Thanks mate, glad you’re enjoying them! Yeah the reef factory interface is setting the standard currently. Nothing else seems to come close for user experience
Purchased this a week ago after seeing the video. What a game changer! Especially that I’ve already been dosing aquaforest components pro. Now I can go on holiday stress free! Never knew there was an alternative to Apex. Thanks Sam! Hopefully they introduce a mag and calcium tester/dower although it’s probably not as necessary now.
Ok hands down this is probably one of the best software interfaces i have seen. The logic and features are incredible! Someone had their thinking cap on when this was developed. Import export your settings for dosing pumps, easy modify all with a few changes, no sitting for hours sorting dosing schedules, the actions integration is so good. One feature i am after is using the Ph reading from the tester to drive an action, so add kalk instead of alk calc at times to bring Ph up. Id also like to see a ramp up dosing schedule , eg introduction of nitrate dosing or carbon dosing etc. i know theres a Ph tester but its $$$ and would love to not buy new ph probes on the double.
That sounds like a great addition to the software!! I know the ph reference for alk testers is usually a touch low due to the reagent residue, but you could factor that into the action
Your LFS where you got the gear will be able to get you a replacement probe when you need it, otherwise reach out to my friends at Aquaristic Online who sponsored the video as I know they can supply too. As for replacement time frame, I’d need to double check - but I’d replace every 12-18 months as a maintenance item
Reef factory are really making waves in the industry (pardon the pun) very excited for more updates on their recently announced Smart Tester and Chemical Products!
Brilliant video. I'm running Triton method an its working REALLY well, and wanted to Know if the KH keeper did this or not, and you've answered my question! Thank you so much!!!
This way the actions can have more control over the outcome. If I had it split across 24 doses, I would need to make the percentage differences much greater
Awesome video! Love to see honest reviews of new equipment. What Alk,Mag,Cal do you use and how did you get the strengths different so you can dose equal parts?
Some of the programs are designed to be dosed equally. But if the one you are using is not, simply water the strong component down with RODI to get the desired strength for equal dosages :)
I did not know this was possible with the Reef Factory kit! The logic seems a lot easier than the GHL stuff and I'm not sure this level of logic is even possible with just a KH Director and a doser. Reef Factory seems to be a lot easier to get your hands on also.
Ok handy hint if anyone buys this, go into settings and set mixing to high, its medium by default. I was static testing and seeing .3 to .4 swings. Changed to high and now .1 .2 .
@@ParkersReef - i have a high sps to water ratio so my alk use doubles from 1pm to 6pm then drops right down, its amazing to see the uptake and without the kh keeper with doser actions id have some pretty big swings over a day. Now im within 0.4 max min.
yeah it sure did (and still does). The ability to add in your calcium and magnesium is the real bonus here, lots of alkalinity testers and dosers out there but not many can do other things like this
My saltwater middle pump had issues turning , so i took the pump off and spun it with my finger, the popped it back on. It came good but is pretty noisy , maybe it will settle down. And no scales in mine which was annoying, i was able to work out mls with a 1m salifert dropper, so see how we go.
Yeah sometimes the pump heads can get a bit stiff in shipping. Once it softens the tubing up it should quieten down. Ah that’s a bummer about no scales in yours?! They’re really handy
@@ParkersReef - yeh i might calibrate it after it softens up. Running a week in static water first to see how accurate and let it settle. Maybe they will send me some when i order their new tester when it comes out, any ideas when they are releasing ?
Hey Sam. Technical question if I may. How often do you normally need to replace PH and Salinity probes? Reeffactory recommend replacing theirs every 12 months and the probes are expensive compared to a new unit. Can't find anything concrete on how often the Apex's probs need to be replaced. Any thoughts on how long they should last?
I have used (suffered is the correct word) the GHL KH Director for 2 years, the Trident for another 2 (quite happy except for the reagent cost) and now the Alkatronic+Dosetronic+Mastertronic. Excited to see what you have to say about this Reef Factory combo!
very nice! doesn't this assume the dose you have at ur desired setting is accurate? what if 100ml is accurate (what the aquarium needs) but you have the dose set to 80ml then this system will always be hunting. I wonder if there is a method to find the optimal dose, or maybe it doesn't matter?
