Regarding the S7 and S8 stock naming, I was the Rolling Stock Asset Manager for Infraco SSL (the mock-privatised infraco for the sub-surface lines which predated the actual PPP companies). I can confirm the "S" in S-stock stands for Sub-Surface, since I was the one who renamed them from Bombardier's manufacturing classifications of Movia 236, 237 and 238, being respectively the 6-car, 7-car and 8-car variants. I cheekily used my new terminology in the Infraco SSL Rolling Stock Asset Management Plan in 2002, and Metronet and the rest of LU assumed this was an official decision. I knew LU traditionally used a letter for subsurface stock, and whilst historical fleets followed an alphabetical pattern (e.g. B to H, K to R, T) a more 'modern'' pattern was to somehow reflect the letter in the fleet's route, so A60/62 for Amersham, C69/77 for Circle, D78 for District. A fairly dim lightbulb moment suggested S for Subsurface, since I was not aware of a previous S stock - although I now know there was a very small (experimental?) S stock fleet in the 1930s. I also thought from an operational perspective it would be necessary to differentiate 6/7/8 car trains, so added the train length to S. This went against the grain of adding the order year (e.g. A60), but I thought the train length was more important than the order year. Of course subsequently (and with huge amounts of resignalling and civils works) we were able to dispense with the S6 train and create a combined S7 fleet that could be timetabled anywhere on the H&C, Circle and District.
Those trains are also great at accelerating AND braking, as I found out the hard one way one day on the Jubillee Line some years ago when the driver performed an emergency stop half way between Canada Water and Canary Wharf (then [may still be] longest section between stations on the Tube), where the trains get up to near 70mph. The force of the braking maneuvre threw me towards the end door and I effectively (and ironically) head-butted the breakglass emergency stop. Whilst my head hurt, amazingly the glass was not damaged. 🙂
On the subject of traction motors, I love the sound of the original Bay Area Rapid Transit stock's (A, B, and C) traction motors. The newer stock coming in (D and E) may sound similar but are nowhere near as satisfying. I still appreciate the new stock because it is far overdue.
Similar to the Class 323s up here. That sound is from the technology used to provide variable frequency AC for the induction motors. Its also very similar to that used in 80s FM Synthesis keyboards, e.g. Yamaha DX7 etc. So by extraction, if you like this sound, you're probably also a fan of A-Ha...
Yes the sound of the early 90's chopper circuits were much nicer than the squealing sound of later systems such as used on 1995 stock. For the nerdy the reason why the later systems just whine is they use higher frequency pulse-width-modulation which was made possible by the development of IGBTs (Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistors).
I think that 1996 Stock sound might be due to the use of GTOs (Gate Turnoff Thyristors). These didn't have the speed of the modern IGBT, so have a more pronounced lower frequency sound. Technical information on this subject gratefully received.
This brings back a memory: 20+ years ago, when I lived in greater Boston, there were two kinds of train in service on the MBTA Red Line, which we non-detail-oriented types knew only as the "old" and "new" trains. The "new" ones were silver, with red fabric seats and a recorded message system to make the announcements. The "old" ones were white, with black vinyl seats, and the driver had to make the PA announcements in real time. I always liked it when I got one of the old ones, because MBTA personnel _hate_ having to speak to the public, and the gruff brevity of their announcements always tickled me for some reason. Where the recorded system said "Now entering: Porter Square. Change here for the Commuter Rail," the live driver would just pick up the mic and bark "Pawtah," if you were lucky enough that he did anything at all. :)
fun fact: the 2009 stock trains were originally going to be used on the piccadilly line as well, but in 2014 (2014 stock) hence some of the grapoles being painted dark blue representing the line.
Bakerloo trains are the only ones where the doors open a fraction of a second before the train stops moving. It always seems strange to me when this happens, as if it's some sort of misdemeanour against health and safety.
I reckon that it's just alphabetical. The old flared stock (1938,47,49,and 59) were O,P,Q and R stock - then there was a break for A for Amersham, C for Circle and D for District, and the S stack continues from the R stock. The London trams are the same with them numerically following on from the original London trams withdrawn by 1952..........that's my theory at least
That part about the open gangways is so true! It's not like you can just move somewhere else without being noticed. The problem is that those annoying people are mostly teenagers or drunk so they will most definitely talk back at you.
I note how the ‘S’ stock carriage (sorry, ‘CAR’) sides taper inwards at the bottom. Many years ago I recall reading that the bottom of the ‘R’ stock (District & & Circle) tapered OUTWARDS as a design feature to make people step back from the platform edge. Yes, I’m old enough to remember their distinctive smell.
From LeviNZ.. again..we know you said "sub surface" and not "sub service" :-) K class in NZ were the North British-built 4-8-2 heavy duty locomotives imported about 1936. The NZ built models. in the Dunedin Hillside works were the Ka locos.. with a working life into the 1960s.
You did that so well, so obviously the next video, or two, should be a complete history of underground rolling stock. 😉 Says me enjoying your channel from Sydney. Sadly it's been more than 15 years since I've ridden the tube.
Another difference within the 92s is that the W&C Line 92 stock trains still have armrests, while the Central Line one don't. I much prefer the interior of the 95s to the 96s, as the 95s have tip up seats rather than the perch ones of the 96s
I lost $3000 carelessly trading on a platform then I was referred to Mr Ronald Clark and he recovered my Lost and made an extra profit of 8000$ I was amazed by his strategies.
In the mid 80s I used to take a slightly circuitous route home to Tooting Bec for the chance of getting on a 1938 stock Bakerloo line train between Embankment and Elephant & Castle. You could imagine yourself in some 1940s movie, hanging from a leather strap in the dim glow of the filament light bulbs. Happy days.
Used to love visiting London in the 80's and riding the Bkerloo, there is one sound I remember when power was shut off to coast into Baker Street and Picadilly Circus, a loud POP sound was it something to do with the Westinghouse or whatever brake they used? They didn't incluse that in the simulations on TS2-22 and the 1938 stock on TSW 2 Bakerloo route.
An excellent brief overview, just a couple of (probably not very) interesting facts. The W&C and Central Line trains are not interchangeable, and upcoming modifications will make them even less so. There was a plan at one point for an S6 train to replace C stock on the H&C and Circle Lines, until it was decided that it would be more sensible to use the same S7 as on the District Line.
From the shots of the W&C it appears these trains have not had the window frame modification done which are very visible on the Central trains. A mod to alleviate an issue with corrosion around the windows.
Quite often trains change from one line to the other at a moment's notice, some Hammersmith and City Line trains I believe change to a Distinct Line train and continue on.
Also the 92s on the Waterloo and City Line retain the original armrests that all the 92s had when new but as they were easy to break when vandalised all the 92s on the Central Line had them removed.
@@Wildcard71 W&C platforms are only long enough for the 4 car trains, as are the sidings and maintenance roads, including the turn back siding at Waterloo (5 road with the train wash)
I'm an ex-London boy who has lived in Australia for many many years I love watching your videos which keeps me up to date with what is going on on the Underground. Although I live in Australia I try and visit London as often as I can (every four of five years when covid allows) and when I visit I visit as a tourist and enjoy travelling on the underground. I have to admit I dislike how 'transverse' seating is nowadays almost non-existent. The underground travels far more on the surface than it does underground and looking out the window is extremely difficult when sitting in longitude seating.
I looove transverse seating! It's so much easier to avoid awkward eye contact with other people, and you can visually keep track of the stops much easier. Not to mention there's no awkward shuffling when you have to get off and there is someone blocking your way
I built the High Voltage unit for the 2009 and later stock at Bombardier in Västerås Sweden. All propultion units where built in Sweden. We refered to the two different units as VLU and SSL. I guess it stands for Victoria Line Undergound and Sub Surface Line.
VLU stands for Victoria Line Upgrade, the name of the project that upgraded the Victoria Line, including the supply of trains and the new Distance to Go Signaling System. You are correct with SSL: The London Underground was once notionally split into three: SSL, JNP (Jubilee, Northern and Piccadilly) and BCV (Bakerloo, Central and Victoria). Note that Central Line included Waterloo & City Line.
