The actual campaign has some context that we don't really see in the show that really hints that it was Percy she meant. From the campign, we know Saundor is an archfey who (long story short) was rejected by his love interest and became so depressed and incely that he was basically cursed to never find true love. So when he asked for Vex's heart, he definitely meant in a romantic sense. So given that context, she was definitely referring to Percy, not Vax.
Yeah, I can definitely tell from the comments that there’s a lot of context to the relationship that I’m missing by not having seen the stream. ~Nicole
One aspect of Percy and Vex that I think gets lost a lot in the sweeping romance of the Lady Vex moment is how much trust Percy has to have for Vex. The title is real, the responsibility is real - Percy basically just gave Vex the job of helping take care of Whitestone forever. He's a guy who didn't tell Vox Machina anything about his past until he had to, who slept with a gun under his pillow for years and Vex is the one he trusts to watch over his home and sister. There is another moment that makes none of the shipper moment lists but I will explain more if you are interested (it's occurred already in the campaign and there's no way it's getting shown).
That's the one thing in this show I did liked, while I fully disagree with what he Became, we are never given even a hint of Why Saundor was like that, it comes over as straight up Incell with zero reason.
There's a ton more heartfelt moments in the campaign between vex and Percy that we don't get to see because they did not expect to be able to animate more than the first season, or even past the briarwoods for that matter...its one of the biggest injustices of LOVM in my opinion.
Great job on the perfect intro. You guys are so f'ing adorable. Zack, don't let the detail-police get to you. Nichole, remembering the character's names on a first pass isn't always easy.
have been watching your reactions for a few months now and really appreciate how often y'all kinda unpack your own reactions and explain feelings you have, it is really cool to see your ideas and opinions evolve over different episodes and arcs. i particularly appreciated nicole's takes about percy and vex -- as someone who holds their dynamic in the stream quite dear to me, i think one of the few misfortunes of the animated show is that it is simply impossible for them to include everything in the show and i think on occasion that comes at the cost of seeing the depth of the dynamics between some characters and sometimes that means the exclusion of moments that are tiny in the stream but did some heavy lifting for contextualizing the way different characters understand one another. i agree completely with nicole's critique that vex shouldn't get respect from her father from a man giving her a title and i think the writing actually agrees, given that her dad does sees through percy's choice and doesn't change any of his opinion (this is something that sticks out to me as a choice made by the writers to maintain vex's agency and power in the situation given that, in the original stream, syldor Did change some of his behaviour (he was still an asshat but one with more 'respect') after percy told him vex's title, so i suspect the writers might have also had the thought nicole had about syldor changing how he treats vex because she is titled by a man instead of respecting her because she's worthy of respect in her own right. i think in general, the inability of the show to include every tiny moment but still including bigger fan-favourite moments like percy giving vex her title does come at the cost of the audience for the show not getting to see the ways that percy and vex do and do not understand each other, because nicole is absolutely right that they have very different experiences with nobility, but the breadth of the stream allows room to show those differences to actually be a boon in the connection between the two of them, rather than a point of misunderstanding. the show gives us a little bit of it when vex asks him if she looks like she comes from nobility -- because while you're right that percy had a better experience with nobility, vex's experience with nobility is one she believes she has to live up to or is currently unworthy of, that scene also points out that percy's different experience with a family who loved him and being born into nobility allowed him to see the fact that nobles are just like everyone else but a bit shittier while vex still has an understanding of nobility framed by her father's lessons that she was not and cannot be good enough, leading her to romanticise it in a way as this far-above her thing that she cannot reach. in an exchange that i unfortunately do not think the show will include, vax and percy actually discuss why percy titled vex, and percy is explicit in pointing out that because he was born into nobility he knows that titles don't really mean anything and money doesn't mean anything in terms of being happy, but that he also knows vex has not yet come to that realization, and giving her a better title than her father on a whim was a simple way to start to make it clearer to her that her father is weak and his opinion on her noble worth says nothing about the truth of her character. i wrote all that not in any way to undercut your opinions or anything, just wanted to share some of the stream context because I know when I've watched adaptation I know I've found it interesting to get additional information -- especially when it is the kind of foggy things that haven't been intentionaly excluded from the implicit narrative (i.e., most of the fans of the stream watching the show have a bunch of tiny moments stored up in their brain to contextualize vex and percy's dynamic that people who have not seen the stream do not, and i think on occasion the writing for the animated show suffers from them doing the same) where the show obviously does not have the time to include 20-something miniscule moments across hours of a campaign so they focus on the big ones where things are more obvious, but those big moments when they occured in the stream were building on those 20-something moments that show-only viewers have no familairity with. anyway! that's all to say, love y'alls reactions, the combination of in-the-know viewer and new viewer is always fun, and critters can be defensive at times but please don't stop sharing your opinion even if it goes against the grain of your comments section or Wider Fandom Opinions!
Throughout this whole reaction series, I’ve been thinking that you guys are my people but then the music man reference sealed it. Y’all are fucking awesome!
I feel for you dancing around the spoilers Zach - for a while i was running a campaign set post Vox Machina for some friends who were slowly making their way through the episodes and I was constantly stopping myself from mentioning the Chroma conclave.
Percy, who invented various trick arrows for Vex (at the very least in the original campaign), gave her a real title, he planned on offering her long before (was just waiting for the right moment), because it is perfect for a ranger. And don't worry about Garmelie, it will all be revealed in time and nothing bad will ever happen. And the Grog reveal at the end is purely a series reveal, it was a known fact in the campaign, since basically forever, since it was in the character introductions, they narrated for the start of the episodes until they got their first cool intro video. You might still find those narrated introductions, but heavily visually censored, since the artwork they used was under copyright.
