I shared the design office with the binding designer at Tech Nine when the toe caps came out. I engineered the boards and was always arguing how the toe caps were a waste of time and were useless. Especially because the toe caps back then were using too much excess materials, so it added so much more length past the boots. I would show them the way it hung over when the board was tilted over and how it would drag on the ground or could even kick you off your edge when going up a half pipe. They got what I was saying but the buyers wanted that junk and now it's all there is. I kept a stack of the supposed "low end" straps that were made for my bindings and made my own custom ones in the sample room. The other good part of the over the top strap is the lateral movement, bending my knee inwards was easier for grabs. Great topic. Binding companies should really offer both.
Well, once again you make total sense ! The force vector applied to the binding are in line with your logic. Sorry no arguments from me. I ride the Now Drive and I do put the toe strap on the front of my boot on my front foot, but on top of my boot on my back foot to reduce drag on the snow ! ( size 12 Ride Insano, F: +27, B: +9 ) .
The force when toe cap is over the toes does actually pull down and backwards. The diagonal force when positioned over the toes is composed of a horizontal force (towards highback) and perpendicular force (downwards). Therefore, technically it does help to pull boots backwards, however is a small force as it is just a component of the force depending on the angle of the strap. 🙃
This brings me back to uni physics class. Decomposition of force was one of the first lectures. Still, whether or not it actually has any effect is still debatable. The heel strap already pulls you into the binding with more force, so the main benefit of the toe strap is to stop your foot from rotating side to side or up and down. That being said, some of the newer toe caps are amazing. You can hardly even feel them there but you’re still locked in.
Both hold your toes down, both can have compatibility issues with boots. Neither is going to change your riding significantly. To ensure fit, take your boots to the shop when you buy bindings.
I put Rome Aux toe straps on my Drive Pros. I really didn’t like the stock ones at all. They wouldn’t stay on my foot and were too bulky. Rome Aux straps are my favorites. They form to the boot so well and are very low profile. I wear mine 80% over the top of my toes and just a bit over the cap. Your logic does make total sense having it over the toe and especially the leverage on heelsides. I just really love the feel of the Rome straps this way.
I don't totally agree. I am not an expert by any means, but I would imagine that by anchoring the toe strap to the very tip of the boot that it would increase LEVERAGE when trying to get on heel-side. Think of a moving dolly or a lever. I also can't imagine that all the engineers for the various companies would continue forward with a design if it wasn't MORE beneficial than the previous design. I would think that the purpose of the toe cap is to increase leverage, NOT to push the boot to the back of the binding. I will say that I hate when binding straps flail all over the place haha I am on the Ride A-6, and they don't have that annoying feature.
Well.... companies continued for years telling us all about the benefits of rocker for EVERY STYLE OF RIDING.... Ride at some point had a base called 'Sintruded'. Being asked what that was by a team member, the marketing team replied "We made that up! It's just extruded!" (True story!) So don't get me started on what companies may or may not do in regards to product development.... Hahahaha! Otherwise, I can't really follow your point. When pulling up on a cap strap design, the angle of the force does not align with the angle of the strap - hence the strap will naturally try to align with the angle of the force, and there is your energy loss.
I literally couldn't agree more with this. Mine are always slipping off the front of my boot from dragging in the snow while carving, it genuinely drives me crazy. I would say at least 60% of my runs they've slipped off by the time I reach the chairlift. I don't even have a great deal of overhang, they just seem to catch on any patches of variable terrain. You just gave me the push I needed to buy some OTT straps for my bataleon atoms, thanks Lars! P.s. I also had a pair of Drives last season and the floppy straps are indeed more trouble than they're worth. The worst is if the toe strap manages to get underneath the board as you're getting off the lift!
Started riding in 89 and agree with your gripes. Getting the toe caps to fit correctly take forever to get just right on a new set of bindings or boots. Regarding the floppy straps, I've found that pushing the highback down over the straps tends to keep them in place in the lift line. I agree, it's a stupid design that solves a non issue. Thanks for the heads up on the Burton OTB straps!
This! The leverage gain was a game changer for me. It seems subtle, but once I moved back to OTT my carving stepped up a level. One can really feel the difference. Add to that the toe drag issue, and it's just a no brainer. I have almost the same binding setup (Now ODrive, and OTT straps)
Thanks for your good videos. I started to ride in1993. Was a true pleasure to cruize on snow with soft boots. But during years and years i often have a pain on feet particularly on long heelside "traversées". I felt oblige to apply a lot of pression on toe strat and thats squeeze m'y feet. I change several Times boots and bindings and it was Always the same...And last season After 20 years of riding i changed for unions with cap straps , keeping my k2 boots. And no more pain with same control. My opinion is that cap strap apply pressure on the most solid part of the boot ( even for bad boots) so cap strap can compensate a bad boot design or at least a bad boot fitting with toes flyi g in the boot. But fully agree with you regarding the drawbacks particularly on chairlifts.
I've had combos of very stiff boots and lots of forward lean where I couldn't get my heels back in the bindings without the assistance of straps, and the heel strap couldn't reach the ratchet. So in that case, closing the toe strap over the edge of the boot did help seat my boots back far enough to close the heel strap. But in most cases I'd agree with you that the toe strap doesn't need to hold your boots back, just down. That said, no plastic strap will ever transfer force as effectively as steel bails. Plate bindings best bindings! Bring on the boot rants!
I agree with you on this one, each and every time I go carving hard, my back foot's toe ratchet gets clogged with snow because it sticks out and collects snow. So many times I had to hit it hard or free it from conpressed snow to unstrap and get back to the lifts. I hope those OTT straps are still available around
Thanks to you I’m going to try over the toe set up this weekend. I was super into toe caps when they first came out but I’ve found that my back foot toe cap strap often rides up. It’s happened with many different combinations of boots and bindings.
So I don’t remember old toe straps causing pain. But I do remember thinking the original burton toe caps were great cause I didn't feel anything. But man those early caps were terrible. Hmm another thing I'm going to go recheck the fit now, thanks Lars!
Simple and obvious answer. If i put the toe strap forward instead of on the toe, the ratchet drags on the snow or eventually breaks when leaning on the turns ....more noticeable on back foot because more toe drag. I also noticed that when the strap is on the toes, it gives a really better hold of boot, limits the twist of the boot in the binding (most when pushing in backside turns) and by thus gives more accuracy. Strap forward toe fashion is real shit 😅 We are still thinking the same 😊
All good points. For me I started using the toe cap style back in the day mainly because with the strap over my toes, it would squash my toes, as back then I had much softer boots. It was much more comfortable to have them away from my toes and digging into the toe cap.
I love when you rant and present your strong opinions. The question I have is; how long has the industry been using single molded foam outsoles? The cap strap may be helpful in keeping the relatively slippery foam outsole of a lower end boot from slipping forward when turning heel side. Truth be told I am a ski boot fitter by trade and a good thirty percent of my day is spent explaining to people that if you press your calf back against the forward lean of the boot (in this case binding) your toe slips forward, this could defiantly happen in your snowboard bindings if the outsole of the boot doesn't effectively grip the footbed of the binding. personally from a comfort perspective I prefer the cap strap, however I have a smaller than average foot and boot overhang has never been a big concern for me. though I have had snowboard boot fitting customers that did not tolerate pressure on the ends of their toes well in order to prevent the binding from effectively shortening the boot. Secondary question: how do you set up the forward lean of your binding? that may have an impact on your preference.
I'd say when you push against the forward lean of the boot - also on a snowboard boot - the first thing that moves is the foot inside the boot, jamming your toes against the end of the boot. Since almost every foot board on almost every binding is EVA foam, which is soft enough to actually get indentations from the boot's tread, there's always too much friction for the boot to actually slide forward on the foot board - in particular with a properly done up ankle strap. - I ride with quite a bit of forward lean, and I bend my knees. I never get calf bite, which would indicate that I don't bend my knees and push into the highbacks too much, as you suggest. I also don't have any real issue with cap straps - other than more boot drag. I'm just pointing out that I find the design has more weaknesses than strengths.