@@1963TOMB SSL, JNP & BCV. If I remember correctly they were the three units created with the intention of them being privatised (in the same way that BR's operating sectors had been split into the Train Operating Units, which became the Train Operating Companies ready to be privatised). Thankfully that privatisation hasn't happened, as the thought of the DfT having unlimited control of LU in the way they've have of the "private" TOCs is beyond worrying.
@@atraindriverTfL Employee here they were broken up into those 3 business units for the failed PPP initiative that was brought in 2 companies were in charge Metronet had BCV & SSL Tube Lines had JNP Metronet didn't do much of what they were contractually obliged to do and eventually went bust with TfL (who were against PPP) having to take them over. Tube Lines were much better than Metronet but eventually went bust and TfL again bought them making all TU operations in house. Some of the legacy contracts are still in the name of the old companies and thus they technically still exist but soon this will end. It's now all LU with the only differences being whether a line/station is deep tube or subsurface.
I can never remember which is which between the 1995 stock and the 1996 stock, all I do know is that my favourites are the Central line stock and the Jubilee and Victoria line stock, because they sound great and zoom off into the tunnels at about 100 mph off the end of the platform. I'm afraid the Metropolitan and District lines just aren't the same since they got rid of the A60 and D78 stock.
The ride on a fast Met service out to Amersham was something else when A stock were still around. Damn nearly bounced out of my seat on numerous occasions.
I, for one, am very much looking forward to the presentation on the oddities and engineering trains. I am old enough to recall the guard operated door stock, but can't recall when this vanished.
Actually the last guard operated Underground train was withdrawn from passenger service back in January 2000, it was the 1959 Tube Stock on the Northern Line
Excepting that the basic ‘look’ hasn’t changed much I have to say that newer deep level tube stock, with their slightly fussy look and bits remind me, strangely, of some of the earliest pre 1930s carriages. On the subsurface lines I’ve not warmed to the S stock, too boring and too much like overground trains and far too quiet but then I’m old enough to remember the last of the ‘flared ‘ 0 & P stock trains - now they had character.
@@hilaryc8648 D Stock were a bit of a disaster when they were launched as the bogies all started to crack and all had to be replaced but after the mod programme they became really good trains. I remember the original, very odd color scheme of orange and brown with 1970s coffee-table formica panels. It was a shame they got rid of all that when they were refurbished.
It's easy to get the S7s confused with the S Club 7s, though since the full circle of the Circle Line was broken, its trains no longer "Don't Stop Movin' "
I’m pretty sure that the class naming conventions are simply a continuation of the previous. Deep level stock was always know by the year it was introduced (apart from the Watford Joint Stock), with the sub-surface stock always being referred to by a letter, going back to the very early 1900s, with the District Railways’s A stock (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_A_Stock_(District_Railway))
Until replaced by the S Stock, the Metropolitan Line trains built by Cravens of Sheffield in the 1960s were also called A stock, District Line Trains were known as D Stock and Hammersmith and City Line and Circle Line trains were C Stock. Sorry I'm a nerd having fitted radios to all these train types.
@@1963TOMB The A stock stood for Amersham as they were introduced when the Met was electrified from Rickmansworth to Amersham and the section onward to Aylesbury became British Rail only.
an excellent video! In my ignorance I thought that all trains were the same. I don't know how this information will be useful to me in Argentina, but, is good to know anyway
Oh yes, Jago's quickly back in form. Very good. 06:34 Due to the conjecture over "S" meaning either "Sub-surface", or "Suburban". I think "S" for "Something" is probably more accurate. Having an electronics background a bit about the operating voltages would have been intersting. This is not a criticism, I enjoyed the video as always. Cheers, Jago.
I'm surer Jago and RM transit have done videos on that subject, apropos parts of Circle/District (Victoria to Mansion House?) have now been upgraded (revolted?...sorry) to 750DCV
The S stands for the lovely Supporters of the channel on Ko-fi and Patreon. Train motor inverters are fascinating. My favourite one was the doremi inverters of Tokyo's Keikyu Railway, because it sounded like it's singing the doremi. Sad that they had taken out the inverter on all the trains though.
early iterations of Siemens Taurus locomotives found in Austria, Germany etc also sing exactly that. From my knowledge some later ones used for railjets don't do that anymore :(
Can't forget the lights going off at various stages while in tunnels as well. I do wonder if it's a way to tell if your fellow passengers are regulars or not by their reaction
@@mgbrewhard Yes no battery backup. The same with all prior trains. I was once in a 1938 stock train where the lights went out on the 3 car unit and didnt come back on! The train continued in complete darkness. Not even the emergency lights at the car ends were on.
Your old...I'm so old I not only do I remember 1938 trains, but the 1920s trains on the tube, I was a child at the time and can't remember the year of them, but they had opening windows with wood surrounds and were a bright dark green inside. Then there's the trains that had skirts and the 1961 on the Metropolitan Line, that were the same age as me. The large bent windows on the trains that were based on the Victoria Line trains, remind me of being 10 years old and wearing black boots and a shocking pink check coat on a Victoria Line train. 😁
@@vespasian606 Yes, but the train manufacturing company was founded by Joseph-Armand Bombardier in 1935, who was Québécois and therefore pronounced his name the French way.
Love this video about the details of different London Underground Trains. Maybe a follow up video should be about the Ex-London Underground trains as a suggestion, Thanks Jago.
I had thought that all lines used a 'pool' of rolling stock (though I was aware that there were different models), so thank you for clarifying! I shall have to pay closer attention next time I'm in London.
That wouldn't really be possible. For example the Central Line has narrower tunnels than the other lines, so the power rail is in a different position.
Among other reasons, some of the stock physically wouldn't fit into the tunnels of the deep lines! If you're ever at Finchley Road station, take a look at the northwest end of the Jubilee Line platforms. Over the tracks, you'll see suspended loops of glass. These are "surface stock detectors": if Metropolitan Line stock is accidentally sent into these platforms, this taller stock will break the glass, breaking a circuit, which will put the signal to danger, so that the driver won't take the train into the tunnel. These loops used to be filled with mercury, though I think they're now metal-coated glass. They exist at various points on the network where surface stock is in danger of getting stuck if it takes the wrong road.
The S7s have maps in them for all three lines, presumably so that individual trains can be used on any line, depending on servicing schedules or whatever.
Actually two maps that cover 4 lines if you include the Circle. I used to live on the western end of H&C and no longer a circle Circle Line, it's very confusing for visitors to London if they happen to be sat facing the District Line map.
I very much enjoyed this episode, I wouldn't mind a look at historical stock as well! Especially the steam engines, it's a wonder they even ran with all of that smoke!
In the days when steam still ran through the tunnels on the underground (as far as I know they never historically ran on the deep level lines, I should add), locomotives were fitted with condensers, a type of apparatus that condenses most of the used steam back into water to cycle back into the tanks, in an effort to reduce exhaust in the tunnels. These came with their own problems but that's by the by. However, one still had the problem of smoke which, as Andrew has said, was handled by the regular ventilation shafts that still exist across the subsurface network. These certainly helped with the asphyxiating fumes, but steam on the Underground still proved to be an unpleasant experience, to say the least, until the tunnels were electrified. In short, until electric trains came along, it was absolute hell for passengers and crew alike, and not too dissimilar in experience from when "Steam on the Met" ran as part of the Underground's 150th.
@@SilverGear_ to be fair, the Met/District locos burned coke rather than unprocessed coal, which did help with the fumes - no sulphur. The biggest problem was that the condensing kit literally just took exhaust steam from the cylinders (complete with oil droplets) and dumped it in the water tanks. Over time, the water in the tanks would heat up and even boil, knackering the paintwork (unless double skinned tanks were employed), and the conventional steam injectors wouldn't work on hot water, so a different device had to be designed to feed water into the boiler. I'm not aware that there were any complaints re Steam on the Met. There were certainly far worse experiences of the wider national network for steam footplate crews - Combe Down tunnel, just south of Bath on the Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway to Bournemouth (which ironically was then in Hampshire), was one where so little ventilation was possible that crews could suffocate - one of the surviving S&D locos (7F 2-8-0 no. 53809) was involved in a fatal incident in which its driver and fireman were overcome by the fumes and it ran out of control down into Bath Green Park and hit the bufferstops rather hard.
