If they have guaranteed spots in the Indy 500 it will be the worst decision they ever made. Indy 500 qualifying is a tradition you take that away with guaranteed spots.
I don't want charters in the indy 500 the whole qualifying process for the indy 500 is always interesting when theres a 33+ field because you always wonder whos gonna make it a driver who's solid when it comes to driving a indycar or a underdog thats why qualifying is its own show of its own
I love how IndyCar went from having good news such as IndyCar returning to iRacing and retuning to Nashville Superspeedway too constant bad news again… - focusing on street course marketing - Charters - probably returning to Nashville Streets in a few years Being an IndyCar fan is so hard… Charters are garbage and it’s not the right way to build a team. Not only that, this is an insult towards the Indy 500, Bump Day, and the sport in general. This is like the 25/8 rule 2.0
@@crystaljon nobody is gonna learn or improvise 2011 Vegas and fix things for the better by just “not going”. Not only 2011 Vegas is the reason, but terrible marketing and lack of attendances are also the problems with the ovals that isn’t the Indy 500
@@crystaljon You would also think they run a low downforce aero package now like Nascar runs at intermediates. As opposed to the cars racing in big packs like when we lost Dan
I mean kill me if you like, but as a newish fan to motorsports (I've ween watching F1 for a few seasons now, and have branched out into V8 Supercars, WEC, and I watched a few NASCAR and IndyCar events as well), most ovals just aren't very entertaining to watch. Most are too same-y and it just gets so monotonous I just wind up getting bored and zoned out. I know I know, overtakes and all, but they're so common on ovals as to not really inspire emotion, unless it's at the front. Road/Street circuits are just far more interesting visually imho. No smoke to IndyCar fans, or fans of oval racing in general, again, this is just an opinion lol. But NASCAR for example has always been most interesting to when at Super Speedways and Road Courses.
@@widiwoqm1544Actually there are 5 ovals including Indy, and 7 races total (Iowa and Milwaukee Mile having back to back weekends). Thats DEFINITELY a positive imo. But yes, the Motorsport Games debacle is definitely something, and ofc this BS charter system for the Indy 500
He helped caused the second split in 1990's and a bigger change then one in 1960's where Dirt tracks were going away from most sports with some Kart or similar racing exceptions. Also, in NASCAR his racers are some of most hated with Joey Lagano and formerly Kyle Bush.
The whole idea of charters in IndyCar makes no sense considering the fields for non-Indy 500 races are already pretty sizable and the 500 itself is the only race enough cars try to qualify and where there’s a “Bump Day.” IndyCar has already been going the wrong direction under Penske’s leadership for the most part (let alone the downhill slope beforehand for years), and if they implement a charter system of any kind that rids the traditions of qualifying and Bump Day for the 500, I’m done with IndyCar.
@fiatfan83 I've been watching David Land since 2015 and while you may be spot on target. I would be extremely interested as to HOW he "rubbed a ton of professionals the wrong way?" Just curious for my own personal edification. Thanks.
Yeah, they literally carve out the month of June just so drivers can go to Le Mans. Why would they torpedo that? All that'll do is encourage drivers to move to IMSA
I think the idea is that teams aren't allowed to start or join a series that competes directly with the series they're chartered in. IE another stock car series or another American open wheel series. Doesn't stop them from expanding into other forms of motorsports
It's more of a don't race in another top level US based formula series. It wouldn't affect sports car, stock car, international series, or lower level formulas.
What a terrible idea! Indy 500 pole and bump day is one of the best days in motorsports; there's no good reason to ruin it by implementing somehting that's already a problem in NASCAR (don't get me started with Formula One and its "franchise style model"). As Darian said, some of the best moments in IndyCar (and motorsport) history have been delivered by this, and the only time it was broken it happened due to Tony George's greed and was thankfully scrapped a few years after being implemented. The only winners in something like this are big team owners at the expense of smaller entries, including Indy 500 only guys like Kyle Kaiser and Juncos were that day in 2019.
One of the most exciting things about May is watching the practices for Indy and seeing who might make the field and if any big names miss it And then qualifying where you watch and hope your favorite driver at LEAST makes the show It’s so exciting and the fact it might be taken away would suck so much
I hate it when business takes priority for the survival of a series at the cost of tradition and fanfare A return to the 25-8 rule shows IndyCar (IRL) has never moved on from Tony George nor 1996 entirely
Hot take: Keep the charter system away from the Indy 500. Rest of the season, who knows, perhaps a charter "rental" for one season. Continuing, instead of going the hybrid V6 route, Indycar as a whole really should just allow any plug & play GT3/DPI engine that can fit at this point with Honda leaving and the series as a whole seeming to circle the drain outside of the Indy 500.
Good way to make the indy 500 just another race. Bump day should always be a part of the event. Making the race is as much a spectacle as the race itself.
I'm all for the tradition of the fastest 33 earning their spots based on merit. Charters will certainly devalue the Indianapolis 500 mile race in terms of tradition, and the same concern I remember CART team owners having in 1996 are literally creeping up again as you mentioned, and is that want the sponsors really want? Side note: On of the best days at Indy is Bump day. 2000 & 2001, Billy Boat was dramatically on the bubble twice & survived. It's an underrated moment that makes Indy, Indy. Qualifying for this race is just as special as the invitation to the Le Mans 24 Hours. One of a kind.
Cliche as it is, gonna toss 1993 and 1995 in as the other great Bump Days, the will they/won't they of Penske in 95, the tears from Bobby in 93 and Graham being bumped out in 23...
I feel that Indycar is making decisions aimed at alienating the core fan base. I know that is not on purpose, but for years I've wondered if Miles is a fan. Every year I go to a race, and its not always the same race. So I have a novel idea. If you can't qualify for the race you don't get to race!
I already hate the charter system in Nascar. You shouldn't be able to piss off on qualy day because you know you're in the field. No, you need to earn your spot. I had an absolute blast watching qualifying and bump day last year. It was an absolute thriller watching Rahal, one of the biggest names in IndyCar, DNQ for the biggest race of the year. A charter system will take all of that away
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Under no circumstances should the qualifying format for the Indy500 be changed. However, one possibility would be that teams taking part in the championship would still receive points even if they cannot qualify for the race. Teams that only take part in the Indy 500 do not receive any championship points and everyone else receives them according to their position in the race or position in qualifying. So at least the damage to the teams in terms of the championship would be less.