Man, I love your videos! I believe I have seen most of your binding/boot videos out here. Just a question that keeps up coming for me: What is your take on Burton's Step On in general? Would love to hear your insights! Keep up the great work, you've been truly educating AND entertaining us. Just solid, man 🤙
Thanks for the kind words! Burton Step On is a great alternative and maybe the future will look like something without ankle straps... IMO for that to be great, boots have to improve dramatically! Burton even show us that by offering Step On boots with an integrated ankle strap... Somewhat laughable! Now we have an ankle strap again! My point is: that strap is badly needed! Boots can't be modified well enough (like ski boots can!!!) to create enough ankle hold (not talking heel hold! that's a different thing!) on their own. The other thing is that the mechanism behind the heel is so thick that it creates drag for people like myself - at a higher level of carving ability. And then there's issues with forward lean: can't get all that much of it, because then you can't step in easily anymore.... And then there's highback rotation... non existent or only minimally.... And then there's boot offering: it's getting better with other brands making boots for the system, but it's not enough. Feet are so different.... So my take is that it's great for the majority of snowboarders who don't ride enough to understand, feel and benefit from the differences or features I described above. Truthfully, if snowboarding wasn't such a dumb fashion show with so many labels put on so many things that simply aren't cool enough for something as cool as snowboarding we'd be in a system with a plastic sole or in an actual hardboot where you can do so much more about making a step on system really efficient (see F2 Intec!!!), where you can punch out a shell to truly customize the fit.... etc. It is very easy to make a hardboot flex laterally, if that was desired. Dialling in forward flex is no problem at all! But snowboarding put a label on that and decided we need to be in moonboots that look like oversized sneakers, because otherwise we just look like 'dumb skiers', who we also put a label on.... :-) Yeah.... that was me ranting again! Hahahaha....
I’m riding flow bindings for over a decade now and I absolutely love em. They are nit for everyone since they’re less adjustable but I really like the strap design. They’re also pretty neat for carving since their high back design doesn’t sick out as much as traditional bindings.
Good topic. For me, it's non-negotiable, but I'm just one dude. I have ludicrously wide feet and the whole reason I snowboard instead of ski in the first place is to avoid boot pain. When modern toe straps first came out I was instantly sold. I basically can't overtighten them or even feel them and the response is very good. My biggest problem with toe straps now is when they slide up and turn into OTT straps, which is affected by the exact size and model combination of boot and binding. Toe drag is also a bummer, but I'm willing to run risers or an even wider board before I'd squeeze my feet from the sides with a retro toestrap or run steeper angles.
Thanks for sharing!! Still sounds like a boot problem to me. I can't envision how I would feel pressure along the sides of the toe box in my boots. They're literally plastic... hahaha :-)
I've got Now Drives and I have always hated the toe strap. I've had so many issues with the ladder tips breaking, ratchet freezing, and the boot sliding/popping out of strap entirely. Absolute garbage. I have "upgraded" to some new Jones straps, so let's see how they perform. But you've convinced me to try placing it over the toes. Might need a different ladder without a kink to make that work, but I'm in. Let's go! However! Even though you have convinced me to go back to over the toe (like when I was first starting in snowboarding many years ago), I'm not sure I'm with you on the leverage being better/greater. The whole function of the straps is to keep your boot sole and heel connected firmly to the binding. If you can keep the area under the very tip of the toe securely planted to the binding, then that should be resulting in the maximum amount of leverage. Over the toe and toe cap straps should both be able to achieve this, no? I think most important will be how good your strap is. In the case of the old Now straps, it's obvious over the toe would have secured my toe so much better. But perhaps I could have switched to a different cap that would have held it just as well as your over the toe strap. Regardless, you got me. I should have realized myself that there was another option and not just blindly continuing with what I had. Very clear now just how much longer my boot is with the toe cap on the end, and that my ratchets were freezing up because how much closer to the edge they need to be to connect with the toe cap. Stoked to try over the toe and potentially not break more hardware, and especially not be slowed down on a powder race by frozen ratchets. Cheers Edit: seems I might try to jerry rig that Burton strap on like you have done. My Jones straps definitely will not work.
I can't really complain about anything on the NOW bindings. I find their cap strap works very well in the grand scheme of things. But I just find it unnecessary. And the hinge thing is convenient at surface level - it simply creates another problem for solving one that never bothered me. Good luck!! Thanks for the comment!
You just throw away a 9 year binding adjustment research!!! If its true i was realy tring to solve a problem that didnt exist... fak! it makes sense....... thank you!
I agree with you Lars that NOW never came up with a solid toe strap design. Didn't matter which iteration they never seemed to stay in place when put in the "halfway" position of the two positions you describe. I ended up getting Jones branded (obviously also produced by Now) toe straps which work much better. Also agree that most toe straps are not designed to go on top despite claims by the manufacturers
Some interesting points. I rode with Tommen Bjerknaes in the late 90's in Stryn and he didn't use toe straps at all. said he didn't think they were necessary.
With caps I don’t feel any added support or leverage. Might as well not use a toe strap but with a OTT placed just in front of the ball of my foot I do feel a bit more responsive transferring to my heal
Lots of tweaks to my bindings. Most relevant to this conversation is that I reinstalled the rear toe strap in reverse (left-to-right) to keep the ratchet away from the snow. (It was coming undone on contact with groomers). My toe strap is only a hair line in front of the boot and doesn't bother me. +1 waiting for the boot rant.
Great video! I feel the same about over the toe straps! Can you also share which replacement ladder straps work with the drive binding on toe and also which one for the ankle. This would be greatly appreciated!
All valid points very well put across. I don’t like flappy straps. For the same reasons. I think most riders don’t carve (but wish they could) like you do. I’ve just got some Supermatic’s. But I am 52 and not very flexible so for my one week a year on snow now (😢) I’m hoping they will be just what I need 🤞🏼
The supermatics are great. One thing I messed up was getting a large instead of medium. The sales person who helped should have suggested a smaller size instead. I'm a short guy at 5'4" and the board is big enough for the bindings not to give me drag from toes and heel. But trying to carve heel side the bindings being bulky washes me out. Well I'm assuming it only because toe side I can feel it but heel side I don't get that same feel. Also just sitting down in the snow and seeing it as I lean the heel as far back as possible to see where the bindings are in contact with the snow. One thing you must do is setting up the bindings that you are able to get in and out easily. You'll have to adjust minutely occasionally once on mountain too. I've had issues when I know it's too tight to easily slip in, I won't fully lock in when I think I am. Quite scary the first couple times it happened as I was turning. But once you have the fitting dialed in.. it's so easy to get every time. I've even tried many times getting off the lift, literally step in while gliding and instantly riding already. No stopping, sitting or standing, stepping in, and ratcheting in like regular bindings. Pretty fun. The biggest issue I do have with the bindings is releasing my back foot when ice is trapped in the ratchet system. If it gets packed and ice up, pressing the lever will be hard or not work. I have to do some hops sometimes to loosen the ice. Then you'll be able to release the ratchet but it'll still give you a hard time pressing down. Another issue is if somehow the pivot point (knob) for the upper binding slips past the area it's supposed to sit in, it'll stuck between the ratchet mechanism. When it goes past that you'll have to wrench it out by fully engaging the ratchet and trying to get the knob to slip out. You'll get it if you look at it. I've had it happen twice and I was not happy with that while being on top of the mountain. The two times it happened was due to the high back standing up and the chair lift pushing it down, which forced the pivot point (knob) to drive through the ratcheting. Not concrete but that's my most likely answer. I've had them for one season last year already riding almost 60 days. This season 5 days so far. It was either the supermatics or Burton stepins. I have a Burton board with the channel system and as tight as I can get the bindings stationary they do twist a bit for some reason. My other boards with the traditional 4 screw system work perfectly fine.
Supermatic works very well!! Too bulky behind the heels for me, but the concept may well be the best 'step in' system for softboots regarding ride feel. Much better than Burton StepOn in my humble opinion having tried both.
@@kitjunya I'm not intending to carve hard. I'll be hunting/hiking for pow at every possibility. If not pow then general resort riding and larking around 😁 Yes the Supermatic's are bulky and heavy. But my Ride Warpig and Ride LTD binding are pretty heavy. So I've gone with a KORUA Tranni finder as it's a bit lighter I think. Can't wait to try it all out.
@@mankybrains Thanks for the tips. I've tilted my board onto the heel edge and it gets to maybe 80-85º before the heel cups touch the floor. I think I should be fine. Noted re the pivot knob. I'll try and be careful 🤙🏼
toe caps are for comfort, not for performance. thats why i always ride them, thats why i always liked em. as for a "step in convenience" its also great, not all of us are so clumsy that would stand on the straps all the time :) its not that those problems didnt exist its just that they made some things easier.. on the other hand, there is one BIG problem with all new/expensive burton bindings.. and that is double take buckles (and ladder with teeth on both sides), which is often filled in with fresh snow esp. in low temp and very dry snow.. and then the buckle can jam and you cannot take your boot out. that was a real "fixing a problem that does not exist".
