How to time an HPI CDI Ignition System on Puch, Tomos, Derbi, and other mopeds
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- Опубліковано 9 січ 2021
- This is a quick video about how to time an HPI CDI moped ignition.
If you found it helpful and would like to support me you can buy me a coffee.
www.buymeacoffee.com/Cornped
I timed this Puch Polini at 1mm before top dead center or 16 degrees btdc. After I break in this kit I will advance the timing a little more if my head temps are low.
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Here is a link to the HPI system for Puch and the handy Puck Timing sheet.
www.treatland.tv/PUCH-HPI-CDI...
Puch Timing Sheet with degree wheel.
www.mopedarmy.com/forums/file...
#cornped #hpi #mopeds
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This was a huge help for me. Thanks for taking the time.
Also, I fill all electrical plugs with dielectric grease. Harbor Freight has some but it can be easy to miss. Gray tube with a small spectrum of colors on it.
I've had my HPI sitting around for a while I'm embarrassed to say for how long but this has got me feeling better about setting it up.
Get it going! Its so nice,
This is unreasonably well made.
Haha, Thank you! Thats why I made it! I couldn't find a good one on youtube!
Thanks for all the great videos! Been trying to hook up this HPI CDI to the stock Honda hobbit wiring and it’s been pretty tough haha. But I appreciate all the straight forward information.
Yeah! Get that hobbit going!
Ya it's confusing me with my hobbit being the stater is on other side
Again these videos are so good thanks man.
Best video out. You killed it!
thank you for taking the time
Thanks for god instructions and great video😎👍🏻
that intro was BADass. your videos are great.
haha. Thank you!
Wow, your videos are excellent Maize. Surprised you do not have more subscribers, Troy D.
Thanks for the HPI lesson! O'ya GREAT intro :) Honest²
Great video, I was considering a cdi!
@@Corn-ped I will!
Great video! Seems so simple when u explain how to set it up. Was a bit worried before installing it on my 2 maxi's but was really simple. But I'm gonna use the left and bottom holes for the plate as u did, had no idea u got more play by using just those 2. Regards from sweden
Awesome I'm glad it helped.
@@Corn-ped saw ur video today, had my hpi's installed last summer. What I meant was, had I seen ur video before installing them I would have been more confident 😁👍. But super informative for those who haven't installed their's yet. Keep posting maxi videos, allways fun to watch, most puch videos out there is in German or Dutch and I can't understand sh*t 😁
Hur många mm förtändning tog du på maxin? 1mm? Har 2st hpi 2 ten som ska på en Maxi och en sachs 505. 505an får ja testa. 😊
@@haidenzeroonesix5939 2mm. Enl anvisningarna ska det vara mellan 2-4mm 👍
@@looken883 tack! Ja det står ju det. Men vart lite kluven när man ser endel säger mindre. 😁 Får börja med 2 så märker man 😊
8:16 8:16 I'm installing this exact ignition on a Sachs 504. The engine cranks counter clockwise so I will use the left side timing mark. I remember seeing this video last year when I was working on a Yamaha Jog. Crankshaft thread is stripped so that's my next challenge is to retap it. M8 x 1 I believe. Thanks for the vid!
Awesome! Yeah rethread it and go to town!
@@Corn-pedrethreaded the shaft and installed the HPI ignition. Fat Blue Spark with a flick of my foot! Running video soon - thanks bro!
@@ogbigtsbikesandstuff887 yeah! That's great to hear!
@@Corn-ped Foxi is alive! A little raggedy, but running none the less
ua-cam.com/users/shortspSzx9_pXAZM?si=kdMRDotPpk7bXrAF
That foxi link doesnt work.
Oh sh!t thanks for having my build on your computer screen 👍
Awesome! Get it done!
Great vid!!! Thank you. I get it.
Awesome! Thank you!
Fantastic!!!!!
Thank you!
Top Work
Thanks 🔥
Okay...so I put the piston in a position just before TDC and put the magnet on with the mark lined up to the fire mark on the plate. It was good, but a little down on power and running hot. I moved the plate and Temps went down, so I know it was timing.
