literally have to remind myself this everytime someone has a disproportionate reaction to something I say online... like, it could literally be a child
I agree, booktok is quite a vast and varied subject, the weird stuff just gets focused on more. Also, bizarre erotica has always existed, it's not a new thing
IKR im so tired of people acting like the 10% of ppl on booktok that like crazy erotica represents everyone. One. There's nothing wrong with liking that genre, especially if its harmless. Two. A lot of this is aimed at the women who enjoy these things. If it were men, people might be grossed out but push it off. The same way people wouldn't mind as much if Only Fans models were men. Three. I'm very tired of people calling any romance with sex scenes "trashy romance." It makes no sense and is once again mostly aimed in a negative way toward women. A book is not trash just because you don't like it. And this is coming from somebody who mostly avoids "sexy" books. I find that I don't like the ones I've read so I stick to YA more. But...that's just me. I'm so sick and tired of people having different tastes and people being weird and SO judgmental about it. I'm not gonna demonize people who likes books like that because it's an OPINION. All of it is. It's another thing entirely if those people sexualise sporty randos irl or beg for smut in YA books. Otherwise, people really need to STFU and MIND THEIR BUSINESS.
The problem is the industry response to it. Booktok hyper boosting authors like coho and Romantasy makes publishers become a bit myopic rather than focusing on a wider reach. Tor is picking books like gothikana but the African author of an African mythology fantasy will be rejected. If booktok's power wasn't so skewed, then there would be less upset methinks
the main problem is that it is the more "popular" side of it, which makes 14 year-olds read smut. And i can know, i was one of them. In fact, videos bitching about booktok are the reason i realised its fucked up that not only me, but also friends of mine are reading icebreaker. I had a 13 year old friend who was reading haunting adeline.. i luckily found the other side of booktok, but my non reader friends would never. one of them read icebreaker for an assignment for school btw, just to showcase how bad it is. she'd never read a book otherwise. also, because the market is picking up on it and somehow marketing this as YA (12-18 y/o) doesn't help. (also i have yet to watch the video and have no idea what will be mentioned in it, but just wanted to say this. sorry if it doesn't make sense, english is my second language😅)
I do not like booktok but the criticism that it's only lowbrow media is really annoying bc people can like multiple things. Just bc someone likes smut books doesn't mean they only like smut books. Like I loved 100 Years of Solitude but I also unironically love the Resident Evil movies. People are multifaceted.
I read 100 years of Solitude waaay too young. The only things that came through is that it seemed like nobody could have a healthy normal relationship and I kept waiting for there to be another show to drop about the massacre that everyone kept saying did not happen although the fact that people keep bringing it up means there is some communal memory that it did in fact happen. That and the incest baby with a tail
As a librarian, I can say that Booktok has reinvigorated our spaces. Libraries are seeing a huge uptick in popularity and engagement with people who previously might have ignored us. And once they're there, we can get them into other books. This is true of graphic novels too, which are also vilified by parents and society at large. But criticizing people for liking what they like ignores what librarians as professionals have espoused for years, which is--a love of reading begets a bigger love of reading.
I love a good graphic novel!! And you're right, sometimes you just need to get people through the door. I literally started my reading journey with manga and now I have a masters from Oxford??
We put so much more pressure on reading. What are you reading, how much are you reading, why are you reading. But, we don’t put this same pressure on other forms of media. No one really cares what movies or shows you’re watching.
I feel like there is a pressure to watch popular television shows though. I really only care about film and people are confused when I say I don't watch television
Ooh, as a native Angeleno who grew up Hollywood adjacent I promise you movie/tv show snobs are a different kind of elitists. I’m not much of a movie buff outside of the horror genre-if I do watch something non-horror it’s probably a blockbuster-the looks that I get from ppl when they find out that I haven’t seen *insert critically acclaimed movie here* are scary. When they find out that I enjoy the Fast & Furious franchise AND the transformer franchise & I’ve only seen one Star Wars movie they act like I’m a war criminal 😂😂 if they ever hear me say I don’t get the hype over Citizen Kane they might actually send me to a prison camp.
People do put pressure based on movies you watch and music you listen to. I think it's not an entirely bad thing as long as the criticism is constructive and it makes a space for discussions. But it's pointless when it's done from an elitist perspective (the art I like is better therefore I am better)
I read all kinds of things including booktok romances. During my depressove episodes a really predictable, light-hearted book is sometimes the only thing that can make me cheer up and feel a bit better, why the hell would i care that some poeple think that means i'm dumb? When i turn to Kafka and Goethe right after, I'm not suddenly more mature, cooler or more intelligent...its really just a book at the end of the day, what genre someone reads doesn't define their personality and we'd all be happier if we let people read what brings them joy.
yes to all of this. I think the saddest thing about the smut moral panic is that it's basically telling people they should be intellectually rigid, one way or another: if you read "real" literature you're required to hate the booktok crowd, if you read booktok romances, you shouldn't even dare to try something more challenging because we'll know that you're just pretending to "get it". There's no curiosity here...
“Booktok Bad is distracting from things that are actually ruining literature but those things are less fun than insulting women on the internet” is perhaps one of the best closing argument lines I have ever heard
I'm currently writing a lot about how at its very beginnings, the novel was considered a feminine (thus inferior) literary form, while poetry was the intellectually stimulating and therefore masculine form.
There is a world of difference between erotic poetry and YA smut. Compare the biblical Song of Songs with Colleen Hoover's It Ends With Us for example; one has psychological depth, the other is glorified female pornography.
@@scrupulousscruples 90 percent of historical erotic poetry, even highbrow erotic poetry, is misogynistic. At least the pornography knows it's being objectifying. Also I may despise Colleen Hoover as a writer, but her books are not YA. They are adult.
@@nomisunrider6472 I wish you would tell Colleen Hoover's publishers that her books are in fact 'adult'. How can you possible know 90 percent of historical erotic poetry is misogynistic? This is a completely weightless statement.
@@scrupulousscruples Simple. I’ve read enough of it to know that most percent of what I’ve read, no matter the culture or time period, relies on misogynistic stereotypes that either reduce women to sex objects, makes presumptions about the entire female gender, or openly mocks them for having desires of their own. For example, the biblical Song of Songs you mentioned is used as a lesson to women against having premarital sex, but has no male counterpart. The Perfumed Garden demands that to be attractive, women should rarely speak and always comply, The Rodiad is simple porn, Lysistrata is about how ridiculous women having power is because they’re too oversexed to do anything, and Venus and Adonis portrays the goddess of love as a naive oversexed child who must be taught what “real” love is by a man. This assumption that erotic content by men is art while erotic content by women is just porn is an unfortunate bias. Yes, Colleen Hoover’s stories are hardly great art, in fact I despise them. But acting as though all erotic romances are just cheap wank material and all erotic poetry is full of meaning is a disservice.
the problem with booktok is mostly the publishers. they know the marketing potential is huge and the decreasing quality of books, no matter the genre is actually on them. i read romance and spicy books and i enjoy them and i'd be a hypocrite if i'll say that they're the worst because i read some good ones over the years. however, when the publishers see what people there read and the fact that they're asking for smut nonstop (even in YA books which is... concerning), that's what we're going to get, even when the author sucks at writing smut scenes (because my god, some do). recently i tried to read some sports romances that had atrocious writing because when the publishers see that people eat up this Wattpad-style written books (but the worst kind of Wattpad books because i read some good books there), of course that's what we're going to get. some people on booktok refuse to diversify their tastes and evolve and until then publishers will continue to give us clearly unedited, bad books which is sad (not saying these people are stupid or something because they're not. the publishers capitalise on their joy for sure). i mean, let's be honest, the publishers will never listen to that 1% of us who criticises the writing quality or complain about this. and yeah, maybe some books aren't for me, but it's still frustrating, especially when i find the blurb interesting or i like the tropes of that book. also, i think you should watch Mina Le's latest video about negative reviews in which she talks about people's fear of being more critical about the media they consume and media literacy. she has some valid points too
thanks for the recommendation - someone also dmed me that video while I was editing this one! Agreed that publishers and commissioning editors have a responsibility to uphold a certain standard for what is being published, especially now that practically everyone can publish whatever they want and make it into a bestseller. Sure, publishing is a business, but it's not just like any other for-profit enterprise. Once we start making that argument then all those literary prizes and the associated gatekeepers might as well be worth nothing.
Reading is a hobby. We aren’t reading for test or writing papers. People don’t have to critically engage with a hobby. There’s no need to diversify hobby. We don’t treat any other hobby like reading.
My fiancé's mother loves books. She is reading almost 24/7, she used to be a book seller and has also worked for publishers. When we were once casually talking about TikTok and I brought up booktok and the common criticisms, she just kind of shrugged and said that, in the end, she approves of everything that motivates people to read.
13:50 I'll be honest, I was working and when you said "they are kind of pathetic and deserve to be criticised" I did a double take, said "oooooooh" like that cat meme and had to replay it. What a burn!
The irony is that a lot of "intellectual" literature -- like the big postmodern classics, for instance -- feature explicit sex scenes or overtly sexual themes or tones. Yes, the smut is surrounded by hundreds of pages of dense, challenging writing, but it's still just smut. Which goes to show that no matter where anyone stands on the literature spectrum, from CoHo to genre fiction to literary fiction and beyond, we all enjoy a bit of sexy trash every now and again, and that in fact, smut isn't what makes books bad. What makes books bad is simply bad writing, and that's been around since the dawn of writing.
I think there is a lot of valid discussion to be had about BookTok's impact. I always find it funny though when people assume that everyone should be reading to become better people and engage meaningfully with "literature". As you touched on, some people are reading because they know what to expect in the book. They are reading for reasons of mental health, escapism or pure entertainment.
I do have a huge grudge with the clock algorithm. People put a lot of the blame on the users’ FYP, and say “well you weren’t searching hard enough- it’s your fault you are getting these videos”. But I have blocked so many key words, searched titles I adore and interact with them and ignore/ “not interest” on the reg topics I don’t want more of. But when I start scrolling eventually I circle back to unwanted topics and I then I have to begin all over again. I am getting a little tired of people blaming other people when they complain about their FYP 😅 There are studies now that examine how toxic the algorithm on TikTok is, and there is beginning to be a lot of evidence pointing towards that. It isn’t always people’s fault they get cruddy videos on your fyp. Honestly it put me off the app altogether
I see a lot of people saying the same thing and I agree that the algorithm is a lot more insidious than we would like to believe. I know someone who worked at TikTok specifically on the algorithm and they were saying that it's got to a point that even the people working on it don't fully understand it and how it makes decisions anymore. That being said, I have TikTok and I always have to specifically look for the "spice" keyword to see what drama is going on. Admittedly, I can go several days without even opening the app and I search all sorts of things, so maybe it has to recalibrate all the time...
Booktok actually made it so that younger people are interested again in reading. I can only applaud that, because in my country, literacy among the youth is declining rapidly. Unfortunately the idea to increase VAT on books is on the table again, which seems to be more concerning than an app where people are talking about books.
