I’m surprised you didn’t mention the new second Penn Station (Moynihan Train Hall) that opened early this year, across the street in the James A. Farley Building (USPS). The new Station is in a building, that was created by the same people that made the original Pennsylvania Station.
*You were a bit harsh there on NYC. We could imagine the original Penn Station being turned into a giant mall. But by this era it would be vacant again. I came to the conclusion that the best designs are the ones that can be converted into new uses repeatedly. Most of the other designs have to go to keep the city healthy. Right? The real crime is that I can't find color photos of Penn. Now about PJs on planes - the airlines were regulated and kept expensive so that only well-to-do could fly. After de-regulation more people could fly. Just like the train industry before it - when anyone could ride (**5:01**).*
If Penn Station could have survived into the '90s, beyond the worst of the more general decay the city was suffering from, it would surely have been an icon of present day New York. Just as Grand Central Terminal still is. It's an eternal shame it never got that chance.
Grand Central still exists due to Jacqueline Kennedy helping out (it too was slated for demolition). There’s a plaque in memory of what she did to preserve it.
There is one detail everyone is forgetting… the station is owned by Amtrak. Given what happened to Washington Union Station before it was restored… Penn station would have been up Shit’s creek without a boat, let along a paddle. Hell, Grand Central was saved, and was still a mess until the mid 90s.
"The tragedy is that our own times not only could not produce such a building, but cannot even maintain it." I think that's just as true today, if not more so. I think there are still plenty of old buildings around New York and elsewhere that may meet with the same fate.
@@timtebowsleftarm5368 Hindsight is a beast. You are correct. But there was no way of knowing that when it was built. Imagine the money and back room deals afforded to the creators of access to the rest of America. They overbuilt because they had the dough. Future maintenance? That’s the other guys problem.
OUTSTANDING PIECE, SIR! You did an excellent review on the history of the station, and this native NYer salutes you! I am very glad the UA-cam algorithm introduced your work to me via your Singer Building video. Have been subscribed since then, and as I commented in that one, I am eagerly reviewing your other videos. Incidentally, the destruction of Penn station was largely what saved Grand Central Terminal. The same fate would have befallen that jewel of urban architecture, but fortunately many influential people in NYC (Jackie Kennedy-Onassis amongst them) remembered Penn's ignominious end, and vowed never to have it repeated.
I had the grand pleasure of walking through it in 1960 as a child and even then I felt its greatness. So sad it was not saved. Thanks to mrs. Kennedy the same faith did not happen to the grand central station on 42nd street.
Possibly the most tragic loss in the history of historic preservation. However, its death wasn’t in vain. It probably played the biggest role in kickstarting the preservation movement in the second half of the 60’s, which has since saved countless landmarks across the nation, like Grand Central Terminal and the Coney Island Cyclone in New York alone.
Sadly the powers that be in Manhattan just see dollar signs when buildings don't make enough money & are far to quick to demolish them the SINGER Building is another one that was just amazing. I stated researching Manhattan Architecture some years back as I have such a passion for great old buildings and Manhattan has LOST A GREAT DEAL over the years. Pennsylvania Station is one of them WOW what a beauty she was. A few years ago Grand Central Terminal was under consideration of being demolish but I read that public outcry stopped it but I recon that cats with zillion dollar bank roll may try again god for bid. Thank you so much for this video best wishes
Grand central is one the last beauties of such an era in American travel. I don't go there very often as it's basically a tourist Mecca with overpriced stores n ppl taking selfies n doing vlogs, but I would still recommend it to anyone. It's a very beautiful place u gotta see it in person
Thanks! This was very well done and enthralling. I was just in Moynihan Hall on Sunday; there is still a full facade with columns around the block. I don't know what's in the rest of the building beyond Moynihan Hall.
Seeing that sign for Bethlehem inside Penn Station hits hard. Reminds you that it's not just our urban centers that are in decay. Bethlehem Steel helped build modern day New York, and just like Penn Station it is a relic of an age gone where America truly was a dominant world power to be admired.
I was there on a class trip in first grade in 1962. It was a busy place. It was considered a "miracle of progress" that it was being torn down while MSG was being built and the trains kept running. The outcry was so great that when Grand Central was considered for demolition, people stopped it. Jackie Onassis was instrumental in organizing that. Euston Station in London was demolished at about the same time and now has all the charm of a government office.
I also was there in 1962 on a first grade class trip. I went to Newbridge Rd. school in East Meadow ,N.Y. We rode in to Penn. Sta. on a LIRR train from Bellmore Sta. I remember looking up at the glass and steel ceiling of the concourse and the guide saying that the Statue Of Liberty could stand inside.
Even if you're not a train expert like I am somewhat this station was something to look in awe at because of the high end Architecture and decorations built into it.
@@Voucher765 I know a little bit about trains. I've loved them all my life. It seems that making the Farley post office building into a new Penn station is a way of trying to right a wrong, even if it's so many years later. But like I wrote, it was seen as "progress." back then. Funny how that term has fallen out of use.
Carnegie Hall was supposed to be torn down too after Philharmonic Hall at Lincoln Center was completed but thankfully that did not happen mainly due to the intervention of a number of artists who appreciated the hall's perfect acoustics which could never be duplicated.
Why couldn't they do renovation the building to function as the one that replaced it? In Europe they have buildings that have stood for centuries.. yet our citys tear down parts of history.
So the Empire State Building was built in 14 months; when we built the Sears Tower it took us four years. The extra 200 feet did not take us three years. Working time limitations and traffic scheduling imposed by the city were big issues but again not three years worth.
@@denali9449 watch Oliver STones 2014 documentary UKRAINE ON FIRE. you will see America and Nato are the aggressors. Please watch. Don't be like other Dems and RINOs. Educate yourself
My dad took me to NYC when I was age 6 in 1964 and he showed me where they were tearing down Penn Station, it was the first time I ever heard him use the phrase "god damned motherfuckers"
“Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately deserves. Even when we had Penn Station, we couldn’t afford to keep it clean. We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tin-horn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.” - Ada Louise Huxtable, New York Times
The men who built it were greater than its future inhabitants. From the days of Adam, man has been in decline. Which means yesterday’s generation is always better than the current.
