By Banning Lithography to China, What Cost is the Netherlands Paying?
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- #tradewar #chinatechnology #techwar #tsmc #china #huawei
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Strange that the US seemingly sold technologies to Holland but still wants to control how Holland uses it. It's like you buy a car and a company wants to control where you travel in this car
Weird you should make that analogy. Isn't that where the automotive industry is headed - subscriptions for features? IOW, controlling how you use your car?
@@krejados1 In the past countries also tried to hide secrets of production. For example China tried to hide secret of producing silk and porcelain which were two main things China exported,
Thats fucked up
UX is supplying the critical Excimer Light Source to ASML. The rest are not UX e g. Zeiss mirror lens is from Germany. Now it has moved to China.
To be fair, the US already does his with the military aircraft they sell. US fighters have software locks so they can't be used certain ways.
I don't think Europeans are brave enough to stand up against Americans.
It's not about being brave it's about being coerced.
Germany entered recession last year because they couldn't stand up to the Americans. I guess that's what happens to occupied countries.
Eu are American colonies for about 30 years and its so oblivious, some countries have zero to 2000 soldiers, and they host USA bases containing excess of 70,000 personals.
True purpose of NATO 😂
The more prohibition snd sanctions they pose, the stronger China innovation advancement may become in near future. It's only matter of time and determination, which are something China and Chinese ppl never lack of.
banning asml lithography to china is a blessing, this will make china stronger
Wny do Chinese women seek Western man? FREEDOM, something the cowardly slaves cant offer😂
“If we are deprived of the Chinese market, we don’t have a contingency for that. There is no other China, there is only one China,” Huang said, adding that there would be “enormous damage to American companies” if they were unable to trade with Beijing. - Chip wars with China risk ‘enormous damage’ to US tech, says Nvidia chief, Financial Times, May 24 2023
ASML had stated to the Dutch government that they did not agree with the export ban of their lithographic machines to China. The disagreement was quite firm, ASML did continue the export to China. However, as stated in the video: some raw materials and some components in the ASML machines originate in the US. The export of those components and raw materials from the US to the Netherlands have been put on hold by the Biden administration. This has lead to a partial production stop at ASLM, also for machines meant for other markets than the Chinese one.
Dutch government is sovereign nation, it shouldn't be bully by any country for what's good for Holland. trade makes profits
I guess if they did not learn from their lessons from the past, they will never.
Example.
Google which cut off their Google OS is now regretting. They has now been replaced by Harmony OS in Chinq.
It is irreversible as Harmony OS is the next generation OS.
NVIDIA AI chips in China is now fast being replaced by Huawei 910B Ascend AI chips.
The competition inside China chip industry is very fierce. Soon U X and the West will be left way behind. Apple iPhone and even Tesla are forced to reduce their prices in order to compete. US chips companies have huge inventories due to lack of orders. 🤔
Yeah, it always amazes me that Americans think that cutting China out will somehow prevent them from advancing. China self-developed their own nukes, High Speed Rail, and Space Station, yet America thinks they can stop the country with the most STEM graduates from advancing in tech.
how much Netherlands are losing profits by banning Lithography to China?? does Netherlands companies gets any money from USA because of ban??
Just like the Nordstream pipe, who pays for the damages and who benefits replacing them.
ASML is going to lose revenue, share and profits. Same as Nvidia and TSMC, along with most foreign sellers like Boeing and Hyundai. As China moves up the technology pyramid, there are fewer and fewer foreign things that China needs, much less at inflated Western prices.
@@ZweiZwolfyou don’t say chinmikikua. First of all China steals and copies everything. In a few years those machines were not gonna be needed by China anyways. But here’s where you gotta put attention chanmikikua, Huawei 5g seems more advanced and Cheaper than anybody else’s yet they can’t sell to anybody outside of China. Africa and most under developed countries can’t afford it. The west and Japan won’t buy it. So you see even if China has a more advanced technology and cheaper, it will have problems selling it because people don’t like you nor trust you and this will be the norm for many years, chinmikikua.
@@ZweiZwolf you are correct, Korean tech. lost it's revenues. also, during Trump regime, USA farmers and many companies lost huge revenues with trade war with China. Trump had to bail out big companies and farmers. as now, China is producing 5nm chips... I am Korean, but it has to give credits to China, for standing up to declining power
@TH-dr1kg you are correct, China don't cares about Netherlands losing profits, all because it wouldn't trade with China. during Trump regime, USA lost profits in trade war with China. US govt. have to bailout big companies and farmers
Excellent analysis.
