If they have guaranteed spots in the Indy 500 it will be the worst decision they ever made. Indy 500 qualifying is a tradition you take that away with guaranteed spots.
At this point I'm used to IndyCar's spotty decision making, which has really been going on for about 50+ years as of now. Growing up in Indianapolis, I always have a soft spot for the series(s), and their long history of baffling moves makes it difficult for a larger audience to understand why IndyCar/American Open Wheel is so awesome.
Before the era of cookie cutter cars, bump day was really exciting with shoe string teams desperate to make the field in older cars. Drivers ride hopping and sometimes going out to qualify with only a couple laps in that car. Before wings and ground effects when the driver could make the difference. It used to be "The Month of May" because no team tested year round. Many times more than 60 cars were entered, sure some of them were too slow to even make a qualifying run but back then it was something to even be there. For those too young to have seen it you really missed it. Pole day had crowds almost as big as race day. Now race tracks have to have different colored seats so it looks like the stands are full. (mostly in Nascar) Lastly, How much further than 500 miles are they actually going with all the snake like zig zagging they do today?
If I had the money I would buy the track from RP and make these changes. Go back to the format used in the earlier 70s. Increase prize money out of my pocket to make it possible for teams to make a profit by qualifing in the top 20 and finishing the race in the top ten. That's if I had the money. I do like some of the current qualifing features but want the 2 weekends back. Old guy who loved the old ways but also like today's safer cars.
I love how IndyCar went from having good news such as IndyCar returning to iRacing and retuning to Nashville Superspeedway too constant bad news again… - focusing on street course marketing - Charters - probably returning to Nashville Streets in a few years Being an IndyCar fan is so hard… Charters are garbage and it’s not the right way to build a team. Not only that, this is an insult towards the Indy 500, Bump Day, and the sport in general. This is like the 25/8 rule 2.0
@@crystaljon nobody is gonna learn or improvise 2011 Vegas and fix things for the better by just “not going”. Not only 2011 Vegas is the reason, but terrible marketing and lack of attendances are also the problems with the ovals that isn’t the Indy 500
@@crystaljon You would also think they run a low downforce aero package now like Nascar runs at intermediates. As opposed to the cars racing in big packs like when we lost Dan
I mean kill me if you like, but as a newish fan to motorsports (I've ween watching F1 for a few seasons now, and have branched out into V8 Supercars, WEC, and I watched a few NASCAR and IndyCar events as well), most ovals just aren't very entertaining to watch. Most are too same-y and it just gets so monotonous I just wind up getting bored and zoned out. I know I know, overtakes and all, but they're so common on ovals as to not really inspire emotion, unless it's at the front. Road/Street circuits are just far more interesting visually imho. No smoke to IndyCar fans, or fans of oval racing in general, again, this is just an opinion lol. But NASCAR for example has always been most interesting to when at Super Speedways and Road Courses.
@@widiwoqm1544Actually there are 5 ovals including Indy, and 7 races total (Iowa and Milwaukee Mile having back to back weekends). Thats DEFINITELY a positive imo. But yes, the Motorsport Games debacle is definitely something, and ofc this BS charter system for the Indy 500
I don't want charters in the indy 500 the whole qualifying process for the indy 500 is always interesting when theres a 33+ field because you always wonder whos gonna make it a driver who's solid when it comes to driving a indycar or a underdog thats why qualifying is its own show of its own
The whole idea of charters in IndyCar makes no sense considering the fields for non-Indy 500 races are already pretty sizable and the 500 itself is the only race enough cars try to qualify and where there’s a “Bump Day.” IndyCar has already been going the wrong direction under Penske’s leadership for the most part (let alone the downhill slope beforehand for years), and if they implement a charter system of any kind that rids the traditions of qualifying and Bump Day for the 500, I’m done with IndyCar.
@fiatfan83 I've been watching David Land since 2015 and while you may be spot on target. I would be extremely interested as to HOW he "rubbed a ton of professionals the wrong way?" Just curious for my own personal edification. Thanks.
Yeah, they literally carve out the month of June just so drivers can go to Le Mans. Why would they torpedo that? All that'll do is encourage drivers to move to IMSA
I think the idea is that teams aren't allowed to start or join a series that competes directly with the series they're chartered in. IE another stock car series or another American open wheel series. Doesn't stop them from expanding into other forms of motorsports
It's more of a don't race in another top level US based formula series. It wouldn't affect sports car, stock car, international series, or lower level formulas.
He helped caused the second split in 1990's and a bigger change then one in 1960's where Dirt tracks were going away from most sports with some Kart or similar racing exceptions. Also, in NASCAR his racers are some of most hated with Joey Lagano and formerly Kyle Bush.
What a terrible idea! Indy 500 pole and bump day is one of the best days in motorsports; there's no good reason to ruin it by implementing somehting that's already a problem in NASCAR (don't get me started with Formula One and its "franchise style model"). As Darian said, some of the best moments in IndyCar (and motorsport) history have been delivered by this, and the only time it was broken it happened due to Tony George's greed and was thankfully scrapped a few years after being implemented. The only winners in something like this are big team owners at the expense of smaller entries, including Indy 500 only guys like Kyle Kaiser and Juncos were that day in 2019.
Hot take: Keep the charter system away from the Indy 500. Rest of the season, who knows, perhaps a charter "rental" for one season. Continuing, instead of going the hybrid V6 route, Indycar as a whole really should just allow any plug & play GT3/DPI engine that can fit at this point with Honda leaving and the series as a whole seeming to circle the drain outside of the Indy 500.
I hate it when business takes priority for the survival of a series at the cost of tradition and fanfare A return to the 25-8 rule shows IndyCar (IRL) has never moved on from Tony George nor 1996 entirely
One of the most exciting things about May is watching the practices for Indy and seeing who might make the field and if any big names miss it And then qualifying where you watch and hope your favorite driver at LEAST makes the show It’s so exciting and the fact it might be taken away would suck so much
Good way to make the indy 500 just another race. Bump day should always be a part of the event. Making the race is as much a spectacle as the race itself.
Nope! Do not like the idea at all! It is the one race of the year where nothing is guaranteed... You wanna rock up with last year's chassis you brought from another team and slap an engine in it? Hell yeah! Like thats the 500, anyone who enters has a chance, bump day is one of the most tense qualifying sessions in our sport...