Different people have interpreted Vex's line in various ways. Some thought she meant Vax, some thought she meant herself, and some people thought she meant Percy. So, until she clears that up, you are as correct as anybody. Also, I think whether or not someone prefers Vax/Keyleth or Vex/Percy might be influenced by whether or not they watched the campaign or the animated version first, because the Vax/Keyleth scenes were many, long, and often frustrating in the way they overtalked their feelings. In contrast, the Vex and Percy scenes were shorter, more flirty, and just subtle enough to make you think that you were watching a secret unfold in front of you.
@FandomFuse Ok Nicole, let's talk about Vex. I get where you're coming from, but I think you misunderstood what happened there. Vex is, very much, in denial about her Father because she wants to earn something that, realistically, she can never achieve: Her Father's Love and Respect. This, of course, is what Saundor attempted to use to seduce Vex. Because of this, Vex would never have stood up for herself without external stimuli. This is also shown in the flashbacks earlier in Season 2 where Vax is trying to get Vex to stand up for herself and she refuses because she loves her Father too much to tell him off. As far as Percy is concerned, it wasn't the title that earned Vex's respect. Percy already had her respect by that time, despite the fact that he got her killed. She never blamed him for that. Percy "bestowing" that title upon Vex didn't diminish her ability to stand up for herself, rather it empowered her to do so. Percy, for the entire series, has been portrayed as a man who values his family name, but doesn't want the responsibilities that come with it, hence why he foisted all of that off on his sister at the end of Season 1. The fact that Percy was, not only willing to invoke his family name and station to stand up for Vex, but then actually use the power and authority said name and station afford him (as the Lord of Whitestone, Percy is 100% within his right to bestow titles and nobility to whomever he deems worthy) all just to stand up for Vex wasn't lost on Vex. She knows that this isn't something Percy takes lightly. These acts stir... other... feelings within Vex. And when her Father basically saw right through what Percy was attempting to do and told him to eff off, that's what made Vex go, "Enough is enough!" For Vex, Syldor can abuse her all he wants, but the moment he begins to be an asshole to her friends, that's where the draws the line. And the moment she did that, the emotional floodgates opened and Vex was able to, finally, release on her father. Percy bestowing Nobility upon Vex and Syldor laughing in his face empowered Vex to, finally, confront her true feelings about her father. If this hadn't happened, Saundor might have actually succeeded in seducing Vex. Also, Percy's actions solidifying Vex's feelings about him. Just, the whole thing fully empowered Vex. It made her far stronger than she was going into that exchange. Basically, Vax has been trying to get Vex to see the truth and confront her feelings about her father their entire lives. But they're twins. Vex isn't going to listen to Vax. However, when a friend seeing things from the outside, like Percy, turns to her father and says "Eff You!", then she's going to listen. And that's exactly what Percy's actions were. A big ol' "eff you" to Syldor. In the Campaign, Matt's portrayal of Syldor pissed Taliesin off so much that he only paid half attention to the conversation in the dining room because he spent that whole conversation going through his list of Official Whitestone Titles to find one to bestow upon Vex just so he could flip the bird to Syldor. That's right. The title, in real life, had nothing to do with Percy and Vex. It was 100% Taliesin wanting to flip the bird to Matt. And, yes, Taliesin did, in fact, create all of the Official Titles that the Court of Whitestone would hold when he created Whitestone for his backstory. He spent that conversation running that list down, determining which titles were now available thanks to the Briarwoods. So the boon to Percy and Vex was actually a side effect of Taliesin being like, "OH EFF YOU!!" And the icing on the cake? Not only was this in the moment, but this was also a Live Show. So they had a Live Audience. Needless to say, that mic drop was the moment of the game because, literally, nobody saw it coming. Laura Bailey was rendered completely slack-jawed and speechless. If I recall, that moment received a standing ovation. You should check it out on UA-cam. There are clips so you can get just that moment.
Thank you for writing all this out so I don't have to. This is exactly what I was thinking. All of the moments you've mentioned here never get old. I love them all so much! Pardon me is always a little sad though, in the fact that this version of Syldor will never get to hear that bad ass line from his daughter, because in this version, she says it to someone else and not directly to his face. Oh well. There's always a live stream. I really hope we get to finish this conversation, because there's a huge chunk that they didn't put in this episode. I mean, it's definitely written in a way that could go either way, but I get the vibe that they're leaning a little more towards the twins seeing their dad again, and that's us getting all the things we missed in this episode from episode 60 of the stream. God, I love heredity and hats! What do you think? Do you think that they'll have a Troy back?
@@ZeldaWolf2000 Oh Troy is definitely coming back. I mean, unless they're going to make the Elves total dickbags and retcon their involvement in the war. But I do think, one way or another, Troy is coming back because reconciliation between Syldor and the Twins is necessary for the Twins' Character Arcs to be complete. Especially Vex. If I recall, in the Campaign, it's the reconciliation with Syldor that allows Vex to go on to do what she does and become who she becomes because she no longer has that emotional baggage. Besides, we need Troy to get his come-uppance for daring to question the woman who wrote the backstory for his character about the backstory for his character. I still can't believe he did that...
@@ForeverDegenerateWell, I'm glad someone agrees with me. I am excited for him to come back. Hate the man, love the character. Also, I don't see what Troy did is wrong. I mean, we do that kind of stuff all the time when we rewrite fanfiction, filling in the blanks that we either can't fill or just don't have the information, because it's obscure or whatever. I also don't think what he filled the blanks with affected his performance and negative way. I think he felt he needed to do it to make the character more real to him, so he can play him better. I also don't think Laura or Liam were offended in anyway by him doing that. I think Laura was just correcting him, which I'm sure he'll remember in the future and use. I don't think what he had versus. Laura had changed the character at all in terms of Troy's performance. Would it have been nice for him to know that, sure, but he didn't. Laura could've mentioned it to him, or he could've asked, but neither of them did that, but it didn't affect the final product. I'm sure actors do that all the time. I sure would. Sometimes you need to fill on the blanks to make the character more real to you so you can be better at your job. By the way, am I the only one interested in hearing more about what Vax think of their father? I mean, we get the gist of it, but I feel like, though I understand why, we lean a little more into how Vex feels, and I'd be interested to get a little more of Vax's point of view, just a smidge. What about you? Even though I've read Kith and Kin, I still feel this way. Most of the flashback chapters, I feel l, concentrate more on Vex than Vax. It's not a lot, but it does make me want a little more knowledge on Vax feelings, go a little deeper or spend more time with his feelings. Thought?