Another important point is that the western companies who are prohibited from selling their products to China will not have enough revenue for advanced R&D to create the next generation of products. Meanwhile China is rapidly developing replacement high technology and manufacturing technologies to develop and produce their own products. Consequently China will be buying less and less from foreign companies and China will be producing more and more homegrown products.
And sell them back to those countries
@x7j4
Very good point.
How much of the profit that these Westren technology companies received from trade, labor and materials from China went into the development of their various technological innovations?
I'm willing to bet quite a bit over the years.
They'll gradually lose their edge against their Chinese competition who still have access to all of this over the coming decade or so probably.
When you sanction the buyer, you're also indirectly sanctioning the seller 💡
Indeed, ASML was furious about being coerced into the trading sanctions. ASML lost hundred and hundred of million dollars due to the trade stop with the PRC.
China is the biggest importer of chips. They are slowly becoming self sufficient. Western chips are being replaced by local ones. See in 10 years time how US chip makers are struggling. Same pattern we see in many other fields.
Always the hater.
China went from no chip making ability and foundries 5 years ago to being at par with the rest of the world and only behind Taiwan in the latest chips
While these days projected to take over the legacy chip market in the future.
That just narrow minded thinking China is behind in semiconductors let's hope they can't innovate. When they lead the world in 37 of 44 critical technologies of the future.
The smart thing to do would have been to lower prices even more and dump chips onto the Chinese market
This is really about if the Chinese can produce those lithography machines when there is a full decoupling or in a time of war.
The Chinese no doubt have got them reversed egineered. Probably won't bring out their copycats unless there is a full decoupling or a war. When nothing can be done about those copycat technologies
Which I suspect the other countries would do the same in the 37 out of 44 critical technologies of the future that the Chinese lead in
If China was not smart enough and started a trade war with other countries after sending their people and companies over to these countries handing over their IP. For cheap labour and market access
@@TH-dr1kggood joke huh😂 losing export without financial compensation.
Go China go.
Bravo China.
Well said.
The Netherlands and the EU chose the wrong side of history.
Well, maybe not history but certainly the economy.
ASML was coerced by the US to comply because the US stopped delivery of critical raw material and sub parts to them.
@@TH-dr1kg Germany economy in 2023 is - 0.1% and France is 0.4%. China was 5.2%. Reported by IMF. Try studying more before you pull crap from your arse.
@@TH-dr1kg😂 You are not the brightest tool 🤡. EU is on the verge of recession due to inflation and following U$ foreign policy. China is doing fine. Too bad you are clueless
@@TH-dr1kgMan! Must suk being you, having the Middle Kingdom taking up real estate in your head. Who said anything about China? 😂
U$A go as far as ....
The fire occurred at a production site in Berlin, Germany, on January 3, and was extinguished during the night. No injuries were reported. The factory in question manufactures components including wafer tables, clamps, reticle chucks, and mirror blocks for ASML's lithography products.11 Jan 2022
Russia makes EUV lasers since 2011, and has non-industrial 7nm lithographers. All it takes to make 7nm industrial lithographers without ASML is a bit of investment.
Huawei has 2 research centers in Russia.
It's not that hard to connect the dots.
So that's where Huawei's 7nm chip came from
If those chips company need someone to blame, uncle sam is the only name on the list 😂
The laser light source for ASML's EUV lithography machines come from an American company called Cymer. Therefore, that gives the neocon vermin in Washington long-arm jurisdiction over ASML. The US also controls the Netherlands and the EU through NATO as well, but that's a whole other topic.
My hope is that companies will remove US-made parts in their supply chain or at the very least have non-American alternatives so they can get their necks out from under Washington's boots.
China will soon replace all foreign tech with domestic tech, so it's actually better in the long run. I'd much prefer the money circulating within China than to unfriendly foreign nations.
Another lessons learned for the EU people!
China is already de-risking by decoupling from Western, esp. American tech. You can see this in the latest Huawei phone, every component was sourced domestically from within China. Other Chinese OEMs are doing the same, moving to sanction-proof domestic parts and tools. The US made it too risky for China to buy American tech.
Who's your Daddy, Netherlands?
Mommy Nuland...