I feel that Indycar is making decisions aimed at alienating the core fan base. I know that is not on purpose, but for years I've wondered if Miles is a fan. Every year I go to a race, and its not always the same race. So I have a novel idea. If you can't qualify for the race you don't get to race!
I'm all for the tradition of the fastest 33 earning their spots based on merit. Charters will certainly devalue the Indianapolis 500 mile race in terms of tradition, and the same concern I remember CART team owners having in 1996 are literally creeping up again as you mentioned, and is that want the sponsors really want? Side note: On of the best days at Indy is Bump day. 2000 & 2001, Billy Boat was dramatically on the bubble twice & survived. It's an underrated moment that makes Indy, Indy. Qualifying for this race is just as special as the invitation to the Le Mans 24 Hours. One of a kind.
Cliche as it is, gonna toss 1993 and 1995 in as the other great Bump Days, the will they/won't they of Penske in 95, the tears from Bobby in 93 and Graham being bumped out in 23...
Ah hell no. Why should guys like Helio Castroneves get an automatic spot every year just because of their team, being previous winners, etc? This is absolutely disgusting.
Andrew Craig was right ! However Tony George wanted the biggest piece of the pie being advised by his family the Hulman George family which always had a beef with CART up until the infamous spirit trying to hijack emotions of the fan base would wanted to see the homegrown USAC talent have a legitimate chance to win and were up in arms over the CART teams huge budgets of their programs. However ever since then it seems like the want to always want to be smaller than NASCAR ever since they came to Indy in 1994.
Maybe I'm jumping the gun but lets just hope this doesn't get too big in the motorsport world to the point where WEC and other forms of motorsport consider putting a charter system for events like Le mans. 🤞
WEC already has a Charter system my dude. If you don't make hyperpole at Le mans you just start at the back of the grid there's no drop day. All 62 entries are guaranteed a start.
At this point This series is beyond a 5 alarm dumpster fire. 3 steps forwards & 9 steps backwards
7 місяців тому+7
Under no circumstances should the qualifying format for the Indy500 be changed. However, one possibility would be that teams taking part in the championship would still receive points even if they cannot qualify for the race. Teams that only take part in the Indy 500 do not receive any championship points and everyone else receives them according to their position in the race or position in qualifying. So at least the damage to the teams in terms of the championship would be less.
The issue here is that every car that makes the field and starts the race gets at least one point. All of the drivers that finish towards the back only get 1 point, i.e. finishing 32nd doesn't get you any more points than 33rd. Off the top of my head I cannot remember how far up you have to finish before you get 2 points, but it is somewhere in the mid-20s. So, yeah, you could say that "you would have qualified 34th but were bumped so we will give you position 34 points" but that would still only be 1 point. I certainly don't think they deserve higher than 34th position points if they don't qualify, even if they are a full-time entry. They already took the Indy 500 double-points away to help out teams that don't make it. I wonder which full time teams are so concerned about being so crappy that they won't make the field. Probably the same ones that would rather race the Nashville streets vs. the speedway.
6 місяців тому
All ranks from 26th to 33nd get 5 points. There is no differentiation. @@ramblinman4197
The only two that should be guaranteed to race this year’s Indianapolis 500 are Josef Newgarden (defending winner) and Alex Palou (defending IndyCar champion)
As I've said many times, one of the things that made A.J. Foyt's record of 35 consecutive Indy 500s as a driver so incredible is not just that it was during one of the most dangerous periods in racing history. It was that he had to actually QUALIFY for all those races. There were no provisional spots, no charters, you had to be one of the 33 fastest -- and that was back when you'd have 60 or more cars trying to make the race.
You could argue that in extreme cases thr charter system would compromise on drivers safety. E.g. If a car barely manage to keep above 300 kph (180 mph) and all of a sudden a pack of cars appear behind them going 3-4 wide at 370 kph (231 mph).
Then you just do what F2 did and make sure cars cannot take part in qualifying if they can't set competitive laps in practice. Charter systems have been in motorsport for decades.
I already hate the charter system in Nascar. You shouldn't be able to piss off on qualy day because you know you're in the field. No, you need to earn your spot. I had an absolute blast watching qualifying and bump day last year. It was an absolute thriller watching Rahal, one of the biggest names in IndyCar, DNQ for the biggest race of the year. A charter system will take all of that away
Penske doesn't wants one of his cars going home.but day is special it still means something. If chase Elliott in NASCAR how that story would be that a hms miss the race that what kind of drama it can bring.
One of the best things to do (and early on) in a video about a "charter system" would be to explain wtf a charter system is. Other than that, great job.
Didn't Penske have a fit when Tony George had 25 IRL guaranteed starters in one of the 500's in the 90's. He then went to organize the CART US 500 at Michigan (the track he owned) that ran against the Indy 500. Maybe Roger is thinking we forgot. We haven't.
Speaking from afar as a European viewer, this seems to be a completely insane idea that destroys much of the value of the event for the spectators. It goes some way to converting the race from a true competition to a "sporting spectacle" like professional wrestling. It's akin to the way in which US American Football, Soccer and other "league" sports have no relegation for the bottom-finishing teams (plus promotion for the topmost teams in the next lower division), and are thus not taken seriously worldwide. If your current division membership (and income levels) for next season aren't on the line, why strive to win right up to the end of the season?
Anymore racing and the people who own it basically say how can we make more money we don't care about the show we care about making more money that's all that we care about is how much money can we make and how rich can we be that's American capitalism that is finest🤔
I like how Indy League is arguing that because this bad idea was thought of a while ago, is a reason to do it now. No. It was a bad idea then, and it still is.
This series should just run Indianapolis and Indianapolis ONLY. Solves all of the ridiculous problems this series has. Make the whole month a spectacle. It is BEYOND QUITE EVIDENT that the series is beyond unmanageable. Nobody has a clue on what’s going on
A charter system might literally kill the series, because nobody will want to be a driver in solely IndyCar. IndyCar has few race events with most having low payouts compared to NASCAR, WRC, and the FIA continental touring car series. Most IndyCar drivers do IndyCar early in the year and then do ALMS, WEC, and Trans-Am in the latter half of the year because they couldn't continue their careers otherwise. And this is a good thing, because it keeps people watching all four series due to them being able to recognize drivers and team owners and creates better drivers through the diversity of cars and conditions. IndyCar still hasn't recovered from the USAC CART split. Them isolating themselves in an effort to copy NASCAR's system that hurts NASCAR as much as it helps is most likely a fatal blow, because IndyCar can't suffer an injury that NASCAR and WEC could survive.
