Iris Murdoch on Philosophy and Literature: Section 1
Вставка
- Опубліковано 12 лип 2008
- The areas in which philosophy and literature overlap are examined in this program by renowned Oxford novelist Iris Murdoch. Style and structure in philosophical writing are compared and contrasted with those in literature. The narrative abilities of Plato, Schopenhauer, and Kant are examined. Philosophy's predilection for accepting only literature that supports its theories is discussed as a source of antagonism between the two disciplines.
I wish we had programmes like this now.
we do
I don't, I don't want reruns of old programmes.
@@4nxywhat are they😢
Thank you so much for uploading this! It is wonderful to hear her voice! When I was a teenager I read all her books; Iris Murdoch introduced me to..well, almost everything through her fiction; philosophy, the idea of contingency, love, the classics,..She has been such a major figure in my life, and yet I never heard her beautiful voice or watched her beautiful and kind demeanor until now. It means so much to me! Thank you
In 1998, not long after she was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease, Iris Murdoch disconcerted friends by asking, "Who am I?", a question she almost at once answered herself, "Well I'm Irish anyway, that's something." As the mind of the brilliant novelist and philosopher faded, she still clung to a deep identification with Ireland. Her Irish connection was reflected in a lifetime's intellectual and emotional engagement and - before her illness
Reading "The Sea, the Sea" now and I must say, her command of the novel form is extraordinary. The insights are genuine, the language sharply precise. Every paragraph is a joy to read.
Snap!
"cheering oneself up by giving form to something" -- I like that line
What makes Russell such a master, is his wit. Reading the History of Western Philosophy, one is often riven with laughter, such is his cutting humour.
Amazing to finally hear her voice. It is remarkable that there was such a program on TV. The second question focuses on her sentences describing them as translucent! The 70s was a civilised but slightly shabby period. A quiet different era.
I'm currently one third into "Under the Net". So far it is fantastic. I recomend her fiction to anyone who likes to read.
This is from the BBC "Men of Ideas" series, broadcast before "The Great Philosophers" and to my mind, the better series. From 1963 Iris had been lecturing at the Royal College of Art in London. Bryan Magee actually engages with her in this discussion and the focus is deliberately on what is said.
When he interviewed Martha Nussbaum in the second series, he clearly fancied her. In the time available she was excellent on Aristotle, even though we the viewers, at least this one, felt we were intruding.
Compare this, from the seventies, with the current tv diet of "celebrity" and pop "Wannabees" squawking down the microphone - and laugh or cry depending on your mood or whether you have a decent drink in your hand.
I found out about Iris from an app called Enliven that showed me one of her quotes: 'We can only learn to love by loving."
Murdoch was a totally formed human - she experienced it all - her bio by Conradi is fascinating - the movie Iris was really good.
The rest is uploading, it'll all be up soon!
wow I wish there was more intellectual discussion going on these days. This is remarkably fascinating
Today they would call this elitist. In the US, they prize aggressiveness over intelligence.
I've never heard of her, or this show, but I enjoyed listening to her.
Out of all of these interviews I've seen this is the one where Bryan is most aggressive. Iris was such a genius and amazingly remained humble; choosing to think with him instead of disregarding him making the dialogue richer. Something missing from todays conversations. I wish the feminist movement or whoever promotes over looked women in the arts and philosophy would promote her more.
Iris is awful. She comes across like she is winging it all the time. Muttering incoherently. This is the worst video of the series.
I disagree. i think Bryan Mcgee had something against her. He's more ascertive and pestering than he is with the others. It's the only person he interviews where he feels forced to let the other person know his point of view. "Honest nonsense is better than getting it precisely wrong" is something one of Iris' characters said. I think that answers your criticism rather well. Even if sometimes she does seem wandering. If one reads her it's her giving primacy to honesty instead of bs.
Again, I disagree with you. She wanders a lot. It's annoying and if you know Brian Magee and his style, you already know that the man can summarize a philosopher's statements on the fly with zero hassle. The dialogues in the other videos (especially with Peter Singer) are joyful to watch unfold and never falter in their pace. Murdoch was a bad choice of guest as she requires time to think and then convey her thoughts.