The issue here is that every car that makes the field and starts the race gets at least one point. All of the drivers that finish towards the back only get 1 point, i.e. finishing 32nd doesn't get you any more points than 33rd. Off the top of my head I cannot remember how far up you have to finish before you get 2 points, but it is somewhere in the mid-20s. So, yeah, you could say that "you would have qualified 34th but were bumped so we will give you position 34 points" but that would still only be 1 point. I certainly don't think they deserve higher than 34th position points if they don't qualify, even if they are a full-time entry. They already took the Indy 500 double-points away to help out teams that don't make it. I wonder which full time teams are so concerned about being so crappy that they won't make the field. Probably the same ones that would rather race the Nashville streets vs. the speedway.
8 місяців тому
All ranks from 26th to 33nd get 5 points. There is no differentiation. @@ramblinman4197
Andrew Craig was right ! However Tony George wanted the biggest piece of the pie being advised by his family the Hulman George family which always had a beef with CART up until the infamous spirit trying to hijack emotions of the fan base would wanted to see the homegrown USAC talent have a legitimate chance to win and were up in arms over the CART teams huge budgets of their programs. However ever since then it seems like the want to always want to be smaller than NASCAR ever since they came to Indy in 1994.
As I've said many times, one of the things that made A.J. Foyt's record of 35 consecutive Indy 500s as a driver so incredible is not just that it was during one of the most dangerous periods in racing history. It was that he had to actually QUALIFY for all those races. There were no provisional spots, no charters, you had to be one of the 33 fastest -- and that was back when you'd have 60 or more cars trying to make the race.
Maybe I'm jumping the gun but lets just hope this doesn't get too big in the motorsport world to the point where WEC and other forms of motorsport consider putting a charter system for events like Le mans. 🤞
WEC already has a Charter system my dude. If you don't make hyperpole at Le mans you just start at the back of the grid there's no drop day. All 62 entries are guaranteed a start.
The only two that should be guaranteed to race this year’s Indianapolis 500 are Josef Newgarden (defending winner) and Alex Palou (defending IndyCar champion)
One of the best things to do (and early on) in a video about a "charter system" would be to explain wtf a charter system is. Other than that, great job.
At this point I'm used to IndyCar's spotty decision making, which has really been going on for about 50+ years as of now. Growing up in Indianapolis, I always have a soft spot for the series(s), and their long history of baffling moves makes it difficult for a larger audience to understand why IndyCar/American Open Wheel is so awesome.
Didn't Penske have a fit when Tony George had 25 IRL guaranteed starters in one of the 500's in the 90's. He then went to organize the CART US 500 at Michigan (the track he owned) that ran against the Indy 500. Maybe Roger is thinking we forgot. We haven't.
Speaking from afar as a European viewer, this seems to be a completely insane idea that destroys much of the value of the event for the spectators. It goes some way to converting the race from a true competition to a "sporting spectacle" like professional wrestling. It's akin to the way in which US American Football, Soccer and other "league" sports have no relegation for the bottom-finishing teams (plus promotion for the topmost teams in the next lower division), and are thus not taken seriously worldwide. If your current division membership (and income levels) for next season aren't on the line, why strive to win right up to the end of the season?
Nope! Do not like the idea at all! It is the one race of the year where nothing is guaranteed... You wanna rock up with last year's chassis you brought from another team and slap an engine in it? Hell yeah! Like thats the 500, anyone who enters has a chance, bump day is one of the most tense qualifying sessions in our sport...
You could argue that in extreme cases thr charter system would compromise on drivers safety. E.g. If a car barely manage to keep above 300 kph (180 mph) and all of a sudden a pack of cars appear behind them going 3-4 wide at 370 kph (231 mph).
Then you just do what F2 did and make sure cars cannot take part in qualifying if they can't set competitive laps in practice. Charter systems have been in motorsport for decades.
Ah hell no. Why should guys like Helio Castroneves get an automatic spot every year just because of their team, being previous winners, etc? This is absolutely disgusting.
Penske doesn't wants one of his cars going home.but day is special it still means something. If chase Elliott in NASCAR how that story would be that a hms miss the race that what kind of drama it can bring.
All the people screaming for Mark Miles and Roger Penske's heads and not realizing that the only people fighting for guaranteed entries are the Big 4 teams is pure satire 😂
Makes sense, a car owner is in charge of the Indy 500. He will makes rules to protect the owners and screw the fans. Hate to say it, but this will be the beginning of the fast demise of the IRL. The one thing that the Hulman's pushed for was the tradition of the Indy 500. :(
I like how Indy League is arguing that because this bad idea was thought of a while ago, is a reason to do it now. No. It was a bad idea then, and it still is.
I only want the fastest 33 cars/drivers on the grid for the Indy 500 full stop …… but I can understand the season long teams getting the hump if the only race that they don’t race at is the Indy 500 …… I’ve always thought a fair compromise is if an Indy only car/cars makes the race that they have to put 1% off any race winnings into a big pot for each season long car that Doesn’t make the cut…… (so example 2 main cars knocked out the 33 field then 2% tax to be paid into the pot) and then that pot only gets shared equally amongst the cars/charters in that particular situation …… that way even though the big teams aren’t guaranteed to enter every single race at least they will get a little tiny bit off “insurance “ money if they aren’t in the 33 off the big race off the season as a partial compensation ! ???
A charter system might literally kill the series, because nobody will want to be a driver in solely IndyCar. IndyCar has few race events with most having low payouts compared to NASCAR, WRC, and the FIA continental touring car series. Most IndyCar drivers do IndyCar early in the year and then do ALMS, WEC, and Trans-Am in the latter half of the year because they couldn't continue their careers otherwise. And this is a good thing, because it keeps people watching all four series due to them being able to recognize drivers and team owners and creates better drivers through the diversity of cars and conditions. IndyCar still hasn't recovered from the USAC CART split. Them isolating themselves in an effort to copy NASCAR's system that hurts NASCAR as much as it helps is most likely a fatal blow, because IndyCar can't suffer an injury that NASCAR and WEC could survive.
The 25/8 rule is what killed American open wheel racing more so then just the split in itself and we're supposed to pretend one of NASCAR's two worst ideas coming to Indy is a good idea?