Thanks again for a well-produced video. The first locomotive type that pulled trains in and out of the original Penn Station where the dual set of DD-1 coupled locomotives which were powered by 650 Volts DC through means of a third rail system. The locomotives went as far as Manhattan Transfer in New Jersey where there was a change over to steam locomotive power for the journey south. The remaining example of this locomotive type can be seen at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania located at Strasburg. In 1935 the Pennsylvania Railroad had fully electrified the main line between New York’s Penn Station and Washington DC’s Union Station with an 11,000-13,500 Volt AC catenary (overhead wire) system. GG-1 locomotives were assigned the tasks of pulling passenger trains along this route. Two examples can be seen at the same museum, including the original prototype. The electric locomotive pictured in the video is a Milwaukee Road EP-2 that was used on the West Coast.
I have cited Penn Station as the penultimate example of waste to urban renewal multiple times... the usual response? Ummmm.. never heard of it. I can't wait for this to premiere. 🖖🐢👣
@@blahblah6497 Nor just WILLFUL ignorance, but willfully ARROGANT ignorance - contempt for anyone with a different opinion, especially if it's an accurate or truthful one.
Today if Penn Station still existed it would be much like Grand Central Terminal which would mean a huge restoration project and it would be the premier railway station of New York even surpassing Grand Central
Its sad how famous New York City buildings are left to rot, when I visited the museum of natural history in 2009 I was so disappointed when I walked in and was hit by the smell of mold and mildew, and as I walked the halls I saw so many cracks and stress fractures spiderwebbing there way from floor to ceiling I was astounded the place was still standing.
@@0fficialdregs Taxpayers are not supposed to pay to maintain buildings that are not government offices, even then there are too many government workers and buildings. the military is supposed to be paid for by the taxpayer, governments two responsibilities are defense and protection of rights.
@@bike-cave-man2527 Your eurocentrism or ignorance is showing, Americans(Definition: a native or inhabitant of North America or South America) have been around and left snippets of architecture and evidence of existence for at least 15,000 years prior, whether you like their architecture or culture is not my problem. But claiming "no history" is just lazy stupidity.
I don't agree with this dichotomy that Madison Square Garden was the only option vs leaving Penn station dilapidated. In the American Experience episode about building Penn Station, plans were drawn to build a skyscraper hotel at the very heart of the station. It was entirely possible to maintain the outer structure of the station with all it's marble columns and instead build something grand within and above the center of the station to rejuvenate it. As contrary as it sounds, Penn station complex should have been expanded so as it draw in more traffic.
@@emintey By creating a desirable place to visit, Penn Station was originally built as a long distance terminal was not a metro stop. It is very difficult to get around in New York City in a car because of the terrible traffic so if they had potentially built a World Trade Center skyscraper at the station, a lot of passengers would have been generated servicing the building. The idea is not to expand Penn station as a train terminal but to make it an important metro stop. Madison Square Garden effectively did that but they demolished all of the marble walls of the station to build that stadium, which was a bit of a waste in my eyes.
Penn Station NYC was NOT built as a terminal! The East River tunnels connected it to Long Island and LIRR commuter trains, and when the Hellgate Bridge was completed a few years later, it served New England directly. What doomed the station was a combination of factors. One was the loss of long distance passengers to buses, cars, and airlines. Another was that the station required a high level of maintenance. Worst of all, the surrounding neighborhood was in decline, with rising crime and other problems.
Fantastic history of Penn Station! Definitely a few details in there I wasn't aware of. My only suggestion is that you use pictures of the actual types of trains and locomotives used at the location your speaking of. Almost all of the trains you showed never ran anywhere near Penn. Not a huge problem, it just drives me crazy when history shows don't have historically/geographically accurate vehicle examples.
Age nine, I was there the day the picture of the eagle being removed was taken, looking down from a room in the adjacent Sherton hotel. Even at that age, I felt quite sad, as if I was, again, at another funeral.
Your treatments of historic architecture are very interesting. For Penna. Station, could you add more pictures of the station in its later dirty and deteriorated state? They would bring home your point well.
Imagine being born in New York in the 1880’s. You were 20 years old traveling around the country from penn station which was just built, then no over the decades the world changes drastically in the 20th century and that train station symbolizes the change.
Regards decay, Londons Saint Pancras station faced very very similar problems, and similar calls to demolish it. Fortunately, and for a change, it would eventually find a new lease of life as the terminus for the Eurotunnel trains, and much as it took a billion dollar plus renovation, is today both beautiful and along with renovated Kings Cross station right next door, thriving. The whole area fell into decay in the 70s and 80s but today it’s been reclaimed by developers to be a thriving part of London. Left, the same would have happened to Penn station no doubt.
I just shared an article about the demolition of this beautiful Penn Station! Was searching for other videos and came up on your reminder! Looking forward to watching your video! 🎥👍
Grand Central TERMINAL. Saving GCT was the work of many, but Jacqueline Kennedy led the way. Her efforts not only saved the Terminal but created the historic building designation that saved others. No such designation existed in NYC before.
Great Video, the immortal Vincent Scully said “One entered the city like a god. One scuttles in now like a rat.” MUCH LOVE FROM THE BRONX , THE LAST OF THE REAL CITY
What a GREAT VIDEO!!!! Loved this and what you said about cities and where we are at. It’s a shame but based on what you said about Penn Station and how far it deteriorated, it would be hard to save it but it was a GRAND Building. Love buildings like that…buildings build back then had characters/personalities to them vs now, it’s just blah.
And yet it doesn't have to be. We have materials today that architects could only dream of having at their disposal but instead we're given glass boxes or obscene structures (Canadas building in Toronto). If we don't like the design, its bc we're too dumb to appreciate its 'mystique'. I'm so deflated w what the architecture community has been rolling out.
To experience the confusing, chaotic underground rathole maze that replaced Penn Station is to truly live a descent into hell. A new annex across 8th ave has now opened , but its a pale comparison to the masterpiece that once was Penn Station.
Very well done. A correction if I may - NYC made trains go electric in 1908 due to a horrible accident in the Park Av Tunnel to/from Grand Central Terminal caused by steam engine smoke obscuring signals. I used to go to work with my Dad on Saturdays in the 60's. We'd come out of the Lincoln Tunnel to go Downtown and we'd pass Penn Station on its west side. I remember all the train shed windows being clouded out by paint, smoke or whatever and the copper green color of the beams. I remember it being torn down. One positive did come out of Penn Station's untimely destruction. The NYC Landmarks laws and Commission. Many historic buildings such as Grand Central Terminal have been saved by these laws. Unfortunately this grand structure was the sacrificial lamb that allowed other NYC Treasures to be saved in the following decades.