But now I want to move the plate to adjust the timing...but i am moving it in reference to what? Other than its original position. Like how can I find, say, 14°?
Thank you so much for the video. But I still got 1 question: the Marks on the left where iT says HPI2TEN. Dont you have to do anything with that Marks?
Stil thank you for the video🙏🙏
Just upgraded to an HPI on my 64cc polini kit Puch Magnum (za50), I have gotten it to start by taking off the air filter and choking the carb (real bing, 15mm) with my thumb, but will not idle. Is this a timing thing? or is it something in my carb like jetting? It feels like my old CR80 when it had too small of a pilot jet after kitting it to a 90cc. Any thoughts? the video was a huge help, thank you so much for taking the time to make this. Carb was recently rebuilt, but I don't know the jet sizing in it now.
Yeah that sounds like the wrong jetting.
Do you know where to find the plastic black frame of the front of your bike? Is very cool looking! Thanks
Its from a European puch maxi macho!
I have a puch engine that made in india
It comes in automatic transmision
And the ignition is a bit different
It has a what japanese called pulser (ignition contact)
And the stator can't be adjust
I change the crank seal and check the compression is good
I'm in a confusion cz it won't start
The air is blow a little through the carb and it hasn't reed valve
The spark is good
Ignition is good
The compresion is good
The gas is good
Any idea what else should i check ?
Wanted to ask if I set up the HPI CDI kit on my puch does it come with an ignition, or do I still need to pedal to start?
@@Corn-ped alright, but I imagine the performance of this is quite superior to points?
Nice. What is that frame fairing/duct thing from? I like that
Its from a European Puch Macho moped! Its super cool!
@@Corn-ped very cool,very unique especially in USA, good effort
Thanks for the content.
Keep up the good work.
בס'ד
Thanks, will do!
Thanks for the great video! Is your Puch engine flywheel rotating clockwise when running? I timed my Suzuki PV50 with HPI210K053 ignition to 2mm, as it was instructed. But I'm not able to get the motor running. I have gas, spark and compression, so I suspect the timing. PV50 rotates to counter clockwise, so I timed the piston to the mark left on the stator diameter. I'll try with less advance per your experience on the 1mm advance next.
if you are spinning counter clockwise you want the fire mark to line up with the left line on the stator. Some of the rotors are miss marked so you may need to double check with a timing light.
@@Corn-ped Yep, our rotor was from the bad batch, so the timing was 90° off. Now the motor is running fine. I found this bulletin on the HPI web page www.hpi.be/downloads/wrong_rotor_batch_en.pdf
@@tipidwl7520 oh man! Yeah thats why you need a timing light to verify
do you need to add extra cooling because it gets warmer? or can i just place the carter back?
Do you mean put the cover back on? I do not run a cover to keep it cool. If I ran a cover I would drill some homes in it to get air flow over the HPI.
If it's running hot, which way should you spin the stator plate?
on a puch e50 you would rotate the stator clockwise to retard the timing and cool it off.
What are the advantages and disadvantages of a rotor (hpi) compared to points
Less maintenance, 12v, ignition curve, better low end and starting, and higher rpms.
I think my a55 rotates the other way, and I am using the mark on the left. But it's a moot point anyway, because when I try to tighten down the nut, the magneto moves. I was able to compensate and get it close, but who knows how many degrees it's off by.
EDIT: I rotated the entire assembly so it hits the piston stop in the proper direction to tighten without moving. Duh.
If you set the flywheel on the crank and tap it with a robber mallet you can set it. Also make sure the tapers on the crank and flywheel are matted. I have used lapping compound to make them perfect.
A Tomos owner I need your help lol
And how do I mount and connect it on a Tomos a35? Mine had originally a pick-up ignition.
The same way as shown in the video
Hey! I have a rito crank section with cross wedges. is it okay to drive without this as the flywheel is cone-shaped and no keyways. sorry for the bad translation hope you understand what i mean! thanks for the great video
Yeah its fine. Just make sure you tighten it down.
