Keep rowing against the tide my man Mark. Finally a great shmup channel where i learn a lot in a world where mainstream media keep getting worse and worse. Just want to send some love from Portugal. You inspire me a lot. Please keep doing it.
Tangential to this review, but did you know there was an interview released on denfamicogamer a couple of days ago featuring Ikeda and ZUN? Not sure how much of the information is new but I thought it was interesting.
We all know the outcome, if you saw his rom "release" review from 3 years ago. The X360 was already laggy with issues. So what happens when the X360 is dumped on the switch? That's right, same issues with more lag 😲. The chance that M2 will do a proper release anytime soon is close to 0%, so it's either this, Mame or Ex Arcadia
Yes I think this is exactly right, since the 360 port is well made feature wise and close enough performance wise the game will probably always be chained to the 360 version for home releases. This is why I was bummed out to see it just be locked to the switch here, because a PC release or PS4 release could have been a great opportunity for the 360 port to have it's issues patched up, rather than increased slightly.
@ unfortunately not. He mentioned you can emulate this x360 game directly on your pc and it still wouldn’t matter. The lag is in the source: the X360 game. Unless you can adjust the game itself (probably need a source code or can reverse engineer it or something like that), you are basically stuck with what you got. Just played the Novice mode on the actual X360 again. It is playable, but I can imagine micro dodging on the x360 is getting near impossible if the number of bullets and speed are increased.
The switch is such an oddball of a port machine. You'd think it'd be the best time to put effort into a port for the system considering it's install base size....but the quality of ports across genres is bafflingly inconsistent. 😥
It is a very tough task for any company doing a Switch port because: • SHMUPs don't sell all that well. It is known that most M2 ShotTrigger ports are done *_at a loss_* as passion projects from the devs in-between major projects. • Doing a port of any kind is a difficult job. Even industry veterans frequently mess up due to the process of updating old code. Just look at the Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Collection that released in 2018 and how it was lambasted for running significantly worse and having less features than the Fightcade versions. • The Switch is very underpowered, having at best the performance of a base PS4 and at worst the performance of a PS3. It's why many major devs will make multiplatform releases for PS4, PS5, Xbox Series S/X and Steam but skip the Switch despite its massive playerbase.
Yeah it's becoming sort of mobile like in a way, which I know would make Iwata sad to hear, but that is what is happening. There is a real emphasis on quantity over quality which I know is how these devs make money, sadly, but yeah look at stuff like the City Connection Saturn ports on Switch, they are laggy barbones garbage that they just plug in the roms and sell. Live Wire are at least a step above that but the lack of online leaderboards is a real sign that they are just trying to push these releases out the door. I honestly don't know why they don't do PS4 versions as well? I can only assume because the PS4 versions don't sell and the Switch ports do. I like how Shottriggers does both, I do think that's the best solution. Let the switch version sell and pay the bills and then have the ps4 version for the hardcore players, I think that balance makes sense.
Nice to see mark and so many people appreciating this game, it's really good, been an important game for me. Since this game resurfaced now on Switch I've seen some people dunking on the difficulty or certain clowns seething about the character design and that was not great to see lol
You know what's funny about this review, is that I'm really glad I separated it into two parts because as a game I love SDOJ, I think it's incredible and my appreciation for its difficulty and level design have really grown since being able to play it in NEO. And then as a result, I'm actually really bummed out by how barebones the Switch port ended up being (literally losing features from the 360 version like online leaderboards) plus the additional lag that I do see it as a big missed opportunity. But sometimes I know it can be tricky to see the difference in my appreciation for the arcade version of a game vs the port for new-comers to the genre, so I'm hoping this 2 part structure really helps make that distinction a bit more visible because yes, as a game I do really love SDOJ. It's my 3rd fav in the series after DDP and DOJ.
Mushihimesama Futari NEEDS a port done by M2. It is way too popular and way too important to the genre not to. After that, I do agree that Ibara is in desperate need of a port.
ME TOO! That's funny you mention Ibara because that is also at the top of my wishlist for shottrigger ports (along with DDP of course). Ibara could really benefit from one immensely I think.
Man SDOJ is one tough beast. Bullet patterns are fast and I have a hard time getting used to the hitbox! But what I love about SDOJ (aside from the bright neon colors and OST) is the pacing. All stuff and no fluff! Better make sure you scratch that itch before you play because finding a good place to pause is hard lol
EXACTLY Hooks! And that's something I really want to point out in the review because yes, it's pacing was actually taking the series in a really interesting direction that I would have loved to see CAVE continue with if they were able to make more games. Though I do know that Clover TAC is a MASSIVE SDOJ fan and player (had world records at one point) so I bet it would be interesting to go back to CCWE and see how much it inherits SDOJ's pace. That would be a fun topic to cover on a livestream or something.
Ok let me guess. Livewire said, "we ported three different CAVE games INCLUDING Daifukkatsu, people would be more than happy to accept this instead". Which sounds like it sucks because this was the last game ever developed by CAVE... released in 2012. So there could have been a higher standard of quality going into the Switch.
I love sdoj and think it makes a lot of sense to do a new port of, especially because the 360 port has lag issues. So the idea is great, but in terms of the actual result the extra lag and lack of online leaderboards really makes this a release that feels incomplete or a step back from 360 even
Great review - I really agree with so much of it as a less skilled player. The lack of online leaderboards in the LiveWire Switch ports has been so frustrating and I’m so glad I bought the 360 version off the 360 Japanese digital store before that close down because even at my skill level the online leaderboards have been so much fun. The way that chaining is less integral to the game is part of the reason why it’s so much more fun to me to play than any other post-pixel art DDP game for me, even with the input lag. I really enjoy every mode in it, no matter how difficult, partially because of the wave density that you talked about. For me, practicing chaining in DOJ felt way too much like practicing combos in fighting games (which I lost interest in doing back in the 90s because getting good at it never felt rewarding to me compared to learning special moves/supers). I agree with you about the arrange mode being really good, too, and it is indeed my favorite arrange mode outside of Ketsui Deathtiny. As far as the LiveWire CAVE ports on Switch, yes, they do go on sale. To use DFK on Switch as an example, it was discounted twice in 2022, 5 times in 2023 and 5 times in 2024 (before the de-listing).
