I’ve started waiting for a full round of combat before doing any narration and my players are loving it. Basically during the round of turns, it’s just I move here, slash this guy, do x damage, etc. Once we get to the top of the round I look at the notes I’ve taken during the round, and describe the round happening simultaneously. It really helps reinforce the fact that a round is only 6 seconds and all these things are happening simultaneously. It’s made combat go much faster as well and has turned combat from a narrative slog to an exciting and dramatic event. I highly recommend DMs give this a shot.
Ive used this method as well. Makes for unique "teaming" descriptions (Anna jumps over the tavern table and strumbles to the floor as Gareth was about to wrap around the table he noticed his friend in need and jumps the table flying over here shield in hand to block the incoming attack and take hold of the foe after punching him in the face while she takes this moment to stand up and plunge her word deep in to his belly felling him instantly) In reality turn wise Annas turn was first and she ate it over the table in and flops at the enemies feet just to stands up and stab him. Enemy goes next but misses despite her laying on the floor while he looked at her and then Gareth comes in and finishes the enemy. But for one of my groups I just cant use it because they move too slowly. Works Very WELL for groups that can keep it quick. This may also not work for groups that really want to describe their own actions. I quickly let them describe the mechanics and then I tell the story. I still run and LOVE grid combat but IMO being well versed in TOM gives more versatility and speed to certain encounters. Is it just part of the story like a brawl in this tavern that may have never happened and is more about the story than the crunchyness of numbers or is this a fight that is a culmination of tracking down the right hand of BBEG for several sessions. Its also nice to not feel like you need a map for everything, helps on prep time.
@@timelessadventurer He did mention that he higly recommends DMs give this a shot, which implies, that he doesn't seem to mind if people use his idea :P
I've never liked dealing with theater of the mind combat as a player. Even if the DM is willing to be a bit loose with spacing, the fact that the players have to be constantly asking for information about where things are slows things down and makes it harder to plan things in advance. With a grid, I can see the spacing at all times and can plan my turn quietly while other players are going. Without a grid, I can't effectively plan until I'm able to get information from the DM about what things are in range. Even with the example in the video about the cone hitting 2 enemies, or maybe 3 with the risk of hitting an ally, the problem is that I don't get those options until my turn begins and I can ask the DM what possibilities exist. Not being able to plan your turn until your turn begins bogs everything down.
Different people have different levels of spatial awareness, my groups never had a problem pre planning actions and keeping track of a battlefield without seeing it, but we've all played like that for many years before we played together.
Seems like it depends on the version you're playing and how deadset on following the rules you are. Personally I prefer a grid and the 3.5 ruleset but I can see the advice in this video working well for 5e players that aren't as engaged by the number crunch of earlier editions.
Theatre of the Mind combat equals a series of "wait, I thought I was" and "Hey, that's not what I meant" and "I (perform action that defies physics and spacetime)", at least at my table. Thus the grid and minis. I find minis speed up combat. Not every player imagines the same scene even with the same description. Clear communication, ease of comprehension of the information, and visual aides all work in the era of ADD/ADHD/intellectual divergence. Making the combat turns quick (reflecting the tension in combat) builds the immersion. Descriptions that are short, yet dramatic work. "The orc roars and LUNGES at you!". Keep everything short and punchy. I also stand when I DM, especially when it's combat. My speech becomes louder and quicker, I tend to point at players who are involved and who's next. I also call hit points "close enough" to give the "kill/defeat" to the right dramatic moment. Turns have a timer. Take too long and miss your turn, This reflects panicking and freezing in combat. It also teaches players to be ready. Make sure you have a clearly visual initiative system. When players see when their turn come up, they tend to pay attention. Roll dice openly (*). Want player engagement? Let them see the attack and damage rolls. (* except Stealth, Perception and other rolls where a player thinks they know the result when they really don't. Use an elevated tray where you see it and they don't. They still roll in the tray, but don't know the result) Thus I use TotM for everything but combat, then break out the minis for combat. These techniques can suffer with online gaming, so it's more important than ever to use clear descriptions using natural language. You may even want to do an intermission recap halfway through to help understanding.
@Mike Gould. You spewed facts. My TotM experience ends up being not nearly as good as I would like with systems that do offer precise distances for attacks and abilities. If I'm playing FATE that treats all distances as "areas" (so your ranged attack would have range 1-2 areas) then things are different, but once the system allows me for tactical thinking and planning going TotM for combat makes me try to rationalize the TotM scene into a grid, and that kills most of the enjoyment for me. However, I need to say that TotM makes it easier to balance (or unbalance) encounters, since the DM controls the complete flow of movement/range in the battle.
You could add spacing and attacks of opportunity into your recaps. "The Fighter has fallen to his knees, and the Ogre looks like he wants to finish him off. You think *you could make it on time* to renew his fighting spirit, but the hobgoblin has you *locked in combat* and moving could *leave you vulnerable* to his jagged sword." Including suggested actions like this could both prevent spacing questions if you know your player is likely to come to the Fighter's aid AND help guide/remind newer players to battle mechanics and what their PC can do in combat.
@@23matip When I'm running theater of the mind, I tend not to sweat the details of the dungeon. I narrate their course and path and present options to the players when it would impact the result of the game. Otherwise, I keep a map of the dungeon and use a token (or a penny) to mark their location with the dungeon for reference.
@@23matip maps are your friend for that. It's nice if you can prepare a system, where you can reveal parts of the map when needed, and I'll present few ideas for that later, but if you build proper GM-player relation and gaming culture, you can present the layout of the entire dungeon (with maybe hidden passages and stuff like that not marked) and still be fine. Even if your players metagame a bit, and either b-line for the boss room or avoid the boss room to fully explore the dungeon, it's all fine. If they are making such choices, that means they probably enjoy the game more this way, and analyzing their choices can help you make dungeons better suited for their tastes. Mind you, those maps are supposed to just give a general idea of the layout, and need not be very detailed. They are here to help you with narration, and to get better sense of dungeon layout and path taken. So now for the ideas for revealing new parts of the map: - the simplest of ways - just draw it when it's revealed - if it's just a rough sketch, it might be good enough and fast enough - magnetic board - from simple to fancy - use a board to which magnets stick as a mapholder, and cover the parts of the map that are supposed to be hidden with something and hold the cover with magnets. It can go from a piece of white paper, to fancy magnetic tiles that stick by themselves. Added benefit is possibility of using magnetic party position tracker, which is less prone to being knocked over. - same as above, but working with gravity and heavy objects to hold everything in place - easier to get for testing this system, but less practical in the long run. and now for something classic and amazing, but almost forgotten: - the mapkeeper / cartographer player - engage your players! - so instead of giving out the map, get your players to draw it themselves. Depending on your players, it may be their favorite thing or a nightmare scenario, so keep that in mind. How it works is basically you tell them what they see and feel, and it's their job to draw and mark it. It puts them in the role of dungeon explorers, and it gives a place for intersting map markers, like marking the path from which cold wind blew and such. One thing to note when using this system: don't make your dungeons cramped, leave some spaces between rooms and stuff like that, as the map drawn by players will always be slightly deformed, and you don't want to make it a common source of frustration, that the rooms don't fit, and they either have to redraw the map or make it hard to read. You might have noticed that I actually didn't answer your question on how to run theater of the mind dungeons, and that is because I believe that dungeons themselves don't have a place in pure theater of mind. At least not the big enclosed mazelike dungeons, that are iconic for the game genre. If you truly don't want any maps, then you have to design the entire dungeon for that. So let's just throw out everything we know from mapped dungeons, and start from scratch: instead of tracking anything, just prepare a series challenges that are played out, and just narrate everything else while skipping a lot. Basically aim for a book-like narration of the whole thing. Don't get bogged down by trivial things and just go for major decisions and challenges. Make some challenges and encounters forced and some hidden behind triggers. So for example, players have to confront golems in the corridor to get to the treasury, but they might avoid that gelatinous cube and giant spider nest if they decide to explore minimally and pass their survival tests. You can put some triggers on luck, some on decisions, and some on passing/failing skill checks, it's all up to you. When designing this way, your dungeon might be more akin to .xml file, than a map, and it's as it should be, it's just a skeleton that'll get fleshed out during play.
Back in the day, we had one player (usually the nerdy wizard) map out the dungeon on grid paper as the DM is narrating. It worked pretty well. It was assumed that the PC was doing this as well and sometimes (oops) the map gets lost or stolen.
Had to run an unexpected theater of the mind combat for 5e last Sunday. The players had chased after a failed assassin off the cliffs of the sword coast. They didn't stop there but literally jumped off the cliff after them. Wrestling underwater. It was amazing!
When my group was running low on players. I posted in several d&d discords. Cody's was by far the most responsive. I have 6 people reply within 24 hrs. Now my group is sufficient in numbers that we dont have to cancel bc not enough players showed up.
Huge fan of the "you don't know if your spell will hit your ally" point. I played through Pillars of Eternity with spell area previews turned off and it was one of the most engrossing combat roleplay experiences I've ever had.
We clearly don't do enough theater of the mind. The part about the hurling giant chasing the players made me think about a trick I come up with: moving encounter. The grid is moving instead of the player. I used it for a vehicle chase inspired by the movie Willow.
I'm not surprised that some are giving up gridded combat, there is a move away from any combat by the new wave of people looking to spend most of their time roleplaying. In some ways, I love that, but I'm sad that they don't realise that they can play strategically and enjoy combat too. I think that we do fully both, and that gridded combat lends itself to a little more strategy. Certainly, theatre of the mind will feel a little bit more like you drama class, and you might find that gridded combat is less immersive, but I value the stretching of my mind that comes with figuring out the best way to strategize and I think there's room for both.
@@Kidneyjoe42 It is, but a people join D&D because it's the most common system out there and there's the name recognition. Also, just because it was initially a combat game and most of the mechanics are combat orientated, doesn't mean it can't be a game that's used for primarily social adventures. How many other systems actually have mechanics for social interactions?
I recap turns and actions from the directly previous turns to creat a sense of everything happening at once. making sure Turn C has what happened in turn A and turn B in mind. Not only that, i believe narrating what has transpired so far helps the player take a faster, sometime more reactive decision
Excellent advice. These are the things I've been doing since 1977. I'd also high recommend trying games like Dungeon World and 13th Age. They will hone your TotM skills as they are designed with either abstraction for distances and areas(13th age) or are simply verbal description (DW). They get you out of the rules and into the fiction.
*Dungeon World* is great! (nothing against 13th Age either). My group has been playing *Monster of the Week* for almost a year now and we're loving that a lot too. Seeing as we play via Discord, their TotM game design has made it a lot less work while being tons of fun.