This series should just run Indianapolis and Indianapolis ONLY. Solves all of the ridiculous problems this series has. Make the whole month a spectacle. It is BEYOND QUITE EVIDENT that the series is beyond unmanageable. Nobody has a clue on what’s going on
Thanks for getting back too these videos bfm..I would have not known about this other wise..don't think indy has enough cars and teams too need a charter system
The problem at Indianapolis is we haven't had "Real" qualifying like people remember from "The Good Old Days" for over a decade. Thanks to engine leases Honda and Chevrolet have no incentive to build any more engines than they absolutely have to. So you have a situation like last May where "Bump" day was 4 cars going for 3 spots in the back row. Oooh, exciting. 🙄 In 2022 we had exactly 33 cars attempt and qualify, 2021 had five cars going for the last three spots (the big story was Will Power squeaking in), 2020 had exactly 33 cars qualify, 2019 was a bit more exciting with six cars going for the last three spots (the aforementioned Alonso getting bumped by Kyle Kaiser), 2018 saw two cars miss (Pippa and Hinchcliffe). In 2017 the 500 struggled to get 33 cars, 2016 had no bumping, 2015 saw four cars go for the last three spots, and 2014 had no bumping. So over the last ten years the most cars we've had is 2019 with 36 cars trying for 33 spots. The days of 40 or 50 cars going for 33 spots, with someone trying a wild banzai run at 5:59 PM on Bump Day are long gone. So if they go to guaranteed spots, I'd say go ahead, you're pretty close to a guaranteed spot at Indianapolis for the 500 anyhow. 🤣It's not like Honda or Chevy are going to crank out engines to fill out 60 leases anytime soon. If you're a team with anything on the ball, you're in the field. Unless you're RLL Racing. (JK Graham. 😉) That said, I am realistic enough to remember that during the "salad days" of the Indy 500 of the 1980s and 90s before The Split, there were years that maybe one car bumped into the field. Also, I remember Buick supplied a lot of their stock-block V6 engines to fill out the 500 field. You'd be somewhat assured of making the 500 with one. Finishing the 500 with one was another thing entirely. 🧨 I would want, like others here, as many cars to attempt to make the Indianapolis 500 field as possible. I do want it to happen to cement the legacy of how special the race is. However, unless the rulebooks are opened up and additional engine and chassis combinations appear, I don't see it happening.
Well as the race is not really affected, it does not bother me too much, but i totally understand your points. IMO they should also keep it like it was. Its also good for investors to have an exciting race or quali ;)
Before the era of cookie cutter cars, bump day was really exciting with shoe string teams desperate to make the field in older cars. Drivers ride hopping and sometimes going out to qualify with only a couple laps in that car. Before wings and ground effects when the driver could make the difference. It used to be "The Month of May" because no team tested year round. Many times more than 60 cars were entered, sure some of them were too slow to even make a qualifying run but back then it was something to even be there. For those too young to have seen it you really missed it. Pole day had crowds almost as big as race day. Now race tracks have to have different colored seats so it looks like the stands are full. (mostly in Nascar) Lastly, How much further than 500 miles are they actually going with all the snake like zig zagging they do today?
Simple solution: Turn Indy 500 Qualifying into a separate race event with points and prize money given as if it's a separate race in the championship. So, the race and qualifying is a double points a event for the championship. Example: a driver could get 30 point for qualifying 5th and 50 points for winning the 500.
Charters in NASCAR solved the problem of start and park taking the place of full effort entries (and everything else mentioned). What problem does an IndyCar charter solve?
Are they out of their minds??? A charter system will sink IndyCar. The NASCAR charter system has really done a number on NASCAR. You don't have very many go or go home drivers in NASCAR and many times you don't even have 40 cars in the Cup races. Entry lists have really shrunk since putting in a charter system in NASCAR. It was already a problem when they locked in the top 35 in owner points. Now it's even worse. They need to get away from charters in NASCAR. IndyCar is making a huge mistake. I ask you again. Are they out of their minds???
Last year I was almost in tears when Rahal didn’t make it. And this was as I was in the hospital with my wife and less than 1 day old son. The happiness of his birth was almost overshadowed by my driver failing to qualify. But that’s what makes Indy special. 33 fastest. 34th goes home. Period.
We live in a timeline where NASCAR is prevailing and open-wheel leagues are fading (1st F1 with their street races, then NASCAR beating half the field at Le Mans, and now this). At this point, the Captain is the Brian of this whole debacle
F1 is fading how? Also the NASCAR at Le Mans wasn’t actually competing it in a classic of its own. Not against the GTEs and LMP2 that other was faster than. It was a publicity move nothing else.
I participate in an NR2003 semi-offline racing league (for those that don't know what I mean, we sign up to put our name on a car, but the racing itself is fairly hands-off), and the biggest race they run each year is the Indy 250, which is basically a half-length Indy 500 (fairly self-explanatory). They have the same Bump Day tradition as the 500, and until last year, every car that got bumped from the field was a full-time driver in the channel's IndyCar series; from 2015 to 2023, there was only one Indy-only driver to get bumped (which, rather unfortunately, was me). Am I bothered by it? Well, yeah, but not much more than any Indy-bumped driver should be. I know what I was signing up for, and I was completely willing to accept whatever result came my way. That's what makes Indy special: getting to race is an achievement in and of itself. You're not promised anything, you _have_ to work your way in. Locking teams or drivers into the field, regardless of how important they are to the series, discredits any significance of them being in the race.
I’ll throw in a counter argument because why not, if Indycar fans really valued the sanctity of bump day, they should’ve been campaigning as hard as they are now for Graham Rahal to not be allowed to race last year? How can you have a guy get bumped and then still be allowed to race?
How many of you are pissed off about Andretti/Cadillac not being allowed into F1? This I what happens if Charter/Franchises are introduced. Only teams that have bought their way into the system are allowed to race, including the despicable Haas team!
If there would be wild cards for the Indy 500, please make them deserved too. Like only 5 - for the defending IndyCar champion, the defending Indy500 winner, the Indy GP winner, the winner of the first oval of the season (or the best performer on ovals in the past season) and if they differ, the current season leader in the general standings. At most those! It's even better when you would need to qualify regardles of who you are.
I have been an Indy fan since 1959 when I was 8 years old. I can't say that the guaranteed spots would be the worst decision. They claimed that spot when they split US open-wheeled racing in the split. There will never be a decision worse than that. It destroyed the greatest spectacle in motor racing by diluting competition. But they can secure the second place worst decision in motor sports by a charter system to determine the field. The greatest thing about Indy was that anyone could compete - the Allied Van Lines Special - independent racers who brought great cars. It is not a competitive sport if there is a class of people who automatically get to compete.