Honestly, being a casual is a blessing in disguise. It gives you a much larger tolerance for quirks and issues, which allows you to enjoy a much larger amount of games. Unless you are trying to get in international leaderboards, you don't need "the cream of the crop". That said, some things should be industry standard. IMO, less than 7 frames of input lag and a robust training mode with in-game save states are essential. Otherwise, I can't commit to the 1CC for more than a week. 😅
@@girokulo After watching Mark's review live, my suggestion is for anyone who isn't a hardcore player to purchase this port *_at a discount._* The 5 to 6 frames of input lack and shoddy training mode are a real shame, but I don't think most casual players would mind. If it was something crazy like 8 frames of input lag or more I'd say "HELL NO!", but from both personal experience and the opinion of some friends, most folk don't notice input lag when it's 6 frames or lower. But 35 USD seems excessive for such a barebones porting job, specially when you consider that most people will only play this once or twice and never touch it again.
I played this on Xenia in 2022 and I had blast with it! However, I do agree that we need more real PC ports of CAVE games. Something I like about you and your channel is that you don’t sugarcoat _anything_; you tell it how it is! Even if I disagree with some of your videos such the RE4 remake or the Iwata era video, I respect the enthusiasm. I wish more. UA-cam channels were like this.
Yeah SDOJ is so elusive, it's frustrating at times ha. I do wish we could just get a solid PC or PS4 port and be all on the same page ha. The Switch port just by the nature of the hardware (and also the lack of online leaderboards which is insane) still sells the game short of having a definitive release. The closest is def the 360 version, but now that the shop is closed getting that is a pain as well. I think our best hope is some kind of PC port in the future.
I wish devs didn't hate us PC players lol, I'm getting really tired of everything under the sun getting ported to ps4 and switch, meanwhile the last game we got is, like, Deathsmiles 2 or Akai Katana, despite PC being the most powerful hardware? I'm very happy to have both of those games of course but damn if it doesn't sting seeing Espgaluda 2, Daioujou, Saidaioujou, Battle Garegga, Dangun Feveron and others getting ported everywhere except PC...
Oh i tested this years ago, it's a good deal better I believe. Striker 2 is 4 frames, which is acceptable but nowhere near as good as when you emulate it on FB Neo ha. Still though 4 is acceptable. I personally always prefer to play at 3 or lower, but the game should run decently enough on ps4. No extra features though, and psikyo really need those save states I think, for more effective practice. I guess practice the game on emu and then do the runs on the ps4 version I suppose, if you want to use the ps4 leaderboard.
I think it plays well and I am more than happy with it! I only play handheld though. Happy to wait for the Steam port, I'm sure it will come in the new year.
It's not a terrible release but it s ultimately one that I think feels better initially, especially if you don't have the Xbox 360 version. But with the extra lag and especially with the lack of online leaderboards it really doesn't have anywhere to grow in the long term. Hopefully the switch version is just the start and they will bring it to PC or PS4 with online leaderboards, but it seems like live wire only do switch that I am aware of.
They published RSG on PC and Switch. However, they only released Espgaluda 2 for Switch, so it could go either way. They tend to stick away from PS4 sadly.
I wonder if the Switch’s successor, being backwardly compatible, would add anything to this. For instance, would there be a reduction in latency on the more powerful system?
Yeah I really should do something like that! I also want to do one for SDOJ, maybe I could do them as a livestream? That could be really cool I think. Where I get the 1cc and then play them back and do a commentary live on air.
I would be willing to bet, yes, yes indeed. Because it makes a lot of sense for Live Wire to sell the game physically (money wise) and they did do a physical release of Mushi on switch. I'd recommend picking up SDOJ on 360 physically, but it's insanely expensive now of course. So yeah for physical copies of the game I bet the Switch one will be reasonably priced. Shame there isn't a ps4 version though, I'd actually get that if they got the lag lower and had online leaderboards.
Yeah exactly, if we got a PC or Console port that would open up a lot of opportunity for a better performing version. On PC especially because we could probably get in there and start chopping at lack manually, which I think has happened with the silvergun PC version if I recall.
