dating apps are having a difficult time infiltrating, and why men despise them and women loathe them, is because your “options” are either fakes and catfishes, people looking only to hook up, or desperate people that aren’t really socially adept at having a romantic relationship. At least that’s my opinion on the heterosexual geared apps. Honestly even if you’re not physically attractive and you aren’t throwing money into a dating app, I think people will respect you more. There’s still a huge stigma around modern dating apps tbh.
I’m so glad this channel exists, another great video topic
Behavioral studies show that people who are presented with a large number of options are less content with their selection as opposed to those who choose between fewer options.
I think everything will be gamified eventually. Even UA-cam on its app will become a kind of ranking game.
Hello how are you
Im from the philippines
Online dating is pathetic.
One of the biggest consequences of Tinder and similar apps that focus on optionality is the rise of vain people who are obsessed with vain metrics like the number of matches instead of the quality of matches. Optionality will lead to the rise of narcissism and all kinds of disorders
my dating app filter: if they're subscribed to modern MBA
15:54 "match group believes it can increase its penetration over time" so they're just like an average user on their platforms
Best advice for young men in your early twenties: concentrate on your education and career, your health and fitness, your friends and family and your interests and travel. By the time you reach your early thirties, you won't need a dating app.
Or just stop worrying about dating literally I don’t understand the appeal of trying so hard
best advice for young men in your early twenties: just be silly and nice
ehhh thats not really true. if you don't put work into it, you can't really guarantee results. know plenty of people who followed this philosophy and now they're scrambling bc they arent married yet in their 30s
@@spicy_xingerIf you're a decent man in your 30s, the very process of having focused all of your boundless youthful energies on your education and career, your health and fitness, your friends and family and your interests and travel during your 20s will inevitably result in you developing and sustaining a very strong social network from which you will benefit in all sorts of ways for the rest of your life and will make you a very attractive proposition as a potential partner. You will become a "Very Interesting Man" who people will want to know.
Alternatively you could spend huge amounts of time on dating apps with exploitative algorithms.
@@spicy_xinger Exactly. Like everyone from every walk of life has an equal opportunity for a relationship to just fall from the ceiling into their lap. 🙄 This is terrible advice.
The real shocker to me is how much IAC still makes from Ask Media Group. That's a lot of money for a product I thought they killed off over a decade ago!
New suckers are born every minute
I hope this video is transparent about how these corporate dating app algorithms prey upon lonely men particularly for their market
Hopefully
I don’t think they do that. That sounds sinister. Why do you think that?
@@Nohandleentered why do you think they won't? the concept of match dating itself is super weird for me. It's artificial, and stupid.
Watch the whole video before commenting you embarrassing /b/tards
Lol
I’ve used these apps on and off for several years and I think they are the type of thing that works for you or it doesn’t because in my experience most of them just suck, they are great for the first few months or year then the steam dies, no matches and ghosting. I’ve asked friends who use them and they’ve had mixed results as well.
I wonder if deleting your account and creating a new one would make a difference, at least for a while.
@@TommyShlongit does make a difference
The secret is to not buy their premium tiers as you quickly become on the hide list as there is no interest anymore to sell to you and also you have much less additional value to profit from
"dating" apps have nearly destroyed modern dating
why destroyed? it´s just a new way of dating
Completely destroyed
Actually, I don't apply for multiple jobs at once. I apply for fewer jobs that I believe I would do well in. Money is secondary for me.
One of the best channels on UA-cam. Thank you for another informative video!
that last sentence was gold.👌
20:30 Unironically, my overall compatibility and match *quality* on Bumble was always way ahead of Tinder. Tinder is great for a quick lay and a night out, but for long-term partners Bumble really takes the cake.
Hello how are you
Im from the philippines
@@michellesedigo6031 Please try harder with the spam accounts, Pajeet
@@patrickpaterson8785 how
@@patrickpaterson8785 Mfer said "how". 😂
Was not expecting that ending. Damnnn.