A distant memory from over 20yrs ago, but wasn’t it MFM and Hebbel that were the first to run it. Tech Nine was the first company to offer followed by Burton… I think. My memory has seen better days though
I have some 2009 Union bindings which have a hybrid toe strap. It goes over the top but it also has an additional plastic bit which you can hook over the top front of the toe, but you don't have to. Seems to work quite well and I think I might run these bindings this year. They changed the strap to a toe cap design from 2010.
@@FATFORKS Union has always used a flat strap with an outer "frame" that allows you to push the toe of the boot into the center, so you can run it either way - this was their original design when released in fall 2005, same as your 2009s. They have altered the exact design over the years, but have never used a "formed" cap strap. I really liked the style you're referring to & still have some, but my personal favorite came out in 2014 - the smallest of the styles with the open hole in the middle, which always fit my boots best as a cap strap, but I've been running the same 2014 pair over the top since 2016. The cool thing about their design - especially the original - was even when run like a cap strap at the front of the boot, they were still pulling down instead of at such an angle, so you had good leverage.
@@spenserak Actually I have the '14 Contact with the hole in the toe strap too. I was thinking it was 2010. I also didn't really think of running it over the top but you're right about that because it's flat. I also have a newer Contact Pro with the webbing toe strap but I guess that can also go over the top or maybe just a bit over the toe as it's flexible. Unfortunately my new DC boots barely fit into any of my bindings cos they're so wide at the heel.
Hey Lars - Happy Winter Time!!!! Great rant on toe strap issues - I ride with Flow NX2 Cabon bindings, I love the rear entry and set and forget "Power strap", super for hard carving. I like the "Fusion" design with over the toe versus "hybrid" which is like a toe cap. I did notice that your footbeds are canted outward while my are canted inward - is that your preferred setup? Love the Strada Cheater and Pipeliner 2.0 I got last year off of your reviews - thank you for bringing the Stranda brand to my attention.
I wanna see free body diagrams! (Yeah I’m a physicist). I got my first board in ‘86 so I’m familiar with the OTT, but I’m not going back. You’re absolutely right that it can add to toe drag, pop off, and a lot of them really do suck… but I think it really does help to hold the boot back and take some pressure off the ankle strap and instep. I put Burton Genesis Hammock ankle straps on a lot of my bindings, though the Bataleon Infinity are great too… and the Rome/Bataleon toe straps seem to fit all my boots really well. I really ought to swap those onto some others. Everyone talks about board quivers… but I’ve got binding & boot quivers too. 😂 For bindings: my highbacks are always rotated and I hate canting.
my og burton cartels that suck for a lot of reason.. the toe straps then did it right. soft, two lines over the tip of the toe so one goes on top, one goes in front. ironically still rocking 2013 32 boots in them. setups soft as shit but they had the toe straps dialed 15 years ago
I love my Rome Auxtech toes, BUT, they’re not perfect. You do have to make sure you’re perfectly on the boot. Makes me wanna mount my old Burton Customs.
Ha! But there are some my experimental facts :> I've used FLOW bindings. When I'am at the top of the mountain, before first ride, I'm strapped, and my both feet stick out - equaly - (at front edge). And I ride down again and again. And of course each time only back leg is strap out and strap in, front leg stays untouched. And after the few times, when I'm at the top of the mountain. I strap in my back leg and... ...I see that my front leg - sticks out MORE than a back leg?! :> So I've changed the front strap to "toe cap", so the toe-cap will block front foot from "sliding". It works but, guess what - now I feel the pain in the toes :D The pressure on that toe-strap is that strong :) Also, I don't unstrap toe straps. Because when I put in my leg in to the binding, I use the method that you've showed - toe first, then heel. But I use toe strap to block my toe position :)
Your OTT straps look quite big. Did you get size large, or are they just a bigger strap compared to cap style? I just ordered mediums for my Jones Mercuries with 10.5 Burton Driver X boots. Looking forward to getting back to my toe strap setup from the 90s! Cheers Lars.
I ride Bent Metals, I like them cause they are pretty basic and do the job. I've never tried them OTT, but I could if I wanted, I'll maybe experiment next time I'm up the hill. Not a fan of the hinged strap for the same reasons you point out.
I don't like having to think about how tight I want that many straps so I just do on the toe as tight as I can reasonably get it and the rigid part of the toebox just bears that. If you want to do "on the toe" with a Now binding and have it actually stay, the Jones 3D 2.0 toe strap is a bolt on replacement. IMO the stock NOW strap should be thought of as over the toe only.
i kept braker the ladder strap on my back foot running it over the toes, im pretty sure its from carving and having it dig in the snow. so i go about 80% over the toes now and haven’t broken one since. funny topic everyone seems to have there set ways🤙🏼
don't agree on the toe straps, but I have small feet so the cap style works fine for me. However I totally agree on the floppy strap thing, I hate that. Where did you get the parts to eliminate that?
I’ve always thought they were more comfortable over the toe. To me it’s the same as goggles over or under a helmet. Just personal preference. Riding style would definitely matter as far as drag goes though. Totally agree with the strap hinge. If somebody is having that much trouble with their straps being in the way they should be riding step ins.
You're correct about that Burton model (2004 model year), but Technine released their first production toe cap binding at the same trade shows, the same year (2003), on the MFM pro model. He and many others had been running traditional straps over the front of their boots for a few years prior. It's still super debatable who came up with it first, but some evidence would suggest it was actually flux, which is what I thought I remembered. They didn't have much of a presence in the US at the time, but some info I found - which included patent numbers - suggests they had offered a separate part available for purchase before the other two brands put anything out, called the "toe mask." So effectively, flux may have produced the first cap strap, but B and T9 were the first to release it on a binding. Between the latter two, they couldn't decide who did it first, so they effectively went into a "shared" agreement. At the end of the day it's probably like asking who invented the skateboard - multiple people at the same time, without knowing it.
@@spenserak I remember Flux bindings from 2005 having them. That first gen was not that gode in my opinion. Every time you fall they would move. Or atleste they did for me. No matter how hard i tighten them. probably my boot nose wasn't the right shape. And the strap it self was to small and soft, I still have them. i put atleste 20 weeks in to those bindings they are beat up ,lost buckles and the hook to hold the high back fell of. The foam on the high back to was torn. And the paint flaked to 😅😅
I think that the first time Burton released a capstrap was a limited edition early-release in spring of 2003, and it was a bit of a frankenbinder called the Mission Doom (a name that reappeared a few years later). It had a proto-capstrap that was less articulated than the Mission Greed in 03-04. It was more of a slightly bubble-shaped leather strap. I similarly remember that Technine was maybe exploring the idea prior to Burton, but Burton won the patent game. This could all be conjecture, though. I think a few people were onto the idea, and then it just came down to lawyers. Also, is that @spenserak from the old Burton message boards? If so, great to see you!
@ Haha yep, same Spenser. A handful of us had moved over to easy loungin' while the BMB was dying, but there might only be a couple left. It's a pretty small forum these days. I had the Dooms when the name came back. When I was reading about this earlier, while it did sound like Burton won the patent, the agreement was that T9 was allowed to continue making their version.
Interesting! Another binding "modification" I've thought about for those of us with Jones/Yes/Now bindings is to swap out my right highback for a left one to get more support straight back as I ride posi/posi so I'll get two "front" highback. Is this a crazy idea?
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Cool! I picked up the Mercury and they've got a great curve on the outside of the binding and appears to give great support, but they're really "flat" on the inside. Clearly made to be ridden in a duck stance
@@SuperPhelix everything is made to be ridden in a duck stance! hahaha.... That's my whole point around this topic. The industry literally suggests that posi posi has no right to exist, hahaha....