Then your KH will rise and your actions will reduce the dosage :) But yes, I recommend manually achieving results for a week or two first, then applying the automations
@@ParkersReef I think I figured it out... if the automation is always oscillating between reducing the dosage and the initial setting (hunting), then you have to reduce the initial setting until it stabilizes...
@@ParkersReef well... hunting means it's going up and down rather than stable. Maybe since you have an edge in you could tell them to build in a simple algorithm that would increase or lower the dose so it zeros in on the number rather than hunt 🙂
Hi Sam, do you know if you can have a dosing pump replace the dosing water ? Id like to put back exactly what i took out with fresh saltwater. However i can only do it manually by guesswork. But if i change the dosing or it does a re-measurement , then its out of balance. Id also like to have the RO topoff not replace the saltwater. Be great if they put an option in. This unit uses a fair bit of water per test.
yeah good suggestion. You can feed the test water back into the sump as another option, but I'll give the team at Reef Factory a nudge (after Interzoo) to see if they can add this to their action options
If your kh dropped it likely means that your corals consumed it and therefore consumed cal and mag as well meaning that you can dose the proportional amount required to keep all 3 stable based off the alk result
Hey Sam Think I’m going to go with this on my Red Sea XL 300. Can’t justify some of the other controllers. Don’t think it will work with my ReefDose 4 ? If I’m using Triton Method would I buy the Reef-factory 4 head dose?
some sort of alkalinity tester would be highly recommended yes. The fact that you can then automate your dosing based off that so easily with reef factory makes it a strong candidate :)
I was looking at the kh keeper but then seen you had a vid on the khg and went and brought one now you have this unit and does all three from reading off 1 reading 🤦♂️ Might have to change and haven’t even setup the khg
KHG is a solid unit, I still run one on my main display, you won’t be disappointed. KH keeper is a bit more expensive but does have a much more modern interface and capabilities
Hey sam ! Thanks for everything Would you still recommend it ? And is it still accurate and doing well the kh keeper plus ? Would you consider it getting a close range to the icp test ? Hows the automation dosing going with you until now ! Many thaaaaanks Best wishes ,
Very nice. I am newbie in the reef (about 8 months). could you please help me to understand one point. Is there some direct relation between Kh going up and down and dosing the magnesium and calcium? Is there some logic like if Alkalinity goes down automatically it decrease also calcium by some %? For example - I test Kh (until now) manually every second day and Calcium once a week, but it do not change in the same proportion all the time. many hanks for your kind explining d.
Sure! Usually, alkalinity going down is a sign of coral consumption. If corals are consuming alkalinity, they should be consuming calcium and magnesium too
@@ParkersReef I see. :-) many thanks. But the ratio between Kh and Cal and Mag, needs to be watched for some time in each tank, before to set up some automatic dosing, correct? I guess there is not some thumb rule eg to 0,5 Alkalinity down = 0,1 of Mag or Cal? Or would should I try maybe the ratio you use in the video and then measure it few weeks to confirm/update?
@@ParkersReef Im super impressed as i can now base my triton dosing on KH, and tune it slightly ask alk is used slightly more. Only downside was my internet dropped at one point which meant actions were not taking place, yet wireless was fine, so that side is cloudside only, if they can fix that part ill be stoked. With $1000s of dollars at stake the inability to have actions take place is concerning, so much so i think i will get a 4G backup link. If their cloud has issues then what ? Dosing still doses just not action based stuff, which will be pretty import as more of their equipment becomes available.
Hi Sam, I’m in the market to buy a monitoring / automation system for my reef tank. My options are Neptune Apex or Reef Factory. What are your thoughts or recommendations as you’ve used both.
I’m in Sydney. I’ve seen a few of your videos on the Reef Factory and I’m on the fence to which direction I should travel. I don’t want to make the expensive move then have to change half way through.