I’d say I disagree with this whole “BookTok is performative” aspect. Jack Edward’s made a good point about it on a video of his, but basically I believe that people are allowed to talk about their hobbies without constantly participating in it. For example, football fans attend and watch football matches but when they don’t, they have football fan account, wear football merch or pose with a ball. That is not a performance, as it is their true interest shared in another way
While I don’t disagree w you I also have to point out that social media in general is “performative” in the sense that posing for a photo or staging a scene for a photo are in part a performance of some sort. There aren’t many candid moments posted on social media anymore. Unless it’s one of those accounts where ppl take pics of strangers reading in public, most pictures of ppl “reading” are actually just them performing for the shot. I always see pictures of ppl w an open book sitting in really uncomfortable positions bc it looks good on camera. However, that’s not necessarily a bad thing & it doesn’t mean that they don’t actually read when the cameras are off.
I have read and do read a variety of books. I have never read CoHo as a matter of purpose. I have been a reader for about 40 years and was a literature major and a Russian lit minor in college. So when i was reading Divergent and someone told me “why dont you read adult books like crime and punishment?” I answered “i have already read that, and i read it in russian. Try again.” I read a lot of ya when my daughter was a teenager bc i wanted to know what she was reading, what was filling her head. But i will say that tiktok has greatly contributed to what i call the swiftication of america. Everything seems to be geared towards the swift audience, not just music- clothing, books, home decor. And i think the cartoon covers on romance novels is a part of that.
what an interesting observation! in literary criticism in the 80s and 90s people used to talk about the "mcdonaldization" of culture, a similar process to what you're referring to as "swiftication"
When I was younger I was definitely attracted to the bad boy archetype a lot and my crushes included Wade from Hart of Dixie, Damon from the vampire diaries and Ward from agents of shield (I thought I could change him). As I’ve gotten older and I’ve been reading romance books (not just romance but other stuff as well) watching more shows and movies and analyzing my own feelings and trying to understand the world I found myself becoming less attracted to that bad boy archetype and more attached to men like Chidi from the good place, Daniel Sousa from agents of shield, Ace from Nancy Drew, and Colt from the fall guy. I am still attracted to a fun bad boy archetype but I am no longer so young that I don’t notice the misogyny, inappropriate sexual comments, or abuse. And I will say romance books did help with that because when your young you can’t distinguish between reality and fiction that much so you assume what you like in fiction must be what you want in your real life but when you get older and you understand that exploring kinks is about having consent and rules in place and making sure you and others are safe. You understand more the difference between a fantasy being explored in a safe space and abuse. So while I don’t find the things in these books harmful to me because I view them as exploring fantasy in a safe way. The key to making sure your kids are safe if they are consuming this kind of content which let’s be honest they probably are is to make sure they understand the difference between a fantasy and reality and safety and consent are extremely important.
I don't read smut. I don't get the people who are complaining about it. Why do people care about people reading smut like who cares. Let people enjoy what they enjoy.
I can understand why people who don't like smut (myself included) might get annoyed at just how many books are now including it and how you have to be more careful to avoid it when buying new releases but at the same time there are so many books with no smut out there that there are more than enough options for a lifetime of smutless reading. It's also possible that publishers are pressuring authors into adding smut to their stories for marketability but that also happens with any other book trend (like the ya dystopia boom). In short I just think it's people being annoyed with a trend even though there are many other options available.
Yep, these last few years there's been a looooot of puritanism in online spaces. For some reason people prefer to bash smut/smut readers (mostly young women tbh) instead of promoting their favorite stuff. And I'm no big smut reader myself, I'm just tired of seeing this stuff happening over and over again
I'm agree with everything that you said in the video, but the fact fantasy is as popular as romantasy and smut. Unfortunately some fantasy readers and UA-camrs made valid videos and as a whole the genre is slowly disappearing and it is replaced with romance fantasy stories or short novels. Probably this is also due to the fact the attention spam of the average reader is short and people don't have the patience to read big epic fantasy novels. I won't argue that publishers probably are also not interested of this type of literature and unfortunately for the last 5 years I can't recall more than 2/3 books been published.
Non-smutty fantasy is dying and often I find myself looking through the YA and younger reader section in libraries and bookstores for non-smutty fantasy books. I don't dislike smut, don't get me wrong, I just like it in measured amounts and in fantasy it seems to be on every page (looking at you ACOTAR and the Empyrean series). This then takes away from the plot and characters I feel, in most cases, rather than adding to the plot by increasing tension or developing a relationship between characters. It just seems to be thrown in there for marketing value. I often find that older fantasy books published in the early to mid 2000s often are better than modern ones, mainly because they don't contain smut which forces an emphasis on the characters and plot, in my opinion. I don't dislike romantasy or smutty books, I just wish we had more fantasy novels being written and published that don't contain excessive smut. Some of the best fantasy authors that I've read are Taran Matharu, Brandon Sanderson, Leigh Bardugo, Philip Reeve and Philip Pullman. But this is all my opinion and no hate to you if you do enjoy romantasy or dislike long fantasy novels, it's not everyone's cup of tea and I appreciate that.
There has definitely been more fantasy/high fantasy being published and self-published over the last few years. Im not super in the scene but I've seen titles like Priory of the Orange Tree and Gods of the Wrydwood. I think because of the last few years romantasy has become a genre that people talk about separately from fantasy now rather than lumping them all in together and romantasy is considerably more popular than fantasy alone so I think it would feel like fantasy is dying off a bit, but it isnt and it never will. Publishers know there is still great demand for epic fantasy. You only have to look at popular media to see that (lotr and got) the generally public really enjoy epic/high fantasy 😊
@loki_doki-my5hs same here, I really crave for big fantasy book such as Wheel of time, Robin Hobb and Malazan. Unfortunately even Brandon Sanderson is sliding into more YA , because most of the plot sounds so repetitive and the story is not complicated at all like he is try to explain all to younger audiences.
Shorter books are not, to my knowledge, published more often because of the short attention span. It's because a) paper is expensive and b) many publishers don't want to give an unknown author a chance of writing a long, epic story. Hell. they even don't want to give a chance to authors who aren't well established! It's a roulette for them! And publisher, whether we like it or not, are a business and they care about their sales. Or maybe you're looking in the wrong places? I highly recommend digging deeper into indie scene! There're many authors who publish epic/long books who aren't trad published.
the thing that i'll never understand is people don't bat an eye when bad movies or music exists and is enjoyed by people, but reading has this elite academia base of people that will never let it go when people read things not meant to be intelligent
please keep calling out those people who yells BOOKTOK BAD just because it's "cool to hate booktok" when in truth they don't actually give nuanced arguments about booktok and instead more focused on making fun of badly written smut novels.
Absolutely love your videos. It’s like talking with a friend who gets how important books and the community are to me. I don’t have book lover friends so thank you! ☺️
Thank you so much for this! Last year I wrote a post on my blog about how cringe and stupid it was to blame Booktok for the supposed “death of literature.” This sentiment screams elitism and ignorance. I didn’t even know there were people having moral panics alongside all the other crap! God that’s so cringe! Do better, yall. Come on. There’s literally thousands upon thousands of books out there. You guys don’t have to read Fourth Wing. There’s some real criticisms you can throw at booktok and its overconsumption and there’s some real criticisms you can throw at specific books, authors and even fanbase but to blame an online platform and romance readers for the downfall of an entire medium… that’s embarrassing. I’m so glad more and more videos are calling this way of thinking out. It’s very validating.
I think when people say it's going to lead to the "death of literature" its likely a hyperbole? Don't quote me but I think it might be an exaggeration to the effects or the future effects that Booktok might have on people and what they consume.
my attitude to booktok is similar to my attitude to religion, I will not take a part in it and my values lies elswhere, however I will "defend" your right to partake in it and enjoy it (as long as it doesn't harm others)
I used to read 60 books a year simply because I LIKED it. However, the more I got involved with the reading community, I found myself forcefully reading several books just to boost my ego in front of these people. And guess what? Last year, while trying to increase my goal and refine the books I read, I only finished 12 books. I'm struggling to free myself from social pressure and your channel helps me a lot! Thank you for that, the number of books I read is no longer a priority, I just read. :)
I don't really watch booktok because I like long form reviews/recommendations, but at one point, ALL of my youtube recommendations were "booktok bad" and I started ignoring creators who rely on mentioning "booktok" in their video titles to get views. The criticism is often extremely surface-level and doesn't actually address issues that tiktokers have with their own communities.
I used to get booktoks but I liberally didn't interact with them at all, I watch book content on UA-cam because I need long rants/vlogs/ranty reviews and the shorter content isn't my thing, and I haven't seen a single video since. People forget social media is customisable for some reason.
Actually, an author recently divulged that the blubs on the back are most often created from the reviewer receiving the synopis and small excerpt of the book by which to create a quote to be placed on the book. They aren't required to actually read the book to put a blurb on it.
I was listening to your video on the background, and because you don't do the whole 'see you in the next one' outro thing, the autoplay switched to Leoni's video and for a moment I thought this was a surprise collab. No idea why you need this bit of information, but I thought it was funny. I dislike Tiktok in general, but to be fair, I don't think this app creates any problems that weren't already here (ok, maybe decreasing attention span, but, like, Instagram already existed). This applies to the bookish part of it as well, and there doesn't seem to be more to it than that. P.S. shoutout to the bros who found the culprits of the downfall of publishing (them being women). I knew you lads won't disappoint.
Completely agree, I only read classics and award-winners over the popular books on the market and there's oodles of amazing literary fiction out there, but if all you're seeing is what's reinforced in the BookToy echo chamber you're limiting yourself to many great modern works.
Ive seen a lot of people compare smut enjoyers to corn addiction and I can't tell you how far that's reaching. Theyre watering down what its like to REALLY be a corn addict.
As a writer, the tropification is really frustrating. My story is good, but it doesn't fit a lot of the tropes so i won't get the same kind of attention and it also makes it harder than ever to be able to do anything but self-published.
100% - Alisha's video is very good and I've made similar points to hers in past videos. What I'm trying to highlight in this video is that we seem stuck in the outrage stages without any idea of what to do next
Lol I was having this very discussion with my friends. No "booktok bla bla" videos are adding anything to the discussion. We had these same discussions about book bloggers, booktube, booksta, book twitter. Let it rest
I will never understand hating so much an author and then reading ALL their books just to hate, like, babes I think you could use that time more wisely. It makes no sense to make fun of people reading a book while reading the same book AND making videos about it, the amount of work out of something they deemed "stupid" will always amaze me. 😂
You really hit the nail on the head here. I have many criticisms of booktok and bookstagram, mostly regarding the algorithm, the “trope-ification” (as you put it), the mis-labelling of some romance as YA, and how it’s hard to curate certain spaces, meaning you have young teens and adults interacting even when a certain space isn’t meant for one of those demographics. However, I also dislike the way a lot of the valid criticism gets overpowered with the same “women are killing literature and erotica is a new thing which is taking over reading.” There definitely are some cringe aspects, and also valid issues with how some books handle darker topics, but overall everything gets boiled down to shallow arguments which lack nuance and often are rooted in misogyny. Thanks for bringing some of the nuance back to the conversation
The same argument has been going around ever since the 1700s, if you look at the history of books, when books became democratized and the question of women reading became popular, with misogynistic men throwing around this idea that women only read "romanesque" books, literally nothing has changed. Except that we're in the 21st century, and people still use these misogynistic arguments
Great video! I think people should just let people read what they want to read and leave them alone. There is such varied content on all social media platforms and Booktok is no different. I liked your discussion of older books not always being great. For example all the pulp books of the 50s and 60s which included terrible SciFi and romance books. Although those SciFi books have some pretty awesome cover art. To me reading is no different than streaming bad shows for some people. They simply want to read mindlessly and escape life while being entertained.