I ride Salomon District and Drake Radar bindings, with Salomon boots cause my feet are very thin and not many boots fit me well 😅 the Districts are very nice but the heel cup is so tight to the boots that I have to start the toe cap, do that „heel down” motion you show, and then tighten the heel strap otherwise the boot would just slide forward and not „click” into the heel cup. The Radars on the other end are so rigid and gas pedals so steep that I could basically fit and ride into them strapless, but my boots are indeed too soft and if I crank on that toe strap it gets painful so I have to run it as a toe cap (which it does a terrible job at, being a binding from 2012). I will buy new boots this season, looking for something harder since I don’t like to jib much anymore and I just ride powder, splitboard days and want to focus more on carving on the rare days I need to stay on groomers. That being said, I like the feeling of the toe cap more than the classic over the top toe strap, but that may be just cause I switched from skiing to snowboarding in 2011 and almost always had toe-cap-equipped bindings
Using union force classics and run the cap on the toes. But this just may make me wanna switch to using the strap over the toe. Seeing that like it gives better leverage performance on heel. Gonna try it out when im back in the snow, Interesting…
The story I remember is that the burton reps saw a kid on the hill use his toe strap to push his heel back into the binding then flip his toe strap back on top of the toes and crank down. Kid could have made a tone of $$…all he got was some free gear😣😂
Oh, don’t get me started on ott straps! I lost both my big toe nails in one day with them! 😁 I was wearing a pair of burton ions at the time which play much nicer with a toe cap.
@@frozenwastz111 I lost one big toe nail last season while sizing down my boots from NItro to Burton. Now they fit like a glove and total boot size went down significantly. But oh lord, that toes was nasty for some time. Gonna ride these new boots till they fall off. Riding Flow NX 2 Fusion since I hate toe straps
Which isn't about ride function, as he explains - and it's also relying on the toe strap to solve a problem with the boot... You can definitely ride cap straps if you prefer! I'm just saying…
Regarding the heel straps being in the way/getting out of the way, the Arbor straps are so good for this. Instead of being floppy, it's just pre-curved to sit over the side it's attached to. Too bad they have that big heel hoop I've mentioned before. Anyone know if an arbor strap can go on a Union binding? Certainly can't go on a Now style.
Ive disagreed and agreed with you in the past. on this one its a hard agree. Some toestraps give you at lest the option to wear them over the top, but unfortunately i got a pair of burtons not knowing this isnt great for me. My issue is, regardless of boot make and seemingly binding make, the diagonally positioned strap always has the hard buckle land somewhere on top of my pinkie, causing me immense pain and splitting my toenail. Over the top all the way. But I do have a question, this now binding toestrap has been in fact designed to work both across and over the toes, why then did you replace it entirely. Im asking because i was considering now bindings. EDIT: ok the answer to my question was in text form displayed on screen. got it!
I already have over the toes strap from Burton on my bindings. I am buying union atlas binding and if I am not wrong that they market their toe straps can go over the toes by default ? Anyone has expirience with that ?
Mehhh... the binding straps getting out of the way is amazing... they don't miraculously fall in your way, you put the highback down, the straps sit on top of the binding, then once you skate off the lift, you reach down and push the straps out of the way and step in... agree on the toe strap over the toe should not hurt your foot 100% though... get a new boot...
I mean it was likely a money grab when it first came out...like 3D and Channel...buy Burton boots cause thats the ones that fit Burton bindings. Personally I like the new open toe caps on the Burton bindings...i find I can run the heel strap a little looser...If you're a directional carver a lot of your points are valid, but for 95% of us riding duck or 0 in the rear the drag point and the pulling up on the toes point are moot IMO. Binding size, waist width and boot size is a more interesting conversation and something I see beginners mess up a lot...brand new setup and the toes are 1 inch off the toe side cause their board is too small - seems to be common with teenagers and women - perhaps cause they are buying the baord based on weigh suggestion and not looking at waist...?
Thanks. Nice Inputs. I Trigger the next Episode. About Highback lenghrs. Nitro Phantom and the Carver are nice. Burton Genesis & Cartel as well... i believe in Bad g highbacks to get mir Strenght in Heel YTurns. .. unfortunatwly the new Nitro Phantom Models are Crap. I suggest buy a old Phantom or Phantom Carver... It will Take a while Till the Nitro Management is finding Out that saving in Produktion costs might be the wrong way in the Long Term to make more Money. I currently would never buy a new Nitro... Cheers 😊
@ but it was reality and standard of snowboarding in the 90s. Just before Burton - flux did the first capstrap and still they are the best in bizzz my young padavan
@@Shpillah why are you assuming anything about my age? Why does that matter? Is it true that toe cap straps slide up and down more often than not? I think it is. Is it true that the OTT strap I'm using has just about nothing to do with that stitched piece of plastic with EVA foam underneath from your Preston binding, and that Preston/Ride/etc. placed the toe strap way too high on the boot, therefore causing a pressure point? Yeah, I think that is also true. Their ratchets also totally sucked. Should we therefore compare step on bindings to Preston and argue that ratchets just suck, because step on got rid of them all together? No, maybe that would be as silly as your comparison between ancient badly placed toe straps and my alternative with Burton's OTT on a modern, well made boot. So really, I don't understand what you're trying to say or proof. You're clearly not simply expressing an opinion, but fishing for confrontation, which I clearly asked to be avoided. Anyhow, next Sunday, on December 8th, you can buy me a coffee on my tipping platform for my 47th birthday! ;-) Here's the link: www.buymeacoffee.com/justaride
Great subject. Arthur Longo switched to over the toe somewhat recently in the interview below. So even the side hit legend agrees with Lars. 👍 ua-cam.com/users/clipUgkx3AKh9bYNFWcBr7za6FG4RiSfqax1FODq?si=E6o2VVJUOp9WdkIb
I don't think all these listed tech are a big problem. That is your personal and sometimes traumatic experience. 15 years ago I tryed cap strap and felt in love with it. It feels more comfortable, with better boot hold. Yes it is taking some space, but not much. At least for freestyle, freeride and casual cruise it works well.
I shared the design office with the binding designer at Tech Nine when the toe caps came out. I engineered the boards and was always arguing how the toe caps were a waste of time and were useless. Especially because the toe caps back then were using too much excess materials, so it added so much more length past the boots. I would show them the way it hung over when the board was tilted over and how it would drag on the ground or could even kick you off your edge when going up a half pipe. They got what I was saying but the buyers wanted that junk and now it's all there is. I kept a stack of the supposed "low end" straps that were made for my bindings and made my own custom ones in the sample room. The other good part of the over the top strap is the lateral movement, bending my knee inwards was easier for grabs. Great topic. Binding companies should really offer both.
This is gold!! Thank you so much for sharing!!! 🙏🙂👌✌️
Totally looking forward to a boot rant.
Well, once again you make total sense ! The force vector applied to the binding are in line with your logic. Sorry no arguments from me. I ride the Now Drive and I do put the toe strap on the front of my boot on my front foot, but on top of my boot on my back foot to reduce drag on the snow ! ( size 12 Ride Insano, F: +27, B: +9 ) .
I like what Rome did with the toe caps. They don’t flop over and they pull straight up with the extra strapping.
The force when toe cap is over the toes does actually pull down and backwards. The diagonal force when positioned over the toes is composed of a horizontal force (towards highback) and perpendicular force (downwards).
Therefore, technically it does help to pull boots backwards, however is a small force as it is just a component of the force depending on the angle of the strap. 🙃
This brings me back to uni physics class. Decomposition of force was one of the first lectures.
Still, whether or not it actually has any effect is still debatable. The heel strap already pulls you into the binding with more force, so the main benefit of the toe strap is to stop your foot from rotating side to side or up and down.
That being said, some of the newer toe caps are amazing. You can hardly even feel them there but you’re still locked in.
I was thinking the same thing just learnt about the sin and cos stuff
Both hold your toes down, both can have compatibility issues with boots. Neither is going to change your riding significantly. To ensure fit, take your boots to the shop when you buy bindings.
I put Rome Aux toe straps on my Drive Pros. I really didn’t like the stock ones at all. They wouldn’t stay on my foot and were too bulky. Rome Aux straps are my favorites. They form to the boot so well and are very low profile. I wear mine 80% over the top of my toes and just a bit over the cap. Your logic does make total sense having it over the toe and especially the leverage on heelsides. I just really love the feel of the Rome straps this way.
I don't totally agree. I am not an expert by any means, but I would imagine that by anchoring the toe strap to the very tip of the boot that it would increase LEVERAGE when trying to get on heel-side. Think of a moving dolly or a lever. I also can't imagine that all the engineers for the various companies would continue forward with a design if it wasn't MORE beneficial than the previous design. I would think that the purpose of the toe cap is to increase leverage, NOT to push the boot to the back of the binding. I will say that I hate when binding straps flail all over the place haha I am on the Ride A-6, and they don't have that annoying feature.