What BS it’s becoming NASCAR. All this guaranteed being in the race is just more BS that’s gonna kill both indy and NASCAR. The fastest qualifiers get in that’s it. Then people will come to the track to see qualifying . Why even bother going to the track if everybody is guaranteed a spot. If you crash in qualifying tough 💩go home you didn’t make it.
Are they out of their minds??? A charter system will sink IndyCar. The NASCAR charter system has really done a number on NASCAR. You don't have very many go or go home drivers in NASCAR and many times you don't even have 40 cars in the Cup races. Entry lists have really shrunk since putting in a charter system in NASCAR. It was already a problem when they locked in the top 35 in owner points. Now it's even worse. They need to get away from charters in NASCAR. IndyCar is making a huge mistake. I ask you again. Are they out of their minds???
You know the reason why I stopped watching NASCAR? Gimmicks. Not about racing. Don’t let this happen to IndyCar any further than it already has. Leave the tradition. Whatever for the rest of the Series I guess.
How many of you are pissed off about Andretti/Cadillac not being allowed into F1? This I what happens if Charter/Franchises are introduced. Only teams that have bought their way into the system are allowed to race, including the despicable Haas team!
With IndyCar barely filling the field for the 500 as they have been the last couple years due to funding, engine availability... why are they now so worried about locking in spots for teams? Gimme a break, we know why a charter system is being discu$$ed.
I only want the fastest 33 cars/drivers on the grid for the Indy 500 full stop …… but I can understand the season long teams getting the hump if the only race that they don’t race at is the Indy 500 …… I’ve always thought a fair compromise is if an Indy only car/cars makes the race that they have to put 1% off any race winnings into a big pot for each season long car that Doesn’t make the cut…… (so example 2 main cars knocked out the 33 field then 2% tax to be paid into the pot) and then that pot only gets shared equally amongst the cars/charters in that particular situation …… that way even though the big teams aren’t guaranteed to enter every single race at least they will get a little tiny bit off “insurance “ money if they aren’t in the 33 off the big race off the season as a partial compensation ! ???
Major auto series, a few of them, have been in a real disconnect with the fans and the soul of sport. F1 snubbing Andretti and what ever is the current beef with NASCAR. Qualifying for Indy is a major draw for the entire month at the speedway. And you want to ditch that?
Makes sense, a car owner is in charge of the Indy 500. He will makes rules to protect the owners and screw the fans. Hate to say it, but this will be the beginning of the fast demise of the IRL. The one thing that the Hulman's pushed for was the tradition of the Indy 500. :(
Need to learn from NASCAR and not even consider tinkering with anything. NASCAR is still successful and profitable but it will NEVER have the same aura it once had. Playoffs destroyed the prestige of winning a championship. Charters killed new owners from entering the cup series, full fields are a thing of the past. It's even trickling down into trucks, only 32 entries in consecutive weeks. Also messing with historic things will forever tarnish the event. The Daytona 500 doesn't feel big anymore without the speedweeks it used to have. It went from two weeks with the clash and qualifying the weekend before to an abbreviated schedule where the duels are pointless because nobody shows up anymore because it's not even profitable. Don't ruin the one last event thats kept its tradition sacred.
The 25/8 rule is what killed American open wheel racing more so then just the split in itself and we're supposed to pretend one of NASCAR's two worst ideas coming to Indy is a good idea?
I don't know what the word "charter" means, but I'm not liking it at all! Fastest 33 are in! Why change a system that makes the championship much more exciting?
All the people screaming for Mark Miles and Roger Penske's heads and not realizing that the only people fighting for guaranteed entries are the Big 4 teams is pure satire 😂
the supid thing is when was the last time a non 500 indycar race sent cars home' also why dose indycar what to copping nascar when there fanbase is shrinking
We live in a timeline where NASCAR is prevailing and open-wheel leagues are fading (1st F1 with their street races, then NASCAR beating half the field at Le Mans, and now this). At this point, the Captain is the Brian of this whole debacle
F1 is fading how? Also the NASCAR at Le Mans wasn’t actually competing it in a classic of its own. Not against the GTEs and LMP2 that other was faster than. It was a publicity move nothing else.
Indycar Gone To Corporate Control ,More Money , more Wins ,Booring ! Need to sart over : IDEA ; Stock block ,V_6s Hommade Chassis ,(must meet specs ) would loose 30 mph. But bring back ,Innovation ,and Competition, and Many Differrent Teams ,Regular guys again ! ,Not Overseas ,Mega Corps Auto Manufacturers
Well as the race is not really affected, it does not bother me too much, but i totally understand your points. IMO they should also keep it like it was. Its also good for investors to have an exciting race or quali ;)
They should be focusing on making the race safer by making it illegal to race into the pit entrance area before going back on to the track before they impale themselves on the pit wall.
If IndyCar doesn't have guaranteed spots in the Indy 500, then they should REMOVE THE RACE FROM THE CHAMPIONSHIP. "Tradition?" GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK. Oh, how people forget about things like "some guy shows up with a stock block engine" and can make the field. Those days are over. How about this? The ONLY way that "some guy who shows up" can get a car, can get an engine, is because ONE OF THE EXISTING TEAMS GIVES HIM ONE -- or sells him one. JUST STOP PROVIDING CARS TO DRIVERS WHO AREN'T ALREADY IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP. That would end this nonsense, right there. In the end, I think -- if the Indianapolis 500 is going to continue to be a race in the championship -- then the teams and drivers competing in the entire championship should have guaranteed spots. Or just "call it an exhibition race," and make some formula that would allow anyone to walk in with their own engine -- like those "good old days" that don't exist anymore.
This is a loss for the fans and a win for the owners. Penske has been a major disappointment as the series owner.This series is dying due to lack of exposure and all we do is protect the car owners in the “club”. IF YOUR A FULL TIME SERIES ENTRY AND THAT PATHETIC THAT YOU CAN’T QUALIFY ON SPEED YOU DON’T DESERVE TO RACE!!!!!!