It was more cost-effective for China to purchase reliable Western chips, benefiting both sides. China spends more on chip imports than on oil. With US sanctions, China is forced to develop its domestic supply chain. When self-sufficient, China can provide the world with more affordable chips, while the West and its allies lose access to both the Chinese and global markets.
The US is developing its own supply chain, but without access to a large market, it cannot be competitive. The US is sparing no effort in its Tonya Harding competition strategy. The Chinese are very grateful to the US for pushing them towards self-sufficiency. Thanks to the US, China now has its own GPS system and space program. More sanctions, please.
Within 8 years, Chinese chip makers will reach 5nm stage, just a matter of time.
The HiSilicon Kirin 9000s in the Huawei Mate 60 released last year is a 5nm chip built on "7nm" process technology by SMIC. This year, expect to see SMIC produce a lot more 5nm chips. 3nm is the next hurdle for China, and they'll probably be there by 2026.
ASML usually come up with stories like, their production capacity make it so, that if they don't produce these equipment, the capacity that comes available would be producing other stuff that would sell for the same profit anyway. Still I find it absurd for our dutch government to go along with doing what the maffia-empire of the USA ask them to do.
Consider it as protection money.
Don't worry, the strategic team at ASML will not make the same mistakes again.
U$A go as far as ....
The fire occurred at a production site in Berlin, Germany, on January 3, and was extinguished during the night. No injuries were reported. The factory in question manufactures components including wafer tables, clamps, reticle chucks, and mirror blocks for ASML's lithography products.11 Jan 2022
@@happymelon7129another nord stream story
America calls it "Liberation" instead of "Invasion". That was what US call it in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia and the list goes on... Why the double standard? Confused... Please enlighten. Genuine question...
Instances of the United States "liberated" or overthrowing, or attempting to overthrow, a foreign government since the Second World War. (* indicates successful ouster of a government)
China 1949 to early 1960s
Albania 1949-53
East Germany 1950s
Iran 1953 *
Guatemala 1954 *
Costa Rica mid-1950s
Syria 1956-7
Egypt 1957
Indonesia 1957-8
British Guiana 1953-64 *
Iraq 1963 *
North Vietnam 1945-73
Cambodia 1955-70 *
Laos 1958 *, 1959 *, 1960 *
Ecuador 1960-63 *
Congo 1960 *
France 1965
Brazil 1962-64 *
Dominican Republic 1963 *
Cuba 1959 to present
Bolivia 1964 *
Indonesia 1965 *
Ghana 1966 *
Chile 1964-73 *
Greece 1967 *
Costa Rica 1970-71
Bolivia 1971 *
Australia 1973-75 *
Angola 1975, 1980s
Zaire 1975
Portugal 1974-76 *
Jamaica 1976-80 *
Seychelles 1979-81
Chad 1981-82 *
Grenada 1983 *
South Yemen 1982-84
Suriname 1982-84
Fiji 1987 *
Libya 1980s
Nicaragua 1981-90 *
Panama 1989 *
Bulgaria 1990 *
Albania 1991 *
Iraq 1991
Afghanistan 1980s *
Somalia 1993
Yugoslavia 1999-2000 *
Ecuador 2000 *
Afghanistan 2001 *
Venezuela 2002 *
Iraq 2003 *
Haiti 2004 *
Somalia 2007 to present
Honduras 2009 *
Libya 2011 *
Syria 2012
Ukraine 2014 *
2014 - 2022 - 9 countries yet to verify.
Pakistan 2022 *
Haiti 2022 *
Niger 2023
China can do 7nm with what they have already, and they are developing smaller technology with totally different semiconductor materials, probably taking over entirely in 10 years.
what they have already is also from ASML
@@alexandervt641 there will be difficult times ahead, but likely this gets them through the next couple of years, and given the million students of math and physics, development can be exponential.
they work on AI, quantum computing, and Gallium semiconductors for logic devices.
I have seen how diligent young programmers are, in doing signal processing math.
just saying, these embargo politics will go wrong, and remind me of Germany 1935 or so.
They've been banned before, so the Chinese innovate. Likewise with this new ban, the Chinese will also innovate. Probably faster since the measure for total independence in technology likely already taken place since the first time they were sanctioned. @@alexandervt641
Long as U.S Dollar is being used for global trade an Reserve dollar U.S will always use economic sanctions on other countries an corporations
One reason the rest of the world is shifting away from the US dollar. Gold is much better to have. But it won't be long before new methods of chip production come in. Goodbye US.