Well.... companies continued for years telling us all about the benefits of rocker for EVERY STYLE OF RIDING.... Ride at some point had a base called 'Sintruded'. Being asked what that was by a team member, the marketing team replied "We made that up! It's just extruded!" (True story!)
So don't get me started on what companies may or may not do in regards to product development.... Hahahaha! Otherwise, I can't really follow your point. When pulling up on a cap strap design, the angle of the force does not align with the angle of the strap - hence the strap will naturally try to align with the angle of the force, and there is your energy loss.
I literally couldn't agree more with this. Mine are always slipping off the front of my boot from dragging in the snow while carving, it genuinely drives me crazy. I would say at least 60% of my runs they've slipped off by the time I reach the chairlift. I don't even have a great deal of overhang, they just seem to catch on any patches of variable terrain. You just gave me the push I needed to buy some OTT straps for my bataleon atoms, thanks Lars!
P.s. I also had a pair of Drives last season and the floppy straps are indeed more trouble than they're worth. The worst is if the toe strap manages to get underneath the board as you're getting off the lift!
Started riding in 89 and agree with your gripes. Getting the toe caps to fit correctly take forever to get just right on a new set of bindings or boots.
Regarding the floppy straps, I've found that pushing the highback down over the straps tends to keep them in place in the lift line. I agree, it's a stupid design that solves a non issue.
Thanks for the heads up on the Burton OTB straps!
This! The leverage gain was a game changer for me. It seems subtle, but once I moved back to OTT my carving stepped up a level. One can really feel the difference. Add to that the toe drag issue, and it's just a no brainer. I have almost the same binding setup (Now ODrive, and OTT straps)
Great point about the floppy straps when getting off a lift!
Thanks
Awesome! Thank you!!🙏
Thanks for your good videos. I started to ride in1993. Was a true pleasure to cruize on snow with soft boots. But during years and years i often have a pain on feet particularly on long heelside "traversées". I felt oblige to apply a lot of pression on toe strat and thats squeeze m'y feet. I change several Times boots and bindings and it was Always the same...And last season After 20 years of riding i changed for unions with cap straps , keeping my k2 boots. And no more pain with same control. My opinion is that cap strap apply pressure on the most solid part of the boot ( even for bad boots) so cap strap can compensate a bad boot design or at least a bad boot fitting with toes flyi g in the boot. But fully agree with you regarding the drawbacks particularly on chairlifts.
I've had combos of very stiff boots and lots of forward lean where I couldn't get my heels back in the bindings without the assistance of straps, and the heel strap couldn't reach the ratchet. So in that case, closing the toe strap over the edge of the boot did help seat my boots back far enough to close the heel strap. But in most cases I'd agree with you that the toe strap doesn't need to hold your boots back, just down.
That said, no plastic strap will ever transfer force as effectively as steel bails. Plate bindings best bindings! Bring on the boot rants!
I agree with you on this one, each and every time I go carving hard, my back foot's toe ratchet gets clogged with snow because it sticks out and collects snow. So many times I had to hit it hard or free it from conpressed snow to unstrap and get back to the lifts. I hope those OTT straps are still available around
Thanks to you I’m going to try over the toe set up this weekend. I was super into toe caps when they first came out but I’ve found that my back foot toe cap strap often rides up. It’s happened with many different combinations of boots and bindings.
I think you're 100% right on this about the toe cap
So I don’t remember old toe straps causing pain. But I do remember thinking the original burton toe caps were great cause I didn't feel anything. But man those early caps were terrible. Hmm another thing I'm going to go recheck the fit now, thanks Lars!
Old Burton toe caps on the Cartels and P1’s were horrible. They’d come up every time.
Simple and obvious answer. If i put the toe strap forward instead of on the toe, the ratchet drags on the snow or eventually breaks when leaning on the turns ....more noticeable on back foot because more toe drag.
I also noticed that when the strap is on the toes, it gives a really better hold of boot, limits the twist of the boot in the binding (most when pushing in backside turns) and by thus gives more accuracy.
Strap forward toe fashion is real shit 😅
We are still thinking the same 😊
All good points. For me I started using the toe cap style back in the day mainly because with the strap over my toes, it would squash my toes, as back then I had much softer boots. It was much more comfortable to have them away from my toes and digging into the toe cap.
Haha just got to the end when you addressed this :). Yeah these were vans way back in 2001, pretty soft.
I love when you rant and present your strong opinions. The question I have is; how long has the industry been using single molded foam outsoles? The cap strap may be helpful in keeping the relatively slippery foam outsole of a lower end boot from slipping forward when turning heel side. Truth be told I am a ski boot fitter by trade and a good thirty percent of my day is spent explaining to people that if you press your calf back against the forward lean of the boot (in this case binding) your toe slips forward, this could defiantly happen in your snowboard bindings if the outsole of the boot doesn't effectively grip the footbed of the binding. personally from a comfort perspective I prefer the cap strap, however I have a smaller than average foot and boot overhang has never been a big concern for me. though I have had snowboard boot fitting customers that did not tolerate pressure on the ends of their toes well in order to prevent the binding from effectively shortening the boot.
Secondary question: how do you set up the forward lean of your binding? that may have an impact on your preference.
I'd say when you push against the forward lean of the boot - also on a snowboard boot - the first thing that moves is the foot inside the boot, jamming your toes against the end of the boot.
Since almost every foot board on almost every binding is EVA foam, which is soft enough to actually get indentations from the boot's tread, there's always too much friction for the boot to actually slide forward on the foot board - in particular with a properly done up ankle strap.
-
I ride with quite a bit of forward lean, and I bend my knees. I never get calf bite, which would indicate that I don't bend my knees and push into the highbacks too much, as you suggest. I also don't have any real issue with cap straps - other than more boot drag. I'm just pointing out that I find the design has more weaknesses than strengths.
Man, I love your videos! I believe I have seen most of your binding/boot videos out here. Just a question that keeps up coming for me:
What is your take on Burton's Step On in general? Would love to hear your insights!
Keep up the great work, you've been truly educating AND entertaining us. Just solid, man 🤙
Thanks for the kind words!
Burton Step On is a great alternative and maybe the future will look like something without ankle straps... IMO for that to be great, boots have to improve dramatically! Burton even show us that by offering Step On boots with an integrated ankle strap... Somewhat laughable! Now we have an ankle strap again!
My point is: that strap is badly needed! Boots can't be modified well enough (like ski boots can!!!) to create enough ankle hold (not talking heel hold! that's a different thing!) on their own.
The other thing is that the mechanism behind the heel is so thick that it creates drag for people like myself - at a higher level of carving ability. And then there's issues with forward lean: can't get all that much of it, because then you can't step in easily anymore.... And then there's highback rotation... non existent or only minimally.... And then there's boot offering: it's getting better with other brands making boots for the system, but it's not enough. Feet are so different....
So my take is that it's great for the majority of snowboarders who don't ride enough to understand, feel and benefit from the differences or features I described above.
Truthfully, if snowboarding wasn't such a dumb fashion show with so many labels put on so many things that simply aren't cool enough for something as cool as snowboarding we'd be in a system with a plastic sole or in an actual hardboot where you can do so much more about making a step on system really efficient (see F2 Intec!!!), where you can punch out a shell to truly customize the fit.... etc. It is very easy to make a hardboot flex laterally, if that was desired. Dialling in forward flex is no problem at all! But snowboarding put a label on that and decided we need to be in moonboots that look like oversized sneakers, because otherwise we just look like 'dumb skiers', who we also put a label on....
:-)
Yeah.... that was me ranting again! Hahahaha....
I’m riding flow bindings for over a decade now and I absolutely love em. They are nit for everyone since they’re less adjustable but I really like the strap design. They’re also pretty neat for carving since their high back design doesn’t sick out as much as traditional bindings.
They really helped out my feet.
Been interested to try them. They just started making them with a cap though because people said the old ones were too hard to get into
I’m with Lars on this one
Good topic. For me, it's non-negotiable, but I'm just one dude. I have ludicrously wide feet and the whole reason I snowboard instead of ski in the first place is to avoid boot pain. When modern toe straps first came out I was instantly sold. I basically can't overtighten them or even feel them and the response is very good. My biggest problem with toe straps now is when they slide up and turn into OTT straps, which is affected by the exact size and model combination of boot and binding. Toe drag is also a bummer, but I'm willing to run risers or an even wider board before I'd squeeze my feet from the sides with a retro toestrap or run steeper angles.