Monaco and/or F1 championship + Indy 500. That's prestigious... .There's only one, Graham Hill. How many won Indy and then F1 championship? Mario Andretti. Nobody outside the US believes the 500 to be the most prestigious race. Prestigious certainly, no question. Just look at all the F1 guys that have won it. Reserved grid spots? As we say, you're having a larf mate. Thanks and blessings.
The problem at Indianapolis is we haven't had "Real" qualifying like people remember from "The Good Old Days" for over a decade. Thanks to engine leases Honda and Chevrolet have no incentive to build any more engines than they absolutely have to. So you have a situation like last May where "Bump" day was 4 cars going for 3 spots in the back row. Oooh, exciting. 🙄 In 2022 we had exactly 33 cars attempt and qualify, 2021 had five cars going for the last three spots (the big story was Will Power squeaking in), 2020 had exactly 33 cars qualify, 2019 was a bit more exciting with six cars going for the last three spots (the aforementioned Alonso getting bumped by Kyle Kaiser), 2018 saw two cars miss (Pippa and Hinchcliffe). In 2017 the 500 struggled to get 33 cars, 2016 had no bumping, 2015 saw four cars go for the last three spots, and 2014 had no bumping. So over the last ten years the most cars we've had is 2019 with 36 cars trying for 33 spots. The days of 40 or 50 cars going for 33 spots, with someone trying a wild banzai run at 5:59 PM on Bump Day are long gone. So if they go to guaranteed spots, I'd say go ahead, you're pretty close to a guaranteed spot at Indianapolis for the 500 anyhow. 🤣It's not like Honda or Chevy are going to crank out engines to fill out 60 leases anytime soon. If you're a team with anything on the ball, you're in the field. Unless you're RLL Racing. (JK Graham. 😉) That said, I am realistic enough to remember that during the "salad days" of the Indy 500 of the 1980s and 90s before The Split, there were years that maybe one car bumped into the field. Also, I remember Buick supplied a lot of their stock-block V6 engines to fill out the 500 field. You'd be somewhat assured of making the 500 with one. Finishing the 500 with one was another thing entirely. 🧨 I would want, like others here, as many cars to attempt to make the Indianapolis 500 field as possible. I do want it to happen to cement the legacy of how special the race is. However, unless the rulebooks are opened up and additional engine and chassis combinations appear, I don't see it happening.
No series at any level should have “guaranteed starting spots”. If I build a car to compete to start at any race I should be allowed to qualify myself in, Indy, Formula series, NASCAR, IMSA GT, backyard dirt track street stock.
The IndyCar/IRL split killed the series. It hasn't been the same since, and it feelsnlkke there has been a lack of teams since then also. It's like when NASCAR introduced the Car of Tomorrow and the new points (stages, playoffs, etc.), what was supposed to make NASCAR more exciting actually made it more boring!
Did Roger Penske put Tony George back in charge? They did something similar when they had the 25/8 rule in the early days of the IRL, where they got away with it in 1996, but the following year they had to expand the field to 35 cars, becausevthere where two non-IRL cars/teams that qualified quicker than the slowest IRL car. Completely idiotic.
If they have guaranteed spots in the Indy 500 it will be the worst decision they ever made.
Indy 500 qualifying is a tradition you take that away with guaranteed spots.
Didn't we just go through this a couple years ago? Now again?!? The fastest 33 is "The One Tradition" that absolutely can NOT be screwed with!!!
It's crap.
At this point I'm used to IndyCar's spotty decision making, which has really been going on for about 50+ years as of now. Growing up in Indianapolis, I always have a soft spot for the series(s), and their long history of baffling moves makes it difficult for a larger audience to understand why IndyCar/American Open Wheel is so awesome.
Before the era of cookie cutter cars, bump day was really exciting with shoe string teams desperate to make the field in older cars. Drivers ride hopping and sometimes going out to qualify with only a couple laps in that car. Before wings and ground effects when the driver could make the difference. It used to be "The Month of May" because no team tested year round. Many times more than 60 cars were entered, sure some of them were too slow to even make a qualifying run but back then it was something to even be there. For those too young to have seen it you really missed it. Pole day had crowds almost as big as race day. Now race tracks have to have different colored seats so it looks like the stands are full. (mostly in Nascar) Lastly, How much further than 500 miles are they actually going with all the snake like zig zagging they do today?
If I had the money I would buy the track from RP and make these changes. Go back to the format used in the earlier 70s. Increase prize money out of my pocket to make it possible for teams to make a profit by qualifing in the top 20 and finishing the race in the top ten. That's if I had the money. I do like some of the current qualifing features but want the 2 weekends back. Old guy who loved the old ways but also like today's safer cars.
I love how IndyCar went from having good news such as IndyCar returning to iRacing and retuning to Nashville Superspeedway too constant bad news again…
- focusing on street course marketing
- Charters
- probably returning to Nashville Streets in a few years
Being an IndyCar fan is so hard…
Charters are garbage and it’s not the right way to build a team. Not only that, this is an insult towards the Indy 500, Bump Day, and the sport in general.
This is like the 25/8 rule 2.0
It's been WELL over a decade since the death of Dan Wheldon, I think it's about time IndyCar stop giving ovals the cold shoulder.
@@crystaljon nobody is gonna learn or improvise 2011 Vegas and fix things for the better by just “not going”.
Not only 2011 Vegas is the reason, but terrible marketing and lack of attendances are also the problems with the ovals that isn’t the Indy 500
@@crystaljon I’m sure Dan wants to see them race on more ovals again
@@crystaljon You would also think they run a low downforce aero package now like Nascar runs at intermediates. As opposed to the cars racing in big packs like when we lost Dan
I mean kill me if you like, but as a newish fan to motorsports (I've ween watching F1 for a few seasons now, and have branched out into V8 Supercars, WEC, and I watched a few NASCAR and IndyCar events as well), most ovals just aren't very entertaining to watch. Most are too same-y and it just gets so monotonous I just wind up getting bored and zoned out. I know I know, overtakes and all, but they're so common on ovals as to not really inspire emotion, unless it's at the front. Road/Street circuits are just far more interesting visually imho. No smoke to IndyCar fans, or fans of oval racing in general, again, this is just an opinion lol. But NASCAR for example has always been most interesting to when at Super Speedways and Road Courses.