I'm not on booktok (or any Tok lol) but your videos are so compelling and beautifully articulated, I keep clicking. Definitely have to subscribe now! P.S The square space ad was so well done I was thinking "do I need a website???"
I’m asexual and I so find it hard to read poplit nowadays without steam. Especially with Romance. I used to love romance when I feel like reading one, now I think I’ve gone on a year without them. The overpopularization of smut in literature is concerning, especially when these are the books the bookstores and the algorithm pushes to the general populace.
When you see smut recommendations it is because that's the contest you engage with. There are a lot of booktuber for example that don't read much smut and say themselves that they don't feel comfortable with reading a lot of it. Interact with those people and you will find something for yourself
I come at this from another angle. As someone who's had a toe in the pool of fanfiction for a couple of decades now, I don't understand why people would pay for printed smut when there's a whole internet full of it. If it's because they think it's easier to find the good stuff that way, I recommend searching by number of likes and comments and bookmarks. 🤪😉
@-autumnfeelings That's a misconception. You get content the algorithm thinks you will click on. If 10 million book readers clicked on a smut romantasy tiktok talking about the size of a dragon's cock the algorithm will assume you will want to see because you're a book reader. That's called "trending" and "popular" content - it gets pushed
I'm the same. I used to like reading romance but it's hard to find romance books that are thoughtfully and maturely written and that don't have sexual content. I guess that's just not what sells. It's gotten to the point where I skip those scenes in books and generally steer away from the romance genre.
YA and romantasy are the book equivalent of pop music or reality tv. i have a bachelors degree in english lit and sometimes i wanna read some ACOTAR or The Hunger Games. We contain multitudes. Also, fwiw, the first novel ever written was smut.
I started on the smutty side of booktok but I actually migrated to reading horror/thrillers! There is a lot of things wrong with booktok but it helped me get back into reading.
Why are people required to read "literature"? If I want to read Goosebumps for the rest of my life that's my prerogative. So much content online is trying to lash out at something deemed too popular by trying to make it seem stupid to like it. I don't think it will work on Romance like it did for Stanley cups though.
I think what people don't realize is if this is what you're seeing on your FYP, it is based on YOU. It is because the algorithm thinks this is what is likely to get you to keep engaging. You're telling on yourself a little bit, if saying: "Oh, everyone is just talking about sex in books on booktok." That's cause that's the only content you're engaging in. That says more about you than the people making the videos. Whether it's because that's what you're genuinely interested in or you're just rage watching that is showing up on your feed because that's what you want to see
Enjoyed Alisha's video and also really enjoyed this! Glad to have discovered two good new book commentary creators in the same month, keep it coming :)
While I like Alisha's video essay and do agree with some of her arguments, I couldn't help but feel how pretentious and gatekeepy her point of view was. Her comment section was especially filled with the most elists crap I've ever seen. I get where she's coming from, but some people just want to read fast food books and that's ok. I watch brain dead movies and tv shows to relax, but consume books and literature for when I want to expand my world view. Why does she criticize people reading to turn off their brain, but not the people who watch movies and tv shows to do the same? All these form of media do the same at the end of the day. I don't know why there are so many video essays criticising people reading "fast food" books and not doing the same for the people who have been doing the same with tv, movies, and art. There's something so hypocritical and misogynistic about this that bothers me but I'm too stupid express what it is.
Yes, thank you. Likewise, I watched Alisha’s video and although I found some of her points compelling, I had similar issues with her arguments. Mostly that everything isn’t black and white, and that the want/need to consume escapist media can coexist with one’s ability to approach other pieces of work critically. It also felt weird that her comment section was not very diverse, as you said. Anyway, it is great that there is nuanced discourse going on on this topic though; good thing that I stumbled upon this video.
Omg I've never thought about it like that...I watch the trashiest TV sometimes but always like my books "well written" and "literary" (whatever that really means), yet watching "bad" TV isn't vilified like reading "bad" books is. I mean lets be real, "bad" TV isn't going to win an academy award just as the book equivalent is unlikely to win the Booker Prize. Everything has its space and function.
I think her point (or what I got out of the video anyway) is exactly the idea that thoughtfully critiquing a written work shouldnt be automatically looked down on as "pretentious and gatekeepy". there are amazing video essayists on youtube thoughtfully critiquing junk food TV and bad movies and all other forms of "brain dead" media. (Willie muse does this best imo!) just because something is silly or escapist or just for fun doesn't mean we can't also look at it thoughtfully and interpret themes, motifs, where the piece was effective in what it meant to do and where it failed. i don't think it's misogynistic to say that it's good exercise for your brain to reflect on the content you consume and pick out what made you enjoy it or where it fell flat for you. sorry for the essay but just my two cents on her commentary!
@@sonny423 I'm fully aware of video essays criticising trash tv, I watch them myself and consume brain dead media as well. My issue with Alisha's essay, and most video essays on this booktok subject, is the absolute condescending attitude towards the people consuming "low brow" books. Humanity has written horrible books, smut, and low effort literature since we started writing. We're acting as if this is a new phenomenon. It's not. She mentioned the importance of books in our political system. That importance can be said for any other art media. And like any art media we have thought provoking pieces, duds, and ones that are made just to be consumed for fun. There are people who criticize these films and tv shows, yeah, but there aren't as much vitriol for the people who consume those film as for the people in booktok. And I'm not saying these type of books should not be criticized and analyzed, they very much should be, no matter how camp or ridiculous they are. Like I said, I do agree with many of her points. I'm just saying the criticizing should stop at the books. Whether she wanted to or not, she became incredibly condescending to the women who just want to read smut. And that's when she lost me. If a girl wants to read smut, or low effort books to have fun after a long day of work, she does not need to be worried about feeling stupid about it. I can say I enjoy b horror movies, call of duty, or reality tv without much judgement from other people, but I've met book lovers who are absolutely ashamed of saying they like romance books, a Colleen Hoover book, or smut. That's so stupid. And the more I watch those type of videos the more clear it becomes that it's because of misogyny. We clearly still have so much work to do to work through our internalized misogyny. There are so many popular male authors that are just as "mediocre" as Colleen hoover, or SJM, yet there isn't the same stigma surrounding them as with their female counterparts. I can go on. But the more I think on this, the more depressed I'm becoming and it's late.
I feel like the more people pile on with the 'hate' of Tiktok/booktok the more people will double down and exasabate (not correct spelling) the issue. My issues are the grammatical errors or things that a good editor should help the author to create a better narrative. My favourite thing about the Tiktok algorithm is it's an onion. The more you watch other more critical videos on books the more likely you are to see that content. For example my for you page is a nice mix of smut, sci-fi and the classics (Jane eyre, sense and sensibility, Dracula).
Thank you so much for weighing in on this topic. I applaud your thorough discussion of similar videos and what it all means. I'm grateful that I don't feel the need to download tiktok because I already had my exploration phase through fanfiction websites. My current concern is how best to approach someone from the younger generation (not just BookTok, but TikTok scrolling in general) that is still going through that phase for themselves (my cousins, for example, who are 5-6 years younger than me). The conclusion I reached for now is that everyone is on their own journey, but what I can offer is an alternative shared experience, like teaching them how to paint. They can decide for themselves which path they prefer in the end.
I'm going through this with my soon-to-be 14 yo brother whose activity of choice is to be on roblox with his friends. And similarly, I'm not his parent so I can't tell him what to do, but if I suggest something that we can do together he doesn't say no.
I love classics, and I don't call myself an intellectual because of that. BUT at the same time I don't like the blacklash as a mostly classic reader as myself are getting just because it seems that we are reading those books just to feel "superior" to other book readers Everyone can read what genre they truly enjoy without the need to make others feels bad because of that
When you mentioned the book Black Oxen, it triggered a memory and I went to check my bookshelf. I own a copy of that book in its original published date of 1923! I haven't read it, though 😁
I do wonder if the uptick in the consumption of spicy books by young/new-adults might have something to do with them not having as many/any actual physical sexual encounters or relationships. (This isn't a slight, I'm not passing judgement on the genre/trop itself here, just wondering if their is any causation at play, as opposed to mere correlation?) I can't remark on TikTok because I don't use it. I signed up for a account when the platform first landed, but I'm old and TikTok gives me whiplash with how fast-paced it is...I already have aching joints...I can't afford to add a sore neck into the mix too, lol.
In the video I refer to here, Princess Weekes makes a point about how people are looking for sex in books because it's kind of disappeared from film and tv over the past decade or so, for various reasons (mainly the way actors are mistreated in the making of those scenes)
@@accordingtoalina Do people still watch TV? How quaint, lol. I don't really watch any films either so I haven't noticed it not being there. But then I never really cared for it in books or on film either. I'm a Gen X-er and have always been far more interested in the taking part in the act, than watching or reading about it. And that seems to have been the case for most people I grew with. We wanted to grow up fast, have hook-ups, have relationships, move out (even if it was into some low-rent hovel and we had to work gross jobs to do it. Now there seems to be a strange change in the increased desire to grow up a quickly, emotional fragility has gotten more common and more debilitating, younger people are exposed to more, sooner, via the tech in their phones, but less mature when it comes to the age when we'd expect to see them striking out on their own. Everything feels topsy turvy and we still don't know or fully understand the impact has been on generations of kids who grew up with the internet always having been there, their whole lives. I'm just glad I don't have any kids myself because I'd hate to be a parent right now.
This razor-sharp video upends the simplest BookTok conversations, crackling with the illuminating wit also present in Alina's 200K plus video BookTok and overconsumption. Brilliant. Intimate. Stunning.
as someone who reads smutty romances and classics alike, i hate the elitist undertones of this movement. i also can’t help but feel it is very misogynistic… women have been made fun of for consuming ‘unintellectual’ media for years. there is nothing inherently wrong with someone reading a smutty romance book opposed to reading a classic novel. you’re also not more intelligent or a better person because of what you do or don’t read. nobody is ruining literature. i will read whatever the hell i want, and invite these ‘critics’ to do the same.
I noticed the shirt halfway through the video and as an Italian who has a very positive relationship with my beloved Dante Alighieri I think it's incredible. Also this video changed my perspective on BookTok, thanks!
I think the real problem with smut is that it is often poorly written and then propped up by bodice ripping. I read a clean paragraph of 50 shades and it seemed like someone's ESL homework. That said, I don't care what people read, I just get bored with seeing people raving about the same ten books everywhere I look. Perhaps it's some sort of trash fatigue.
Your bookish essays are so cathartic and I feel like they articulate what a majority of the community thinks. The nuance of it all, etc. I admit I cackled at the deadpan “use a search bar” 😂🙌🏼 The “OMG I’m obsessed” hyperbole sensationalism is so fatiguing. And so vague and seemingly disingenuous. If all you have to say about a book is one word, why bother? If you said that about 20 other books in the same fiscal year, how does it stand out? Can we put thought into our feelings on the stories we encounter anymore?
I want to know who is an intellectual online so I know what kind of taste a person has if I’m getting book recs and not waste my time on yet another Colleen Hoover recommendation. There can be a time and place for light fiction, but sometimes that’s not the mood. That being said, her books only come up when I *search* for those books. We just need better hot keys.