Yeah ok, well, in Sydney - forget about Neptune. The hardware is very difficult to buy, often resulting in grey imports. Then you are at the mercy of their Trident reagents (not to mention how expensive the system is here). I'd go either KH Guardian or Reef Factory depending on if you want an alkalinity tester, or more than that
Reef factory had lots off issues with the KH keeper . Forums in Uk and Europe, full off all the early issues on first 2 version, hopefully latest version is a lot better . No way I would trust it to auto dose for me , having seen all the issues over last year plus
Am I right in assuming that this combination is the same as the KH Keeper Pro? Initially I was thinking the Pro did testing of Calcium and Magnesium but re-reading the details on their website it seems it is the same. Now I know why Billy and David were trying to talk me into the 3x doser instead of the single. D'oh!! 🤦♂️
Reef Factory, it is just another walled garden which doesn't make sense....fragmentation is not what we need in the hobby as no one will be brand loyal down to every last piece of equipment IMO. Also, there is a fatal flaw with Reef Factory as it has NO wired communication between its devices. All the devices rely only on Wifi to transmit data....god forbid you're in the middle of a dosing cycle and lose wifi....I don't see them lasting very long here as their equipment is cheaply made overseas in China while their software is made in Poland...they don't have dedicated customer support in the US which will make it really hard to support...also, no one is carrying their line willingly...Reef Factory got desperate and now providing a 60 day payment term and if you don't want it after 60 days, it can be returned...its why Champion and other small "distributors" only picked it up...I'd stay far away from them
This was exactly what I needed to see to make a decision. Much appreciated!
My pleasure! Thanks for watching ☺️
Wow that interface looks extremely user friendly.. great job reef factory and Also big thanks to Sam and aquaristic for these great buyer/tutorials..
Thanks mate, glad you’re enjoying them! Yeah the reef factory interface is setting the standard currently. Nothing else seems to come close for user experience
Ok I'm sold. Going all in Reef Factory
I think you’ll be quite pleased! But remember, with Reef Factory - you only buy the components you need :)
Amazing video, very clear and comprehensive!
Just what I was looking for to decide if I should buy this sistem.
Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Purchased this a week ago after seeing the video. What a game changer! Especially that I’ve already been dosing aquaforest components pro. Now I can go on holiday stress free! Never knew there was an alternative to Apex. Thanks Sam! Hopefully they introduce a mag and calcium tester/dower although it’s probably not as necessary now.
Sensational!! Enjoy it
Wow thats awesome , can i get your instangram if possible to have some inquiries about it , i would be thankful 🙏
Great little gadget, thanks Sam!
Yeah it’s a beaut!
Ok hands down this is probably one of the best software interfaces i have seen. The logic and features are incredible! Someone had their thinking cap on when this was developed. Import export your settings for dosing pumps, easy modify all with a few changes, no sitting for hours sorting dosing schedules, the actions integration is so good. One feature i am after is using the Ph reading from the tester to drive an action, so add kalk instead of alk calc at times to bring Ph up. Id also like to see a ramp up dosing schedule , eg introduction of nitrate dosing or carbon dosing etc. i know theres a Ph tester but its $$$ and would love to not buy new ph probes on the double.
That sounds like a great addition to the software!! I know the ph reference for alk testers is usually a touch low due to the reagent residue, but you could factor that into the action
Just splashed out on both! This is a game changer! Cant wait to dial it all in and do away with worry about balancing and adjusting
I am certain you will love it!
@@ParkersReef - question is where do i get a ph probe when its time to replace ?
Your LFS where you got the gear will be able to get you a replacement probe when you need it, otherwise reach out to my friends at Aquaristic Online who sponsored the video as I know they can supply too.
As for replacement time frame, I’d need to double check - but I’d replace every 12-18 months as a maintenance item
Reef factory are really making waves in the industry (pardon the pun) very excited for more updates on their recently announced Smart Tester and Chemical Products!
You can rest assure you will hear the info right here as soon as it is cleared to share :)
Yep im hanging on for nitrate and phosphate control ca and mag are a bonus
Absolutely
Looking forward to watching this. Team reef factory FTW
It’s a great ecosystem!!
Nice work Sam. Love the new intro 👌
Cheers mate!
Awesome video, great explanations. Many thanks.
You are welcome!
Thank for the upload as always
My pleasure, thanks for watching!
Brilliant video. I'm running Triton method an its working REALLY well, and wanted to Know if the KH keeper did this or not, and you've answered my question! Thank you so much!!!
No trouble at all! Glad I could help :)
Amazing products!
Absolutely!
Nice - Not only is there software incredible but the hardware seems to be lasting and I don't hear about reefers who don't love their products
It's certainly making a splash on the scene that is for sure!
great vid and loads of great info buddy
Thanks mate, appreciate your support as always 👍
Love your channel bro!
Why are you set the dosing pump to 4 times a day, don't you prefer to dose more to reduce spikes?
This way the actions can have more control over the outcome.