Thanks for sharing!! Still sounds like a boot problem to me. I can't envision how I would feel pressure along the sides of the toe box in my boots. They're literally plastic... hahaha :-)
I've got Now Drives and I have always hated the toe strap. I've had so many issues with the ladder tips breaking, ratchet freezing, and the boot sliding/popping out of strap entirely. Absolute garbage.
I have "upgraded" to some new Jones straps, so let's see how they perform. But you've convinced me to try placing it over the toes. Might need a different ladder without a kink to make that work, but I'm in. Let's go!
However! Even though you have convinced me to go back to over the toe (like when I was first starting in snowboarding many years ago), I'm not sure I'm with you on the leverage being better/greater. The whole function of the straps is to keep your boot sole and heel connected firmly to the binding. If you can keep the area under the very tip of the toe securely planted to the binding, then that should be resulting in the maximum amount of leverage. Over the toe and toe cap straps should both be able to achieve this, no? I think most important will be how good your strap is. In the case of the old Now straps, it's obvious over the toe would have secured my toe so much better. But perhaps I could have switched to a different cap that would have held it just as well as your over the toe strap.
Regardless, you got me. I should have realized myself that there was another option and not just blindly continuing with what I had. Very clear now just how much longer my boot is with the toe cap on the end, and that my ratchets were freezing up because how much closer to the edge they need to be to connect with the toe cap. Stoked to try over the toe and potentially not break more hardware, and especially not be slowed down on a powder race by frozen ratchets.
Cheers
Edit: seems I might try to jerry rig that Burton strap on like you have done. My Jones straps definitely will not work.
I can't really complain about anything on the NOW bindings. I find their cap strap works very well in the grand scheme of things. But I just find it unnecessary. And the hinge thing is convenient at surface level - it simply creates another problem for solving one that never bothered me. Good luck!! Thanks for the comment!
I also like Ride boots, perhaps the best I've owned so far, though their longevity is comparable to other brands.
Yeah, you're right. All boots break after 80 days.... The last 20 of my season always have something broken on the boot..... Drives me up the wall!! 🙂
You just throw away a 9 year binding adjustment research!!!
If its true i was realy tring to solve a problem that didnt exist...
fak! it makes sense.......
thank you!
I agree with you Lars that NOW never came up with a solid toe strap design. Didn't matter which iteration they never seemed to stay in place when put in the "halfway" position of the two positions you describe. I ended up getting Jones branded (obviously also produced by Now) toe straps which work much better. Also agree that most toe straps are not designed to go on top despite claims by the manufacturers
I Love that snow nerdy thinks.
And I Love my flow Fuse binding for me best strap.
Some interesting points. I rode with Tommen Bjerknaes in the late 90's in Stryn and he didn't use toe straps at all. said he didn't think they were necessary.
With caps I don’t feel any added support or leverage. Might as well not use a toe strap but with a OTT placed just in front of the ball of my foot I do feel a bit more responsive transferring to my heal
Lots of tweaks to my bindings. Most relevant to this conversation is that I reinstalled the rear toe strap in reverse (left-to-right) to keep the ratchet away from the snow. (It was coming undone on contact with groomers). My toe strap is only a hair line in front of the boot and doesn't bother me. +1 waiting for the boot rant.
Agree, i find ott feels more responsive. The floppy straps don’t really bother me, i just kick them out of the way.
Great video! I feel the same about over the toe straps! Can you also share which replacement ladder straps work with the drive binding on toe and also which one for the ankle. This would be greatly appreciated!
I’m using an old version of the OG NOW bindings. Sorry. You’ll have to try… 🤷♂️
Just recently bought my Ride insano, such a Great Boot
All valid points very well put across. I don’t like flappy straps. For the same reasons.
I think most riders don’t carve (but wish they could) like you do.
I’ve just got some Supermatic’s. But I am 52 and not very flexible so for my one week a year on snow now (😢) I’m hoping they will be just what I need 🤞🏼
The supermatics are great. One thing I messed up was getting a large instead of medium. The sales person who helped should have suggested a smaller size instead. I'm a short guy at 5'4" and the board is big enough for the bindings not to give me drag from toes and heel. But trying to carve heel side the bindings being bulky washes me out. Well I'm assuming it only because toe side I can feel it but heel side I don't get that same feel. Also just sitting down in the snow and seeing it as I lean the heel as far back as possible to see where the bindings are in contact with the snow.
One thing you must do is setting up the bindings that you are able to get in and out easily. You'll have to adjust minutely occasionally once on mountain too. I've had issues when I know it's too tight to easily slip in, I won't fully lock in when I think I am. Quite scary the first couple times it happened as I was turning.
But once you have the fitting dialed in.. it's so easy to get every time. I've even tried many times getting off the lift, literally step in while gliding and instantly riding already. No stopping, sitting or standing, stepping in, and ratcheting in like regular bindings. Pretty fun.
The biggest issue I do have with the bindings is releasing my back foot when ice is trapped in the ratchet system. If it gets packed and ice up, pressing the lever will be hard or not work. I have to do some hops sometimes to loosen the ice. Then you'll be able to release the ratchet but it'll still give you a hard time pressing down.
Another issue is if somehow the pivot point (knob) for the upper binding slips past the area it's supposed to sit in, it'll stuck between the ratchet mechanism. When it goes past that you'll have to wrench it out by fully engaging the ratchet and trying to get the knob to slip out. You'll get it if you look at it. I've had it happen twice and I was not happy with that while being on top of the mountain. The two times it happened was due to the high back standing up and the chair lift pushing it down, which forced the pivot point (knob) to drive through the ratcheting. Not concrete but that's my most likely answer.
I've had them for one season last year already riding almost 60 days. This season 5 days so far. It was either the supermatics or Burton stepins. I have a Burton board with the channel system and as tight as I can get the bindings stationary they do twist a bit for some reason. My other boards with the traditional 4 screw system work perfectly fine.
Thanks for the insight. I wanted to try supermatic but not sure where I read it that it has a problem with heel drag when you carve hard.
Supermatic works very well!! Too bulky behind the heels for me, but the concept may well be the best 'step in' system for softboots regarding ride feel. Much better than Burton StepOn in my humble opinion having tried both.
@@kitjunya I'm not intending to carve hard. I'll be hunting/hiking for pow at every possibility. If not pow then general resort riding and larking around 😁 Yes the Supermatic's are bulky and heavy. But my Ride Warpig and Ride LTD binding are pretty heavy. So I've gone with a KORUA Tranni finder as it's a bit lighter I think. Can't wait to try it all out.
@@mankybrains Thanks for the tips. I've tilted my board onto the heel edge and it gets to maybe 80-85º before the heel cups touch the floor. I think I should be fine. Noted re the pivot knob. I'll try and be careful 🤙🏼
toe caps are for comfort, not for performance. thats why i always ride them, thats why i always liked em. as for a "step in convenience" its also great, not all of us are so clumsy that would stand on the straps all the time :) its not that those problems didnt exist its just that they made some things easier..
on the other hand, there is one BIG problem with all new/expensive burton bindings.. and that is double take buckles (and ladder with teeth on both sides), which is often filled in with fresh snow esp. in low temp and very dry snow.. and then the buckle can jam and you cannot take your boot out. that was a real "fixing a problem that does not exist".
A distant memory from over 20yrs ago, but wasn’t it MFM and Hebbel that were the first to run it. Tech Nine was the first company to offer followed by Burton… I think. My memory has seen better days though
You're correct! Only just found out myself.
I have some 2009 Union bindings which have a hybrid toe strap. It goes over the top but it also has an additional plastic bit which you can hook over the top front of the toe, but you don't have to. Seems to work quite well and I think I might run these bindings this year. They changed the strap to a toe cap design from 2010.
@@FATFORKS Union has always used a flat strap with an outer "frame" that allows you to push the toe of the boot into the center, so you can run it either way - this was their original design when released in fall 2005, same as your 2009s. They have altered the exact design over the years, but have never used a "formed" cap strap. I really liked the style you're referring to & still have some, but my personal favorite came out in 2014 - the smallest of the styles with the open hole in the middle, which always fit my boots best as a cap strap, but I've been running the same 2014 pair over the top since 2016.