The first trains which served Pennslvania Station were actually LIRR commuter trains which began operation in September 1910. Long distance PRR trains started using the station the following November.
Another thing- the company that demolished the station, The Lipsett company also scrapped the ocean liner the Normandie in 1947. And some of the eagles are at the station at Garrison, New York, easily reached by a train from Grand Central on the Metro-North. At least they were there about 25 years ago.
The last part I truly agree, the architecture does make the population rather proud instilling it a sense of shared history, the more the buildings are old and magnificent the more the population is prone to live up to it. We are complex individuals and individually even more so but what makes us click is to see complex things around us, detailed particulars, rich ornaments and so on... we remeber certain aspects of that building. In a city of all boxes where does our imagination go? Nowehere, it's reflecte by the glass of skyscrapers...
The mighty Pennsylvania Railroad went into the red for the first time in 1946. By the late '50s, they were hemorrhaging money across the board. Passenger service ran with deficits for years and were subsidized by the parent company. Add the Interstate and America's love of automobiles, the passenger service (particularly inter-city service) went on full life support. One of the Pennsylvania Railroad's remedies the help stop the bleeding was to sell the air rights above the station property. It was too little too late. New York Central were experiencing the same problems. NYC almost did the same thing to Grand Central Terminal.
I just found this youtube channel and subcribed, my favourite PBS American Experience video for years has been The Rise and Fall of Pennsylvania Station, can't believe I'm here just in time for this premiere, I want the official PBS dvd of this, but I'm in Australia, and they won't deliver to me here.
Perhaps this excellent video could be completed by continuing the story to Penn Station's renovation and plans for future improvements. Comparing the present version even to Union Stations in NJ, PA and DC gives NYC a black eye.
I bet it would have been neat to see the original Penn Station back in it's glory. Go into MSG (Penn Station) now and it is very disappointing. I will tell you I am liking the new Moynihan Train Hall (across the street from MSG). I am hoping they will open new stores after this pandemic.
It is disappointing to see such a masterpiece brought to the ground. As you said we began to lose tradition. With that we lost great and beautiful architecture. Everything is bland and looks the same anymore.
As much as I love MSG and my Knicks, its ridiculous that we allowed the architectural marvel that is Penn Station to be demolished. The Knicks could play someone else. MSG is replaceable. Penn Station is not.
I’m from England and we have plenty of old buildings. I stayed in a hotel directly opposite Penn and went in the postal section there, I was taking photos as it was Sunday and empty but open, I thought it was beautiful, was also taking more photos at subway level. I came home saying that hat Grand Central gets all the attention but Penn is more stunning.
It's quite interesting but one of the original designs of Penn Station included and office tower, as at least one of the original designs of Grand Central did. Penn Station, like so many other historical buildings could have been saved and reused for other, more modern purposes. The irony of Penn Station is that train travel, both for long distance and commuter services is much more economical and ecologically friendly than either road or air transportation and is well on its way for a huge comeback in the future. What's left of Penn Station today handles huge and growing crowds. The only good thing that happened because of Penn Station's sickening destruction was that it spurred historic preservation and ultimately saved many priceless buildings, big and small.
I loved this post. It always made me sad to think they demolished it - but after watching your vid... guess I can understand. The era of all the great train stations around the country is past. Makes me sad. Thanks for the vid.
The era for building great train stations may be past, but there are many great train stations still in daily use in Los Angeles, Chicago, Sacramento, Denver, DC, Portland and Seattle etc.
This is why American’s come to Europe and look at things centuries old in awe. The house I own is older than Penn Station. Sad that there was no desire to remodel what was already there, think the Millennium Dome becoming the O2. Manchester managed to change one of its stations into an exhibition centre and old mills around the first ever railway station, into a museum.
The destruction of Penn Station was a loss of unimaginable proportions to the city of New York and more broadly to the United States. The only comparable tragedy would be the demotion of The Empire State Building or the Chrysler Building. It also made the platform level of the station one of the grottiest in the world more befitting an impoverished third world country.
Times Square was a seedy place once as well, so I don't buy that it had to go. As someone else already wrote, this could have been turned into other stores, businesses, etc. We let areas run down when we see no profit from them. Sadly I don't believe that this will change
I live near Milwaukee, a city that lost its 2 main train stations (Milwaukee Road Everett Street Depot and Chicago and Northwestern Lake Front Depot) from the same era. Though not as large and majestic as Penn Station, both were gorgeous in their own way and suffered the same fate. Not to mention all the lost stations a little further south in Chicago. America's record for preservation of these beautiful buildings is downright appalling. I guess this is what they call progress.
I visited Penn Station as a child though I only remember it as being cavernous as I was young. It appears that it was the decline of railroads more than anything else that doomed it making it costly to maintain and to protect from the derelicts that may have congregated there. I agree that it was probably best to see it go sadly. Still in New York there is Grand Central Station which while not as large and grand is magnificent and is viable. There is a whole lot in New York that is preserved and viable, look at the grand bridges built around the turn of the century, the Woolworth Building, the Empire State and the Chrysler Building and on and on.
I got to see it as well, in January 1964; my mom took me there and told me to remember it, as it wouldn’t be around the next time we returned. Like you, I predominately remember it as cavernous and gray. I wish I could have been older at the time, so I could have appreciated it more.
Great video. Been to New York many times and love it. Seeing the photos of Penn Station, you know it could have been saved, if the will had been there. Loved the comments about the class of travellers today. We are often appalled by the condition of people in airports, malls and train stations. In defence of New York today, my wife and I have often remarked on how well dressed most of the subway patrons are. We even came up with a quick way of gauging the standard of dress, which we have used around the world. It's the "Shoe Survey". Next time you're on public transport, have a glance around at the state and standard of the travellersshoes (your own included). It's an excellent indicator. My parents always instilled in us that being neatly dressed and clean when you went out in public was a sign of respect to others, not the glorification of self.
The will was there, the city officials that could have put their foot down did not despite the public outcry. From Wikipedia: Despite large public opposition to Penn Station's demolition, the New York City Department of City Planning voted in January 1963 to start demolishing the station that summer.