21:00 this is the result of neoliberalism and the deregulation that followed suit: removal of labor rights, stagnant rate of pay as COL has sharply increased even though we are working more than ever, etc. This has been in the main focus of making the rich richer and “trickle down economics” which is still going on and has massively failed the working class - see the wealth gap between the rich and everyone else.
This is why people become hyper obsessed with things they do not have much control over even as a collective: stocks, crypto, real estate, and more. This is due to amount of journalism and media focus in hyper individualism and making your own path to become rich after all the average American thinks of themselves as a “temporarily embarrassed millionaire”. This is further compounded by the average job and even college educated ones not giving one an affordable and desirable career, that’s why they turn their heads to things like tech which has shown to be high paying and remote - people look at that first before considering what’s behind the actual job itself, see coding bootcamp burnouts. What’s worse is all these things we want to be obsessed with is fueled by monopoly and cheap borrowing power which manipulates everything so people think it actually is that highly valued when it isn’t at all, see VC-pumped and stock market pumped tech layoffs going on in 2022 once interest rates went up.
At the end, this is a structural problem caused by neoliberalism aka free market capitalism and one that won’t be solved by it. Dating apps is a great indicator to see how things have changed for the worst along with the things mentioned at this minute mark, at the end of the day we are in a much worse position than our counterparts from 40-50 years ago were during the golden economic era that was due to regulations and not rewarding bad companies and fraudulent bubbles (dot com, 2008, tech).
Most underrated comment on here
This is so dystopian lol
Me (m21) tried tinder for a week or so. Tbh I found it super boring. Why should I swipe all .day when I can literally just go to the next coffee shop and have a nice conversation with someone
I got a few matches but most women were not my type at all anyway, plus it seemed like it was either me texting them or them ignoring the match. Dating Apps feel like a waste of time tbh …
Where is there a club with the cover and drinks for only $20? :0
Lovely video with a touching end.
17:40 again another wrong point - what’s good about a >3:1 male to female gender ratio? That’s not strong whatsoever
The closing statement was truly Words of Wisdom we should all reflect upon. Bravo
Love how your videos do such a nice deep dive
according to Google there are 1500 dating apps. Let that sink in.
I think most have very few members and were just slapped together to make some money
I’m letting it sink in. Very underwhelming
That ad was grossly embedded in this video.
Fantastic video! I think everyone can sense that this is wrong, just from hearing you list the facts. Thanks for spreading the knowledge that we need
Man I am really disappointed that you make ads for Masterworks when their business is not nearly as clear as they pretend, and its a really risky thing to invest into art.
I was offended by how the ad was portrayed like it’s just part of the video
Very great breakdown. Thanks for always putting out quality content.
Your content is excellent. I really hope to see those sub numbers rapidly growing for you. Thank you for your hard work
Phenomenal as always, keep it up!
Can you do more videos on modern business hidden in plain sights?
Stop shilling masterworks
Love your ideological take at the end, the truest truism of our current society
I see a lot of people saying that these app “prey” on their users, but it really just sounds like they market to people who have a problem they believe they can solve (aka basically what every single company on the planet does). Is it a perfect solution? Nope, but it definitely has positive outcomes for some people. Just because it didn’t work for you doesn’t mean you’re a victim of some grand scheme to keep you single.
agreed, it’s an easy cop out to say that, but these apps are largely what you make of them
I once heard a rumor (over a decade ago) that they keep the most fitting matches from you to keep you on the site longer and to have you spend more money. If you find someone too soon and leave, they can't keep making money off of you. Again, this is a rumor.
@@BewareTheLilyOfTheValley I can maybe see that being a scheme, but I think I’m still the best judge for who makes a good match or not. You can only account for so much with an algorithm.
@@BewareTheLilyOfTheValley But that makes no sense. If your criteria is limited to age range and distance, the app could only limit what it showed you for attractiveness level based on the apps algorithm of your like % and theirs. But the reality is the app doesn't know the quirks and qualities you find attractive because people are complex. So the theory would be it shows you 50 people, but hides 10? But it just showed you 50 people. And the next day another 50, and then another 50.
A free app that is showing you 50 people a day is kinda amazing. I do not buy the idea of bots by these apps either. At some point this just gets into conspiracies.