Future Trains. Didn't they support Kraftwerk on their 1983 EuroTour? (No, they didn't. That was a joke. I just thought Future Trains sounded like A Good Name for A Band.)
I'm just old enough to remember the District Line stock in the 1940's that required passengers to close the doors manually when inside. Many people didn't bother, of course. Never has the journey from Victoria to South Kensington for the museums been so exciting.
My Dad used to go to school at Bow using the District Line. He used to make himself late in order to ride on the same hand worked door stock so he could be last on and leave them open! That would have been around 1949/50 and there were only a few left by then.....
Even better for some exhilarating atmospheric sound and ventilation,and a closer view of that array of side-of-tunnel cable wiring,with its rises and drops and occasional changes of colour,to follow.
I would absolutely have loved to have traveled on the L.31 Stock, and the M.35 with their green and cream coloured interiors which complimented the low wattage tungsten light bulbs.
Sydney had hand operated doors on it's Red Rattler trains up until 1993 and on it's interurban trains up until 1996. You could also hold the doors open on the other trains up until 2006 and they would still depart.
I just loved the 38 stock for its rumbling, eardrum shattering entrance into the platform. But i have to say that transverse seating is so much better in crowded trains. Otherwise you have people constantly falling on you or tripping over your bags.
Thank you for this awesome video (again)! The first time I visited London, back in 1976, it was the 1938 stock on the Bakerloo- and the Northernline that I liked the most: the sounds, the light bulbs, the partly wooden interior, the bauncing.... It just had an ambiance we can't experience in modern trains with their (too) bright lightning and clinical interior. Not that there is something wrong with modern trains, but the difference is huge. From the modern Underground trains I do like the S-Stock the most because of their very comfortable ride.
The nerd in me really wants to be lucky enough to catch it 😭 mind you, with the frequency with which I use the Metropolitan (and the Underground in general these days), that would require a lot of luck(!)
Really enjoyed this. Thank you! One small pronunciation thing: The train builder is Bom-bar-dee-ay. Pretend you're somehow French but still care about British rail trivia.
For those questioning the Bombardier pronunciation, I’m old enough to remember when Nestle was advertised on telly as ‘Nessel’s’ # ‘The creamiest milk, the whitest bar, Nessel’s Milky Bar!’
Though I understand that the Underground is a result of multiple mergers and acquisitions through many years, which includes different technical specifications among former lines/companies, it's always surprised me that there's apparently never been an agree-upon standard for platform/train floor height requiring a kludge (as seen on the platform at 2:40 timestamp) to accommodate wheelchairs, strollers/prams and more. I understand that when a new line or company is acquired, different specs come along for the ride but, as an occasional observer/user of the Tube, I'm perplexed as to why after 159 years of service, there's never been an agreed upon standard. I mentioned this to a lifelong Londoner (and Underground aficionado) a few years ago and his response was a very defensive "It's an old system! These things take time." accompanied with a look of derision and condescension in a how-dare-a-colonial-like-you-ask-such-a-ridiculous-question way. He was actually rather brusque the rest of the evening. I found it funny. C'est la vie. Anyway, do you see any momentum towards a universal standard of platform and car floor heights any time soon? Seems to me it would be a major gain in accessibility for more than just wheelchairs users. Curious in Calgary
It's unlikely there'll ever be a retroactive standard with all platforms bought up to the same height simply because of the cost involved. All public transport facilities in the UK are run on shoestring budgets, with most of the money that is touted as "investment" actually being the cost of ongoing maintenance; genuine enhancements usually have to go through rounds of bidding for funding in competition with other organisations (such as the main-line railways, the NHS or council social care departments) and rarely do more than a tiny proportion of the projects get funded. The little funding there is to improve accessibility at stations tends to have to go on big-ticket items such as installing lifts; there simply isn't the money available to raise the heights of entire platforms when an acceptable solution is to raise sections (at a much lower cost).
Any chance of a video explaining why certain underground lines are so loud? (Looking at you Northern line). Have always been curious about what makes those deafening screeches!
Apart from the weird experience of being able to see the length of the train (inside!), the one thing I have noticed is the doors. It seems to me that these used to fit into the train as they closed, but now they all seem to stay proud of the bodywork. Is that a 'thing' for a reason, or just a design fad? I appreciate it must be more complicated to have them end up flush with the bodywork when they close, but it looks so much nicer! I also 'remember' (ie I'm no longer sure exactly what I do remember!) the doors sliding inside the train when they opened. Did this actually happen or am I imagining this?? If it did happen, I've just realised, it might explain my memories of the doors not hanging on the outside of the train like they do now. This has turned into one of those posts you wished you'd never started...
Thanks for that insight into the differences of the various 'stocks' and line variations etc. I think my favourites come from what was in service when I was a kid in the '60's and we regularly travelled up to London from Uxbridge so had the choice of either the Piccadilly or the District lines, so the unpainted aluminium trains were about, before the 'trend' of plastering them in graffiti etc! I also used to look for the builders name on the tread plates in the doorways, Metro Camel always looked impressive, then trying to find a seat where you could watch the brake air pressure gauge or sit near the guards position and watch them operating the doors.
Having grown up in london from 53 to 72 this all looks rather modern. I remember the victoria line being new. The sound during acceloration was clunk clunk clunk as the motor windings changed, rather than the 'musical' whine. Thanks for these videos they great.
Ah, my geeky train nerd heart skipped a beat when this notification popped up. Cheers for indulging us hardcore train geeks for a moment, Jag. :) And all this is without getting into the departmental/engineering stock, most notably the battery locos. An intriguing set of beasts they are to say the least.
Very interesting and appealing, again! „It makes me feel kind of old“ when I realize the then newest stock, when I first came to Britain 1975 as a student, is now the oldest… ... and I have never been back to Britain since 1996. I probably won't be able to find my way around again and I'm glad that thanks to Jago I know again what underground trains in London look like.😙 Unlike discarded underground stock, I will probably never be exhibited in a museum.
An interesting look at the Underground fleet. My favourite's the 1972 stock. It has so much charm and the fact that they look set to continue in service for the foreseeable future is a testament to how well built they are. Regarding the S stock, they had to come through Birmingham when they were being delivered to LUL. I can remember seeing convoys of them at Saltley, with GBRF class 20s hauling them and tanker wagons acting as translator vehicles. Just a question regarding the 1973 stock, I've noticed that the centre windows have a grill pattern nearest the doors. Does anyone know what the grills are for?
@@andywarne963 they are half a century old. They have lasted far longer than most. Forty plus years ago, the bakerloo had 1938 stock, which was unreliable, nobody dreamt that the replacement would serve 50 years and still be more reliable.
Seeing you like inverter on the '96 stock, you might like the Bombardier Traxx inverters. And the there is the Siemens Eurosprinter, who went to music school...
S definitely stands for Sub-surface. I've never heard the word Suburban used on, or in relation to, the SUP (Sub-Surface Upgrade Programme, the name given to the programme to introduce the S-Stock before it became the 4LM (4 Lines Modernisation) programme). They replace the C-stock (on the Circle line) and D-stock (on the District line), so keep the same naming format as they don't just run on one line but on all Sub-surface lines.
Good snapshot Jago. Excellent mention of GEC, Metro Cammell Alstrom. Pity that Alstrom closed the Birmingham factory. The Bombardier sub surface trains are excellent too. If TfL want to save money and help the balance of payments ( remember that) they should cancel the order for Siemens rubbish with the door windows coming from Austria. Isn't it enough that Siemens have already supplied awful uncomfortable trains with only enough leg room for vertically challenged people with rumps of steel on Thameslink and the various incompetent south coast TOCs. Perhaps the contracts for new stock can be reallocated to Bombardier and Hitachi at their expanding UK plants. The Siemens Eurostar stock were also retrograde and inferior from a passanger point of view , compared to the Alstrom trains of the early decades.
When I moved to London the D stock was in the process of being introduced on to the District line. I remember people waiting for the doors to open, not being used to pressing the button.