@@mandodelorian4668 If you like MotW, you should check out Blades in the Dark too. A bit crunchier and relies entirely on DM improvisation (though it gives you lots of tools for that) but you get great TotM encounters. One of the many reasons MotW is so good - last tie we played my wife was a flying were-velociraptor.
I really like theater of the mind when it's a small space or few enemies. Sometimes I just want to choose who I attack without concerning myself with range and movement. I dare say that any encounter where you can go from one end of the room to the other in a single movment action should be TofM
@@DigiMatt52 Yeah. You are right. In my shadowrun days we had a lot of them: "4 security guards burst into the labratory. What do you do?"..."Take cover, light`em up!" But most of the time a scetch of the labratory was on the white board anyway.
I personally like to set up maps for most fights and interactions, but do theater of the mind for silly/fun fights or dramatic fights that lets the players RP alot
You did a great job and I love the theater of the mind as it's just the Players, their character, and the GM and their story/ NPCs. Also, it's really easy to set up and teardown, costs just the rulebooks, Dice and pen and paper, and allows for more imagination and freedom that is the reason why I play Tabletop. Although it's to be noted some players are turned off or can't play because it's hard for them to keep track of everything and play at the same time.
Hi, all. I tend to use the mixed approach: T-O-T-M for small, random encounters and limited ranged/spell attacks; battlemat for more intense, major combat sessions, and for long-distance assault plans.
Same. Even in a TotM combat i usually draw little things with arrows showing how they're moving (it ends up looking like a sports game plan) It's funny cause i started this for myself and inevitably i end up with all the details and helping everyone else remember what's going on across the whole battlefield
For us it is situational. Going through a dungeon or traveling where encounters are expected? Grids and maps and such. If the combat is more spontaneous, say a tavern brawl or an argument that turns violent, ToTM.
I've done both grid and theatre of the mind, and for random encounters, I just do theatre of the mind. It's for planned encounters that certain details matter to myself and my players
As always great advice. My players tend to keep me on my toes, fight when I prepared intrigue, and talk when I have exciting combat prepared. Mixing in more TotM is going to be huge for making me feel like I was unprepared for something. I'm also using the "sticky of descriptors" starting today.
I'd never give up grid combat, I love all the little squares and minis and even the dumb arguments about if a character who is 6 foot is technically two cubes high or not
All the games I GM for are run theatre of the mind. I love it and it means I save time on trying to get maps, minis and tokens together for a game (digital or in-person). I just made sure everyone was on board with what Theatre of the Mind meant during session zero. What was expected of the players and the kind of language we would be using. When everyone buys into it, it's magic.
Honestly i think giving up gridded combat forever is 100% throwing out the baby with thr bathwater. It seems to me that there really are no benefits to TotM that cant be integrated into gridded combat with a descriptive enough DM, which you would need as a baseline for TotM anyway. Sure, you cant do the “close enough” but you can still think in rounds, do recaps, etc - just because theres a grid doesnt mean the wizard wasnt looking at his spells and got distracted and so on Personally, I’m with cody there at the end, gridded combat brings a certain level of gamey strategy to it; your DM should be able to take the narrative aspects and benefits of TotM and integrate that into gridded imo
TotM has much less prep work required, since the DM doesn't need to find a battle map or make one from scratch. I use this for simple combats, such as a few bandits on the side of the road. I see no need to pull up a map when the combat will probably only last one round. I make battle maps for more climactic encounters.
I think using more TotM aspects in gridded combat is generally good. I've played with a few DM's that everything has to be strict and perfect by the grid. I run my table with a grid for combat, but if players are trying to do something cool I'll slide on the side of the player if everything is close enough, even if by the grid they might miss. The grid is really just a guide so I don't have to tell people where things are constantly. Back in college it used to be just bottle caps on a table
@@SilentFlatulence You don't really need a battle map for every single encounter, tho. If your players are reasonable, they'll most likely be okay with a blank map with a grid, especially if it's a random encounter with a few bandits by the road.
@@SilentFlatulence DM prep is the same as teacher prep. Sure its front heavy, but eventually you have shit backlogged so much that its a really non-issue especially if youre using VTT which sounds to be the case based on your wording. If youre using a singular dry/wet erase laminated grid, it really doesnt take but a minute or two to draw a quick layout (river here, rocks here and there) and then use the rest as TotM.
@@BerlitzSama You're right, and by extension, they'll most likely be okay without a battle map for the odd encounter. Granted, I've actually talked to my players and know this directly, but I'd imagine many groups would take a similar opinion.
Im glad to hear someone talk about this topic because I have never played a game with combat on the grid. My group is 100% theatre of the mind combat and it works quite well. There are hiccups once in a while mostly because someone wasn't paying attention at an important moment, but on the whole with a DM that is comfortable and confident enough to do it, it's awesome and we are able to create some amazing scenes that you can't do on a board.
Once I became a "forever DM", I began to see everything from a designer/engineer mindset. Now whenever I run games or make mechanics, I think about how the most imaginative player would do with my creations, and how the least imaginative player would do. Grid based combat is generally more useful because most players aren't very imaginative in my experience, they need visual aid. "Theater of the mind" only works well for niche situations or minor combats that aren't really threatening.
This is my take. I've had all my players tell me they don't want to do Theater of the Mind for combat as they are visual players. Which is fine and I completely understand. I'll accommodate that as much as I can. However I might switch to theater of the of the mind in certain circumstances like a small encounter where I'm introducing a certain type of enemy they can easily dispatch and it might not make it past round 2, or the like where it'd take less time to just run it then it would to pull out the map. Or a situation like the giant tossing boulders at them while they try to run for cover... (which in reality would end up being more or less a skill challenge). There are some good reasons to run both types, and it really comes down to how the DM uses them. Sticking to one or the other just really limits what the game can really be, though.
As a new GM these tips feel pretty helpful even if I'm not running Theater of the Mind. I definitely need to work harder on adding more vantage points/points of interest in my maps.
One of the best sessions I had with my players was one that went completely off the beaten track within 30 minutes of the start of the game - I'd been meticulous about maps up until that point, it being my first campaign as a DM and wanting to be "prepared", but through the players' choices and my naïve curiosity we found ourselves in a situation were the party split and needed to find each other through rough, unexplored terrain. A few impromptu skill tests later (crossing a swamp for some, cliff climbing for others), the session culminated in a theatre of the mind random encounter with a very flustered mama bear and her cubs, right as the players found each other on the trail. I found it immensely freeing as a new DM to have my focus not tied to a board, but to the story, and it was a key turning point in the party's roleplaying relationship. The party is now at level 4, and a bit less squishy (I think they'd only just made second level at the time), and we've had a ton of awesome grid-orientated encounters since - but after watching this video I'm looking forward to a chance for them to make their way through the wilderness again, putting aside the map and seeing what stories we can discover with just our wits and imagination.
Get out there and try it! It has easily become my biggest hobby and I still find time to play even tho I'm out of school and in a very intensive career field. You will probably find it becoming a passion 😁
Thank you for mentioning body language. I feel like this gets missed a lot but, non verbals are key to reading how the players are feeling where the energy of the game is going. It’s harder online but body language is super important
Ever since discovering ultimate dungeon terrain (from Professor Dungeon Master aka DungeonCraft) I found it splits the difference very well. Its a nice middle ground especially if you enjoy the visualization of miniatures
I DM on a Wednesday and my wife does her Saturday session. I do completely old school Dragonlance. No maps unless I draw them myself and am very loose with spacing. I just find it easier. I can say yes or no to stuff while not disturbing the scene. However she is running Curse of Straad at the moment and struggling with it. Hopefully this video will help. Thank you dude.
Just picked up the ol’ school Dragonlance modules at a comic shop. What are you using for your campaign-is it completely homebrew? Do you involve the characters in the novels as NPCs?
@@apmartini70 I decided to run with a side story to the main dragonlance main theme. I made the choice very early on than my characters would occasionally bump into someone from the novels but I want that to happen as little as possible. They have had Kitiara chase them across the blood sea for a night. (This being before she was a Dragon Highlord as I set my campaign about a year before the main books). The have also met uncle trapspringer briefly and had an encounter with Astinus at the great library but I am trying to limit the interaction with the storyline to vague glimpses where possible.
Excellent video. I run both kinds of combat, gridded and theatre of the mind. What I use depends on the situation and the atmosphere I want to create for the encounter. The tips you give here I use for both. Expecially the tone. Ramping up the tone, recaping and creating a sense of urgency during combat helps tremendously in both instances. I had a big smile on my face during the whole video. Well done sir. edit: As far as the part where the PCs are running as giants throw boulders at them. I'd probably use a skill challenge of some kind for that. IMO you could really make it epic doing that.
After playing Mutants and Masterminds for a long time, then going back to D&D (skipped 4th) and starting to craft terrain etc... i LOVE grid. I make it a bit gamey in some ways, like levers and stuff that can be interacted with to change the encounter, but the players have become SO much more active.
An overview map (not drawn to fine scale helps firm up the scene you have describe) and then let the mind games begin. Recently had an invisible MU/T get cornered and trapped in the targets dining hall during dinner and was quite memorable. The character was nearly hyperventilating in fear when his door got closed. Great vid thanks.
I love this video . I’m playing on Saturday with a group that hasn’t met over 18 months . I have grid maps but also build terrain without grids. I’m using this information , this weekend, and using it with a grid map. Man I have to step up my game and I can’t wait !!!!!!!
Hey Cody, really cool video! It might be one of your best so far. 90% of the time I see "hints for better combat" on the internet, it's basically how to speed things up and get it over with so everyone can go back to having fun as soon as possible. I was very pleased to see concrete suggestions and solutions that focus on making combat actually *better*, instead of simply faster. Awesome work. Definitely stealing a few ideas for myself there. Cheers! :)
Usually I only do theater of the mind when I don't have much time to prepare for a session or if I'm just playing a quick one shot with my friends. It's kinda hard for me to keep a consistent image of the battlefield because of my shit recent memory retention, so if you have a similar problem I recommend having a loose grid(or just a gridless map) behind your DM screen just to situate yourself every once in a while. Taking quick notes about the characters' actions can also help.
I like grid maps so much that i map out entire city blocks and interesting locales on grids for my players too look around in and explore on roll20, because i feel like although i can describe the environment well, it always gives me a bit of pride and it gives the players a better idea of what's around them if they can see it, and it allows me to be very precise with what i want to happen and what the players want to do.