I feel like another reason why most people on TikTok lean towards books with the same tropes is because they know that since they like that specific trope, they’ll like the book, which makes them feel better about investing in purchasing it. Book prices are insanely high these days and not a a lot of people can afford to simply pick one up and say, “Hey, I’ve never explored with this genre before, let me buy it to see if I like it” because if they don’t end up liking it, it’ll just be a waste of money. That’s why most of the young users on booktok continue to buy books that they know they’ll enjoy, which will end up forming the bulk of their content, thus continuing the cycle.
I am one of those people who felt like the oversaturation of spice was a problem online but also I know that I'm just a hater and I can ignore people with bad taste if I want So taking a step back, I can see how many flaws there are in this tiktok outrage. A couple things come to mind as to reasons WHY this outrage might exist: I notice whenever people online see an old person, an older woman with a taste for smut or who read a lot of erotica as a child, they uplift her. We understand that our mothers and grandmothers in a lot of cases werent allowed to enjoy sex or even enjoy reading depending on where theyre from. But for young people it seems almost too predictable that they would be interested in or OBSESSED with sex. And so theres something there about not wanting to be stereotypical or predictable about our interests. Kind of like not wanting to be "mainstream" or when songs or movies get "overrated" to the point that something once critically acclaimed now becomes overdone. Another thing I feel is this perception that popular books are shallow and "anti-intellectual" might be misplaced fear about an overall sense of apathy on the internet to real life issues. Maybe you read a book about the struggles of black americans because you suddenly became aware of them and it scares you to see that nobody else is experiencing this education with you. The thing is our personal lives will never directly mirror the lives of people online. And their social awareness and political involvement may simply not be representee by their online persona but that doesnt mean it doesnt exist These are just theories of mine I cant exactly prove thay theyre true but I wonder if there is any truth to them at all.
absolutely loved Alisha's video and absolutely loved this one and I think the reason for that is that both of you are so genuinely passionate about literature and publishing, as opposed to so many creators making videos about booktok just because it's the current rage-bait topic
it is no surprise but still upsetting that measured and thoughtful opinions will always gain more traffic than someone's butthurt. same as emotional 10sec book recs will draw more attention then deep analysis and attempts on engaging when recommending a complex book, with no spoilers and/or mocking. thanks for the video.
this video came at the right time for me as I've talking to one of my friends about how we feel like the booktok vs serious books thing has reached culture war levels of hysteria, which only amplify the impression that no one is reading anymore/ people are only reading shitty books. And yes (!!!!) it's also becoming obvious at this point that people are making "booktok bad" content because it gets views lol
Booktok gave me so many good books wether it was romance or Not and I try to comment on intense criticism videos that it’s not so bad but everyone is so mad and mean and I’m not even saying anything untrue or wrong
I agree on this wholeheartedly, however my direct experience with the consequences of these popular books literally leaves we with nothing to read in my town. I live in Germany, and there is a nice bookstore in my town with an English books section. Couple months ago it was maybe 30-40% "booktok books", which was alright, because I still could get something else. But now it's literally 80% or so, and the other 20% is rarely changed. So yeah, while booktok is a vast community, the "spice" fanfic-like books are so prominent they now leave me with almost no choice here... I know it's a bit niche, sorry, but still. Just wanted to share.
I've never thought about the age differences of those fighting in the comments, but it makes sense. Comparing what I liked reading when I was 17 vs what I like now is eye-opening enough. Some of them I can barely get through today. So we should definitely let the 14yo online enjoy what they want to.
Booktube and Authortube are just as bad about tropification. I watched an author give writing advice that his multi award-winning book didn't follow a single piece of.
That's fair. I think most of the BookTok criticism is centered and focused around these questionable romance/smut books (as well as the trope-ification phenomenon). And then people assume that no one who's on the app "really cares" about "true Literature". There's a little bit of everything, though: some BookTokers enjoy romance, some enjoy more Greco-Roman and Western Classics, some enjoy fiction and fantasy... ultimately, you have a say on the content you engage with.
exactly! there's literally a man on there teaching people about the history of illuminated manuscripts and antique books and he has 300k+ followers soooooo
The problem for me is when booktok and the frenzy for “trashy” books drive the publishing industry to the point where nothing new is published for those of us who are not interested in smut or YA, and we can never find what we’re looking for in bookstores. I was all about “let people read what they want” until I walked to the Indigo (largest bookstore chain in Canada) in my city to find that they only had four copies of books of the author I was looking for (of course they didn’t have the book I was looking for) but an ENTIRE shelf for Sarah J Maas books, and tables packed with these books with generic cartoon covers that we all now know are smut
some people forget sturgeon's law exists for a very good reason, most things of a single category will not be to your taste or even good, and it's been like that since forever
Great framing! I absolutely agree with you. As somebody who was raised in Rio de Janeiro, then later in life moved to Europe, I feel this new societal push to define myself through a main hobby, a main skill or something about my work. Now when I look at things like 'talent shows' that didn't exist in my original cultural context, I always think they are one of the many many many pieces that create such a cultural and relational environment. Even the way people ask questions here push towards that direction - and I might not have noticed it at all, if I hadn't experience a different context. You're right, it's wild. I always had a feeling that this tropification of genre lit has to do with the way algorithms distribute information. As in: if you talk in terms of keywords, tiktok will reward you with the content you like because you make its job easier. What do you think? This is something that started with people or are we being nudged by software?
Loved this video, especially the last line! 'Booktok haters ' are no better than the community they are trying to shame and care too much about appearing intellectually superior by distancing themselves from them. Everyone cares too much how they look to others and are losing sight of the literature in the process. P.S Alina, do you have twitter, would love to follow you on there :)
yessss there's a lot of virtue signalling here, too! I don't really HAVE twitter - I have a twitter account just so I can check out topics that interest me on there (also the main reason I keep a tiktok account) but I never post anything
Even though I have a lot of issues with booktok, some valid criticisms and some that are more personal, I also think it is a bit dramatic to say that it is ruining literature. But I also think hate on booktok (not criticism but hate) does redirect the anger. Granted nothing that we do exists in a vacuum and yes our reading taste and popular books do have some affect on publishing, but at the end of the day the changes we see in publishing is happening at the decisions of the publishers and other big corporations in the literary world. I am really glad to see you include some of the actual issues at the end.
I can ignore smutty books, but I CANNOT ignore the influence this filth has on the publishing industry. Yes, smut has been around for a long time. However, it is new for people to enjoy these books OPENLY and WITHOUT SHAME! Have some decorum ladies, please. Now smut is so commonplace, cartoons are on the covers, and they’re putting smut in YA, and they’re putting smut in every single genre. Make Fantasy Great Again.
Im on good reads because its a free way to keep track of my books, and an encyclopedia for books so i know where to search for books, if there's others i don't know about them and would love to know
I feel like being a sophisticated intellectual hater is just people who haven’t found their niche yet. When I started reading again (back then it was boobstagram and booktube instead booktok) I was recommended so many books that where absolutely not my taste at all and I thought I was just being a hater, my avg rating was so low I just thought I was very critical. Now, years later, I found what books I like and I’m not a hater anymore 🤷♀️ I feel like people who take pride in being a hater are just wasting their time with stuff they don’t like and should probably work on finding better books instead of hating on things. If you voluntarily pick up a Colleen Hover book when you know you hate most pop romance isn’t being critical, it’s just stupid.
I think people are just stressing because of the mainstream-ness of it. Growing up, you learn that things are more or less the same and something just goes in and out of fashion in perpetuity. These kinds of writings have always been out there. People being online merely exposes their little communities to one another who in the real world would probably not meet and care as much about what they're up to.
I think something that is completely neglected in the criticism is that a lot of people start off with the ‘brain rot’ books and then expand from there. One of my favorite Booktubers is also big on Booktok and she used to only read the popular books that could be considered low level literature but now she’s expanding beyond that and is trying to read more classics. I started reading again in 2020 like many other people with some of the popular books but now I am trying to read through my library’s Booker prize challenge. What do these critics want from new readers? To go from reading nothing to reading the Odyssey or Moby Dick?
Honestly, I got back into reading because of smut. I wasnt able to focus on anything, my attention span was shot (and I already have adhd), and a book felt like a big commitment. It was a solid year and a half of reading throwaway romance before I felt ready to tackle some old favourites and then get back into more dense books. I'm now further into LotR than I've ever made it before (halfway). I think the amount of young girls asking for smutty books, especially dark smutty books, is really concerning and I'm worried most aren't exposed to enough critical reading skills to break down what might be an attractive fantasy versus appropriate, stable (and safe!) partner behaviour. Not to mention the overexposure to sexualised material at such a young age. Its normal for teens to be curious but that doesn't mean 14 year olds should be reading mafia kidnap porn.
I have to disagree that reading nothing but smut isn’t a porn addiction. Nothing wrong with reading it, but only reading it and refusing any book without it, creating an entire online community/ persona dedicated to it and actively sexualizing people that fit the stereotypes found in smut is addiction.
the Dante vest was made by my friend, so sadly I don't know where you could get a similar one
La maglia a tema Dante è fantastica (ps ho adorato il video su Hozier e Dante, grazie a te ho ricominciato ad ascoltarlo)
@@juliettebotticelli8933 aaah che bello, sono super contenta 😌
If your friend makes more I’d be willing to buy one 😮 love it!!
24:29 24:30 24:30 24:30 24:31 24:31 24:32 24:32 24:32 24:32 24:32 24:33 24:33 24:33 25:31 25:32
when you said so many communities are 14 yr olds talking to 40 yr olds both thinking they're talking to their peers. THIS
literally have to remind myself this everytime someone has a disproportionate reaction to something I say online... like, it could literally be a child
I agree, booktok is quite a vast and varied subject, the weird stuff just gets focused on more. Also, bizarre erotica has always existed, it's not a new thing
IKR im so tired of people acting like the 10% of ppl on booktok that like crazy erotica represents everyone. One. There's nothing wrong with liking that genre, especially if its harmless. Two. A lot of this is aimed at the women who enjoy these things. If it were men, people might be grossed out but push it off. The same way people wouldn't mind as much if Only Fans models were men. Three. I'm very tired of people calling any romance with sex scenes "trashy romance." It makes no sense and is once again mostly aimed in a negative way toward women. A book is not trash just because you don't like it. And this is coming from somebody who mostly avoids "sexy" books. I find that I don't like the ones I've read so I stick to YA more. But...that's just me. I'm so sick and tired of people having different tastes and people being weird and SO judgmental about it. I'm not gonna demonize people who likes books like that because it's an OPINION. All of it is. It's another thing entirely if those people sexualise sporty randos irl or beg for smut in YA books. Otherwise, people really need to STFU and MIND THEIR BUSINESS.
The problem is the industry response to it. Booktok hyper boosting authors like coho and Romantasy makes publishers become a bit myopic rather than focusing on a wider reach. Tor is picking books like gothikana but the African author of an African mythology fantasy will be rejected. If booktok's power wasn't so skewed, then there would be less upset methinks
@@katgreer6113 be serious. It's not the 10%, it 's at least 50%
@@bubblegumnnebula no. the minorities are always the loudest. a lot of us aren't even active on social media. just take recs from there.
the main problem is that it is the more "popular" side of it, which makes 14 year-olds read smut. And i can know, i was one of them. In fact, videos bitching about booktok are the reason i realised its fucked up that not only me, but also friends of mine are reading icebreaker. I had a 13 year old friend who was reading haunting adeline.. i luckily found the other side of booktok, but my non reader friends would never. one of them read icebreaker for an assignment for school btw, just to showcase how bad it is. she'd never read a book otherwise. also, because the market is picking up on it and somehow marketing this as YA (12-18 y/o) doesn't help. (also i have yet to watch the video and have no idea what will be mentioned in it, but just wanted to say this. sorry if it doesn't make sense, english is my second language😅)
I do not like booktok but the criticism that it's only lowbrow media is really annoying bc people can like multiple things. Just bc someone likes smut books doesn't mean they only like smut books.