I like 'technical' videos that explain things like the yellow diamond on the platform at 8:35. The only difference I notice is whether the doors are bent - to fit the deep tunnels :)
I too LOVE the arriving/departing sound Jubilee Line trains make. It's very nostalgic to me and takes me back to the good old times when I used to ride the Jubilee as a college kid. I hope that one day I get the chance to ride the Jubilee again before those trains are replaced with newer models and that sound is gone. To me it's as iconic as the old "MIND THE GAP"!
Within LU, "tube" stock is taken to mean only the stock that fits through the deep 12 ft diameter tubular tunnels. The larger stock on the Met, District and H&C, roughly the size of main line trains, is referred to as "sub-surface" stock. I know laymen nevertheless refer to the whole LU system as "The Tube".
Jago, there's something very odd going on with the framerates in this video. I don't know if you spotted it, but in certain shots, the trains look like they are in a slideshow, sort of jerking along. Were you filming them at a different framerate perhaps?
I get that when I forget to turn off camera stabilization. The camera locks on to a moving train or whatever, and tries to track it until it gives up and locks on to another part of the object. Stabilization is great for mostly stationary scenes, but not for trains. Problem is, with stabilization off, you should use a tripod.
Can't beat all the sounds you get on the good old D78 stock. I would have thought the S in S stock would have stood for Standard seeing as all the sub surface lines now use the same trains and I believe the Met still have a S7+1 in use. The original Standard stock from the 20s and 30s were far from standard as there were a number of variations
Interested in that first clip (0.00-0.15) with a platform on both sides of the train. Do the doors on both sides open at the same time? Which station is it and are there many/any more examples? Thanks.
Excellent informative video Jago, thank you very much. I never realised there were so many different units running on the Underground. I've been away from London for many years. Wished you'd shown a closer shot of that superb station clock @ 6.25. Its an early LT slave dial from around 1938.
4:34 and exactly the same sound as most of Paris metro stock (whether steel or tyre equipped wheels...): The Alstom electric motors and boggies trademark. And on a personal note, living in Putney and a regular user of the Eurostar (at least, back in the day...), I'm pleased to discover that I tended to ride the most recent and comfortable trains of the tube network, between the District and Victoria lines. Always my favourite ones, and now thanks to you, I have an objective reason why.👍🤗
I really appreciated this concise outline of the stock in use, delivered in the inimitable style of Jags Hazard. I have lost track of the stock since I left left London in 1979, the more so since I left the U.K. in 2000.
My friend who works at Bombardier points out that the French-Canadian company calls itself bomBARdi-eh but personally I think that either works fine :) 4:36 me too!
It's pronounced bom bar dee ay. A French-Canadian, Armand Bombardier started the company in the 1930s building snowmobiles and later built rail equipment, the division of which was recently sold to Alstom. They remain in business building aircraft. The trains used on the Yonge-University-Spadina line in Toronto are straight-through cars and they make a similar sound to the one you highlighted.
I really enjoyed this production. Many, many moons ago I made quite a few trips from Texas to Milton Keynes while working on a project for Royal Bank. On some weekends, I would take the train from MK (Stony Stratford) to London and then ride on as many different Underground routes as possible so as to see all of the stops. That kind of exploring was a fun and educational time.
It worried me too! And I think it’s polite to pronounce peoples / companies names and place names as they do themselves, and not in the slightest pretentious or pillocky!
In honour of Jago I shall be calling it bombardier now too, and just ignore anyone who wants to correct me. (Also Jago, that Jubilee line train noise you like is due to an older GTO thyristor setup. Some mainline trains in the UK have that sound too, like the class 323 up north and the 365 closer to home.)
@@rodjones117 ah, yes, the same nonsense that causes the UK to completely butcher Hyundai. Is respecting someone else’s name and identity (be they a person or a company) really that much of a stretch?
As someone who travels regularly on the District and the Piccadilly lines, I'm always perplexed as to how the trains of both lines share the same track...yet on the inside, the District line trains are seemingly about four times as wide ..like a Tardis effect!. Just weird.
Regarding the S7 and S8 stock naming, I was the Rolling Stock Asset Manager for Infraco SSL (the mock-privatised infraco for the sub-surface lines which predated the actual PPP companies). I can confirm the "S" in S-stock stands for Sub-Surface, since I was the one who renamed them from Bombardier's manufacturing classifications of Movia 236, 237 and 238, being respectively the 6-car, 7-car and 8-car variants. I cheekily used my new terminology in the Infraco SSL Rolling Stock Asset Management Plan in 2002, and Metronet and the rest of LU assumed this was an official decision. I knew LU traditionally used a letter for subsurface stock, and whilst historical fleets followed an alphabetical pattern (e.g. B to H, K to R, T) a more 'modern'' pattern was to somehow reflect the letter in the fleet's route, so A60/62 for Amersham, C69/77 for Circle, D78 for District. A fairly dim lightbulb moment suggested S for Subsurface, since I was not aware of a previous S stock - although I now know there was a very small (experimental?) S stock fleet in the 1930s. I also thought from an operational perspective it would be necessary to differentiate 6/7/8 car trains, so added the train length to S. This went against the grain of adding the order year (e.g. A60), but I thought the train length was more important than the order year. Of course subsequently (and with huge amounts of resignalling and civils works) we were able to dispense with the S6 train and create a combined S7 fleet that could be timetabled anywhere on the H&C, Circle and District.
Many thanks for clearing that up! It’s cool that you went with a traditional naming structure.
Wow, so cool to have some inside information.
Incredible comment.
You're not the only one who loves the sound of those traction motors powering up, Jago. I love that sound.
Those trains are also great at accelerating AND braking, as I found out the hard one way one day on the Jubillee Line some years ago when the driver performed an emergency stop half way between Canada Water and Canary Wharf (then [may still be] longest section between stations on the Tube), where the trains get up to near 70mph.
The force of the braking maneuvre threw me towards the end door and I effectively (and ironically) head-butted the breakglass emergency stop. Whilst my head hurt, amazingly the glass was not damaged. 🙂
On the subject of traction motors, I love the sound of the original Bay Area Rapid Transit stock's (A, B, and C) traction motors. The newer stock coming in (D and E) may sound similar but are nowhere near as satisfying. I still appreciate the new stock because it is far overdue.
Similar to the Class 323s up here. That sound is from the technology used to provide variable frequency AC for the induction motors. Its also very similar to that used in 80s FM Synthesis keyboards, e.g. Yamaha DX7 etc. So by extraction, if you like this sound, you're probably also a fan of A-Ha...
Yes the sound of the early 90's chopper circuits were much nicer than the squealing sound of later systems such as used on 1995 stock.
For the nerdy the reason why the later systems just whine is they use higher frequency pulse-width-modulation which was made possible by the development of IGBTs (Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistors).
I think that 1996 Stock sound might be due to the use of GTOs (Gate Turnoff Thyristors). These didn't have the speed of the modern IGBT, so have a more pronounced lower frequency sound. Technical information on this subject gratefully received.
This brings back a memory: 20+ years ago, when I lived in greater Boston, there were two kinds of train in service on the MBTA Red Line, which we non-detail-oriented types knew only as the "old" and "new" trains. The "new" ones were silver, with red fabric seats and a recorded message system to make the announcements. The "old" ones were white, with black vinyl seats, and the driver had to make the PA announcements in real time. I always liked it when I got one of the old ones, because MBTA personnel _hate_ having to speak to the public, and the gruff brevity of their announcements always tickled me for some reason. Where the recorded system said "Now entering: Porter Square. Change here for the Commuter Rail," the live driver would just pick up the mic and bark "Pawtah," if you were lucky enough that he did anything at all. :)
fun fact: the 2009 stock trains were originally going to be used on the piccadilly line as well, but in 2014 (2014 stock) hence some of the grapoles being painted dark blue representing the line.
Bakerloo trains are the only ones where the doors open a fraction of a second before the train stops moving. It always seems strange to me when this happens, as if it's some sort of misdemeanour against health and safety.
Bombardier (the train manufacturer) is pronounced as a French word "bomb-bar-de-ay", rather than the British army rank.