I like both types of combat. The first bigger campaign I ever played was a theatre of the mind campaign played entirely over voice chat with a dice roller and it was a lot of fun. I've found that in combat players pay a lot more attention if you are doing theatre of the mind, it forces them to. I have had players who in the past would zone out in combat if we were doing grid combat because they could just look down. But at the same time if everyone is engaged and paying attention then it is so much fun to use miniatures.
Love the tip about the sticky note! Gonna try it this weekend. I’ve been thinking of ways to improve combat narration, this came out at the right time!
I'm about to run the first session of a theatre of the mind campaign tomorrow! I thinkTotM is great practice for any DM who's an avid writer to flex their descriptive muscles. When the players don't have minis and maps to rely on, it's up to you to paint those pictures in people's heads!
what really opened my eyes to making combat interesting as a player and just-now-a-gm is Fate Core's emphasis of having aspects everyone can use in the combat. trying out different table top systems or variation really broadens your horizons
I only run Theater of The Mind. I've tried grid combat before, but the players started looking at the game like a chess board and playing it like if it was Warhammer, completely forgeting to think three dimensionaly and to fight creatively. It ruined the immersion and the roleplay, so I ditched the idea. As far as I'm aware, all of my player prefer the way I run combat over the way most grid users they've played with do, so I see this as an absolute win.
I've implemented tips #2 and #4 throughout my DMing career. I typically use theater of mind if the combat isn't a big narrative point, involves a small group of enemies the group have take on multiple times (i.e. basic goblins, orcs, kobolds), or when the combat isn't expected (i.e. my players made certain choices OR random encounters). I use gridded combat for finales, new enemy introductions, or if I get a unique combat situation (tip #1 example).
As a DM, I love D&D5e's rules being perfect for TotM, and it's the only way I DM. I usually describe each players actions in the environment at the end of their turn so everyone knows exactly what's going on. Though, I've found that PF2e's crunch is much more immersive for me as a player.
These are some awesome suggestions I hadn't really thought about, thank you. I just find it is rather difficult to run theatre-of-the-mind combat online. I started as a newer DM with a group of full newbies in roll20 recently and while we use the little cameras, it is really hard to get visual cues or see body language.
Thank you for making this video, its really helpful. I'm new to D&D and I've taken the task on to DM to a group of all newbie players. We are now on Session 7 and the few combats I ran I've really struggled to keep from the old ' you hit, what's the damage?' style. My players are still getting into the swing of what dice they need to roll for everything and I've found everything slows down and the excitement disappears along with the pacing. I am definitely going to use a few of these tips in my next session as my players are coming up against a Giant Boar and Owlbear.
I hybridize TotM and grid. I'm a writer, and have been for 20 years. My combats are narrative and descriptive, but still fast-paced, and involve 'close enough' but also tactics and strategy. (Not super heavy on those, of course, but enough.) One of my most recent encounters involved the party traveling through some wilderness, and at a small river crossing, they were ambushed by a large pack of ankhegs. The water and hilly terrain, combined with the grassland around them, as well as dealing with a horse-drawn wagon, and personal mounts made the whole thing interesting and memorable. Also acid ruins cloth very fast. Almost lost our sorceress because of a couple well placed acid sprays.
Your video is great and has some good ideas, that could totally work great at the right table, but IMO theatre of the mind combat only works if your players listen. I've tried it too many times because I hate drawing maps and had way too much, wait where was I what's happening. Even just a simple blank grid staves off so much confusion. I'm remembering the locations of 7 different guys, who goes next, the twist that's going to happen in round 3 and where the 4 traps are but ask a player to remember where they are in relation to other people and their minds just shut down.
Last week in our in-person game I was explaining where a PC was located in a skirmish, what threats were around her, and where her allies were. We were making eye contact the whole time. Then she says, "What? Sorry I wasn't listening". Few things can actually break me out of my flow while DMing but that moment...I just said, "I was talking *directly to you*...". So I've decided Theater of the Mind, something I've wanted to try since Ive been playing online with maps for years now, is definitely not for this group.
It's easier for you to keep track of where things are because you created the encounter. The whole thing was born from your imagination so your mental image of it is already clear and accurate. The players don't have that. They have to go from blank slate to knowing everything just from your descriptions alone. Even someone who has good spatial reasoning and is listening intently can misunderstand things simply because they can't read your mind and it's not possible for you to fully convey your mental image through words alone.
Great video Cody! I'm coming back to D&D after almost 30 years without playing (since 2nd edition and AD&D), and I almost didn't grasp what you were talking about in here. We didn't have miniatures back then, and it was ALL in our imaginations. And it was fun as hell! That being said, I'm sure I'd love to go into combat w a grid and some minis as well! It's definitely a one versus the other situation. Kudos again, see you on Discord!
I'm DM'ing tonight and I run a theatre of the mind game and I was really surprised that I do some of these already!! Definitely going to try start thinking in terms of rounds and maybe not recap as much.
I absolutely love gridded combat but there is incredible value in theatre of the mind combat, it can be incredibly engaging when done well. The Dragon of Icespire Peak (Divine Contention) campaign has an epic narrative combat scene that is one of the most memorable experiences I have ever had with my group.
I've only done TotM combat for the past 10 years of my 15 year Gaming career and it's been fine. What's most important is description. Thanks for the video promoting TotM :)
Tone is the main reason I prefer TotM for Raveloft style campaings. It feels like the tension of facing a horror monster vanishes if the players can just look at a grid. I guess it has to do with the grid making it a third person view of the action, while TotM makes it feel more like first person.
Since moving to a distance version of playing D&D, theater of the mind combat has become the go-to way to play for my groups. Not all players are tech savvy enough to utilize the different kinds of virtual maps, and frankly that's a lot of effort on my part as the DM. Especially for smaller/quicker combats, TotM makes the game flow smoother in real time and it's still a believable and enjoyable experience for everyone at the "table"
I like to mix, I will bring little tokens to give people an idea of where they are, but no grid and give round numbers to supplement the theater of the mind, and I like this as it makes things easier to think about
Fantastic video. Personally I'm all about free flow non gridded combat for all times expect for when I want to crunch numbers. Gridded combat feels more like a tactical game for me and I tend to treat it as such. But hey, it's all about that time with friends so being adaptive is key
We stopped using minis and gridded combat because it completely broke roleplay. Let me elaborate: it felt like when combat began, we stopped playing D&D and started playing a board game, where the rules of the game became more important than the storytelling of the DM. It became frustrating to the point where we sometimes avoided combat because we knew it would be another episode of arguing.
Playing theatre of the mind takes a lot of practice. One of the things I've found is to make sure combats have interesting narrative stakes. A fight with a mind flayer is one thing - rescuing an enemy combatant from a mind flayer who is trying to extract information from them is something else entirely. (That one didn't go so well.) Fighting a beholder is one thing -- trying to sabotage a cultist's ritual to become a beholder without being seen to be openly attacking them is way more interesting.
I like running TotM combat for smaller encounters like a lot of people have said. But our table has a 50” flatscreen on it for running digital maps for boss fights and important fights. And lately we have found Dynamic Dungeons on pattern and have been using his maps for those fights. And let me say they are a game changer. Since beautiful maps that are totally animated. They really seem to immerse my players. But again for some combats TotM is fine. I think breaking it up like that is great also. My players know when I’m firing up that TV it gonna be an epic fucking battle!!!
In our homebrew game we use a lot of grid and battle maps but our players LOVE the extra that minis, terrain, and scatter do for the battlefield Years ago all we had was a grid with markers and it got used for combat but it wasn’t always something we stuck to. A lot of times things would just get hand waved and it would devolve partially into theater if the mind. Then came the crafting and 3D printing bug and since then I LOVE setting up a scene and a map with terrain and bits and pieces. My brother is the DM and while he’s herding cats he lets me set up the physical scene based on his description of the room and trusts me to put in whatever things I feel will enhance the battlefield. This also sets a good scene for our actual play videos (shameless self promotion here) for Tales of Aneria here on UA-cam! Lately I’ve been getting more and more into wanting to set gridless scenes and just use some range measurement sticks for moving around the battlefield and casting spells
My table has never liked theater of the mind. Every time I start drifting into something like that they start asking "Can we get a map? Can we roll initiative yet?" haha Thankfully I love grid combat and really enjoy making interesting and tactical maps. Something else to also consider with theater of the mind is that not everyone is a visual thinker. I have a very vivid imagination and half the time when I am describing something I'm literally just describing the image in my head. No one else at my table has that level of visual thinking and so theater of the mind, having to picture what is being described, is much harder and not that fun for them.
On the other side, I'm very much a visual thinker and I hate theatre of the mind style combat. The few times I've played it, the problem is I just start making a gridded map in my head, but then all the actions of the players and monsters don't follow the map. So I get frustrated that the situation around me is unclear, and ask for a gridded map instead. I mean, I know it's in the book as an option, but to me moving to TotM combat is just one step further into playing something other than D&D, which is what I honestly feel a lot of people should do.
Im a huge fan of TotM over grid played combat. I have been playing since the 80s and there is a real disconnect from the game when you start bringing out the grid. Most of the time the players are more worried about where they are on the map then where they are in the game. There is a loss of creativity if you ask me. Currently I run a game on a VTT and most of the combat is done on a grid. I wont lie. Its getting old. It slows the game down and is very dull next to TotM. Players are constantly counting the grid distances over and over again. It feels like a totally different game, and it for the most part is. Do I hate it? No. But I feel the soul of role playing combat is lost. Now as a DM I will say that I feel TotM is far less work prep time. Setting up combat encounters for a grid can prove a real hassle when you cannot find a map that fits your vision. This can happen often. Also when the players go wondering off it is far more difficult to adjust the game when all of your encounters are ready to go in the location they skipped over. I tend to make sure I have some generic maps I can use ready to go. My next campaign will be TotM.
I totally agree with you. Lots of people on here are dissing on theater of the mind, but I feel like a lot of the magic is lost when you don't have to imagine the scene
THIS!!! I've also been playing since the earlymid 80's and the idea of gridded combat was something that never came up. We always used TotM. I've played gridded combat a few times in the 21st century, but it always feels like a chess game (with dice and fireballs) as opposed to an actual part of the story going on in the game. Maybe I'm just an old man and prefer the way things were 'back then'. Nope, wait, I'm not. I happen to effing LOVE 5e (a huge improvement on the ADnD 2e I used to play), everything except gridded combat :)
I tend to use them differently. If they're fighting a big bad, or a group of mobs, usually it's a grid. But then they've been part of a battle, there were armies, or they were defending a city and some were at the wall, others out on the field... and to get that scope onto a map just didn't seem feasible. So they were in combat, they were fighting soldiers and such, there were turns, but it was much more theater of the mind, and I was on point with that movement "How long will it take from the field to the wall?" "Two turns," but obviously it would take more than 12 seconds to get there by dashing, but that made it seem like distance, and still didn't take that long. I'm definitely not about to give up on grids, my players SEEM to like positioning, and figuring out movement, and getting to the edge of their spell casting distance, and hitting a point where they can hit creatures but the creature can't hit them. Plus, why did we learn to count by 5's in school, if not for this?