Like I loved 100 Years of Solitude but I also unironically love the Resident Evil movies. People are multifaceted.
Milla Jovovich is queen
THIS. It's not all or nothing.
I read 100 years of Solitude waaay too young. The only things that came through is that it seemed like nobody could have a healthy normal relationship and I kept waiting for there to be another show to drop about the massacre that everyone kept saying did not happen although the fact that people keep bringing it up means there is some communal memory that it did in fact happen. That and the incest baby with a tail
@@elizabethperry2622 girl I was 14 years old when I read this book
As a librarian, I can say that Booktok has reinvigorated our spaces. Libraries are seeing a huge uptick in popularity and engagement with people who previously might have ignored us. And once they're there, we can get them into other books. This is true of graphic novels too, which are also vilified by parents and society at large. But criticizing people for liking what they like ignores what librarians as professionals have espoused for years, which is--a love of reading begets a bigger love of reading.
I love a good graphic novel!! And you're right, sometimes you just need to get people through the door. I literally started my reading journey with manga and now I have a masters from Oxford??
I just got my library card last week. I can’t believe I’ve gone so long without one!!
We put so much more pressure on reading. What are you reading, how much are you reading, why are you reading. But, we don’t put this same pressure on other forms of media. No one really cares what movies or shows you’re watching.
there's definitely a moral quality that people attach to reading that doesn't apply to other art and media forms
I feel like there is a pressure to watch popular television shows though. I really only care about film and people are confused when I say I don't watch television
@traps-wg3gtPeople don’t tend to make moral judgements about you based on what movies you watch as much as books
Ooh, as a native Angeleno who grew up Hollywood adjacent I promise you movie/tv show snobs are a different kind of elitists. I’m not much of a movie buff outside of the horror genre-if I do watch something non-horror it’s probably a blockbuster-the looks that I get from ppl when they find out that I haven’t seen *insert critically acclaimed movie here* are scary. When they find out that I enjoy the Fast & Furious franchise AND the transformer franchise & I’ve only seen one Star Wars movie they act like I’m a war criminal 😂😂 if they ever hear me say I don’t get the hype over Citizen Kane they might actually send me to a prison camp.
People do put pressure based on movies you watch and music you listen to. I think it's not an entirely bad thing as long as the criticism is constructive and it makes a space for discussions. But it's pointless when it's done from an elitist perspective (the art I like is better therefore I am better)
I read all kinds of things including booktok romances. During my depressove episodes a really predictable, light-hearted book is sometimes the only thing that can make me cheer up and feel a bit better, why the hell would i care that some poeple think that means i'm dumb? When i turn to Kafka and Goethe right after, I'm not suddenly more mature, cooler or more intelligent...its really just a book at the end of the day, what genre someone reads doesn't define their personality and we'd all be happier if we let people read what brings them joy.
yes to all of this. I think the saddest thing about the smut moral panic is that it's basically telling people they should be intellectually rigid, one way or another: if you read "real" literature you're required to hate the booktok crowd, if you read booktok romances, you shouldn't even dare to try something more challenging because we'll know that you're just pretending to "get it". There's no curiosity here...
@@accordingtoalina100%
“Booktok Bad is distracting from things that are actually ruining literature but those things are less fun than insulting women on the internet” is perhaps one of the best closing argument lines I have ever heard
And yet erotic poetry is studied in colleges and considered high brow
I'm currently writing a lot about how at its very beginnings, the novel was considered a feminine (thus inferior) literary form, while poetry was the intellectually stimulating and therefore masculine form.
There is a world of difference between erotic poetry and YA smut. Compare the biblical Song of Songs with Colleen Hoover's It Ends With Us for example; one has psychological depth, the other is glorified female pornography.
@@scrupulousscruples 90 percent of historical erotic poetry, even highbrow erotic poetry, is misogynistic. At least the pornography knows it's being objectifying.
Also I may despise Colleen Hoover as a writer, but her books are not YA. They are adult.
@@nomisunrider6472 I wish you would tell Colleen Hoover's publishers that her books are in fact 'adult'. How can you possible know 90 percent of historical erotic poetry is misogynistic? This is a completely weightless statement.
@@scrupulousscruples Simple. I’ve read enough of it to know that most percent of what I’ve read, no matter the culture or time period, relies on misogynistic stereotypes that either reduce women to sex objects, makes presumptions about the entire female gender, or openly mocks them for having desires of their own. For example, the biblical Song of Songs you mentioned is used as a lesson to women against having premarital sex, but has no male counterpart. The Perfumed Garden demands that to be attractive, women should rarely speak and always comply, The Rodiad is simple porn, Lysistrata is about how ridiculous women having power is because they’re too oversexed to do anything, and Venus and Adonis portrays the goddess of love as a naive oversexed child who must be taught what “real” love is by a man.
This assumption that erotic content by men is art while erotic content by women is just porn is an unfortunate bias. Yes, Colleen Hoover’s stories are hardly great art, in fact I despise them. But acting as though all erotic romances are just cheap wank material and all erotic poetry is full of meaning is a disservice.
the problem with booktok is mostly the publishers. they know the marketing potential is huge and the decreasing quality of books, no matter the genre is actually on them. i read romance and spicy books and i enjoy them and i'd be a hypocrite if i'll say that they're the worst because i read some good ones over the years. however, when the publishers see what people there read and the fact that they're asking for smut nonstop (even in YA books which is... concerning), that's what we're going to get, even when the author sucks at writing smut scenes (because my god, some do). recently i tried to read some sports romances that had atrocious writing because when the publishers see that people eat up this Wattpad-style written books (but the worst kind of Wattpad books because i read some good books there), of course that's what we're going to get. some people on booktok refuse to diversify their tastes and evolve and until then publishers will continue to give us clearly unedited, bad books which is sad (not saying these people are stupid or something because they're not. the publishers capitalise on their joy for sure). i mean, let's be honest, the publishers will never listen to that 1% of us who criticises the writing quality or complain about this. and yeah, maybe some books aren't for me, but it's still frustrating, especially when i find the blurb interesting or i like the tropes of that book. also, i think you should watch Mina Le's latest video about negative reviews in which she talks about people's fear of being more critical about the media they consume and media literacy. she has some valid points too
thanks for the recommendation - someone also dmed me that video while I was editing this one! Agreed that publishers and commissioning editors have a responsibility to uphold a certain standard for what is being published, especially now that practically everyone can publish whatever they want and make it into a bestseller. Sure, publishing is a business, but it's not just like any other for-profit enterprise. Once we start making that argument then all those literary prizes and the associated gatekeepers might as well be worth nothing.
Reading is a hobby. We aren’t reading for test or writing papers. People don’t have to critically engage with a hobby. There’s no need to diversify hobby. We don’t treat any other hobby like reading.
My fiancé's mother loves books. She is reading almost 24/7, she used to be a book seller and has also worked for publishers. When we were once casually talking about TikTok and I brought up booktok and the common criticisms, she just kind of shrugged and said that, in the end, she approves of everything that motivates people to read.
13:50 I'll be honest, I was working and when you said "they are kind of pathetic and deserve to be criticised" I did a double take, said "oooooooh" like that cat meme and had to replay it. What a burn!
lol
The irony is that a lot of "intellectual" literature -- like the big postmodern classics, for instance -- feature explicit sex scenes or overtly sexual themes or tones. Yes, the smut is surrounded by hundreds of pages of dense, challenging writing, but it's still just smut. Which goes to show that no matter where anyone stands on the literature spectrum, from CoHo to genre fiction to literary fiction and beyond, we all enjoy a bit of sexy trash every now and again, and that in fact, smut isn't what makes books bad. What makes books bad is simply bad writing, and that's been around since the dawn of writing.
this
So true! In fact, some of the worst and trashiest sex scenes are written by well established and important writers😂
Lady Chatterley's Lover is considered lit.
I think there is a lot of valid discussion to be had about BookTok's impact. I always find it funny though when people assume that everyone should be reading to become better people and engage meaningfully with "literature". As you touched on, some people are reading because they know what to expect in the book. They are reading for reasons of mental health, escapism or pure entertainment.
I do have a huge grudge with the clock algorithm. People put a lot of the blame on the users’ FYP, and say “well you weren’t searching hard enough- it’s your fault you are getting these videos”. But I have blocked so many key words, searched titles I adore and interact with them and ignore/ “not interest” on the reg topics I don’t want more of. But when I start scrolling eventually I circle back to unwanted topics and I then I have to begin all over again. I am getting a little tired of people blaming other people when they complain about their FYP 😅 There are studies now that examine how toxic the algorithm on TikTok is, and there is beginning to be a lot of evidence pointing towards that. It isn’t always people’s fault they get cruddy videos on your fyp. Honestly it put me off the app altogether
I see a lot of people saying the same thing and I agree that the algorithm is a lot more insidious than we would like to believe. I know someone who worked at TikTok specifically on the algorithm and they were saying that it's got to a point that even the people working on it don't fully understand it and how it makes decisions anymore. That being said, I have TikTok and I always have to specifically look for the "spice" keyword to see what drama is going on. Admittedly, I can go several days without even opening the app and I search all sorts of things, so maybe it has to recalibrate all the time...
Booktok actually made it so that younger people are interested again in reading. I can only applaud that, because in my country, literacy among the youth is declining rapidly. Unfortunately the idea to increase VAT on books is on the table again, which seems to be more concerning than an app where people are talking about books.
may I ask which country that is?
@@accordingtoalina The Netherlands that is
I’d say I disagree with this whole “BookTok is performative” aspect. Jack Edward’s made a good point about it on a video of his, but basically I believe that people are allowed to talk about their hobbies without constantly participating in it. For example, football fans attend and watch football matches but when they don’t, they have football fan account, wear football merch or pose with a ball. That is not a performance, as it is their true interest shared in another way
While I don’t disagree w you I also have to point out that social media in general is “performative” in the sense that posing for a photo or staging a scene for a photo are in part a performance of some sort. There aren’t many candid moments posted on social media anymore. Unless it’s one of those accounts where ppl take pics of strangers reading in public, most pictures of ppl “reading” are actually just them performing for the shot. I always see pictures of ppl w an open book sitting in really uncomfortable positions bc it looks good on camera. However, that’s not necessarily a bad thing & it doesn’t mean that they don’t actually read when the cameras are off.