Guess what game i recently got myself an Xbox 360 for? It was actually kinda funny to see the Switch Version being announced pretty much right after i ordered the game for Xbox, lol. But i don't regret it, as i always wanted to own the Physical Limited Edition of the game, and the Switch Version not being the greatest. I hoped that they would maybe include the Exa Label and work on the input lag, but since the Exa Label is not included, the input lag is worse, and they didn't even add online leaderboards, i have absolutely no reason to get the Switch Version, and i also hate the Joycons and don't wan't to get a Pro Controller. The Switches popularity has kind of unleashed a curse, where developers try to release their games for the Switch instead of actually good consoles or PC, just because the Switch is the thing that most people have and it will probably sell best on there unfortunately. About your Review of the game itself, i can only agree. The 360 Mode is a lot of fun and i love how the Health Bar shakes up the way you approach the game. Usually in Shmups you try to build up a lot of resources, and often times in the late game you can already pretty much tell if the run is won or not, based on how many resources you have left. Playing well in the eariler parts of the game can cause the Final Boss to be a total pushover, but doing a mistake in the eariler parts makes you want to restart instantly. The Health Bar completely changes this, as you can still refill it after doing mistakes in the eariler Stages, but playing well in those earlier Stages doesn't give you much of an advantage in the late game. The consequences of your actions basically stay the same for the whole game, and i love to have this option of playing the game. I also agree that the little goodies in the shop are pretty fun, this is the type of little extra content i always love to see. Overall, SDOJ is probably my favorite of the DoDonPachi Series, and generally one of my Favorite Shmups. I've learned to love it even more after getting the Xbox Version with all the extra stuff. For a long time i have hoped to see a rerelease of this game, best would have been for Steam with fixed input lag and the Exa Label included. After many years i gave up on hoping and just got myself an Xbox. When i then saw the game being released for Switch, i got a little bit of hope. But now since the game is out and it's just a worse Version of the Xbox port, i think it is pretty much safe to say that there will never be a proper port of this game for modern consoles and PC, what a shame. Also i think i have never seen anybody acknowledging the Challenges in the game, but they don't seem to be anything too fancy anyways and i can't read the Challenge descriptions so in most of them i often fail the mission without even knowing what i did wrong, lol. (Blue Revolver did the Mission mode much better) Great Video though!! Great to see you Reviewing SDOJ :D
I havent tried to alter the replay yet, but th3 xbox 360 does thatt at least, u loved that about the DOJ PS2 port. Its cool feature. Hey, its better than playing Knuckles on my Anbernic when Im wanting to play away from the house or in bed, still good enough to practice from. As with Crimson Clover, if youre playing on the native screen you save some lag, if you have good eyes and a Arcade style holder like the Mushi or ESP ones from Japan. Still gotta use an arcade stick out the side for best results. Have good eyes
I'd argue that this port is very useful, think of the massive audience the Switch has, more eyes on premium shmups is good for all of us, and the flawed Switch port becomes a gateway drug for new players. Of course once they have one foot in the door they can look for better ways to play these games, but we gotta get 'em in first!
Flawed how exactly? If in regards to input lag, this dude said the 360 version had 5 frames of input lag and this version also apparently has 5, at worst, its on par with the previous version, not better nor worse. However, this version actually has adjustments to the processing slowdown, making it slightly better instead, make it make sense.
this is true! Im someone who just got into the genre a couple months ago thanks to the ports on switch (mushihimesama being my gateway) and although the switch may not have the perfect ports they are perfectly serviceable for someone just starting. so far I've played mushi, esp ra de, thunder force 4 and G Darius and will check this game when it goes on sale or gets a physical.
At least it's more readily available on a console with far more reach. More potential Cave fans/customers. Though the way Live Wire handles things, and their recent delistings has me worried. We might only have this around for like a year, and a physical might not happen. Usually they announce those prior to the digital drop.
At least? This was one of CAVE’s most important arcade games because: A. They left arcade releases in 2012 so this could be their last shmup released. B. Very few playthroughs exists online beating TLB. The cost is simply too high for near arcade perfect accuracy just to have someone record footage. To say this game dropped to very poor tech issues is upsetting, if this is what we get on switch, we have to pray Livewire tries better if their PC port is announced.
11:58 if i remember correctly Raiden (1 or 2) also using similiar concept like that for the enemies. like small helicopter at stage 5 goes way down to player area and then moving horizontally to persuit player.not to mention the bullet is also way faster. cmiiw
Bummer. I'm conflicted on the purchase of this port. I've never played it and really want to play it but I don't want to send out the message that this type of product is acceptable. I might actually start to explore getting a PC and digging in on emulation. Thanks for the coverage Mark!
damn it! no emulation available? So were stuck with this laggier version or the xbox laggy version? Come on M2! I'll triple dip! (ps4, switch, digital)
@@HitserOner there's a ROM of the arcade version of SaiDaiOuJou, which is playable without hassle on a single, specific version (!) of the MAME emulator, but it's tricky to find. there was only around a two-week period between the ROM getting published and exA-Arcadia dropping a cease and desist on the emulator site, hence why only one version of the emulator "reads" the SDOJ ROM and why it's not openly available.
@@nanirevie Search Dodonpachi Saidaioujou, should present you a finding on internet archive, there should be a zip file with 1,12gb. I think there are all Cave CV1000 games included. And the MAME version that you need. Worked for me. Could not get Saidaioujou working acceptable with retroarch, sadly, as that would be my preferred way to play the game. Also bought the Switch version, because in my opinion it is worth to own a legitimate copy of the game.
i think Cave nailed for Novice mode in SDOJ. i feels like playing normal mode (like how i play easy mode (even on very easy) Radiant Silvergun. like very balanced normal difficulty for newcomer/casual player) and Arcade is feels like Maniac mode (and Ultra mode if player choose EX/Strip doll weapon.) Also i like how Saya mode (or Xbox360 mode) is basically like Novice mode with more manageable resource that feels more appealing to casual player. and also kinda wild to this mode that include Hibachi boss i think because story related Cave has to include that..
25:22 Only cool part about this game [DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou] is SuperEasy mode, they can drop everything else, make it 3D and it would be a huge success.
I felt the opposite on the pacing of SDOJ. That game could have really benefited from some 1-2 second pacing breaks and opportunities to reset. As is, it’s a bit exhausting, but not really in a fun way.
@@cyxcevenWhich is weird, because apparently, someone helped with making adjustments to the processing slowdown. So in other words, why would I try to hunt down a 360 copy of this game when the more convenient option is right in front of me, Señor Bozo doesn’t understand how little I actually give half a darn about input lag (spoilers, I don’t) & I’ve generally been avoiding his videos like mad since I do not want to engage with his trash opinions.