You said it. Thank God it's coming to an end.
thank you
Lithography of chinese type is beautiful, Itanium 3 stamp with these tecnology has performance that outperform Katmai aircooled by 28%. The name is "Chinese 1", out on ten wafer, about 6000 processor.
I am quite disappointed to Netherlands, they are a sovereignty country, why they have to listen to big boss US and have no self determination. It is Netherlands business. They worry they may be sanctioned too? We should not support imperialism.
He has a point.
More sanctions plsss!!!
when I think of Europe these days, the term "Banana republics" comes to mind.
The West won't be capable of maintaining the same rate of technological advancement over China as it rather easily could in the past due to Moore's law.
So what will happen is the Chinese will produce more and more chips with similar specifications and quality to the most modern and recent generation offerings from the West for probably less cost I assume, especially if anything significant happens in the Taiwanese economy to adversely affect semiconductor production or make it increasingly expensive.
🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳❤️❤️❤️
👍👍👍
It is only a temporary setback for the Chinese companies. In fact such actions is pushing Chinese to develop and build own machines & chips. As such, they will attract more talents and will develop an even more sophisticated machines. That is a saying - You can’t block other’s progression but only can improve & better own self.
I'm confused. Many Chinese UA-cam video producers said ASML sells its DUV to China, with the support of the Netherlands government, against the U.S. order. Here it's said ASML stops providing all its lithography machines to China. Who tells the truth?
He said asml lower their spec to pass the US sanction isn't he?
Lithographic printing machine is nice to have to print chemical resist images on a silicon wafer prior to a chemical etching process. Likewise to a HP printer is nice to have at home or office. Theses printers are not required at home to obtain a hard copy. Just send the printer shop a copy of your image and pay for the printing service. In this case, employ ASML for the printing services. Send them the blanks and images, they can return with the printed wafer. If there is any associated intermediate etching process it can be outsourced or cycled through China. it is not a straightforward process but the three parties US, ADML and China may get what they wanted.
Import substitution is 'Tag, you're it' on an extremely massive scale.
shame on US
The Netherlands is facilitating, I thought I read, 4 trillion of tax dodging capital flow from I expect mostly the other EU members, no person abroad needs to pity our economic plight. We have a government which still puts up a show as to still be listening to its citizens, and a certain segment may even like liberalism, but a huge part of the citizens do not appreciate being just tax payers instead of being citizens and feel something is off. I'm from 1974, and saw in my youth how rule based liberalism was let loose on my father's, a general practitioner, practice. Economists at insurance companies made rule-books to follow, dictating in which order someone should be treated. Now I do not like the man, but I seeing somebody who studied in order to develop knowledge and judgement, losing enthusiasm because his job is being reduced to following a playbook, that is well a shame really. And no doubt this has happened all over in our society in many functions, all to improve efficiency, but no-one can or even could calculate the cost's of it in terms of loss of spirit among the populous..
China us taking a good step
In coming 10 years young population growth will be the main issue for china
China should not underestimate this issue like Japan south Korea
Don’t worry, China population is huge. They have enough young and talented people. Their production is all moving towards automation and Ai. It is a challenge but it is not a crisis.
Amen
Instead of the cost, I would like to know what is the benefit they can get.
Дедушка дело говорит.
Trading stroner than nations.
❤❤❤
👍👍🇨🇳✌️✌️✌️
The dollar is why the US can impose this absurdity. The manufacuring and education fundamentals of US are bad. So these moves are not a silver bullet
Boss doesn't want him to play with you, waz to complain 😅😅😅
In the future, U.S.A and other european ethnic majority countries will not export anything because they are afraid that other countries will still their technology. 🤣
All Huawei fans are far ahead in the news. Your news outdated!
China national anthem
Maybe anything for love!😂
- и шта онда
- и да су продали када све оде у украјину
Show us your own Lithography machines & then talk. US$ is widely honored everywhere. CNY not yet.
This is just. a load propoganda baloney....
ASML are furious about the hundreds and hundreds of millions USD in missed revenue, which is normal every company will be if their trade is sabotaged and blocked.
You can fact check this with ASML’s public announcement. Their are in panic. They even threaten to relocate their business France.
COST??? OH JUST THEIR NUTS.