I was just shown your video. I have been using a drop spindle for 45 years. I'm as fast as on a wheel. UA-camr Sally Pointer can also remark on grasped spinning. I learned grasped spinning for about the first six months until I had gained confidence and speed required to drop spin. When you first started speaking your spinning was slow and tightly overspun and you have wool on a linen distaff. It took me awhile to figure out you weren't spinning linen. Your spindle looks so much like mine and Sally Pointer's right down to its size and flywheel weight I have little doubt that if you kept it up you'd learn drop spinning. Everybody does. I stand and take two spins wrapping the first 6' between elbow and thumb and take another spin to spin 12' of yarn before wrapping it on the spindle. It's a dance. Your problem with the archaeologists is because this is like listening to a child talk about riding a bicycle who still has training wheels on his bike. The spindles you find in spinning stores seldom work well. The big wooden flywheels are for teaching only. They're much too slow for any practical use. The size and weight requirements of a spindle flywheel are pretty tight but within those constraints there can be a lot of leeway. I once got stuck in New York and went to a dog grooming salon and said I was a spinner. They gave me the entire fleece of a husky they had shorn that day. I took a bus home to middle America. I took a potato and stuck a pencil through it and used them as a supported spindle (set on the floor of the bus) and spun the dog's hair into enough yarn to crochet my sister a hat. Really warm hat but if you wet it it smelled like a dog.
The use case, I think, for differentiating grasped/suspended/supported is in spindle design more than spinning & drafting technique. Spindle designs vary broadly, but there are extremes that exclude one or more spinning styles: A grasped spindle should have a narrow tip for flicking that can be held between two subsidiary fingers (so most thorn-type spindles intended for supported spinning are out, unless you have enormous hands; any spindle with a hook becomes awkward and/or dangerous and/or prone to mangling the hook); it should be light enough to be held by the weaker fingers; it doesn't matter how the bottom of the spindle is shaped. A suspended spindle (for long suspension; long enough to draft with both hands) should have a hook or accept a half hitch (preferably a single half hitch; very narrow tips with out a whorl between the tip and the cop are challenging for beginners to handle with just one), should spin for at least twice as long as it takes to move your flicking hand to the fiber supply and back (so very light, centrally-weighted spindles are out), their weight shouldn't put the yarn under breaking strain, and it doesn't matter how the bottom of the spindle is shaped. A supported spindle should have a narrow tip for flicking (sturdy hooks are probably fine, but delicate ones may be unwise), and a narrow spot at the bottom to reduce friction. Supported spindles can be heavier than the yarn or the weak fingers can bear, though they should be light enough not to fatigue the flicking hand, or if heavier than that, tall enough to permit a thigh roll (e.g. Navajo spindles). As you demonstrate, a spindle with a narrow tip & base, which is light enough to hold with the weaker fingers, and spins for long enough with a half hitch to reach the fiber supply with both hands, can be used in any style which is convenient... but the existence of such spindles does not imply that all spindles are so versatile. :) A supported spindle
Thank you for presenting many sides of the subject of naming. I try not to get stopped by a name but ask questions to clarify and understand to draw parallels to my own experience. Neither is correct or incorrect, only different.
And the people who spun this way historically would have just called it "spinning"! I remember a conversation between North Americans about what to call a knit cap you wear to keep your head warm in winter. I grew up in Colorado and called it a stocking cap, but the Californians called it a beanie, the woman from Toronto called it a Toque, and the girls from the southern United States called it a toboggan, which I always understood to be a type of sled. And people will get heated over things like this!
Then there is the spinning horizontal I know one called Blackfoot spinning then there is the clasped where the spindle is sort of held in the palm and twisted with fingers.
I think you are onto something by separating the number of drafting hands onto its own axis. An additional factor to consider is woolen vs worsted. It's (hopefully obviously) a spectrum, but again we can look to the corners for exclusionary principles. I usually see you spin with at least some worsted character: (1) pulling out mostly untwisted fibers, and (2) smoothing and compressing the fibers as you draft them. With one hand anchored at the spindle, there is no way to manage a worsted style without the extra hand offered by the distaff. When it comes to woolen style spinning with a distaff, I have had some success with a sort of supported longdraw (pulling on already-spun yarn, and using the twist to draft out fibers without compression) but I find it more difficult to keep an even diameter, and the dressing of the distaff has a substantial effect on the results. I currently find it easier to manage woolen from rolags, but that's easily due to my inexperience with a distaff. Incorporating this axis, I would conclude the following: Grasped spindling and supported spindling both require a distaff for worsted-style spinning. Suspended (long suspension) spindling does not require a distaff for worsted-style spinning. If you're going to spin woolen from a distaff, pay more attention to prep.
Admittedly, and this is just my opinion, but I like having the different terms for the same thing. I believe it adds character and charm to the craft. It also emphasizes how each individual is unique. I've never had an issue with the terms you use. In fact, I use the terms grasped spinning myself. But, if someone uses a different term, it doesn't affect me. It's the same thing with the term American spinning. I actually use a different term, but I understand you just fine. Whatever you choose to call the different styles, I'm fine with.