I have read and do read a variety of books. I have never read CoHo as a matter of purpose. I have been a reader for about 40 years and was a literature major and a Russian lit minor in college. So when i was reading Divergent and someone told me “why dont you read adult books like crime and punishment?” I answered “i have already read that, and i read it in russian. Try again.” I read a lot of ya when my daughter was a teenager bc i wanted to know what she was reading, what was filling her head. But i will say that tiktok has greatly contributed to what i call the swiftication of america. Everything seems to be geared towards the swift audience, not just music- clothing, books, home decor. And i think the cartoon covers on romance novels is a part of that.
what an interesting observation! in literary criticism in the 80s and 90s people used to talk about the "mcdonaldization" of culture, a similar process to what you're referring to as "swiftication"
When I was younger I was definitely attracted to the bad boy archetype a lot and my crushes included Wade from Hart of Dixie, Damon from the vampire diaries and Ward from agents of shield (I thought I could change him). As I’ve gotten older and I’ve been reading romance books (not just romance but other stuff as well) watching more shows and movies and analyzing my own feelings and trying to understand the world I found myself becoming less attracted to that bad boy archetype and more attached to men like Chidi from the good place, Daniel Sousa from agents of shield, Ace from Nancy Drew, and Colt from the fall guy. I am still attracted to a fun bad boy archetype but I am no longer so young that I don’t notice the misogyny, inappropriate sexual comments, or abuse. And I will say romance books did help with that because when your young you can’t distinguish between reality and fiction that much so you assume what you like in fiction must be what you want in your real life but when you get older and you understand that exploring kinks is about having consent and rules in place and making sure you and others are safe. You understand more the difference between a fantasy being explored in a safe space and abuse. So while I don’t find the things in these books harmful to me because I view them as exploring fantasy in a safe way. The key to making sure your kids are safe if they are consuming this kind of content which let’s be honest they probably are is to make sure they understand the difference between a fantasy and reality and safety and consent are extremely important.
Yes ! I love this ! 😁💚
so happy to hear that this has been your experience!
i had a very similar experience but i will never let go of wade from hart of dixie
fun fact: i named my doll after him 😭
Yes! Sadly media literacy and seperating facts from fiction is a lost art among the new generation
I don't read smut. I don't get the people who are complaining about it. Why do people care about people reading smut like who cares. Let people enjoy what they enjoy.
I agree, but I guess it’s because it marginalizes the popular market perhaps, making some of the only popular books, especially for women, about sex.
it's different when so many booktok readers only read books with smut. like just say you're a 🌽 addict.
I can understand why people who don't like smut (myself included) might get annoyed at just how many books are now including it and how you have to be more careful to avoid it when buying new releases but at the same time there are so many books with no smut out there that there are more than enough options for a lifetime of smutless reading.
It's also possible that publishers are pressuring authors into adding smut to their stories for marketability but that also happens with any other book trend (like the ya dystopia boom).
In short I just think it's people being annoyed with a trend even though there are many other options available.
Yep, these last few years there's been a looooot of puritanism in online spaces. For some reason people prefer to bash smut/smut readers (mostly young women tbh) instead of promoting their favorite stuff. And I'm no big smut reader myself, I'm just tired of seeing this stuff happening over and over again
@@haileegonzales7343that’s super dumb. there’s like millions of books out there
I'm agree with everything that you said in the video, but the fact fantasy is as popular as romantasy and smut. Unfortunately some fantasy readers and UA-camrs made valid videos and as a whole the genre is slowly disappearing and it is replaced with romance fantasy stories or short novels. Probably this is also due to the fact the attention spam of the average reader is short and people don't have the patience to read big epic fantasy novels. I won't argue that publishers probably are also not interested of this type of literature and unfortunately for the last 5 years I can't recall more than 2/3 books been published.
Non-smutty fantasy is dying and often I find myself looking through the YA and younger reader section in libraries and bookstores for non-smutty fantasy books. I don't dislike smut, don't get me wrong, I just like it in measured amounts and in fantasy it seems to be on every page (looking at you ACOTAR and the Empyrean series). This then takes away from the plot and characters I feel, in most cases, rather than adding to the plot by increasing tension or developing a relationship between characters. It just seems to be thrown in there for marketing value. I often find that older fantasy books published in the early to mid 2000s often are better than modern ones, mainly because they don't contain smut which forces an emphasis on the characters and plot, in my opinion. I don't dislike romantasy or smutty books, I just wish we had more fantasy novels being written and published that don't contain excessive smut. Some of the best fantasy authors that I've read are Taran Matharu, Brandon Sanderson, Leigh Bardugo, Philip Reeve and Philip Pullman. But this is all my opinion and no hate to you if you do enjoy romantasy or dislike long fantasy novels, it's not everyone's cup of tea and I appreciate that.
There has definitely been more fantasy/high fantasy being published and self-published over the last few years. Im not super in the scene but I've seen titles like Priory of the Orange Tree and Gods of the Wrydwood.
I think because of the last few years romantasy has become a genre that people talk about separately from fantasy now rather than lumping them all in together and romantasy is considerably more popular than fantasy alone so I think it would feel like fantasy is dying off a bit, but it isnt and it never will. Publishers know there is still great demand for epic fantasy. You only have to look at popular media to see that (lotr and got) the generally public really enjoy epic/high fantasy 😊
@loki_doki-my5hs same here, I really crave for big fantasy book such as Wheel of time, Robin Hobb and Malazan. Unfortunately even Brandon Sanderson is sliding into more YA , because most of the plot sounds so repetitive and the story is not complicated at all like he is try to explain all to younger audiences.
Shorter books are not, to my knowledge, published more often because of the short attention span. It's because a) paper is expensive and b) many publishers don't want to give an unknown author a chance of writing a long, epic story. Hell. they even don't want to give a chance to authors who aren't well established! It's a roulette for them! And publisher, whether we like it or not, are a business and they care about their sales.
Or maybe you're looking in the wrong places? I highly recommend digging deeper into indie scene! There're many authors who publish epic/long books who aren't trad published.
@@loki_doki-my5hsthe first book of the Empyrean has literally one sex scene.
the thing that i'll never understand is people don't bat an eye when bad movies or music exists and is enjoyed by people, but reading has this elite academia base of people that will never let it go when people read things not meant to be intelligent
please keep calling out those people who yells BOOKTOK BAD just because it's "cool to hate booktok" when in truth they don't actually give nuanced arguments about booktok and instead more focused on making fun of badly written smut novels.
nah let people make a joke video
Absolutely love your videos. It’s like talking with a friend who gets how important books and the community are to me. I don’t have book lover friends so thank you! ☺️
This makes me so happy 🥹
omg same
Thank you so much for this! Last year I wrote a post on my blog about how cringe and stupid it was to blame Booktok for the supposed “death of literature.” This sentiment screams elitism and ignorance. I didn’t even know there were people having moral panics alongside all the other crap! God that’s so cringe! Do better, yall. Come on. There’s literally thousands upon thousands of books out there. You guys don’t have to read Fourth Wing.
There’s some real criticisms you can throw at booktok and its overconsumption and there’s some real criticisms you can throw at specific books, authors and even fanbase but to blame an online platform and romance readers for the downfall of an entire medium… that’s embarrassing.
I’m so glad more and more videos are calling this way of thinking out. It’s very validating.
I think when people say it's going to lead to the "death of literature" its likely a hyperbole? Don't quote me but I think it might be an exaggeration to the effects or the future effects that Booktok might have on people and what they consume.
my attitude to booktok is similar to my attitude to religion, I will not take a part in it and my values lies elswhere, however I will "defend" your right to partake in it and enjoy it (as long as it doesn't harm others)
I used to read 60 books a year simply because I LIKED it. However, the more I got involved with the reading community, I found myself forcefully reading several books just to boost my ego in front of these people. And guess what? Last year, while trying to increase my goal and refine the books I read, I only finished 12 books. I'm struggling to free myself from social pressure and your channel helps me a lot! Thank you for that, the number of books I read is no longer a priority, I just read. :)
Well done you xxx
I don't really watch booktok because I like long form reviews/recommendations, but at one point, ALL of my youtube recommendations were "booktok bad" and I started ignoring creators who rely on mentioning "booktok" in their video titles to get views. The criticism is often extremely surface-level and doesn't actually address issues that tiktokers have with their own communities.
I used to get booktoks but I liberally didn't interact with them at all, I watch book content on UA-cam because I need long rants/vlogs/ranty reviews and the shorter content isn't my thing, and I haven't seen a single video since. People forget social media is customisable for some reason.
Actually, an author recently divulged that the blubs on the back are most often created from the reviewer receiving the synopis and small excerpt of the book by which to create a quote to be placed on the book. They aren't required to actually read the book to put a blurb on it.
Oh dear
That's pretty shady. Where did you hear it?
who's gonna tell people that reading classics doesn't make you smarter than someone who reads primarily romance?
I was listening to your video on the background, and because you don't do the whole 'see you in the next one' outro thing, the autoplay switched to Leoni's video and for a moment I thought this was a surprise collab. No idea why you need this bit of information, but I thought it was funny.
I dislike Tiktok in general, but to be fair, I don't think this app creates any problems that weren't already here (ok, maybe decreasing attention span, but, like, Instagram already existed). This applies to the bookish part of it as well, and there doesn't seem to be more to it than that.
P.S. shoutout to the bros who found the culprits of the downfall of publishing (them being women). I knew you lads won't disappoint.
Oh I love her channel! Manifesting a collab
Completely agree, I only read classics and award-winners over the popular books on the market and there's oodles of amazing literary fiction out there, but if all you're seeing is what's reinforced in the BookToy echo chamber you're limiting yourself to many great modern works.
and I would add to this - a lot of award-winning books are also flying off the shelves!!
Ive seen a lot of people compare smut enjoyers to corn addiction and I can't tell you how far that's reaching. Theyre watering down what its like to REALLY be a corn addict.
As a writer, the tropification is really frustrating. My story is good, but it doesn't fit a lot of the tropes so i won't get the same kind of attention and it also makes it harder than ever to be able to do anything but self-published.
1:47 you say that, and I agree with most of your points but having watched these videos, they make good points as well
100% - Alisha's video is very good and I've made similar points to hers in past videos. What I'm trying to highlight in this video is that we seem stuck in the outrage stages without any idea of what to do next
Lol I was having this very discussion with my friends. No "booktok bla bla" videos are adding anything to the discussion. We had these same discussions about book bloggers, booktube, booksta, book twitter. Let it rest
I will never understand hating so much an author and then reading ALL their books just to hate, like, babes I think you could use that time more wisely. It makes no sense to make fun of people reading a book while reading the same book AND making videos about it, the amount of work out of something they deemed "stupid" will always amaze me. 😂
well.. it does get views
SJM anti-fandom in a nutshell.
11:45 "the nature of social media nowadays is that everything is a hyperbole." She said, hyperbollically. :D
I’m not a perfect person
@@accordingtoalina I thought it was funny 😊
You really hit the nail on the head here. I have many criticisms of booktok and bookstagram, mostly regarding the algorithm, the “trope-ification” (as you put it), the mis-labelling of some romance as YA, and how it’s hard to curate certain spaces, meaning you have young teens and adults interacting even when a certain space isn’t meant for one of those demographics. However, I also dislike the way a lot of the valid criticism gets overpowered with the same “women are killing literature and erotica is a new thing which is taking over reading.” There definitely are some cringe aspects, and also valid issues with how some books handle darker topics, but overall everything gets boiled down to shallow arguments which lack nuance and often are rooted in misogyny. Thanks for bringing some of the nuance back to the conversation
so happy you enjoyed!
The same argument has been going around ever since the 1700s, if you look at the history of books, when books became democratized and the question of women reading became popular, with misogynistic men throwing around this idea that women only read "romanesque" books, literally nothing has changed. Except that we're in the 21st century, and people still use these misogynistic arguments
Great video! I think people should just let people read what they want to read and leave them alone.