@@albertocamacho2261 He mentioned that just the oled switch gave the game 1 more fps. I have several games I’m hoping will be ”fixed” by simply having more powerful hardware to rely on. 🙂
I love being constantly charged top dollar for ports of 10 year old games with minimum effort! Arcade shmup ports are great! Also can we please just put stuff on steam? Want battle garegga? Better have a ps4! Want SDOJ? Hope you want to play it on switch!
What’s the deal with paying the mame Rom on run ahead emulator on a crt? Has anyone tried that ?. People Don’t realise what a huge difference playing on a tated 29” tv feels like as it’s such a ball ache to set up but well worth it. Totally different feeling .
Sadly, such a missed opportunity, bought it and played it, but sadly nothing new. Glad I got my 360 version...hopefully exa will be dumped some day and we can play it naively on windows...OR even better, if Exa decide to make their version available thru steam or whateva...
@AWMonopolyMan I guess it depends on what you mean by acceptable? The CPU in the Switch was designed for Android tablets a decade ago. The primary use case was web browsing and video. It was never intended for high memory bandwidth or low latency.
@ Cotton Fantasy only has 3 frames of Input Lag on Switch, saying always means each and every game without fail should always be 6+ frames of input lag without fail (which according to multiple people, is horrible, yet the Sega Saturn basically natively had those numbers for its official ports of Cotton back in the day yet no one batted an eye).
@@AWMonopolyMan Building a modern game that specifically targets the Switch hardware is very different from emulating a custom arcade board that was designed to throw around as many sprites as possible.
@ Now you’re just shifting goalposts as Cotton Fantasy is also technically a Japanese Arcade game, that can also toss a lot of stuff at you at once & isn’t only on Switch either. There are also emulation collections that run perfectly fine on Switch as well, maybe you should stop taking this dude’s word as gospel and understand what double standards means as having “equal input lag” to a prior version (and basically being said prior version), doesn’t make it worse you know and this version has adjustments to processing slowdown, making this version a bit better by default. But then again, you did specifically say “Switch ports will always have bad input lag” and I went and proved you wrong directly, proving, best not to generalize as it is too easy to knock a generalization down
Since I refuse to watch this video and since I have read comments on the “input lag readings” of this port, I can safely assume you whiteholed your own memories of the 360’s input lag readings and claim this port is somehow “worse” despite having the same input lag, you do understand having identical input lag to the 360 doesn’t make it worse than that version, at its worst, its only on par with it, it would need a new more notable issue to make it worse. Which sadly if going by one Chantake (who apparently works for City Connection and helped Livewire with this port), they helped with adjustments to processing slowdown in this port, which by default makes this port better by default compared to the no longer legally obtainable 360 version. Then again, you sure love lying through your teeth more than you ever tell the truth nowadays, so I am not surprised anymore, you also love to lie about Cotton 2/Boomerang/Guardian Force if given a chance, claim people have a medical condition if they cannot notice input lag, basically you are quite literally an elitist and a gatekeeper to boot, I award you no points and may your clown levels of pity continue to know no bounds.
Speaking of clowns, how weird is it to click onto a video, go straight to the comments to announce you won't be watching it, then proceed to make wrong assumptions of the information given in the review that you didn't watch.
If M2 doesn't release a modern Futari port themselves I WILL cry.
wonder if its locked to microsoft or something
Merry Christmas Mark and everyone dodging bullets
The best beginner shmup is whichever one looks the coolest and feels the best to play for the individual.
I love being bullied by hot JGirls.
Ha hot JGirls and amazing level design, the two things we all want to be bullied by :-)
I'm still......where's the Steam version.
Keep rowing against the tide my man Mark. Finally a great shmup channel where i learn a lot in a world where mainstream media keep getting worse and worse. Just want to send some love from Portugal. You inspire me a lot. Please keep doing it.
Tangential to this review, but did you know there was an interview released on denfamicogamer a couple of days ago featuring Ikeda and ZUN? Not sure how much of the information is new but I thought it was interesting.
We all know the outcome, if you saw his rom "release" review from 3 years ago. The X360 was already laggy with issues. So what happens when the X360 is dumped on the switch? That's right, same issues with more lag 😲. The chance that M2 will do a proper release anytime soon is close to 0%, so it's either this, Mame or Ex Arcadia
Yes I think this is exactly right, since the 360 port is well made feature wise and close enough performance wise the game will probably always be chained to the 360 version for home releases. This is why I was bummed out to see it just be locked to the switch here, because a PC release or PS4 release could have been a great opportunity for the 360 port to have it's issues patched up, rather than increased slightly.
Would switch emulation fix the lag issues?
@ unfortunately not. He mentioned you can emulate this x360 game directly on your pc and it still wouldn’t matter. The lag is in the source: the X360 game. Unless you can adjust the game itself (probably need a source code or can reverse engineer it or something like that), you are basically stuck with what you got. Just played the Novice mode on the actual X360 again. It is playable, but I can imagine micro dodging on the x360 is getting near impossible if the number of bullets and speed are increased.
Yeah, coping for Batrider or Futari it is
@@GeoSin73 ah makes sense. That's unfortunate
The switch is such an oddball of a port machine. You'd think it'd be the best time to put effort into a port for the system considering it's install base size....but the quality of ports across genres is bafflingly inconsistent. 😥
It is a very tough task for any company doing a Switch port because:
• SHMUPs don't sell all that well. It is known that most M2 ShotTrigger ports are done *_at a loss_* as passion projects from the devs in-between major projects.
• Doing a port of any kind is a difficult job. Even industry veterans frequently mess up due to the process of updating old code. Just look at the Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Collection that released in 2018 and how it was lambasted for running significantly worse and having less features than the Fightcade versions.