Peuw Okay thank you ! One more wounder i have is, i have an puch monza/montana engine, is the "degree list" you have the se on all puch engine ? Or are the list same on maby all engine whit this hpi 2 ten system? 😁 tank you for answering ! Nice puch you have! i also have maxi 👌
Did you check with the light when you start the engine if your ignition is going more advanced than you want? Check it.
yes. I double check it and adjust it if I need to.
What should the spark plug be set to for a Gilardoni 74cc with this hpi? Mine doesn’t seem to like the .020 gap. Any suggestions?
between .016 and .020. What plug are you using? what spark plug boot? and you are using an HPI CDI?
@@Corn-ped thanks for the reply. It’s the same cdi hpi that is in your video. Right now the timing is 1.35mm BTDC. The boot is ngk resistor (LZFH). The spark plug is NGK BHS8. Has a Mikuni vm20 with 190 main jet and i am 1 up on the needle. Idle seems fine with the 17.5. Exhaust is the mlm blk100. She seems to be misfiring?, popping throughout the rpm range. Acceleration is terrible and just doesn’t sound right.
Do you have to usually change the jetting on your carburetor after you install this because I’m having a problem where I cannot get the right airflow to gas flow ratio, but before I install this everything was running fine with my carburetor and I had the old points.
No. Typically you do not need to change jet size. Are you sure you have the timing set correctly?
@@Corn-ped I’ll check it again i also seen they have a weight to add to the flywheel that might help.
So I have been having overheating issues and suspected timing. I moved the base plate ever so slightly in the opposite direction from the flywheel and I still get the same power and same overheating. Moved it a little more, same power, same heat. Moved it a lot more, still same/same.
So I moves it in the other direction (same as crank) and it loses power and cools off a little. Thoughts?
Have you tried upjetting? Normally I would say back off the timing, but I dont want you to loose power. And you shouldnt have to loose power.
@@Corn-ped I have messed with jetting but had worse performance.
can you please explain how i install the cdi. i’ve connected all the cables in the guide but i’m confused on how i’m gonna turn the engine off without the kill switch, because doesn’t that mean u can turn the engine on and off whenever without needing a key ??
wire a kill switch to the exterior coil and when you ground it out it will kill the engine. I made a video about doing it. Its pretty simple.
ua-cam.com/video/fZKgxDykdGs/v-deo.html
How is your stator able to rotate? Isn't it jammed onto the crank?
Its not attached to the crank. It is attached to the engine cases. But the bold holes are slots so it can rotate
-hi thanj you for the top video. Could you help me to find where to buy the tool to adjust the TDC? thank you
There is a nice one sold by Treatland.tv www.treatland.tv/buzzetti-micrometer-p/buzzetti-ignition-micrometer.htm
@@Corn-ped Thank you for the link. Could you please confirm if a 12Volts regulator is need and mandatory? My moped don´t have bat or regulator or other electronics. Is very easy wiring (3 wires one of them (yellow goes to the lights and horn circuit) the others two i believe one is for the coil and the other maybe grounf but not sure). How i must conect the yelow wire that is ont the Kit? Thank You
What stops the timing from slipping if there isn't a woodrif key?
The crank is tapered so the flywheels locks to the taper when you tighten the nut.
hello I mounted the same ignition as you but on a 300ktm 2T but no sparks, well wedged, and everything tested up to the high voltage coil everything works but the current does not come out of the coil which is new too, my masses are good do you have an idea to enlighten me? thank you in advance
hmm. you have power to the coil but not after the coil? Sounds like it could be bad, do you have a spare to test?
Yes I tested the coil with a battery and the spark works very well but once reassembled I have nothing, and no I have no other coil and I do not know if I can go up. other coil model on this ignition
I haven't been able to find much info on the forums so I've come here to ask: What is the correct voltage for bulbs when running an adjustable AC voltage regulator like the one trail tech makes? That may sound open-ended, which it kinda is, but I've been getting really dim lights. At first I thought my bulb wattage rating was too high and got lower watt bulbs, same problem as before. I'm thinking it's my voltage. I'd like to get a good voltage that will keep the bulbs running a long time but also shine bright enough in the dead of night. Didn't adjust my (trail tech) regulator yet, should be 13.8 VAC as shipped. Any thoughts? Went from 12v 21w to 12v 18 w to 6v 14 w. The 6v was very erratic, probably not ideal but just needed something that would get me home.