This may be another Campaign vs. show thing but I think one thing you're missing is how Percy and Vex see themselves in comparison to the group. Taliesin has straight up said that Percy views himself and Vex as the only "responsible adults" in the party (aside from maybe Pike but she was gone most of the time). You had Vax constantly getting in trouble from sneaking off (a la S1, Episode 3). Then you had young, naive Keyleth. Then Scanlan and Grog, which enough said. I don't remember Laura mentioning similar feelings but you've seen how Vex acts- it wouldn't be far off to assume she has similar thoughts (look at how she treats Keyleth and Scanlan, and how overprotective she is of Vax and Trinket). I think that alone can be quite the bonding point between them, and perhaps overcome some of the potential pitfalls you see. Plus, Vex sees Percy as a man who respects her and is willing to stand up for her, especially after he made a point to bestow that title on her
Yeah! It’s very clear from comments that I’m missing context for that relationship that’s exclusive to the stream. I’m definitely only reacting off of the short bits I get in the show. I’m sure I’d feel differently if I spent hours upon hours with them rather than a few bite sized episodes. ~Nicole
@@FandomFuse Haha I'm not a big Vax and Kiki Stan 😜 Though I do like them together, just not as much as I ship Vex and Percy. It's better in the campaign though, but the show has still done an amazing job.
woh, I got here to be like number 2? That's a first in a LONG time for any show I watch. Outside of that: Can't wait to watch this through and see what you think of this episode!
28:29 Its not an accident when she says "my heart is someone elses" it cuts to Percy first. And Percy and Vex are the grown ups of the group, the planners, the long distance damage dealers. They fit. I dont care for romantic subplots but this is the pairing I like best (so "slightly more positive than neutral" as opposed to my regular reaction between neutral and eye rolling)
While Vaxleth happens to be my favorite ship, I’m feeling the need to defend Percahlia, esp for this episode. Foreverdegenerate’s comment was perfect in explaining it, and I just want to add that Percy & Vex are definitely on the same wavelength all the time. She and Percy were the unspoken leaders of S1 and the amount of trust they had between them is what fostered their feelings, while Vex was the only one to not treat him like a monster when he had Orthax. Percy’s trust in her gave him the idea to title her. As we see, it’s exactly what Vex needed to finally step up to her father, even after Vax tried for years to get her to see that he’d never accept them bc of their genetics. I’d say Percahlia is the most in-tune couple in VM bc of how similar they are even though they come from different backgrounds. They def are the ‘power couple’ of the group, while Vaxleth are the ‘black cat & golden retriever’/ ‘sun & moon’ couple, and Pikelan are the ‘opposites-attract’ couple. Also, her saying “My heart is someone else’s” about Percy doesn’t seem that far fetched, esp bc she’s just now realizing her true feelings for him & is just telling Saundor but not confessing to Percy directly yet. Tbh Vax fell even faster into love with Key all the way in S1 & even straight up said he loves her even if she didn’t fully reciprocate it bc of her insecurities. But people will always have different reactions to ships so don’t worry if you’re not fully on board yet!
In the campaign you saw better how Percy and Vex got closer and the Feywild was the moment they became more forthcoming with their affections. I agree the show did not show it as well but there was still a lot of hints.
Sooo... I don't think you are seeing the things Percy/Vex shippers are seeing. For me, Percy is what Vex was taught to appreciate, titled/noble has money, class. He of course has loads of other awesome qualities, but for Vex he is a person with those qualities who welcomes her, gives her a home in his home, makes her part of his family, gifts her stability and potentially love. For Percy, he values his titles/position and intelligence, but does not value himself due to what happened with Orthax. He is too pragmatic to look to someone like Keyleth for life advice - at one point in the campaign she called him evil and indicated his suggestions should be ignored. However he does value Vex's point of view. She reached out when he was at his lowest, showed him compassion and told him to take off his mask. He was building her things throughout the campaign, she assisted his building projects and they often would agree on the same things when coming up with plans. At least, that is my point of view
"I wish it didn't have to be a man giving a woman a title that got her the respect" and that's why you'd hate the liveshow moment more - because there, it worked. In the show, it doesn't - Vex's father doesn't respect what he believes is a meaningless title any more than he respects her. But the gesture of someone supporting her, and not only that, but including her in what's most important to them (i.e. Percy including her in the legacy of Whitestone), gives her the power to stand up to her father, rather than slink into the shadows and try to be what she believes her father wants her to be. Also, as a Perc'ahlia girlie first and foremost, while I'm not exactly surprised at Nicole's reaction to those romantic hints (you've always scrunched your eyebrows at the earlier ones in confusion/dislike? even if they didn't register as romantic setup as far as I remember), I am still fascinated by the "I don't like them for each other" idea - I'd be really interested in what kind of people you'd see them with in contrast, I suppose? Because I don't even agree with the argument about their "different versions of nobility", because Vex doesn't blame her father's social status for the neglect and Percy continues to rain his privileges on literally anyone who becomes dear to him, so to me it's less of an obstacle than you seem to see? Maybe it's just the campaign perspective, but they seemed a good fit to me at this point - he makes her feel loved, she humbles him by keeping up with his intellect, if I were to oversimplify the dynamic. Might just not be your kinda ship, I suppose. And oh god no, with Saundor it was very much Percy. The cut away from her goes directly to Percy. And Saundor's intention are very much in the romantic direction (I thought that was made clear by the incel behaviour after, was it not?) so it'd be kinda a strange tonal shift to counter that with saying that her heart belongs to her brother...? I'd never make the symbolism of heart ownership between siblings. I love my brother, but the heart symbolism is much different from fraternal love.