If I had it split across 24 doses, I would need to make the percentage differences much greater
Great video, looking forward to the reef factory smart tester as an option! 👌
you and me both!
Awesome video! Love to see honest reviews of new equipment. What Alk,Mag,Cal do you use and how did you get the strengths different so you can dose equal parts?
Some of the programs are designed to be dosed equally. But if the one you are using is not, simply water the strong component down with RODI to get the desired strength for equal dosages :)
I did not know this was possible with the Reef Factory kit! The logic seems a lot easier than the GHL stuff and I'm not sure this level of logic is even possible with just a KH Director and a doser. Reef Factory seems to be a lot easier to get your hands on also.
It is very simple to use and more importantly, incredibly powerful!
Exciting to see this! 😁🐶
Won’t be long!!
@@ParkersReef I just woke up, gonna watch it soon 🥰
Enjoy!!
@@ParkersReef great video as always mr Parker my frend 🥰🐶
Ok handy hint if anyone buys this, go into settings and set mixing to high, its medium by default. I was static testing and seeing .3 to .4 swings. Changed to high and now .1 .2 .
Nice tip!!
Might be just my unit, going to recalibrate and see if we can get it tighter, what were u seeing on your review ? I didnt see your readings
My unit is remaining very consistent. Keeping within 0.15dkh throughout the day 👌🏻
@@ParkersReef - i have a high sps to water ratio so my alk use doubles from 1pm to 6pm then drops right down, its amazing to see the uptake and without the kh keeper with doser actions id have some pretty big swings over a day. Now im within 0.4 max min.
i'll check them out
the white tail i got that we talked about arrived in QT today! 3 more weeks!!!!
sensational!!!
Great news is that reef factory are working on securing SSID for the hotspot :) hopefully not too long :)
Ah sensational news!!
Parker did this equipment keep your DKH stable? would you recommend it?
yeah it sure did (and still does). The ability to add in your calcium and magnesium is the real bonus here, lots of alkalinity testers and dosers out there but not many can do other things like this
Your dashboard shows TDS at 1ppm. What is it actually testing and where is it hooked up? RODI unit and not the tank obviously??
RODI :)
My saltwater middle pump had issues turning , so i took the pump off and spun it with my finger, the popped it back on. It came good but is pretty noisy , maybe it will settle down. And no scales in mine which was annoying, i was able to work out mls with a 1m salifert dropper, so see how we go.
Yeah sometimes the pump heads can get a bit stiff in shipping. Once it softens the tubing up it should quieten down.
Ah that’s a bummer about no scales in yours?! They’re really handy
@@ParkersReef - yeh i might calibrate it after it softens up. Running a week in static water first to see how accurate and let it settle. Maybe they will send me some when i order their new tester when it comes out, any ideas when they are releasing ?
I am hoping to hear (and share on the channel!) some inside news soon :)
Hi Sam, how do the running costs of the regents compare to Neptune Trident. Taking into account that the reef factory is only testing Alk.
considerably cheaper than the trident, plus reagents are much more accessible here than the trident (in Australia anyway)
Hey Sam. Technical question if I may. How often do you normally need to replace PH and Salinity probes? Reeffactory recommend replacing theirs every 12 months and the probes are expensive compared to a new unit. Can't find anything concrete on how often the Apex's probs need to be replaced. Any thoughts on how long they should last?
If you keep the probes well maintained I think you’ll get double that life out of them. I couldn’t say how long apex probes last unfortunately
I have used (suffered is the correct word) the GHL KH Director for 2 years, the Trident for another 2 (quite happy except for the reagent cost) and now the Alkatronic+Dosetronic+Mastertronic. Excited to see what you have to say about this Reef Factory combo!
I hear you mate. This may just be the change you need :)
very nice! doesn't this assume the dose you have at ur desired setting is accurate? what if 100ml is accurate (what the aquarium needs) but you have the dose set to 80ml then this system will always be hunting. I wonder if there is a method to find the optimal dose, or maybe it doesn't matter?