• The Switch is very underpowered, having at best the performance of a base PS4 and at worst the performance of a PS3. It's why many major devs will make multiplatform releases for PS4, PS5, Xbox Series S/X and Steam but skip the Switch despite its massive playerbase.
Yeah it's becoming sort of mobile like in a way, which I know would make Iwata sad to hear, but that is what is happening. There is a real emphasis on quantity over quality which I know is how these devs make money, sadly, but yeah look at stuff like the City Connection Saturn ports on Switch, they are laggy barbones garbage that they just plug in the roms and sell. Live Wire are at least a step above that but the lack of online leaderboards is a real sign that they are just trying to push these releases out the door. I honestly don't know why they don't do PS4 versions as well? I can only assume because the PS4 versions don't sell and the Switch ports do. I like how Shottriggers does both, I do think that's the best solution. Let the switch version sell and pay the bills and then have the ps4 version for the hardcore players, I think that balance makes sense.
Nice thumbnail, Mark
Thanks my dude!! Bog did excellent work on this one :-)
Nice to see mark and so many people appreciating this game, it's really good, been an important game for me. Since this game resurfaced now on Switch I've seen some people dunking on the difficulty or certain clowns seething about the character design and that was not great to see lol
It's fine to be critical of the waifu trappings. The game would be just as good without it.
You know what's funny about this review, is that I'm really glad I separated it into two parts because as a game I love SDOJ, I think it's incredible and my appreciation for its difficulty and level design have really grown since being able to play it in NEO. And then as a result, I'm actually really bummed out by how barebones the Switch port ended up being (literally losing features from the 360 version like online leaderboards) plus the additional lag that I do see it as a big missed opportunity. But sometimes I know it can be tricky to see the difference in my appreciation for the arcade version of a game vs the port for new-comers to the genre, so I'm hoping this 2 part structure really helps make that distinction a bit more visible because yes, as a game I do really love SDOJ. It's my 3rd fav in the series after DDP and DOJ.
I hope M2 Shottriggers get more Cave shmups out. The one I'm really interested in is Ibara. I don't think its been ported anywhere else except PS2
Mushihimesama Futari NEEDS a port done by M2.
It is way too popular and way too important to the genre not to.
After that, I do agree that Ibara is in desperate need of a port.
ME TOO! That's funny you mention Ibara because that is also at the top of my wishlist for shottrigger ports (along with DDP of course). Ibara could really benefit from one immensely I think.
@@BknMoonStudios They did the 360 port, wish cave would let them redo it though.
Man SDOJ is one tough beast. Bullet patterns are fast and I have a hard time getting used to the hitbox! But what I love about SDOJ (aside from the bright neon colors and OST) is the pacing. All stuff and no fluff! Better make sure you scratch that itch before you play because finding a good place to pause is hard lol
EXACTLY Hooks! And that's something I really want to point out in the review because yes, it's pacing was actually taking the series in a really interesting direction that I would have loved to see CAVE continue with if they were able to make more games. Though I do know that Clover TAC is a MASSIVE SDOJ fan and player (had world records at one point) so I bet it would be interesting to go back to CCWE and see how much it inherits SDOJ's pace. That would be a fun topic to cover on a livestream or something.
"[x] could have learned [y] from Double Action" is going to be the most uttered phrase about new shmup releases for the rest of the decade.
Ok let me guess. Livewire said, "we ported three different CAVE games INCLUDING Daifukkatsu, people would be more than happy to accept this instead". Which sounds like it sucks because this was the last game ever developed by CAVE... released in 2012. So there could have been a higher standard of quality going into the Switch.
I love sdoj and think it makes a lot of sense to do a new port of, especially because the 360 port has lag issues. So the idea is great, but in terms of the actual result the extra lag and lack of online leaderboards really makes this a release that feels incomplete or a step back from 360 even
So i m well served with my xbox 360 port 😂😅
Great review - I really agree with so much of it as a less skilled player. The lack of online leaderboards in the LiveWire Switch ports has been so frustrating and I’m so glad I bought the 360 version off the 360 Japanese digital store before that close down because even at my skill level the online leaderboards have been so much fun.
The way that chaining is less integral to the game is part of the reason why it’s so much more fun to me to play than any other post-pixel art DDP game for me, even with the input lag. I really enjoy every mode in it, no matter how difficult, partially because of the wave density that you talked about.
For me, practicing chaining in DOJ felt way too much like practicing combos in fighting games (which I lost interest in doing back in the 90s because getting good at it never felt rewarding to me compared to learning special moves/supers).
I agree with you about the arrange mode being really good, too, and it is indeed my favorite arrange mode outside of Ketsui Deathtiny.
As far as the LiveWire CAVE ports on Switch, yes, they do go on sale. To use DFK on Switch as an example, it was discounted twice in 2022, 5 times in 2023 and 5 times in 2024 (before the de-listing).
I realize im a casual player when in my perspective this port is beautiful and then i read these thumbnails😂😂
Honestly, being a casual is a blessing in disguise.
It gives you a much larger tolerance for quirks and issues, which allows you to enjoy a much larger amount of games.
Unless you are trying to get in international leaderboards, you don't need "the cream of the crop".
That said, some things should be industry standard.
IMO, less than 7 frames of input lag and a robust training mode with in-game save states are essential.
Otherwise, I can't commit to the 1CC for more than a week. 😅
@BknMoonStudios sounds fair👍
@@girokulo After watching Mark's review live, my suggestion is for anyone who isn't a hardcore player to purchase this port *_at a discount._*
The 5 to 6 frames of input lack and shoddy training mode are a real shame, but I don't think most casual players would mind.