This is the first time Vex stands up to her dad. In defense of her friend, not for herself or her brother. I think what Percy did, gave her the power to do that.
@@TrishaTerrett-po3th I think that's one of the reasons that Percy and Vex work. He's always supporting her, without ever taking away her agency. They show this in this episode, when he hands her the arrow head he was tinkering with. This happened a lot in the campaign, notably when he spent days (or maybe weeks?) engineering a seat for Vex's broom, so that she wouldn't have to shoot at disadvantage when she was flying. And she provides Percy her honest assessment of his actions. She not afraid to confront him when he veers into his darker impulses, while still supporting him emotionally. Yes, they come from different experiences, but the important thing is that they always seem to respect and trust each other. And that each of the two finds the other one "hot."
Are you telling me… that you only *now* understand that Vex and Percy are doing a romance? They’ve been like that the entire first season! Also, *excuse me?* Vex: My heart is someone else’s! *immediate cut to Percy’s surprised face* *cuts back to Vex stabbing Saundor IN THE HEART with PERCY’S GIFT* Not to mention that the scene is *specifically* talking about romantic love and not general? How is it even possible to misinterpret that? O.o
Oh gosh, no I’ve seen it coming for a while, guess I was just hoping it wouldn’t go that way. And hoping there was a different reasoning there. But alas 😅 ~Nicole
@@Kayta-Linda not a diss! Just my opinion. I’m glad people find different pairings to root for and really relate to in shows like this. It makes it feel more realistic when there are lots of different groupings that mean more to some people than others. ~Nicole
"Garmin" aka Garmelie, that but at the end is more for those who have watched the actual play. We may see him again, we may not, in TLoVM. But for now, think of him as fan service to live-stream Critters. Zach is correct in that the Lady Vex'ahlia and the "blood from my veins" bits were from Critical Role's first ever live show. It's actually an amazing episode, full of fun and laughs as well as hurt and anger. There's another UA-camr/streamer who just recapped that episode on his channel (won't disclose here without permission from Zach and Nicole), and he specifically shows those clips in his video. And Nicole, strap yourself in, you got 3 episodes left for this season, and the next one is a HUGE fan favorite!! No spoilers, but I've been impatiently waiting for your reaction to this one. Also, question (I may gave missed y'all saying this, so apologies if I have): Are you intending to watch and react to Season 3? If yes, will you watch/react as episodes are released or wait until everything is released?
Actually in next weeks episode we ask for opinions on how we should do next season! We’re torn between me watching ahead so we keep the same format of me having seen it first and Nicole going in fresh, but the two of us watching for the first time could also be really fun!
@@thatguyzackrobb I like this format (you having seen the episodes before Nicole). It's a really fun change from other reaction channels, where all the reactors are seeing the episodes for the first time together, because we get to share your anticipation when a big moment is about to happen.
Why would Vex be referring to her brother when she says "My heart belongs to someone else."? Also it immediately cuts to Percy's reaction after she says that and punches Saundor.
Guess I just saw what I wanted to see. Lol I definitely saw some “vibes” between the two. But not love. Not yet at least. So the whole ‘’my heart belongs to him’ felt too … fast to mean Percy. At least in the show. I’m realizing from the comments that there as a lot more development in the stream that I’m not getting here. It felt very.. we made eyes at each other a few times and now my heart is yours. Which was kinda icky to me, so I was just hoping it meant her love for her brother. ~Nicole
@@FandomFuse It's kind of ironic that you like Vaxleth more than Perc'ahlia because you think Perc'ahlia was too sudden. When the campaign was going on, I remember a lot of people felt the same about Vaxleth because they felt Vax's confession was too sudden or too "out of nowhere." In comparison, I don't remember those kind of criticisms about Perc'ahlia.
The “Noble Title” bit was one instance where the crunching down from full campaign to animated series did not perform well. The full scene was after they had met and was during some kind of formal function in the city, and Percy made sure she was announced with the title as a “Fuck you” in public to her father. It got a HUGE ovation during the live show where it happened. As for the Percy and Vex romance, it made sense over time, and the compressing here does make it harder to understand. Taliesin has said in commentary before that “Percy sees Vax as the only other adult in the room” and Laura has said (paraphrasing) that Vex sees Percy and his trauma as a kindred soul to what she and Vax have been through. In the campaign it was a slower burn than Vax and Keyleth were, but was a good payoff. Not sure if they’re selling it quite well enough in between the breakneck pace of trying to get the rest of the campaign into 4 or 5 seasons.
The actual campaign has some context that we don't really see in the show that really hints that it was Percy she meant. From the campign, we know Saundor is an archfey who (long story short) was rejected by his love interest and became so depressed and incely that he was basically cursed to never find true love. So when he asked for Vex's heart, he definitely meant in a romantic sense. So given that context, she was definitely referring to Percy, not Vax.
Yeah, I can definitely tell from the comments that there’s a lot of context to the relationship that I’m missing by not having seen the stream. ~Nicole
@@FandomFuseYeah, it would definitely be worth it to have Zach find a good Perc'ahlia supercut to show you before season 3 starts.
One aspect of Percy and Vex that I think gets lost a lot in the sweeping romance of the Lady Vex moment is how much trust Percy has to have for Vex. The title is real, the responsibility is real - Percy basically just gave Vex the job of helping take care of Whitestone forever. He's a guy who didn't tell Vox Machina anything about his past until he had to, who slept with a gun under his pillow for years and Vex is the one he trusts to watch over his home and sister. There is another moment that makes none of the shipper moment lists but I will explain more if you are interested (it's occurred already in the campaign and there's no way it's getting shown).