Then your KH will rise and your actions will reduce the dosage :)
But yes, I recommend manually achieving results for a week or two first, then applying the automations
@@ParkersReef I think I figured it out... if the automation is always oscillating between reducing the dosage and the initial setting (hunting), then you have to reduce the initial setting until it stabilizes...
that's correct. Although it will self manage that to a degree :)
@@ParkersReef well... hunting means it's going up and down rather than stable. Maybe since you have an edge in you could tell them to build in a simple algorithm that would increase or lower the dose so it zeros in on the number rather than hunt 🙂
Hi Sam, do you know if you can have a dosing pump replace the dosing water ? Id like to put back exactly what i took out with fresh saltwater. However i can only do it manually by guesswork. But if i change the dosing or it does a re-measurement , then its out of balance. Id also like to have the RO topoff not replace the saltwater. Be great if they put an option in. This unit uses a fair bit of water per test.
yeah good suggestion. You can feed the test water back into the sump as another option, but I'll give the team at Reef Factory a nudge (after Interzoo) to see if they can add this to their action options
@@ParkersReef - ah legend, al let me know when you have access to the new smart tester, so keen on that.
Nice video but my question is your only testing kh why adjust calcium and mag dosing based off kh testing value ?
If your kh dropped it likely means that your corals consumed it and therefore consumed cal and mag as well meaning that you can dose the proportional amount required to keep all 3 stable based off the alk result
Spot on 👌🏻
That makes sense but not always the case imo
Great unit hopefully they bring out an auto mag and calcium tester to !
It’s in the works. Plus nitrate and phosphate :)
Hi Sam, do you know if the KH Keeper Plus is compatible / useable with any doser (e.g. Kamoer) or can you only use the Reef Factory doses? Ta
only reef factory losers mate
@@ParkersReef ta thanks Sam
Awesome 👏
Thanks for watching!
Hey Sam Think I’m going to go with this on my Red Sea XL 300. Can’t justify some of the other controllers. Don’t think it will work with my ReefDose 4 ? If I’m using Triton Method would I buy the Reef-factory 4 head dose?
yeah it wont connect with your reef dose sadly. Yes you can buy the reef factory dosing pumps in single, triple or four headed versions.
Hey Sam, planning on having an sps dominated tank similar to yours, do you think that this added stability is worth the price point?
some sort of alkalinity tester would be highly recommended yes. The fact that you can then automate your dosing based off that so easily with reef factory makes it a strong candidate :)
Do the settings stay when theres no internets ? I would presume so but double checking
Certainly! Your actions continue to operate as per normal and you also get a message informing you of connection loss
@@ParkersReef - phew , was worried for a sec. thanks for clearing that up.
Pleasure 👍🏻
Definitely hope to see this in the North American market soon. I heard Q4 of 2021, but that seems to have not been accurate
I have heard !4 of 2022, hopefully that is still a chance!
can you set this up in conjunction with a calcium reactor
Absolutely can! You can use the large dosing pump on a calcium reactor, but unfortunately it can only dose once every hour
If Wi-Fi goes down is this automation effected?
nope - all stored locally. No interruption
Props a dumb question but if only testing kh how do u know it’s dosing correct amount of mag and cal ?
It’s still a guess, it you base the consumption of magnesium and calcium off the consumption of alkalinity.
Not an exact science, but very close
Cheers, about to start my journey into marine tanks, just ordered my cade 900
After 1 year how is going whit RF kh keeper and pumps , u still say its good and worth it ? Best regards
yeah still using and still finding it to be a fantastic piece of equipment!
@@ParkersReef awesome thnx
Pleasure 👍🏻
I was looking at the kh keeper but then seen you had a vid on the khg and went and brought one now you have this unit and does all three from reading off 1 reading 🤦♂️ Might have to change and haven’t even setup the khg
KHG is a solid unit, I still run one on my main display, you won’t be disappointed.
KH keeper is a bit more expensive but does have a much more modern interface and capabilities
could you accidentally overdose calcium and magnesium based off of that?
It’s possible, so you should always do a manual test now and then to check things are on track
Hey sam ! Thanks for everything
Would you still recommend it ? And is it still accurate and doing well the kh keeper plus ? Would you consider it getting a close range to the icp test ? Hows the automation dosing going with you until now !
Many thaaaaanks
Best wishes ,
It’s a great combo! There are a few alternatives out there these days to compare against, but the reef factory combo is still right up there
@@ParkersReefawesome !! Which combos would you still recommend out there ? 😁👍👍
Check out the focustronic gear as well, they are capable of this type of automation. The Kamoer KH Carer I believe can too
Very nice. I am newbie in the reef (about 8 months). could you please help me to understand one point. Is there some direct relation between Kh going up and down and dosing the magnesium and calcium? Is there some logic like if Alkalinity goes down automatically it decrease also calcium by some %? For example - I test Kh (until now) manually every second day and Calcium once a week, but it do not change in the same proportion all the time. many hanks for your kind explining d.