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I'm so glad we still have Union Station in Toronto, and the Toronto, Hamilton and Buffalo station in Hamilton also known as the Go station, such beautiful places
Meanwhile the train station in Buffalo is just a tiny shack about the size of my bathroom and a platform. I mean, there's still the Central Terminal, it's been been abandoned for years and is in such a terrible neighborhood that I've never gone to see it in person.
As rail fan I would have loved to have been able to see old Penn Station, but I'm torn. As a sports fan, the two most special moments I remember when it comes to venues were the first time I walked out into the stands and saw Wrigley Field, and the first time I saw a game at Madison Square Garden.
In my eyes, this was, and still is, a very poor tradeoff. The only way the destruction of Penn Station in favor of MSG is favorable is if the teams that use it can win championships on a consistent basis. But the Knicks and Rangers couldn't. Thus to me, its a terrible tradeoff.
The price of keeping things like this will never be too high. Imagine if Italy had torn down the Colosseum to make way for a parking lot or to build a modern Soccer stadium, imagine if Greece gad torn down the Acropolis and put up an ugly modern office building, imagine if all of our ancestors had torn down the history around them all over the world, we would be pissed. We were pissed when the Taliban blew up the Buddhas of Bamyan, we were pissed when ISIS destroyed Roman statues and monuments in Palmyra, and we were pissed when Ansar Dine destroyed ancient temples and artifacts in Timbuktu. Why are we not pissed when real estate developers and City Councils approve the destruction of American monuments?
The Pennsylvania Railroad had its own severe financial difficulties in the late 1950's - early 1960's brought in part by heavily government subsidized highway and airplane competition. Sadly, the wanton destruction of Pennsylvania Station so alarmed New Yorkers that great efforts were put forth to save Grand Central Terminal. The maintenance of so colossal a structure falls largely on MTA, a publicly funded agency. Prior to the recent pandemic, passage of trains through the North River Tunnels ran at absolute capacity during rush hours. 'Penn Station' seemed busier than ever!
Recently, just last year, the Moynihan Station was just completed and I was there days later because I recently got Covid-19 for the second time in December 2020
We trade our heritage for trinkets.
And from your intro you inflate your very existence... ".. Centuries.."
I’m surprised you didn’t mention the new second Penn Station (Moynihan Train Hall) that opened early this year, across the street in the James A. Farley Building (USPS). The new Station is in a building, that was created by the same people that made the original Pennsylvania Station.
*You were a bit harsh there on NYC. We could imagine the original Penn Station being turned into a giant mall. But by this era it would be vacant again. I came to the conclusion that the best designs are the ones that can be converted into new uses repeatedly. Most of the other designs have to go to keep the city healthy. Right? The real crime is that I can't find color photos of Penn. Now about PJs on planes - the airlines were regulated and kept expensive so that only well-to-do could fly. After de-regulation more people could fly. Just like the train industry before it - when anyone could ride (**5:01**).*
@@hulkhatepunybanner Bold comments lessen credibility.
You should do one on concrete city in nanticoke PA it's an old poured frame company town from the early 1900s
If Penn Station could have survived into the '90s, beyond the worst of the more general decay the city was suffering from, it would surely have been an icon of present day New York. Just as Grand Central Terminal still is. It's an eternal shame it never got that chance.
Grand Central still exists due to Jacqueline Kennedy helping out (it too was slated for demolition). There’s a plaque in memory of what she did to preserve it.
Rudy would have made sure there was NO CRIME...just like how he saved the rest of the city!
There is one detail everyone is forgetting… the station is owned by Amtrak.
Given what happened to Washington Union Station before it was restored… Penn station would have been up Shit’s creek without a boat, let along a paddle.
Hell, Grand Central was saved, and was still a mess until the mid 90s.
Same for the singer tower
Rudy was a lousy mayor and a worse human being.
If it had survived until today's New York City, it would undoubtedly had been preserved and would have been beautiful- much like modern Grand Central.
far superior to grand central.
"The tragedy is that our own times not only could not produce such a building, but cannot even maintain it." I think that's just as true today, if not more so. I think there are still plenty of old buildings around New York and elsewhere that may meet with the same fate.
Building covered in stone with beautiful sculptures built in 13 months now it takes twice as long to erect bland glass cube.
ever heard of the great exhibition? if that was around today i could not even begin tot hink how much money it would cost to maintain
That's how everything is now, tv breaks, buy a new one, car, appliances same, things used to be made worth repairing
Unless you can afford to maintain a grand structure, don’t build it in the first place.
@@timtebowsleftarm5368
Hindsight is a beast.
You are correct.
But there was no way of knowing that when it was built.
Imagine the money and back room deals afforded to the creators of access to the rest of America.
They overbuilt because they had the dough.
Future maintenance?
That’s the other guys problem.
OUTSTANDING PIECE, SIR! You did an excellent review on the history of the station, and this native NYer salutes you! I am very glad the UA-cam algorithm introduced your work to me via your Singer Building video. Have been subscribed since then, and as I commented in that one, I am eagerly reviewing your other videos.
Incidentally, the destruction of Penn station was largely what saved Grand Central Terminal. The same fate would have befallen that jewel of urban architecture, but fortunately many influential people in NYC (Jackie Kennedy-Onassis amongst them) remembered Penn's ignominious end, and vowed never to have it repeated.
I had the grand pleasure of walking through it in 1960 as a child and even then I felt its greatness. So sad it was not saved. Thanks to mrs. Kennedy the same faith did not happen to the grand central station on 42nd street.
You're very lucky!!!! I am jealous
Possibly the most tragic loss in the history of historic preservation. However, its death wasn’t in vain. It probably played the biggest role in kickstarting the preservation movement in the second half of the 60’s, which has since saved countless landmarks across the nation, like Grand Central Terminal and the Coney Island Cyclone in New York alone.
Sadly the powers that be in Manhattan just see dollar signs when buildings don't make enough money & are far to quick to demolish them the SINGER Building is another one that was just amazing. I stated researching Manhattan Architecture some years back as I have such a passion for great old buildings and Manhattan has LOST A GREAT DEAL over the years. Pennsylvania Station is one of them WOW what a beauty she was. A few years ago Grand Central Terminal was under consideration of being demolish but I read that public outcry stopped it but I recon that cats with zillion dollar bank roll may try again god for bid. Thank you so much for this video best wishes
Notre dame burns and the fundraising takes less than a week. America dilapidates and we just bulldoze for NEWER and BETTER of course /s
@@Niagara716 Rent out a room?
