Dr. Jason Lisle - Logic and the Christian Worldview
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- Dr. Jason Lisle speaking on "Logic and the Christian Worldview" at the Denver Society of Creation Special Event at Mt. Zion Lutheran Church in Denver, CO, August 27, 2021.
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God bless Dr Lisle. I'm so grateful for his apologetic gifts.
Thank you Dr. Lisle!! God bless you and your family. To God be all the glory!
Thank you, thank you,thank you Dr lisle!!!! I praise the Lord for your life and the opportunity to learn things I desperately need being married to an evolutionist who has been reading junk for the past 20 years. I still will need a miracle 😀 thank you!
Dr. Lisle is awesome. Keep up the good work 💪
Yup awesone at making stuff up, just like these cult conmen always do
Thanks for this message, by looking at the comments I now see why it's normally turned off. God bless you for bringing logic to Christianity. I've been a logician my whole life, only 50 years but long enough to see that it's on a all time low, well even looking at the comments it's true, God says He will give them over to their debased minds. Ps, Derek Prince was also a logician because back then it was important to think correctly.
Iogic would have you prove the existence of any mythical biblical characters before asserting they did anything?
Yeah they turn comments off because they get tired of being shown to be wrong in their claims.
For soneone to be "logician" you dont know much about logic
" God says " who exactly heard any gods of mythology speak?
@@professorneturman2249 the mentally delusional, or drug users
@@deeschoe1245 true! Faith is openness.
Great message
Thank you for sharing your wisdom on logic and rationality
I believe God gave us the ability to reason by creating us in His image
I intend to use much of your library to help me with my attempt to be a better apologist
God bless you and keep publishing!
Word for today.
1st Timothy
Chapter 6:7-12
7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses...
Amen.
Isaiah 54-17
God's word for his people who believe ..
[17] No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn.
This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD...
JESUS Matthew 6:33-34
33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble
Revelation 10:7
King James Version
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Amen .🙂
Word for today.
1st Timothy
Chapter 6:7-12
7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses...
Amen.
Isaiah 54-17
God's word for his people who believe ..
[17] No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn.
This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD...
JESUS Matthew 6:33-34
33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble
Amen .🙂
The problem with Lisle's claim of Christian ownership of logic is that it can be used to defend ownership of logic by any religion or world view that believes and values logic.
I finally find a video of yours in which comments have not been disabled.
I very much enjoyed your Mandelbrot set video. Very educational apart from the radical religious views. The gist of your argument was numbers are a concept and concepts need a mind, The universe needs numbers and the universe was created before man and so there must have been a mind before man. Therefore God.
The problem is that you used the of number "a concept of quantity" and you fixate on concept and ignore quantity. IMO, quantities exist independently of the concept. Not only that but it is pretty simple concept i.e. there is an unambiguous 1 to 1 relationship between quantity and number. I would suggest we could drop the "concept" and say "numbers are quantities", and I don't think many people would disagree. In any case, an argument that relies so heavily on definitions, first of "number" and then of "concept" is suspect. I could define God into existence, and many do, but my definitions don't change the reality of what happened 13.8 billion years ago or indeed 6,000 years ago. Definitions are a concept of what words mean, not of how the Universe is.
All these syllogisms were found by the pagan philosopher Aristoteles. A fact that doesn´t stop Lisle to force feed a biblical connection to his audience.
A beautiful church. God Beyond All Praising.
The laws of logic don't stem from the nature of God, they are necessary abstract concepts that couldn't be any other way. Let's take the law of identity for example, A=A, a thing is what it is and not what it is not. What makes this a Law of Logic is that things cannot be otherwise, It's impossible for something to not be what it is. That this is so stands on it's own, the impossibility for things to be otherwise is what grounds this and make it a law. No God is needed for this to be true.
He says so much stuff and maintains a completely straight face. How is he doing this?
He maintains a straight face because he is very likely a world-class phony.
Wonderful! ♥
What about fear of crazy people in pulpits?
Demons are afraid of the Word of God being preached, that's perfectly normal!
Love Jason and his ministry but he himself has not used the laws of logic pertaining to the moon landings. I only bring this up because he brings up the moon landings everywhere he speaks.