I feel like Indycar is endlessly shooting itself in both of its feet.
They should just race Indianapolis and make that whole month one big spectacle
not pulling out of Motorsport Games, 4 ovals in 2024, no games after that Xbox 360 game
@@widiwoqm1544Actually there are 5 ovals including Indy, and 7 races total (Iowa and Milwaukee Mile having back to back weekends). Thats DEFINITELY a positive imo. But yes, the Motorsport Games debacle is definitely something, and ofc this BS charter system for the Indy 500
It doesnt have feet
@@AgentsCinematicUniverse Not anymore!
I don't want charters in the indy 500 the whole qualifying process for the indy 500 is always interesting when theres a 33+ field because you always wonder whos gonna make it a driver who's solid when it comes to driving a indycar or a underdog thats why qualifying is its own show of its own
easy solution make the cars cheaper so the teams dont have to spend so much on the race, it takes sponsors to make the teams run
It needs to be the fastest 33 cars and drivers. No owner spots. It's the Indy 500!
The whole idea of charters in IndyCar makes no sense considering the fields for non-Indy 500 races are already pretty sizable and the 500 itself is the only race enough cars try to qualify and where there’s a “Bump Day.” IndyCar has already been going the wrong direction under Penske’s leadership for the most part (let alone the downhill slope beforehand for years), and if they implement a charter system of any kind that rids the traditions of qualifying and Bump Day for the 500, I’m done with IndyCar.
UA-cam's god emperor of Indycar (David Land) is DEFINITELY going to have something to say about this you can bank on that
More like head jackass
@TJ89741 He probably heard the news, got ticked off and decided to just cover NASCAR and IMSA this year.
I can only imagine how angry he'll be
@fiatfan83 I've been watching David Land since 2015 and while you may be spot on target. I would be extremely interested as to HOW he "rubbed a ton of professionals the wrong way?" Just curious for my own personal edification. Thanks.
a charter where drivers cannot drive in another series? That will surely backfire on them
Yeah, they literally carve out the month of June just so drivers can go to Le Mans. Why would they torpedo that? All that'll do is encourage drivers to move to IMSA
I think the idea is that teams aren't allowed to start or join a series that competes directly with the series they're chartered in. IE another stock car series or another American open wheel series. Doesn't stop them from expanding into other forms of motorsports
they wouldnt be able to drive in f1 or a series like that, they still can drive in the endurance races
@redred222 where would that leave the Andretti campaign to join F1? Would they then be getting pressure from both directions to stick to Indycar?
It's more of a don't race in another top level US based formula series. It wouldn't affect sports car, stock car, international series, or lower level formulas.
Roger Penske is a successful team owner and a real shitty IndyCar owner.
He helped caused the second split in 1990's and a bigger change then one in 1960's where Dirt tracks were going away from most sports with some Kart or similar racing exceptions. Also, in NASCAR his racers are some of most hated with Joey Lagano and formerly Kyle Bush.
@@caseysmith544Don't you mean Brad K?
he's probably killing it to get old nascar fans back.......imagine that 🙄
@@caseysmith544 Kyle Busch never raced for Penske. It was Kurt Busch
Kyle Busch raced for Hendrick, JGR and RCR. You thinking of his brother, who he fired for being a complete ass.
Indycar saw the mistake NASCAR made and said, “We can make it so much worse”.
An IndyCar "hold my beer" moment.
What a terrible idea! Indy 500 pole and bump day is one of the best days in motorsports; there's no good reason to ruin it by implementing somehting that's already a problem in NASCAR (don't get me started with Formula One and its "franchise style model").
As Darian said, some of the best moments in IndyCar (and motorsport) history have been delivered by this, and the only time it was broken it happened due to Tony George's greed and was thankfully scrapped a few years after being implemented. The only winners in something like this are big team owners at the expense of smaller entries, including Indy 500 only guys like Kyle Kaiser and Juncos were that day in 2019.
Why?... Just why?...
Why does every single racing series want to do all of NASCAR's *stupidest* moves/decisions?
Because Nascar is watched by the masses and the masses are stupid.
The are really trying kill INDYCAR, now messing around with the Indy 500 .😢
If you havent noticed its mostly dead now, nobody cares anymore
@@kdmigloo No I haven't noticed yet, but thank you for the info 😊
@@kdmigloo Guess you didnt see how many people turned up yesterday and waited out the storm,
@@davidgray1515 check the turnout next week, there will be more hotdog vendors than fans
Indycar really fucking up like really
IndyCar's been its own worst enemy for decades.
@@briantaylor9285 You know what I'm blaming it on Tony George
1995 called and said this was a horrible idea.
Motorsports Bust Charter Systems.
When will IndyCar stop trying to be open-wheel NASCAR?
The daytona 500 has already been dumbed down we dont need Indy being dumbed down
Yes a Bit by having the Clash ruined as a demolition derby then having qualifying races unaired.
This would be the beginning to the end of indycar.
Its already dead, indy is the only place that there is more fans than hot dog vendors in the seats.
That already started with the chassis/engine/manufacturer issues and delays.
Hot take: Keep the charter system away from the Indy 500. Rest of the season, who knows, perhaps a charter "rental" for one season. Continuing, instead of going the hybrid V6 route, Indycar as a whole really should just allow any plug & play GT3/DPI engine that can fit at this point with Honda leaving and the series as a whole seeming to circle the drain outside of the Indy 500.
I hate it when business takes priority for the survival of a series at the cost of tradition and fanfare
A return to the 25-8 rule shows IndyCar (IRL) has never moved on from Tony George nor 1996 entirely
Screw a charter system. They need to put their attention to trying to keep Honda in Indycar and not lose them to NASCAR
What Is You Doing Roger Penske???
Money money money
Fucking it up, of course.
Making shitty decisions before the dementia kicks in
are*
@tubesoupio Some people say "what is you doing" too
One of the most exciting things about May is watching the practices for Indy and seeing who might make the field and if any big names miss it
And then qualifying where you watch and hope your favorite driver at LEAST makes the show
It’s so exciting and the fact it might be taken away would suck so much
Good way to make the indy 500 just another race.
Bump day should always be a part of the event. Making the race is as much a spectacle as the race itself.
Nope! Do not like the idea at all!