There is such varied content on all social media platforms and Booktok is no different.
I liked your discussion of older books not always being great. For example all the pulp books of the 50s and 60s which included terrible SciFi and romance books. Although those SciFi books have some pretty awesome cover art.
To me reading is no different than streaming bad shows for some people. They simply want to read mindlessly and escape life while being entertained.
I'm not on booktok (or any Tok lol) but your videos are so compelling and beautifully articulated, I keep clicking. Definitely have to subscribe now! P.S The square space ad was so well done I was thinking "do I need a website???"
Hahahaha thank you so much! Go ahead, get that website
Once again a really enjoyable video. You succeed in bringing nuance to a platform becoming increasingly more polarised. Great job as always 😊
thank you so much for watching!!
I’m asexual and I so find it hard to read poplit nowadays without steam. Especially with Romance. I used to love romance when I feel like reading one, now I think I’ve gone on a year without them. The overpopularization of smut in literature is concerning, especially when these are the books the bookstores and the algorithm pushes to the general populace.
Fellow ace here! I totally get your frustration..
When you see smut recommendations it is because that's the contest you engage with. There are a lot of booktuber for example that don't read much smut and say themselves that they don't feel comfortable with reading a lot of it. Interact with those people and you will find something for yourself
I come at this from another angle. As someone who's had a toe in the pool of fanfiction for a couple of decades now, I don't understand why people would pay for printed smut when there's a whole internet full of it. If it's because they think it's easier to find the good stuff that way, I recommend searching by number of likes and comments and bookmarks. 🤪😉
@-autumnfeelings That's a misconception. You get content the algorithm thinks you will click on. If 10 million book readers clicked on a smut romantasy tiktok talking about the size of a dragon's cock the algorithm will assume you will want to see because you're a book reader. That's called "trending" and "popular" content - it gets pushed
I'm the same. I used to like reading romance but it's hard to find romance books that are thoughtfully and maturely written and that don't have sexual content. I guess that's just not what sells. It's gotten to the point where I skip those scenes in books and generally steer away from the romance genre.
YA and romantasy are the book equivalent of pop music or reality tv. i have a bachelors degree in english lit and sometimes i wanna read some ACOTAR or The Hunger Games. We contain multitudes. Also, fwiw, the first novel ever written was smut.
I love every point you've made, and we're all entitled to our own opinions. Some people are just very sensitive.
I started on the smutty side of booktok but I actually migrated to reading horror/thrillers! There is a lot of things wrong with booktok but it helped me get back into reading.
this is great to hear! good for you x
Why are people required to read "literature"? If I want to read Goosebumps for the rest of my life that's my prerogative. So much content online is trying to lash out at something deemed too popular by trying to make it seem stupid to like it. I don't think it will work on Romance like it did for Stanley cups though.
I think what people don't realize is if this is what you're seeing on your FYP, it is based on YOU. It is because the algorithm thinks this is what is likely to get you to keep engaging. You're telling on yourself a little bit, if saying: "Oh, everyone is just talking about sex in books on booktok." That's cause that's the only content you're engaging in. That says more about you than the people making the videos. Whether it's because that's what you're genuinely interested in or you're just rage watching that is showing up on your feed because that's what you want to see
I'm on booktook and I never knew people on UA-cam hated it.
Sorry to bring this drama into your life lol
Enjoyed Alisha's video and also really enjoyed this! Glad to have discovered two good new book commentary creators in the same month, keep it coming :)
thank you for this video i’m honestly so tired of every video essay trying to make the same exact statements about “booktok=bad” that lack any nuance
So tired of people acting like booktok is some unique evil and not just the same fandom drama I've seen since I was a kid
While I like Alisha's video essay and do agree with some of her arguments, I couldn't help but feel how pretentious and gatekeepy her point of view was. Her comment section was especially filled with the most elists crap I've ever seen. I get where she's coming from, but some people just want to read fast food books and that's ok. I watch brain dead movies and tv shows to relax, but consume books and literature for when I want to expand my world view. Why does she criticize people reading to turn off their brain, but not the people who watch movies and tv shows to do the same? All these form of media do the same at the end of the day.
I don't know why there are so many video essays criticising people reading "fast food" books and not doing the same for the people who have been doing the same with tv, movies, and art. There's something so hypocritical and misogynistic about this that bothers me but I'm too stupid express what it is.
Yes, thank you. Likewise, I watched Alisha’s video and although I found some of her points compelling, I had similar issues with her arguments. Mostly that everything isn’t black and white, and that the want/need to consume escapist media can coexist with one’s ability to approach other pieces of work critically. It also felt weird that her comment section was not very diverse, as you said. Anyway, it is great that there is nuanced discourse going on on this topic though; good thing that I stumbled upon this video.
Omg I've never thought about it like that...I watch the trashiest TV sometimes but always like my books "well written" and "literary" (whatever that really means), yet watching "bad" TV isn't vilified like reading "bad" books is. I mean lets be real, "bad" TV isn't going to win an academy award just as the book equivalent is unlikely to win the Booker Prize. Everything has its space and function.
I think her point (or what I got out of the video anyway) is exactly the idea that thoughtfully critiquing a written work shouldnt be automatically looked down on as "pretentious and gatekeepy". there are amazing video essayists on youtube thoughtfully critiquing junk food TV and bad movies and all other forms of "brain dead" media. (Willie muse does this best imo!) just because something is silly or escapist or just for fun doesn't mean we can't also look at it thoughtfully and interpret themes, motifs, where the piece was effective in what it meant to do and where it failed. i don't think it's misogynistic to say that it's good exercise for your brain to reflect on the content you consume and pick out what made you enjoy it or where it fell flat for you. sorry for the essay but just my two cents on her commentary!
@@sonny423 I'm fully aware of video essays criticising trash tv, I watch them myself and consume brain dead media as well. My issue with Alisha's essay, and most video essays on this booktok subject, is the absolute condescending attitude towards the people consuming "low brow" books. Humanity has written horrible books, smut, and low effort literature since we started writing. We're acting as if this is a new phenomenon. It's not. She mentioned the importance of books in our political system. That importance can be said for any other art media. And like any art media we have thought provoking pieces, duds, and ones that are made just to be consumed for fun. There are people who criticize these films and tv shows, yeah, but there aren't as much vitriol for the people who consume those film as for the people in booktok. And I'm not saying these type of books should not be criticized and analyzed, they very much should be, no matter how camp or ridiculous they are. Like I said, I do agree with many of her points. I'm just saying the criticizing should stop at the books. Whether she wanted to or not, she became incredibly condescending to the women who just want to read smut. And that's when she lost me. If a girl wants to read smut, or low effort books to have fun after a long day of work, she does not need to be worried about feeling stupid about it.
I can say I enjoy b horror movies, call of duty, or reality tv without much judgement from other people, but I've met book lovers who are absolutely ashamed of saying they like romance books, a Colleen Hoover book, or smut. That's so stupid. And the more I watch those type of videos the more clear it becomes that it's because of misogyny. We clearly still have so much work to do to work through our internalized misogyny. There are so many popular male authors that are just as "mediocre" as Colleen hoover, or SJM, yet there isn't the same stigma surrounding them as with their female counterparts.
I can go on. But the more I think on this, the more depressed I'm becoming and it's late.
@@Hi-Hi1990 Shakespear was low-brow in his times and look how it has aged
I feel like the more people pile on with the 'hate' of Tiktok/booktok the more people will double down and exasabate (not correct spelling) the issue.
My issues are the grammatical errors or things that a good editor should help the author to create a better narrative.
My favourite thing about the Tiktok algorithm is it's an onion. The more you watch other more critical videos on books the more likely you are to see that content. For example my for you page is a nice mix of smut, sci-fi and the classics (Jane eyre, sense and sensibility, Dracula).
I've definitely seen people double down on silly takes just because they were sick of being piled-on
Thank you so much for weighing in on this topic. I applaud your thorough discussion of similar videos and what it all means. I'm grateful that I don't feel the need to download tiktok because I already had my exploration phase through fanfiction websites.
My current concern is how best to approach someone from the younger generation (not just BookTok, but TikTok scrolling in general) that is still going through that phase for themselves (my cousins, for example, who are 5-6 years younger than me).
The conclusion I reached for now is that everyone is on their own journey, but what I can offer is an alternative shared experience, like teaching them how to paint. They can decide for themselves which path they prefer in the end.
I'm going through this with my soon-to-be 14 yo brother whose activity of choice is to be on roblox with his friends. And similarly, I'm not his parent so I can't tell him what to do, but if I suggest something that we can do together he doesn't say no.
I love classics, and I don't call myself an intellectual because of that. BUT at the same time I don't like the blacklash as a mostly classic reader as myself are getting just because it seems that we are reading those books just to feel "superior" to other book readers
Everyone can read what genre they truly enjoy without the need to make others feels bad because of that
When you mentioned the book Black Oxen, it triggered a memory and I went to check my bookshelf. I own a copy of that book in its original published date of 1923! I haven't read it, though 😁
whoaaaa a first edition!
I do wonder if the uptick in the consumption of spicy books by young/new-adults might have something to do with them not having as many/any actual physical sexual encounters or relationships. (This isn't a slight, I'm not passing judgement on the genre/trop itself here, just wondering if their is any causation at play, as opposed to mere correlation?) I can't remark on TikTok because I don't use it. I signed up for a account when the platform first landed, but I'm old and TikTok gives me whiplash with how fast-paced it is...I already have aching joints...I can't afford to add a sore neck into the mix too, lol.
In the video I refer to here, Princess Weekes makes a point about how people are looking for sex in books because it's kind of disappeared from film and tv over the past decade or so, for various reasons (mainly the way actors are mistreated in the making of those scenes)
@@accordingtoalina Do people still watch TV? How quaint, lol. I don't really watch any films either so I haven't noticed it not being there. But then I never really cared for it in books or on film either. I'm a Gen X-er and have always been far more interested in the taking part in the act, than watching or reading about it. And that seems to have been the case for most people I grew with. We wanted to grow up fast, have hook-ups, have relationships, move out (even if it was into some low-rent hovel and we had to work gross jobs to do it. Now there seems to be a strange change in the increased desire to grow up a quickly, emotional fragility has gotten more common and more debilitating, younger people are exposed to more, sooner, via the tech in their phones, but less mature when it comes to the age when we'd expect to see them striking out on their own. Everything feels topsy turvy and we still don't know or fully understand the impact has been on generations of kids who grew up with the internet always having been there, their whole lives. I'm just glad I don't have any kids myself because I'd hate to be a parent right now.
This razor-sharp video upends the simplest BookTok conversations, crackling with the illuminating wit also present in Alina's 200K plus video BookTok and overconsumption.
Brilliant. Intimate. Stunning.
as someone who reads smutty romances and classics alike, i hate the elitist undertones of this movement. i also can’t help but feel it is very misogynistic… women have been made fun of for consuming ‘unintellectual’ media for years. there is nothing inherently wrong with someone reading a smutty romance book opposed to reading a classic novel. you’re also not more intelligent or a better person because of what you do or don’t read. nobody is ruining literature. i will read whatever the hell i want, and invite these ‘critics’ to do the same.