I love this. You certainly are the 'stock', before I deliver my next Inn 'tirade'. Keep up the great wordk!
I really like the Bakerloo line, their tube cars/carriages have a cosy feel
I reckon that it's just alphabetical. The old flared stock (1938,47,49,and 59) were O,P,Q and R stock - then there was a break for A for Amersham, C for Circle and D for District, and the S stack continues from the R stock.
The London trams are the same with them numerically following on from the original London trams withdrawn by 1952..........that's my theory at least
S is for Sub-Surface
That part about the open gangways is so true! It's not like you can just move somewhere else without being noticed. The problem is that those annoying people are mostly teenagers or drunk so they will most definitely talk back at you.
I note how the ‘S’ stock carriage (sorry, ‘CAR’) sides taper inwards at the bottom. Many years ago I recall reading that the bottom of the ‘R’ stock (District & & Circle) tapered OUTWARDS as a design feature to make people step back from the platform edge. Yes, I’m old enough to remember their distinctive smell.
Windows 95 took inspiration from those 1995 stock, also being released in 1998
From LeviNZ.. again..we know you said "sub surface" and not "sub service" :-)
K class in NZ were the North British-built 4-8-2 heavy duty locomotives imported about 1936. The NZ built models. in the Dunedin Hillside works were the Ka locos.. with a working life into the 1960s.
You did that so well, so obviously the next video, or two, should be a complete history of underground rolling stock. 😉 Says me enjoying your channel from Sydney. Sadly it's been more than 15 years since I've ridden the tube.
Another difference within the 92s is that the W&C Line 92 stock trains still have armrests, while the Central Line one don't.
I much prefer the interior of the 95s to the 96s, as the 95s have tip up seats rather than the perch ones of the 96s
As large an audience as possible? Yep, that's me. MUST go on a diet soon. Great video Jago. Thanks.
How do you manage to get yourself into the usual tube hustle without dieting?
I lost $3000 carelessly trading on a platform then I was referred to Mr Ronald Clark and he recovered my Lost and made an extra profit of 8000$ I was amazed by his strategies.
the crypto bots have overtaken this comment ._.
@@yanwato9050Thankfully now they're just a mere memory!
In the mid 80s I used to take a slightly circuitous route home to Tooting Bec for the chance of getting on a 1938 stock Bakerloo line train between Embankment and Elephant & Castle. You could imagine yourself in some 1940s movie, hanging from a leather strap in the dim glow of the filament light bulbs. Happy days.
My inner historian loves this! I feel seen...🚇
Used to love visiting London in the 80's and riding the Bkerloo, there is one sound I remember when power was shut off to coast into Baker Street and Picadilly Circus, a loud POP sound was it something to do with the Westinghouse or whatever brake they used? They didn't incluse that in the simulations on TS2-22 and the 1938 stock on TSW 2 Bakerloo route.
An excellent brief overview, just a couple of (probably not very) interesting facts.
The W&C and Central Line trains are not interchangeable, and upcoming modifications will make them even less so.
There was a plan at one point for an S6 train to replace C stock on the H&C and Circle Lines, until it was decided that it would be more sensible to use the same S7 as on the District Line.
From the shots of the W&C it appears these trains have not had the window frame modification done which are very visible on the Central trains. A mod to alleviate an issue with corrosion around the windows.
Are all platforms long enough, meanwhile?
Quite often trains change from one line to the other at a moment's notice, some Hammersmith and City Line trains I believe change to a Distinct Line train and continue on.
Also the 92s on the Waterloo and City Line retain the original armrests that all the 92s had when new but as they were easy to break when vandalised all the 92s on the Central Line had them removed.
@@Wildcard71 W&C platforms are only long enough for the 4 car trains, as are the sidings and maintenance roads, including the turn back siding at Waterloo (5 road with the train wash)
I'm an ex-London boy who has lived in Australia for many many years I love watching your videos which keeps me up to date with what is going on on the Underground. Although I live in Australia I try and visit London as often as I can (every four of five years when covid allows) and when I visit I visit as a tourist and enjoy travelling on the underground. I have to admit I dislike how 'transverse' seating is nowadays almost non-existent. The underground travels far more on the surface than it does underground and looking out the window is extremely difficult when sitting in longitude seating.
I'm the same :) well, lived in London for a year before moving to Australia.
That's why the S8 and 72 stock are my favourites... That and they're what I relied on for 3 years to get me from Wembley to Regent Street.
I looove transverse seating! It's so much easier to avoid awkward eye contact with other people, and you can visually keep track of the stops much easier. Not to mention there's no awkward shuffling when you have to get off and there is someone blocking your way
I built the High Voltage unit for the 2009 and later stock at Bombardier in Västerås Sweden. All propultion units where built in Sweden.
We refered to the two different units as VLU and SSL. I guess it stands for Victoria Line Undergound and Sub Surface Line.
VLU stands for Victoria Line Upgrade, the name of the project that upgraded the Victoria Line, including the supply of trains and the new Distance to Go Signaling System. You are correct with SSL: The London Underground was once notionally split into three: SSL, JNP (Jubilee, Northern and Piccadilly) and BCV (Bakerloo, Central and Victoria). Note that Central Line included Waterloo & City Line.
@@1963TOMB great thanks for the info. Going back to London soon to ride "my" trains again. Lot´s more to see now that I follow this channel.
@@1963TOMB SSL, JNP & BCV. If I remember correctly they were the three units created with the intention of them being privatised (in the same way that BR's operating sectors had been split into the Train Operating Units, which became the Train Operating Companies ready to be privatised). Thankfully that privatisation hasn't happened, as the thought of the DfT having unlimited control of LU in the way they've have of the "private" TOCs is beyond worrying.
@@atraindriverTfL Employee here
they were broken up into those 3 business units for the failed PPP initiative that was brought in
2 companies were in charge
Metronet had BCV & SSL
Tube Lines had JNP
Metronet didn't do much of what they were contractually obliged to do and eventually went bust with TfL (who were against PPP) having to take them over.
Tube Lines were much better than Metronet but eventually went bust and TfL again bought them making all TU operations in house.
Some of the legacy contracts are still in the name of the old companies and thus they technically still exist but soon this will end.
It's now all LU with the only differences being whether a line/station is deep tube or subsurface.
I can never remember which is which between the 1995 stock and the 1996 stock, all I do know is that my favourites are the Central line stock and the Jubilee and Victoria line stock, because they sound great and zoom off into the tunnels at about 100 mph off the end of the platform. I'm afraid the Metropolitan and District lines just aren't the same since they got rid of the A60 and D78 stock.
The ride on a fast Met service out to Amersham was something else when A stock were still around. Damn nearly bounced out of my seat on numerous occasions.
You absolutely sure it isn't 100km/h? There's quite a difference between mph and km/h...
@@mastertrams Either way, the '92, '96 and '09 stock have fast acceleration.
Hey at least the S stocks now accelerate same rate as Victoria Line. Though all the S lines feel the same now.
Same here. Central is my local line. Also, those 3 tube lines are the fastest and they just have more character to them
I, for one, am very much looking forward to the presentation on the oddities and engineering trains.
I am old enough to recall the guard operated door stock, but can't recall when this vanished.
Mid-90s, when the Northern Line stock was updated?
@@eddiewillers1 That late? Surprising.
The last stock with guards was withdrawn in 2000, IIRC.
Actually the last guard operated Underground train was withdrawn from passenger service back in January 2000, it was the 1959 Tube Stock on the Northern Line
@@PSYCHIC_PSYCHO Thank you for the specifics, I didn't think it would be as late as that.
Excepting that the basic ‘look’ hasn’t changed much I have to say that newer deep level tube stock, with their slightly fussy look and bits remind me, strangely, of some of the earliest pre 1930s carriages. On the subsurface lines I’ve not warmed to the S stock, too boring and too much like overground trains and far too quiet but then I’m old enough to remember the last of the ‘flared ‘ 0 & P stock trains - now they had character.
What I like is when the old rolling stock retires...to the Isle of Wight (line). Better than Bournemouth?
@@AndyG73 Now the ‘D’ stock. An elegant train, shame it’s not running in London anymore.