What ignition do you have? That will decide your voltage. Either 6v or 12v. Then find out how many watts it puts out. That will determine the light bulb wattage.
@@Corn-ped It is the HPI they sell on treats for the E50/ZA50. Says it has 60w coil for lights. I don't see where 12v is stated on its sale page but I do have a 12v regulator running. Would you mind sharing what bulb you like to run on your setup?
Ok so you have 60 watts at 12v. I would run all LED. They use less power. I can give you some ideas. Email me a photo of your biike. Is it stock wiring? Stock lights?
does the flywheelcover still fit over the ignition on a e50 engine?
yes it does. But I would add some vent holes. These get hot and if they get too hot they have issues. I run mine without a cover and have never had any issues.
so there is an insicion in the crank for the key but you just leave it empty when using this hpi?
Yea exactly
i have stator and CDI on my husaberg 2003 model but i cand fine the corekt spot to start it with kick start
are you trying to time the ignition or kick start the engine? if you are trying to time it, find top dead center first and then rotate the crank 2 degrees BTDC and stick the roto on.
@@Corn-ped Hi,its kick started i have try i need to make the advance probably,,,,,,,,ua-cam.com/video/hB-puD0A2eY/v-deo.html,,,,,,,,,,i have mark 5mm back the TDC but need to find the stator corect spot on my ICU10 CDI was starting with 3th kick
*Gets ready to set timing*... which line is it again?... back to youtube
Haha. I go back and watch my Own video when I set timing.
Can I use this ignition for my Puch MV50?
hpi.be has a list of applications. I dont see an MV50, I do see an M50 though.
And where did you get that air shroud ??
Its from a puch macho!
Where are you mounting that cdi box?
I have it mounted on the other side. I didnt show it in the video but its just mounted with the ignition coil.
#6
I have the treats adventure pack and I don’t think it came with marks like this to line up, how can I time my cdi
You don't need marks. You can make your own. Find TDC and make a mark. Then rotate your crank to the timing you want and make another mark. That's where you want it to fire
@@Corn-ped thanks for the response, so I adjust my stator or my flywheel to change the timing? And how do I know I’m adjusting it correctly if there’s no marks to tell me when it sparks. Other than the ones I made.
@@JackWalked you have to check it with a timing light.
Does anyone happen to know if this kit fits on Minarelli V1s?
It will fit but you need a spacer. Graham "moped factory" is making them right now.
Where would u mount the electronics on a magnum? Can u send pics?
I dont have a good photo, but most people put it in the upper side cover.
Now for the real question. what's up with the sick plastics
Which why dose a tomos a35 spin i don't know what an e50 and a za50 mean?
A tomos spins counter clockwise. So this information would be backwards for a tomos.
Ya I'm putting this system on hobbit with the stater on the other side I'm kinda confused about it
I actually think the hobbit spins the same direction so the instructions are the same. What part is confusing. I can try to help ya.
My hpi mini fires after the mark ( after tdc) every time I time it I line up the line’s perfect and it still fires 10° after
Yeah some times they dont fire at the mark. you need to set the piston where you want it to fire and then install the flywheel where it fires.
@@Corn-ped THANK YOU ! Thought I was going crazy I will just make a mark where it fires . Any other possibility for that outcome or just defective ?
@@laneadams8998 I think they just machine them wrong. I have had them wrong and I just timed them with a timing light and they worked great.
Definitely worked 100% better 🙌🏽 also what springs for a two shoe clutch on this setup (I have a Mlm brace available) Appreciate you sharing all your moped wisdom !
I use kickstart springs from treatland.tv. I also lighten my shoes to about 60-65 grams each.
What hpi is that I want one for my puch.
It is the puch/tomos/derbi HPI from Treatland.tv tinyurl.com/yzxe3p5b
where’d you get that timing tool at?
Treatland.tv they have a whole bunch of cool ones
@@Corn-ped not seeing this one specifically. what’s it listed as?