I could agree with that on some level. You are right that this video sticks out. But that fact that shes' the only woman (Martha Nussbaum has a penis) gives it a certain something... I like the way she stayed poised while he tried to somewhat outsmart her in a Bertrand Russelly way... I thought she did a good job and conveying their difference... I would also argue that you should follow what you find annoying about her and not be so entrenched in "getting it right". Tho point taken.
Joe Ruf I take your point
Thanks so much for posting all these great interviews! If you ever find more of this stuff, please do upload it:)
thank u very much we are doing philosphy for a literature module at the moment and having someone like Iris talking about it - it makes it so intresting I could listin to this for hours
Aristotle may have been a good writer - we only have his lecture notes.
Thank you for posting this.
Can anybody tell me when this program was broadcast on TV? I'm writing a dissertation on Iris Murdoch and this video would come in handy...
Wonderful. Thanks for posting. She looks a bit like Hegel.
Wonderful material for the n th time. Many thanks flame0430.
Magee: Do you write differently when you write literature, compared with philosophy?
Murdoch: Yes, literature mystifies, while philosophy clarifies.
Magee: Reading your work, I find that literature mystifies, while philosophy clarifies. Haha!
Murdoch: Yes, that's about it.
Magee: So - I think I'm recalling your words correctly - you say that philosophy clarifies, while literature mystifies? Would that be right?
Murdoch: Yes.
hmm.
So she thinks literature is the same as philosophy.
The second video is far more powerful. I might say its the deepest philosophy video I have seen.
🎁IRIS MURDOCH MERCHANDISE🎁
Unisex t-shirts with an exclusive Iris Murdoch illustration:
‘Art and the Good with Iris Murdoch’
💲SIGN UP WITH YOUR EMAIL FOR A £5 DISCOUNT💲
Pick a colour and order straight to your door 👇👇👇
www.phlexiblephilosophy.com/merchandise
Dame Iris Murdoch 👏🏻👏🏻📚📚👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 real Platonist
how is this not on TV anymore???
Very enjoyable thank you
Hegel's writing is notoriously difficult and can be challenging to understand, especially for those not well-versed in philosophy. Here's an example from his "Phenomenology of Spirit" that is often cited as being particularly difficult to comprehend:
"The self-conscious spirit is, however, in its own self the negative, and hence is the opposite of its own essential nature; this is the abyss which sunders its own self and in which it loses its own self, but which at the same time, as the negation of its own self, has equally the opposite significance of being the restoration of itself."
"To read a newspaper is to refrain from reading something worthwhile. The first discipline of education must therefore be to refuse resolutely to feed the mind with canned chatter" - Aleister Crowley.
A newspaper discourse is 'canned chatter'?
Depends which papers you read.
The old man knew MSM was not a freespeech medium back in presumably the 1920’s unless it was his psyops war work
I agree, but Murdoch and Magee were talking about the problems of philosophy, which Plato elaborated thus setting the agenda for philosophical discourse down the centuries - and that is the context in which Aristotle had such an inestimable influence. There is an extent, I think, to which Aristotle could not have had that influence had not Plato first delimited the territory.
Indeed!
She was preeminently insightful about form and Form.
Hmm, Makes me wonder what Iris' view of Alexander Mcall Smiths Novels, the philosophy in the 'Sunday Philosophy Club' series works very well into the novels.
what was this show called?
Someone below talked about Bertrand Russell : I regret my purchases of his books. I keep his History of Western Philosophy by my bedside, but wonder is it's not just within the Readers' Digest mould ... Not that I have any training in philosophy, but I sometimes feel BR is not up to much in his own right. Just a feeling I get ...
@jimbopumbapigsticks Yes, Copleston made that point, we only have Plato's popular works & not his lectures, the opposite is true for Aristotle.
@Anglican08 Given that Cicero called his writing style a "river of gold", I'd say he was probably a great writer.
I'd love to find that couch!
this is lovely.....
flame0430 thank you so much !
I am at an existential crossroad. Should I go deeper into philosophy? What is philosophies end. Structures of meaning, signs and symbols.A map of the subconscious mind. Or is imagination more powerful than knowledge? Should all minds be structured alike or should each individual apprehend the unknown with a mind that's free of dogma and cultural superstition.Maybe humanities lack of knowledge is humanities best attribute. So, should philosophy conceal more than it reveals?