Grand central is one the last beauties of such an era in American travel. I don't go there very often as it's basically a tourist Mecca with overpriced stores n ppl taking selfies n doing vlogs, but I would still recommend it to anyone. It's a very beautiful place u gotta see it in person
When classical things get destroyed it's almost like a dream to see them again. In Europe they preversed everything they can.
So you’re okay with relying on old technology? Old ideas and old energy?
Thanks! This was very well done and enthralling. I was just in Moynihan Hall on Sunday; there is still a full facade with columns around the block. I don't know what's in the rest of the building beyond Moynihan Hall.
Seeing that sign for Bethlehem inside Penn Station hits hard. Reminds you that it's not just our urban centers that are in decay. Bethlehem Steel helped build modern day New York, and just like Penn Station it is a relic of an age gone where America truly was a dominant world power to be admired.
I was there on a class trip in first grade in 1962. It was a busy place. It was considered a "miracle of progress" that it was being torn down while MSG was being built and the trains kept running. The outcry was so great that when Grand Central was considered for demolition, people stopped it. Jackie Onassis was instrumental in organizing that. Euston Station in London was demolished at about the same time and now has all the charm of a government office.
The sixties really were a monstrous time in architecture.
I also was there in 1962 on a first grade class trip. I went to Newbridge Rd. school in East Meadow ,N.Y. We rode in to Penn. Sta. on a LIRR train from Bellmore Sta. I remember looking up at the glass and steel ceiling of the concourse and the guide saying that the Statue Of Liberty could stand inside.
Even if you're not a train expert like I am somewhat this station was something to look in awe at because of the high end Architecture and decorations built into it.
@@Voucher765 I know a little bit about trains. I've loved them all my life. It seems that making the Farley post office building into a new Penn station is a way of trying to right a wrong, even if it's so many years later. But like I wrote, it was seen as "progress." back then. Funny how that term has fallen out of use.
Carnegie Hall was supposed to be torn down too after Philharmonic Hall at Lincoln Center was completed but thankfully that did not happen mainly due to the intervention of a number of artists who appreciated the hall's perfect acoustics which could never be duplicated.
Why couldn't they do renovation the building to function as the one that replaced it? In Europe they have buildings that have stood for centuries.. yet our citys tear down parts of history.
I agree with you. Who knows what they are covering up? It was probably pure greed!!
because that's a private commercial building which lost it's use
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And they have run out of room. Tit for tat.
@@willchristie2650 " just self-centered individuals selfishly seeking their best interest"
Perfect description of the GOP.
Fantastic look at the life of Penn Station. I remember my parents dressing me up to fly when I was a boy. Interesting observation.
Most underrated Channel on UA-cam great video keep up the good work
How on earth could they build the Penn station in only 13 months for over 100 years ago, even today it couldn't be done in that time.
Different regulations really.
I know that really shook me as well, 13 months is incredible, does that include the carvings of all the ornaments and stone pillars I wonder?
So the Empire State Building was built in 14 months; when we built the Sears Tower it took us four years. The extra 200 feet did not take us three years. Working time limitations and traffic scheduling imposed by the city were big issues but again not three years worth.
I don't really believe that.
No way !
Not even with today's technology.....not that it's any better.
@@denali9449 watch Oliver STones 2014 documentary UKRAINE ON FIRE. you will see America and Nato are the aggressors. Please watch. Don't be like other Dems and RINOs. Educate yourself
My dad took me to NYC when I was age 6 in 1964 and he showed me where they were tearing down Penn Station, it was the first time I ever heard him use the phrase "god damned motherfuckers"
“Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately deserves. Even when we had Penn Station, we couldn’t afford to keep it clean. We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tin-horn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.” - Ada Louise Huxtable, New York Times
wonderful quote, I've seen it in other histories of Penn Station; ALH was a wonderful architecture critic - and a most compelling writer.
i remember that in the History channel and American Experience videos
tin cans and crappy glass that cost a fortune to heat in winter and keep cool during summer
The men who built it were greater than its future inhabitants.
From the days of Adam, man has been in decline.
Which means yesterday’s generation is always better than the current.
Thanks again for a well-produced video.
The first locomotive type that pulled trains in and out of the original Penn Station where the dual set of DD-1 coupled locomotives which were powered by 650 Volts DC through means of a third rail system. The locomotives went as far as Manhattan Transfer in New Jersey where there was a change over to steam locomotive power for the journey south. The remaining example of this locomotive type can be seen at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania located at Strasburg. In 1935 the Pennsylvania Railroad had fully electrified the main line between New York’s Penn Station and Washington DC’s Union Station with an 11,000-13,500 Volt AC catenary (overhead wire) system. GG-1 locomotives were assigned the tasks of pulling passenger trains along this route. Two examples can be seen at the same museum, including the original prototype. The electric locomotive pictured in the video is a Milwaukee Road EP-2 that was used on the West Coast.
I have cited Penn Station as the penultimate example of waste to urban renewal multiple times... the usual response? Ummmm.. never heard of it. I can't wait for this to premiere. 🖖🐢👣
See you tomorrow!
The Real pandemic is WILLFUL IGNORANCE
@@blahblah6497 Nor just WILLFUL ignorance, but willfully ARROGANT ignorance - contempt for anyone with a different opinion, especially if it's an accurate or truthful one.
@@ITSHISTORY
_When cities demolish monuments and replace them with eyesores..._ (12:12)
*Cue aerial shot of Atlanta*
@Messiahs by the sackful
_Penultimate_ means _next-to-last._ You just mean _ultimate._
Today if Penn Station still existed it would be much like Grand Central Terminal which would mean a huge restoration project and it would be the premier railway station of New York even surpassing Grand Central
Its sad how famous New York City buildings are left to rot, when I visited the museum of natural history in 2009 I was so disappointed when I walked in and was hit by the smell of mold and mildew, and as I walked the halls I saw so many cracks and stress fractures spiderwebbing there way from floor to ceiling I was astounded the place was still standing.
well when the most of our national budget is for the military, that is result of that
If you felt that badly why didn't you start a fundraising effort to help save the old building? Waiting for daddy government?