The cool thing about their design - especially the original - was even when run like a cap strap at the front of the boot, they were still pulling down instead of at such an angle, so you had good leverage.
@@spenserak Actually I have the '14 Contact with the hole in the toe strap too. I was thinking it was 2010. I also didn't really think of running it over the top but you're right about that because it's flat. I also have a newer Contact Pro with the webbing toe strap but I guess that can also go over the top or maybe just a bit over the toe as it's flexible. Unfortunately my new DC boots barely fit into any of my bindings cos they're so wide at the heel.
Dang, which size DC? I've been running the transcend for a couple years now, but I'm a size 9 which always fits in medium.
@@spenserak Size 10 Judges and Size M bindings 😵
Hey Lars - Happy Winter Time!!!! Great rant on toe strap issues - I ride with Flow NX2 Cabon bindings, I love the rear entry and set and forget "Power strap", super for hard carving. I like the "Fusion" design with over the toe versus "hybrid" which is like a toe cap.
I did notice that your footbeds are canted outward while my are canted inward - is that your preferred setup?
Love the Strada Cheater and Pipeliner 2.0 I got last year off of your reviews - thank you for bringing the Stranda brand to my attention.
@@edge2edge417 no canting on my foot beds at all.
I wanna see free body diagrams! (Yeah I’m a physicist). I got my first board in ‘86 so I’m familiar with the OTT, but I’m not going back. You’re absolutely right that it can add to toe drag, pop off, and a lot of them really do suck… but I think it really does help to hold the boot back and take some pressure off the ankle strap and instep.
I put Burton Genesis Hammock ankle straps on a lot of my bindings, though the Bataleon Infinity are great too… and the Rome/Bataleon toe straps seem to fit all my boots really well. I really ought to swap those onto some others.
Everyone talks about board quivers… but I’ve got binding & boot quivers too. 😂
For bindings: my highbacks are always rotated and I hate canting.
my og burton cartels that suck for a lot of reason.. the toe straps then did it right. soft, two lines over the tip of the toe so one goes on top, one goes in front. ironically still rocking 2013 32 boots in them.
setups soft as shit but they had the toe straps dialed 15 years ago
I love my Rome Auxtech toes, BUT, they’re not perfect. You do have to make sure you’re perfectly on the boot.
Makes me wanna mount my old Burton Customs.
Ha! But there are some my experimental facts :>
I've used FLOW bindings. When I'am at the top of the mountain, before first ride, I'm strapped, and my both feet stick out - equaly - (at front edge).
And I ride down again and again. And of course each time only back leg is strap out and strap in, front leg stays untouched.
And after the few times, when I'm at the top of the mountain. I strap in my back leg and...
...I see that my front leg - sticks out MORE than a back leg?! :>
So I've changed the front strap to "toe cap", so the toe-cap will block front foot from "sliding".
It works but, guess what - now I feel the pain in the toes :D The pressure on that toe-strap is that strong :)
Also, I don't unstrap toe straps. Because when I put in my leg in to the binding, I use the method that you've showed - toe first, then heel. But I use toe strap to block my toe position :)
Your OTT straps look quite big. Did you get size large, or are they just a bigger strap compared to cap style? I just ordered mediums for my Jones Mercuries with 10.5 Burton Driver X boots. Looking forward to getting back to my toe strap setup from the 90s! Cheers Lars.
Medium size on mine. You will need the screw from Burton that attaches the Jones ratchet. Different thread size.
Great topic! Still learning since this is my second season. What bindings are these by the way?
NOW Drive Pro 2024
I ride Bent Metals, I like them cause they are pretty basic and do the job. I've never tried them OTT, but I could if I wanted, I'll maybe experiment next time I'm up the hill. Not a fan of the hinged strap for the same reasons you point out.
I don't like having to think about how tight I want that many straps so I just do on the toe as tight as I can reasonably get it and the rigid part of the toebox just bears that. If you want to do "on the toe" with a Now binding and have it actually stay, the Jones 3D 2.0 toe strap is a bolt on replacement. IMO the stock NOW strap should be thought of as over the toe only.
i kept braker the ladder strap on my back foot running it over the toes, im pretty sure its from carving and having it dig in the snow. so i go about 80% over the toes now and haven’t broken one since. funny topic everyone seems to have there set ways🤙🏼
don't agree on the toe straps, but I have small feet so the cap style works fine for me. However I totally agree on the floppy strap thing, I hate that. Where did you get the parts to eliminate that?
@@nickb1966 old NOW binding parts…
My Nitro capital boots got a good strong toe cap which matches perfectly with the toe strap of the Nitro phantom !! It doesn't move at all !!
Awesome!! Nice one!
I’ve always thought they were more comfortable over the toe. To me it’s the same as goggles over or under a helmet. Just personal preference. Riding style would definitely matter as far as drag goes though. Totally agree with the strap hinge. If somebody is having that much trouble with their straps being in the way they should be riding step ins.
@@allanmcvicar goggle over the helmet allow the helmet to move really less...
I had Burton tow straps and they were crap. Always slipping off the toes. I did what you have done and went old school. End of issue.
I ride with Burton Cartel X and Burton Photon boots, toe caps fit perfectly, dunno man
@@user-db6ov7nn4x depends on the boots if they slip or not.
I strongly believe Rome and Bataleon have the best straps on the market, and it’s not even close! 😁
A bit off topic but have you seen the new YES lineup? Curious how their Airmaster XTRM binding compares to the old Now Drive CX.
Same binding.
As far as i remember the first cap strap was from. Burton Mission greed 2003 :)
You're correct about that Burton model (2004 model year), but Technine released their first production toe cap binding at the same trade shows, the same year (2003), on the MFM pro model. He and many others had been running traditional straps over the front of their boots for a few years prior. It's still super debatable who came up with it first, but some evidence would suggest it was actually flux, which is what I thought I remembered. They didn't have much of a presence in the US at the time, but some info I found - which included patent numbers - suggests they had offered a separate part available for purchase before the other two brands put anything out, called the "toe mask." So effectively, flux may have produced the first cap strap, but B and T9 were the first to release it on a binding. Between the latter two, they couldn't decide who did it first, so they effectively went into a "shared" agreement. At the end of the day it's probably like asking who invented the skateboard - multiple people at the same time, without knowing it.
@@spenserak awesome research, Spenser!! Love this!!
@@spenserak I remember Flux bindings from 2005 having them. That first gen was not that gode in my opinion. Every time you fall they would move. Or atleste they did for me. No matter how hard i tighten them. probably my boot nose wasn't the right shape. And the strap it self was to small and soft, I still have them. i put atleste 20 weeks in to those bindings they are beat up ,lost buckles and the hook to hold the high back fell of. The foam on the high back to was torn. And the paint flaked to 😅😅
I think that the first time Burton released a capstrap was a limited edition early-release in spring of 2003, and it was a bit of a frankenbinder called the Mission Doom (a name that reappeared a few years later). It had a proto-capstrap that was less articulated than the Mission Greed in 03-04. It was more of a slightly bubble-shaped leather strap.
I similarly remember that Technine was maybe exploring the idea prior to Burton, but Burton won the patent game. This could all be conjecture, though. I think a few people were onto the idea, and then it just came down to lawyers.
Also, is that @spenserak from the old Burton message boards? If so, great to see you!
@
Haha yep, same Spenser. A handful of us had moved over to easy loungin' while the BMB was dying, but there might only be a couple left. It's a pretty small forum these days.
I had the Dooms when the name came back.
When I was reading about this earlier, while it did sound like Burton won the patent, the agreement was that T9 was allowed to continue making their version.
Good suggestion
Interesting!
Another binding "modification" I've thought about for those of us with Jones/Yes/Now bindings is to swap out my right highback for a left one to get more support straight back as I ride posi/posi so I'll get two "front" highback. Is this a crazy idea?
@@SuperPhelix I’m doing that too. Have done for years. 👍 The new Drive highback doesn’t really need that anymore. Lots of curve.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Cool! I picked up the Mercury and they've got a great curve on the outside of the binding and appears to give great support, but they're really "flat" on the inside. Clearly made to be ridden in a duck stance
@@SuperPhelix everything is made to be ridden in a duck stance! hahaha.... That's my whole point around this topic. The industry literally suggests that posi posi has no right to exist, hahaha....
my thought was that putting it over the toe helps to tilt the board easier on the toe edge turn!?
I have Step Ons so no issues for me
Same! Especially with Ion boots, they tick a lot (maybe all?) of the boxes in this video.