Is it logical to believe a 17th century understanding of The Bible given our present knowledge of nature and science are fundamentally different, and far deeper?
One might consider that as we learn about observed nature and evolutionary processes we become better informed as to how to understand the Bible. Assuming that God told the whole of the story to Israelites whose knowledge of the world was limited by the “science” at the time of Mosses would be an error. Contemporary physics indicates that time is not a constant flow, and is indeed accelerating. An epoc (a day), previously comprised a much longer duration than we observe today.
In God’s observation is the distinction we make between an epoc and a day significant? Did God build the world in 7 contemporary sized days?
One needs to question the simplistic logic of fundamentalists who refuse to acknowledge scientific observations, preferring instead the idea that God didn’t build the system of the world to be internally consistent. Indeed the entire evolutionary story written in Genesis is consistent with the developing evolutionary story observed by man, but only if one understands that scripture is written to be understood to the fullest extent of human comprehension of the natural world God made.
Indeed if God wanted the world and it’s entire history could have be made last week in God’s time. For us it would appear to have been created before our parents were born, however God’s timeline is fundamentally different to our own - after all God and Christ are eternal and we are not. So the measure of our day is like God’s day in the same way that that man was made in God’s image: man’s day is made in the image of God’s Day. To what extent we are only just beginning to comprehend.
"I declare that the laws of logic are dependent on worldview X. I'm not going to show or demonstrate this, I'm just going to assert it over and over again, hoping it'll stick"
And of course anyone of any belief system could make this same assertion without any need to demonstrate it, thereby showing Lisle has defeated his own argument.
Day is not the same as 24 hours, not in the past and not today.
The earth is not about 6,000 years old and the Bible does not teach this. Hebrews 4:9-10: "There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his." This tells us that the 7th day has not ended. Thus day 7 is a long time span, thus day 1 to 6 must be a long time span. Each believer are to enter into day 7. Also there no "evening and morning" for the 7th day. As day 7 as not ended. Biblical Hebrew has a limited vocabulary, with fewer words compared to other languages, such as English or Spanish. This means words often have multiple meanings determined by context. Day - yom is commonly rendered as day in English translations, but the word yom can be used in different ways to refer to different time spans thus literally is:
Sunrise to sunset
Sunset to next sunset
Time period of unspecified length. (long time span ).
We use the word day the same today: In my grandfather’s day cars did not go very fast.
Deuteronomy 33:15 and Habakkuk 3:6 "ancient mountains".
Gen. 2:4 “in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens”
The events of day 6 can not have happened in 24 hours.
Have you entered into the 7th as Hebrews 4:9-10 asks you to?
Creationism does not equal young Earth. There are many Old Earth creationists.
Psalm 236:1.23-24.10-12.13-15
4:30 So, are arbitrary beliefs likely to be false because the question "What's 2+2" has only one right answer?
What if the question, instead, is "What's not 2+2?"
Arbitrary beliefs are just that arbitrary. This means that they are not authoritative, they are equal in value to the opposing arbitrary belief. So, on their own they can be dissmissed.
Say for instance that my arbitrary belief, is that all things blue are actually green, and your arbitrary belief is that all things green are actually blue. Which one is "true"?
@@kellygipson8354 According to Dr. Lisle, arbitrary beliefs can be true, they are just likely to be false. He claims this is "because there's a lot more wrong answers than true ones", which he supports with an example: "What's 2+2?". I'm simply trying to understand how his one example conclusively demonstrates the claim, as there seem to be obvious counterexamples.
@@theturnpikeframe7923 not trying to speak for Lisle, but I think my comments are in line with what he said. He was not making a definitive argument, he was saying, in passing, that it is possible to hold to a belief, arbitrarily, that happens to be true. For instance, let's say 2+2=4 is a true statement. Now, believing that 2+2=4 because it "looks pretty" is arbitrary. Some one could just as easily say 2+2=5 because it looks pretty.
He is simply saying that holding to a belief arbitrarily, doesn't automatically make it false. It doesn't make it true either. In simpler terms, it is possible to belive something, that happens to be true, for all the wrong reasons. 😕clear as mud right?🤨
If you don't believe it's because you can't. If God wants you to believe then you will and only then
Exodus 12:37-42
Socks with sandals is arbitrary.
Montana Franke sent me here.