@@0fficialdregs Taxpayers are not supposed to pay to maintain buildings that are not government offices, even then there are too many government workers and buildings. the military is supposed to be paid for by the taxpayer, governments two responsibilities are defense and protection of rights.
@@Right-Is-Right k
@@Right-Is-Right Facts
"It had lost it's charm..."
Really? That's a matter of taste. There are things worth preserving, no matter the cost.
The design of old Penn Station was based on the Pantheon in Rome!! 2,000 years worth of charm isn't enough!!?!?
@@bike-cave-man2527 Your eurocentrism or ignorance is showing, Americans(Definition: a native or inhabitant of North America or South America) have been around and left snippets of architecture and evidence of existence for at least 15,000 years prior, whether you like their architecture or culture is not my problem. But claiming "no history" is just lazy stupidity.
@@pavelow235
Bah wah !
Eurocentric ? Blah blah blah
Marxist revisionism ?....I knew it !
By lost it's charm he meant it was not being used as much for being a train station and more a toilet and impromptu homeless shelter.
I don't agree with this dichotomy that Madison Square Garden was the only option vs leaving Penn station dilapidated. In the American Experience episode about building Penn Station, plans were drawn to build a skyscraper hotel at the very heart of the station. It was entirely possible to maintain the outer structure of the station with all it's marble columns and instead build something grand within and above the center of the station to rejuvenate it. As contrary as it sounds, Penn station complex should have been expanded so as it draw in more traffic.
How can you draw in more traffic when railroad travel itself was in permanent decline?
@@emintey By creating a desirable place to visit, Penn Station was originally built as a long distance terminal was not a metro stop. It is very difficult to get around in New York City in a car because of the terrible traffic so if they had potentially built a World Trade Center skyscraper at the station, a lot of passengers would have been generated servicing the building. The idea is not to expand Penn station as a train terminal but to make it an important metro stop. Madison Square Garden effectively did that but they demolished all of the marble walls of the station to build that stadium, which was a bit of a waste in my eyes.
8:36 The air rights were sold in 1954, so that nixed any possibility of a skyscraper being built on the site.
@@TheGuyThatEveryoneIgnores So the people who owned the air right can't build skyscrapers on the site? Why?
Penn Station NYC was NOT built as a terminal! The East River tunnels connected it to Long Island and LIRR commuter trains, and when the Hellgate Bridge was completed a few years later, it served New England directly.
What doomed the station was a combination of factors. One was the loss of long distance passengers to buses, cars, and airlines. Another was that the station required a high level of maintenance. Worst of all, the surrounding neighborhood was in decline, with rising crime and other problems.
Grand Central Station pales in comparison to the grandeur of old Pennsylvania Station.
Fantastic history of Penn Station! Definitely a few details in there I wasn't aware of. My only suggestion is that you use pictures of the actual types of trains and locomotives used at the location your speaking of. Almost all of the trains you showed never ran anywhere near Penn. Not a huge problem, it just drives me crazy when history shows don't have historically/geographically accurate vehicle examples.
Ever heard of those GG1s which were staples of the Pennsylvania RR's electric locomotive fleet.
Age nine, I was there the day the picture of the eagle being removed was taken, looking down from a room in the adjacent Sherton hotel. Even at that age, I felt quite sad, as if I was, again, at another funeral.
I got to say, I'm loving the direction of the new content. Keep it up
Your treatments of historic architecture are very interesting. For Penna. Station, could you add more pictures of the station in its later dirty and deteriorated state? They would bring home your point well.
Imagine being born in New York in the 1880’s. You were 20 years old traveling around the country from penn station which was just built, then no over the decades the world changes drastically in the 20th century and that train station symbolizes the change.
One man Irving Berlin who was a songwriter did
The original Penn Station stood for only 53 years. Plenty of New Yorkers got to see it built and demolished within their own lifetime.
Regards decay, Londons Saint Pancras station faced very very similar problems, and similar calls to demolish it. Fortunately, and for a change, it would eventually find a new lease of life as the terminus for the Eurotunnel trains, and much as it took a billion dollar plus renovation, is today both beautiful and along with renovated Kings Cross station right next door, thriving. The whole area fell into decay in the 70s and 80s but today it’s been reclaimed by developers to be a thriving part of London. Left, the same would have happened to Penn station no doubt.
Beautifully done. The epilogue says it all.
I just shared an article about the demolition of this beautiful Penn Station! Was searching for other videos and came up on your reminder! Looking forward to watching your video! 🎥👍
IF IT WAS NOT FOR JACKIE KENNEDY , THIS WOULD HAPPEN TO GRAND CENTRAL STATION!!!!
Grand Central TERMINAL.
Saving GCT was the work of many, but Jacqueline Kennedy led the way. Her efforts not only saved the Terminal but created the historic building designation that saved others. No such designation existed in NYC before.
The architect Phillip Johnson was also instrumental in saving GCT
The Best part was ur Small monologue at the end there Very beautiful very True we are nothing without traditions
Great Video, the immortal Vincent Scully said “One entered the city like a god. One scuttles in now like a rat.” MUCH LOVE FROM THE BRONX , THE LAST OF THE REAL CITY
Who was he talking about in that quote, Pete Rose?
I at first thought Vin Scully the Dodgers sportcaster from 1950 to 2016.
What a GREAT VIDEO!!!! Loved this and what you said about cities and where we are at. It’s a shame but based on what you said about Penn Station and how far it deteriorated, it would be hard to save it but it was a GRAND Building. Love buildings like that…buildings build back then had characters/personalities to them vs now, it’s just blah.
And yet it doesn't have to be. We have materials today that architects could only dream of having at their disposal but instead we're given glass boxes or obscene structures (Canadas building in Toronto). If we don't like the design, its bc we're too dumb to appreciate its 'mystique'. I'm so deflated w what the architecture community has been rolling out.
To experience the confusing, chaotic underground rathole maze that replaced Penn Station is to truly live a descent into hell. A new annex across 8th ave has now opened , but its a pale comparison to the masterpiece that once was Penn Station.