Need to learn from NASCAR and not even consider tinkering with anything. NASCAR is still successful and profitable but it will NEVER have the same aura it once had. Playoffs destroyed the prestige of winning a championship. Charters killed new owners from entering the cup series, full fields are a thing of the past. It's even trickling down into trucks, only 32 entries in consecutive weeks. Also messing with historic things will forever tarnish the event. The Daytona 500 doesn't feel big anymore without the speedweeks it used to have. It went from two weeks with the clash and qualifying the weekend before to an abbreviated schedule where the duels are pointless because nobody shows up anymore because it's not even profitable. Don't ruin the one last event thats kept its tradition sacred.
If the Indy 500 had guaranteed starting spots, after about 5 years the whole 2 day qualifying thing will be ditched for a single day session that probably only lasts a few hours, and after that happens the practices would likely be cut and it'll all become a under single week event like the Daytona 500 has become. Wednesday to Sunday.
Here's a good way to explain the charter system to a broader sports audience: It's March, the NCAA March Madness basketball tournaments are coming up. Let's say all the power five conference teams (the main big schools) are allowed to advance through the first two rounds even if they lose, because, screw small colleges... We can say goodbye to moments like UMBC defeating #1 seed Virginia in 2018. But guess what happened. In 2019, Virginia won the whole tournament. Big teams/drivers failing can be a learning opportunity for them, something to continue to strive for. That's the point of this video and why we don't want the charter system in place.
With IndyCar barely filling the field for the 500 as they have been the last couple years due to funding, engine availability... why are they now so worried about locking in spots for teams? Gimme a break, we know why a charter system is being discu$$ed.
I love the Indy 500 and the qualifying. How many stories of guys mortgaging their homes to the max just for a shot did you hear about? …also the venerable Buick V6 entries with boost maxxed out! Awesome
This is the 25/8 rule all over again. I hope that they realize what they are doing before its too late. Fans have a massive say in Indycar especially since it doesnt have the fan support of NASCAR. If they lose ratings and ticket revenue from this, its a big "I told you so" from us
AGAINST!!!!!!! Fans lose horribly because why even watch if no tension watching drivers. Also, if a car isn't up to speed it's even more dangerous like when a car on the interstate can't even run half the speed of traffic. Your video is well put👏👏👏👏🏎🏁
I would only agree with guaranteed entries if the top 4 drivers (or cars) that finished the previous IndyCar season (2023 in this case) were guaranteed a spot in the race but not a starting position. After that, it is fair game. 4 may be a little low or high. Or the previous year's series champion (or car if the driver moves to another series like Montoya did) is guaranteed a spot as is the previous year's Indy 500 winner. Otherwise, they have to qualify.
I'm for most everything Daily says on anything. (I'm not for going back to high banked ovals without extensive testing...) But, yeah, the charter system would be fine for all the other races, but the 500 is like Le Mans. Yes, you get points for a championship, but the 500 it's it's thing, and was for for 80+ years with a separate sanctioning body and rule set outside of the IndyCar season.
If they have guaranteed spots in the Indy 500 it will be the worst decision they ever made.
Indy 500 qualifying is a tradition you take that away with guaranteed spots.
Didn't we just go through this a couple years ago? Now again?!? The fastest 33 is "The One Tradition" that absolutely can NOT be screwed with!!!
It's crap.
I don't want charters in the indy 500 the whole qualifying process for the indy 500 is always interesting when theres a 33+ field because you always wonder whos gonna make it a driver who's solid when it comes to driving a indycar or a underdog thats why qualifying is its own show of its own
easy solution make the cars cheaper so the teams dont have to spend so much on the race, it takes sponsors to make the teams run
I love how IndyCar went from having good news such as IndyCar returning to iRacing and retuning to Nashville Superspeedway too constant bad news again…
- focusing on street course marketing
- Charters
- probably returning to Nashville Streets in a few years
Being an IndyCar fan is so hard…
Charters are garbage and it’s not the right way to build a team. Not only that, this is an insult towards the Indy 500, Bump Day, and the sport in general.
This is like the 25/8 rule 2.0
It's been WELL over a decade since the death of Dan Wheldon, I think it's about time IndyCar stop giving ovals the cold shoulder.
@@crystaljon nobody is gonna learn or improvise 2011 Vegas and fix things for the better by just “not going”.
Not only 2011 Vegas is the reason, but terrible marketing and lack of attendances are also the problems with the ovals that isn’t the Indy 500
@@crystaljon I’m sure Dan wants to see them race on more ovals again
@@crystaljon You would also think they run a low downforce aero package now like Nascar runs at intermediates. As opposed to the cars racing in big packs like when we lost Dan
I mean kill me if you like, but as a newish fan to motorsports (I've ween watching F1 for a few seasons now, and have branched out into V8 Supercars, WEC, and I watched a few NASCAR and IndyCar events as well), most ovals just aren't very entertaining to watch. Most are too same-y and it just gets so monotonous I just wind up getting bored and zoned out. I know I know, overtakes and all, but they're so common on ovals as to not really inspire emotion, unless it's at the front. Road/Street circuits are just far more interesting visually imho. No smoke to IndyCar fans, or fans of oval racing in general, again, this is just an opinion lol. But NASCAR for example has always been most interesting to when at Super Speedways and Road Courses.
I feel like Indycar is endlessly shooting itself in both of its feet.
They should just race Indianapolis and make that whole month one big spectacle
not pulling out of Motorsport Games, 4 ovals in 2024, no games after that Xbox 360 game
@@widiwoqm1544Actually there are 5 ovals including Indy, and 7 races total (Iowa and Milwaukee Mile having back to back weekends). Thats DEFINITELY a positive imo. But yes, the Motorsport Games debacle is definitely something, and ofc this BS charter system for the Indy 500
It doesnt have feet
@@AgentsCinematicUniverse Not anymore!
It needs to be the fastest 33 cars and drivers. No owner spots. It's the Indy 500!
Roger Penske is a successful team owner and a real shitty IndyCar owner.
He helped caused the second split in 1990's and a bigger change then one in 1960's where Dirt tracks were going away from most sports with some Kart or similar racing exceptions. Also, in NASCAR his racers are some of most hated with Joey Lagano and formerly Kyle Bush.