Some of my friends have trouble keeping track of eachothers actions even with the grid and miniatures and spell cards and combat logs and having a great DM describe things very well, so we have never tried TotM in our 15 yrs playing together...
Great tips. I think this is why 3rd ed had the ranges in short/medium/long with the foot measurement in parentheses next to that. Relatively few spells had the exact number as the only range listed. Similar thing with cover - the rules were obviously developed from a theatre of the mind standpoint with numbers slapped on top, rather than the later versions simplifying it to essentially a status effect. There was a lot of good design stuff in 3.0 that I think got tossed out with edition evolution, unfortunately.
I like to have a few planned fights with a grid and map. But I also LOVE to add a few ToM fights to keep everyone's brain in that creative space. So at my table, I will mix them up.
What I may be doing is a combo of both in my Dungeon Crawler Classics online. Dungeon Crawlers is already challenging enough with the monsters being insanely powerful (even when you're a Lvl 0 Peasant), and Spells are already more chaotic than DnD spells that the effects change as you become more powerful and you roll for the effect most cases that doing a grid would help people to remember where they're placed. However I may *embellish* the gridded map with Theater of the mind to kinda add to the experience and give them extra things to do. When I was doing pure theater of the mind with the Kids I Judged for (name for the "DM/GM" for DCC), it was okay because most of the place was just a murder trap overall and they're trying to survive and only had to deal with 2 true combat and the rest is just trying not be murdered by living statues, death doors, and stopping a clay army of trapped souls from trampling them (Note: this was a Lvl 0 Dungeon for narrowing down to your one 1st lvl charater who gets to have a class if human). For a group who would be more organized in understanding what they're doing will be doing, I'm going have to keep it a bit more controlled.
good vid! I don't use initiative or action economy rules. by keeping to theatre of the mind and on occasion using a grid map for perspective, combat is fast - messy - deadly. it takes alot of practice to play this way, but is very rewarding.
thank you ive been having trouble like making combat not about squares and hit or miss and this helped give me some ideas on how to well combat roleplay
In my games, I use TotM on a case by case. If the fight includes 1 or 2 ennemies, the terrain is simple or I don't have a battle map, then I use TotM. But if the map is complex, with traps and obstacles, many ennemies and when character speed is crucial, then I encourage battlemaps. When I use TotM, fights are less central story-wise, less risky and more loosey-goosey on the rules. But if the fights is dangerous, where every decision can lead to life of death, where action economy is strict, then battlemap it is. Being in an 8 player group, the latter comes up more often.
A lot of the tips are actually pretty useful on a grid I think, especially if one's playing via a VTT. Avoiding big open maps all the time, recapping, keeping the drama fairly high, saying yes to get the action moving, are all useful on or off a grid. Being locked onto a grid in both space and time (i.e., via the action economy) can also be a real fun killer. Having your turn burned over and over because you're trying to hustle across a big map or have to keep readying for someone else may be tactically important but it's very boring (this happened to me in a recent game). I've gotten a little looser on a grid and will often let PCs (and enemies) move an extra square or cut a corner. I'll also be a bit looser with the action economy, too, as long as it's not abusive.
@@crimfan yeah I agree with this. I plan on using all of these tips even if I use a grid. I also like this if the combat encounter is smaller vs using a grid for bigger or more important encounters
@@antuanlemon484 Non-grid also lets me be more spontaneous with random encounters and such. Finding or making decent maps otherwise turns into a hella prep job.
I'm a relatively new DM playing with fairly new players and we have been sticking to gridded combat so far in our campaign - simply because it's been a good way for everyone to learn the rules and the concepts behind combat in D&D - especially for the newest player in our group, this has been helpful to build an understanding of how the rules work and what the limitations are. However, I'm slowly pushing us away from grid-only combat to allow for more theatre of the mind encounters, when and where it's appropriate. Sometimes when the layout is confusing and complex, it makes sense to offer a map to my players, otherwise they start getting frustrated that they lose track of the layout, or I mis-communicate something and we end up picturing different things. Where theatre of the mind has been fun, is with simpler layouts that don't contain a lot of confusing geometry and layout - this way everyone can picture a simple arena with logical props... but hey, maybe we'll all get better at it over time - I think using both is a good way to inform players of what they are able to do, while still exploring some of the more "fun" ways to play out combat! =)
I have always played theatre of the mind - we couldn’t afford the time for paints and miniatures. Now with VTT I do theatre of mind for most encounters and VTT for planned set piece encounters
I played theater of the mind once but hated it because I’d invested a lot of mobility features into my character (didn’t know we were going to be TotM). All those features were useless.
I run mostly gridded because that’s what my chosen system was built around, and if I wanted to mostly run Theater of the Mind I would learn a new rules system built to feature it. That said, I ran last session in a sort of TotM style because I was hitting fast-forward on the campaign (I need them to be higher level to survive the next big story objective and didn't feel like playing out all the XP grinding). They had to do a Helm's Deep level of city defense, and I wrote up a quick scenario for each of them and asked what they did at particular moments. The paladin got lawful orders from a wounded city officer to go chase down a hobgoblin, but that meant the officer was abandoned to a rapidly approaching pack of ghouls. That sort of thing.
A great tip I received as a DM for the theater of the mind is this: Allow your players to improvise the battlefield. A classic example, you did not intend for there to be a chandelier, but the rogue asks if there is one. Maybe you did not really think about it, but it makes sense to be there, so sure, it's there now, and the player gets involved with the battle design. I find with grids and maps, players see the map as THE objective truth, and it limits their creativity.
My introduction to rpgs was with a DM who did theater of the mind exclusively, so that’s what I was always used to. I didn’t play on a grid until joining another group years later. I still prefer theater of the mind
Theatre of the mind has its place in live sessions in my opinion. The pace gets quicker and you feel more locked in to your personal narrative. Sometimes the only drawback is losing your situational awareness on the battlefield if there are no maps and tiles, so perhaps try to find a combination of the two to create an epic fast paced combat a way to appease both sides of the argument? Say a situational map with no squares and everything be approximate or 'close enough'? I'd say it makes for good story telling both visually and imaginary
We recently had a combat that started at a party and it turned into a chase after we got the baddie down low enough. The DM switched it to theater of the mind at that point. I think it's just a situational thing and the lines for which is better isn't even totally clear...but I think the larger and/or more complex the field gets, the better theater of the kind becomes.
Suggestion 2 is great advice even if you ARE using a grid. Recontextualizing the turn for each character lets you get a lot more mileage from the meager content attack rolls actually produce and lets your players know that you are as invested in the trials and triumphs of the PCs as the players are.
I've done both for years depending on the group. IF your players are particularly clever or good at visualizing AND they don't have AoE AND they don't have things like ADHD that makes it hard to focus and IF they are paying attention 100% of the time (typically meaning you have shorter sessions), Theater of the Mind works fine. Ever played a White Wolf game? They're designed with TotM in mind, so things work out well as long as the criteria are met and make it easier to hit those criteria with thier design. Changeling's great, give it a shot. HOWEVER, for most groups I've played with it's a trainwreck, ESPECIALLY in a system with Grid in mind. The people who get it are frustrated with having to spend so long describing the scene constantly, there will usually be two or three different ideas of how any scene is actually playing out in people's heads leading into some sort of argument if there's any stakes. Doesn't help that the DM will often misspeak or forget something partially through, leading to chaos even if corrected. At the end of the day, the skills required for TotM are also required in some degree for a good Grid session. TotM people will still have nearly as good a time with the grid, but people who need a grid REALLY struggle without one. So whenever my group plays, it's grid. No use making things far harder on half or more of my players if slapping down a battle mat and some spare dice for minis won't hurt anyone, and frankly help me keep track of things easier.
Cody, you know me. I'm a war gamer: Heroscape, Bloodbowl, 40k, etc. So there certainly a comfortable familiarity with gridded combat for me. That said, it's D&D. As a role-playing game, there should be leniency on certain actions, and sometimes, it might be easier to be all theatre of the mind. It is a little bit of pet-peeve of mine, though, when DMs do theatre of the mind only because they aren't prepared or don't feel like having a map, not out of some artistic reason.
I hated theater of the mind. Visual aids were what got me into D&D, but the way you just explained how to go about it changed my mind. Plus, though I absolutely LOVE using maps as much as possible, I can see how having every combat encounter require a map can make it very heavy-laden on myself even when I don't want it to be in preparation for DM'ing. Saving this for sure! o 3o
I’ve started waiting for a full round of combat before doing any narration and my players are loving it. Basically during the round of turns, it’s just I move here, slash this guy, do x damage, etc. Once we get to the top of the round I look at the notes I’ve taken during the round, and describe the round happening simultaneously. It really helps reinforce the fact that a round is only 6 seconds and all these things are happening simultaneously. It’s made combat go much faster as well and has turned combat from a narrative slog to an exciting and dramatic event. I highly recommend DMs give this a shot.
that's a really nice way of doing it. Mind if I steal?
Ive used this method as well. Makes for unique "teaming" descriptions (Anna jumps over the tavern table and strumbles to the floor as Gareth was about to wrap around the table he noticed his friend in need and jumps the table flying over here shield in hand to block the incoming attack and take hold of the foe after punching him in the face while she takes this moment to stand up and plunge her word deep in to his belly felling him instantly) In reality turn wise Annas turn was first and she ate it over the table in and flops at the enemies feet just to stands up and stab him. Enemy goes next but misses despite her laying on the floor while he looked at her and then Gareth comes in and finishes the enemy.
But for one of my groups I just cant use it because they move too slowly. Works Very WELL for groups that can keep it quick. This may also not work for groups that really want to describe their own actions. I quickly let them describe the mechanics and then I tell the story. I still run and LOVE grid combat but IMO being well versed in TOM gives more versatility and speed to certain encounters. Is it just part of the story like a brawl in this tavern that may have never happened and is more about the story than the crunchyness of numbers or is this a fight that is a culmination of tracking down the right hand of BBEG for several sessions. Its also nice to not feel like you need a map for everything, helps on prep time.
@@SimonDouville1 What if this person did mind? No need to ask for permission mate! It’s not a trademarked way of playing :)
@@timelessadventurer He did mention that he higly recommends DMs give this a shot, which implies, that he doesn't seem to mind if people use his idea :P
Totally gonna try this. I love giving descriptions and I know my players love it, so wrapping it all up seems nice.