That's the one thing in this show I did liked, while I fully disagree with what he Became, we are never given even a hint of Why Saundor was like that, it comes over as straight up Incell with zero reason.
Watch in the previous episode when Vex is high as a kite. There are concentric hearts all over Percy when she looks at him.
Scanlan was whistling "Pull My Beads of Love"
There's a ton more heartfelt moments in the campaign between vex and Percy that we don't get to see because they did not expect to be able to animate more than the first season, or even past the briarwoods for that matter...its one of the biggest injustices of LOVM in my opinion.
Great job on the perfect intro. You guys are so f'ing adorable. Zack, don't let the detail-police get to you. Nichole, remembering the character's names on a first pass isn't always easy.
have been watching your reactions for a few months now and really appreciate how often y'all kinda unpack your own reactions and explain feelings you have, it is really cool to see your ideas and opinions evolve over different episodes and arcs. i particularly appreciated nicole's takes about percy and vex -- as someone who holds their dynamic in the stream quite dear to me, i think one of the few misfortunes of the animated show is that it is simply impossible for them to include everything in the show and i think on occasion that comes at the cost of seeing the depth of the dynamics between some characters and sometimes that means the exclusion of moments that are tiny in the stream but did some heavy lifting for contextualizing the way different characters understand one another.
i agree completely with nicole's critique that vex shouldn't get respect from her father from a man giving her a title and i think the writing actually agrees, given that her dad does sees through percy's choice and doesn't change any of his opinion (this is something that sticks out to me as a choice made by the writers to maintain vex's agency and power in the situation given that, in the original stream, syldor Did change some of his behaviour (he was still an asshat but one with more 'respect') after percy told him vex's title, so i suspect the writers might have also had the thought nicole had about syldor changing how he treats vex because she is titled by a man instead of respecting her because she's worthy of respect in her own right.
i think in general, the inability of the show to include every tiny moment but still including bigger fan-favourite moments like percy giving vex her title does come at the cost of the audience for the show not getting to see the ways that percy and vex do and do not understand each other, because nicole is absolutely right that they have very different experiences with nobility, but the breadth of the stream allows room to show those differences to actually be a boon in the connection between the two of them, rather than a point of misunderstanding. the show gives us a little bit of it when vex asks him if she looks like she comes from nobility -- because while you're right that percy had a better experience with nobility, vex's experience with nobility is one she believes she has to live up to or is currently unworthy of, that scene also points out that percy's different experience with a family who loved him and being born into nobility allowed him to see the fact that nobles are just like everyone else but a bit shittier while vex still has an understanding of nobility framed by her father's lessons that she was not and cannot be good enough, leading her to romanticise it in a way as this far-above her thing that she cannot reach. in an exchange that i unfortunately do not think the show will include, vax and percy actually discuss why percy titled vex, and percy is explicit in pointing out that because he was born into nobility he knows that titles don't really mean anything and money doesn't mean anything in terms of being happy, but that he also knows vex has not yet come to that realization, and giving her a better title than her father on a whim was a simple way to start to make it clearer to her that her father is weak and his opinion on her noble worth says nothing about the truth of her character.
i wrote all that not in any way to undercut your opinions or anything, just wanted to share some of the stream context because I know when I've watched adaptation I know I've found it interesting to get additional information -- especially when it is the kind of foggy things that haven't been intentionaly excluded from the implicit narrative (i.e., most of the fans of the stream watching the show have a bunch of tiny moments stored up in their brain to contextualize vex and percy's dynamic that people who have not seen the stream do not, and i think on occasion the writing for the animated show suffers from them doing the same) where the show obviously does not have the time to include 20-something miniscule moments across hours of a campaign so they focus on the big ones where things are more obvious, but those big moments when they occured in the stream were building on those 20-something moments that show-only viewers have no familairity with. anyway! that's all to say, love y'alls reactions, the combination of in-the-know viewer and new viewer is always fun, and critters can be defensive at times but please don't stop sharing your opinion even if it goes against the grain of your comments section or Wider Fandom Opinions!
Thank you for sharing this! I really appreciated reading your take as someone who has a lot of respect for the characters and the story. ~Nicole
Throughout this whole reaction series, I’ve been thinking that you guys are my people but then the music man reference sealed it. Y’all are fucking awesome!
I feel for you dancing around the spoilers Zach - for a while i was running a campaign set post Vox Machina for some friends who were slowly making their way through the episodes and I was constantly stopping myself from mentioning the Chroma conclave.
Percy, who invented various trick arrows for Vex (at the very least in the original campaign), gave her a real title, he planned on offering her long before (was just waiting for the right moment), because it is perfect for a ranger.
And don't worry about Garmelie, it will all be revealed in time and nothing bad will ever happen.
And the Grog reveal at the end is purely a series reveal, it was a known fact in the campaign, since basically forever, since it was in the character introductions, they narrated for the start of the episodes until they got their first cool intro video. You might still find those narrated introductions, but heavily visually censored, since the artwork they used was under copyright.
Different people have interpreted Vex's line in various ways. Some thought she meant Vax, some thought she meant herself, and some people thought she meant Percy. So, until she clears that up, you are as correct as anybody.
Also, I think whether or not someone prefers Vax/Keyleth or Vex/Percy might be influenced by whether or not they watched the campaign or the animated version first, because the Vax/Keyleth scenes were many, long, and often frustrating in the way they overtalked their feelings. In contrast, the Vex and Percy scenes were shorter, more flirty, and just subtle enough to make you think that you were watching a secret unfold in front of you.
@FandomFuse
Ok Nicole, let's talk about Vex. I get where you're coming from, but I think you misunderstood what happened there. Vex is, very much, in denial about her Father because she wants to earn something that, realistically, she can never achieve: Her Father's Love and Respect. This, of course, is what Saundor attempted to use to seduce Vex. Because of this, Vex would never have stood up for herself without external stimuli. This is also shown in the flashbacks earlier in Season 2 where Vax is trying to get Vex to stand up for herself and she refuses because she loves her Father too much to tell him off.