@@caseysmith544Don't you mean Brad K?
he's probably killing it to get old nascar fans back.......imagine that 🙄
@@caseysmith544 Kyle Busch never raced for Penske. It was Kurt Busch
Kyle Busch raced for Hendrick, JGR and RCR. You thinking of his brother, who he fired for being a complete ass.
The whole idea of charters in IndyCar makes no sense considering the fields for non-Indy 500 races are already pretty sizable and the 500 itself is the only race enough cars try to qualify and where there’s a “Bump Day.” IndyCar has already been going the wrong direction under Penske’s leadership for the most part (let alone the downhill slope beforehand for years), and if they implement a charter system of any kind that rids the traditions of qualifying and Bump Day for the 500, I’m done with IndyCar.
UA-cam's god emperor of Indycar (David Land) is DEFINITELY going to have something to say about this you can bank on that
More like head jackass
@TJ89741 He probably heard the news, got ticked off and decided to just cover NASCAR and IMSA this year.
I can only imagine how angry he'll be
@fiatfan83 I've been watching David Land since 2015 and while you may be spot on target. I would be extremely interested as to HOW he "rubbed a ton of professionals the wrong way?" Just curious for my own personal edification. Thanks.
a charter where drivers cannot drive in another series? That will surely backfire on them
Yeah, they literally carve out the month of June just so drivers can go to Le Mans. Why would they torpedo that? All that'll do is encourage drivers to move to IMSA
I think the idea is that teams aren't allowed to start or join a series that competes directly with the series they're chartered in. IE another stock car series or another American open wheel series. Doesn't stop them from expanding into other forms of motorsports
they wouldnt be able to drive in f1 or a series like that, they still can drive in the endurance races
@redred222 where would that leave the Andretti campaign to join F1? Would they then be getting pressure from both directions to stick to Indycar?
It's more of a don't race in another top level US based formula series. It wouldn't affect sports car, stock car, international series, or lower level formulas.
What a terrible idea! Indy 500 pole and bump day is one of the best days in motorsports; there's no good reason to ruin it by implementing somehting that's already a problem in NASCAR (don't get me started with Formula One and its "franchise style model").
As Darian said, some of the best moments in IndyCar (and motorsport) history have been delivered by this, and the only time it was broken it happened due to Tony George's greed and was thankfully scrapped a few years after being implemented. The only winners in something like this are big team owners at the expense of smaller entries, including Indy 500 only guys like Kyle Kaiser and Juncos were that day in 2019.
One of the most exciting things about May is watching the practices for Indy and seeing who might make the field and if any big names miss it
And then qualifying where you watch and hope your favorite driver at LEAST makes the show
It’s so exciting and the fact it might be taken away would suck so much
Indycar really fucking up like really
IndyCar's been its own worst enemy for decades.
@@briantaylor9285 You know what I'm blaming it on Tony George
1995 called and said this was a horrible idea.
Indycar saw the mistake NASCAR made and said, “We can make it so much worse”.
An IndyCar "hold my beer" moment.
I hate it when business takes priority for the survival of a series at the cost of tradition and fanfare
A return to the 25-8 rule shows IndyCar (IRL) has never moved on from Tony George nor 1996 entirely
Hot take: Keep the charter system away from the Indy 500. Rest of the season, who knows, perhaps a charter "rental" for one season. Continuing, instead of going the hybrid V6 route, Indycar as a whole really should just allow any plug & play GT3/DPI engine that can fit at this point with Honda leaving and the series as a whole seeming to circle the drain outside of the Indy 500.
Good way to make the indy 500 just another race.
Bump day should always be a part of the event. Making the race is as much a spectacle as the race itself.
This would be the beginning to the end of indycar.
Its already dead, indy is the only place that there is more fans than hot dog vendors in the seats.
That already started with the chassis/engine/manufacturer issues and delays.
Why?... Just why?...
Why does every single racing series want to do all of NASCAR's *stupidest* moves/decisions?
Because Nascar is watched by the masses and the masses are stupid.
When will IndyCar stop trying to be open-wheel NASCAR?
Fitting your playing Persona 5 music because someone needs to change the hearts of Indycar's management.
Motorsports Bust Charter Systems.
The are really trying kill INDYCAR, now messing around with the Indy 500 .😢
If you havent noticed its mostly dead now, nobody cares anymore
@@kdmigloo No I haven't noticed yet, but thank you for the info 😊
@@kdmigloo Guess you didnt see how many people turned up yesterday and waited out the storm,
@@davidgray1515 check the turnout next week, there will be more hotdog vendors than fans
I'm all for the tradition of the fastest 33 earning their spots based on merit. Charters will certainly devalue the Indianapolis 500 mile race in terms of tradition, and the same concern I remember CART team owners having in 1996 are literally creeping up again as you mentioned, and is that want the sponsors really want? Side note: On of the best days at Indy is Bump day. 2000 & 2001, Billy Boat was dramatically on the bubble twice & survived. It's an underrated moment that makes Indy, Indy. Qualifying for this race is just as special as the invitation to the Le Mans 24 Hours. One of a kind.
Cliche as it is, gonna toss 1993 and 1995 in as the other great Bump Days, the will they/won't they of Penske in 95, the tears from Bobby in 93 and Graham being bumped out in 23...
I feel that Indycar is making decisions aimed at alienating the core fan base. I know that is not on purpose, but for years I've wondered if Miles is a fan. Every year I go to a race, and its not always the same race. So I have a novel idea. If you can't qualify for the race you don't get to race!
Screw a charter system. They need to put their attention to trying to keep Honda in Indycar and not lose them to NASCAR
I can see why someone would want a charter system, but it goes completely against the idea of the 500. That’s what makes the 500 so special.
What Is You Doing Roger Penske???
Money money money
Fucking it up, of course.
Making shitty decisions before the dementia kicks in
are*
@tubesoupio Some people say "what is you doing" too
I already hate the charter system in Nascar. You shouldn't be able to piss off on qualy day because you know you're in the field. No, you need to earn your spot.
I had an absolute blast watching qualifying and bump day last year. It was an absolute thriller watching Rahal, one of the biggest names in IndyCar, DNQ for the biggest race of the year. A charter system will take all of that away
Under no circumstances should the qualifying format for the Indy500 be changed. However, one possibility would be that teams taking part in the championship would still receive points even if they cannot qualify for the race. Teams that only take part in the Indy 500 do not receive any championship points and everyone else receives them according to their position in the race or position in qualifying. So at least the damage to the teams in terms of the championship would be less.