I ride Salomon District and Drake Radar bindings, with Salomon boots cause my feet are very thin and not many boots fit me well 😅 the Districts are very nice but the heel cup is so tight to the boots that I have to start the toe cap, do that „heel down” motion you show, and then tighten the heel strap otherwise the boot would just slide forward and not „click” into the heel cup. The Radars on the other end are so rigid and gas pedals so steep that I could basically fit and ride into them strapless, but my boots are indeed too soft and if I crank on that toe strap it gets painful so I have to run it as a toe cap (which it does a terrible job at, being a binding from 2012). I will buy new boots this season, looking for something harder since I don’t like to jib much anymore and I just ride powder, splitboard days and want to focus more on carving on the rare days I need to stay on groomers. That being said, I like the feeling of the toe cap more than the classic over the top toe strap, but that may be just cause I switched from skiing to snowboarding in 2011 and almost always had toe-cap-equipped bindings
Brilliant 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙏🏻
How don i get the inner strap without the hinge for my Jones mercurey ?
That will be a challenge..... Retailer with old stock is your only chance, I think.
Using union force classics and run the cap on the toes. But this just may make me wanna switch to using the strap over the toe. Seeing that like it gives better leverage performance on heel. Gonna try it out when im back in the snow, Interesting…
Lars are these aftermarket intuition liners? If so where do you buy them
Directly from Intuition. If you're in Fernie, I'll get them for you and fit them, too.
I feel exactly that way about both straps on that great binding...Where can I get the ankle strap ? Burton sells the over the toe strap...
It's the so called Hyperfuse 2 strap. Still in the line with the new YES bindings. Should be able to order as a spare part from YES.
That really helped. Thank you Lars.
completly agree.....
All good points👍
Cheers!! 🙂
The story I remember is that the burton reps saw a kid on the hill use his toe strap to push his heel back into the binding then flip his toe strap back on top of the toes and crank down. Kid could have made a tone of $$…all he got was some free gear😣😂
Hahahahaha......
I dont know if this is worse or better, but i ride the flow, which kinda look like your setup, but its one piece vs 2 pieces
Oh that God forsaken cap strap…. It looked kinda cool unless you realized the kept slipping off
Oh, don’t get me started on ott straps! I lost both my big toe nails in one day with them! 😁
I was wearing a pair of burton ions at the time which play much nicer with a toe cap.
@@frozenwastz111 I lost one big toe nail last season while sizing down my boots from NItro to Burton. Now they fit like a glove and total boot size went down significantly. But oh lord, that toes was nasty for some time. Gonna ride these new boots till they fall off. Riding Flow NX 2 Fusion since I hate toe straps
I have a now select pro and thank god just the ankel strap is hingd. Easy solution is befor the lift, that I rachet it together. 😊
So less convenience now…. Hahahaha 🙂😅
Love your channel but I disagreed this time.. you can really crank down on your toe cup strap without cutting off circulation
Which isn't about ride function, as he explains - and it's also relying on the toe strap to solve a problem with the boot...
You can definitely ride cap straps if you prefer! I'm just saying…
Do the OTT’s attached to The NOW ratchet hardware or did you replace the ratchet hardware as well?
Needs the Burton screw to fit the different thread size.
Regarding the heel straps being in the way/getting out of the way, the Arbor straps are so good for this. Instead of being floppy, it's just pre-curved to sit over the side it's attached to. Too bad they have that big heel hoop I've mentioned before. Anyone know if an arbor strap can go on a Union binding? Certainly can't go on a Now style.
Ive disagreed and agreed with you in the past. on this one its a hard agree. Some toestraps give you at lest the option to wear them over the top, but unfortunately i got a pair of burtons not knowing this isnt great for me. My issue is, regardless of boot make and seemingly binding make, the diagonally positioned strap always has the hard buckle land somewhere on top of my pinkie, causing me immense pain and splitting my toenail. Over the top all the way.
But I do have a question, this now binding toestrap has been in fact designed to work both across and over the toes, why then did you replace it entirely. Im asking because i was considering now bindings.
EDIT: ok the answer to my question was in text form displayed on screen. got it!
The Burton OTT simply has a better fit. But the NOW would have worked on top, for sure.
I already have over the toes strap from Burton on my bindings. I am buying union atlas binding and if I am not wrong that they market their toe straps can go over the toes by default ? Anyone has expirience with that ?
Mehhh... the binding straps getting out of the way is amazing... they don't miraculously fall in your way, you put the highback down, the straps sit on top of the binding, then once you skate off the lift, you reach down and push the straps out of the way and step in... agree on the toe strap over the toe should not hurt your foot 100% though... get a new boot...
Hi. I'm trying to find some info about the burton's ott, but can't really see if they are compatible with other bindings or just burtons?
Can't answer this. They work with NOW/Jone/YES ratchets by simply swapping out the screw that holds the ratchet for the OG Burton screw.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel ok thanks. Appreciate
I mean it was likely a money grab when it first came out...like 3D and Channel...buy Burton boots cause thats the ones that fit Burton bindings. Personally I like the new open toe caps on the Burton bindings...i find I can run the heel strap a little looser...If you're a directional carver a lot of your points are valid, but for 95% of us riding duck or 0 in the rear the drag point and the pulling up on the toes point are moot IMO. Binding size, waist width and boot size is a more interesting conversation and something I see beginners mess up a lot...brand new setup and the toes are 1 inch off the toe side cause their board is too small - seems to be common with teenagers and women - perhaps cause they are buying the baord based on weigh suggestion and not looking at waist...?
Need boot rant please
@AngrySnowboarder Would love to see your comment on this topic!
OTT toe straps are waaay better
Jesus, sometimes when i learn new things, i feel dumb as fuck. Before this lesson i was a believer of the inclined toe strap...
Thanks. Nice Inputs. I Trigger the next Episode. About Highback lenghrs. Nitro Phantom and the Carver are nice. Burton Genesis & Cartel as well... i believe in Bad g highbacks to get mir Strenght in Heel YTurns. .. unfortunatwly the new Nitro Phantom Models are Crap. I suggest buy a old Phantom or Phantom Carver... It will Take a while Till the Nitro Management is finding Out that saving in Produktion costs might be the wrong way in the Long Term to make more Money. I currently would never buy a new Nitro...
Cheers 😊
Terrible Auto Correction :-). I Love my highbacks high & long.. thats my Thing ;-)
I would Love that Nitro Management is finding that Info via your Chanel.. because IT seems they do Not listen to their Team Riders 😂
Well you’re wrong. The idea of the capstrap was better comfort and better frontside contact of the boot.
Has it been achieved?
@ wear 12 US old boots and 30 years old preston bindings and ask again.
@@Shpillah not a fair comparison. Those straps were ridiculous.
@ but it was reality and standard of snowboarding in the 90s. Just before Burton - flux did the first capstrap and still they are the best in bizzz my young padavan
@@Shpillah why are you assuming anything about my age?
Why does that matter?
Is it true that toe cap straps slide up and down more often than not? I think it is. Is it true that the OTT strap I'm using has just about nothing to do with that stitched piece of plastic with EVA foam underneath from your Preston binding, and that Preston/Ride/etc. placed the toe strap way too high on the boot, therefore causing a pressure point? Yeah, I think that is also true. Their ratchets also totally sucked. Should we therefore compare step on bindings to Preston and argue that ratchets just suck, because step on got rid of them all together? No, maybe that would be as silly as your comparison between ancient badly placed toe straps and my alternative with Burton's OTT on a modern, well made boot.
So really, I don't understand what you're trying to say or proof. You're clearly not simply expressing an opinion, but fishing for confrontation, which I clearly asked to be avoided.
Anyhow, next Sunday, on December 8th, you can buy me a coffee on my tipping platform for my 47th birthday! ;-)
Here's the link:
www.buymeacoffee.com/justaride
Great subject. Arthur Longo switched to over the toe somewhat recently in the interview below. So even the side hit legend agrees with Lars. 👍
ua-cam.com/users/clipUgkx3AKh9bYNFWcBr7za6FG4RiSfqax1FODq?si=E6o2VVJUOp9WdkIb
I don't think all these listed tech are a big problem. That is your personal and sometimes traumatic experience.
15 years ago I tryed cap strap and felt in love with it. It feels more comfortable, with better boot hold. Yes it is taking some space, but not much. At least for freestyle, freeride and casual cruise it works well.