Great.
I personally think that jmonroe64 makes a good point. Most everyday people who have no interest in intellectual pursuits, which accounts for in my opinion, most of the population.. the uneducated or little educated that is, do have difficulty fully grasping philosophical concepts, i know this as I have studied philosophy and my friends consist of University trained academics to working class labourers, all whom I hold in equal esteem but consequently due to their professions, I have very
This is one of the most funniest comments I have ever read. I laughed to hard after reading the comment and watching the video. She really do look like the famous pen and ink picture of Hegel.
Alright. I'll be plain on this one. Bryan Magee **invited** someone for an interview. An invitation, most of the time, and especially in this televised context is a sincere act. And then Iris Murdoch had the idea, possibly Iris Murdoch 's idea, let us play a *game of dialogue* in order to illustrate better the type of thing literature, and especially Theater, looks like. Let us do a practical demonstration of this fact, in order for the viewers to get the point that Literature is important in... education.
game o'dialogue=dialogesthai
Excellent site thanks.
Bangkok Johnny
Oh, you're the connection. I was watching a video on Max von Sydow and then this popped up. Brilliant.
A great voice
What year is this from?
Thanks for sharing. Gtcha
I'm writing a comparative dissertation on Dostoevskii's works and her novels. I don't even have a proper title yet :)
I think i have the biggest crush on iris murdoch....
Source?
Literature influences Philosophy and vice versa. GOSH.
does anyone know what year this is from?
I believe this interview was in 1978.
2:13 Iris begins
Why have I only just seen this.
the Bhagavad Gita for one. And if u read the basics of Vedanta, you.ll see obvious paralells with early greek thinkers, like Heraclitus, Parmenides, and yes, Plato.
True english majorskan rR great educators witt zoo tolerans 4 iii cant aha-upplevelse gotta love Theselius det
who are the writer's he metioned??????
Well anything you like to add about her? Just wiki'd!
I hadn't realised she played Judy Dench.
oh yes,. Dame Irish was great as Judy Dench!
Understanding does bring joy as well as knowledge and knowing how to deal with the world. Philosophy is not a useless mental exercise. Psychology, science, math, as well as theology are in debt to philosophy. Philosophy teaches reason and reason leads to technology and a better life. If you want to discard philosophy, you might as well discard math, language, and politics. I think you have a misunderstanding of what philosophy is.
RATHERer!
literchure
if he didnt have this glasses he would look like Thomas Bernhard
who is the interviewer?
Bryan magee
Hehe, I like that she keeps her coat on.
that's hilarious
The only burden equal to supreme intelligence in a woman is tenderness in a strong man!
The world does not forgive either!
she has voice like Bertrand Russell of is this some special accent?
Intelligent speaking but narrow in a scope of culture which remains throughout unclear literature of all types are literature the questions were not posed well and did little good bi great view expressed here in any case western civilization not know for honesty changes the rules as they like.
Uhhhh...it's the latter.
I heard that Iris loved a quarter pounder though
Hey check out kerou(.)net He's a new cartoonist whos work borders on literature. Theres elements of genius in his work.
I wish it was as funny to me :) But thanks anyway ;)
Is she the daughter of Titanic's 1st officer William McMaster Murdoch? 😅
Actually Aristotle had a much more important impact on modern life than Plato. Apple and microsoft, for instance, stems from Aristotle's divisions and categories. As does genetics. If Aristotle is the IPad, Plato is the Bible. Although I'd rather read Plato.
I get the impression he's trying to promote himself ... Wonder if Iris was fed up .... Anyway, people with extraodinary sur-intelligence like Iris's, can lead all the rest of us by the nose. I always end a IM book feeling I've been lead up the garden path; led to believe I was in for some Dostoevkyan grandeur ... and feeling it's all boils down to Woman's Own. The consolation is in the great descriptions of Nature I suppose.