Which is their due (whatever is owned to them
If God really existed, apologetics would not be necessary.
Don't think too much ,you may stray from god.
A few minutes in and I was thinking that an all powerful god can do whatever it wants, an all knowing god knows how to do whatever it wants, if suffering is an unpleasant thing an all loving god would not want suffering. The world displays suffering. Using this fine gentleman's logic it would seem that as the world contains suffering then if there were a creator god it would lack one or more of the above properties. To believe otherwise would appear to be arbitrary and inconsistent.
* Except exist.
Nick, be honest. Did you even listen to Jason? Why do you call your creator, sustainer, and ultimate judge an it. You and I are created in His image. Listen to the entire video before you make an illogical argument. Happy Easter. Jesus is coming back. Are you ready for His judgement and wrath?
@@moracehann5857 Easter is the stolen Pagan festival of the spring solstice. Why is it that the vast majority of believers don't even know what they believe in?
@@moracehann5857 Mentioned illogical argument and then you give us an example. Classic comedy gold
@@moracehann5857 your outlook appears to suppose the truth of your notion of a creator deity, I am unconvinced that such an entity exists. As for being ready for the return of christ, there have been people expecting that imminent return for 2 thousand years, I feel that I am as ready as my level of reasonable expectation requires of me. You too have a happy Easter.
I'm sorry, but we do not find logic and rationality in the Bible. Jason's belief in the Young Earth contorts reason, logic and evidence to their limits.
🙈🙉
@Jeffrey Nolan The fact that Dr Lisle has not taken up the invitation by Dr Hugh Ross to put forward his views on young earth creation in front of a scientific audience, well versed in the field, is very telling. Sir, I have a Ph.D in molecular genetics and I am not interested in playing Grand Theft Auto...whatever that is. I too believe that the development of life on Earth is truly remarkable and do not discount a supernatural force behind it all. However, the answer is not to be found in the Bible and those scientists who attempt to bend logic and ignore overwhelming scientific evidence in order to fit their religious interpretation of scripture, must be treated with suspicion.
@Jeffrey Nolan Then please explain how any of the 10s of millions of gods exist outside the bounds of physics. Please answer in a Scientific manner. Good luck 👍
@Jeffrey Nolan Then present this mathematical equation.
well that's too bad.
“The Bible is infallible because it’s the word of God who is infallible because the Bible says so.” Terribly circular reasoning.
And yes, people can absolutely have logic outside the Christian worldview. This entire premise is based on a circular argument. What a joke!
So, I tell you I have the fastest car in the world, and you say prove it. So I want to show you by racing my car, and then you say "you may not use your car to show me that your case is that fastest car in the world", because it's circular training. The Bible has been designed to be self verifiable. God designed it that way to show you it is true. Prophecies are the verification process, where, for example in our lifetime, God said Israel would be a nation again, literally overnight, and would speak pure Hebrew again, and the people would be gathered from 'all nations', and the inhabitants of Jerusalem would claim 'God gave US this land, you must not come back here'. This all happened, literally overnight in 1948. Mathematically impossible things, multiple impossible things. Exactly as foretold. God says "Why don't you tell us the future and see if you are gods, tell us the end from the beginning".
@@brett1nita Hebrew as it exists today has barely any connection to ancient hebrew, because ancient hebrew died out after Rome shattered Judea, burned its temple to the ground, and scattered the jews to the winds. What are you talking about? Modern hebrew is a constructed language explicitly in service to an ethnonationalist, white colonist project in the middle east.
So if a father wrote a letter saying he was the reader's father, this cannot be true simply because it is circular reasoning? God is infallible and the Bible is true and if that is circular reasoning but does it make it untrue? There are also outside proofs, I don't think the Bible was supposed to proof the existence of God, there are plenty of evidence if one were to search but the question is if God is true, would you accept God?
You take a plane based on what? Certainly not proof that it won't go down, you take it based on faith which is based on probability, there are many things you choose in life completely not based on truth but faith. There is no proof everything you choose will be safe, tell that to the thousands of people who died unnaturally every day ...they must have thought it was safe to cross the street or drive that car that day....there was no proof it was safe, all based on blind faith. You would argue based probability but that isn't proof. Problem with God isn't proof, you just do not want to accept His probability.