It is the one race of the year where nothing is guaranteed... You wanna rock up with last year's chassis you brought from another team and slap an engine in it? Hell yeah!
Like thats the 500, anyone who enters has a chance, bump day is one of the most tense qualifying sessions in our sport...
I feel that Indycar is making decisions aimed at alienating the core fan base. I know that is not on purpose, but for years I've wondered if Miles is a fan. Every year I go to a race, and its not always the same race. So I have a novel idea. If you can't qualify for the race you don't get to race!
Fitting your playing Persona 5 music because someone needs to change the hearts of Indycar's management.
IndyCar are really trying hard to take the heat off the problems in F1 right now, aren't they?
I'm all for the tradition of the fastest 33 earning their spots based on merit. Charters will certainly devalue the Indianapolis 500 mile race in terms of tradition, and the same concern I remember CART team owners having in 1996 are literally creeping up again as you mentioned, and is that want the sponsors really want? Side note: On of the best days at Indy is Bump day. 2000 & 2001, Billy Boat was dramatically on the bubble twice & survived. It's an underrated moment that makes Indy, Indy. Qualifying for this race is just as special as the invitation to the Le Mans 24 Hours. One of a kind.
Cliche as it is, gonna toss 1993 and 1995 in as the other great Bump Days, the will they/won't they of Penske in 95, the tears from Bobby in 93 and Graham being bumped out in 23...
Aww yeah the 25/8 rule is back baby!
Bring back the Infiniti V8s!
Ah hell no. Why should guys like Helio Castroneves get an automatic spot every year just because of their team, being previous winners, etc? This is absolutely disgusting.
Andrew Craig was right ! However Tony George wanted the biggest piece of the pie being advised by his family the Hulman George family which always had a beef with CART up until the infamous spirit trying to hijack emotions of the fan base would wanted to see the homegrown USAC talent have a legitimate chance to win and were up in arms over the CART teams huge budgets of their programs. However ever since then it seems like the want to always want to be smaller than NASCAR ever since they came to Indy in 1994.
Maybe I'm jumping the gun but lets just hope this doesn't get too big in the motorsport world to the point where WEC and other forms of motorsport consider putting a charter system for events like Le mans. 🤞
F1 is a charter system essentially.
Correct
WEC already has a Charter system my dude.
If you don't make hyperpole at Le mans you just start at the back of the grid there's no drop day. All 62 entries are guaranteed a start.
@@louiscypher4186 because its invite only
I can see why someone would want a charter system, but it goes completely against the idea of the 500. That’s what makes the 500 so special.
Not cool indycar. Not freaking cool.
At this point This series is beyond a 5 alarm dumpster fire. 3 steps forwards & 9 steps backwards
Under no circumstances should the qualifying format for the Indy500 be changed. However, one possibility would be that teams taking part in the championship would still receive points even if they cannot qualify for the race. Teams that only take part in the Indy 500 do not receive any championship points and everyone else receives them according to their position in the race or position in qualifying. So at least the damage to the teams in terms of the championship would be less.
The issue here is that every car that makes the field and starts the race gets at least one point. All of the drivers that finish towards the back only get 1 point, i.e. finishing 32nd doesn't get you any more points than 33rd. Off the top of my head I cannot remember how far up you have to finish before you get 2 points, but it is somewhere in the mid-20s. So, yeah, you could say that "you would have qualified 34th but were bumped so we will give you position 34 points" but that would still only be 1 point. I certainly don't think they deserve higher than 34th position points if they don't qualify, even if they are a full-time entry.
They already took the Indy 500 double-points away to help out teams that don't make it. I wonder which full time teams are so concerned about being so crappy that they won't make the field. Probably the same ones that would rather race the Nashville streets vs. the speedway.
All ranks from 26th to 33nd get 5 points. There is no differentiation. @@ramblinman4197
The only two that should be guaranteed to race this year’s Indianapolis 500 are Josef Newgarden (defending winner) and Alex Palou (defending IndyCar champion)
That’s lame
Ok, I don't disagree, but how would you handle the case where one of those drivers would have changed teams between last year and this year ?
@@NicoGorsberg they would still be guaranteed to race, even if they switch teams
@@johnvandeventer8668 but winning the Indy 500 is a huge team work. Why rewarding the driver only ?
I like this idea.
As I've said many times, one of the things that made A.J. Foyt's record of 35 consecutive Indy 500s as a driver so incredible is not just that it was during one of the most dangerous periods in racing history. It was that he had to actually QUALIFY for all those races. There were no provisional spots, no charters, you had to be one of the 33 fastest -- and that was back when you'd have 60 or more cars trying to make the race.
You could argue that in extreme cases thr charter system would compromise on drivers safety.
E.g. If a car barely manage to keep above 300 kph (180 mph) and all of a sudden a pack of cars appear behind them going 3-4 wide at 370 kph (231 mph).
The days of truly awful teams and drivers are gone. Indy car is very competitive 1-27
Then you just do what F2 did and make sure cars cannot take part in qualifying if they can't set competitive laps in practice.
Charter systems have been in motorsport for decades.
I already hate the charter system in Nascar. You shouldn't be able to piss off on qualy day because you know you're in the field. No, you need to earn your spot.
I had an absolute blast watching qualifying and bump day last year. It was an absolute thriller watching Rahal, one of the biggest names in IndyCar, DNQ for the biggest race of the year. A charter system will take all of that away
Penske doesn't wants one of his cars going home.but day is special it still means something.
If chase Elliott in NASCAR how that story would be that a hms miss the race that what kind of drama it can bring.
One of the best things to do (and early on) in a video about a "charter system" would be to explain wtf a charter system is. Other than that, great job.
Didn't Penske have a fit when Tony George had 25 IRL guaranteed starters in one of the 500's in the 90's. He then went to organize the CART US 500 at Michigan (the track he owned) that ran against the Indy 500. Maybe Roger is thinking we forgot. We haven't.
Speaking from afar as a European viewer, this seems to be a completely insane idea that destroys much of the value of the event for the spectators. It goes some way to converting the race from a true competition to a "sporting spectacle" like professional wrestling.
It's akin to the way in which US American Football, Soccer and other "league" sports have no relegation for the bottom-finishing teams (plus promotion for the topmost teams in the next lower division), and are thus not taken seriously worldwide. If your current division membership (and income levels) for next season aren't on the line, why strive to win right up to the end of the season?