I've never liked dealing with theater of the mind combat as a player. Even if the DM is willing to be a bit loose with spacing, the fact that the players have to be constantly asking for information about where things are slows things down and makes it harder to plan things in advance.
With a grid, I can see the spacing at all times and can plan my turn quietly while other players are going. Without a grid, I can't effectively plan until I'm able to get information from the DM about what things are in range. Even with the example in the video about the cone hitting 2 enemies, or maybe 3 with the risk of hitting an ally, the problem is that I don't get those options until my turn begins and I can ask the DM what possibilities exist. Not being able to plan your turn until your turn begins bogs everything down.
Different people have different levels of spatial awareness, my groups never had a problem pre planning actions and keeping track of a battlefield without seeing it, but we've all played like that for many years before we played together.
Theater of the mind combat sucks so so much. Not even Matt Mercer can make it fun.
100 %. This is the number one issue with theatre of the mind combat.
Seems like it depends on the version you're playing and how deadset on following the rules you are. Personally I prefer a grid and the 3.5 ruleset but I can see the advice in this video working well for 5e players that aren't as engaged by the number crunch of earlier editions.
Totally agree.
Theatre of the Mind combat equals a series of "wait, I thought I was" and "Hey, that's not what I meant" and "I (perform action that defies physics and spacetime)", at least at my table. Thus the grid and minis. I find minis speed up combat. Not every player imagines the same scene even with the same description.
Clear communication, ease of comprehension of the information, and visual aides all work in the era of ADD/ADHD/intellectual divergence. Making the combat turns quick (reflecting the tension in combat) builds the immersion. Descriptions that are short, yet dramatic work. "The orc roars and LUNGES at you!". Keep everything short and punchy.
I also stand when I DM, especially when it's combat. My speech becomes louder and quicker, I tend to point at players who are involved and who's next. I also call hit points "close enough" to give the "kill/defeat" to the right dramatic moment.
Turns have a timer. Take too long and miss your turn, This reflects panicking and freezing in combat. It also teaches players to be ready.
Make sure you have a clearly visual initiative system. When players see when their turn come up, they tend to pay attention.
Roll dice openly (*). Want player engagement? Let them see the attack and damage rolls. (* except Stealth, Perception and other rolls where a player thinks they know the result when they really don't. Use an elevated tray where you see it and they don't. They still roll in the tray, but don't know the result)
Thus I use TotM for everything but combat, then break out the minis for combat.
These techniques can suffer with online gaming, so it's more important than ever to use clear descriptions using natural language. You may even want to do an intermission recap halfway through to help understanding.
TotM is best used for visualizing all of the things around a basic map rather than instead of a map.
@Mike Gould. You spewed facts.
My TotM experience ends up being not nearly as good as I would like with systems that do offer precise distances for attacks and abilities. If I'm playing FATE that treats all distances as "areas" (so your ranged attack would have range 1-2 areas) then things are different, but once the system allows me for tactical thinking and planning going TotM for combat makes me try to rationalize the TotM scene into a grid, and that kills most of the enjoyment for me.
However, I need to say that TotM makes it easier to balance (or unbalance) encounters, since the DM controls the complete flow of movement/range in the battle.
You could add spacing and attacks of opportunity into your recaps.
"The Fighter has fallen to his knees, and the Ogre looks like he wants to finish him off. You think *you could make it on time* to renew his fighting spirit, but the hobgoblin has you *locked in combat* and moving could *leave you vulnerable* to his jagged sword."
Including suggested actions like this could both prevent spacing questions if you know your player is likely to come to the Fighter's aid AND help guide/remind newer players to battle mechanics and what their PC can do in combat.
I used to play theater of the mind. As a DM it is much easier with a battle map. Keeping track of my 6 players and the NPC's. no thanks.
Yeah D&D is not a game to play theatre of the mind in. Now Call of Cthulhu definitely is.
In-person: theater of the mind.
Online: grid combat.
Just my preference.
I'm al for theater of the mind, but I'm always struggling with dungeons, how do you do it?
@@23matip When I'm running theater of the mind, I tend not to sweat the details of the dungeon. I narrate their course and path and present options to the players when it would impact the result of the game.
Otherwise, I keep a map of the dungeon and use a token (or a penny) to mark their location with the dungeon for reference.
Lol it’s the complete opposite for me and my friends.
@@23matip maps are your friend for that. It's nice if you can prepare a system, where you can reveal parts of the map when needed, and I'll present few ideas for that later, but if you build proper GM-player relation and gaming culture, you can present the layout of the entire dungeon (with maybe hidden passages and stuff like that not marked) and still be fine. Even if your players metagame a bit, and either b-line for the boss room or avoid the boss room to fully explore the dungeon, it's all fine. If they are making such choices, that means they probably enjoy the game more this way, and analyzing their choices can help you make dungeons better suited for their tastes.
Mind you, those maps are supposed to just give a general idea of the layout, and need not be very detailed. They are here to help you with narration, and to get better sense of dungeon layout and path taken.
So now for the ideas for revealing new parts of the map:
- the simplest of ways - just draw it when it's revealed - if it's just a rough sketch, it might be good enough and fast enough
- magnetic board - from simple to fancy - use a board to which magnets stick as a mapholder, and cover the parts of the map that are supposed to be hidden with something and hold the cover with magnets. It can go from a piece of white paper, to fancy magnetic tiles that stick by themselves. Added benefit is possibility of using magnetic party position tracker, which is less prone to being knocked over.
- same as above, but working with gravity and heavy objects to hold everything in place - easier to get for testing this system, but less practical in the long run.
and now for something classic and amazing, but almost forgotten:
- the mapkeeper / cartographer player - engage your players! - so instead of giving out the map, get your players to draw it themselves. Depending on your players, it may be their favorite thing or a nightmare scenario, so keep that in mind. How it works is basically you tell them what they see and feel, and it's their job to draw and mark it. It puts them in the role of dungeon explorers, and it gives a place for intersting map markers, like marking the path from which cold wind blew and such. One thing to note when using this system: don't make your dungeons cramped, leave some spaces between rooms and stuff like that, as the map drawn by players will always be slightly deformed, and you don't want to make it a common source of frustration, that the rooms don't fit, and they either have to redraw the map or make it hard to read.
You might have noticed that I actually didn't answer your question on how to run theater of the mind dungeons, and that is because I believe that dungeons themselves don't have a place in pure theater of mind. At least not the big enclosed mazelike dungeons, that are iconic for the game genre. If you truly don't want any maps, then you have to design the entire dungeon for that.
So let's just throw out everything we know from mapped dungeons, and start from scratch:
instead of tracking anything, just prepare a series challenges that are played out, and just narrate everything else while skipping a lot. Basically aim for a book-like narration of the whole thing. Don't get bogged down by trivial things and just go for major decisions and challenges.
Make some challenges and encounters forced and some hidden behind triggers. So for example, players have to confront golems in the corridor to get to the treasury, but they might avoid that gelatinous cube and giant spider nest if they decide to explore minimally and pass their survival tests. You can put some triggers on luck, some on decisions, and some on passing/failing skill checks, it's all up to you. When designing this way, your dungeon might be more akin to .xml file, than a map, and it's as it should be, it's just a skeleton that'll get fleshed out during play.
Back in the day, we had one player (usually the nerdy wizard) map out the dungeon on grid paper as the DM is narrating. It worked pretty well. It was assumed that the PC was doing this as well and sometimes (oops) the map gets lost or stolen.
Had to run an unexpected theater of the mind combat for 5e last Sunday. The players had chased after a failed assassin off the cliffs of the sword coast. They didn't stop there but literally jumped off the cliff after them. Wrestling underwater. It was amazing!
When my group was running low on players. I posted in several d&d discords. Cody's was by far the most responsive. I have 6 people reply within 24 hrs. Now my group is sufficient in numbers that we dont have to cancel bc not enough players showed up.
Huge fan of the "you don't know if your spell will hit your ally" point. I played through Pillars of Eternity with spell area previews turned off and it was one of the most engrossing combat roleplay experiences I've ever had.
We clearly don't do enough theater of the mind. The part about the hurling giant chasing the players made me think about a trick I come up with: moving encounter. The grid is moving instead of the player. I used it for a vehicle chase inspired by the movie Willow.
The moving grid idea is awesome (excellent reference btw). Totally stealing that lol.
@@Edward.Hillier thanks ! Tell me what you did with it. @patgauvingeek on twitter
@@patgauvingeek Don't tell my players, but they recently acquired a boat that may have to take a trip down a fast flowing set of rapids... ;)
I've done this IP on a local grid, but it's rough on a VTT.
As a new DM, I am actually pretty interested in trying this out. Great video!
I'm not surprised that some are giving up gridded combat, there is a move away from any combat by the new wave of people looking to spend most of their time roleplaying. In some ways, I love that, but I'm sad that they don't realise that they can play strategically and enjoy combat too. I think that we do fully both, and that gridded combat lends itself to a little more strategy. Certainly, theatre of the mind will feel a little bit more like you drama class, and you might find that gridded combat is less immersive, but I value the stretching of my mind that comes with figuring out the best way to strategize and I think there's room for both.
Just roleplay during combat. Treat combat cinematically and both groups win
Why do people who don't want combat even play d&d? It's an inherently combat focused game.
@@Kidneyjoe42 It is, but a people join D&D because it's the most common system out there and there's the name recognition. Also, just because it was initially a combat game and most of the mechanics are combat orientated, doesn't mean it can't be a game that's used for primarily social adventures. How many other systems actually have mechanics for social interactions?
I recap turns and actions from the directly previous turns to creat a sense of everything happening at once. making sure Turn C has what happened in turn A and turn B in mind. Not only that, i believe narrating what has transpired so far helps the player take a faster, sometime more reactive decision
Excellent advice. These are the things I've been doing since 1977. I'd also high recommend trying games like Dungeon World and 13th Age. They will hone your TotM skills as they are designed with either abstraction for distances and areas(13th age) or are simply verbal description (DW). They get you out of the rules and into the fiction.
*Dungeon World* is great! (nothing against 13th Age either).
My group has been playing *Monster of the Week* for almost a year now and we're loving that a lot too.
Seeing as we play via Discord, their TotM game design has made it a lot less work while being tons of fun.
@@mandodelorian4668 If you like MotW, you should check out Blades in the Dark too. A bit crunchier and relies entirely on DM improvisation (though it gives you lots of tools for that) but you get great TotM encounters.
One of the many reasons MotW is so good - last tie we played my wife was a flying were-velociraptor.