The issue here is that every car that makes the field and starts the race gets at least one point. All of the drivers that finish towards the back only get 1 point, i.e. finishing 32nd doesn't get you any more points than 33rd. Off the top of my head I cannot remember how far up you have to finish before you get 2 points, but it is somewhere in the mid-20s. So, yeah, you could say that "you would have qualified 34th but were bumped so we will give you position 34 points" but that would still only be 1 point. I certainly don't think they deserve higher than 34th position points if they don't qualify, even if they are a full-time entry.
They already took the Indy 500 double-points away to help out teams that don't make it. I wonder which full time teams are so concerned about being so crappy that they won't make the field. Probably the same ones that would rather race the Nashville streets vs. the speedway.
All ranks from 26th to 33nd get 5 points. There is no differentiation. @@ramblinman4197
Andrew Craig was right ! However Tony George wanted the biggest piece of the pie being advised by his family the Hulman George family which always had a beef with CART up until the infamous spirit trying to hijack emotions of the fan base would wanted to see the homegrown USAC talent have a legitimate chance to win and were up in arms over the CART teams huge budgets of their programs. However ever since then it seems like the want to always want to be smaller than NASCAR ever since they came to Indy in 1994.
As I've said many times, one of the things that made A.J. Foyt's record of 35 consecutive Indy 500s as a driver so incredible is not just that it was during one of the most dangerous periods in racing history. It was that he had to actually QUALIFY for all those races. There were no provisional spots, no charters, you had to be one of the 33 fastest -- and that was back when you'd have 60 or more cars trying to make the race.
Maybe I'm jumping the gun but lets just hope this doesn't get too big in the motorsport world to the point where WEC and other forms of motorsport consider putting a charter system for events like Le mans. 🤞
F1 is a charter system essentially.
Correct
WEC already has a Charter system my dude.
If you don't make hyperpole at Le mans you just start at the back of the grid there's no drop day. All 62 entries are guaranteed a start.
@@louiscypher4186 because its invite only
Aww yeah the 25/8 rule is back baby!
Bring back the Infiniti V8s!
The only two that should be guaranteed to race this year’s Indianapolis 500 are Josef Newgarden (defending winner) and Alex Palou (defending IndyCar champion)
That’s lame
Ok, I don't disagree, but how would you handle the case where one of those drivers would have changed teams between last year and this year ?
@@NicoGorsberg they would still be guaranteed to race, even if they switch teams
@@johnvandeventer8668 but winning the Indy 500 is a huge team work. Why rewarding the driver only ?
I like this idea.
At this point This series is beyond a 5 alarm dumpster fire. 3 steps forwards & 9 steps backwards
The daytona 500 has already been dumbed down we dont need Indy being dumbed down
Yes a Bit by having the Clash ruined as a demolition derby then having qualifying races unaired.
One of the best things to do (and early on) in a video about a "charter system" would be to explain wtf a charter system is. Other than that, great job.
At this point I'm used to IndyCar's spotty decision making, which has really been going on for about 50+ years as of now. Growing up in Indianapolis, I always have a soft spot for the series(s), and their long history of baffling moves makes it difficult for a larger audience to understand why IndyCar/American Open Wheel is so awesome.
Didn't Penske have a fit when Tony George had 25 IRL guaranteed starters in one of the 500's in the 90's. He then went to organize the CART US 500 at Michigan (the track he owned) that ran against the Indy 500. Maybe Roger is thinking we forgot. We haven't.
IndyCar are really trying hard to take the heat off the problems in F1 right now, aren't they?
Speaking from afar as a European viewer, this seems to be a completely insane idea that destroys much of the value of the event for the spectators. It goes some way to converting the race from a true competition to a "sporting spectacle" like professional wrestling.
It's akin to the way in which US American Football, Soccer and other "league" sports have no relegation for the bottom-finishing teams (plus promotion for the topmost teams in the next lower division), and are thus not taken seriously worldwide. If your current division membership (and income levels) for next season aren't on the line, why strive to win right up to the end of the season?
Nope! Do not like the idea at all!
It is the one race of the year where nothing is guaranteed... You wanna rock up with last year's chassis you brought from another team and slap an engine in it? Hell yeah!
Like thats the 500, anyone who enters has a chance, bump day is one of the most tense qualifying sessions in our sport...
You could argue that in extreme cases thr charter system would compromise on drivers safety.
E.g. If a car barely manage to keep above 300 kph (180 mph) and all of a sudden a pack of cars appear behind them going 3-4 wide at 370 kph (231 mph).
The days of truly awful teams and drivers are gone. Indy car is very competitive 1-27
Then you just do what F2 did and make sure cars cannot take part in qualifying if they can't set competitive laps in practice.
Charter systems have been in motorsport for decades.
Ah hell no. Why should guys like Helio Castroneves get an automatic spot every year just because of their team, being previous winners, etc? This is absolutely disgusting.
Penske doesn't wants one of his cars going home.but day is special it still means something.
If chase Elliott in NASCAR how that story would be that a hms miss the race that what kind of drama it can bring.
Remember when the best car/driver combos made the 500 regardless of politics... good times, good times...
All the people screaming for Mark Miles and Roger Penske's heads and not realizing that the only people fighting for guaranteed entries are the Big 4 teams is pure satire 😂
Roger's name is on one of those Big 4 teams so I think it applies here.
Makes sense, a car owner is in charge of the Indy 500. He will makes rules to protect the owners and screw the fans. Hate to say it, but this will be the beginning of the fast demise of the IRL. The one thing that the Hulman's pushed for was the tradition of the Indy 500. :(
I like how Indy League is arguing that because this bad idea was thought of a while ago, is a reason to do it now. No. It was a bad idea then, and it still is.
I only want the fastest 33 cars/drivers on the grid for the Indy 500 full stop …… but I can understand the season long teams getting the hump if the only race that they don’t race at is the Indy 500 …… I’ve always thought a fair compromise is if an Indy only car/cars makes the race that they have to put 1% off any race winnings into a big pot for each season long car that Doesn’t make the cut…… (so example 2 main cars knocked out the 33 field then 2% tax to be paid into the pot) and then that pot only gets shared equally amongst the cars/charters in that particular situation …… that way even though the big teams aren’t guaranteed to enter every single race at least they will get a little tiny bit off “insurance “ money if they aren’t in the 33 off the big race off the season as a partial compensation ! ???