Anne O'Kelly McGee has written quite a bit on Philosophy two series of Interviews on contemporary philosophers. And has written a book on Schopenhaur, a rather extensive work He wrote a book on what it is to undergo a philosophic training from personal experience, as an ordinary researcher as he also recalled his Oxford days. He is basically, I would say, in British terms, middle to lower class socially. So that, his ascent socially is driven under his own talent rather than social class. He stood for Member of Parliament in Britain, I can't rem. if he won ! He has been rather wide-ranging journalistic way, at the junction of Phil., social issues and education. Early on he wrote, rather daringly, on the social life of lesbians and gays in England. He has written on Wagner. SO THAT... I don't think he is showing off. He is constantly asking his interviewees to explain for the audience what some particular concept or word means. I experience him as brilliant actually. His interviews are immensely informative. Among the best is the interview with W.V. Quine & Naussbaum on Aristotle.To Quine he blasted (sth. to the effect): "the whole world disagrees with you" when quine said there is no such a thing as a mind: only physical (macro.micro) processes. Quine said distinction bt. Phi. and Sci. is superfluous since they are on the same spectrum -- Phil. being at highest level of abstraction. [me thinks: i here Quine merely replaces mind stuff with abstract entities, which of course is no consolation. Personally I don't see Quine as 'having a philosophy', but of having created a vast framework for doing further philosophy, as it were, properly. This may be one and the same as broad perspective of Russell's. BRIAN MCGEE tried to open him up a bit. It was as difficult as making men cry ! In other words, as such, it didn't really happen ! OF COURSE, Iris Murdoch, got her training in Phil. from Wittgenstein, but she left his supervision to befriend Elias Caneti (as one of a flock of women he had around him, quite openly). Murdoch would stay with the Nobel Laureate for a very long time indeed. She learnt her craft from him. Murdoch's philosophical writings are very deep indeed and she found Caneti in the end as intolerable "he is pathetic!" she had decided. I find. Her literary talent enables her to speak philosophy in a unique way. THE 4TH part of the interview, the very last few minutes she talks about her Phil. of Art and of Literature.
Heh, there's more evidence that Greek philosophy influenced Eastern. A not unsubstantial part of the Mahayana Buddhist tradition can be traced to the influence of the Bactrian Greeks.
Philosophy should stop worrying about justifying itself as a discipline and just go on creating new and more useful vocabularies to supplant the old worn out vocabularies.
one said one did one is one self aahhh shit...
its just an opinion, you dont have to like it! but its not fair for you to call people names cause u dnt like what they say.
Who's Irish Murdoch?
lol
Of course great journalism can be literature.Oh really??
The continentals HAD 2 insist the bad romantic poetry they pawn off as philosophizing is not 2 be held to a truth standard b/c of language's 4ever obscuring access 2 any "real" world as cover for not understanding the world. Heidegger can then miss that nazism is bad & Sartre the same w respect to communism. I don't care 2 read the analytics either but inuslting them as behind the curve compared 2 existentialists, phenomenologists, post/structuralists, & decons is ludicrous. Paul de Man anyone?
Aristotle a bad writer . . . what the hell is Magee on about? River of gold, and all that.
sorry button did not work
I could not disagree more with Murdoch: Philosophy is just another literary genre, a creative activity: it redescribes the world in ingenious and inventive ways, but any pretense to "dispense of illusion" presupposes that it has access to some non-human, language independent Truth. Her attitude is Kantian in the sense that she wants philosophy to be more "scientific", but not even science is "scientific" in the way that it pretends to be.
all philosophy a footnote to Plato??
He copied almost ALL HIS STUFF from the East! What HE wrote was a footnote to THAT.
You were there, I guess.
differing conversations with. I don't think he is 'ranting' at all, only merely stating his/her opinion, and whats this all about 'stop' ranting, inplying theyve done it before.. i can see no such evidence, I tihnk that people should be able to express their opinions without being had a go at and called abusive names like 'moron' or 'stubborn' as you cannot divulge a persons personality or complete intent from a little youtube messge...miggerino, i think you should try to act a little more adult
I hated reading her!
Extremely promiscuous woman
Intelligent speaking but narrow in a scope of culture which remains throughout unclear literature of all types are literature the questions were not posed well and did little good bi great view expressed here in any case western civilization not know for honesty changes the rules as they like.