@@Rudy1150 I believe this was about websites that require profiles, so you're giving a lot more information about what you're looking for, not just going by looks, age, or location. Also, I agree with you, to an extent. I think there's maybe a balancing act going on. Using only my experience with Ok Cupid between the end of 2020, beginning 2021 as a very tiny example, I'd been given a plethora of people to swipe through, of course, but none fully fit the criteria I had set. The person would be close, but something was always off. This is also with me paying about $50 a month for the service for more matches, better visibility, and instantly seeing whomever liked my profile instead of it being a mystery and having to roll the dice on if we both matched.
It wasn't until it was clear that they were scraping the bottom of the barrel months later (as in, people that in no way matched what I was looking for), that suddenly someone popped up that finally met all of the criteria I'd been searching for. And their account had existed before my own, so it wasn't a case of them not being on the site until recently at that time. Sadly, things still didn't work out (he was damn close, though...), but while I'm not making conspiracy theories, as I absolutely loathe those, I am just curious as to why the site didn't recommend him from the start, instead of all of those people who were clearly not what I was looking for.
However, I also feel that a dating site that just dishes out poor matches would lose customers very quickly, so that's why I wonder if there's a balancing act happening. Don't give the person what they're wanting immediately, but don't pull them along for too long as then they'll become frustrated and leave. Maybe that still counts as a conspiracy, but I look at it as smart business sense, if just looking at it purely from a money-making perspective.
i think that people are still figuring out how much algorithms and design have an impact on them
Tinder doesn't even work except for the first day you install it. You get 1-2 matches the first day then after that absolutely nothing. Reset, same thing. 1-3 matches the first day, then nothing.
i LITERALLY BURST out LAUGHING when he mentioned that TINDER HAD ELO 😭😭😭🤚 hoool UP
Everyone needs to stop using online dating apps it’s nothing but a scam it’s nothing but hookup and losing a lot of money just to talk to a bot if you want a relationship you have to go out into the world and find the person of your dreams if you don’t then it’s your loss and you are stuck with talking to a bot
Great video
Favorite channel at the moment
The goat has uploaded once again, great video!!
Not gonna lie I feel like these dating apps are not really trying to get you a date and great video man :]
I just joined grinder and recently started dating a femboy. Hes always bottom too 😊 guess im bisexual lol. Never had luck with women on meet me or tinder.
Very insightful. Thanks for sharing!
One missed point is that it’s almost exclusively men who pay for these services. Women don’t need to pay for options they already have. An average prime age male gets fewer matches than elderly grandmas on tinder
Thank you!! Super interesting... well made : )
Can I get access to the Slides you are using in this Video ?
GOOD CONTENT, a suggestion, use some background music will make the lengthy video less dry
Eating ice cream and watching Netflix alone on the coach at home sounds fantastic to me ;)
It is
But after some time gets boring
I got off apps long time ago. Waste of my time and attention.
So sad that you did not include the ratio of likes recieved of females vs males or something like that..
Dating apps would have to be one of the most utterly depressing manifestations of modernity.
10:00 Sedgewick's Princeton Course on Algorithms
This was a really interesting video. I love your channel.
@5:38. There was no internet in the 80's.
They're finally running into trouble. They've destroyed the dating market for 80% of men, those men are gradually working that out and are leaving the apps. The question is, are there enough desperate and ill informed average men left to keep the apps going?
Tinder has very odd ban practices, you can be permanently banned and never once told why you're banned. If you're banned from one you're banned from all, yet you're never once told why. It's very easy for people to just get someone banned out of spite with 0 evidence of anything even happening.
This is very common for transgender users apparently.
I’m gonna make a video about this
Love from India excited
good work
Me watching this video at home while eating ice cream. Ouch...maybe 😅
Down only $20? Thats unrealistic 1:22 more like $50 minimum
amazing video
Thank you
The problem with this is only the nobody loves me’s are on these apps. Yikes what can be worse place to look for love? It’s no wonder everyone is complete narcissistic now because it’s perfect market for those with narcissistic tendencies. Lies, self love and me me me place
i love this guy..