Very well done. A correction if I may - NYC made trains go electric in 1908 due to a horrible accident in the Park Av Tunnel to/from Grand Central Terminal caused by steam engine smoke obscuring signals. I used to go to work with my Dad on Saturdays in the 60's. We'd come out of the Lincoln Tunnel to go Downtown and we'd pass Penn Station on its west side. I remember all the train shed windows being clouded out by paint, smoke or whatever and the copper green color of the beams. I remember it being torn down.
One positive did come out of Penn Station's untimely destruction. The NYC Landmarks laws and Commission. Many historic buildings such as Grand Central Terminal have been saved by these laws. Unfortunately this grand structure was the sacrificial lamb that allowed other NYC Treasures to be saved in the following decades.
The first trains which served Pennslvania Station were actually LIRR commuter trains which began operation in September 1910. Long distance PRR trains started using the station the following November.
It truly was beautiful. Great video!
Another thing- the company that demolished the station, The Lipsett company also scrapped the ocean liner the Normandie in 1947. And some of the eagles are at the station at Garrison, New York, easily reached by a train from Grand Central on the Metro-North. At least they were there about 25 years ago.
Fun fact, garrison New York train station was where the train scenes in Hello Dolly were filmed.
@@benwetzel8449 I never saw that movie, but weren't there scenes filmed on an old steam tugboat?
@@lawrencelewis2592 no, I think that’s a different movie
@@benwetzel8449 Oh- my mistake. I never much liked Barbra anyway.
The last part I truly agree, the architecture does make the population rather proud instilling it a sense of shared history, the more the buildings are old and magnificent the more the population is prone to live up to it. We are complex individuals and individually even more so but what makes us click is to see complex things around us, detailed particulars, rich ornaments and so on... we remeber certain aspects of that building. In a city of all boxes where does our imagination go? Nowehere, it's reflecte by the glass of skyscrapers...
The mighty Pennsylvania Railroad went into the red for the first time in 1946. By the late '50s, they were hemorrhaging money across the board. Passenger service ran with deficits for years and were subsidized by the parent company. Add the Interstate and America's love of automobiles, the passenger service (particularly inter-city service) went on full life support. One of the Pennsylvania Railroad's remedies the help stop the bleeding was to sell the air rights above the station property. It was too little too late. New York Central were experiencing the same problems. NYC almost did the same thing to Grand Central Terminal.
I just found this youtube channel and subcribed, my favourite PBS American Experience video for years has been The Rise and Fall of Pennsylvania Station, can't believe I'm here just in time for this premiere, I want the official PBS dvd of this, but I'm in Australia, and they won't deliver to me here.
This building was torn down way before i was born, but yet i miss this building more than any other that doesn’t exist anymore.
Perhaps this excellent video could be completed by continuing the story to Penn Station's renovation and plans for future improvements. Comparing the present version even to Union Stations in NJ, PA and DC gives NYC a black eye.
Or Grand Central Terminal...
One of my new favorite channels, good job 👍
I bet it would have been neat to see the original Penn Station back in it's glory. Go into MSG (Penn Station) now and it is very disappointing. I will tell you I am liking the new Moynihan Train Hall (across the street from MSG). I am hoping they will open new stores after this pandemic.
well the end left me speechless. very good video. thank you
I always wondered what happened to the clocks.
Oh wow, as someone from Kansas City I had no clue we had a part of Penn Station.
It is disappointing to see such a masterpiece brought to the ground. As you said we began to lose tradition. With that we lost great and beautiful architecture. Everything is bland and looks the same anymore.
That was a SUPER interesting video.
I highly recommend the rise and fall of penn station from PBS series, American Experience
“Progression is the enemy of tradition” I’ve never heard that before and it really hit hard, I love tradition but many things must progress
Cancer also " progresses".
Agreed. Politically speaking, I am extremely progressive, but that line about foundations hit hard.
Notice how we as humans progress from tradition people become pieces of shit? Progress erodes what it means to have character and soul.
Progression can take many forms just like it was called progression when native americans were being converted to society or else exterminated.
@@kirbywaite1586 "healing" is also a "progress".
As much as I love MSG and my Knicks, its ridiculous that we allowed the architectural marvel that is Penn Station to be demolished. The Knicks could play someone else. MSG is replaceable. Penn Station is not.
agreed and the garden you see is the 3rd version so they could of built the venue elsewhere if the PRR would of kept the station
So you’d rather have the knicks be moved to gridlocked NewJersey and play in the IZOD center?
I’m from England and we have plenty of old buildings. I stayed in a hotel directly opposite Penn and went in the postal section there, I was taking photos as it was Sunday and empty but open, I thought it was beautiful, was also taking more photos at subway level. I came home saying that hat Grand Central gets all the attention but Penn is more stunning.
It's quite interesting but one of the original designs of Penn Station included and office tower, as at least one of the original designs of Grand Central did. Penn Station, like so many other historical buildings could have been saved and reused for other, more modern purposes. The irony of Penn Station is that train travel, both for long distance and commuter services is much more economical and ecologically friendly than either road or air transportation and is well on its way for a huge comeback in the future. What's left of Penn Station today handles huge and growing crowds. The only good thing that happened because of Penn Station's sickening destruction was that it spurred historic preservation and ultimately saved many priceless buildings, big and small.
Great share🎉🎉🎉
Beautiful conclusion
I loved this post. It always made me sad to think they demolished it - but after watching your vid... guess I can understand. The era of all the great train stations around the country is past. Makes me sad. Thanks for the vid.
The era for building great train stations may be past, but there are many great train stations still in daily use in Los Angeles, Chicago, Sacramento, Denver, DC, Portland and Seattle etc.
Excellent watch! Thank you.
This is why American’s come to Europe and look at things centuries old in awe. The house I own is older than Penn Station.
Sad that there was no desire to remodel what was already there, think the Millennium Dome becoming the O2. Manchester managed to change one of its stations into an exhibition centre and old mills around the first ever railway station, into a museum.
The fact they could dig a tunnel under a huge river over a hundred years ago kinda blows my mind.
For me, it was either the Penn Station or Grand Central. I don't think there were ways to preserve both of them, even if we wished it.
The destruction of Penn Station was a loss of unimaginable proportions to the city of New York and more broadly to the United States. The only comparable tragedy would be the demotion of The Empire State Building or the Chrysler Building. It also made the platform level of the station one of the grottiest in the world more befitting an impoverished third world country.