Sure! Usually, alkalinity going down is a sign of coral consumption. If corals are consuming alkalinity, they should be consuming calcium and magnesium too
@@ParkersReef I see. :-) many thanks. But the ratio between Kh and Cal and Mag, needs to be watched for some time in each tank, before to set up some automatic dosing, correct? I guess there is not some thumb rule eg to 0,5 Alkalinity down = 0,1 of Mag or Cal? Or would should I try maybe the ratio you use in the video and then measure it few weeks to confirm/update?
yeah certainly best to get a feel for what your tank is doing first. Then you should get a ballpark ratio to work with from there
Anyone else out there running this setup? Im three weeks in and have used Sams setup here, however i went with 8 rules, so 25%, 50% , 75 % , 100% etc.
Nice work. How is it going for you?
@@ParkersReef Im super impressed as i can now base my triton dosing on KH, and tune it slightly ask alk is used slightly more. Only downside was my internet dropped at one point which meant actions were not taking place, yet wireless was fine, so that side is cloudside only, if they can fix that part ill be stoked. With $1000s of dollars at stake the inability to have actions take place is concerning, so much so i think i will get a 4G backup link. If their cloud has issues then what ? Dosing still doses just not action based stuff, which will be pretty import as more of their equipment becomes available.
@@jestronixhanderson9898 interesting. I was under the impression that actions were stored locally… I’ll follow this up with Reef Factory
reef factory is not available in the usa
I am certain it will be soon. These guys are expanding FAST!
The set up look much easier than KH Director, right? 😳
Sure is!!
Hi Sam, I’m in the market to buy a monitoring / automation system for my reef tank. My options are Neptune Apex or Reef Factory. What are your thoughts or recommendations as you’ve used both.
If you’re in australia, forget Neptune
I’m in Sydney. I’ve seen a few of your videos on the Reef Factory and I’m on the fence to which direction I should travel. I don’t want to make the expensive move then have to change half way through.
Yeah ok, well, in Sydney - forget about Neptune. The hardware is very difficult to buy, often resulting in grey imports. Then you are at the mercy of their Trident reagents (not to mention how expensive the system is here).
I'd go either KH Guardian or Reef Factory depending on if you want an alkalinity tester, or more than that
Reef factory had lots off issues with the KH keeper . Forums in Uk and Europe, full off all the early issues on first 2 version, hopefully latest version is a lot better .
No way I would trust it to auto dose for me , having seen all the issues over last year plus
I heard that with the early versions yes. The only one that made it out to Australia was this model and it has been fairly flawless
what's up sam. from Chicago
thanks for joining all the way from Chicago!
Am I right in assuming that this combination is the same as the KH Keeper Pro?
Initially I was thinking the Pro did testing of Calcium and Magnesium but re-reading the details on their website it seems it is the same.
Now I know why Billy and David were trying to talk me into the 3x doser instead of the single. D'oh!! 🤦♂️
I’m not 100% certain but does the pro have the alk doser built in?
@@ParkersReef it has the 3 pumps built in. I was thinking that it would test Cal and Mag but it looks like their new tester will do that instead.
Yeah this won’t test anything other than alk. But the new unit does cal, mag, nitrate and phosphate :)
Reef Factory, it is just another walled garden which doesn't make sense....fragmentation is not what we need in the hobby as no one will be brand loyal down to every last piece of equipment IMO. Also, there is a fatal flaw with Reef Factory as it has NO wired communication between its devices. All the devices rely only on Wifi to transmit data....god forbid you're in the middle of a dosing cycle and lose wifi....I don't see them lasting very long here as their equipment is cheaply made overseas in China while their software is made in Poland...they don't have dedicated customer support in the US which will make it really hard to support...also, no one is carrying their line willingly...Reef Factory got desperate and now providing a 60 day payment term and if you don't want it after 60 days, it can be returned...its why Champion and other small "distributors" only picked it up...I'd stay far away from them
if Hydros wanted to come to australia, I'd be happy to look at it then. Until then, it is of little use to me...
Don’t buy Mastertronic it’s crap
Quite enjoying mine :)