@@hilaryc8648 D Stock were a bit of a disaster when they were launched as the bogies all started to crack and all had to be replaced but after the mod programme they became really good trains. I remember the original, very odd color scheme of orange and brown with 1970s coffee-table formica panels. It was a shame they got rid of all that when they were refurbished.
@@andywarne963 totally agree about the colour scheme. The refurbished version lacked that strange panache.
It's easy to get the S7s confused with the S Club 7s, though since the full circle of the Circle Line was broken, its trains no longer "Don't Stop Movin' "
Ain't no party like an S stock party...
I’m pretty sure that the class naming conventions are simply a continuation of the previous. Deep level stock was always know by the year it was introduced (apart from the Watford Joint Stock), with the sub-surface stock always being referred to by a letter, going back to the very early 1900s, with the District Railways’s A stock (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_A_Stock_(District_Railway))
Until replaced by the S Stock, the Metropolitan Line trains built by Cravens of Sheffield in the 1960s were also called A stock, District Line Trains were known as D Stock and Hammersmith and City Line and Circle Line trains were C Stock. Sorry I'm a nerd having fitted radios to all these train types.
@@1963TOMB The A stock stood for Amersham as they were introduced when the Met was electrified from Rickmansworth to Amersham and the section onward to Aylesbury became British Rail only.
an excellent video! In my ignorance I thought that all trains were the same. I don't know how this information will be useful to me in Argentina, but, is good to know anyway
We all loves public transportation!!! I watched this videos all the time, and now I have the chance to ride it, feels like a dream 😭 come to London!!!
Oh yes, Jago's quickly back in form. Very good. 06:34 Due to the conjecture over "S" meaning either "Sub-surface", or "Suburban". I think "S" for "Something" is probably more accurate. Having an electronics background a bit about the operating voltages would have been intersting. This is not a criticism, I enjoyed the video as always. Cheers, Jago.
I'm surer Jago and RM transit have done videos on that subject, apropos parts of Circle/District (Victoria to Mansion House?) have now been upgraded (revolted?...sorry) to 750DCV
The S stands for the lovely Supporters of the channel on Ko-fi and Patreon.
Train motor inverters are fascinating. My favourite one was the doremi inverters of Tokyo's Keikyu Railway, because it sounded like it's singing the doremi. Sad that they had taken out the inverter on all the trains though.
Yosan line motors between Matsuyama and Nihama plus sing like that.
early iterations of Siemens Taurus locomotives found in Austria, Germany etc also sing exactly that. From my knowledge some later ones used for railjets don't do that anymore :(
You're quite right, the bouncy seating and bouncy ride do give the Bakerloo line a certain character
Can't forget the lights going off at various stages while in tunnels as well. I do wonder if it's a way to tell if your fellow passengers are regulars or not by their reaction
@@mgbrewhard Yes no battery backup. The same with all prior trains. I was once in a 1938 stock train where the lights went out on the 3 car unit and didnt come back on! The train continued in complete darkness. Not even the emergency lights at the car ends were on.
For bounce, there was nothing like the 1938 stock (Class 484) on the Isle of Wight. Ballast was generally beach shingle, which didn't help!
Your old...I'm so old I not only do I remember 1938 trains, but the 1920s trains on the tube, I was a child at the time and can't remember the year of them, but they had opening windows with wood surrounds and were a bright dark green inside. Then there's the trains that had skirts and the 1961 on the Metropolitan Line, that were the same age as me. The large bent windows on the trains that were based on the Victoria Line trains, remind me of being 10 years old and wearing black boots and a shocking pink check coat on a Victoria Line train. 😁
They were still used on the Isle of Wight until the late 80s, when they were replaced by 1938 stock!
One point (which I'm sure I won't be alone in making) - "Bombardier" is pronounced "Bom-bar-dee-ay". It's French.
French Canadian, but still valid 😋
All the better to pronounce it the British way.
@@oldfatbastad6053 bomb a deer 🤔🤔🤔😁
Borrowed from the french circa Henry the eighth. Nearly 500 years service in our dictionary. Take your pick.
@@vespasian606 Yes, but the train manufacturing company was founded by Joseph-Armand Bombardier in 1935, who was Québécois and therefore pronounced his name the French way.
Love this video about the details of different London Underground Trains. Maybe a follow up video should be about the Ex-London Underground trains as a suggestion, Thanks Jago.
I had thought that all lines used a 'pool' of rolling stock (though I was aware that there were different models), so thank you for clarifying! I shall have to pay closer attention next time I'm in London.
That wouldn't really be possible. For example the Central Line has narrower tunnels than the other lines, so the power rail is in a different position.
Among other reasons, some of the stock physically wouldn't fit into the tunnels of the deep lines! If you're ever at Finchley Road station, take a look at the northwest end of the Jubilee Line platforms. Over the tracks, you'll see suspended loops of glass. These are "surface stock detectors": if Metropolitan Line stock is accidentally sent into these platforms, this taller stock will break the glass, breaking a circuit, which will put the signal to danger, so that the driver won't take the train into the tunnel. These loops used to be filled with mercury, though I think they're now metal-coated glass. They exist at various points on the network where surface stock is in danger of getting stuck if it takes the wrong road.
@@SheeplessNW6 yup, seen them in the section where the district and picadilly share stations.
The S7s have maps in them for all three lines, presumably so that individual trains can be used on any line, depending on servicing schedules or whatever.
Yep. A few C&H trains start/stable at Ealing Common Depot and Upminster Depot, both District depots so makes everything lots more flexible.
Actually two maps that cover 4 lines if you include the Circle. I used to live on the western end of H&C and no longer a circle Circle Line, it's very confusing for visitors to London if they happen to be sat facing the District Line map.
@@annamae859 Tell me about it! I was worried we were on the wrong train.
You’ll also get the occasional S7 stock doing a metropolitan line route, which as mentioned uses S8 stock
@@hx0d But not vice versa presumably?
I very much enjoyed this episode, I wouldn't mind a look at historical stock as well! Especially the steam engines, it's a wonder they even ran with all of that smoke!
It was a big concern, and they built huge ventilation shafts in the early days. It’s also why electric trains were so popular
In the days when steam still ran through the tunnels on the underground (as far as I know they never historically ran on the deep level lines, I should add), locomotives were fitted with condensers, a type of apparatus that condenses most of the used steam back into water to cycle back into the tanks, in an effort to reduce exhaust in the tunnels. These came with their own problems but that's by the by.
However, one still had the problem of smoke which, as Andrew has said, was handled by the regular ventilation shafts that still exist across the subsurface network. These certainly helped with the asphyxiating fumes, but steam on the Underground still proved to be an unpleasant experience, to say the least, until the tunnels were electrified.
In short, until electric trains came along, it was absolute hell for passengers and crew alike, and not too dissimilar in experience from when "Steam on the Met" ran as part of the Underground's 150th.
@@SilverGear_ to be fair, the Met/District locos burned coke rather than unprocessed coal, which did help with the fumes - no sulphur. The biggest problem was that the condensing kit literally just took exhaust steam from the cylinders (complete with oil droplets) and dumped it in the water tanks. Over time, the water in the tanks would heat up and even boil, knackering the paintwork (unless double skinned tanks were employed), and the conventional steam injectors wouldn't work on hot water, so a different device had to be designed to feed water into the boiler. I'm not aware that there were any complaints re Steam on the Met. There were certainly far worse experiences of the wider national network for steam footplate crews - Combe Down tunnel, just south of Bath on the Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway to Bournemouth (which ironically was then in Hampshire), was one where so little ventilation was possible that crews could suffocate - one of the surviving S&D locos (7F 2-8-0 no. 53809) was involved in a fatal incident in which its driver and fireman were overcome by the fumes and it ran out of control down into Bath Green Park and hit the bufferstops rather hard.
Future Trains. Didn't they support Kraftwerk on their 1983 EuroTour? (No, they didn't. That was a joke. I just thought Future Trains sounded like A Good Name for A Band.)
They all look a bit trainy and tubey to me, but I'm only the fat controller on the London Underground. What would I know?