As far as Percy is concerned, it wasn't the title that earned Vex's respect. Percy already had her respect by that time, despite the fact that he got her killed. She never blamed him for that. Percy "bestowing" that title upon Vex didn't diminish her ability to stand up for herself, rather it empowered her to do so. Percy, for the entire series, has been portrayed as a man who values his family name, but doesn't want the responsibilities that come with it, hence why he foisted all of that off on his sister at the end of Season 1. The fact that Percy was, not only willing to invoke his family name and station to stand up for Vex, but then actually use the power and authority said name and station afford him (as the Lord of Whitestone, Percy is 100% within his right to bestow titles and nobility to whomever he deems worthy) all just to stand up for Vex wasn't lost on Vex. She knows that this isn't something Percy takes lightly. These acts stir... other... feelings within Vex.
And when her Father basically saw right through what Percy was attempting to do and told him to eff off, that's what made Vex go, "Enough is enough!" For Vex, Syldor can abuse her all he wants, but the moment he begins to be an asshole to her friends, that's where the draws the line. And the moment she did that, the emotional floodgates opened and Vex was able to, finally, release on her father. Percy bestowing Nobility upon Vex and Syldor laughing in his face empowered Vex to, finally, confront her true feelings about her father. If this hadn't happened, Saundor might have actually succeeded in seducing Vex. Also, Percy's actions solidifying Vex's feelings about him. Just, the whole thing fully empowered Vex. It made her far stronger than she was going into that exchange.
Basically, Vax has been trying to get Vex to see the truth and confront her feelings about her father their entire lives. But they're twins. Vex isn't going to listen to Vax. However, when a friend seeing things from the outside, like Percy, turns to her father and says "Eff You!", then she's going to listen.
And that's exactly what Percy's actions were. A big ol' "eff you" to Syldor. In the Campaign, Matt's portrayal of Syldor pissed Taliesin off so much that he only paid half attention to the conversation in the dining room because he spent that whole conversation going through his list of Official Whitestone Titles to find one to bestow upon Vex just so he could flip the bird to Syldor. That's right. The title, in real life, had nothing to do with Percy and Vex. It was 100% Taliesin wanting to flip the bird to Matt. And, yes, Taliesin did, in fact, create all of the Official Titles that the Court of Whitestone would hold when he created Whitestone for his backstory. He spent that conversation running that list down, determining which titles were now available thanks to the Briarwoods. So the boon to Percy and Vex was actually a side effect of Taliesin being like, "OH EFF YOU!!" And the icing on the cake? Not only was this in the moment, but this was also a Live Show. So they had a Live Audience. Needless to say, that mic drop was the moment of the game because, literally, nobody saw it coming. Laura Bailey was rendered completely slack-jawed and speechless. If I recall, that moment received a standing ovation. You should check it out on UA-cam. There are clips so you can get just that moment.
Thank you for writing all this out so I don't have to. This is exactly what I was thinking. All of the moments you've mentioned here never get old. I love them all so much! Pardon me is always a little sad though, in the fact that this version of Syldor will never get to hear that bad ass line from his daughter, because in this version, she says it to someone else and not directly to his face. Oh well. There's always a live stream.
I really hope we get to finish this conversation, because there's a huge chunk that they didn't put in this episode. I mean, it's definitely written in a way that could go either way, but I get the vibe that they're leaning a little more towards the twins seeing their dad again, and that's us getting all the things we missed in this episode from episode 60 of the stream. God, I love heredity and hats! What do you think? Do you think that they'll have a Troy back?
@@ZeldaWolf2000 Oh Troy is definitely coming back. I mean, unless they're going to make the Elves total dickbags and retcon their involvement in the war. But I do think, one way or another, Troy is coming back because reconciliation between Syldor and the Twins is necessary for the Twins' Character Arcs to be complete. Especially Vex. If I recall, in the Campaign, it's the reconciliation with Syldor that allows Vex to go on to do what she does and become who she becomes because she no longer has that emotional baggage. Besides, we need Troy to get his come-uppance for daring to question the woman who wrote the backstory for his character about the backstory for his character. I still can't believe he did that...
@@ForeverDegenerateWell, I'm glad someone agrees with me. I am excited for him to come back. Hate the man, love the character.
Also, I don't see what Troy did is wrong. I mean, we do that kind of stuff all the time when we rewrite fanfiction, filling in the blanks that we either can't fill or just don't have the information, because it's obscure or whatever. I also don't think what he filled the blanks with affected his performance and negative way. I think he felt he needed to do it to make the character more real to him, so he can play him better. I also don't think Laura or Liam were offended in anyway by him doing that. I think Laura was just correcting him, which I'm sure he'll remember in the future and use. I don't think what he had versus. Laura had changed the character at all in terms of Troy's performance. Would it have been nice for him to know that, sure, but he didn't. Laura could've mentioned it to him, or he could've asked, but neither of them did that, but it didn't affect the final product. I'm sure actors do that all the time. I sure would. Sometimes you need to fill on the blanks to make the character more real to you so you can be better at your job.
By the way, am I the only one interested in hearing more about what Vax think of their father? I mean, we get the gist of it, but I feel like, though I understand why, we lean a little more into how Vex feels, and I'd be interested to get a little more of Vax's point of view, just a smidge. What about you? Even though I've read Kith and Kin, I still feel this way. Most of the flashback chapters, I feel l, concentrate more on Vex than Vax. It's not a lot, but it does make me want a little more knowledge on Vax feelings, go a little deeper or spend more time with his feelings. Thought?