"Rational thinking is Biblical thinking."
HA HA HA HA HA!
Proverbs 3:5. "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding."
🔥🔥🔥
Dr. Jason Lisle - an erudite apologist🏆‼️ An intelligent, knowledgeable fundi in his field. Lucid thinker. Masterfully logical.
Watch AronRa and wake up
How tongue-in-cheek, the guy is lecturing on logic, coming from the people who believe in talking snakes
What beliefs do you have? That's a broad question. Just name a few that you don't exactly know it to be other than the feeling is therethat such and such is absolutelytruth. Or do you have faith and believe in anything.
@@jonathanhall593 beliefs are worthless except to the believer.
Your evidence of A god is so far lacking in every sense of the word.
No the Buybull is not evidence, or an acredited historical document.
It is a shame you do not understand logic or you would realise that it dictates that you are lying.
"Christian logic."
Oxymoron.
"We know evolution is a fact because bacteria have evolved resistance to antibiotics."
Strawman. Nobody claims that is sufficient to establish evolution as a fact.
Contract this with "We know the Jesus was God because the Bible says so."
"You're just a Christian because you were raised in a Christian home."
That's an observation, not an argument. So it is not a fallacy.
"The Bible teaches that God causes lightning and rain."
Again, that's an observation. Not an argument. Not a fallacy.
It's always funny watching Christian apologists pretend to understand logic. Like watching a dog ride a skateboard. You're impressed that they can stay on at all, but ultimately they can only go downhill.
Where did the Universe and life come from. (42)
Science has yet to answer that question. But is getting close.
But you believe it was created by God.
So which one?
The bible acknowledges multiple Gods
“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.
Maybe El the head Canaanite God. Yahweh was just a secondary Canaanite God, the God of war.
*Says so in the bible*
Book of Deuteronomy (32:8-9) stipulates that “the Most High, "El, gave to the nations their inheritance” and that “Yahweh's portion is his people, Jacob and his allotted heritage”
The theme Yahweh-is-a-Warrior is present in all sections of the Torah,
Exodus 15:3:Yahweh is a man of war;Yahweh is his name.
Isaiah 42:13:Yahweh goes forth like a mighty man;like a man of war(s) he stirs up his fury.
Zephaniah 3:17: Yahweh, your God, is in your midst,a warrior who gives victory.
Psalm 24:8:Who is the King of Glory?Yahweh, strong and mighty;Yahweh, mighty in battle
More Likely:
“Anu” the Sumerian God
*Gaia* the Greek God
*Ahura Mazda* the Syrian God
*Marduk* the Babylonian God
*Hadad* the god of Aram Damascus
*Ashur* the Assyrian God
*Amon Ra* the Egyptian God
*Jupiter* the Roman God
Now every one of these Gods defeated Yahweh in battle
I will go with *Anu* the main Sumerian God. Since the Judahites did copy the Sumerian Creation/Flood stories.
Which God? The one who claims to have created the world in 6 days, was it that unclear in the Bible? I am sure it was found in the first chapter in the Bible...All those above defeated Yahweh? Where did you read that from?
@@rc.... sorry do facts bother you. Israel and Judah were defeated and subjugated by those empires.
An Anu created the universe 4000 years before the Judahites plagiarized the story
@@rc.... There are also numerous currently practiced religions that have holy texts (often older than the Bible) that tell how their god or gods created the universe. My problem is:
What criteria did you use, and applied universally and equally to every religion past and present, that conclusively proves the truth of your religion and proves all others false?
Can you give me your criteria?
(And remember, these must be objective criteria, because you cannot use the Bible as proof that the Bible is true until you have proven the Bible is true independent of it. You tried to do that above.)
I look forward to your answer.
@@fordprefect5304
Oh geeze, isn't it obvious that Ahura Mazda is the One True God? He created the world because the holy Zend-Avesta texts says so, and because Zoroastrianism is older than Christianity and is still practiced. Ahura Mazda also invented judgement day, and brought forth a hell that makes the Christian hell look like a kindergarten playground. But I think he is the best god because he doesn't require that you believe in him to get into heaven, only that you be a compassionate person.