I was just shown your video. I have been using a drop spindle for 45 years. I'm as fast as on a wheel. UA-camr Sally Pointer can also remark on grasped spinning. I learned grasped spinning for about the first six months until I had gained confidence and speed required to drop spin. When you first started speaking your spinning was slow and tightly overspun and you have wool on a linen distaff. It took me awhile to figure out you weren't spinning linen.
Your spindle looks so much like mine and Sally Pointer's right down to its size and flywheel weight I have little doubt that if you kept it up you'd learn drop spinning. Everybody does. I stand and take two spins wrapping the first 6' between elbow and thumb and take another spin to spin 12' of yarn before wrapping it on the spindle. It's a dance. Your problem with the archaeologists is because this is like listening to a child talk about riding a bicycle who still has training wheels on his bike.
The spindles you find in spinning stores seldom work well. The big wooden flywheels are for teaching only. They're much too slow for any practical use. The size and weight requirements of a spindle flywheel are pretty tight but within those constraints there can be a lot of leeway. I once got stuck in New York and went to a dog grooming salon and said I was a spinner. They gave me the entire fleece of a husky they had shorn that day. I took a bus home to middle America. I took a potato and stuck a pencil through it and used them as a supported spindle (set on the floor of the bus) and spun the dog's hair into enough yarn to crochet my sister a hat. Really warm hat but if you wet it it smelled like a dog.
The use case, I think, for differentiating grasped/suspended/supported is in spindle design more than spinning & drafting technique. Spindle designs vary broadly, but there are extremes that exclude one or more spinning styles:
A grasped spindle should have a narrow tip for flicking that can be held between two subsidiary fingers (so most thorn-type spindles intended for supported spinning are out, unless you have enormous hands; any spindle with a hook becomes awkward and/or dangerous and/or prone to mangling the hook); it should be light enough to be held by the weaker fingers; it doesn't matter how the bottom of the spindle is shaped.
A suspended spindle (for long suspension; long enough to draft with both hands) should have a hook or accept a half hitch (preferably a single half hitch; very narrow tips with out a whorl between the tip and the cop are challenging for beginners to handle with just one), should spin for at least twice as long as it takes to move your flicking hand to the fiber supply and back (so very light, centrally-weighted spindles are out), their weight shouldn't put the yarn under breaking strain, and it doesn't matter how the bottom of the spindle is shaped.
A supported spindle should have a narrow tip for flicking (sturdy hooks are probably fine, but delicate ones may be unwise), and a narrow spot at the bottom to reduce friction. Supported spindles can be heavier than the yarn or the weak fingers can bear, though they should be light enough not to fatigue the flicking hand, or if heavier than that, tall enough to permit a thigh roll (e.g. Navajo spindles).
As you demonstrate, a spindle with a narrow tip & base, which is light enough to hold with the weaker fingers, and spins for long enough with a half hitch to reach the fiber supply with both hands, can be used in any style which is convenient... but the existence of such spindles does not imply that all spindles are so versatile. :)
A supported spindle
Thank you for presenting many sides of the subject of naming. I try not to get stopped by a name but ask questions to clarify and understand to draw parallels to my own experience. Neither is correct or incorrect, only different.
And the people who spun this way historically would have just called it "spinning"!
I remember a conversation between North Americans about what to call a knit cap you wear to keep your head warm in winter. I grew up in Colorado and called it a stocking cap, but the Californians called it a beanie, the woman from Toronto called it a Toque, and the girls from the southern United States called it a toboggan, which I always understood to be a type of sled. And people will get heated over things like this!
Great video! what's your favorite fiber to spin and what is the fiber prep you use combed top/carded?
Then there is the spinning horizontal I know one called Blackfoot spinning then there is the clasped where the spindle is sort of held in the palm and twisted with fingers.
I think you are onto something by separating the number of drafting hands onto its own axis. An additional factor to consider is woolen vs worsted. It's (hopefully obviously) a spectrum, but again we can look to the corners for exclusionary principles. I usually see you spin with at least some worsted character: (1) pulling out mostly untwisted fibers, and (2) smoothing and compressing the fibers as you draft them. With one hand anchored at the spindle, there is no way to manage a worsted style without the extra hand offered by the distaff. When it comes to woolen style spinning with a distaff, I have had some success with a sort of supported longdraw (pulling on already-spun yarn, and using the twist to draft out fibers without compression) but I find it more difficult to keep an even diameter, and the dressing of the distaff has a substantial effect on the results. I currently find it easier to manage woolen from rolags, but that's easily due to my inexperience with a distaff.
Incorporating this axis, I would conclude the following:
Grasped spindling and supported spindling both require a distaff for worsted-style spinning.
Suspended (long suspension) spindling does not require a distaff for worsted-style spinning.
If you're going to spin woolen from a distaff, pay more attention to prep.
Admittedly, and this is just my opinion, but I like having the different terms for the same thing. I believe it adds character and charm to the craft. It also emphasizes how each individual is unique.
I've never had an issue with the terms you use. In fact, I use the terms grasped spinning myself. But, if someone uses a different term, it doesn't affect me.
It's the same thing with the term American spinning. I actually use a different term, but I understand you just fine.
Whatever you choose to call the different styles, I'm fine with.