@@JonathanAwesomeify Nice, will check out BitD, thanks.
"a flying were-velociraptor" brilliant!
I have "never" played pure theater of the mind. There was always a map, flipchart or white board. In hundreds of RP sessions.
Its great. Keeps immersion and it doesnt feel like combat is a minigame.
I really like theater of the mind when it's a small space or few enemies. Sometimes I just want to choose who I attack without concerning myself with range and movement. I dare say that any encounter where you can go from one end of the room to the other in a single movment action should be TofM
@@DigiMatt52 Yeah. You are right. In my shadowrun days we had a lot of them: "4 security guards burst into the labratory. What do you do?"..."Take cover, light`em up!"
But most of the time a scetch of the labratory was on the white board anyway.
I personally like to set up maps for most fights and interactions, but do theater of the mind for silly/fun fights or dramatic fights that lets the players RP alot
You did a great job and I love the theater of the mind as it's just the Players, their character, and the GM and their story/ NPCs. Also, it's really easy to set up and teardown, costs just the rulebooks, Dice and pen and paper, and allows for more imagination and freedom that is the reason why I play Tabletop. Although it's to be noted some players are turned off or can't play because it's hard for them to keep track of everything and play at the same time.
Hi, all. I tend to use the mixed approach: T-O-T-M for small, random encounters and limited ranged/spell attacks; battlemat for more intense, major combat sessions, and for long-distance assault plans.
Got a game Friday. Can't wait to see what you suggest
I have a super hard time keeping everything straight in my head when doing pure theatre of the mind. I'm a very visual person.
Same. Even in a TotM combat i usually draw little things with arrows showing how they're moving (it ends up looking like a sports game plan)
It's funny cause i started this for myself and inevitably i end up with all the details and helping everyone else remember what's going on across the whole battlefield
For us it is situational.
Going through a dungeon or traveling where encounters are expected? Grids and maps and such.
If the combat is more spontaneous, say a tavern brawl or an argument that turns violent, ToTM.
I've done both grid and theatre of the mind, and for random encounters, I just do theatre of the mind. It's for planned encounters that certain details matter to myself and my players
As always great advice. My players tend to keep me on my toes, fight when I prepared intrigue, and talk when I have exciting combat prepared. Mixing in more TotM is going to be huge for making me feel like I was unprepared for something. I'm also using the "sticky of descriptors" starting today.
I'd never give up grid combat, I love all the little squares and minis and even the dumb arguments about if a character who is 6 foot is technically two cubes high or not
All the games I GM for are run theatre of the mind. I love it and it means I save time on trying to get maps, minis and tokens together for a game (digital or in-person). I just made sure everyone was on board with what Theatre of the Mind meant during session zero. What was expected of the players and the kind of language we would be using. When everyone buys into it, it's magic.
I'd have no problem with it if given a heads up in session 0. Let's me know not to bother with AoE type effects. Easy peasy
Honestly i think giving up gridded combat forever is 100% throwing out the baby with thr bathwater.
It seems to me that there really are no benefits to TotM that cant be integrated into gridded combat with a descriptive enough DM, which you would need as a baseline for TotM anyway.
Sure, you cant do the “close enough” but you can still think in rounds, do recaps, etc - just because theres a grid doesnt mean the wizard wasnt looking at his spells and got distracted and so on
Personally, I’m with cody there at the end, gridded combat brings a certain level of gamey strategy to it; your DM should be able to take the narrative aspects and benefits of TotM and integrate that into gridded imo
TotM has much less prep work required, since the DM doesn't need to find a battle map or make one from scratch. I use this for simple combats, such as a few bandits on the side of the road. I see no need to pull up a map when the combat will probably only last one round. I make battle maps for more climactic encounters.
I think using more TotM aspects in gridded combat is generally good. I've played with a few DM's that everything has to be strict and perfect by the grid.
I run my table with a grid for combat, but if players are trying to do something cool I'll slide on the side of the player if everything is close enough, even if by the grid they might miss. The grid is really just a guide so I don't have to tell people where things are constantly. Back in college it used to be just bottle caps on a table
@@SilentFlatulence You don't really need a battle map for every single encounter, tho. If your players are reasonable, they'll most likely be okay with a blank map with a grid, especially if it's a random encounter with a few bandits by the road.
@@SilentFlatulence DM prep is the same as teacher prep. Sure its front heavy, but eventually you have shit backlogged so much that its a really non-issue especially if youre using VTT which sounds to be the case based on your wording.
If youre using a singular dry/wet erase laminated grid, it really doesnt take but a minute or two to draw a quick layout (river here, rocks here and there) and then use the rest as TotM.
@@BerlitzSama
You're right, and by extension, they'll most likely be okay without a battle map for the odd encounter. Granted, I've actually talked to my players and know this directly, but I'd imagine many groups would take a similar opinion.
Im glad to hear someone talk about this topic because I have never played a game with combat on the grid. My group is 100% theatre of the mind combat and it works quite well. There are hiccups once in a while mostly because someone wasn't paying attention at an important moment, but on the whole with a DM that is comfortable and confident enough to do it, it's awesome and we are able to create some amazing scenes that you can't do on a board.
Once I became a "forever DM", I began to see everything from a designer/engineer mindset.
Now whenever I run games or make mechanics, I think about how the most imaginative player would do with my creations, and how the least imaginative player would do. Grid based combat is generally more useful because most players aren't very imaginative in my experience, they need visual aid. "Theater of the mind" only works well for niche situations or minor combats that aren't really threatening.
This is my take. I've had all my players tell me they don't want to do Theater of the Mind for combat as they are visual players. Which is fine and I completely understand. I'll accommodate that as much as I can. However I might switch to theater of the of the mind in certain circumstances like a small encounter where I'm introducing a certain type of enemy they can easily dispatch and it might not make it past round 2, or the like where it'd take less time to just run it then it would to pull out the map. Or a situation like the giant tossing boulders at them while they try to run for cover... (which in reality would end up being more or less a skill challenge). There are some good reasons to run both types, and it really comes down to how the DM uses them. Sticking to one or the other just really limits what the game can really be, though.
As a new GM these tips feel pretty helpful even if I'm not running Theater of the Mind. I definitely need to work harder on adding more vantage points/points of interest in my maps.
One of the best sessions I had with my players was one that went completely off the beaten track within 30 minutes of the start of the game - I'd been meticulous about maps up until that point, it being my first campaign as a DM and wanting to be "prepared", but through the players' choices and my naïve curiosity we found ourselves in a situation were the party split and needed to find each other through rough, unexplored terrain. A few impromptu skill tests later (crossing a swamp for some, cliff climbing for others), the session culminated in a theatre of the mind random encounter with a very flustered mama bear and her cubs, right as the players found each other on the trail.
I found it immensely freeing as a new DM to have my focus not tied to a board, but to the story, and it was a key turning point in the party's roleplaying relationship. The party is now at level 4, and a bit less squishy (I think they'd only just made second level at the time), and we've had a ton of awesome grid-orientated encounters since - but after watching this video I'm looking forward to a chance for them to make their way through the wilderness again, putting aside the map and seeing what stories we can discover with just our wits and imagination.
I’ve never played D&D or been a DM but I love Cody’s enthusiasm. I can’t wait to play my first game one day 🔥
Get out there and try it! It has easily become my biggest hobby and I still find time to play even tho I'm out of school and in a very intensive career field. You will probably find it becoming a passion 😁
Thank you for mentioning body language. I feel like this gets missed a lot but, non verbals are key to reading how the players are feeling where the energy of the game is going. It’s harder online but body language is super important
Ever since discovering ultimate dungeon terrain (from Professor Dungeon Master aka DungeonCraft) I found it splits the difference very well. Its a nice middle ground especially if you enjoy the visualization of miniatures
+1 for Prof DM and Ultimate Dungeon Terrain!
Super great compromise, yes!
I DM on a Wednesday and my wife does her Saturday session. I do completely old school Dragonlance. No maps unless I draw them myself and am very loose with spacing. I just find it easier. I can say yes or no to stuff while not disturbing the scene. However she is running Curse of Straad at the moment and struggling with it. Hopefully this video will help. Thank you dude.
Just picked up the ol’ school Dragonlance modules at a comic shop. What are you using for your campaign-is it completely homebrew? Do you involve the characters in the novels as NPCs?
@@apmartini70 I decided to run with a side story to the main dragonlance main theme. I made the choice very early on than my characters would occasionally bump into someone from the novels but I want that to happen as little as possible. They have had Kitiara chase them across the blood sea for a night. (This being before she was a Dragon Highlord as I set my campaign about a year before the main books). The have also met uncle trapspringer briefly and had an encounter with Astinus at the great library but I am trying to limit the interaction with the storyline to vague glimpses where possible.
Excellent video. I run both kinds of combat, gridded and theatre of the mind. What I use depends on the situation and the atmosphere I want to create for the encounter. The tips you give here I use for both. Expecially the tone. Ramping up the tone, recaping and creating a sense of urgency during combat helps tremendously in both instances. I had a big smile on my face during the whole video. Well done sir.
edit: As far as the part where the PCs are running as giants throw boulders at them. I'd probably use a skill challenge of some kind for that. IMO you could really make it epic doing that.
Your advice is always solid and fresh compared to other DM guides on youtube. You also seem like a very fun and engaging DM yourself.
After playing Mutants and Masterminds for a long time, then going back to D&D (skipped 4th) and starting to craft terrain etc... i LOVE grid. I make it a bit gamey in some ways, like levers and stuff that can be interacted with to change the encounter, but the players have become SO much more active.
An overview map (not drawn to fine scale helps firm up the scene you have describe) and then let the mind games begin. Recently had an invisible MU/T get cornered and trapped in the targets dining hall during dinner and was quite memorable. The character was nearly hyperventilating in fear when his door got closed. Great vid thanks.
I love this video . I’m playing on Saturday with a group that hasn’t met over 18 months . I have grid maps but also build terrain without grids. I’m using this information , this weekend, and using it with a grid map.
Man I have to step up my game and I can’t wait !!!!!!!
Hey Cody, really cool video! It might be one of your best so far.
90% of the time I see "hints for better combat" on the internet, it's basically how to speed things up and get it over with so everyone can go back to having fun as soon as possible. I was very pleased to see concrete suggestions and solutions that focus on making combat actually *better*, instead of simply faster.
Awesome work. Definitely stealing a few ideas for myself there. Cheers! :)
Usually I only do theater of the mind when I don't have much time to prepare for a session or if I'm just playing a quick one shot with my friends. It's kinda hard for me to keep a consistent image of the battlefield because of my shit recent memory retention, so if you have a similar problem I recommend having a loose grid(or just a gridless map) behind your DM screen just to situate yourself every once in a while. Taking quick notes about the characters' actions can also help.