@@basillane1130 hmm yeah it looks like they don't sell this one anymore. I bought it maybe ten years ago. If I was buying it again I would upgrade to the buzzetti (it's more accurate).
It looks like interesting ignition but with 45-50watts is almost useless for road use motocycle. Headlight,blinkers, stop light. At least 85W required
Most people are using these on dirt bikes for mopeds that don't have blinkers for much electrical draw.
@@Corn-pedHpi sells racing-type ignitions without light coils. If someone buys an ignition with light coils, I believe they wanted lights.thats my opinion.
@@Endrjo I use them on mopeds that have a headlight and a brake/running light and they work great. If you converted to LED I am sure you could have blinkers and other stuff.
@@Corn-ped thanks! Just thinking if its worth to buy for my aircooled old Yamaha rd250. Points ignition is still making problems and loses spark on one cylinder.
Does this differ on an a55?
Hey yeah its the opposite. It spins the other way.
What puch model is that? I have never seen that front cabletray
It is a Puch Maxi N, but that guard is from a Puch MACHO. I had to get it from Europe.
Aah ok, i got a Puch P1/Z-Two and I am looking for a new front guard, do u know any different puch model front guard that will fit on my P1/Z-Two?
@@Khapaleno That looks just like a Puch Maxi. Is that right?
@@Corn-ped It looks like it yes, i think the only difference on the frame are the 2 little metal pieces that stick out on the side to attach the side panels
@@Khapaleno I think this one would work www.treatland.tv/puch-maxi-cable-cover-p/puch-maxi-cable-cover-black.htm
Where do i get that fairing!
@@Corn-ped struggling to find the part do you know what they called it? Im in uk so maybe its worded diffrently here
@@Corn-ped must have been a one off i cany find anything remotely like it
well the woodruff key serves a purpose doesnt it?
on most ignitions with a woodruff key, it just keeps your timing correct. But its the taper of the crank and flywheel that actually hold the flywheel on the crank. So you dont need a woodruff key if you know how to set the timing manually.
can you explain how to integrate the battery to the wiring? thank you.
I would second that
Yeah. I can do a video about that. You need to include a rectifier and regulator.
I’m confused with my regulator rectifier because it has two AC inputs and this particular HPI system only has the one 12v AC input 🥴
@@Corn-ped I have the rec/reg all in one device.
Then just connect a battery and you'll have to rewire the lights so you are not using the frame as a ground. Wire the lights back to the battery with a switch.
Wtf are the lil lines on the side on the stator etched into the aluminum?
Maybe so they dont rub off?
@@Corn-ped but what do they mean? Mms btdc
@@davidmaisonette6022 Before Top Dead Center.
So that's anytime the flywheel is before the piston gets to the top, (advanced.
and that engine scoop is RAD
Thank you!
What year is that Maxi?
I think it was a 78
What is that black piece that runs up the tank and around the cylinder and head?
@@WhereisBeeain it is a shroud from a puch macho
I appreciate you 💚
Thank you!
At this point do I even need to say it? Would you like to come to my church and give a lesson on this? You seem like you would get along with my youth leader.
@@Corn-ped free this weekend? 505 wWabasha st N st Paul. You're close ish.
@Paulo Sotto Mayor Maize gave a great semon. Wed have him back any day!
You are wrong, please read the instructions. The chart on the back shows the curve. Hint, the starting point is on the chart. Remember this is made in europe.
What part is wrong?
I can’t time my puch with the hpi 🤬
What's the issue?
I’ve tried setting it 1-4mm btdc and nothing and when I look at the spark it looks weak how do I use the timing light to make sure the marks meet?
@@natemay1828 are you using a resistor boot and a resistor plug? Just do one.
Hook up the timing light to a battery and clamp the other end around your spark plug wire. now run the engine if it runs, and shine the light at your flywheel to see where the mark is when the light flashes.
If you engine does not run youll need to spin the engine with a drill, do it with the spark plug out, but it has to be in the boot and grounded to the engine for spark. if you spin the engine with the spark plug not grounded you will hurt your CDI box.