I'm just old enough to remember the District Line stock in the 1940's that required passengers to close the doors manually when inside. Many people didn't bother, of course. Never has the journey from Victoria to South Kensington for the museums been so exciting.
My Dad used to go to school at Bow using the District Line. He used to make himself late in order to ride on the same hand worked door stock so he could be last on and leave them open! That would have been around 1949/50 and there were only a few left by then.....
Even better for some exhilarating atmospheric sound and ventilation,and a closer view of that array of side-of-tunnel cable wiring,with its rises and drops and occasional changes of colour,to follow.
I would absolutely have loved to have traveled on the L.31 Stock, and the M.35 with their green and cream coloured interiors which complimented the low wattage tungsten light bulbs.
Sydney had hand operated doors on it's Red Rattler trains up until 1993 and on it's interurban trains up until 1996.
You could also hold the doors open on the other trains up until 2006 and they would still depart.
Bombadier, pronounced "Bum-Bar-Dee-Ay". They're French Canadian in origin.
@@oldfatbastad6053 no
haha "bum".
Bom-Bar-Dee-Ay
You ve really done a thorough stock taking there Jago! Pity the tube s so efficient nowadays, there's no bright flashes anymore ?! ⚡⚡⚡⚡😄
I just loved the 38 stock for its rumbling, eardrum shattering entrance into the platform. But i have to say that transverse seating is so much better in crowded trains. Otherwise you have people constantly falling on you or tripping over your bags.
I agree with you. It's a shame the new DLR & TW Metro stock will have longitudinal seats.
Thank you for this awesome video (again)! The first time I visited London, back in 1976, it was the 1938 stock on the Bakerloo- and the Northernline that I liked the most: the sounds, the light bulbs, the partly wooden interior, the bauncing.... It just had an ambiance we can't experience in modern trains with their (too) bright lightning and clinical interior. Not that there is something wrong with modern trains, but the difference is huge. From the modern Underground trains I do like the S-Stock the most because of their very comfortable ride.
There is one S7 set in use on the Metropolitan Line. It has an extra coach inserted in the middle to make up 8 coaches, but has longitudinal seating.
The nerd in me really wants to be lucky enough to catch it 😭 mind you, with the frequency with which I use the Metropolitan (and the Underground in general these days), that would require a lot of luck(!)
Really enjoyed this. Thank you! One small pronunciation thing: The train builder is Bom-bar-dee-ay. Pretend you're somehow French but still care about British rail trivia.
For those questioning the Bombardier pronunciation, I’m old enough to remember when Nestle was advertised on telly as ‘Nessel’s’
# ‘The creamiest milk, the whitest bar, Nessel’s Milky Bar!’
Though I understand that the Underground is a result of multiple mergers and acquisitions through many years, which includes different technical specifications among former lines/companies, it's always surprised me that there's apparently never been an agree-upon standard for platform/train floor height requiring a kludge (as seen on the platform at 2:40 timestamp) to accommodate wheelchairs, strollers/prams and more. I understand that when a new line or company is acquired, different specs come along for the ride but, as an occasional observer/user of the Tube, I'm perplexed as to why after 159 years of service, there's never been an agreed upon standard.
I mentioned this to a lifelong Londoner (and Underground aficionado) a few years ago and his response was a very defensive "It's an old system! These things take time." accompanied with a look of derision and condescension in a how-dare-a-colonial-like-you-ask-such-a-ridiculous-question way. He was actually rather brusque the rest of the evening. I found it funny. C'est la vie.
Anyway, do you see any momentum towards a universal standard of platform and car floor heights any time soon? Seems to me it would be a major gain in accessibility for more than just wheelchairs users.
Curious in Calgary
It's unlikely there'll ever be a retroactive standard with all platforms bought up to the same height simply because of the cost involved. All public transport facilities in the UK are run on shoestring budgets, with most of the money that is touted as "investment" actually being the cost of ongoing maintenance; genuine enhancements usually have to go through rounds of bidding for funding in competition with other organisations (such as the main-line railways, the NHS or council social care departments) and rarely do more than a tiny proportion of the projects get funded.
The little funding there is to improve accessibility at stations tends to have to go on big-ticket items such as installing lifts; there simply isn't the money available to raise the heights of entire platforms when an acceptable solution is to raise sections (at a much lower cost).
It’s pronounced “bomb-bard ee-‘ay”. Something to do with the franks of canaidia
Indeed. Bombardier Transportation is now defunct - it was taken over by Alstom in January 2021.
Jago's channel, Jago's pronunciation I rather think...
@@rodjones117 wow, you’re a bar-ell of laffs
Any chance of a video explaining why certain underground lines are so loud? (Looking at you Northern line). Have always been curious about what makes those deafening screeches!
Wait. The underground uses the American term "cars"?
DAMN YOU, YERKES!
It is a shame that the 1973 stock is being replaced soon, they are my favourite stock on the underground.
Apart from the weird experience of being able to see the length of the train (inside!), the one thing I have noticed is the doors. It seems to me that these used to fit into the train as they closed, but now they all seem to stay proud of the bodywork. Is that a 'thing' for a reason, or just a design fad?
I appreciate it must be more complicated to have them end up flush with the bodywork when they close, but it looks so much nicer! I also 'remember' (ie I'm no longer sure exactly what I do remember!) the doors sliding inside the train when they opened. Did this actually happen or am I imagining this?? If it did happen, I've just realised, it might explain my memories of the doors not hanging on the outside of the train like they do now.
This has turned into one of those posts you wished you'd never started...
If you enjoy riding on the Circle Line trains, you should join the S7 Club.
I'll get my coat...
I believe the Bombardier train builder is pronounced BOM-BAR-DEE-AY.
Thanks for that insight into the differences of the various 'stocks' and line variations etc. I think my favourites come from what was in service when I was a kid in the '60's and we regularly travelled up to London from Uxbridge so had the choice of either the Piccadilly or the District lines, so the unpainted aluminium trains were about, before the 'trend' of plastering them in graffiti etc! I also used to look for the builders name on the tread plates in the doorways, Metro Camel always looked impressive, then trying to find a seat where you could watch the brake air pressure gauge or sit near the guards position and watch them operating the doors.
Have the train lines changed? I thought it was Piccadilly and Metropolitan in Uxbridge
Likewise I used to like watching those brake pressure gauges on the 38 stock Northern line trains from Finchley Central to Tottenham Court Road 😃
I miss seeing Metro-Cammell in the door plates :( just in general, all over the UK
Having grown up in london from 53 to 72 this all looks rather modern. I remember the victoria line being new. The sound during acceloration was clunk clunk clunk as the motor windings changed, rather than the 'musical' whine. Thanks for these videos they great.
Ah, my geeky train nerd heart skipped a beat when this notification popped up. Cheers for indulging us hardcore train geeks for a moment, Jag. :)
And all this is without getting into the departmental/engineering stock, most notably the battery locos. An intriguing set of beasts they are to say the least.
Very interesting and appealing, again!
„It makes me feel kind of old“ when I realize the then newest stock, when I first came to Britain 1975 as a student, is now the oldest…
... and I have never been back to Britain since 1996. I probably won't be able to find my way around again and I'm glad that thanks to Jago I know again what underground trains in London look like.😙
Unlike discarded underground stock, I will probably never be exhibited in a museum.
An interesting look at the Underground fleet. My favourite's the 1972 stock. It has so much charm and the fact that they look set to continue in service for the foreseeable future is a testament to how well built they are. Regarding the S stock, they had to come through Birmingham when they were being delivered to LUL. I can remember seeing convoys of them at Saltley, with GBRF class 20s hauling them and tanker wagons acting as translator vehicles. Just a question regarding the 1973 stock, I've noticed that the centre windows have a grill pattern nearest the doors. Does anyone know what the grills are for?
LUL have a huge problem with the 72s though as the underframes are rusting away. They may well be forced to remove them from service very soon.
@@andywarne963 they are half a century old. They have lasted far longer than most.
Forty plus years ago, the bakerloo had 1938 stock, which was unreliable, nobody dreamt that the replacement would serve 50 years and still be more reliable.