If it was something crazy like 8 frames of input lag or more I'd say "HELL NO!", but from both personal experience and the opinion of some friends, most folk don't notice input lag when it's 6 frames or lower.
But 35 USD seems excessive for such a barebones porting job, specially when you consider that most people will only play this once or twice and never touch it again.
I played this on Xenia in 2022 and I had blast with it! However, I do agree that we need more real PC ports of CAVE games.
Something I like about you and your channel is that you don’t sugarcoat _anything_; you tell it how it is! Even if I disagree with some of your videos such the RE4 remake or the Iwata era video, I respect the enthusiasm. I wish more. UA-cam channels were like this.
I’ve been wanting to play this one for so long.
Yeah SDOJ is so elusive, it's frustrating at times ha. I do wish we could just get a solid PC or PS4 port and be all on the same page ha. The Switch port just by the nature of the hardware (and also the lack of online leaderboards which is insane) still sells the game short of having a definitive release. The closest is def the 360 version, but now that the shop is closed getting that is a pain as well. I think our best hope is some kind of PC port in the future.
I wish devs didn't hate us PC players lol, I'm getting really tired of everything under the sun getting ported to ps4 and switch, meanwhile the last game we got is, like, Deathsmiles 2 or Akai Katana, despite PC being the most powerful hardware? I'm very happy to have both of those games of course but damn if it doesn't sting seeing Espgaluda 2, Daioujou, Saidaioujou, Battle Garegga, Dangun Feveron and others getting ported everywhere except PC...
How is the lag on the ps4 versions of the Psikyo collections ?
Oh i tested this years ago, it's a good deal better I believe. Striker 2 is 4 frames, which is acceptable but nowhere near as good as when you emulate it on FB Neo ha. Still though 4 is acceptable. I personally always prefer to play at 3 or lower, but the game should run decently enough on ps4. No extra features though, and psikyo really need those save states I think, for more effective practice. I guess practice the game on emu and then do the runs on the ps4 version I suppose, if you want to use the ps4 leaderboard.
@TheElectricUnderground ok cool thanks for the info
I think it plays well and I am more than happy with it! I only play handheld though. Happy to wait for the Steam port, I'm sure it will come in the new year.
It's not a terrible release but it s ultimately one that I think feels better initially, especially if you don't have the Xbox 360 version. But with the extra lag and especially with the lack of online leaderboards it really doesn't have anywhere to grow in the long term. Hopefully the switch version is just the start and they will bring it to PC or PS4 with online leaderboards, but it seems like live wire only do switch that I am aware of.
@@TheElectricUnderground They did RSG right? Or did someone else take care of it and just publish it under their name?
They published RSG on PC and Switch. However, they only released Espgaluda 2 for Switch, so it could go either way. They tend to stick away from PS4 sadly.
I wonder if the Switch’s successor, being backwardly compatible, would add anything to this. For instance, would there be a reduction in latency on the more powerful system?
Could you make a playthrough video with commentary on Under Defeat please? Thanks
UD is so good :p
This. My most hyped shmup of the year.
Yeah I really should do something like that! I also want to do one for SDOJ, maybe I could do them as a livestream? That could be really cool I think. Where I get the 1cc and then play them back and do a commentary live on air.
Do we know if this port will be getting a physical release? Would love to have it on my shelf
I would be willing to bet, yes, yes indeed. Because it makes a lot of sense for Live Wire to sell the game physically (money wise) and they did do a physical release of Mushi on switch. I'd recommend picking up SDOJ on 360 physically, but it's insanely expensive now of course. So yeah for physical copies of the game I bet the Switch one will be reasonably priced. Shame there isn't a ps4 version though, I'd actually get that if they got the lag lower and had online leaderboards.
i love sdoj! if only pc port, one day...
sdoj black label or similar seems like a very cool idea
Good review. The lack of leaderboards is a shame, but the rest of the port looks as I expected. I’ll wait for a physical release before picking it up
Great vid Mark. Basically keep waiting for a better port on PC or PS4 for this one 😞 Merry xmas everyone!
Yeah exactly, if we got a PC or Console port that would open up a lot of opportunity for a better performing version. On PC especially because we could probably get in there and start chopping at lack manually, which I think has happened with the silvergun PC version if I recall.
Can you play SDOJ in Final Burn Neo these days?
Yeap. And other cores too. Retroarch launches the rom just fine. Just played a bit.
Guess what game i recently got myself an Xbox 360 for? It was actually kinda funny to see the Switch Version being announced pretty much right after i ordered the game for Xbox, lol. But i don't regret it, as i always wanted to own the Physical Limited Edition of the game, and the Switch Version not being the greatest. I hoped that they would maybe include the Exa Label and work on the input lag, but since the Exa Label is not included, the input lag is worse, and they didn't even add online leaderboards, i have absolutely no reason to get the Switch Version, and i also hate the Joycons and don't wan't to get a Pro Controller. The Switches popularity has kind of unleashed a curse, where developers try to release their games for the Switch instead of actually good consoles or PC, just because the Switch is the thing that most people have and it will probably sell best on there unfortunately.
About your Review of the game itself, i can only agree. The 360 Mode is a lot of fun and i love how the Health Bar shakes up the way you approach the game. Usually in Shmups you try to build up a lot of resources, and often times in the late game you can already pretty much tell if the run is won or not, based on how many resources you have left. Playing well in the eariler parts of the game can cause the Final Boss to be a total pushover, but doing a mistake in the eariler parts makes you want to restart instantly. The Health Bar completely changes this, as you can still refill it after doing mistakes in the eariler Stages, but playing well in those earlier Stages doesn't give you much of an advantage in the late game. The consequences of your actions basically stay the same for the whole game, and i love to have this option of playing the game. I also agree that the little goodies in the shop are pretty fun, this is the type of little extra content i always love to see. Overall, SDOJ is probably my favorite of the DoDonPachi Series, and generally one of my Favorite Shmups. I've learned to love it even more after getting the Xbox Version with all the extra stuff.