A charter system might literally kill the series, because nobody will want to be a driver in solely IndyCar. IndyCar has few race events with most having low payouts compared to NASCAR, WRC, and the FIA continental touring car series. Most IndyCar drivers do IndyCar early in the year and then do ALMS, WEC, and Trans-Am in the latter half of the year because they couldn't continue their careers otherwise. And this is a good thing, because it keeps people watching all four series due to them being able to recognize drivers and team owners and creates better drivers through the diversity of cars and conditions. IndyCar still hasn't recovered from the USAC CART split. Them isolating themselves in an effort to copy NASCAR's system that hurts NASCAR as much as it helps is most likely a fatal blow, because IndyCar can't suffer an injury that NASCAR and WEC could survive.
It's the 1% ers being so out of touch with what matters & making terrible decisions
With the same cars for 12 years and the guaranteed spots in the field, I’m seriously considering not attending anymore after nearly 30 years.
The 25/8 rule is what killed American open wheel racing more so then just the split in itself and we're supposed to pretend one of NASCAR's two worst ideas coming to Indy is a good idea?
I would argue that for nascar the Daytona 500 , Coca-Cola 600 and Brickyard 400 shouldn’t have locked in spots
Roger Penske boycotted the Indy 500 with the 25/8 rule in place. Now he’s trying to guarantee starting spots.
This series should just run Indianapolis and Indianapolis ONLY. Solves all of the ridiculous problems this series has. Make the whole month a spectacle. It is BEYOND QUITE EVIDENT that the series is beyond unmanageable. Nobody has a clue on what’s going on
Thanks for getting back too these videos bfm..I would have not known about this other wise..don't think indy has enough cars and teams too need a charter system
They will NEVER ruin the Indy 500 like that until AI takes over next year. 😊
The problem at Indianapolis is we haven't had "Real" qualifying like people remember from "The Good Old Days" for over a decade. Thanks to engine leases Honda and Chevrolet have no incentive to build any more engines than they absolutely have to. So you have a situation like last May where "Bump" day was 4 cars going for 3 spots in the back row. Oooh, exciting. 🙄
In 2022 we had exactly 33 cars attempt and qualify, 2021 had five cars going for the last three spots (the big story was Will Power squeaking in), 2020 had exactly 33 cars qualify, 2019 was a bit more exciting with six cars going for the last three spots (the aforementioned Alonso getting bumped by Kyle Kaiser), 2018 saw two cars miss (Pippa and Hinchcliffe). In 2017 the 500 struggled to get 33 cars, 2016 had no bumping, 2015 saw four cars go for the last three spots, and 2014 had no bumping.
So over the last ten years the most cars we've had is 2019 with 36 cars trying for 33 spots. The days of 40 or 50 cars going for 33 spots, with someone trying a wild banzai run at 5:59 PM on Bump Day are long gone.
So if they go to guaranteed spots, I'd say go ahead, you're pretty close to a guaranteed spot at Indianapolis for the 500 anyhow. 🤣It's not like Honda or Chevy are going to crank out engines to fill out 60 leases anytime soon. If you're a team with anything on the ball, you're in the field.
Unless you're RLL Racing. (JK Graham. 😉)
That said, I am realistic enough to remember that during the "salad days" of the Indy 500 of the 1980s and 90s before The Split, there were years that maybe one car bumped into the field. Also, I remember Buick supplied a lot of their stock-block V6 engines to fill out the 500 field. You'd be somewhat assured of making the 500 with one. Finishing the 500 with one was another thing entirely. 🧨
I would want, like others here, as many cars to attempt to make the Indianapolis 500 field as possible. I do want it to happen to cement the legacy of how special the race is. However, unless the rulebooks are opened up and additional engine and chassis combinations appear, I don't see it happening.
They can’t do this… this is the last thing left from old motor sport outside of the Isle of Man tt. Genuinely
Roger Penske is Tony George 2.0. He have all the ods to finally put American Open Wheel Racing to the grave.
Well as the race is not really affected, it does not bother me too much, but i totally understand your points. IMO they should also keep it like it was. Its also good for investors to have an exciting race or quali ;)
Before the era of cookie cutter cars, bump day was really exciting with shoe string teams desperate to make the field in older cars. Drivers ride hopping and sometimes going out to qualify with only a couple laps in that car. Before wings and ground effects when the driver could make the difference. It used to be "The Month of May" because no team tested year round. Many times more than 60 cars were entered, sure some of them were too slow to even make a qualifying run but back then it was something to even be there. For those too young to have seen it you really missed it. Pole day had crowds almost as big as race day. Now race tracks have to have different colored seats so it looks like the stands are full. (mostly in Nascar) Lastly, How much further than 500 miles are they actually going with all the snake like zig zagging they do today?
Simple solution: Turn Indy 500 Qualifying into a separate race event with points and prize money given as if it's a separate race in the championship. So, the race and qualifying is a double points a event for the championship. Example: a driver could get 30 point for qualifying 5th and 50 points for winning the 500.
Charters in NASCAR solved the problem of start and park taking the place of full effort entries (and everything else mentioned). What problem does an IndyCar charter solve?
Are they out of their minds??? A charter system will sink IndyCar. The NASCAR charter system has really done a number on NASCAR. You don't have very many go or go home drivers in NASCAR and many times you don't even have 40 cars in the Cup races. Entry lists have really shrunk since putting in a charter system in NASCAR. It was already a problem when they locked in the top 35 in owner points. Now it's even worse. They need to get away from charters in NASCAR. IndyCar is making a huge mistake. I ask you again. Are they out of their minds???
Last year I was almost in tears when Rahal didn’t make it. And this was as I was in the hospital with my wife and less than 1 day old son. The happiness of his birth was almost overshadowed by my driver failing to qualify. But that’s what makes Indy special. 33 fastest. 34th goes home. Period.
Seeing that wheel fly out of the track still scares the shit out of me
5:35 Nice one Conor Daly!
More then 33 cars at Indy 500 is. Dream come true.
We live in a timeline where NASCAR is prevailing and open-wheel leagues are fading (1st F1 with their street races, then NASCAR beating half the field at Le Mans, and now this). At this point, the Captain is the Brian of this whole debacle
F1 is fading how? Also the NASCAR at Le Mans wasn’t actually competing it in a classic of its own. Not against the GTEs and LMP2 that other was faster than. It was a publicity move nothing else.