Remember when the best car/driver combos made the 500 regardless of politics... good times, good times...
Anymore racing and the people who own it basically say how can we make more money we don't care about the show we care about making more money that's all that we care about is how much money can we make and how rich can we be that's American capitalism that is finest🤔
They can’t do this… this is the last thing left from old motor sport outside of the Isle of Man tt. Genuinely
I like how Indy League is arguing that because this bad idea was thought of a while ago, is a reason to do it now. No. It was a bad idea then, and it still is.
This series should just run Indianapolis and Indianapolis ONLY. Solves all of the ridiculous problems this series has. Make the whole month a spectacle. It is BEYOND QUITE EVIDENT that the series is beyond unmanageable. Nobody has a clue on what’s going on
A charter system might literally kill the series, because nobody will want to be a driver in solely IndyCar. IndyCar has few race events with most having low payouts compared to NASCAR, WRC, and the FIA continental touring car series. Most IndyCar drivers do IndyCar early in the year and then do ALMS, WEC, and Trans-Am in the latter half of the year because they couldn't continue their careers otherwise. And this is a good thing, because it keeps people watching all four series due to them being able to recognize drivers and team owners and creates better drivers through the diversity of cars and conditions. IndyCar still hasn't recovered from the USAC CART split. Them isolating themselves in an effort to copy NASCAR's system that hurts NASCAR as much as it helps is most likely a fatal blow, because IndyCar can't suffer an injury that NASCAR and WEC could survive.
What BS it’s becoming NASCAR. All this guaranteed being in the race is just more BS that’s gonna kill both indy and NASCAR. The fastest qualifiers get in that’s it.
Then people will come to the track to see qualifying . Why even bother going to the track if everybody is guaranteed a spot.
If you crash in qualifying tough 💩go home you didn’t make it.
Are they out of their minds??? A charter system will sink IndyCar. The NASCAR charter system has really done a number on NASCAR. You don't have very many go or go home drivers in NASCAR and many times you don't even have 40 cars in the Cup races. Entry lists have really shrunk since putting in a charter system in NASCAR. It was already a problem when they locked in the top 35 in owner points. Now it's even worse. They need to get away from charters in NASCAR. IndyCar is making a huge mistake. I ask you again. Are they out of their minds???
You know the reason why I stopped watching NASCAR? Gimmicks. Not about racing. Don’t let this happen to IndyCar any further than it already has. Leave the tradition. Whatever for the rest of the Series I guess.
How many of you are pissed off about Andretti/Cadillac not being allowed into F1? This I what happens if Charter/Franchises are introduced. Only teams that have bought their way into the system are allowed to race, including the despicable Haas team!
With IndyCar barely filling the field for the 500 as they have been the last couple years due to funding, engine availability... why are they now so worried about locking in spots for teams?
Gimme a break, we know why a charter system is being discu$$ed.
I only want the fastest 33 cars/drivers on the grid for the Indy 500 full stop …… but I can understand the season long teams getting the hump if the only race that they don’t race at is the Indy 500 …… I’ve always thought a fair compromise is if an Indy only car/cars makes the race that they have to put 1% off any race winnings into a big pot for each season long car that Doesn’t make the cut…… (so example 2 main cars knocked out the 33 field then 2% tax to be paid into the pot) and then that pot only gets shared equally amongst the cars/charters in that particular situation …… that way even though the big teams aren’t guaranteed to enter every single race at least they will get a little tiny bit off “insurance “ money if they aren’t in the 33 off the big race off the season as a partial compensation ! ???
Major auto series, a few of them, have been in a real disconnect with the fans and the soul of sport. F1 snubbing Andretti and what ever is the current beef with NASCAR. Qualifying for Indy is a major draw for the entire month at the speedway. And you want to ditch that?
Makes sense, a car owner is in charge of the Indy 500. He will makes rules to protect the owners and screw the fans. Hate to say it, but this will be the beginning of the fast demise of the IRL. The one thing that the Hulman's pushed for was the tradition of the Indy 500. :(
Moronic idea. Hell, qualifying for the Indy 500 is how you should GET a charter. No qualify, no charter
Roger Penske is Tony George 2.0. He have all the ods to finally put American Open Wheel Racing to the grave.
Roger Penske boycotted the Indy 500 with the 25/8 rule in place. Now he’s trying to guarantee starting spots.
Please don't do this. NASCAR has implemented the charter system, one of the reasons NASCAR top tier racing is not worth watching anymore.
I would argue that for nascar the Daytona 500 , Coca-Cola 600 and Brickyard 400 shouldn’t have locked in spots
With the same cars for 12 years and the guaranteed spots in the field, I’m seriously considering not attending anymore after nearly 30 years.
Need to learn from NASCAR and not even consider tinkering with anything. NASCAR is still successful and profitable but it will NEVER have the same aura it once had. Playoffs destroyed the prestige of winning a championship. Charters killed new owners from entering the cup series, full fields are a thing of the past. It's even trickling down into trucks, only 32 entries in consecutive weeks. Also messing with historic things will forever tarnish the event. The Daytona 500 doesn't feel big anymore without the speedweeks it used to have. It went from two weeks with the clash and qualifying the weekend before to an abbreviated schedule where the duels are pointless because nobody shows up anymore because it's not even profitable. Don't ruin the one last event thats kept its tradition sacred.
Don't Nascar my Indycar
^ Pin this comment Darian.
Indy is just becoming nascar 2.0, all of the stupid rules are starting to come over to the sport.
The 25/8 rule is what killed American open wheel racing more so then just the split in itself and we're supposed to pretend one of NASCAR's two worst ideas coming to Indy is a good idea?
This is wrong! IndyCar always shooting themselves in the foot.
It's the 1% ers being so out of touch with what matters & making terrible decisions
I hate it. What's the whole point of investing entire month only to know that most are locked in based on money.
They will NEVER ruin the Indy 500 like that until AI takes over next year. 😊
Can we just remove charters from racing all together? Thanks
I don't know what the word "charter" means, but I'm not liking it at all! Fastest 33 are in! Why change a system that makes the championship much more exciting?
We barely have enough cars to even have a bump day and now they want to charter teams? Do they want to even have a 33 car field?