I like grid maps so much that i map out entire city blocks and interesting locales on grids for my players too look around in and explore on roll20, because i feel like although i can describe the environment well, it always gives me a bit of pride and it gives the players a better idea of what's around them if they can see it, and it allows me to be very precise with what i want to happen and what the players want to do.
I like both types of combat. The first bigger campaign I ever played was a theatre of the mind campaign played entirely over voice chat with a dice roller and it was a lot of fun. I've found that in combat players pay a lot more attention if you are doing theatre of the mind, it forces them to. I have had players who in the past would zone out in combat if we were doing grid combat because they could just look down. But at the same time if everyone is engaged and paying attention then it is so much fun to use miniatures.
Love the tip about the sticky note! Gonna try it this weekend. I’ve been thinking of ways to improve combat narration, this came out at the right time!
I'm about to run the first session of a theatre of the mind campaign tomorrow! I thinkTotM is great practice for any DM who's an avid writer to flex their descriptive muscles. When the players don't have minis and maps to rely on, it's up to you to paint those pictures in people's heads!
what really opened my eyes to making combat interesting as a player and just-now-a-gm is Fate Core's emphasis of having aspects everyone can use in the combat.
trying out different table top systems or variation really broadens your horizons
I only run Theater of The Mind. I've tried grid combat before, but the players started looking at the game like a chess board and playing it like if it was Warhammer, completely forgeting to think three dimensionaly and to fight creatively. It ruined the immersion and the roleplay, so I ditched the idea. As far as I'm aware, all of my player prefer the way I run combat over the way most grid users they've played with do, so I see this as an absolute win.
I've implemented tips #2 and #4 throughout my DMing career. I typically use theater of mind if the combat isn't a big narrative point, involves a small group of enemies the group have take on multiple times (i.e. basic goblins, orcs, kobolds), or when the combat isn't expected (i.e. my players made certain choices OR random encounters). I use gridded combat for finales, new enemy introductions, or if I get a unique combat situation (tip #1 example).
As a DM, I love D&D5e's rules being perfect for TotM, and it's the only way I DM. I usually describe each players actions in the environment at the end of their turn so everyone knows exactly what's going on.
Though, I've found that PF2e's crunch is much more immersive for me as a player.
These are some awesome suggestions I hadn't really thought about, thank you. I just find it is rather difficult to run theatre-of-the-mind combat online. I started as a newer DM with a group of full newbies in roll20 recently and while we use the little cameras, it is really hard to get visual cues or see body language.
Thank you for making this video, its really helpful. I'm new to D&D and I've taken the task on to DM to a group of all newbie players. We are now on Session 7 and the few combats I ran I've really struggled to keep from the old ' you hit, what's the damage?' style. My players are still getting into the swing of what dice they need to roll for everything and I've found everything slows down and the excitement disappears along with the pacing. I am definitely going to use a few of these tips in my next session as my players are coming up against a Giant Boar and Owlbear.
I really prefer gridded at least when it comes to combat
I hybridize TotM and grid. I'm a writer, and have been for 20 years. My combats are narrative and descriptive, but still fast-paced, and involve 'close enough' but also tactics and strategy. (Not super heavy on those, of course, but enough.)
One of my most recent encounters involved the party traveling through some wilderness, and at a small river crossing, they were ambushed by a large pack of ankhegs. The water and hilly terrain, combined with the grassland around them, as well as dealing with a horse-drawn wagon, and personal mounts made the whole thing interesting and memorable. Also acid ruins cloth very fast. Almost lost our sorceress because of a couple well placed acid sprays.
Your video is great and has some good ideas, that could totally work great at the right table, but IMO theatre of the mind combat only works if your players listen. I've tried it too many times because I hate drawing maps and had way too much, wait where was I what's happening. Even just a simple blank grid staves off so much confusion. I'm remembering the locations of 7 different guys, who goes next, the twist that's going to happen in round 3 and where the 4 traps are but ask a player to remember where they are in relation to other people and their minds just shut down.
Last week in our in-person game I was explaining where a PC was located in a skirmish, what threats were around her, and where her allies were. We were making eye contact the whole time. Then she says, "What? Sorry I wasn't listening".
Few things can actually break me out of my flow while DMing but that moment...I just said, "I was talking *directly to you*...".
So I've decided Theater of the Mind, something I've wanted to try since Ive been playing online with maps for years now, is definitely not for this group.
It's easier for you to keep track of where things are because you created the encounter. The whole thing was born from your imagination so your mental image of it is already clear and accurate. The players don't have that. They have to go from blank slate to knowing everything just from your descriptions alone. Even someone who has good spatial reasoning and is listening intently can misunderstand things simply because they can't read your mind and it's not possible for you to fully convey your mental image through words alone.
Our d&d party is facing a gibbering mouther in one of the Icewind Dale's many caves next week. These tips will make the encounter memorable!
Great video Cody! I'm coming back to D&D after almost 30 years without playing (since 2nd edition and AD&D), and I almost didn't grasp what you were talking about in here. We didn't have miniatures back then, and it was ALL in our imaginations. And it was fun as hell! That being said, I'm sure I'd love to go into combat w a grid and some minis as well! It's definitely a one versus the other situation. Kudos again, see you on Discord!
I'm DM'ing tonight and I run a theatre of the mind game and I was really surprised that I do some of these already!! Definitely going to try start thinking in terms of rounds and maybe not recap as much.
I replayed your wedding planning advice for my fiancee. Who knew watching a D&D video would help with our wedding?
I love home made terrain grid n non grids. I did try theatre of the mind tonight....was great. I'll be doing both in the future. Thank you.
I absolutely love gridded combat but there is incredible value in theatre of the mind combat, it can be incredibly engaging when done well.
The Dragon of Icespire Peak (Divine Contention) campaign has an epic narrative combat scene that is one of the most memorable experiences I have ever had with my group.
I've only done TotM combat for the past 10 years of my 15 year Gaming career and it's been fine.
What's most important is description.
Thanks for the video promoting TotM :)
Tone is the main reason I prefer TotM for Raveloft style campaings. It feels like the tension of facing a horror monster vanishes if the players can just look at a grid. I guess it has to do with the grid making it a third person view of the action, while TotM makes it feel more like first person.
GREAT recap suggestion!
Since moving to a distance version of playing D&D, theater of the mind combat has become the go-to way to play for my groups. Not all players are tech savvy enough to utilize the different kinds of virtual maps, and frankly that's a lot of effort on my part as the DM. Especially for smaller/quicker combats, TotM makes the game flow smoother in real time and it's still a believable and enjoyable experience for everyone at the "table"
I like to mix, I will bring little tokens to give people an idea of where they are, but no grid and give round numbers to supplement the theater of the mind, and I like this as it makes things easier to think about
Fantastic video. Personally I'm all about free flow non gridded combat for all times expect for when I want to crunch numbers. Gridded combat feels more like a tactical game for me and I tend to treat it as such.
But hey, it's all about that time with friends so being adaptive is key
We stopped using minis and gridded combat because it completely broke roleplay. Let me elaborate: it felt like when combat began, we stopped playing D&D and started playing a board game, where the rules of the game became more important than the storytelling of the DM. It became frustrating to the point where we sometimes avoided combat because we knew it would be another episode of arguing.
Playing theatre of the mind takes a lot of practice. One of the things I've found is to make sure combats have interesting narrative stakes. A fight with a mind flayer is one thing - rescuing an enemy combatant from a mind flayer who is trying to extract information from them is something else entirely. (That one didn't go so well.) Fighting a beholder is one thing -- trying to sabotage a cultist's ritual to become a beholder without being seen to be openly attacking them is way more interesting.
We mix and match here and there, but for the most part my group does gridded combat as we like that.
I like running TotM combat for smaller encounters like a lot of people have said. But our table has a 50” flatscreen on it for running digital maps for boss fights and important fights. And lately we have found Dynamic Dungeons on pattern and have been using his maps for those fights. And let me say they are a game changer. Since beautiful maps that are totally animated. They really seem to immerse my players. But again for some combats TotM is fine. I think breaking it up like that is great also. My players know when I’m firing up that TV it gonna be an epic fucking battle!!!
In our homebrew game we use a lot of grid and battle maps but our players LOVE the extra that minis, terrain, and scatter do for the battlefield
Years ago all we had was a grid with markers and it got used for combat but it wasn’t always something we stuck to. A lot of times things would just get hand waved and it would devolve partially into theater if the mind.
Then came the crafting and 3D printing bug and since then I LOVE setting up a scene and a map with terrain and bits and pieces. My brother is the DM and while he’s herding cats he lets me set up the physical scene based on his description of the room and trusts me to put in whatever things I feel will enhance the battlefield. This also sets a good scene for our actual play videos (shameless self promotion here) for Tales of Aneria here on UA-cam!
Lately I’ve been getting more and more into wanting to set gridless scenes and just use some range measurement sticks for moving around the battlefield and casting spells
My table has never liked theater of the mind. Every time I start drifting into something like that they start asking "Can we get a map? Can we roll initiative yet?" haha
Thankfully I love grid combat and really enjoy making interesting and tactical maps.
Something else to also consider with theater of the mind is that not everyone is a visual thinker. I have a very vivid imagination and half the time when I am describing something I'm literally just describing the image in my head. No one else at my table has that level of visual thinking and so theater of the mind, having to picture what is being described, is much harder and not that fun for them.
On the other side, I'm very much a visual thinker and I hate theatre of the mind style combat. The few times I've played it, the problem is I just start making a gridded map in my head, but then all the actions of the players and monsters don't follow the map. So I get frustrated that the situation around me is unclear, and ask for a gridded map instead. I mean, I know it's in the book as an option, but to me moving to TotM combat is just one step further into playing something other than D&D, which is what I honestly feel a lot of people should do.
Im a huge fan of TotM over grid played combat. I have been playing since the 80s and there is a real disconnect from the game when you start bringing out the grid. Most of the time the players are more worried about where they are on the map then where they are in the game. There is a loss of creativity if you ask me. Currently I run a game on a VTT and most of the combat is done on a grid. I wont lie. Its getting old. It slows the game down and is very dull next to TotM. Players are constantly counting the grid distances over and over again. It feels like a totally different game, and it for the most part is. Do I hate it? No. But I feel the soul of role playing combat is lost. Now as a DM I will say that I feel TotM is far less work prep time. Setting up combat encounters for a grid can prove a real hassle when you cannot find a map that fits your vision. This can happen often. Also when the players go wondering off it is far more difficult to adjust the game when all of your encounters are ready to go in the location they skipped over. I tend to make sure I have some generic maps I can use ready to go. My next campaign will be TotM.