For a long time i have hoped to see a rerelease of this game, best would have been for Steam with fixed input lag and the Exa Label included. After many years i gave up on hoping and just got myself an Xbox. When i then saw the game being released for Switch, i got a little bit of hope. But now since the game is out and it's just a worse Version of the Xbox port, i think it is pretty much safe to say that there will never be a proper port of this game for modern consoles and PC, what a shame.
Also i think i have never seen anybody acknowledging the Challenges in the game, but they don't seem to be anything too fancy anyways and i can't read the Challenge descriptions so in most of them i often fail the mission without even knowing what i did wrong, lol. (Blue Revolver did the Mission mode much better) Great Video though!! Great to see you Reviewing SDOJ :D
I havent tried to alter the replay yet, but th3 xbox 360 does thatt at least, u loved that about the DOJ PS2 port. Its cool feature. Hey, its better than playing Knuckles on my Anbernic when Im wanting to play away from the house or in bed, still good enough to practice from. As with Crimson Clover, if youre playing on the native screen you save some lag, if you have good eyes and a Arcade style holder like the Mushi or ESP ones from Japan. Still gotta use an arcade stick out the side for best results. Have good eyes
I'd argue that this port is very useful, think of the massive audience the Switch has, more eyes on premium shmups is good for all of us, and the flawed Switch port becomes a gateway drug for new players. Of course once they have one foot in the door they can look for better ways to play these games, but we gotta get 'em in first!
Flawed how exactly? If in regards to input lag, this dude said the 360 version had 5 frames of input lag and this version also apparently has 5, at worst, its on par with the previous version, not better nor worse. However, this version actually has adjustments to the processing slowdown, making it slightly better instead, make it make sense.
this is true! Im someone who just got into the genre a couple months ago thanks to the ports on switch (mushihimesama being my gateway) and although the switch may not have the perfect ports they are perfectly serviceable for someone just starting. so far I've played mushi, esp ra de, thunder force 4 and G Darius and will check this game when it goes on sale or gets a physical.
At least it's more readily available on a console with far more reach. More potential Cave fans/customers. Though the way Live Wire handles things, and their recent delistings has me worried. We might only have this around for like a year, and a physical might not happen. Usually they announce those prior to the digital drop.
At least? This was one of CAVE’s most important arcade games because:
A. They left arcade releases in 2012 so this could be their last shmup released.
B. Very few playthroughs exists online beating TLB. The cost is simply too high for near arcade perfect accuracy just to have someone record footage.
To say this game dropped to very poor tech issues is upsetting, if this is what we get on switch, we have to pray Livewire tries better if their PC port is announced.
11:58 if i remember correctly Raiden (1 or 2) also using similiar concept like that for the enemies. like small helicopter at stage 5 goes way down to player area and then moving horizontally to persuit player.not to mention the bullet is also way faster. cmiiw
Does setting the switch to 480p help the lag slightly? Not expecting amazing results just something you've never mentioned.
Does this port have a higher resolution compared to the Xbox 360 port? 1080p docked?
how do u change to the funny tiny hitbox? menus r all in japanese.
Bummer. I'm conflicted on the purchase of this port. I've never played it and really want to play it but I don't want to send out the message that this type of product is acceptable. I might actually start to explore getting a PC and digging in on emulation. Thanks for the coverage Mark!
damn it! no emulation available? So were stuck with this laggier version or the xbox laggy version? Come on M2! I'll triple dip! (ps4, switch, digital)
@@HitserOner there's a ROM of the arcade version of SaiDaiOuJou, which is playable without hassle on a single, specific version (!) of the MAME emulator, but it's tricky to find.
there was only around a two-week period between the ROM getting published and exA-Arcadia dropping a cease and desist on the emulator site, hence why only one version of the emulator "reads" the SDOJ ROM and why it's not openly available.
@@nanirevie Do you know where to get that version of MAME?
@@nanirevie Search Dodonpachi Saidaioujou, should present you a finding on internet archive, there should be a zip file with 1,12gb. I think there are all Cave CV1000 games included. And the MAME version that you need. Worked for me. Could not get Saidaioujou working acceptable with retroarch, sadly, as that would be my preferred way to play the game. Also bought the Switch version, because in my opinion it is worth to own a legitimate copy of the game.
@marcossegon5433 that version is available on the MAME download site, just like every other version. it's version 0.239.
i think Cave nailed for Novice mode in SDOJ. i feels like playing normal mode (like how i play easy mode (even on very easy) Radiant Silvergun. like very balanced normal difficulty for newcomer/casual player) and Arcade is feels like Maniac mode (and Ultra mode if player choose EX/Strip doll weapon.) Also i like how Saya mode (or Xbox360 mode) is basically like Novice mode with more manageable resource that feels more appealing to casual player. and also kinda wild to this mode that include Hibachi boss i think because story related Cave has to include that..
Yo Mark. Have you ever played FURi ?
Why are Cave games almost non-existent on Steam platform?
Great review! I picked up Espgaluda 2 and i thiiink DFK on switch sale so cave games DO go on sale!
Merry Xmas
25:22 Only cool part about this game [DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou] is SuperEasy mode, they can drop everything else, make it 3D and it would be a huge success.
I felt the opposite on the pacing of SDOJ. That game could have really benefited from some 1-2 second pacing breaks and opportunities to reset. As is, it’s a bit exhausting, but not really in a fun way.