Nascar is growing that's what he means @@rexthewolf3149
f1 viewership dropped last yr coz of max dominating the field
The cup car at Le Mans was there on a fun run as an invitational car.
I participate in an NR2003 semi-offline racing league (for those that don't know what I mean, we sign up to put our name on a car, but the racing itself is fairly hands-off), and the biggest race they run each year is the Indy 250, which is basically a half-length Indy 500 (fairly self-explanatory).
They have the same Bump Day tradition as the 500, and until last year, every car that got bumped from the field was a full-time driver in the channel's IndyCar series; from 2015 to 2023, there was only one Indy-only driver to get bumped (which, rather unfortunately, was me).
Am I bothered by it? Well, yeah, but not much more than any Indy-bumped driver should be. I know what I was signing up for, and I was completely willing to accept whatever result came my way. That's what makes Indy special: getting to race is an achievement in and of itself. You're not promised anything, you _have_ to work your way in. Locking teams or drivers into the field, regardless of how important they are to the series, discredits any significance of them being in the race.
I’ll throw in a counter argument because why not, if Indycar fans really valued the sanctity of bump day, they should’ve been campaigning as hard as they are now for Graham Rahal to not be allowed to race last year? How can you have a guy get bumped and then still be allowed to race?
I think the happy medium would be to have the charter system in place for all the other races and keep the Indy 500 as an open race
How many of you are pissed off about Andretti/Cadillac not being allowed into F1? This I what happens if Charter/Franchises are introduced. Only teams that have bought their way into the system are allowed to race, including the despicable Haas team!
Every type of car should be allowed qualifying attempts to enter the Indy 500. That will make it more interesting.
"Woah, that's really important." I'll bet the teams owners said something more like, "no effin' way!"
If there would be wild cards for the Indy 500, please make them deserved too. Like only 5 - for the defending IndyCar champion, the defending Indy500 winner, the Indy GP winner, the winner of the first oval of the season (or the best performer on ovals in the past season) and if they differ, the current season leader in the general standings. At most those! It's even better when you would need to qualify regardles of who you are.
I have been an Indy fan since 1959 when I was 8 years old. I can't say that the guaranteed spots would be the worst decision. They claimed that spot when they split US open-wheeled racing in the split. There will never be a decision worse than that. It destroyed the greatest spectacle in motor racing by diluting competition. But they can secure the second place worst decision in motor sports by a charter system to determine the field. The greatest thing about Indy was that anyone could compete - the Allied Van Lines Special - independent racers who brought great cars. It is not a competitive sport if there is a class of people who automatically get to compete.
We barely have enough cars to even have a bump day and now they want to charter teams? Do they want to even have a 33 car field?
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Remember the USAC vs. CART debacle?
3:35 this was before McLaren bought into the Arrow SP team. It was them on their own for that race.
Can we just remove charters from racing all together? Thanks
Need to learn from NASCAR and not even consider tinkering with anything. NASCAR is still successful and profitable but it will NEVER have the same aura it once had. Playoffs destroyed the prestige of winning a championship. Charters killed new owners from entering the cup series, full fields are a thing of the past. It's even trickling down into trucks, only 32 entries in consecutive weeks. Also messing with historic things will forever tarnish the event. The Daytona 500 doesn't feel big anymore without the speedweeks it used to have. It went from two weeks with the clash and qualifying the weekend before to an abbreviated schedule where the duels are pointless because nobody shows up anymore because it's not even profitable. Don't ruin the one last event thats kept its tradition sacred.
🏁Interesting vid 🏁
If the Indy 500 had guaranteed starting spots, after about 5 years the whole 2 day qualifying thing will be ditched for a single day session that probably only lasts a few hours, and after that happens the practices would likely be cut and it'll all become a under single week event like the Daytona 500 has become. Wednesday to Sunday.
Moronic idea. Hell, qualifying for the Indy 500 is how you should GET a charter. No qualify, no charter
Here's a good way to explain the charter system to a broader sports audience: It's March, the NCAA March Madness basketball tournaments are coming up. Let's say all the power five conference teams (the main big schools) are allowed to advance through the first two rounds even if they lose, because, screw small colleges... We can say goodbye to moments like UMBC defeating #1 seed Virginia in 2018. But guess what happened. In 2019, Virginia won the whole tournament. Big teams/drivers failing can be a learning opportunity for them, something to continue to strive for. That's the point of this video and why we don't want the charter system in place.
With IndyCar barely filling the field for the 500 as they have been the last couple years due to funding, engine availability... why are they now so worried about locking in spots for teams?
Gimme a break, we know why a charter system is being discu$$ed.
I love the Indy 500 and the qualifying. How many stories of guys mortgaging their homes to the max just for a shot did you hear about? …also the venerable Buick V6 entries with boost maxxed out! Awesome
Indy is just becoming nascar 2.0, all of the stupid rules are starting to come over to the sport.
Don't Nascar my Indycar
^ Pin this comment Darian.
This is the 25/8 rule all over again. I hope that they realize what they are doing before its too late. Fans have a massive say in Indycar especially since it doesnt have the fan support of NASCAR. If they lose ratings and ticket revenue from this, its a big "I told you so" from us
First, I liked that they clamped down on dangerous weaving, but I didn't like the priority thing in qualifying at last years indy 500
Trophy dashes and heat races should factor in too.
AGAINST!!!!!!!
Fans lose horribly because why even watch if no tension watching drivers.
Also, if a car isn't up to speed it's even more dangerous like when a car on the interstate can't even run half the speed of traffic.
Your video is well put👏👏👏👏🏎🏁
I would only agree with guaranteed entries if the top 4 drivers (or cars) that finished the previous IndyCar season (2023 in this case) were guaranteed a spot in the race but not a starting position. After that, it is fair game. 4 may be a little low or high. Or the previous year's series champion (or car if the driver moves to another series like Montoya did) is guaranteed a spot as is the previous year's Indy 500 winner. Otherwise, they have to qualify.
I'm for most everything Daily says on anything. (I'm not for going back to high banked ovals without extensive testing...) But, yeah, the charter system would be fine for all the other races, but the 500 is like Le Mans. Yes, you get points for a championship, but the 500 it's it's thing, and was for for 80+ years with a separate sanctioning body and rule set outside of the IndyCar season.