I noticed the shirt halfway through the video and as an Italian who has a very positive relationship with my beloved Dante Alighieri I think it's incredible. Also this video changed my perspective on BookTok, thanks!
aaah bacini da Londra e grazie del commento xx
I think the real problem with smut is that it is often poorly written and then propped up by bodice ripping. I read a clean paragraph of 50 shades and it seemed like someone's ESL homework. That said, I don't care what people read, I just get bored with seeing people raving about the same ten books everywhere I look. Perhaps it's some sort of trash fatigue.
Your bookish essays are so cathartic and I feel like they articulate what a majority of the community thinks. The nuance of it all, etc.
I admit I cackled at the deadpan “use a search bar” 😂🙌🏼
The “OMG I’m obsessed” hyperbole sensationalism is so fatiguing. And so vague and seemingly disingenuous. If all you have to say about a book is one word, why bother? If you said that about 20 other books in the same fiscal year, how does it stand out? Can we put thought into our feelings on the stories we encounter anymore?
I was just thinking about this. And you’re 100% correct!
I want to know who is an intellectual online so I know what kind of taste a person has if I’m getting book recs and not waste my time on yet another Colleen Hoover recommendation. There can be a time and place for light fiction, but sometimes that’s not the mood.
That being said, her books only come up when I *search* for those books. We just need better hot keys.
I feel like another reason why most people on TikTok lean towards books with the same tropes is because they know that since they like that specific trope, they’ll like the book, which makes them feel better about investing in purchasing it. Book prices are insanely high these days and not a a lot of people can afford to simply pick one up and say, “Hey, I’ve never explored with this genre before, let me buy it to see if I like it” because if they don’t end up liking it, it’ll just be a waste of money. That’s why most of the young users on booktok continue to buy books that they know they’ll enjoy, which will end up forming the bulk of their content, thus continuing the cycle.
this is why we should use libraries!
I am one of those people who felt like the oversaturation of spice was a problem online but also I know that I'm just a hater and I can ignore people with bad taste if I want
So taking a step back, I can see how many flaws there are in this tiktok outrage. A couple things come to mind as to reasons WHY this outrage might exist:
I notice whenever people online see an old person, an older woman with a taste for smut or who read a lot of erotica as a child, they uplift her. We understand that our mothers and grandmothers in a lot of cases werent allowed to enjoy sex or even enjoy reading depending on where theyre from. But for young people it seems almost too predictable that they would be interested in or OBSESSED with sex. And so theres something there about not wanting to be stereotypical or predictable about our interests. Kind of like not wanting to be "mainstream" or when songs or movies get "overrated" to the point that something once critically acclaimed now becomes overdone.
Another thing I feel is this perception that popular books are shallow and "anti-intellectual" might be misplaced fear about an overall sense of apathy on the internet to real life issues. Maybe you read a book about the struggles of black americans because you suddenly became aware of them and it scares you to see that nobody else is experiencing this education with you. The thing is our personal lives will never directly mirror the lives of people online. And their social awareness and political involvement may simply not be representee by their online persona but that doesnt mean it doesnt exist
These are just theories of mine I cant exactly prove thay theyre true but I wonder if there is any truth to them at all.
absolutely loved Alisha's video and absolutely loved this one and I think the reason for that is that both of you are so genuinely passionate about literature and publishing, as opposed to so many creators making videos about booktok just because it's the current rage-bait topic
it is no surprise but still upsetting that measured and thoughtful opinions will always gain more traffic than someone's butthurt. same as emotional 10sec book recs will draw more attention then deep analysis and attempts on engaging when recommending a complex book, with no spoilers and/or mocking.
thanks for the video.
Can everyone just shut up and either read or don't read? Period !
this video came at the right time for me as I've talking to one of my friends about how we feel like the booktok vs serious books thing has reached culture war levels of hysteria, which only amplify the impression that no one is reading anymore/ people are only reading shitty books. And yes (!!!!) it's also becoming obvious at this point that people are making "booktok bad" content because it gets views lol
Booktok gave me so many good books wether it was romance or Not and I try to comment on intense criticism videos that it’s not so bad but everyone is so mad and mean and I’m not even saying anything untrue or wrong
I agree on this wholeheartedly, however my direct experience with the consequences of these popular books literally leaves we with nothing to read in my town. I live in Germany, and there is a nice bookstore in my town with an English books section. Couple months ago it was maybe 30-40% "booktok books", which was alright, because I still could get something else. But now it's literally 80% or so, and the other 20% is rarely changed. So yeah, while booktok is a vast community, the "spice" fanfic-like books are so prominent they now leave me with almost no choice here... I know it's a bit niche, sorry, but still. Just wanted to share.
I've never thought about the age differences of those fighting in the comments, but it makes sense. Comparing what I liked reading when I was 17 vs what I like now is eye-opening enough. Some of them I can barely get through today. So we should definitely let the 14yo online enjoy what they want to.
“Booktok bad” bad
Booktube and Authortube are just as bad about tropification.
I watched an author give writing advice that his multi award-winning book didn't follow a single piece of.
Nah.
Oooh name names!
That's fair.
I think most of the BookTok criticism is centered and focused around these questionable romance/smut books (as well as the trope-ification phenomenon). And then people assume that no one who's on the app "really cares" about "true Literature". There's a little bit of everything, though: some BookTokers enjoy romance, some enjoy more Greco-Roman and Western Classics, some enjoy fiction and fantasy... ultimately, you have a say on the content you engage with.
exactly! there's literally a man on there teaching people about the history of illuminated manuscripts and antique books and he has 300k+ followers soooooo
The problem for me is when booktok and the frenzy for “trashy” books drive the publishing industry to the point where nothing new is published for those of us who are not interested in smut or YA, and we can never find what we’re looking for in bookstores. I was all about “let people read what they want” until I walked to the Indigo (largest bookstore chain in Canada) in my city to find that they only had four copies of books of the author I was looking for (of course they didn’t have the book I was looking for) but an ENTIRE shelf for Sarah J Maas books, and tables packed with these books with generic cartoon covers that we all now know are smut
Chad Chad is peak content and also "negative"
I'm literally scripting a video abt this exactly rn and this video articulated my points so much better than I was gonna thank you so much.
I’m so glad but hope you’re still making that video!!
I’m so disappointed when people slam specific genres as if you can not enjoy all sorts of books. Curiosity can get you much further.
some people forget sturgeon's law exists for a very good reason, most things of a single category will not be to your taste or even good, and it's been like that since forever
Great framing! I absolutely agree with you.
As somebody who was raised in Rio de Janeiro, then later in life moved to Europe, I feel this new societal push to define myself through a main hobby, a main skill or something about my work. Now when I look at things like 'talent shows' that didn't exist in my original cultural context, I always think they are one of the many many many pieces that create such a cultural and relational environment. Even the way people ask questions here push towards that direction - and I might not have noticed it at all, if I hadn't experience a different context. You're right, it's wild.
I always had a feeling that this tropification of genre lit has to do with the way algorithms distribute information. As in: if you talk in terms of keywords, tiktok will reward you with the content you like because you make its job easier. What do you think? This is something that started with people or are we being nudged by software?
Loved this video, especially the last line! 'Booktok haters ' are no better than the community they are trying to shame and care too much about appearing intellectually superior by distancing themselves from them. Everyone cares too much how they look to others and are losing sight of the literature in the process. P.S Alina, do you have twitter, would love to follow you on there :)
yessss there's a lot of virtue signalling here, too! I don't really HAVE twitter - I have a twitter account just so I can check out topics that interest me on there (also the main reason I keep a tiktok account) but I never post anything
I was really hoping that they'd move on from calling sex "spice", now that "Dune" got so much mainstream attention.
What does dune have to do with this? (I didn't watch it)
Even though I have a lot of issues with booktok, some valid criticisms and some that are more personal, I also think it is a bit dramatic to say that it is ruining literature. But I also think hate on booktok (not criticism but hate) does redirect the anger. Granted nothing that we do exists in a vacuum and yes our reading taste and popular books do have some affect on publishing, but at the end of the day the changes we see in publishing is happening at the decisions of the publishers and other big corporations in the literary world. I am really glad to see you include some of the actual issues at the end.
great argument. i appreciate you!!
tysm, I APPRECIATE YOU!!!
hey the title of this video wasn't lieing, that was a pretty shallow and half hearted defense against criticism.
I can ignore smutty books, but I CANNOT ignore the influence this filth has on the publishing industry. Yes, smut has been around for a long time. However, it is new for people to enjoy these books OPENLY and WITHOUT SHAME! Have some decorum ladies, please. Now smut is so commonplace, cartoons are on the covers, and they’re putting smut in YA, and they’re putting smut in every single genre. Make Fantasy Great Again.
Im on good reads because its a free way to keep track of my books, and an encyclopedia for books so i know where to search for books, if there's others i don't know about them and would love to know
Thanks, Alina: always interesting, and your chapter titles are just the best, by the way. :-)
I feel like being a sophisticated intellectual hater is just people who haven’t found their niche yet. When I started reading again (back then it was boobstagram and booktube instead booktok) I was recommended so many books that where absolutely not my taste at all and I thought I was just being a hater, my avg rating was so low I just thought I was very critical. Now, years later, I found what books I like and I’m not a hater anymore 🤷♀️ I feel like people who take pride in being a hater are just wasting their time with stuff they don’t like and should probably work on finding better books instead of hating on things. If you voluntarily pick up a Colleen Hover book when you know you hate most pop romance isn’t being critical, it’s just stupid.
I don't assume everyone is hateing. It can be funny to laugh at yourself if it's done in good faith.
I feel that's the same thing philosophers did in the 19th century but in a book format
What did they do?
@@ayareyad they exchanged their opinions with each other writing responses in a literary form
we love a bit of back and forth
I think people are just stressing because of the mainstream-ness of it. Growing up, you learn that things are more or less the same and something just goes in and out of fashion in perpetuity. These kinds of writings have always been out there. People being online merely exposes their little communities to one another who in the real world would probably not meet and care as much about what they're up to.
Just here to interact with your video because I enjoyed it
I think something that is completely neglected in the criticism is that a lot of people start off with the ‘brain rot’ books and then expand from there. One of my favorite Booktubers is also big on Booktok and she used to only read the popular books that could be considered low level literature but now she’s expanding beyond that and is trying to read more classics. I started reading again in 2020 like many other people with some of the popular books but now I am trying to read through my library’s Booker prize challenge. What do these critics want from new readers? To go from reading nothing to reading the Odyssey or Moby Dick?
Honestly, I got back into reading because of smut. I wasnt able to focus on anything, my attention span was shot (and I already have adhd), and a book felt like a big commitment. It was a solid year and a half of reading throwaway romance before I felt ready to tackle some old favourites and then get back into more dense books. I'm now further into LotR than I've ever made it before (halfway).
I think the amount of young girls asking for smutty books, especially dark smutty books, is really concerning and I'm worried most aren't exposed to enough critical reading skills to break down what might be an attractive fantasy versus appropriate, stable (and safe!) partner behaviour. Not to mention the overexposure to sexualised material at such a young age. Its normal for teens to be curious but that doesn't mean 14 year olds should be reading mafia kidnap porn.
I have to disagree that reading nothing but smut isn’t a porn addiction. Nothing wrong with reading it, but only reading it and refusing any book without it, creating an entire online community/ persona dedicated to it and actively sexualizing people that fit the stereotypes found in smut is addiction.