How about a video on the different styles of ‘moquette’? Or would it make you want to ‘fumé la moquette’?
Did anybody else pause the video when the young lady in the white mini skirt walked down the platform?
Only me then - dirty old man !!
Seeing you like inverter on the '96 stock, you might like the Bombardier Traxx inverters.
And the there is the Siemens Eurosprinter, who went to music school...
I look forward to you new show. Never knew tubes and trains could be interesting till I found your youtube channel.
Welcome to the rabbit hole 😂
S definitely stands for Sub-surface. I've never heard the word Suburban used on, or in relation to, the SUP (Sub-Surface Upgrade Programme, the name given to the programme to introduce the S-Stock before it became the 4LM (4 Lines Modernisation) programme).
They replace the C-stock (on the Circle line) and D-stock (on the District line), so keep the same naming format as they don't just run on one line but on all Sub-surface lines.
1972 stock are my ✨FAVOURITE✨
Why do the different trains on the underground have different colours for their internal handles and railings?
Thank you for a good video! But please don't mix PAL and NTSC format (30/60 with 25/50fps). The movment of the trains gets choppy!
As a s stock driver it's sub-surface and Metline rocks 🤣😁
S stands simply for surface. Also, the Q stock was differentiated by year Q23, Q35 and Q38, the R stock R38, R47, R49 and R59.
*Sub-Surface
Good snapshot Jago. Excellent mention of GEC, Metro Cammell Alstrom. Pity that Alstrom closed the Birmingham factory. The Bombardier sub surface trains are excellent too. If TfL want to save money and help the balance of payments ( remember that) they should cancel the order for Siemens rubbish with the door windows coming from Austria. Isn't it enough that Siemens have already supplied awful uncomfortable trains with only enough leg room for vertically challenged people with rumps of steel on Thameslink and the various incompetent south coast TOCs. Perhaps the contracts for new stock can be reallocated to Bombardier and Hitachi at their expanding UK plants. The Siemens Eurostar stock were also retrograde and inferior from a passanger point of view , compared to the Alstrom trains of the early decades.
The Siemens trains will be built in Goole
I remember thinking the old Jubilee Trains looked futuristic....let alone the Central Line ones!
When I moved to London the D stock was in the process of being introduced on to the District line. I remember people waiting for the doors to open, not being used to pressing the button.
I didn't realize that the S7 trains didn't have transverse seats until now!
Talking about the sound, I really miss the startup sequence on the old closing credits. Any chance of bringing it back?
I like 'technical' videos that explain things like the yellow diamond on the platform at 8:35.
The only difference I notice is whether the doors are bent - to fit the deep tunnels :)
Spot on vid 👌🏼👌🏼
Great video but the extremely painful mispronunciation of Bombardier… it’s French. Not Bomb-bad-eer… Bom-bard-e-ai
I am a ruthless sadist.
They could make them much better, but they seem to be restricted but the size of the hole they have to fit in.
I too LOVE the arriving/departing sound Jubilee Line trains make. It's very nostalgic to me and takes me back to the good old times when I used to ride the Jubilee as a college kid. I hope that one day I get the chance to ride the Jubilee again before those trains are replaced with newer models and that sound is gone. To me it's as iconic as the old "MIND THE GAP"!
5:14 Bom-bar-dee-ay. :)
Within LU, "tube" stock is taken to mean only the stock that fits through the deep 12 ft diameter tubular tunnels. The larger stock on the Met, District and H&C, roughly the size of main line trains, is referred to as "sub-surface" stock. I know laymen nevertheless refer to the whole LU system as "The Tube".
TfL employee here
The S stands for Subsurface
Jago, there's something very odd going on with the framerates in this video. I don't know if you spotted it, but in certain shots, the trains look like they are in a slideshow, sort of jerking along. Were you filming them at a different framerate perhaps?
I get that when I forget to turn off camera stabilization. The camera locks on to a moving train or whatever, and tries to track it until it gives up and locks on to another part of the object. Stabilization is great for mostly stationary scenes, but not for trains. Problem is, with stabilization off, you should use a tripod.
The "S" in S stock; stands for "Sub-surface".
it's Bomb-BAR-dee-eh (French)
Can't beat all the sounds you get on the good old D78 stock. I would have thought the S in S stock would have stood for Standard seeing as all the sub surface lines now use the same trains and I believe the Met still have a S7+1 in use. The original Standard stock from the 20s and 30s were far from standard as there were a number of variations
Excellent technical overview in a non technical way. 👏👏👍😀
Interested in that first clip (0.00-0.15) with a platform on both sides of the train. Do the doors on both sides open at the same time? Which station is it and are there many/any more examples? Thanks.
Excellent informative video Jago, thank you very much.
I never realised there were so many different units running on the Underground. I've been away from London for many years.
Wished you'd shown a closer shot of that superb station clock @ 6.25.
Its an early LT slave dial from around 1938.
I remember P, Q and T stock, so, presumably, S does not stand for anything?
Sub-Surface
4:34 and exactly the same sound as most of Paris metro stock (whether steel or tyre equipped wheels...): The Alstom electric motors and boggies trademark.
And on a personal note, living in Putney and a regular user of the Eurostar (at least, back in the day...), I'm pleased to discover that I tended to ride the most recent and comfortable trains of the tube network, between the District and Victoria lines. Always my favourite ones, and now thanks to you, I have an objective reason why.👍🤗
I really appreciated this concise outline of the stock in use, delivered in the inimitable style of Jags Hazard. I have lost track of the stock since I left left London in 1979, the more so since I left the U.K. in 2000.
My friend who works at Bombardier points out that the French-Canadian company calls itself bomBARdi-eh but personally I think that either works fine :)
4:36 me too!
Bombardier... as in ta-ra-ra boom-de-ay!
It's pronounced bom bar dee ay. A French-Canadian, Armand Bombardier started the company in the 1930s building snowmobiles and later built rail equipment, the division of which was recently sold to Alstom. They remain in business building aircraft. The trains used on the Yonge-University-Spadina line in Toronto are straight-through cars and they make a similar sound to the one you highlighted.
I think the aircraft business has been re-branded as De Havilland Canada.
@@caw25sha You may be right- A friend works for De Havilland- I'll have to ask him.
Underground legend train services.
I really enjoyed this production. Many, many moons ago I made quite a few trips from Texas to Milton Keynes while working on a project for Royal Bank. On some weekends, I would take the train from MK (Stony Stratford) to London and then ride on as many different Underground routes as possible so as to see all of the stops. That kind of exploring was a fun and educational time.
The 72 stock is planned to outlive the 73. It’s lasting forever. Very reliable. Does it’s job perfectly. Let’s do this.
3:25
“the northern line uses 1995 stock, which came into service in..”
“Wait, I know this”
“1998”
“Never mind”
For the record, it's "Bomb-bar-dee-aye", the company's founder was French Canadian.
But if you pronounce it the commonly accepted British way you sound like less of a pretentious pillock...
It worried me too! And I think it’s polite to pronounce peoples / companies names and place names as they do themselves, and not in the slightest pretentious or pillocky!
In honour of Jago I shall be calling it bombardier now too, and just ignore anyone who wants to correct me. (Also Jago, that Jubilee line train noise you like is due to an older GTO thyristor setup. Some mainline trains in the UK have that sound too, like the class 323 up north and the 365 closer to home.)
@@rodjones117 ah, yes, the same nonsense that causes the UK to completely butcher Hyundai.
Is respecting someone else’s name and identity (be they a person or a company) really that much of a stretch?
@@metropod So do you pronounce the capital of France as "Par-ee"? No, didn't think so.
Best sounding metro cars are the M100 series from Helsinki. Can't beat that!
MR-73 in Montreal
Interesting - When are you & Geoff Marshall going to get together to do a vid together???🤔🙂🚂🚂🚂
that would require Jago revealing himself 😆
@@blue9multimediagroup True but he may still 'hide' behind the camera!!! 😉🚂🚂🚂
As someone who travels regularly on the District and the Piccadilly lines, I'm always perplexed as to how the trains of both lines share the same track...yet on the inside, the District line trains are seemingly about four times as wide ..like a Tardis effect!. Just weird.