This may be another Campaign vs. show thing but I think one thing you're missing is how Percy and Vex see themselves in comparison to the group. Taliesin has straight up said that Percy views himself and Vex as the only "responsible adults" in the party (aside from maybe Pike but she was gone most of the time). You had Vax constantly getting in trouble from sneaking off (a la S1, Episode 3). Then you had young, naive Keyleth. Then Scanlan and Grog, which enough said. I don't remember Laura mentioning similar feelings but you've seen how Vex acts- it wouldn't be far off to assume she has similar thoughts (look at how she treats Keyleth and Scanlan, and how overprotective she is of Vax and Trinket). I think that alone can be quite the bonding point between them, and perhaps overcome some of the potential pitfalls you see.
Plus, Vex sees Percy as a man who respects her and is willing to stand up for her, especially after he made a point to bestow that title on her
Yeah! It’s very clear from comments that I’m missing context for that relationship that’s exclusive to the stream. I’m definitely only reacting off of the short bits I get in the show. I’m sure I’d feel differently if I spent hours upon hours with them rather than a few bite sized episodes. ~Nicole
Vex and Percy are the best ship
Bold of you to say that when Kiki and Vax are literally right there 😉 ~Nicole
@@FandomFuse Haha I'm not a big Vax and Kiki Stan 😜 Though I do like them together, just not as much as I ship Vex and Percy. It's better in the campaign though, but the show has still done an amazing job.
woh, I got here to be like number 2? That's a first in a LONG time for any show I watch. Outside of that: Can't wait to watch this through and see what you think of this episode!
I'm kind of worried, now that you broke the continuity by delivering a perfect intro
You’re right. We’ll never top it.
i for one, can totally understand where you're coming from Nicole when it comes to Vex & Percy...
...good reaction video, can't wait for the next one!
Your first successful intro! Congratulations lol.
Thank you!! 😁we’re very proud. ~Nicole
28:29 Its not an accident when she says "my heart is someone elses" it cuts to Percy first. And Percy and Vex are the grown ups of the group, the planners, the long distance damage dealers. They fit. I dont care for romantic subplots but this is the pairing I like best (so "slightly more positive than neutral" as opposed to my regular reaction between neutral and eye rolling)
Who is Garmen has the same vibe as where's Larkin, so....no spoilers! Just wait and it's gonna be great, I swear.
I love that you are a Vaxleth shipper, I also never cared much about Vex and Percy, but you know the fandom is very “passionate” about them
The Music Man song references??? Okay, I think I'm going to enjoy this channel.
Oh and on top of the Red Queen series I spotted last video I now see A Court of Thorns and Roses. Got Throne of Glass too?
Oh heck yes. 🙌🏼 we are a book positive household. Have the TOG series electronically! Haven’t got the physical set yet! ~Nicole
While Vaxleth happens to be my favorite ship, I’m feeling the need to defend Percahlia, esp for this episode. Foreverdegenerate’s comment was perfect in explaining it, and I just want to add that Percy & Vex are definitely on the same wavelength all the time. She and Percy were the unspoken leaders of S1 and the amount of trust they had between them is what fostered their feelings, while Vex was the only one to not treat him like a monster when he had Orthax. Percy’s trust in her gave him the idea to title her. As we see, it’s exactly what Vex needed to finally step up to her father, even after Vax tried for years to get her to see that he’d never accept them bc of their genetics. I’d say Percahlia is the most in-tune couple in VM bc of how similar they are even though they come from different backgrounds.
They def are the ‘power couple’ of the group, while Vaxleth are the ‘black cat & golden retriever’/ ‘sun & moon’ couple, and Pikelan are the ‘opposites-attract’ couple.
Also, her saying “My heart is someone else’s” about Percy doesn’t seem that far fetched, esp bc she’s just now realizing her true feelings for him & is just telling Saundor but not confessing to Percy directly yet. Tbh Vax fell even faster into love with Key all the way in S1 & even straight up said he loves her even if she didn’t fully reciprocate it bc of her insecurities. But people will always have different reactions to ships so don’t worry if you’re not fully on board yet!
Fenthris Bow isn't a spoiler. It's literally a unique name. You're good.
"Who the fuck is Garmen?" No idea, I've never heard that name.
In the campaign you saw better how Percy and Vex got closer and the Feywild was the moment they became more forthcoming with their affections. I agree the show did not show it as well but there was still a lot of hints.
I just hope next season we get the "Vax and Percy share a bathtub" scene... IYKYK
Sooo... I don't think you are seeing the things Percy/Vex shippers are seeing. For me, Percy is what Vex was taught to appreciate, titled/noble has money, class. He of course has loads of other awesome qualities, but for Vex he is a person with those qualities who welcomes her, gives her a home in his home, makes her part of his family, gifts her stability and potentially love. For Percy, he values his titles/position and intelligence, but does not value himself due to what happened with Orthax. He is too pragmatic to look to someone like Keyleth for life advice - at one point in the campaign she called him evil and indicated his suggestions should be ignored. However he does value Vex's point of view. She reached out when he was at his lowest, showed him compassion and told him to take off his mask. He was building her things throughout the campaign, she assisted his building projects and they often would agree on the same things when coming up with plans. At least, that is my point of view
IMDB:
The Legend of Vox Machina (2022- )
Sendhil Ramamurthy: Saundor
ehem *cough cough*
"I wish it didn't have to be a man giving a woman a title that got her the respect" and that's why you'd hate the liveshow moment more - because there, it worked. In the show, it doesn't - Vex's father doesn't respect what he believes is a meaningless title any more than he respects her. But the gesture of someone supporting her, and not only that, but including her in what's most important to them (i.e. Percy including her in the legacy of Whitestone), gives her the power to stand up to her father, rather than slink into the shadows and try to be what she believes her father wants her to be.