All the people screaming for Mark Miles and Roger Penske's heads and not realizing that the only people fighting for guaranteed entries are the Big 4 teams is pure satire 😂
Roger's name is on one of those Big 4 teams so I think it applies here.
the supid thing is when was the last time a non 500 indycar race sent cars home'
also why dose indycar what to copping nascar when there fanbase is shrinking
Probably Surfers Paradise 1998 when Dennis Vitolo DNQed due to a lack of pit space
Charters suck in any motor sport
This, is a HORRIBLE idea.
We live in a timeline where NASCAR is prevailing and open-wheel leagues are fading (1st F1 with their street races, then NASCAR beating half the field at Le Mans, and now this). At this point, the Captain is the Brian of this whole debacle
F1 is fading how? Also the NASCAR at Le Mans wasn’t actually competing it in a classic of its own. Not against the GTEs and LMP2 that other was faster than. It was a publicity move nothing else.
Nascar is growing that's what he means @@rexthewolf3149
f1 viewership dropped last yr coz of max dominating the field
The cup car at Le Mans was there on a fun run as an invitational car.
Tony George and his consequences have been a disaster for IndyCar
This.. Sucks..
Indycar Gone To Corporate Control ,More Money , more Wins ,Booring ! Need to sart over : IDEA ; Stock block ,V_6s Hommade Chassis ,(must meet specs ) would loose 30 mph. But bring back ,Innovation ,and Competition, and Many Differrent Teams ,Regular guys again ! ,Not Overseas ,Mega Corps Auto Manufacturers
Well as the race is not really affected, it does not bother me too much, but i totally understand your points. IMO they should also keep it like it was. Its also good for investors to have an exciting race or quali ;)
They should be focusing on making the race safer by making it illegal to race into the pit entrance area before going back on to the track before they impale themselves on the pit wall.
If IndyCar doesn't have guaranteed spots in the Indy 500, then they should REMOVE THE RACE FROM THE CHAMPIONSHIP. "Tradition?" GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK. Oh, how people forget about things like "some guy shows up with a stock block engine" and can make the field. Those days are over. How about this? The ONLY way that "some guy who shows up" can get a car, can get an engine, is because ONE OF THE EXISTING TEAMS GIVES HIM ONE -- or sells him one. JUST STOP PROVIDING CARS TO DRIVERS WHO AREN'T ALREADY IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP. That would end this nonsense, right there. In the end, I think -- if the Indianapolis 500 is going to continue to be a race in the championship -- then the teams and drivers competing in the entire championship should have guaranteed spots. Or just "call it an exhibition race," and make some formula that would allow anyone to walk in with their own engine -- like those "good old days" that don't exist anymore.
Said this would happen when a Car Owner bought the Series. They are going to kill the event.
This is a loss for the fans and a win for the owners. Penske has been a major disappointment as the series owner.This series is dying due to lack of exposure and all we do is protect the car owners in the “club”. IF YOUR A FULL TIME SERIES ENTRY AND THAT PATHETIC THAT YOU CAN’T QUALIFY ON SPEED YOU DON’T DESERVE TO RACE!!!!!!
Monaco and/or F1 championship + Indy 500. That's prestigious...
.There's only one, Graham Hill. How many won Indy and then F1 championship? Mario Andretti.
Nobody outside the US believes the 500 to be the most prestigious race. Prestigious certainly, no question. Just look at all the F1 guys that have won it.
Reserved grid spots? As we say, you're having a larf mate.
Thanks and blessings.
Most prestigious race in the world.?????? What are you talking about. ????!
The problem at Indianapolis is we haven't had "Real" qualifying like people remember from "The Good Old Days" for over a decade. Thanks to engine leases Honda and Chevrolet have no incentive to build any more engines than they absolutely have to. So you have a situation like last May where "Bump" day was 4 cars going for 3 spots in the back row. Oooh, exciting. 🙄
In 2022 we had exactly 33 cars attempt and qualify, 2021 had five cars going for the last three spots (the big story was Will Power squeaking in), 2020 had exactly 33 cars qualify, 2019 was a bit more exciting with six cars going for the last three spots (the aforementioned Alonso getting bumped by Kyle Kaiser), 2018 saw two cars miss (Pippa and Hinchcliffe). In 2017 the 500 struggled to get 33 cars, 2016 had no bumping, 2015 saw four cars go for the last three spots, and 2014 had no bumping.
So over the last ten years the most cars we've had is 2019 with 36 cars trying for 33 spots. The days of 40 or 50 cars going for 33 spots, with someone trying a wild banzai run at 5:59 PM on Bump Day are long gone.
So if they go to guaranteed spots, I'd say go ahead, you're pretty close to a guaranteed spot at Indianapolis for the 500 anyhow. 🤣It's not like Honda or Chevy are going to crank out engines to fill out 60 leases anytime soon. If you're a team with anything on the ball, you're in the field.
Unless you're RLL Racing. (JK Graham. 😉)
That said, I am realistic enough to remember that during the "salad days" of the Indy 500 of the 1980s and 90s before The Split, there were years that maybe one car bumped into the field. Also, I remember Buick supplied a lot of their stock-block V6 engines to fill out the 500 field. You'd be somewhat assured of making the 500 with one. Finishing the 500 with one was another thing entirely. 🧨
I would want, like others here, as many cars to attempt to make the Indianapolis 500 field as possible. I do want it to happen to cement the legacy of how special the race is. However, unless the rulebooks are opened up and additional engine and chassis combinations appear, I don't see it happening.
No series at any level should have “guaranteed starting spots”. If I build a car to compete to start at any race I should be allowed to qualify myself in, Indy, Formula series, NASCAR, IMSA GT, backyard dirt track street stock.
5:30 the owners soooo totally won in 96 right
love how often the organizers expose themselves with this short sighted charter talk every now and then
The IndyCar/IRL split killed the series. It hasn't been the same since, and it feelsnlkke there has been a lack of teams since then also.
It's like when NASCAR introduced the Car of Tomorrow and the new points (stages, playoffs, etc.), what was supposed to make NASCAR more exciting actually made it more boring!
Did Roger Penske put Tony George back in charge? They did something similar when they had the 25/8 rule in the early days of the IRL, where they got away with it in 1996, but the following year they had to expand the field to 35 cars, becausevthere where two non-IRL cars/teams that qualified quicker than the slowest IRL car.
Completely idiotic.