There are secret areas in the Station that were important in WWII
Times Square was a seedy place once as well, so I don't buy that it had to go. As someone else already wrote, this could have been turned into other stores, businesses, etc. We let areas run down when we see no profit from them. Sadly I don't believe that this will change
I liked your closing comments.
For one of the last looks at Penn Station stream the 1964 film, Dear Heart.
I live near Milwaukee, a city that lost its 2 main train stations (Milwaukee Road Everett Street Depot and Chicago and Northwestern Lake Front Depot) from the same era. Though not as large and majestic as Penn Station, both were gorgeous in their own way and suffered the same fate. Not to mention all the lost stations a little further south in Chicago. America's record for preservation of these beautiful buildings is downright appalling. I guess this is what they call progress.
In the 60s they took down this beautiful building and the Singer Tower as well.
Been loving these
As a New Yorker, I just want to say that Penn Station today, in fact, is still seedy.
I visited Penn Station as a child though I only remember it as being cavernous as I was young. It appears that it was the decline of railroads more than anything else that doomed it making it costly to maintain and to protect from the derelicts that may have congregated there. I agree that it was probably best to see it go sadly. Still in New York there is Grand Central Station which while not as large and grand is magnificent and is viable. There is a whole lot in New York that is preserved and viable, look at the grand bridges built around the turn of the century, the Woolworth Building, the Empire State and the Chrysler Building and on and on.
I got to see it as well, in January 1964; my mom took me there and told me to remember it, as it wouldn’t be around the next time we returned. Like you, I predominately remember it as cavernous and gray. I wish I could have been older at the time, so I could have appreciated it more.
@Edwin Mintey Don't blame poor people for Penn Station destruction, blame people like Robert Moses.
Just found your channel and subbed.Great content!.
Great video. Been to New York many times and love it. Seeing the photos of Penn Station, you know it could have been saved, if the will had been there.
Loved the comments about the class of travellers today. We are often appalled by the condition of people in airports, malls and train stations. In defence of New York today, my wife and I have often remarked on how well dressed most of the subway patrons are. We even came up with a quick way of gauging the standard of dress, which we have used around the world. It's the "Shoe Survey". Next time you're on public transport, have a glance around at the state and standard of the travellersshoes (your own included). It's an excellent indicator.
My parents always instilled in us that being neatly dressed and clean when you went out in public was a sign of respect to others, not the glorification of self.
When I read "how well dressed most of the subway patrons are", I immediately thought of the barefoot people I have seen on the NYC subway trains. 😐
The will was there, the city officials that could have put their foot down did not despite the public outcry.
From Wikipedia: Despite large public opposition to Penn Station's demolition, the New York City Department of City Planning voted in January 1963 to start demolishing the station that summer.
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I'm so glad we still have Union Station in Toronto, and the Toronto, Hamilton and Buffalo station in Hamilton also known as the Go station, such beautiful places
Union station in washington dc is beautiful too
Meanwhile the train station in Buffalo is just a tiny shack about the size of my bathroom and a platform. I mean, there's still the Central Terminal, it's been been abandoned for years and is in such a terrible neighborhood that I've never gone to see it in person.
Just sad how they tore down so many beautiful buildings.
As rail fan I would have loved to have been able to see old Penn Station, but I'm torn. As a sports fan, the two most special moments I remember when it comes to venues were the first time I walked out into the stands and saw Wrigley Field, and the first time I saw a game at Madison Square Garden.
In my eyes, this was, and still is, a very poor tradeoff. The only way the destruction of Penn Station in favor of MSG is favorable is if the teams that use it can win championships on a consistent basis. But the Knicks and Rangers couldn't. Thus to me, its a terrible tradeoff.
You are a Philosopher! Great Vid!
The opening of Moynihan Station in January tries to recapture the grandeur that the old Penn Station once had.
I dead ass didn’t know this. Thanks you 👍🏾
What an awesome place I'm pretty sure a lot of scenes from old movies were shot there
Really such as?
@@chatteyj 'The Clock' (1945) with Judy Garland and Robert Walker
@@oldRoyaltypewriter Thanks strangers on a train is another I gather which I have on dvd i think.
If interested learn more , the Transit Musuem in downtown Brookyn, NY has pictures and prints of the older station and has classes, older Trains.
The price of keeping things like this will never be too high. Imagine if Italy had torn down the Colosseum to make way for a parking lot or to build a modern Soccer stadium, imagine if Greece gad torn down the Acropolis and put up an ugly modern office building, imagine if all of our ancestors had torn down the history around them all over the world, we would be pissed. We were pissed when the Taliban blew up the Buddhas of Bamyan, we were pissed when ISIS destroyed Roman statues and monuments in Palmyra, and we were pissed when Ansar Dine destroyed ancient temples and artifacts in Timbuktu. Why are we not pissed when real estate developers and City Councils approve the destruction of American monuments?
4 of the eagles are on the Market St Bridge over the Schuylkill River in Philadelphia, PA.
The Pennsylvania Railroad had its own severe financial difficulties in the late 1950's - early 1960's brought in part by heavily government subsidized highway and airplane competition. Sadly, the wanton destruction of Pennsylvania Station so alarmed New Yorkers that great efforts were put forth to save Grand Central Terminal. The maintenance of so colossal a structure falls largely on MTA, a publicly funded agency. Prior to the recent pandemic, passage of trains through the North River Tunnels ran at absolute capacity during rush hours. 'Penn Station' seemed busier than ever!
10:24 The eagle looks proud. 10:33 The eagle looks scared and sad
Only you could make me cry about the demolition of a train station
It broke my heart to have seen it being demolished back then. If not for Jackie O Gran central would of gone the same route. Miss the old NY.
Recently, just last year, the Moynihan Station was just completed and I was there days later because I recently got Covid-19 for the second time in December 2020
so sad old Penn station torn down :..(
Could have been repurposed. Cincinnati Union Terminal in now a museum. It nearly met the wrecking ball.
Well said ⭐️
All right, that's three of your videos we have clicked on and not only been entertained, but educated.
...
.....
Just take your subscription, dammit.
amazing Video! Really enjoyed it. Does anyone know what the name of the song at the end is?
Moynihan is still no substitute for this masterpiece.
Excellent!!!!
So, I suppose this station was torn down eventually.