Oh wow you also got 5 frames! Well at least that validates my own analysis 😅
inb4 5 frames of input lag
That's what they're saying. Feels just like the 360 conversion.
😂😂😂😂
@@cyxcevenWhich is weird, because apparently, someone helped with making adjustments to the processing slowdown. So in other words, why would I try to hunt down a 360 copy of this game when the more convenient option is right in front of me, Señor Bozo doesn’t understand how little I actually give half a darn about input lag (spoilers, I don’t) & I’ve generally been avoiding his videos like mad since I do not want to engage with his trash opinions.
Would the switch OLED have less lag too? Lol
Biggest issue is Live Wire games getting delisted after a short period of time. Hope this one stays around.
I wonder how itll play on ryujinx harhar
Do this review again when the Switch successor arrives 🙂
I sure hope the swich 2 can help with performance but idk how that would work with input lag... we can dream
@@albertocamacho2261 He mentioned that just the oled switch gave the game 1 more fps. I have several games I’m hoping will be ”fixed” by simply having more powerful hardware to rely on. 🙂
that's crazy to me that switch lite is faster, funny enough because its my favourite way to play switch games
I love being constantly charged top dollar for ports of 10 year old games with minimum effort! Arcade shmup ports are great!
Also can we please just put stuff on steam? Want battle garegga? Better have a ps4! Want SDOJ? Hope you want to play it on switch!
What’s the deal with paying the mame Rom on run ahead emulator on a crt? Has anyone tried that ?.
People Don’t realise what a huge difference playing on a tated 29” tv feels like as it’s such a ball ache to set up but well worth it. Totally different feeling .
Sadly, such a missed opportunity, bought it and played it, but sadly nothing new.
Glad I got my 360 version...hopefully exa will be dumped some day and we can play it naively on windows...OR even better, if Exa decide to make their version available thru steam or whateva...
Exa will never make their games available on steam unfortunately
Man I hope M2 ports Futari before another developer tries to cash-in with an inferior barebones port
Perhaps BC on Switch 2 is the answer.
i like this port of sdoj cuz i dont own a 360 and i wanna play the 360 arrange
I've said this on twitter or X, and i'll say it again, probably the best version of sodj is the exa version
Or you could sell a few organs and get the Exa version instead.
Walmart has some hdmi to Av adapters
Maybe it improves on switch 2
we need PC ports for these...please...
Excited to know how much frame lag this port has!
Is the .nsp already out or do i need to get another switch?
Was looking forward to this, kind of disappointed. I think this is the first time Live Wire half-assed one of their ports.
Wasted portential. The sdoj neon aesthetic is also crazy. I don't like the switch as a shmup console in general, my hope is in fbneo.
ah yes, deluded management wanting development to happen instantly and ruining art because they want their bottom line. Ruins everything
i like cute girls.
Pretty disappointing port. But I can’t say I’m not surprised
I legitimately never thought that this port would be so trash. How do you mess up that badly?
Not trash but there was some wasted potential.
Man. This one is disappointing.
I think Livewire SUCKS
Their Espgaluda 2 port is very solid, but they are slowly creeping into City Connection tier with how little they seem to care now
Switch ports will always have bad input lag, the cpu is just not powerful enough
You say that yet there are multiple ports with perfectly fine or acceptable input lag, generalizations don’t suit you cuz.
@AWMonopolyMan I guess it depends on what you mean by acceptable? The CPU in the Switch was designed for Android tablets a decade ago.
The primary use case was web browsing and video. It was never intended for high memory bandwidth or low latency.
@ Cotton Fantasy only has 3 frames of Input Lag on Switch, saying always means each and every game without fail should always be 6+ frames of input lag without fail (which according to multiple people, is horrible, yet the Sega Saturn basically natively had those numbers for its official ports of Cotton back in the day yet no one batted an eye).
@@AWMonopolyMan Building a modern game that specifically targets the Switch hardware is very different from emulating a custom arcade board that was designed to throw around as many sprites as possible.
@ Now you’re just shifting goalposts as Cotton Fantasy is also technically a Japanese Arcade game, that can also toss a lot of stuff at you at once & isn’t only on Switch either. There are also emulation collections that run perfectly fine on Switch as well, maybe you should stop taking this dude’s word as gospel and understand what double standards means as having “equal input lag” to a prior version (and basically being said prior version), doesn’t make it worse you know and this version has adjustments to processing slowdown, making this version a bit better by default. But then again, you did specifically say “Switch ports will always have bad input lag” and I went and proved you wrong directly, proving, best not to generalize as it is too easy to knock a generalization down
NO steam no buy
Since I refuse to watch this video and since I have read comments on the “input lag readings” of this port, I can safely assume you whiteholed your own memories of the 360’s input lag readings and claim this port is somehow “worse” despite having the same input lag, you do understand having identical input lag to the 360 doesn’t make it worse than that version, at its worst, its only on par with it, it would need a new more notable issue to make it worse. Which sadly if going by one Chantake (who apparently works for City Connection and helped Livewire with this port), they helped with adjustments to processing slowdown in this port, which by default makes this port better by default compared to the no longer legally obtainable 360 version. Then again, you sure love lying through your teeth more than you ever tell the truth nowadays, so I am not surprised anymore, you also love to lie about Cotton 2/Boomerang/Guardian Force if given a chance, claim people have a medical condition if they cannot notice input lag, basically you are quite literally an elitist and a gatekeeper to boot, I award you no points and may your clown levels of pity continue to know no bounds.
Speaking of clowns, how weird is it to click onto a video, go straight to the comments to announce you won't be watching it, then proceed to make wrong assumptions of the information given in the review that you didn't watch.
You were the chosen one! It was said that you would *destroy* the lag, not join them!