Also, as a Perc'ahlia girlie first and foremost, while I'm not exactly surprised at Nicole's reaction to those romantic hints (you've always scrunched your eyebrows at the earlier ones in confusion/dislike? even if they didn't register as romantic setup as far as I remember), I am still fascinated by the "I don't like them for each other" idea - I'd be really interested in what kind of people you'd see them with in contrast, I suppose? Because I don't even agree with the argument about their "different versions of nobility", because Vex doesn't blame her father's social status for the neglect and Percy continues to rain his privileges on literally anyone who becomes dear to him, so to me it's less of an obstacle than you seem to see? Maybe it's just the campaign perspective, but they seemed a good fit to me at this point - he makes her feel loved, she humbles him by keeping up with his intellect, if I were to oversimplify the dynamic. Might just not be your kinda ship, I suppose.
And oh god no, with Saundor it was very much Percy. The cut away from her goes directly to Percy. And Saundor's intention are very much in the romantic direction (I thought that was made clear by the incel behaviour after, was it not?) so it'd be kinda a strange tonal shift to counter that with saying that her heart belongs to her brother...? I'd never make the symbolism of heart ownership between siblings. I love my brother, but the heart symbolism is much different from fraternal love.
This is the first time Vex stands up to her dad. In defense of her friend, not for herself or her brother. I think what Percy did, gave her the power to do that.
@@TrishaTerrett-po3th I think that's one of the reasons that Percy and Vex work. He's always supporting her, without ever taking away her agency. They show this in this episode, when he hands her the arrow head he was tinkering with. This happened a lot in the campaign, notably when he spent days (or maybe weeks?) engineering a seat for Vex's broom, so that she wouldn't have to shoot at disadvantage when she was flying.
And she provides Percy her honest assessment of his actions. She not afraid to confront him when he veers into his darker impulses, while still supporting him emotionally.
Yes, they come from different experiences, but the important thing is that they always seem to respect and trust each other. And that each of the two finds the other one "hot."
Are you telling me… that you only *now* understand that Vex and Percy are doing a romance? They’ve been like that the entire first season!
Also, *excuse me?*
Vex: My heart is someone else’s!
*immediate cut to Percy’s surprised face*
*cuts back to Vex stabbing Saundor IN THE HEART with PERCY’S GIFT*
Not to mention that the scene is *specifically* talking about romantic love and not general? How is it even possible to misinterpret that? O.o
Oh gosh, no I’ve seen it coming for a while, guess I was just hoping it wouldn’t go that way. And hoping there was a different reasoning there. But alas 😅 ~Nicole
@@FandomFuse Wow. Way to diss my favourite couple))
@@Kayta-Linda not a diss! Just my opinion. I’m glad people find different pairings to root for and really relate to in shows like this. It makes it feel more realistic when there are lots of different groupings that mean more to some people than others. ~Nicole
The writer's strike is what killed Heroes. It killed Chuck and Burn Notice too.
The writing fell off badly after the first season. It was already thoroughly disappointing by the time the strike happened.
"Garmin" aka Garmelie, that but at the end is more for those who have watched the actual play. We may see him again, we may not, in TLoVM. But for now, think of him as fan service to live-stream Critters.
Zach is correct in that the Lady Vex'ahlia and the "blood from my veins" bits were from Critical Role's first ever live show. It's actually an amazing episode, full of fun and laughs as well as hurt and anger. There's another UA-camr/streamer who just recapped that episode on his channel (won't disclose here without permission from Zach and Nicole), and he specifically shows those clips in his video.
And Nicole, strap yourself in, you got 3 episodes left for this season, and the next one is a HUGE fan favorite!! No spoilers, but I've been impatiently waiting for your reaction to this one.
Also, question (I may gave missed y'all saying this, so apologies if I have): Are you intending to watch and react to Season 3? If yes, will you watch/react as episodes are released or wait until everything is released?
Actually in next weeks episode we ask for opinions on how we should do next season! We’re torn between me watching ahead so we keep the same format of me having seen it first and Nicole going in fresh, but the two of us watching for the first time could also be really fun!
Actually i think its episode 10 that is the fan favourite. And Garmilies back story is a huge spoiler
@@thatguyzackrobb I like this format (you having seen the episodes before Nicole). It's a really fun change from other reaction channels, where all the reactors are seeing the episodes for the first time together, because we get to share your anticipation when a big moment is about to happen.
Why would Vex be referring to her brother when she says "My heart belongs to someone else."? Also it immediately cuts to Percy's reaction after she says that and punches Saundor.
Guess I just saw what I wanted to see. Lol I definitely saw some “vibes” between the two. But not love. Not yet at least. So the whole ‘’my heart belongs to him’ felt too … fast to mean Percy. At least in the show. I’m realizing from the comments that there as a lot more development in the stream that I’m not getting here. It felt very.. we made eyes at each other a few times and now my heart is yours. Which was kinda icky to me, so I was just hoping it meant her love for her brother.
~Nicole
@@FandomFuse It's kind of ironic that you like Vaxleth more than Perc'ahlia because you think Perc'ahlia was too sudden. When the campaign was going on, I remember a lot of people felt the same about Vaxleth because they felt Vax's confession was too sudden or too "out of nowhere." In comparison, I don't remember those kind of criticisms about Perc'ahlia.
Gonna kinda have to get used to them being together cause... they're an item
I know lol! Wrapping my head around it as we speak ~Nicole
The “Noble Title” bit was one instance where the crunching down from full campaign to animated series did not perform well. The full scene was after they had met and was during some kind of formal function in the city, and Percy made sure she was announced with the title as a “Fuck you” in public to her father. It got a HUGE ovation during the live show where it happened.
As for the Percy and Vex romance, it made sense over time, and the compressing here does make it harder to understand. Taliesin has said in commentary before that “Percy sees Vax as the only other adult in the room” and Laura has said (paraphrasing) that Vex sees Percy and his trauma as a kindred soul to what she and Vax have been through. In the campaign it was a slower burn than Vax and Keyleth were, but was a good payoff. Not sure if they’re selling it quite well enough in between the breakneck pace of trying to get the rest of the campaign into 4 or 5 seasons.