I totally agree with you. Lots of people on here are dissing on theater of the mind, but I feel like a lot of the magic is lost when you don't have to imagine the scene
100% agree. It becomes a game of battle ships and ceases to be a role playing game
THIS!!! I've also been playing since the earlymid 80's and the idea of gridded combat was something that never came up. We always used TotM. I've played gridded combat a few times in the 21st century, but it always feels like a chess game (with dice and fireballs) as opposed to an actual part of the story going on in the game.
Maybe I'm just an old man and prefer the way things were 'back then'.
Nope, wait, I'm not. I happen to effing LOVE 5e (a huge improvement on the ADnD 2e I used to play), everything except gridded combat :)
I tend to use them differently. If they're fighting a big bad, or a group of mobs, usually it's a grid. But then they've been part of a battle, there were armies, or they were defending a city and some were at the wall, others out on the field... and to get that scope onto a map just didn't seem feasible. So they were in combat, they were fighting soldiers and such, there were turns, but it was much more theater of the mind, and I was on point with that movement "How long will it take from the field to the wall?" "Two turns," but obviously it would take more than 12 seconds to get there by dashing, but that made it seem like distance, and still didn't take that long. I'm definitely not about to give up on grids, my players SEEM to like positioning, and figuring out movement, and getting to the edge of their spell casting distance, and hitting a point where they can hit creatures but the creature can't hit them. Plus, why did we learn to count by 5's in school, if not for this?
Some of my friends have trouble keeping track of eachothers actions even with the grid and miniatures and spell cards and combat logs and having a great DM describe things very well, so we have never tried TotM in our 15 yrs playing together...
My group runs two different games. One is theater if the minds and one is grid and the benefits of the grid is we love as a team to set up ambushes.
Great tips. I think this is why 3rd ed had the ranges in short/medium/long with the foot measurement in parentheses next to that. Relatively few spells had the exact number as the only range listed. Similar thing with cover - the rules were obviously developed from a theatre of the mind standpoint with numbers slapped on top, rather than the later versions simplifying it to essentially a status effect. There was a lot of good design stuff in 3.0 that I think got tossed out with edition evolution, unfortunately.
I like to have a few planned fights with a grid and map. But I also LOVE to add a few ToM fights to keep everyone's brain in that creative space. So at my table, I will mix them up.
What I may be doing is a combo of both in my Dungeon Crawler Classics online. Dungeon Crawlers is already challenging enough with the monsters being insanely powerful (even when you're a Lvl 0 Peasant), and Spells are already more chaotic than DnD spells that the effects change as you become more powerful and you roll for the effect most cases that doing a grid would help people to remember where they're placed. However I may *embellish* the gridded map with Theater of the mind to kinda add to the experience and give them extra things to do. When I was doing pure theater of the mind with the Kids I Judged for (name for the "DM/GM" for DCC), it was okay because most of the place was just a murder trap overall and they're trying to survive and only had to deal with 2 true combat and the rest is just trying not be murdered by living statues, death doors, and stopping a clay army of trapped souls from trampling them (Note: this was a Lvl 0 Dungeon for narrowing down to your one 1st lvl charater who gets to have a class if human). For a group who would be more organized in understanding what they're doing will be doing, I'm going have to keep it a bit more controlled.
I prefer theater of the mind because I really don’t like drawing out the maps tbh. This was really helpful!
good vid!
I don't use initiative or action economy rules. by keeping to theatre of the mind and on occasion using a grid map for perspective, combat is fast - messy - deadly. it takes alot of practice to play this way, but is very rewarding.
thank you ive been having trouble like making combat not about squares and hit or miss and this helped give me some ideas on how to well combat roleplay
In my games, I use TotM on a case by case. If the fight includes 1 or 2 ennemies, the terrain is simple or I don't have a battle map, then I use TotM. But if the map is complex, with traps and obstacles, many ennemies and when character speed is crucial, then I encourage battlemaps. When I use TotM, fights are less central story-wise, less risky and more loosey-goosey on the rules. But if the fights is dangerous, where every decision can lead to life of death, where action economy is strict, then battlemap it is. Being in an 8 player group, the latter comes up more often.
Why was this not called improve theater of the mind combat??
Doesn't really help any of us grid players
A lot of the tips are actually pretty useful on a grid I think, especially if one's playing via a VTT. Avoiding big open maps all the time, recapping, keeping the drama fairly high, saying yes to get the action moving, are all useful on or off a grid. Being locked onto a grid in both space and time (i.e., via the action economy) can also be a real fun killer. Having your turn burned over and over because you're trying to hustle across a big map or have to keep readying for someone else may be tactically important but it's very boring (this happened to me in a recent game). I've gotten a little looser on a grid and will often let PCs (and enemies) move an extra square or cut a corner. I'll also be a bit looser with the action economy, too, as long as it's not abusive.
Too specific to get good clicks
@@crimfan yeah I agree with this. I plan on using all of these tips even if I use a grid. I also like this if the combat encounter is smaller vs using a grid for bigger or more important encounters
@@antuanlemon484 Non-grid also lets me be more spontaneous with random encounters and such. Finding or making decent maps otherwise turns into a hella prep job.
I'm a relatively new DM playing with fairly new players and we have been sticking to gridded combat so far in our campaign - simply because it's been a good way for everyone to learn the rules and the concepts behind combat in D&D - especially for the newest player in our group, this has been helpful to build an understanding of how the rules work and what the limitations are. However, I'm slowly pushing us away from grid-only combat to allow for more theatre of the mind encounters, when and where it's appropriate. Sometimes when the layout is confusing and complex, it makes sense to offer a map to my players, otherwise they start getting frustrated that they lose track of the layout, or I mis-communicate something and we end up picturing different things. Where theatre of the mind has been fun, is with simpler layouts that don't contain a lot of confusing geometry and layout - this way everyone can picture a simple arena with logical props... but hey, maybe we'll all get better at it over time - I think using both is a good way to inform players of what they are able to do, while still exploring some of the more "fun" ways to play out combat! =)
Maybe like a mixture of the two? Sounds interesting to try though! So i'll try this in my games :D
I have always played theatre of the mind - we couldn’t afford the time for paints and miniatures. Now with VTT I do theatre of mind for most encounters and VTT for planned set piece encounters
I played theater of the mind once but hated it because I’d invested a lot of mobility features into my character (didn’t know we were going to be TotM). All those features were useless.
Blame your dm.
I run mostly gridded because that’s what my chosen system was built around, and if I wanted to mostly run Theater of the Mind I would learn a new rules system built to feature it.
That said, I ran last session in a sort of TotM style because I was hitting fast-forward on the campaign (I need them to be higher level to survive the next big story objective and didn't feel like playing out all the XP grinding). They had to do a Helm's Deep level of city defense, and I wrote up a quick scenario for each of them and asked what they did at particular moments. The paladin got lawful orders from a wounded city officer to go chase down a hobgoblin, but that meant the officer was abandoned to a rapidly approaching pack of ghouls. That sort of thing.
A great tip I received as a DM for the theater of the mind is this: Allow your players to improvise the battlefield. A classic example, you did not intend for there to be a chandelier, but the rogue asks if there is one. Maybe you did not really think about it, but it makes sense to be there, so sure, it's there now, and the player gets involved with the battle design. I find with grids and maps, players see the map as THE objective truth, and it limits their creativity.
My introduction to rpgs was with a DM who did theater of the mind exclusively, so that’s what I was always used to. I didn’t play on a grid until joining another group years later. I still prefer theater of the mind
Theatre of the mind has its place in live sessions in my opinion. The pace gets quicker and you feel more locked in to your personal narrative. Sometimes the only drawback is losing your situational awareness on the battlefield if there are no maps and tiles, so perhaps try to find a combination of the two to create an epic fast paced combat a way to appease both sides of the argument? Say a situational map with no squares and everything be approximate or 'close enough'? I'd say it makes for good story telling both visually and imaginary
We recently had a combat that started at a party and it turned into a chase after we got the baddie down low enough. The DM switched it to theater of the mind at that point.
I think it's just a situational thing and the lines for which is better isn't even totally clear...but I think the larger and/or more complex the field gets, the better theater of the kind becomes.
Suggestion 2 is great advice even if you ARE using a grid. Recontextualizing the turn for each character lets you get a lot more mileage from the meager content attack rolls actually produce and lets your players know that you are as invested in the trials and triumphs of the PCs as the players are.
This was great, thank you so much! Cannot wait to apply this to mine!
I've done both for years depending on the group. IF your players are particularly clever or good at visualizing AND they don't have AoE AND they don't have things like ADHD that makes it hard to focus and IF they are paying attention 100% of the time (typically meaning you have shorter sessions), Theater of the Mind works fine. Ever played a White Wolf game? They're designed with TotM in mind, so things work out well as long as the criteria are met and make it easier to hit those criteria with thier design. Changeling's great, give it a shot. HOWEVER, for most groups I've played with it's a trainwreck, ESPECIALLY in a system with Grid in mind. The people who get it are frustrated with having to spend so long describing the scene constantly, there will usually be two or three different ideas of how any scene is actually playing out in people's heads leading into some sort of argument if there's any stakes. Doesn't help that the DM will often misspeak or forget something partially through, leading to chaos even if corrected.
At the end of the day, the skills required for TotM are also required in some degree for a good Grid session. TotM people will still have nearly as good a time with the grid, but people who need a grid REALLY struggle without one. So whenever my group plays, it's grid. No use making things far harder on half or more of my players if slapping down a battle mat and some spare dice for minis won't hurt anyone, and frankly help me keep track of things easier.
This is super helpful im going to use these tips for the upcoming final boss of the story arc.
Cody, you know me. I'm a war gamer: Heroscape, Bloodbowl, 40k, etc. So there certainly a comfortable familiarity with gridded combat for me. That said, it's D&D. As a role-playing game, there should be leniency on certain actions, and sometimes, it might be easier to be all theatre of the mind. It is a little bit of pet-peeve of mine, though, when DMs do theatre of the mind only because they aren't prepared or don't feel like having a map, not out of some artistic reason.
I hated theater of the mind. Visual aids were what got me into D&D, but the way you just explained how to go about it changed my mind. Plus, though I absolutely LOVE using maps as much as possible, I can see how having every combat encounter require a map can make it very heavy-laden on myself even when I don't want it to be in preparation for DM'ing. Saving this for sure! o 3o
Running a solo adventure for my partner that we are posting here on UA-cam. She prefers TotM but I like incorporating maps. Both are fun.