@@derreckwalls7508 Yes Ahura Mazda is definitely in the running. Gave us monotheism and heaven and hell.
but, but Anu gave us:
The view of light and darkness as physical entities that cause day and night can be found in at least one ANE text as well. In a fragmentary Sumerian tablet (NBC 11108) from Nippur during the Ur III period (21st cent. BCE), we find the following:
*When Anu, the lord, made heaven shine, made earth dark… Heaven and earth he held together as one… Day did not shine; in night, heaven stretched forth. Earth, bringing forth plant life did not glow on its own*
Sorry folks, there was no logic here.
While the irony throughout this video is comedic the thought that this guy actually believes what he says to be true is extremely sad. Even sadder is many others will follow this path of his.
Logic and the Christian worldview? LOL Sure, the worldview that says an undetectable, invisible, immortal, eternal sky wizard did what earlier Greek Mythology says that Zeus did, and fathered a child with a human woman: and the child was his own father, who was sacrificed to himself to appease the one part of himself by the death of the other part of himself, even though that other part of himself didn't actually die.
Why did you come to watch this video if you do not believe in the Christian worldview?
@@rc.... Why do Creationists go to watch science videos when they reject science? Why do theists go to watch atheist videos when they aren't atheists?
Lots of praise here perhaps it’s because preaching to the brainwashed , sorry converted
Lol
If something requires "apologetics" then it's a red flag that it can't stand up to scientific scrutiny. Mathematics or biology don't have apologetics. I'm all for religion as a way to deal with existential questions but trying to force something as metaphorical as the Bible to conform as a real-life account is painful to watch, no matter how much of a confident snake-oil salesman people like Mr Lisle are.
An apologetic is literally just a defense. And yes, people defend things in science, math, philosophy, etc. all the time. A mathematical proof is a defense of a certain idea.
If you were knew what I knew of the maths that underpins every word of the bible you would realize that it is unique and it's very existence is
profoundly powerful.
John, sounds like someone needs to repent (change thier ways) and get right with the One who loves them and died for them to pay for their sins (Jesus). Happy Easter
If the Christian faith is "true" why do you have to defend it?
Crazy question. Because there are people out there who think 3 to the second power is 6
@@tww1478 Judas heard the same teachings as Peter. One belived, one did not. The reason we "defend" the truth is because there are those who wish to destroy it.
If a murder, who is about to be brought into court, begins arguing that there is no such thing as a judge, is his argument from a "neutral" or disinterested position?
@@kellygipson8354 Equating anyone who is not of the Christian faith with "murderer" is an unbelivably un-Christian thing to do. Besides, not being a Christian doesn't mean one is trying to destroy the "truth". You can believe anything you want.
@@MrWeezer55 I didn't equate anyone with any thing. I just asked if such a person would be capable of being unbiased. Secondly who are you to tell me what is not Christ like. Are you a well studied theologian?Are you an apostle? Are you an elder in my church? Christ called Jerusalem a whore, because that's how they were acting. You may not like truth but that doesn't make it any less true.
As to your stupid notion of believing whatever you want: Murders are not allowed to belive murder is good. Pedophiles are not allowed to belive that procreation with minors is acceptable. Belief is up stream of action. If you are trying to separate belief from action entirety, then how does one take any action at all without first believing that he can?
Biblical creation was disproved 160 years ago.
No it wasn't. Can you prove it?
@@rc.... Yes. Because evolution has already been proven.
@@rc....
Geology and archeology has disproved a young earth too.
Hinduism and Zoroastrianism say the world is even older than science does, and their holy texts prove it!
i don't do biblical thinking, therefore i am not rational? could then billions of other people be illogical too?...
how egotistic and twisted in his apologetic reasoning this learned man has become..
Rolly do you think your right and Jason is wrong? So he is egotistical because he thinks he is right? So logic says would it be true you are wgotistical because you think you are right?
@@moracehann5857 nyek! am i right on what?
The fact that millions of people do or believe anything is no guarantee it's not nonsense. Millions believe the Universe came from nowhere for no reason, with no cause behind it. Yet there are no exceptions to humanity's experience that only nothing comes from nothing. To get past this, Stephen Hawking invoked gravity as his god and others quantum fluctuations. I'd rather have an all-powerful, intelligent creator as my God.
WOW, That's an oxymoron
He is trying to put logic in his belief
and failing hard.